Guild Wars 2

What makes it awesome?

1) Fun: It is genuinely entertaining for a lot of people.
2) Consistent: You know what you are getting when you go there, and you get it every single time.
3) It Works: It is basically bug free and functional.

So many morons on here who are very reasonably dissatisfied with WvW keep making the incredibly unreasonable suggestion that the fix is to wreck/remove something else (EotM).

I know this is a stretch, take slow breaths and follow the simple logic step by step, if you try hard you can do it:

Two things. That are both good. Can both exist in the game. At the same time.
If one sucks. The answer is. Fix the one that sucks.
The answer is not. Make the other one suck too.
This will not fix the problem.

EotM is not the problem, it’s fine, leave it alone and focus on getting what is actually broken fixed. Quit making all these posts trying to get rid of something that plenty of people like and you don’t have to play if you don’t want to, futtbuckers.

#aprilfools

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For me eotm is fine, but the map suck… Really….
So much place where you can die just because you have failed your puzzle jump…

And all those strange thing… kitten I want a real map, not some azzura place.
For sure if the map was better I will probably play more on eotm and leave WvW… At least there is always people online in eotm.

Ok I’ll spell it out…. The thing is, the morons, as u say, like me… who have been loyal to REAL wvw since release who want eotm gone are the ones who played REAL wvw before eotm existed and they know what REAL wvw was like back then. They know eotm started the problems that killed wvw and along with all of the other problems in wvw, eotm is still killing wvw. Eotm killed wvw because ppl went to eotm and stopped going to REAL wvw as they found they could pretty much run around in circles without having to fight others. They could farm loot from Lords and level their noob toons quickly and do it easy. Thats it… simple, ppl are generally lazy, like it easy… soooo running around in circles fighting nobody is much easier than going to REAL wvw. Because of this they nvr really came back. Its not that complicated. If they got rid of eotm some of these eotm ppl might actually decide to try REAL wvw, find they enjoy it and stay. This moron wants eotm gone.

“real” WvW need KT players because if you only take the “core real www players” you have close to no one…. People want fun, loot, reward… If they can have that at any time of the day in eotm, and only this at prime time in “real wvw” then they go to eotm…
And I remember to see so much “real wvw players” telling that the KT players are not “real wvw players”…
We need everyone in WvW, scout, roaming, zerg, and KT to increase the zerg size…

The main issue is that “real wvw” is not rewarding enough… And that the server system make that there is not enough people at off peak time…
The new map with WP closed and the big size make that actually it’s even worse that before…

People who only have 1H to play want to see action and fight, not running after pve or pvd because the map is too big or because there is not enough people on the map.

Lady Sapphirah.6234:

Ok I’ll spell it out…. …
They know eotm started the problems that killed wvw

No, Eotm did not started the problems that lead to the dead of WvW. These problems are inherent to WvW, EotM only provided an alternative, which is now more successful than WvW, even if EotM has it’s own flaws.

Inherent problems of WvW:

• 24/7 coverage war. No one plays 24/7, and even worser player-distribution is very uneven over the 24 hours of the day (or the time-zones of the world if you are a fan of this stupid “your night is someones day” statement), resulting in queue for 2 hours and a handful of people hopping over empty maps for 22 hours.
• PvD scores better than fights (for an objective)

Inherent problem of both EotM and WvW

• imbalance of manpower over the teams
• there is no stacking penalty, which leads to “the map-blob rules”

Inherent problem of EotM

• You are thrown into a random team
• Scoring is without any meaning

I still think that https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/4-Step-Rescue-Plan-for-WvW is a good way to solve most of these problems for both game modes.

Dayra.7405:

Lady Sapphirah.6234:

Ok I’ll spell it out…. …
They know eotm started the problems that killed wvw

No, Eotm did not started the problems that lead to the dead of WvW. These problems are inherent to WvW, EotM only provided an alternative, which is now more successful than WvW, even if EotM has it’s own flaws.

Inherent problems of WvW:

• 24/7 coverage war. No one plays 24/7, and even worser player-distribution is very uneven over the 24 hours of the day (or the time-zones of the world if you are a fan of this stupid “your night is someones day” statement), resulting in queue for 2 hours and a handful of people hopping over empty maps for 22 hours.
• PvD scores better than fights (for an objective)

Inherent problem of both EotM and WvW

• imbalance of manpower over the teams
• there is no stacking penalty, which leads to the map-blob rules

Inherent problem of EotM

• You are thrown into a random team
• Scoring is without any meaning

I still think that https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/4-Step-Rescue-Plan-for-WvW is a good way to solve most of these problems.

EotM is just Where nubs go to KTrain to level their Toons… I would rather have them in there than in WvW since there is limited map space available in match. I hated EotM so much I just credit card crafted all professions to 80 in a few hours.. I have no desire to step foot in PvE or EoTM. The maps / NPC and gimmicks in EotM are atrocious. The problem is they have too many servers open, this happens with all MMORPGs, When the game comes out, it is the " flavor of the week"they have to cut back later when the next flavor of the week comes out, but they did not.

The easiest way to do that, keep players happy and keep it fresh would be to keep the current servers as PVE servers. To play WvW, you have to choose an additional WvW only server( which there are less of). They should reset these every so often forcing everyone to choose again, maybe every 3 months or so. You should ALSO get ONE free WvW transfer every 3 months just in case you get on a server and are unable to play due to queues. They should offer more information on the WvW servers to give better idea of population prior to choosing. ( Their current system showing population is greatly lacking). this prevents matchups from being too stale, getting stuck with dead servers due to having too many servers open and allows for existing communities to stick together and allows for new WvW communities to grow and coordinate as needed.

Players should be able to have players to play with and against any time they come on to play, form lasting comradery with their teammates, not just random mush and if they do not, the game mode is broken. If the enemy has a zerg, you should too. Your “4 steps” are not a rescue plan, they are a kill WvW forever plan.

EotM was meant to be a testing grounds for WvW, not an additional game mode. It should remain that and change as needed to serve the needs of WvW. Let the nubs leveling their Toons test it all they want, however, priority should be given to the needs of WvW, not the other way around.

There IS a stacking penalty in WvW, it is called " queue". ALL servers open should be able to Queue maps or you have too many server in play. Easy as that, no need to add more penalties because if you are in queue, you obviously are being penalized since you can’t even play during the time you have to play. This is resolved by going to a server where you can play.

Now of course that does not solve the problem of teams just being better, in that case of " My team is crap and their team is better" " stacking", all you can do with that is improve how you play or move to a better server if you want your team not to suck. Servers that have all players on voice coms, have all commanders working together, having playersw run the classes and builds that most benefit their server and be willing to change at will and have havoc, roamers and zerg all working together to accomplish their goals are always going to beat the snot out of unorganized mushed up " I want to do what I want to do " groups. Yes, coordinated players like to play with coordinated players and will often be on the same team because they do not want to dumb down their game play putting up with people who just want to do their own thing and not play as a team making them one push material. You shouldn’t expect them to want to play with players who do not have the same play style. You dont cry about it, you leave or work to improve the server. That is just how the game is played. That is ALSO why WvW players want to keep the EotM mess the hell away from them.

RlyOsim.2497:

#aprilfools

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+1

lil devils x.6071:

EotM is just Where nubs go to KTrain to level their Toons…

This statement makes clear that you talk about a completely different thing I do.
You talk about how people use a map/game-mode, and I totally agree with you
that it is very good that people can choose between a “leveling-mode” and a “fighting-mode” and that it is a very bad idea (resulting in a very salt map-chat) to throw them together onto one map.

Whereas I talk about the mechanics of a game mode

• 4hour matches vs 168hour matches.
• always 36 (32 in NA) maps vs demand oriented number of map
• …

This isn’t a perfect match in any case it is just a convention how to use which game mode.

If there would be only WvW, we would be back to the old pre-EotM convention: Karma-Train on EB, guild-fights on the BLs

If there would be only EotM-mode with a choice between EotM-map and BL-Map we would have karma-train on EotM map, guild-fights on the BL-map within EotM-mode.

If would would get eotm-mode with player choosable instances of different map types (eotm-map, Old BLs, new BLs, EB) both can coexist without disturbing each other.

And server-merge isn’t a solution that leads anywhere. I was never in NA, but in EU you can merge all 27 server into 3 without being able to fill all 4 maps of the match in off-time. While just merging the 27 server into 18 would produce queues in primetime, simply because on every EU-server there are 20-times as many player playing 19:00-22:00 (UTC) than there are player playing 3:00-5:00 (UTC).

Dayra.7405:

lil devils x.6071:

EotM is just Where nubs go to KTrain to level their Toons…

This statement makes clear that you talk about a completely different thing I do.
You talk about how people use a map/game-mode, and I totally agree with you
that it is very good that people can choose between a “leveling-mode” and a “fighting-mode” and that it is a very bad idea (resulting in a very salt map-chat) to throw them together onto one map.

Whereas I talk about the mechanics of a game mode

• 4hour matches vs 168hour matches.
• always 36 (32 in NA) maps vs demand oriented number of map
• …

This isn’t a perfect match in any case it is just a convention how to use which game mode.

If there would be only WvW, we would be back to the old pre-EotM convention: Karma-Train on EB, guild-fights on the BLs

If there would be only EotM-mode with a choice between EotM-map and BL-Map we would have karma-train on EotM map, guild-fights on the BL-map.

If would would get eotm-mode with player choosable instances of different map types both can coexixt without disturbing each other.

And server-merge isn’t a solution that leads anywhere. I was never in NA, but in EU you can merge all 27 server into 3 without being able to fill all 4 maps of the match. While just merging the 27 server into 18 would produce queues in primetime, simply because on every server there are 20-times as many player playing 19:00-22:00 (UTC) than there are player playing 3:00-5:00 (UTC).

No, EotM should remain and as a testing ground for WvW as intended, not a separate game mode, but a supporting game mode. As long as everyone fully understand it is just a “test mode” there should not be an issue, since that is all it was intended to be. Maybe that should just be made more clear like every time a player logs in to EotM it lets them know this is just a test mode, so don’t get used to it.

Edge of the Mists serves as a testing ground for the new features that may be introduced to WvW,

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Edge_of_the_Mists

Eotm Should have everything removed that ISN’T going to be used in WvW and just put what they are working on in there. Never should it be treated as another game mode since it is just for testing purposes. Wasting resources on that only further hurts WvW.

You can only merge all servers into a few due to mass evacuation of the game due to poor decisions from developer. Change that and you will change the population of the game. They need to stop thinking of ideas for the game mode to die ( EotM system) and figure out what they are doing wrong that is killing it. They need to go PPK heavy, focus on rewarding players fighting players over objectives without siege and they will solve much of it instead of focusing on carebear PVE Gimmicky crap no one asked for.

You can add more maps in play during busy hours if needed and reduce the maps in play during non busy hours as well as an option to reduce the queue on the servers during peak and not have too much land to cover during non peak hours.

The Ktrain will Die on ALL MAPS if you base the score more on PPK than PPT, give ascended and legendary drops for fighting players over objectives without use of siege, slightly more for the defending team than the attacking team and give no loot, XP or PPK for not fighting over objectives or using siege damage on players. Solve the actual problems, not make more. The K train will cease to exist if done properly.

Players will defend if they get the most loot, xp and PPK from doing so so no more K train at that point.

Fixed number of maps is an inherent design-mistake of WvW.

Fix that and WvW would feel alive, do not fix it and it stays dead.

Do you really want EotM as test ground for WvW? I think it would be horrible to let EotM people test and accept/reject what should go into WvW

lil devils x.6071:

The Ktrain will Die on ALL MAPS if you base the score more on PPK than PPT,

No, it doesn’t care about scoring. It will die if you remove rewards (Karma) from capturing as it’s the Ktrain and not the PPTtrain

Dayra.7405:

Fixed number of maps is an inherent design-mistake of WvW.

Fix that and WvW would feel alive, do not fix it and it stays dead.

Do you really want EotM as test ground for WvW? I would think it’s horrible to let EotM people decide what should go into WvW

EotM people should not decide what is going in to WvW, they need to Email survey actual WvW players before even trying it out in EotM the same way Anet surveyed us to create this game in the first place. If the WvW players like what they did they tell them, if they do not they tell them and they remove those elements from the testing grounds. That is how test maps are supposed to work. Have you ever alpha tested games? That is what EotM should be.

The problem is they got away from their roots, they need to go back to the surveys, and this time make sure they ONLY survey actual WvW players to find out what they want before they even start to work on it.

Dayra.7405:

Fixed number of maps is an inherent design-mistake of WvW.

Fix that and WvW would feel alive, do not fix it and it stays dead.

Do you really want EotM as test ground for WvW? I would think it’s horrible to let EotM people test and accept/reject what should go into WvW

I absolutely want a place for devs to test out their bad ideas before implementing them in WvW. If they were actually performing tests there I would go play it and give them feedback. I know a lot of my friends would as well. If they had done this pre HoT we might not be stuck with the stupid banners, airship, and all the other crap.

Dayra.7405:

Fixed number of maps is an inherent design-mistake of WvW.

Fix that and WvW would feel alive, do not fix it and it stays dead.

Do you really want EotM as test ground for WvW? I think it would be horrible to let EotM people test and accept/reject what should go into WvW

lil devils x.6071:

The Ktrain will Die on ALL MAPS if you base the score more on PPK than PPT,

No, it doesn’t care about scoring. It will die if you remove rewards (Karma) from capturing as it’s the Ktrain and not the PPTtrain

You cut off the rest of the sentence. You get MORE LOOT, XP AND PPK for defending is what kills the K train. Some K train just to win mind you, this covers all the bases.

lil devils x.6071:

If the WvW players like what they did they tell them, if they do not they tell them and they remove those elements from the testing grounds.

Hm. If you ask 10 WvW-player what they want you get 15 incompatible opinions, including such stupid – but very popular 3 years ago – requests like new BLs with longer walk-ways. If you use EotM as the test-ground for 4hour matches with dynamic number of maps, then it’s time that this makes it into WvW. The voting is quite clear: EotM is played, WvW is dead.

Dayra.7405:

lil devils x.6071:

If the WvW players like what they did they tell them, if they do not they tell them and they remove those elements from the testing grounds.

Hm. If you ask 10 WvW-player what they want you get 15 incompatible opinions. If you use EotM as the test-ground for 4hour matches with dynamic number of maps, then it’s time that this makes it into WvW. The voting is quite clear: EotM is played, WvW is dead.

WvW only died due to bad decisions by the developers. They actually killed it ( and that was actually with mechanics they did test in EotM under different skins that players said they hated and the devs didn’t listen). Fix that and you solve the problem. EotM isn’t actually doing great, it is merging many servers to create a faux feeling of a populated game mode. The problem is when they survey non WvW players to give WvW feedback. They should not do that until after they created the content from actual WvW players alone.

Actually, they had multiple choice and write in answers in the numerous surveys they sent out and that is what they used to create GW2, THAT is why WvW exists at all. It worked quite well and why many liked vanilla WvW b4 they stopped the surveys and started to go downhill with it. Players ASKED for large scale PVP. They should have stayed on track with the surveys and listened to what the players had to say and they would not be having this problem right now.

You do realize they put the most popular answers and the ones they were considering using into multiple choice options on the next survey don’t you to see what the majority actually wanted? That is how you do it right…

(FYI we had queues on all maps multiple time zones on my server prior to HOT without a server merge.) Good grief we had a 60 queue for EBG at 4 am..

“voting”, what voting? EotM was no where near as populated as WvW, it is just a mash up of all the servers since they had too many. Sure, if you are on a dead server it felt that way, but that is far from reality.

HOT killed WvW using mechanics that were tested in EotM while they ignored WvW player feedback on them. You cannot gauge the population from that LOL>

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Your-top-5-priorities-for-WvW-Overhaul
has 750 replies that’s not even enough to fill 1 server, not talking about 51 and I am very confident that a lot of the prio’s would surely kill any WvW remainings

the voting about old-new BLs had 350 replies, thats not even enought to fill the maps for 1 hour.

You also forget: the population decrease of WVW over the long period of no change and all the forum posts about the staleness of WvW.

Dayra.7405:

lil devils x.6071:

If the WvW players like what they did they tell them, if they do not they tell them and they remove those elements from the testing grounds.

Hm. If you ask 10 WvW-player what they want you get 15 incompatible opinions, including such stupid – but very popular 3 years ago – requests like new BLs with longer walk-ways. If you use EotM as the test-ground for 4hour matches with dynamic number of maps, then it’s time that this makes it into WvW. The voting is quite clear: EotM is played, WvW is dead.

During the last match-up we went into EotM several times during prime time. We found each time only 1 map that was played by at least 2 sides (we were red). After wiping the opposite zergs one or two times the enemy logged out.
All other maps were played by only one colour.

Aezyr.5304:

Dayra.7405:

lil devils x.6071:

If the WvW players like what they did they tell them, if they do not they tell them and they remove those elements from the testing grounds.

Hm. If you ask 10 WvW-player what they want you get 15 incompatible opinions, including such stupid – but very popular 3 years ago – requests like new BLs with longer walk-ways. If you use EotM as the test-ground for 4hour matches with dynamic number of maps, then it’s time that this makes it into WvW. The voting is quite clear: EotM is played, WvW is dead.

During the last match-up we went into EotM several times during prime time. We found each time only 1 map that was played by at least 2 sides (we were red). After wiping the opposite zergs one or two times the enemy logged out.
All other maps were played by only one colour.

Would be much better if you could tell your favoured opponents to join you on a specific map-instance, wouldn’t it??

Dayra.7405:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Your-top-5-priorities-for-WvW-Overhaul
has 750 replies that’s not even enough to fill 1 server, not talking about 51 and I am very confident that a lot of the prio’s would surely kill any WvW remainings

the voting about old-new BLs had 350 replies, thats not even enought to fill the maps for 1 hour.

You also forget: the population decrease of WVW over the long period of no change and all the forum posts about the staleness of WvW.

The majority of WVW players do not use forums AT ALL. EMAIL SURVEYS is how they used to do it. They should email past and present WvW players, and not the nubs coming in to do dailies because WvW is just another rock for them to mine and they could care less what map it is on.

The decline over time was due to them ignoring the WvW players and stopping the surveys, like I stated, that was not forgotten, that w as directly addressed above. Did you ever participate in their surveys to understand how this worked before? We used to get them all the time then .. nothing.. until after the HOT came out and they realized it was a messed up bad. LOL

Dayra.7405:

Aezyr.5304:

Dayra.7405:

lil devils x.6071:

If the WvW players like what they did they tell them, if they do not they tell them and they remove those elements from the testing grounds.

Hm. If you ask 10 WvW-player what they want you get 15 incompatible opinions, including such stupid – but very popular 3 years ago – requests like new BLs with longer walk-ways. If you use EotM as the test-ground for 4hour matches with dynamic number of maps, then it’s time that this makes it into WvW. The voting is quite clear: EotM is played, WvW is dead.

During the last match-up we went into EotM several times during prime time. We found each time only 1 map that was played by at least 2 sides (we were red). After wiping the opposite zergs one or two times the enemy logged out.
All other maps were played by only one colour.

Would be much better if you could tell your favoured opponents to join you on a specific map-instance, wouldn’t it??

They do this already, have done it for years. However it would be much easier to have a large scale GvG arena ( and not a claustrophobic tiny guild hall arena) than have to pay to hop servers all the time or just make accounts on all servers like many wvw player s already did…

If you were heavily involved in the WvW community, you would already know how this works for guilds lining up to fight or creating new alliances and server hopping. Most vets know the commanders on most servers and everyone talks daily…

NA-T1 seems to be very different from the rest of WvW. WvW was dead long before HoT. I stopped taking it serious (still used it to play a bit GvG from time to time) during season 2. To me it just appears as the dead of WvW that was obvious to most server long before HoT, reached NA-T1 when HoT came out.

Dayra.7405:

Aezyr.5304:

Dayra.7405:

lil devils x.6071:

If the WvW players like what they did they tell them, if they do not they tell them and they remove those elements from the testing grounds.

Hm. If you ask 10 WvW-player what they want you get 15 incompatible opinions, including such stupid – but very popular 3 years ago – requests like new BLs with longer walk-ways. If you use EotM as the test-ground for 4hour matches with dynamic number of maps, then it’s time that this makes it into WvW. The voting is quite clear: EotM is played, WvW is dead.

During the last match-up we went into EotM several times during prime time. We found each time only 1 map that was played by at least 2 sides (we were red). After wiping the opposite zergs one or two times the enemy logged out.
All other maps were played by only one colour.

Would be much better if you could tell your favoured opponents to join you on a specific map-instance, wouldn’t it??

My point was it was empty and not played like you think it is played.

Edit: I think there is a big difference between EU and US EotM and we can’t compare each other.

Dayra.7405:

NA-T1 seems to be very different from the rest of WvW. WvW was dead long before HoT. I stopped taking it serious (still used it to play a bit GvG from time to time) during season 2. To me it just appears as the dead of WvW that was obvious to most server long before HoT, reached NA-T1 when HoT came out.

I didn’t start out on NA T1, I have played MANY servers, ALL tiers both EU and NA and still have many friends all over the place. The game was always bleeding out the top after they stopped listening, the problem is they would NOT. STOP. BREAKING. IT.

They had this idea that PvE Was needed in WvW and they just kept going taking away from the PvP game play and increasing the PVE nonsense. They refused to just treat it like a large scale PvP game mode is what caused it. They focused more on NPC gimmicks and siege damage and diminishing Player skill and contribution. If they had , from the beginning, stayed on course and treated it as a self supporting Action packed large scale PvP game mode separate from PVE in mechanics and stats ect, this would have never happened. They refused, now we have this mess they have to take back to it’s roots and start over to get back on track again or it is dead.

The thing with HOT was players still had hope it would turn around before that, the HOT killed all hope. Everyone believed in Anet in the beginning. They remember how they got started , when they walked out on Blizzard taking " one for the team" because they thought players deserved better. That is the only reason so many stood by them as long as they have trying to hold on hope they can turn this around. They didn’t though, they went so far in the opposite direction of what players wanted, players accepted they went past the point of no return and the game was dead to them.

Aezyr.5304:

My point was it was empty and not played like you think it is played.

I don’t care how it is played (team balance was always horrible in EotM and karma-train bores me to dead), but how it could be played, if auto-assigment to a map-instance is replaced by player can make an informed choice about the map-instance to join and merged with WvW.

Aezyr.5304:

Edit: I think there is a big difference between EU and US EotM and we can’t compare each other.

I am EU, too, on your blue opponent of this week to be precise, but as said in
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Will-the-return-of-Alpine-BL-bring-you-back

Dayra.7405:

No, the map is quite irrelevant.

I want competitive matches that involve fights for victory, neither just a pvd-race nor fights for nothing (scrims).

I wasn’t in WvW nor in EotM for a while.

EotM is fine, if people enjoy that, allow them to enjoy it, I just think that it should not reward WvW Exp or Give Badges, unless from PvP drops.

@Dayra: the map is relevant. It decides how well the game play of roamers, zergs and scouts is.
Frankly speaking, we lost on our server a fair bunch of our scouts, the roamers roaming now on EB and our public coms tagging up mostly on EB.
My experience on EotM is this map is mostly used for k-training. There are exceptions of course. It is one-sided (SFR colour) and has terrible mechnics.

EotM has surpassed WvW, real or not. It’s a solid game mode that keeps players engaged and playing. Which, I might add requires no additional development to run. So, the last time I checked that’s exactly what a game developer dreams of creating. A self sustaining game mode that requires little input and minimal overhead.

EotM stays as is.

EotM is what started the K-train attitude that spread to WvW. I wish they would remove that and the WvW jumping puzzle (Obsidian Sanctum) as they are both a waste of resources that could be used to actually improve WvW.

There are lots of people in it because they find it worth their time to be there, and plenty enjoy it.

“People like eotm better than wvw, we should remove eotm so they have nowhere else to go but wvw, that way maps will be full and wvw will work.”

No, people will just quit the game, worst reasoning in a game setting ever.

You’re all trying to get rid of symptoms and ignoring the cause, which will never work:

The problem is wvw sucks because Anet ruined it. Ruining or removing other parts of the game will not fix anything. This is so blindingly obvious it’s honestly stunning that people keep suggesting it. This is a game, people have a choice to play this game or another, you think removing things they enjoy doing will “force” them into the mode you want? It won’t, they will just find a better game.

Edit: And if you honestly have such great disdain for the people who are in eotm, why not group up go there and kill them? That is one way you yourself could take action and make people stop going to EotM. In fact, this is what REAL wvw people should do, make an organized effort to shut down EotM on your own. I know myself and plenty of others who go to EotM just for fighting/ganking/etc. would be happy with that

DeWolfe.2174:

EotM has surpassed WvW, real or not. It’s a solid game mode that keeps players engaged and playing. Which, I might add requires no additional development to run. So, the last time I checked that’s exactly what a game developer dreams of creating. A self sustaining game mode that requires little input and minimal overhead.

EotM stays as is.

a.k.a. JQ’s (not winning the match this week) safe room

Dusty Moon.4382:

EotM is what started the K-train attitude that spread to WvW. I wish they would remove that and the WvW jumping puzzle (Obsidian Sanctum) as they are both a waste of resources that could be used to actually improve WvW.

the “K-train” was in wvw before EotM got introduced and what kind of resources is OS wasting? It’s an area used by guilds and roamers and there are people that like to do this kind of competitive jumping puzzles.

STIHL.2489:

EotM is fine, if people enjoy that, allow them to enjoy it, I just think that it should not reward WvW Exp or Give Badges, unless from PvP drops.

Agreed, eotm is a farm nothing more and a way to level your toon to 80, at least in the past you could speed to 80.

I seem to remember in the good ole days seeing a high wvw rank like diamond and thinking “man that guy must be really good”, even put a little fear into me when roaming fighting them 1v1. Now, I run into a few roaming and blow them to pieces and I’m not that great of a player, the eotm farm ruined a lot of things but for the most part it’s insta-gratification like the little kiddies want today. I just think anet is catering to them.

Bring back the days of Nintendo 8 bit. I want Ninja Gaiden difficulty baby! Turned us into freaking gaming tigers back then! I’ll let the AVGN teach you anet!

The original idea behind EoTM was to provide a place for WvW’ers to go to play while waiting in queues. Those of us that were around for the beginning days of wvw remember how large the queues were back then, they could go on for hours, every map, every day, on reset nights maps would be queued until 6am saturday mornings. That is how amazingly active wvw was back then, it was beautiful.

But for some reason, anet decided they would simply neglect the playerbase and wvw as a gamemode. There was a breakdown in communication, updates, fixes, essentially wvw got screwed over and over. Anet also decided that instead of actually using wvw maps and asking for feedback from the wvw player base, they would use EoTM as a testing grounds for new features that might some day be implemented into wvw. As the neglect of wvw took its toll, many players became rightfully bitter, many stopped playing, or started playing less, many simply quit or took really long breaks, thus the population of wvw kept shrinking and shrinking.

Now you have EoTM, people quickly found that instead of having to engage in any actual pvp, they could just farm it, since the matchups update every 3 hours and dont affect actual wvw scores, they are meaningless. Ironically enough the rewards are basically the only real reason people go there, it became a very attractive solution for those looking to quickly farm exp, karma, badges. There are even guilds that purposely setup commanders on all 3 sides on a map so they can rotate a farm.

Many wvw’ers blamed EoTM for stealing players away, as the population for wvw kept falling. Many will say it is unfair that wvw title and rank progression are progressable in EoTM. Many will point out the poor quality of play in EoTM, examples like a group instantly throwing down a bunch of ac’s as soon as they see an enemy group, or focusing on attacking a champion npc while enemies are incoming.

Many of us do not want more features from EoTM implemented into wvw, thats one reason why some people want it gotten rid of. Think of it as a factory of bad ideas. Personally I dont think it should be closed, but I also do not want anet testing stuff there and implementing them into wvw. Ideas should be tested in wvw, plain and simple. WvW needs to have better rewards then EoTM. Ktrains were not started with EoTM. Ktrains used to be organized by servers each week long before EoTM. If people want to farm exp or karma, why should I care, however actual wvw title and rank progression should be either limited or disabled in EoTM.

Lady Sapphirah.6234:

Ok I’ll spell it out…. The thing is, the morons, as u say, like me… who have been loyal to REAL wvw since release who want eotm gone are the ones who played REAL wvw before eotm existed and they know what REAL wvw was like back then. They know eotm started the problems that killed wvw and along with all of the other problems in wvw, eotm is still killing wvw. Eotm killed wvw because ppl went to eotm and stopped going to REAL wvw as they found they could pretty much run around in circles without having to fight others. They could farm loot from Lords and level their noob toons quickly and do it easy. Thats it… simple, ppl are generally lazy, like it easy… soooo running around in circles fighting nobody is much easier than going to REAL wvw. Because of this they nvr really came back. Its not that complicated. If they got rid of eotm some of these eotm ppl might actually decide to try REAL wvw, find they enjoy it and stay. This moron wants eotm gone.

If a casual player brought an upscale to “real WvW” they would be lynched by “real wvw players”

eotm needs to stay, as it lets people who are not TRY HARDS have FUN which is the whole point of the game. When i come home from work I just want to play my build in pvp stress free.

Any time I go to WvW it’s the same tune
1: commander shouting on team chat that you are playing crap (and then you wonder why no one uses ts)
2: Mr grumpy, kittening about the good old days of wvw and how their server has gone down hill
4. commander crying on team chat that he does not have enough of x players and wants you to play x class

eotm allows new players to experience casual WvW and if they like it they can try “real WvW” (like a gate way drug)

But honestly the attitude of some try hards i’m surprised WvW has not died sooner.

I had alot of fun fighting with guild in Eotm compared to WvsW. I mean the pve k-train components were boring. The pve in eotm is too static, all the lords and vets of significance sit in 1 location and beg passing players to approach and kill them. In terms of fighting other players though it was really fun. The teams are pretty balanced so you can get in a good matchup of fights that aren’t ridiculously one sided.The map terrain especially made the fights less static and boring. The bright lush landscape was also amazing and welcome compared to the more dreary ebg foliage colours….its too stale…eotm looks like a magical meadow and ebg looks like a stale forest. The diversity of enemy skins and types was also great, as was the FARMING compared to stupid worthless synthesizer nodes I HATE THEM.

And the respawn penalites were nice on eotm…if you die you have to run alllll the way back. Made death seem like something to avoid.

The only “REAL” difference between WvW and EOTM is that the “REAL” WvW players still believe the point matters

I’m on FA, don’t know if that matters or not, but all these people talking about no fights and ppl not fighting in eotm are spouting nonsense. Every single time I go there ppl are fighting plenty, and plenty of people are like me and go there to roam. Even the zergs fight each other whenever they meet. They don’t seek it out, but big battles happen all the time. But the same kind of commanders avoiding fights happened in “real wvw” too!

I remember before HoT when Alpine was still going strong, plenty of times, often actually, you’d see commanders avoiding enemy zergs in oder to capture objectives. I started going to EotM before HoT for that reason.

It’s no wonder Anet let wvw go to crap, look at who they are trying to cater to. The entire message of “REAL wvw” players is all about forcing ppl into doing stuff they don’t seem to do on their own. You can’t force people into something, you have to make it worth their while to do it.

“REAL wvw” players want to get rid of EotM to force more ppl into wvw. Yet back when ppl were in wvw, “REAL wvw” players spent all their time complaining about “rally bots” and casual players following their guild groups and in general whining non stop about all the non hard core unREAL wvw players mucking up their wvw.

EotM isn’t a “testing ground,” it’s just some content that got added as someone said, to give people something else to do. Anet said it is a testing ground or whatever, but they say a lot of stupid stuff that isn’t true. Name one thing that has been tested in EotM and been implemented in wvw. Nothing, because EotM has not changed at all in any significant way since it was released.

Most people want rewards and player vs player in a medium to large scale setting, they don’t want what REAL wvw players want and people need to accept that instead of trying to force others into player something that sucks, they will just quit.

Again, BL’s need to be fixed and made attractive to a large number of players. EotM needs to be left as it is, the only reliable place (besides EB when you can get in) to go do large scale open world type pvp.

I have had a lot of fun playing in EOTM and have done a fair amount of commanding there. It can be good if people play together using the map chat; problem is that it is hit and miss and there are some commanders that are not very good have that type A personality to take over commanding anyway. There are a lot more fights now then k-trains but it still feels empty in that competitive sense.

As I look back and have to say that WvW is much more satisfying. I had started playing WvW exclusively again a few months before HOT and oh boy was HOT ever a disaster and I finally stopped playing altogether in January. (I did jump on a couple weeks ago for 15 minutes and it was really fun playing in a small PUG squad taking towers and killing enemy on EB. )

My big regret is that I wish I had been playing the first year of GW2, I feel like I missed out on the golden age and I can’t believe they let one of the best game formats die away. I look forward to playing again on a regular basis later this year, I hope things are improved then.

EotM is good for two reasons:
1. Level alts
2. The quality of player is much lower, so it is a good place to go if you want an easier place to play.

That said, the OP forgets why EotM was put in place. It was there so that people had something to do during long queues. Those queues don’t exist anymore. It is better to merge the two different versions of WvW together to get a better population for everyone.

Sure some people will be upset, but that’s ok.

RodOfDeath.5247:

STIHL.2489:

EotM is fine, if people enjoy that, allow them to enjoy it, I just think that it should not reward WvW Exp or Give Badges, unless from PvP drops.

Agreed, eotm is a farm nothing more and a way to level your toon to 80, at least in the past you could speed to 80.

Totally with you, and it’s really wonderful for the people that like, it’s decent loot, karma, and exp, it’s like this ultimate PvE playground for the WvW player, so I can fully understand why they enjoy it. I just don’t feel that it should reward WvW Exp or Badges, outside PvP interactions.

EOTM serves a purpose for leveling easy mode and karma train. But in no way manner shape or form should it be described as wvw or should it have wvw rewards/contribute to wvw rank. EOTM devalues wvw as a game mode…this is where the pve rot started for wvw imho.

Keep it but remove it’s association with wvw.