Guild Wars 2

From what I have seen written in multiple threads, I think some players have a misunderstanding that should be clarified . EoTM is where they have been testing out their planned changes for wvw, so if you want to see what the future of wvw changes will be, just drop in to EoTM to see what they may or may not have in store for us. This is where they have been doing their trial runs.

“Edge of the Mists serves as a testing ground for the new features that may be introduced to WvW”

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Edge_of_the_Mists

While I think some of the features in EoTM might be fun ( like the scorpion tanks) there are others I am greatly concerned about and would hope they do not push forward with them.

SO what do you think of their proposed changes thus far in EoTM?

Map landscapes that you die from falling more often than dying fighting players?
Chokepoints that prevent map access without taking them making it very difficult for roamers?
Forced server merges where the players do not get to decide what team they are on just increasing the blob?

Those are the ones I am most concerned with and wish they would change before attempting to implement them, as I feel they would be detrimental to the wvw community, and have been proposing alternatives so they can make what they are working on better. I think the way they currently are doing the server merging, that it will cause grave harm to wvw to implement the way it is, and am hoping they are given more options and change this idea before attempting to put it in actual wvw.

I also understand it is difficult to go back to the drawing board once they have invested so much time and money into their current models, so offering ways to modify some of their ideas rather than start completely over is probably better than throwing out all of the work thus far on an issue.

I am actually looking forward to the objectives blocking chokepoints they’ve already mentioned will be in the new WvW map. I’m also aware of the consequences that has for roaming, but let’s be honest – have you ever had trouble getting through the outer keep walls in EotM if you wanted to go through them? All you need is one catapult, which can be built by 1-2 persons relatively quickly.

I do agree with you that EotM has a bit too much hazardous falls, but otherwise I absolutely love the map design. I’m sure you have noticed that you can move through most of the central map in two levels, giving alternate routes for groups who want to avoid detection by enemy forces. The two-tiered keep walls with objectives within the outer walls is also a brilliant mechanic which I’d love to see on the new WvW map.

And the last part is just no-no for “serious” WvW. Fortunately, there is no indication Anet is going to force megaservers on the new WvW map or “old” WvW maps. I wouldn’t worry about it. EotM is the overflow and will remain as such. There is no need for additional overflow maps, although I don’t think people would mind if OS was changed into one.

Sad to say, but I have a more enjoyable and productive experience on EoTM than I do on my own server. And that’s saying something when the waiting room is actually better than the main attraction.

Tom Gore.4035:

I am actually looking forward to the objectives blocking chokepoints they’ve already mentioned will be in the new WvW map. I’m also aware of the consequences that has for roaming, but let’s be honest – have you ever had trouble getting through the outer keep walls in EotM if you wanted to go through them? All you need is one catapult, which can be built by 1-2 persons relatively quickly.

I do agree with you that EotM has a bit too much hazardous falls, but otherwise I absolutely love the map design. I’m sure you have noticed that you can move through most of the central map in two levels, giving alternate routes for groups who want to avoid detection by enemy forces. The two-tiered keep walls with objectives within the outer walls is also a brilliant mechanic which I’d love to see on the new WvW map.

And the last part is just no-no for “serious” WvW. Fortunately, there is no indication Anet is going to force megaservers on the new WvW map or “old” WvW maps. I wouldn’t worry about it. EotM is the overflow and will remain as such. There is no need for additional overflow maps, although I don’t think people would mind if OS was changed into one.

Being able to break through the walls is due to no one defending in EoTM, that is not the case for wvw. You can expect there to be superior trebs, Super acs and sup balis blocking roamers on choke points in actual wvw. Hell in one supply camp as it is here TC had 2 trebs, 4-6 balis and like a dozen ACs.. Lets see roamers get through that. LOL

The issue with how the landscape will be in wvw is that players will actually be fighting there and not just K training there, fearing and knock backs people off treacherous heights in mass instead, as it is we have people that just camp in known spots in wvw knocking people off cliffs to troll them.

In wvw they have scouts, they do not have scouts in EoTM, as it is very little movement goes undetected if players are actually playing the game. In wvw scouts are on Team speak and call the zerg the second they see something coming and they respond accordingly. I do not think this is very well thought out.

Yes, there is an indication they will merg servers :
1) they already have done so with PVE mega server
2) they have been testing out merged servers in EotM already. They have not yet tested any other ideas except this to deal with population issues.

Yes, people would mind if they changed OS into one, OS is constantly que’d as it is due to GvG taking place in there currently.

Edge of the Mists came out a year ago. I don’t think it turned out to be the dynamic idea testing ground it was meant to be. It’s just a stale karma train that (like most WvW ideas) weakens smaller servers.

It is a sad illustration on how much they misunderstood what WvW is.

styx.7294:

Edge of the Mists came out a year ago. I don’t think it turned out to be the dynamic idea testing ground it was meant to be. It’s just a stale karma train that (like most WvW ideas) weakens smaller servers.

It is a sad illustration on how much they misunderstood what WvW is.

Even worse, it very well may be what wvw WILL be, if players do not speak up about these things. From what they have said is coming in HoT, this could be our future. Treacherous heights and chokepoints to access map sound just like EoTM. RIP roamers if that is the case.

lil devils x.6071:

Even worse, it very well may be what wvw WILL be, if players do not speak up about these things.

You must be new on these forums? People have been complaining about WvW balance since the start.. :-)

Tribio.8531:

lil devils x.6071:

Even worse, it very well may be what wvw WILL be, if players do not speak up about these things.

You must be new on these forums? People have been complaining about WvW balance since the start.. :-)

I played GW1, Was part of the surveys they used to create GW2, have had this game since release and started posting in these forums back then, not sure where that would be considered “new”. WvW balance has been an issue since the start because they made too many servers from the start. I have been more vocal in forums recently due to the HoT wvw news being so depressing thus far. * last ditch effort to hopefully talk sense into them before they make everyone I play with quit the game*

lil devils x.6071:

Tribio.8531:

lil devils x.6071:

Even worse, it very well may be what wvw WILL be, if players do not speak up about these things.

You must be new on these forums? People have been complaining about WvW balance since the start.. :-)

I played GW1, Was part of the surveys they used to create GW2, have had this game since release and started posting in these forums back then, not sure where that would be considered “new”. WvW balance has been an issue since the start because they made too many servers from the start. I have been more vocal in forums recently due to the HoT wvw news being so depressing thus far. * last ditch effort to hopefully talk sense into them before they make everyone I play with quit the game*

It’s interesting because most of the players in GW2 are either exclusively PvE, PvP, or WvW. Not many play another game mode unless there’s something of interest or to be had. Apart from Anet forcing people to play through all their content for a legendary, most just stick to their side of the game. All the WvWers I know are pretty fed up with how things are currently and debating whether they should continue to invest more time in a game that is no longer fun for them. And PvE doesn’t hold any allure for them and they’re not PvPers, so lil devils in the same boat I am in.

Alteros.3019:

lil devils x.6071:

Tribio.8531:

lil devils x.6071:

Even worse, it very well may be what wvw WILL be, if players do not speak up about these things.

You must be new on these forums? People have been complaining about WvW balance since the start.. :-)

I played GW1, Was part of the surveys they used to create GW2, have had this game since release and started posting in these forums back then, not sure where that would be considered “new”. WvW balance has been an issue since the start because they made too many servers from the start. I have been more vocal in forums recently due to the HoT wvw news being so depressing thus far. * last ditch effort to hopefully talk sense into them before they make everyone I play with quit the game*

It’s interesting because most of the players in GW2 are either exclusively PvE, PvP, or WvW. Not many play another game mode unless there’s something of interest or to be had. Apart from Anet forcing people to play through all their content for a legendary, most just stick to their side of the game. All the WvWers I know are pretty fed up with how things are currently and debating whether they should continue to invest more time in a game that is no longer fun for them. And PvE doesn’t hold any allure for them and they’re not PvPers, so lil devils in the same boat I am in.

As a wvw player and gw1 player since 2004:
wvw is get most number and best gimmik AOE builds to win atm.
Pvp on gw2 theres alot better pvp games than gw2, gw1 is better to.
Pve is just that bad, and i rather do pve on another game, i just love to see the great artwork this guys have “hat off to the Sir’s and Lady’s @ the Art team.”
I tryed to do the LS story but mobs were hard to kill (i play mace shield mostly) and alot of condis so i had to call a zerker to kill them fast, since i spended most time jump dodge than actually kill it, build divesification on gw2 is a huge potato, and that is what makes other mmo’s fun theres alot of diversification.
EOTM, well theres where players that dont care about pve go to fast lvl or try to, way to many champions and high reward chest just to be there avoid fighthing, i dont see it become the new wvw, Anet said it will change the BL to a more defensive position EOTM castle genra, i just hope wont kill the wvw for most players…

Aeolus.3615:

I tryed to do the LS story but mobs were hard to kill (i play mace shield mostly) and alot of condis so i had to call a zerker to kill them fast, since i spended most time jump dodge than actually kill it, build divesification on gw2 is a huge potato, and that is what makes other mmo’s fun theres alot of diversification.
EOTM, well theres where players that dont care about pve go to fast lvl or try to, way to many champions and high reward chest just to be there avoid fighthing, i dont see it become the new wvw, Anet said it will change the BL to a more defensive position EOTM castle genra, i just hope wont kill the wvw for most players…

Not sure what defense a poorly populated server has against a death blob trying to take their keep. It’ll be much the same as it is now: death blob shows up and knocks on your door with 6 guild catas, 3 sup rams, and if they feel like it, a couple of flash built omega golems for good measure. So much for making defending the new meta against that.

EotM is made to be counter zerg if you have drop off in chocks then a zerg is quickly broken up by ppl dieing off the map unlike other wvw maps where the zerg can simply pick the person up. What happens though is its very loot rich to the point of being a good farm. Now you can counter this with relatively low number BUT this pve group can make a new OF map (i think the main problem with EotM).

So yes this may some what be the future of wvw falling back more to a true RvR or FvF system where these less on what world your coming from but more off of what you chose to fight for.

Any way the main thing that needs to be fixed in EotM is locking out new OF maps with out Qing the first map, to make a “end of match” reward system that rewards a person for doing things and what places there side is, and some more points for holding a keep etc.. over time to add a bit more want to def something in EotM.

At the end of the day WvW is open world pvp and this is about getting fights with any pve related thing as your use (mind you some pve use items are too much for this format) there no need to be fair it just needs to be fun and easy to get into a fight with the other sides.

Alteros.3019:

Aeolus.3615:

I tryed to do the LS story but mobs were hard to kill (i play mace shield mostly) and alot of condis so i had to call a zerker to kill them fast, since i spended most time jump dodge than actually kill it, build divesification on gw2 is a huge potato, and that is what makes other mmo’s fun theres alot of diversification.
EOTM, well theres where players that dont care about pve go to fast lvl or try to, way to many champions and high reward chest just to be there avoid fighthing, i dont see it become the new wvw, Anet said it will change the BL to a more defensive position EOTM castle genra, i just hope wont kill the wvw for most players…

Not sure what defense a poorly populated server has against a death blob trying to take their keep. It’ll be much the same as it is now: death blob shows up and knocks on your door with 6 guild catas, 3 sup rams, and if they feel like it, a couple of flash built omega golems for good measure. So much for making defending the new meta against that.

Indeed if its hard to cap even agains a small gruop, solutions is to bring lots of siege, golems and full staked blob, impossible to beat that, i know that pain….
…Remembering ways to clear siege on walls without much effort, defending is even hard now that i think :\, this is really teh game of abandon and recap for most servers or bring blob to win.

yeah they said eotm was gonna be a testing ground, but they have tested 2 things ever: ppk and no white swords

lil devils x.6071:

From what I have seen written in multiple threads, I think some players have a misunderstanding that should be clarified . EoTM is where they have been testing out their planned changes for wvw, so if you want to see what the future of wvw changes will be, just drop in to EoTM to see what they may or may not have in store for us. This is where they have been doing their trial runs.

“Edge of the Mists serves as a testing ground for the new features that may be introduced to WvW”

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Edge_of_the_Mists

While I think some of the features in EoTM might be fun ( like the scorpion tanks) there are others I am greatly concerned about and would hope they do not push forward with them.

SO what do you think of their proposed changes thus far in EoTM?

Map landscapes that you die from falling more often than dying fighting players?
Chokepoints that prevent map access without taking them making it very difficult for roamers?
Forced server merges where the players do not get to decide what team they are on just increasing the blob?

Those are the ones I am most concerned with and wish they would change before attempting to implement them, as I feel they would be detrimental to the wvw community, and have been proposing alternatives so they can make what they are working on better. I think the way they currently are doing the server merging, that it will cause grave harm to wvw to implement the way it is, and am hoping they are given more options and change this idea before attempting to put it in actual wvw.

I also understand it is difficult to go back to the drawing board once they have invested so much time and money into their current models, so offering ways to modify some of their ideas rather than start completely over is probably better than throwing out all of the work thus far on an issue.

Troll alol alol lol lol… Dude, did you miss the big announcement, HoT? Did you not read the dev responses acknowledging that EtoM was not well recieved by the WvW players? Have you not seen some of the sneek peeks of the new WvW map coming out with HoT which, da Dah! has features similar to ones found on EtoM.

Before you post your DOOM!! do a little bit of digging first. What you are suggesting will absolutely not be happening. Yes, it probably WAS the plan, but that plan failed hard a year ago, it is no longer “the plan”…

insanemaniac.2456:

yeah they said eotm was gonna be a testing ground, but they have tested 2 things ever: ppk and no white swords

i cant qualiffy how much i dont like EOTM but there are excellent ideas there.
This WvW format is just a huge trap Anet is setting to themselves, reason it never worked well.

Tspatula.9086

Troll alol alol lol lol… Dude, did you miss the big announcement, HoT? Did you not read the dev responses acknowledging that EtoM was not well recieved by the WvW players? Have you not seen some of the sneek peeks of the new WvW map coming out with HoT which, da Dah! has features similar to ones found on EtoM.

Before you post your DOOM!! do a little bit of digging first. What you are suggesting will absolutely not be happening. Yes, it probably WAS the plan, but that plan failed hard a year ago, it is no longer “the plan”…

Funny how their failure represents the most amount of fun I have in a WvW like environment. I think their plan at the moment is to very poorly communicate their WvW plan apart from a new map and a vague mechanic that doesn’t really address any of the concerns I’ve read on the forums.

Alteros.3019:

Tspatula.9086

Troll alol alol lol lol… Dude, did you miss the big announcement, HoT? Did you not read the dev responses acknowledging that EtoM was not well recieved by the WvW players? Have you not seen some of the sneek peeks of the new WvW map coming out with HoT which, da Dah! has features similar to ones found on EtoM.

Before you post your DOOM!! do a little bit of digging first. What you are suggesting will absolutely not be happening. Yes, it probably WAS the plan, but that plan failed hard a year ago, it is no longer “the plan”…

Funny how their failure represents the most amount of fun I have in a WvW like environment. I think their plan at the moment is to very poorly communicate their WvW plan apart from a new map and a vague mechanic that doesn’t really address any of the concerns I’ve read on the forums.

Yeah, I think their plan was megaserver for everything. When it was clearly going to fail in WvW their entire vision of the future of it got blown away and now they are reeling still without any plan to address population imbalances. The new map is nice, or I should say, getting a new map is nice, but it doesn’t solve server stacking or timezone coverage issues….

Tspatula.9086:

Alteros.3019:

Tspatula.9086

Troll alol alol lol lol… Dude, did you miss the big announcement, HoT? Did you not read the dev responses acknowledging that EtoM was not well recieved by the WvW players? Have you not seen some of the sneek peeks of the new WvW map coming out with HoT which, da Dah! has features similar to ones found on EtoM.

Before you post your DOOM!! do a little bit of digging first. What you are suggesting will absolutely not be happening. Yes, it probably WAS the plan, but that plan failed hard a year ago, it is no longer “the plan”…

Funny how their failure represents the most amount of fun I have in a WvW like environment. I think their plan at the moment is to very poorly communicate their WvW plan apart from a new map and a vague mechanic that doesn’t really address any of the concerns I’ve read on the forums.

Yeah, I think their plan was megaserver for everything. When it was clearly going to fail in WvW their entire vision of the future of it got blown away and now they are reeling still without any plan to address population imbalances. The new map is nice, or I should say, getting a new map is nice, but it doesn’t solve server stacking or timezone coverage issues….

Getting a new map is nice, as long as it isn’t a map like EoTM, however, from their description thus far, it sounds just like EoTM.

The landscape of EoTM itself and the linear chokepoints are the problem with the EoTM map being used in wvw. It does not allow for any target to be hit at any time from any direction removing the unpredictability that makes wvw more challenging. All it does is force people into bigger blobs and have them siege creep the chokepoints and eliminates roamers effectiveness pretty much entirely. Roamers rely on being able to sneak up on any given target and take it while the other team is occupied, blocking access of the map for them to do so with heavily defended fortifications eliminates the ability for roamers to be able to do that.

The blob can psychically carry more supply to build more siege, the blob will have more players available to build more siege faster, the blob can physically man more siege to fire it at once, and more players available to protect that siege. The blob stacks people into parties that protect one another utilizing guardian stabilities giving them further advtntage when approaching fortifications. That is all that is created with chokepoints in the end.

People focus on how chokepoints can be used against the blob, but they fail to realize the blob can do the exact. same. thing. The blob can do it better because they have more players available to do so, the blob is on team speak communicating their targets and commands. You have to look at how this will be approached from both sides, not just one.

Making entire WvW EoTM would kill it. Servers have built up communities around WvW which just dont work in EoTM. Its too big, its too random. You’d join a TS with 50 people shouting their kitten s off because they are all blue and they are all leading 50 different zergs on the “same” map.

I still dont see any solution to the problem other than to detach WvW from the servers, much like how ESO did it its campaigns. Instead of joining a server when you start the game, you join a faction, have a “home matchup” and can guest matchups of the same color if its full. That would sort of making it like the hotjoin EoTM within WvW, except you would be fighting as a mercenary for another server when your own matchup is full.

Simplifying it down to clicking just one button like EoTM… no… I cant see how one would solve the massive issues with that. Even the above is merely a band aid, it brings other issues.

EOTM would be fine if it was in the map rotation and counted for PPT. The entire reason why it has been reduced to a karma train is because there is simply no reason to win.

Xillllix.3485:

EOTM would be fine if it was in the map rotation and counted for PPT. The entire reason why it has been reduced to a karma train is because there is simply no reason to win.

That isn’t the reason it has been reduced to a K train. Those who are competitive win because they refuse to lose. The reason it was reduced to a ktrain is due to random teams mashed together and the predictable chokepoint mentality is boring. However, most people I know that refuse to go there refuse to go due to the landscape and map itself. If wvwer’s say, " I would rather be set on fire than go to EoTM" there is something wrong there…

Chokepoints take out all of the unpredictability that makes wvw challenging and fun. It is then reduced to go to this chokepoint and fight here, instead of fighting breaking out anywhere at any time.

lil devils x.6071:

Xillllix.3485:

EOTM would be fine if it was in the map rotation and counted for PPT. The entire reason why it has been reduced to a karma train is because there is simply no reason to win.

That isn’t the reason it has been reduced to a K train. Those who are competitive win because they refuse to lose. The reason it was reduced to a ktrain is due to random teams mashed together and the predictable chokepoint mentality is boring. However, most people I know that refuse to go there refuse to go due to the landscape and map itself. If wvwer’s say, " I would rather be set on fire than go to EoTM" there is something wrong there…

Chokepoints take out all of the unpredictability that makes wvw challenging and fun. It is then reduced to go to this chokepoint and fight here, instead of fighting breaking out anywhere at any time.

While I see your points, I really think you significantly underestimate the impact of no PPT added to your server’s score. If there was equal PPT to be had there then the map dynamic would change, people would take it seriously. Of course, that would mean that it wasn’t megaservered. There is absolutely no reason to defend anything there, so it’s just ktrain blob city. It would be fine for roaming because there would be plenty of small groups trying to get to places on the map and by definition megaserver mean full maps all the time, which means more blob zergs…. That map would be really fun if it wasn’t megaserver and counted to PPT.

If EoTM is the future of wvw, wvw has no future.

Personally if the new wvw map is multi level with lots of places to make people fall off cliffs, then people are going to start getting sick of being all the way across the map and feared off cliffs all the time.

Even I will main my necro (I do quite a lot anyway) and roll a fear build, at which point it will be fear wars 2.

Tspatula.9086:

lil devils x.6071:

Xillllix.3485:

EOTM would be fine if it was in the map rotation and counted for PPT. The entire reason why it has been reduced to a karma train is because there is simply no reason to win.

That isn’t the reason it has been reduced to a K train. Those who are competitive win because they refuse to lose. The reason it was reduced to a ktrain is due to random teams mashed together and the predictable chokepoint mentality is boring. However, most people I know that refuse to go there refuse to go due to the landscape and map itself. If wvwer’s say, " I would rather be set on fire than go to EoTM" there is something wrong there…

Chokepoints take out all of the unpredictability that makes wvw challenging and fun. It is then reduced to go to this chokepoint and fight here, instead of fighting breaking out anywhere at any time.

While I see your points, I really think you significantly underestimate the impact of no PPT added to your server’s score. If there was equal PPT to be had there then the map dynamic would change, people would take it seriously. Of course, that would mean that it wasn’t megaservered. There is absolutely no reason to defend anything there, so it’s just ktrain blob city. It would be fine for roaming because there would be plenty of small groups trying to get to places on the map and by definition megaserver mean full maps all the time, which means more blob zergs…. That map would be really fun if it wasn’t megaserver and counted to PPT.

Think about how well that map works when you have a zerg defending the chokepoint. That is the reality of how this works. On my server, for example, they defend everything already. PPT already matters on T1. That will mean RIP roamers.

If EotM is the future of WvW, I don’t want to be a part of that future.

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

If EotM is the future of WvW, I don’t want to be a part of that future.

As it is, I don’t think WvW has much of a future at this rate. It’s a virtual ghost town in the lower servers. Its only a matter of time (if not already) the same population problems begin to really affect the middle tier servers and soon what you’ll be left with is the great blob wars of the upper tiers.

EoTM works pretty well I’d say. The keeps come ready to use so no dropping 5 gold and walking yaks while you wait all day for a waypoint. The supply generates in a more competitive way. The champ NPC’s actually last a few seconds.

As long as they take the good parts and leave out the Mario pitfalls and autocannons it could be pretty good.

The main advantage of EotM over WvW is it’s automatic adaptation to demand.
If 100 want to play, fine there is one instance, if 100’000 want to play fine there are 1000 instances. No queue and no empty maps. If we leave the balance problems aside (that could be easily fixed):
You always find friends and enemies in EotM.

lil devils x.6071:

Being able to break through the walls is due to no one defending in EoTM, that is not the case for wvw. You can expect there to be superior trebs, Super acs and sup balis blocking roamers on choke points in actual wvw. Hell in one supply camp as it is here TC had 2 trebs, 4-6 balis and like a dozen ACs.. Lets see roamers get through that. LOL

The issue with how the landscape will be in wvw is that players will actually be fighting there and not just K training there, fearing and knock backs people off treacherous heights in mass instead, as it is we have people that just camp in known spots in wvw knocking people off cliffs to troll them.

In wvw they have scouts, they do not have scouts in EoTM, as it is very little movement goes undetected if players are actually playing the game. In wvw scouts are on Team speak and call the zerg the second they see something coming and they respond accordingly. I do not think this is very well thought out.

Yes, there is an indication they will merg servers :
1) they already have done so with PVE mega server
2) they have been testing out merged servers in EotM already. They have not yet tested any other ideas except this to deal with population issues.

Yes, people would mind if they changed OS into one, OS is constantly que’d as it is due to GvG taking place in there currently.

We don’t know how wide the walls will be for the “chokepoints”. They might be wide enough that sieging them fully is not a very supply-effective solution. The wider walls might also be unreinforcable (so only the walls around the tower/keep itself can be reinforced). I think you’re jumping the gun here. I’ll reserve judgement to when I can check out the map myself.

I already agreed with you there are too many gaps and cliffs with unlimited drops in EotM. Hopefully the new map will have less. Terrain should still play a part in the strategy, and knockbacks/launches should have a possibility of killing careless players.

Two different approaches around the landscape, with no line of sight between them, still mean twice the amount of scouts needed, which means twice the opportunity to slip through when a realm goes sloppy on the scouting.

Making the new WvW map (or the old ones) a megaserver would completely destroy the WvW scene and I think Anet know that. Let’s pray I’m right and your fears are unfounded.

GvG could still be arranged in OS even if it was turned into a megaserver. In fact, guilds wouldn’t have to worry about not being able to get all their members on the instance as they could just all hop onto one that has space.

I’d like to add that yesterday I again witnessed a commander unwilling to engage the enemy in EotM, which made me sick and go back to “real” WvW.

I restate that there are things in EotM I love, like the objectives within outer walls of the keeps, the multi-level design of the central area, and the multiple small pathways all around that concentrate the action on a small area.

The thing that ruins it is the megaserver system, which puts you playing with complete strangers, sometimes people like the PvD commander I met yesterday. Combined with the fact that there are a lot of lucrative objectives that can be taken by just smashing one wall, cashing in a lot of rewards without fighting a single enemy player, is what makes EotM the karma train it is today.

So assuming that the new WvW map will not be megaserver, and that Anet will try to balance the rewards between capping and defending objectives, I could see the new map being extremely interesting to play on. To the point that I expect massive queues there after launch.

1. Don’t like the falling into an abyss, though it’s not that much worse than falling too far in regular. In regular, though, I can potentially be revived and not have to run back… so segue to …
2. Don’t like having to either get lucky or run forever to find players on my side. Time spent “catching up” seems to me to be worse in EotM than in baseline WvW. Ommv.
3. Like with baseline WvW, match-ups seem to be an issue. If I’m on a server that’s losing in WvW, I’m likely going to be losing on EotM.
4. Rewards… the rewards seem to be hugely better in EotM than in baseline WvW. This ranges from drops to champ bags to karma to badges. I cannot help but wonder what effect this has on participation in baseline WvW, and whether this is an aspect of EotM they are looking to import to WvW.

You get rewards in normal wvw too if you know how to karma train. Just cap EB, then cap all borderlands and cap EB again.

Junkpile.7439:

You get rewards in normal wvw too if you know how to karma train. Just cap EB, then cap all borderlands and cap EB again.

The time spent to go between events and champ kills is significantly lower in EotM. Well, as long as you’re on the train.

Also the “risk” of running into an enemy zerg that stalls or even wipes you is significantly higher in WvW than in EotM, despite the fact there’s lot less room to maneuver around in EotM.

If EotM would be the future of WvW then the PvE’rs can have this bloody game. Us true RvR-players have our sight elsewhere anyway so this is just a stop on the Journey towards out goal, wich exist in another game…

Anet struck WvW on day 1 and it has slowly bin dying ever since

Rave

Ravezaar.4951:

If EotM would be the future of WvW then the PvE’rs can have this bloody game. Us true RvR-players have our sight elsewhere anyway so this is just a stop on the Journey towards out goal, wich exist in another game…

Anet struck WvW on day 1 and it has slowly bin dying ever since

Rave

Are you talking about Camelot Unchained? I wouldn’t place too much trust upon that Messiah. Following it closely myself, but their resources are quite small and I feel they might not be able to pull it through.

The worst part of eotm is that crowdcontrol skills like fear, pulls and knockbacks are overpowered there. Nothing worse than loosing half your zerg to a single necro fear wall.

Well look at the top achievement hunters in EU. They are all Seaferer’s rest now almost. It used to be only 1 SFR 1,5 years ago. Why do they do this? Simple: like the poster above me they need/want, the achievements linked to eotm. And to do those, you need a good karma train. These days, anything BUT Green has good karma trains. SFR is 95% of time Green, so transfer to SFR = win win.

I need those achievement myself, and I like eotm, but Blue has no place in eotm anymore. I joined 8 times yesterday at differnet times, and it all was empty, no commander, just the green cap rush. Only thing i can farm a little is reactors, cause i can solo them, but Ktrain is more efficient, gives more loot, and progresses other achievements.

And this is just one kind of players, that’s rather rares, that changes how Eotm is balanced. Anet needs to make the matches balanced, so that at least blue/red can have decent numbers too.

Also green keep is to strong, position is crazy good, and it’s by far the furthest from all keeps, if you look from mid point, yet when running from green to mid, you loose LESS time then enemy team. The ergonomics of the green border are by far the best.

Tom Gore.4035:

Ravezaar.4951:

If EotM would be the future of WvW then the PvE’rs can have this bloody game. Us true RvR-players have our sight elsewhere anyway so this is just a stop on the Journey towards out goal, wich exist in another game…

Anet struck WvW on day 1 and it has slowly bin dying ever since

Rave

Are you talking about Camelot Unchained? I wouldn’t place too much trust upon that Messiah. Following it closely myself, but their resources are quite small and I feel they might not be able to pull it through.

Lies Mark Jacobs is superman!

This is a joke, but he does actually seem to be a good guy…

lol. EotM is not the future of WvW. ANET would have to have their heads stuck in the ground if they don’t realize that EotM failed from a WvW perspective.

In all fairness, they were hugely successful at a karma train creation.

Most of the complaints of EotM appears to come from players with little to no EotM experience. So why would the dev’s listen to them? I have thousands of WvW hours racked up and certainly hundreds in EotM too. Both can be very enjoyable experiences.

For some, they believe WvW should just be zerg fights on flat terrain where Zerg A runs into Zerg B. For others, they believe WvW should be more dynamic with variable terrain, properties, siege, and event objectives. I believe the dev’s know which is going to sustain the game in the long term. They’ll also give a little something for those who just want to zerg fight.

Coyote.7031:

Tom Gore.4035:

Ravezaar.4951:

If EotM would be the future of WvW then the PvE’rs can have this bloody game. Us true RvR-players have our sight elsewhere anyway so this is just a stop on the Journey towards out goal, wich exist in another game…

Anet struck WvW on day 1 and it has slowly bin dying ever since

Rave

Are you talking about Camelot Unchained? I wouldn’t place too much trust upon that Messiah. Following it closely myself, but their resources are quite small and I feel they might not be able to pull it through.

Lies Mark Jacobs is superman!

This is a joke, but he does actually seem to be a good guy…

Without taking part in discussion of how good/bad any of the members of the development team are, I just think the dev team is too small to pull this off. And by pulling off I mean creating a game that is high enough quality to sustain a big enough playerbase. Them planning to have a subscription certainly won’t help getting a lot of players.

But at least their values and priorities are in the right place. Would be great to see the game succeed and actually being good. I might even sub to it if it’s good.

Tom Gore.4035:

Without taking part in discussion of how good/bad any of the members of the development team are, I just think the dev team is too small to pull this off. And by pulling off I mean creating a game that is high enough quality to sustain a big enough playerbase. Them planning to have a subscription certainly won’t help getting a lot of players.

But at least their values and priorities are in the right place. Would be great to see the game succeed and actually being good. I might even sub to it if it’s good.

This. I honestly don’t follow it that closely, and I wish them the best of luck. But Mark Jacobs often turns up in the massivelyop comment sections to talk about games and the industry. It’s neat to see. He’ll even answer questions and talk with people. And it’s rare you see that. So he seems like a genuinely good guy.

We should talk about EoTM and on topic… umm…. Karma trains yo, they be whack…. is that how the kids talk these days?

DeWolfe.2174:

Most of the complaints of EotM appears to come from players with little to no EotM experience. So why would the dev’s listen to them? I have thousands of WvW hours racked up and certainly hundreds in EotM too. Both can be very enjoyable experiences.

For some, they believe WvW should just be zerg fights on flat terrain where Zerg A runs into Zerg B. For others, they believe WvW should be more dynamic with variable terrain, properties, siege, and event objectives. I believe the dev’s know which is going to sustain the game in the long term. They’ll also give a little something for those who just want to zerg fight.

WvW: open field fights, fighting for objectives, roaming.
EotM: harder NPCs, less places for larger fights, mostly uplevels or karma train people.

It is simple and always has been:
1. Go to WvW for fights or hard core action
2. Go to EotM to level an alt, gain karma, or kill random PUGs if you happen to be in a guild that gets wiped a lot in WvW.

EotM is best place fight for objectives. Normal wvw you don’t really care if enemy cap something, but EotM you care because it’s fun when upscaled can’t cap anything.

Tom Gore.4035:

Ravezaar.4951:

If EotM would be the future of WvW then the PvE’rs can have this bloody game. Us true RvR-players have our sight elsewhere anyway so this is just a stop on the Journey towards out goal, wich exist in another game…

Anet struck WvW on day 1 and it has slowly bin dying ever since

Rave

Are you talking about Camelot Unchained? I wouldn’t place too much trust upon that Messiah. Following it closely myself, but their resources are quite small and I feel they might not be able to pull it through.

Plus Mark Jacobs is running it. And he has said that he intends it to be an old school hard core RvR style game. I have seen his previous ideas of ‘hardcore’ in mmorpgs, and I would want absolutely no part of it. But I can see where it might appeal to a smaller niche of hardcore RvR’ers. I don’t expect CU to be a huge game, but if it does get made, it would probably have a small(in comparison with the larger mmorpgs) following.

Coyote.7031:

Tom Gore.4035:

Ravezaar.4951:

If EotM would be the future of WvW then the PvE’rs can have this bloody game. Us true RvR-players have our sight elsewhere anyway so this is just a stop on the Journey towards out goal, wich exist in another game…

Anet struck WvW on day 1 and it has slowly bin dying ever since

Rave

Are you talking about Camelot Unchained? I wouldn’t place too much trust upon that Messiah. Following it closely myself, but their resources are quite small and I feel they might not be able to pull it through.

Lies Mark Jacobs is superman!

This is a joke, but he does actually seem to be a good guy…

Debatable……I played DaoC when he was running that show. He had his pluses and minuses.

Although he was very smart after EA took over the show with Warhammer……he saw the writing on the wall and took the money and ran as far away as he could……

Tom Gore.4035:

Ravezaar.4951:

If EotM would be the future of WvW then the PvE’rs can have this bloody game. Us true RvR-players have our sight elsewhere anyway so this is just a stop on the Journey towards out goal, wich exist in another game…

Anet struck WvW on day 1 and it has slowly bin dying ever since

Rave

Are you talking about Camelot Unchained? I wouldn’t place too much trust upon that Messiah. Following it closely myself, but their resources are quite small and I feel they might not be able to pull it through.

Yea Camelot unchained and yea Iam a backer, so pretty close to it aswell, mostly ALL the big RvR/WvW Guilds from Gw2,DaoC,WaR have since long left this game and are now in the Alpha stage of CU, so I think its looking pretty darn good tbh. But yea we will see… atm tho Iam only playing Gw2 cause its 1 of only 2 MMO’s currently offering WvW/RvR. Anet long gave up on this if they even had an intrest in RvR at all…

In MJ we believe

I dont know anyone who left for CU pre-alpha.