Guild Wars 2

There is a bit of discussion about EotM not being “real” WvW, and for me, I would like say to say that in some cases they are both the same. It’s Open Team based PvP, It’s Point Capture, and it’s the same idea of Three Teams. Red, Green, Blue. I can play “real” I run around flipping points and capping objectives in both environments without a single clash with other players, equally so, I can get bombarded by endless blob wars in both environments So it’s not the Mechanics that are real;y a dividing issue.

However, I can see why EotM is not considered “Real” WvW, because there is no “World Loyalty” in EotM.

EotM is like this one big huge Pug of people that are there for loot, karma, and exp. They don’t care what server they are running with or against. Leave EotM to sell/buy/trade, come back and even if it is the same “match” you can end up on a different map, running with new people, under a new commander, and facing opponents you never saw before. There is no Unity or Loyalty in EotM

Unlike WvW, where the people you see out there Today, are the same people that were there Yesterday, and will be there Tomorrow, there is a sense of My World. I will defend My Borderlands. WvW is like being in this one huge Guild. We may not all get along, but we are all part of the same team.

I think that really is where the division is between the two.

Just wanted to put that out.

EoTM, was supposed to be, basically a place to screw around in while waiting to get into wvw, the problems started occurring when anet decided to treat eotm equally to wvw.

It is different in mechanics obviously, which leads to player attitude being different towards it: Short matches, random players, lack of/difficulty setting up coordination and communication, no meaning to score, instance system, etc. While there is a pvp element, it is not the same as wvw just because there are some similarities. It is no more wvw then the pvp game mode. The way many players treat it is more like PvEvP, go there to farm like you would in pve, with an element of pvp.

If people have fun, god bless thats what they should be doing in a game, thats what its all about. I am not one of those that thinks eotm should be removed. Although I do think there should be a focus shifted away from eotm when it comes to making changes to WvW. It is not hard to see that the DBL layout, and much of the hot features were inspired by eotm. I dont want eotm used a testing grounds for wvw changes and features. And at least it seems anet is moving away from that after announcing that upcoming wvw changes will be beta tested on live servers first before being fully implemented. So thats a step in the right direction.

Simply remove 3 color system from EotM and only leave NPCs to fight. The people who love EotM will love it even more because there wont be any annoying enemy players around and so the loot/xp gain per minute gets even higher. EotM as pure PvE map makes perfect sense, calling it part of WvW is silly.

Or just remove it so all the karma trains move to Silvewaste. Again, its about PvE players running around in mindless blob, does not matter which map they on or who they “fight”.

EoTM is WvW in the same sense sPvP would be WvW if there was a third side.

I think the real problem started when EOTM. overshot its purpose and became instead of a waiting area the main rank-farm area.

Its quicker more easy, less fights, less enemies and like Stihl said there is less loyalty you are not affiliated with one server.

Angel Heart.6739:

I think the real problem started when EOTM. overshot its purpose and became instead of a waiting area the main rank-farm area.

Its quicker more easy, less fights, less enemies and like Stihl said there is less loyalty you are not affiliated with one server.

How can it even be a waiting area?
I’m often using our BL as my “waiting zone” and I often click the “EB is ready” away as I’m in the middle of a fight.
You can’t commit to something if you don’t know when you’ll leave – so the very idea of EotM is flawed. And at least on none of the servers I’ve been to it’s ever been used as a waiting line – maybe some people did but I very much doubt it.

Jana.6831:

How can it even be a waiting area?
I’m often using our BL as my “waiting zone” and I often click the “EB is ready” away as I’m in the middle of a fight.

When they started eotm you had queue every night on every map… Very long queue, sometimes 2H long…
Now it’s true we can’t imagine that… But it was a time, a long time ago, that we had a lot of people in WvW…. I was in T3 at this time, not even in T1.

They should really close at least 1/3 of the server (I speak for EU, don’t know other).

Sich.7103:

Jana.6831:

How can it even be a waiting area?
I’m often using our BL as my “waiting zone” and I often click the “EB is ready” away as I’m in the middle of a fight.

When they started eotm you had queue every night on every map… Very long queue, sometimes 2H long…
Now it’s true we can’t imagine that… But it was a time, a long time ago, that we had a lot of people in WvW…. I was in T3 at this time, not even in T1.

They should really close at least 1/3 of the server (I speak for EU, don’t know other).

Yes, on some servers, I’m pretty sure they still were the minority – but that wasn’t my point.

Jana.6831:

Yes, on some servers, I’m pretty sure they still were the minority – but that wasn’t my point.

What was your point then?

Back just before EotM went live there were a lot of servers that regularly had queues on 2-4 maps and people had to queue in Lions Arch. EotM was to give WvW players a place to play when the queues were that bad.

Now, sure, there are very few server that have a problem with queues. Even the number 1 servers on EU and NA will struggle to have queues on all maps. But back then it was different.

psizone.8437:

What was your point then?

Jana.6831:

You can’t commit to something if you don’t know when you’ll leave

OP basically got the one point that defines wvw: server pride.

If you take this away everything will be like eotm. No matter the fancy mechanics that may come.

I’ve played both variations; WvW and EOTM.

This topic, not this particular forum thread, but mostly teeming with hate towards EOTM in it’s entirety was sprouted long ago and like a river; relentlessly spewing it’s unwavering contents wherever it pleases to this day.

I try to stay neutral but accepting of the facts.

Yes, EOTM is originally a testing ground. We’ve established that, much alike the concrete broken promises & definite disappointments ANet perfectly delivers wave after wave for us – “improving WvW”. I don’t remember which exact highlighted topic that was, there were many. Go look back through the years. You’re bound to find something related to “we’re working on it”.

This should come to no surprise to any reasonable folk tackling the concept of EOTM and it’s intended purpose – a supposed place to test content, of which I don’t ever recall anything significant undergoing “testing” in there before release in “real WvW”.

Long ago when WvW was brimming with active, swarming players full fledged queues on all borderlands was a common, real thing. The only option at those particular times if you wished to jump into anything remotely WvW related? EOTM. Confirmed this game mode served as an overflow, the concept of stated “waiting room” for players wanting instant access to said WvW related game play.

That alone was healthy as an alternative; I am not one to be fond of being stuck waiting in LA for my turn to enter real WvW achieving nothing in the meantime.

So. Similar game game modes and rewards. The only thing that differs is the game play itself and what players alone choose to make use of this game mode for themselves. As OP indicates; it’s a very strange presence to experience initially, primarily being teamed with other servers representing the entirety of a third of the current server positions/ranks, e.g; all green teams for the week will be on the green side in EOTM.

I don’t think it’s a negative aspect, but one to be challenged. Knowing someone as an ally one week and having them switch to face you as the opposition next week gives opportunity for yourself to path improvements; how successful can a 4 hour match go being teamed with primarily random individuals? Teamwork. Opposed to home servers and logging in to the same people each time on the borderlands this EOTM provides oppotunities to branch out and communicate with others, different players. Varying people. Understanding I am of the presence of “two-faced” players. Allies one week and enemies the next – it is awkward and may not deem acceptable by some but to others it’s a refreshing experience.

Moving on to the next category; use and rewards. There is no doubt when it comes to the human mind most people will try to take the easiest, least labor-intensive path for whatever ungodly reason to get what they desire. I think we can all agree most players whom venture into EOTM are greeted with the easy doorway to rewards. Sure, you make it what you want in there, but most players are happy to reap in whatever benefits they can via doing the bare minimum – board the train, mash #1 and collect your rewards.

I can’t quite grasp how much of the player base has collectively and acceptingly molded EOTM into just that – evident by the sea of “hatred” towards the game mode; it is what players make of it and so it’s commonly branded as the place where lazy, mindless players go to rake in their loot.

For whatever reason certain players out there relentlessly pursue the idea that the game mode itself has no purpose, and that score doesn’t matter. I think these players are confused with what they are given. An un-solved puzzle with infinite, varying results. They can’t be reasoned with however – it’s a game mode that is served with the opportunity to do what you want in whilst supposedly waiting. The overall score doesn’t have to matter. You make the purpose. Are you in there to roll over other players? Defend a tower? Board the so commonly termed “K-train”?

I think these kind of individuals do not like change, or perhaps their ability to give constructive feedback is lacking.. Non-existant is an alternative consideration.

So there is one similarity between the modes – purpose. Or none. It’s up to you. I’m not sure about others out there but WvW as a whole… Post-mega servers and the swath of unimaginable horrendous changes unleashed upon us leaves me in agreement that our red-headed stepchild of the game modes (“real WvW”) has little actual purpose in terms of final outcome. Someone always wins at the end of the week. But what? Not much. Long gone are tournaments.

It has been noticed the increase in player activity in EOTM regarding more fights. With what we were served on the dining table in terms of catastrophic balance updates, changes to WvW and most recently – HoT and yet another soak in the tub of broken promises I don’t find it surprising players are rather dipping their toes in EOTM as opposed to “real” WvW.

EOTM is arguably the closest thing to an old recollection of an aged WvW game mode, mechanically speaking. It is now I believe, considered an old school place. Players and guilds would rather fight and play in a game mode near-free and almost rid of the unspeakable horrors that were included in HoT regarding WvW.

I’m scared of change, admittedly. But I do have the heart and patience to try things out.

Right now, “real WvW” is not as fun as it used to be with these changes in place. Pirate ship isn’t fun. Hammer train frontline days – it’s been too long, I miss you, stability.

I don’t think EOTM has “stolen” players from “real WvW”, but that it is an optional similar game mode for people to play. It’s just a shame players choose to milk it for it’s “rewards”, even with the nerf it was struck with.

I think things are out of whack regarding WvW as a whole. Who’s fault is it, if any at all?

At the end of the day people will always nit-pick and cruelly judge things however they please but just remember, it’s okay to play the game mode(s) that you enjoy. I don’t think it should hurt or affect anyone negatively… But for whatever reason somewhere out there.. Someone always takes offense, hatefully so.

Zephyra.4709:

EOTM is arguably the closest thing to an old recollection of an aged WvW game mode, mechanically speaking. It is now I believe, considered an old school place. Players and guilds would rather fight and play in a game mode near-free and almost rid of the unspeakable horrors that were included in HoT regarding WvW.

EotM has got everything HoT brought to wvw: Automated upgrades, OP PvE buffs, a map that kills the players walking on it, too many PvE elements that do your work.
The closest it gets to old school wvw is EB and that’s about it.

Zephyra.4709:

Long text

Even you, who try to defend EotM can not provide any reason for it to exist. Yes, there was once many players waiting in queues. There is none now. Yes it was suppose to be testing ground. That never happened.

So, what is the reason we have EotM?

I am not really “hating” it. I have been there maybe 3 times, spent most of the time trying to get into same instance with the rest of the guild and then fell off the cliff. I do however think that rewards, being in whatever form – xp, loot, wvw titles – should only be awarded for playing in real WvW against other servers. You can not farm them as easily in real matches, so having same rewards in EotM makes everything feel cheap and pointless. If it would provide different rewards, different loots, xp and no wvw xp, I would not care. It would be another thing I would never want to go again. Like PvE raid. Or dungeon.

But as long you can farm your WvW items in EotM, it will continue to suck players away from actual WvW, making servers even emptier and matches even more boring.

FogLeg.9354:

Even you, who try to defend EotM can not provide any reason for it to exist. Yes, there was once many players waiting in queues. There is none now. Yes it was suppose to be testing ground. That never happened.

So, what is the reason we have EotM?

EoTM is like EB. If you are looking for fights there is typically more population there then in other places. There will be times where one side has chased the others away but that is rare. So if there is nothing going on else where in WvW or people are just running around in PvDing it can be place to go to pick a fight since it will be populated. I say this after playing in all tiers 1-8.

And have said it before, where they failed was not figuring out how to add those 4 hour match scores into WvW so that people could enjoy a change of map but still aid their server. That’s where EoTM fails, its a very selfish map, but that’s also because its designed that way.

That said, people that think that just removing EoTM from the game will boost population I think are incorrect. I think it would a split, some people would go PvP, some WvW and yes some PvE. WvWers that jump to EoTM are typically over there to fight in a different map environment. I think if ABL does just replace DBL more people that were enjoying the diverse fighting areas will got EoTM when they are bored with the WvW maps.

In either case its arrogant of players to say, I don’t play that game mode remove it, even if other people are. I hate Raids, should I be here saying remove them, or talking about how this game mode should be adjusted. You don’t have a lot of EoTM people out here talking about EoTM, because they are either playing it, or don’t like it and are playing standard WvW. So, stop mixing the conversations unless you have a solution on how to roll EoTM into standard WvW.

2 cents.

So, what is the reason we have EotM?

When they released it, it was WvW Queue system help.

Now it is another game mode that a lot of people enjoy.

ANet would have to be complete idiots to remove a mode of the game that is that popular. So they are not going to. But I absolutely agree that some tweaks to rewards (especially badges and WXP) are needed. Problem there, is that most likely, they will just give EotM a new currency system, that is much better than Badges anyways :p

Removing EotM now would be similar to asking "Please remove Orr, so the other Tyria maps get populated!" or "Please remove the most popular PvP map, so the other maps gets played more!", "please remove Raids and Fractals so Dungeons get played.".

"Real WvW" is the minority. If we had a voting system for servers vs megaserver system with everyone that plays the game, I would be very surprised if the player base selected servers.

I sense some bitterness here.

Don’t hate on eotm just because it’s a fun and fast paced casual wvw zone that doesn’t have any issues like “real” wvw.

FogLeg.9354:

Zephyra.4709:

Long text

Even you, who try to defend EotM can not provide any reason for it to exist. Yes, there was once many players waiting in queues. There is none now. Yes it was suppose to be testing ground. That never happened.

And when they roll out the big WvW update and it goes to Alliances, you’ll then know what’s been tested.

DeWolfe.2174:

FogLeg.9354:

Zephyra.4709:

Long text

Even you, who try to defend EotM can not provide any reason for it to exist. Yes, there was once many players waiting in queues. There is none now. Yes it was suppose to be testing ground. That never happened.

And when they roll out the big WvW update and it goes to Alliances, you’ll then know what’s been tested.

Very exciting!!!

Swagger.1459:

DeWolfe.2174:

FogLeg.9354:

Zephyra.4709:

Long text

Even you, who try to defend EotM can not provide any reason for it to exist. Yes, there was once many players waiting in queues. There is none now. Yes it was suppose to be testing ground. That never happened.

And when they roll out the big WvW update and it goes to Alliances, you’ll then know what’s been tested.

Very exciting!!!

Yup exciting to not be able to notice how many players have left.

bloodletting wolf.2837:

Swagger.1459:

DeWolfe.2174:

FogLeg.9354:

Zephyra.4709:

Long text

Even you, who try to defend EotM can not provide any reason for it to exist. Yes, there was once many players waiting in queues. There is none now. Yes it was suppose to be testing ground. That never happened.

And when they roll out the big WvW update and it goes to Alliances, you’ll then know what’s been tested.

Very exciting!!!

Yup exciting to not be able to notice how many players have left.

It is what it is.

Everything will be ok, wvw will survive and start thriving again soon.

There is always eotm if you don’t like the new “real” wvw.

STIHL.2489:

There is a bit of discussion about EotM not being “real”

…..

I think that really is where the division is between the two.

Just wanted to put that out.

EotM was created based on a lot of player feedback about issues with WvW (stuff for smaller groups to do, more penalty for deaths so fewer waypoints, scaling of bosses, more interesting terrain, instanced based to avoid being stuck in queues, shorter match lengths to reduce the impact of timezone coverage and night capping, etc etc).

What your post has missed is that Anet has left EotM to be the equivalent of the Queensdale Champ train: new players come into ‘WvW’ to level their tunes in EotM and are met with k-trains avoiding each other to trade caps, and quite often outright collusion/match fixing. Much as it was a problem with the Queensdale garbage – this is your new player’s introduction to the content. EotM is as much real WvW as PVP servers the advertise win trading for dailies is ‘real PvP’.

TheGrimm.5624:

…its arrogant of players to say, I don’t play that game mode remove it, even if other people are. I hate Raids, should I be here saying remove them…

I agree so much with this line.

I don’t think people are upset that EotM exists, or that people like it, I think that it’s more the fact the people that could be helping their Server are instead off doing EotM. Again, returning to that whole “Server Pride” division between the two.

joneirikb.7506:

“Real WvW” is the minority. If we had a voting system for servers vs megaserver system with everyone that plays the game, I would be very surprised if the player base selected servers.

It is minority because EotM exists. If you ask players to choose between dumb karma training system, easy loots and loads of xp for doing nothing and fun, interesting, exciting fights that basically give you no rewards, many players pick first option. Because they are lazy.

Because of EotM many players think that is how WvW works. They think farming loot and xp in EotM is what EVRYONE does. Of course they would be upset if that would become less profitable, but it still has to be done if we want any future for WvW.

FogLeg.9354:

joneirikb.7506:

“Real WvW” is the minority. If we had a voting system for servers vs megaserver system with everyone that plays the game, I would be very surprised if the player base selected servers.

It is minority because EotM exists. If you ask players to choose between dumb karma training system, easy loots and loads of xp for doing nothing and fun, interesting, exciting fights that basically give you no rewards, many players pick first option. Because they are lazy.

Because of EotM many players think that is how WvW works. They think farming loot and xp in EotM is what EVRYONE does. Of course they would be upset if that would become less profitable, but it still has to be done if we want any future for WvW.

They already did remove most of the rewards in EotM months ago and it didn’t fix anything. Maybe a few left to go back to PvE farms but I think the rest just love running in circles.

I think you should more clearly seperate things that are different to discuss this topic adequately! As long as they are all mixed up discussion is very difficult.

1. Map: EotM-Map vs Old BL vs New BL vs EB
2. Mode: 4h matches with demand driven Map-Capacity vs 168h matches with fixed number of maps and 27 open teams vs 3 random teams
3. Usage: Original Intent vs Current Usage vs WvW

Most comments are about usage, but usage is not really in ANets hand, it’s the player that decide IF they use it (or not) and HOW they use it. ANet has only influence on Map and Mode. Of course some aspekts of Map and Mode favour or hinder specific usages, and that is a really interesting topic, but it is completeloy useless to discuss if you like or not like the current usage and if it is the original intend or not.

So to have a useful discussion focus on aspekts of map and mode and how do you think they help or hinder your favoured playstyle.

Entenkommando.5208:

OP basically got the one point that defines wvw: server pride.

If you take this away everything will be like eotm. No matter the fancy mechanics that may come.

+1000

Eotm is nothing more than a pve power leveling karma train, a test ground for small guilds to practice running over large uplevel zergs, and a place to test roaming builds.

Other than that serves zero purpose.

Close it and make those players play WvW

Simple,as that

Azukas.1426:

Close it and make those players play WvW

Simple,as that

Even simpler: Close WvW,

• there are much fewer that will miss it
• Much less complains on the forum
• much less things to fix to mke it playable

Azukas.1426:

Close it and make those players play WvW

Simple,as that

Close it, and you make 99% of the players go play something else than WvW. You solve nothing, except increasing hatred about WvW among the non WvW-ers. Or just quit.

Dayra.7405:

Azukas.1426:

Close it and make those players play WvW

Simple,as that

Even simpler: Close WvW,
* there are much fewer that will miss it
* Much less complains on the forum
* much less things to fix to mke it playable

Unfortunately, very much true...

If you look at this from a pure numbers perspective this option is very likely. I’m glad ANet doesn’t follow numbers only. Thankfully, for us, it seems they want to keep the existing WvW, at least in some form and shape.

You know, it’s kinda funny. EotM has balance and none of the problems that EB and the Desert BLs have.

We could get rid of those and just make EotM the main WvW and we’d solve everything.

TheHeretic.3529:

You know, it’s kinda funny. EotM has balance and none of the problems that EB and the Desert BLs have.

We could get rid of those and just make EotM the main WvW and we’d solve everything.

In which way is EotM balanced? (honest question)

Aezyr.5304:

TheHeretic.3529:

You know, it’s kinda funny. EotM has balance and none of the problems that EB and the Desert BLs have.

We could get rid of those and just make EotM the main WvW and we’d solve everything.

In which way is EotM balanced? (honest question)

Rotating servers takes care of population and there’s no tactics (at least I dont think they’re there, Ive never seen them used)

TheHeretic.3529:

Aezyr.5304:

TheHeretic.3529:

You know, it’s kinda funny. EotM has balance and none of the problems that EB and the Desert BLs have.

We could get rid of those and just make EotM the main WvW and we’d solve everything.

In which way is EotM balanced? (honest question)

Rotating servers takes care of population and there’s no tactics (at least I dont think they’re there, Ive never seen them used)

In EU there is only one side competititve and thats the colour which includes SFR. In prime time there is one map played by all 3 sides (until the other 2 sides got enough rofl stomped). All other map copies are spawns from the SFR colour and therefore empty.
Instead of tactics EotM has it’s own mechanics like auto turrets, siege scorpions or stupid buffs.
Yes I see, it’s completle balanced.

Azukas.1426:

Close it and make those players play WvW

Simple,as that

All I know is everytime I go to WvW seems I’m the only one there. Ya Fun!
EoTM there is always someone there and Im either fighting, defending a keep, or running with a small havoc group. Is there tactics there?? Depends on the commander. If its a K train commander then NO, but a fight commander……heck Ya!

I don’t care about server pride or rewards, it’s all about the fast pace craziness of alot of people on a small map. This is whats fun for me so why do you want to remove it, so I can go on an empty map and twiddle my thumbs????

I really do not get this argument at all. I play both, depending on my mood. There are WAY more fights in EotM than WvW. What EoTM gives is a casual experience, where out of game communication isn’t needed, you can play different builds, can pug it, can level there without too much disadvantage, etc.

My experience with WvW is quite similar to EoTM, except the players hide behind their egos and point to EoTM as the ‘evil empire’. Most people ktrain in real WvW as well. You have zergs hiding siege, trying to get towers secretly/quickly and moving on. The only time you can really expect a fight is if a keep is involved for the most part. You have zergs jumping maps to get structures quickly/free of opposition, padding the PPT, etc.

Both areas are very similar. The only real difference is that the faster pace of EotM allows players to gather karma faster than the WvW folks, due to the condensed map, more players, less pve elements (no upgraded camps, mercs, upgraded lords, etc).

I will say this though, design wise, EoTM is the best wvw map in the game IMO. Its just big enough to get around quickly but feel ‘big’, has some choke points but not overloaded with them, and the spacing is very well planned (aside from blue keep).

Dawdler.8521:

EoTM is WvW in the same sense sPvP would be WvW if there was a third side.

So, PvP is PPT? hmm – that is news to me…..

EotM WAS supposed to be the learning map for new WvW players, now it is the rank farming map for mithril level players.

bloodletting wolf.2837:

Swagger.1459:

DeWolfe.2174:

FogLeg.9354:

Zephyra.4709:

Long text

Even you, who try to defend EotM can not provide any reason for it to exist. Yes, there was once many players waiting in queues. There is none now. Yes it was suppose to be testing ground. That never happened.

And when they roll out the big WvW update and it goes to Alliances, you’ll then know what’s been tested.

Very exciting!!!

Yup exciting to not be able to notice how many players have left.

Yeah, they spend more effort in making things look like the population isn’t dropping than they do on solutions to stop it from dropping to begin with.
I understand it can be difficult but how many times have they made changes that are in direct opposition to what people want. This is the only game I have played where it honestly feels like a case study on how much they can mess with a game and its player base and still be profitable. IMO they have done way to many things for it to just be bad decisions. Every other MMO I have played has stumbled on the way but GW2’s stumbles feel more blatant to me. Maybe its just the egos that are in charge and they want their vision no matter the cost but that is a really bad attitude to have.

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

Swagger.1459:

DeWolfe.2174:

FogLeg.9354:

Zephyra.4709:

Long text

Even you, who try to defend EotM can not provide any reason for it to exist. Yes, there was once many players waiting in queues. There is none now. Yes it was suppose to be testing ground. That never happened.

And when they roll out the big WvW update and it goes to Alliances, you’ll then know what’s been tested.

Very exciting!!!

Yup exciting to not be able to notice how many players have left.

Yeah, they spend more effort in making things look like the population isn’t dropping than they do on solutions to stop it from dropping to begin with.
I understand it can be difficult but how many times have they made changes that are in direct opposition to what people want. This is the only game I have played where it honestly feels like a case study on how much they can mess with a game and its player base and still be profitable. IMO they have done way to many things for it to just be bad decisions. Every other MMO I have played has stumbled on the way but GW2’s stumbles feel more blatant to me. Maybe its just the egos that are in charge and they want their vision no matter the cost but that is a really bad attitude to have.

Well, population balance and rewards are extremely important and being addressed this month.

I’m not exactly happy about things myself, and agree with some of what you say, but it’s not about ego. I personally feel it’s about staffing issues and project management more than anything.

We will have to wait and see what turn arounds anet will make.

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

Swagger.1459:

DeWolfe.2174:

FogLeg.9354:

Zephyra.4709:

Long text

Even you, who try to defend EotM can not provide any reason for it to exist. Yes, there was once many players waiting in queues. There is none now. Yes it was suppose to be testing ground. That never happened.

And when they roll out the big WvW update and it goes to Alliances, you’ll then know what’s been tested.

Very exciting!!!

Yup exciting to not be able to notice how many players have left.

Yeah, they spend more effort in making things look like the population isn’t dropping than they do on solutions to stop it from dropping to begin with.
I understand it can be difficult but how many times have they made changes that are in direct opposition to what people want. This is the only game I have played where it honestly feels like a case study on how much they can mess with a game and its player base and still be profitable. IMO they have done way to many things for it to just be bad decisions. Every other MMO I have played has stumbled on the way but GW2’s stumbles feel more blatant to me. Maybe its just the egos that are in charge and they want their vision no matter the cost but that is a really bad attitude to have.

I honestly believe they are doing everything they can to make WvW an unplayable pile of kitten so that they can get rid of enough players that there won’t be a huge uproar when they destroy the servers and turn it into a megaserver. Anet prefers EotM because it’s very casual which equals less work for them.
They’ve turned into the kind of company that would rather create something crappy that makes them a lot of money for very little work, like candy crush, instead of something creative like they did with GW1.

STIHL.2489:

There is a bit of discussion about EotM not being “real” WvW, and for me, I would like say to say that in some cases they are both the same. It’s Open Team based PvP, It’s Point Capture, and it’s the same idea of Three Teams. Red, Green, Blue. I can play “real” I run around flipping points and capping objectives in both environments without a single clash with other players, equally so, I can get bombarded by endless blob wars in both environments So it’s not the Mechanics that are real;y a dividing issue.

However, I can see why EotM is not considered “Real” WvW, because there is no “World Loyalty” in EotM.

EotM is like this one big huge Pug of people that are there for loot, karma, and exp. They don’t care what server they are running with or against. Leave EotM to sell/buy/trade, come back and even if it is the same “match” you can end up on a different map, running with new people, under a new commander, and facing opponents you never saw before. There is no Unity or Loyalty in EotM

Unlike WvW, where the people you see out there Today, are the same people that were there Yesterday, and will be there Tomorrow, there is a sense of My World. I will defend My Borderlands. WvW is like being in this one huge Guild. We may not all get along, but we are all part of the same team.

I think that really is where the division is between the two.

Just wanted to put that out.

I think this pretty much sums it up. EotM is a soulless void populated by automatons <cough>bots<cough> and people who are nigh-automatons.

Svarty.8019:

STIHL.2489:

There is a bit of discussion about EotM not being “real” WvW, and for me, I would like say to say that in some cases they are both the same. It’s Open Team based PvP, It’s Point Capture, and it’s the same idea of Three Teams. Red, Green, Blue. I can play “real” I run around flipping points and capping objectives in both environments without a single clash with other players, equally so, I can get bombarded by endless blob wars in both environments So it’s not the Mechanics that are real;y a dividing issue.

However, I can see why EotM is not considered “Real” WvW, because there is no “World Loyalty” in EotM.

EotM is like this one big huge Pug of people that are there for loot, karma, and exp. They don’t care what server they are running with or against. Leave EotM to sell/buy/trade, come back and even if it is the same “match” you can end up on a different map, running with new people, under a new commander, and facing opponents you never saw before. There is no Unity or Loyalty in EotM

Unlike WvW, where the people you see out there Today, are the same people that were there Yesterday, and will be there Tomorrow, there is a sense of My World. I will defend My Borderlands. WvW is like being in this one huge Guild. We may not all get along, but we are all part of the same team.

I think that really is where the division is between the two.

Just wanted to put that out.

I think this pretty much sums it up. EotM is a soulless void populated by automatons <cough>bots<cough> and people who are nigh-automatons.

Totally agree on the above points!!

To the people that say we could close all the other forms of WvW and just do EotM.

You know, we could. And it would be the Stuff of Legend.

Every WvW Fight Guild, and anyone and everyone who is just looking to kill, will suddenly arrive in EotM, ready to slaughter indiscriminately anyone not of their team, taking I would imagine heightened levels of glee to crush under their boot any Quasi-PvE player, Up-tick, or Anyone Looking to K-Train. The bodies would litter the fields like rivers across the map.

All the Bunker and Turtle players would Siege up the Fortifications to insane levels, the likes that people that only played EotM have never seen, nor could even fathom could exist.

8 Tiers of some some of the hardest hardcore core WvW players will suddenly move to EotM, filled with vitriol and embitterment, looking to make sure that every up-level, or quasi-pve player pays a dear price for their lost beloved ‘real’ WvW experience.

The hate and salt would be so thick we would be able to repair walls with it.

Oh I would vote for that change, just to see pure pandemonium that would cause.

Wvw was extremely successful before eotm. In fact eotm was made because wvw was so successful with too many ppl waiting in queues. It was introduced so these ppl had somewhere to go while they waited. The problem I have with eotm is that the population in wvw dropped dramatically when eotm arrived, as ppl figured they could slack off and go there and do what they do… thus starting and causing (along with the other problems caused by Anet) the demise of wvw.

The reason (along with the mess Anet has made of wvw) that eotm is more populated is simply that it is easy to farm, run around in circles and level up without having to fight scary people in the scary real wvw. People are lazy and like easy.

My point is that eotm took and still takes ppl away from wvw.

I quite like the eotm map, I think its interesting and fun. I wouldnt mind if it were included in real wvw, along with the other maps, but really eotm needs to go and yes, they need to be made to go to real wvw lol

Then again the thought of them closing real wvw causing wvw’ers to go to eotm is a juicy thought lol… Dont want that to happen at all really, but would love to see eotm get absolutely hammered and watch them run :P

STIHL.2489:

To the people that say we could close all the other forms of WvW and just do EotM.

You know, we could. And it would be the Stuff of Legend.

Every WvW Fight Guild, and anyone and everyone who is just looking to kill, will suddenly arrive in EotM, ready to slaughter indiscriminately anyone not of their team, taking I would imagine heightened levels of glee to crush under their boot any Quasi-PvE player, Up-tick, or Anyone Looking to K-Train. The bodies would litter the fields like rivers across the map.

All the Bunker and Turtle players would Siege up the Fortifications to insane levels, the likes that people that only played EotM have never seen, nor could even fathom could exist.

8 Tiers of some some of the hardest hardcore core WvW players will suddenly move to EotM, filled with vitriol and embitterment, looking to make sure that every up-level, or quasi-pve player pays a dear price for their lost beloved ‘real’ WvW experience.

The hate and salt would be so thick we would be able to repair walls with it.

Oh I would vote for that change, just to see pure pandemonium that would cause.

+1 I love your sense of humor! Don’t think I could quite force myself to vote for that just to watch it, but it is tempting…

joneirikb.7506:

+1 I love your sense of humor! Don’t think I could quite force myself to vote for that just to watch it, but it is tempting…

Thanks

STIHL.2489:

To the people that say we could close all the other forms of WvW and just do EotM.

You know, we could. And it would be the Stuff of Legend.

Every WvW Fight Guild, and anyone and everyone who is just looking to kill, will suddenly arrive in EotM, ready to slaughter indiscriminately anyone not of their team, taking I would imagine heightened levels of glee to crush under their boot any Quasi-PvE player, Up-tick, or Anyone Looking to K-Train. The bodies would litter the fields like rivers across the map.

All the Bunker and Turtle players would Siege up the Fortifications to insane levels, the likes that people that only played EotM have never seen, nor could even fathom could exist.

8 Tiers of some some of the hardest hardcore core WvW players will suddenly move to EotM, filled with vitriol and embitterment, looking to make sure that every up-level, or quasi-pve player pays a dear price for their lost beloved ‘real’ WvW experience.

That was brilliant post, thank you!

This is test post only because thread shows up empty for me.