Guild Wars 2

Why was Red Keep made so weak and indefensible?

Ever since Edge of the Mists was released, I’ve played it quite a bit. I enjoy the map, the simplicity of the objectives, and the versatility of what you can do.

Except when we are the Red Team.

Playing Red is demoralizing and rage quit worthy. One of our best assets, The Workshop, is that Keep’s worst enemy. People don’t go to Workshop to take other towers or keeps (okay, sometimes). It’s used to take Red Keep. Workshop should be renamed to Get-Into-Red-Keep-with-No-Effort.

Just to rub salt in the wound, Red Keep is practically nothing but destructible walls and doors. It’s nigh impossible to hold. No decent choke points that the enemy couldn’t easily circumvent. Holding Red Keep against a determined zerg is a joke.

Green has the numbers.
Blue has an amazingly defensible Keep.
Red is the other two’s play thing.

Did the EotM developers think that giving Red the Workshop that no one would think to use it to take the Keep? It seems like such a massive oversight.

Red is already considered the ‘weak’ team, but to give them such a horrible section is like punishment, discouraging us from playing.

If the walls weren’t destructible i think Arid Fortres would be reasonable… But as it is, yeh, total joke to even try defend it. Just farm some bags with ACs and bail once the walls melt.

Simple fact that each side is designed to have different weakness and strength’s so it gives the players challenges/obsicals to over come to take each side keeps. Same thing with EBG map in reg WvWvW, WvWvW isn’t meant to be fair.

It’s also meant to be easy for an outnumbered red group to take.

I haven’t been playing EotM for as long as most have but I’ve been playing long enough to be on FR and BL side and know that pretty much OG is and will always be the strongest due to their high numbers.

I was on FR side first and our zerg usually consisted of about 10-20 players and that was fine because that’s basically all you need to have to go around claim stuff but not big enough to fight OG on the battleground. Our base was so easy to defend it was funny but then soon got old. Most of us defended it at least once but then realized how boring it was and how it kinda ruined the game.

My second team and the team I’m on now is BL and its truly pathetic. We can hardly get 10 players in a zerg sometimes. We can’t really defend our stuff nor ourselves against OG. Depending on our commander we can often handle FR to a certain extant but that’s about it. When FR defend and OG is our only true threat its basically game over for us. We get smashed non-stop when OG is forced to come to our side since FR is defending a lot.

From my point of view and experience playing EotM -
OG is the over powered (Always from what I’ve seen and from what I’ve heard.) Also OG always has more then 25 players if not always more then 30.
FR a decent size group but do nothing but defend but occasionally zergs around the map.
BL? Doesn’t even exist.

Taking back the other keeps is also easy…take the reactor, throw down a couple rams…might be slower but just as straight-forward.

Badlands is almost always outnumbered (not always with the “buff” though), which seems odd as the same number of servers have access to each side as far as I know. I guess it’s the fact that it’s not only the higher 3rd ranked servers (per tier), but the lower bracket ones too.

The regular WvW maps are a bit more balanced though; Red Keep in EBG is far more defensible than the other two Keeps. Plus, it’s a game, the devs don’t want to make the sides so unfair that it discourages players to actually play the game. But that’s what they’ve done in EotM.

Funny thing is the Edge.
Red means that the servers got last place in previous match up, because of lack of coverage. So naturally in edge we see far less people in red side, but red side has wurm tunnels, that commanders actually can use to travel faster and workshop that is sometimes used to take a tower or outer wall, but that’s rarely… So in theory free siege and faster movement option could help to outmaneuver other bigger zergs and take objectives.

But in really Edge is a place where everyone comes to get lvls or wxp or karma or champ bags. People don’t have proper gear, knowledge of how to play in wvw and lack of commanders that aren’t their only for a tag so people would group up.

But Im really side tracking…
Red keeps problem is the walls(like everyone has already stated), because on other keeps in Edge hasn’t got any destructible walls. Its really easy for any zerg to go workshop keep and destroy the nearest wall with free siege. Even if the workshop wall is sieged and if you see it, take the back entrance, if that is sieged move to another wall.

I get red side is made to be aggressive, but maybe remove some destructible walls so it would take longer from workshop to get to a place with a gate or destructible wall. Hell other Edge keeps have 3 entrances, so maybe remove some destructible walls to make it 3 gates and 3 places where walls can be destroyed, because now I counted 12 destructible walls and 3 gates so that 15 possible entry points.

Red really is a poor side and its keep lord goes down in seconds. When I was commanding green I had the option of fighting blue – and actually getting a fight – or karma training and going red, where I knew there wouldn’t be anyone trying to stop us.

I chose to attack blue, because I wanted an actual battle, but I was keenly aware that I may suddenly face criticism for not going the karma train route.

The colors were not always what they are now.
Red – Overgrowth – almost always outnumbered the ennemies, like it is now for green
Green – frostreach – less than more present, like it is now for blue (in EU, at my playtime)
blue – baldlands – more or less present, like it is now for red (in EU, at my playtime)

I believe it has to do with the buff – take the light, and reach your team unharmed and pretty fast.
Worm’s tunnel offers something like that, but not as convenient,
FR offers no movement buff to reach the team.

Good thing EotM is just a PvE map. Imagine if it actually counted as WvW. It is a great looking map, but the balance is horrible.

Red Keep is the easiest to take, I agree. On the plus side though, it’s also the easiest to take back once you’ve lost it.

red keep has more walls to hit than other keeps . this make it weaker

Reborn.2934:

red keep has more walls to hit than other keeps . this make it weaker

Not only that. There are numerous “safe” passes towards the keep where you cannot absolutely defend with sieges from the keep. That aside I really love FR keep as it is easiest to defend keep with its ice bridges, safe AC/Cata/Treb spots and many escape routes. As far as OG keep it is the easiest to defend. With really few properly placed sieges you can defend it solo against any zerg.