Guild Wars 2

Never have I been so infuriated by something in my entire life.

Let me explain the situation. I’m doing the jumping puzzle, all well and good. Fall quite a few times in the dark room, it’s my 2nd time, 1st time getting to that part. I fought a couple people, feared people off of things (I’m a Necro).

What I wasn’t expecting though was the room after the dark room. I enter to find about 10 of us (Sea of Sorrows) attempting to get across the puzzle. When I walk in all I see is minotaurs and the cages, all kinda clicked relatively quickly – cages and mob spawns activated by players above us.

What didn’t click was the fact that the players above us had built 3 arrow carts and a mortar.

How the hell is this fair? It completely prevents us from getting across the puzzle. Not only did we have to contend with a pack of Veteran Minotaurs/Gryphons/Drakes, we had to deal with the players attacking us from above AND the siege weapons that were built.

After about 30 minutes of trying and failing, mixed attempts, some terrible due to being stuck in combat, they all jumped down after we had just tried to deal with a pack of mobs. That part is again, normal. PvP and a bit of a cheap shot due to the mobs. But they were lovely enough to leave 2 people up to shoot at us with the arrow carts.

Arena.Net. Is this intended? Are players supposed to be able to create siege weapons in the middle of a jumping puzzle? Is it not enough that we have to deal with player activated traps, let alone any amount of siege weapons that people may bring in?

Keep the traps and the PvP aspect of it, that is fine. I don’t care about that. But it’s ludicrous that players are allowed to bombard us with siege weapons.
And it’s not like I can come back later. No one is going to get past that area and now everyone knows that that area can now be griefed.

doing pve stuff in a pvp zone, people will kill you.

NixZero.7540:

pvp zone, people will kill you.

somehow I don’t think the devs intended for people to spend 5 hours camping it with siege equipment

Of course it’s intended. It’s a PvP zone, and you GET siege equipment at the end! Preventing enemies from getting up keeps free siege equipment off the field.

What a ridiculous complaint.

You get siege equipment in WvW.
It is a PvP area. (You even PvP’d in it.)

You get a way to go in stealth, as a suggestion, use it.(It’s this pretty thing, which makes it so others don’t see you, fairly early in the WvW EB jump puzzle. Not sure about the others.)

Its PvP. If you wanna do PvE dont join World vs World.

Simple.

aeroh.8930:

NixZero.7540:

pvp zone, people will kill you.

somehow I don’t think the devs intended for people to spend 5 hours camping it with siege equipment

devs intended for people to use the equipment that they get, there are zones where you cant deploy war equipment and that isnt one of them.

Mishi.7058:

You get siege equipment in WvW.
It is a PvP area. (You even PvP’d in it.)

You get a way to go in stealth, as a suggestion, use it.(It’s this pretty thing, which makes it so others don’t see you, fairly early in the WvW EB jump puzzle. Not sure about the others.)

Stealth works up until the dark room where you need a torch that cancels the effect. I’m pretty sure the 3 minute duration wouldn’t last through the dark room any way.

The beast arena after the dark room is a death trap. Once in combat. You cannot escape. The jumps cannot be jumped. Arrow carts can freely rain down arrows with no chance to counter. There is PVP and there is griefing. This is griefing.

If you reach the beast arena and find siege weapons set up. You may as well not bother. Because if you step into the arena, you will either be killed or stuck there with no other option than to log out.

@ OP: I’m guessing the people doing it was Eredon Terrace?

Don’t assume =[. [/offtopic]

Anyway, while I do not think this is fair, I do not think it (WvW) is intended to be fair. I agree that camping is pretty low, but it is a part of PvP. People do it in Call of Duty, and other shooters, so it only makes sense we’d see it in another PvP format.

While the majority of people dislike campers (myself included), they will still do it anyway. Even without the siege equipment, all they need is a few elementalists to meteor shower and you’re stuck in the same situation.

Hard not to assume when I’ve seen it first hand. Many. Many. MANY times. It is always Eredon Terrace.

Also the difference between an elementalist using meteor and people using siege equipment is. Eles have to get in line of sight to place down meteor. That gives me a chance to yank them down for a good fight. A counter.

Siege weapons? No chance when they can bombard you safely from behind line of sight.

@Celeras
Tell me, how is this is PvP when:
1) If I try to set down my own siege weapon, it will obviously get destroyed and I can’t attack theirs.
2) They have a TRAP that they can activate.
It’s Player vs Siege Engine that we can’t attack.
It’s griefing.

@Lordrosicky and Preacher
Thank you for not reading my post at all. Notice the part where I have no issue with PvP and I participated in it myself?

@Mishi
Right, you mean the Stealth right after the log trap? The one that lasts 4 minutes? It also gets deactivated by dmg. I can’t avoid an arrow cart spamming 1 area.

@NixZero
Why would the devs intend to let players place siege weapons in a jumping puzzle when they can already activate traps?

@Azure Prower.
You are correct, it was Eredon Terrace.

@Proud Heart
I get what you mean, that it’s not intended to be fair. That’s why they get player activated traps and can already shoot down at us. But I get that. That’s the point of it being PvP. I don’t mind that.
Or how about you tell the people on your server to not be so cheap and let us up so we can tear you apart?
And as Azure said, players can be countered. A siege weapon we can’t even see.

hopefully its an oversight of arenanet. this sounds redicilous and should be fixed.

They could easily make it so you cant deploy siege down there (same mechanic that stops players from deploying siege in their citadel). A well placed arrow cart will pretty much stop anyone from getting through there with no recourse but to use the retaliation mechanic to defeat the arrow cart.

When retaliation gets fixed (and it should be) there will be no way to get through against a single arrow cart.

Maybe more invisibility buff locations?

Just want to echo the siege issue, having to fight against well placed siege weapons makes it too easy for a few people to camp against any number of enemies.

That being said I think PvP over the jump puzzle is great. It brings back the style of PvP that got lost with WoW and subsequent MMO’s…real world PvP. Not sieges or competitive PvP…just people out trying to get something done and you in the way (or vice versa).

As for the people saying it’s griefing and terrible, take a deep breath. The chest at the end contains no unique items, no super rare items, really nothing special. It’s a cool bonus that generally nets you with some blues and a couple arrow carts, nothing you couldn’t get spending 15 minutes farming an Orr zone.

tl;dr, remove siege placement there, and people who are mad…just don’t go. You can get the same items in the same amount of time from other means.

Why is there even jumping puzzles in a pvp zone anyway?

Because its a PvPvE zone, not just a PvP zone, for pure pvp there is sPvP.

And anyway, its fun.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Its PvP. If you wanna do PvE dont join World vs World.

Simple.

Then why are PvE aspects in WvW like skill points and jumping puzzles ? I’m doing WvW only now for the 100% map completion, because for some reason Anet thought it would be an good idea too put a part into an PvP zone. Well anyway not every company is perfect and this is 1 point I find a bit dumb.

Want to know the best part, where they are camping. Its only like max 2min to the treasure chest, and the siege stuff you get is anything from 2x rams to MAX 1 golem + something else.
Camping the same spot like that should be punished. General pvp and using the trap system is fine.
Ruining for others while advancing the puzzle is also fine , but camping after you got your reward to ruin for others is known as griefing.

The main problem is getting into combat and slowing down to a speed where most of the jumps are impossible, paired with the length of time you stay in combat. The little arena room with mobs is impossible to get through if someone is camping above it.

This is griefing another server, not your own. Count yourself lucky that it wasn’t your own guys up there releasing the beasts.

That said, line of sight needs to be fixed on arrow carts, that is all. Wonder why they didn’t use ballistas? That’s why.

In this case, and this is entirely my opinion, they are exploiting a bug whereby you don’t have to leave your arrowcart in a position that is counterable (read: able to be attacked/killed). I think that at this point in the puzzle, if you could find a way to hit their AC with an AC that you built (the range of the AoE might just reach it), that’s about the only thing you could try, before giving up.

Now, if they fixed it to require LoS for arrowcarts, I’d imagine a lot of complaining would go around while trying to defend a keep or tower, not being able to use your defensive walls to shield your precious siege… to this I’d say, get over it. Learn to respect the siege equipment enough to place it well and defend it, not haphazardly placing it last-second in your last ditch attempt to save a tower that’s being sieged by dozens of attackers with your little 5-man team. Get real. Place the equipment prior to the point being attacked, defend it, repair it, etc. Most importantly, stick around to see that the objective, and any precious arrowcarts placed close to the edge, are saved, and used early to thin their numbers. Supply camps are the points that go back & forth quickly, not keeps (and to a degree towers). How many times have you seen important walls guarding orbs of power completely unmanned and neglected, while the fight raged elsewhere as a zerg? That behavior would diminish a lot if your ACs, like your ballista, had to be built on the edge to have LoS, because then you’d actually have to put forth a little effort to not ignore them (on the flipside, the zerg would get through quicker not having to deal with untouchable ACs).

Basically, though, my argument is that this lack of LoS is what they were banking on, in the jumping puzzle, and that’s the base cause, but I do agree it would be better off locked like it is in Citadels (which was the fix for untouchable trebuchets that people had built earlier in beta).

p.s. I need to echo the need for more Mystic Fountains, especially right after the dark room where you can’t use it. I don’t expect it, but it sure would be hell-a-nice to have invisibility at the very least available, even if you weren’t keen enough to use it at the time. Live & learn, and learn to counter these tactics.

Kelthos Doombringer.9032:

Never have I been so infuriated by something in my entire life.

Let me explain the situation. I’m doing the jumping puzzle, all well and good. Fall quite a few times in the dark room, it’s my 2nd time, 1st time getting to that part. I fought a couple people, feared people off of things (I’m a Necro).
Blah blah blah….

Really man?!

Kelthos “DOOMBRINGER”, let’s get something straight here since you’re are used to bringing on the carnage and doom, this is a PVP zone and it’s fun as hell too. Roll another game if you don’t like it and quit trying to change the game for the rest of us. Noone is going to agree with you here. So what if they camped it for 6 hours, do something else if you don’t have the numbers to over take them. Wow people will complain about anything.

What really takes the cake on this complaint, is you say you feared a couple people off things, well to them that’s griefing as well to a point right?! Hippocrit. It’s all part of the game and it’s part of this zone, it was meant to be like that. That’s why they give seige weapons at end, have controllable traps, etc. That’s why it’s so fun.

LOS on siege stuff is stupid since all classes got a AOE dot they drop and kill ur AC and voila – wasted coin and resources.

@bigfishcjp – Killing people while advancing and just plain camping is totaly diffrent. The guys he feared off can get back up and continue on while if you get camped you cant do anything.
They got the best view from the trap release spot, you cant destroy their AC’s and its impossible to get up there without getting killed. Not to mention you cant jump unless you get a perm speed buff since you are in combat all the time + crippling arrow kinda negates ur speed buff so ur still stuck down there.
As i said earlier, killing or ruining while you progress the puzzle is 1 thing but plain camping for the lulz should be punished.

Im guessing all of you that say its a pvp area or whatever excuse you pulled outa ur bum the last few posts. Is probably becouse you have never been stuck in that arena for hours on end, or you where one of the guys camping up there.

Lets be honest, i was in there last night helping to prevent enemies from finishing the puzzle.

why?

a couple of reasons,

1. badges…. if you can’t get it through your head that you will not beat us in PvP getting through (well, face it, none of us ever had to revive at a wp during the countless times that we jump down to fight).

2. Siege, we gain an advantage on the field by keeping people from getting FREE siege… did you know you can get trebs and golems from these puzzles?!?!? its great… if you can get to the end. it has traps to prevent people from getting there, it is designed to be extremely difficult to get through if someone wants to make it that way.

3. fun… face it, it was a fun time all night long to PvP in a seperate area that people assume is going to be “safe”.

some people gave us trouble… hell, i first got there me and a friend had to deal with some isle of janthir camping right at the start!!!! they built ballistas right on that little area where the beam of light shoots too with 1 way in 1 way out. know what we did?

pushed right into them, dodge rolled our faces off, and stability rushed….. only took 2 of us to kill all 4 of them because they decided staying on the siege was more important than fighting… that is how you get past this stuff…

as far as the siege in the circular room…. its not impossible, definately not, having to contend with retaliation guardians with arrow carts makes them useless… and les face it, we dont need siege, it just makes it more fun to get pvp kills that way.

TlDR, if you get stuck doing this puzzle for hours on end because you dont want to give up when someone prevents you from getting in, then you better learn to either get through, work your way up, or just give up… because at the end of the day, QQ would happen about why people cant do the jump puzzle if one faction owns ALL 3 keep entrances… that effectively prevents people from getting in, is this camping jump puzzles as well?

Seems a lot of tough people are all “don’t PVE in a PVP zone.” Got no problems with PVP. I deal with players easily in puzzles all the time. Being cheap and using siege that cannot be reached even if you manage to build your own siege (fat chance) is griefing.

I don’t care if I die to being out numbered even or they use the traps. But unable to progress at all due to the impossible nature to make jumps in combat to reach an unreachable siege engine is silly. Siege engines isn’t PVP skill. It’s point and click.

I find it funny many of the Eredon Terrace people defending their griefing actions because they can’t PVP properly. Since after playing against many servers, no other server has taken the jerk level as much as Eredon has. I visit the puzzles daily. Expecting some one there to fight usually. How ever, I find every puzzle in borderlands with Eredon Terrace camping at EVERY entrance waiting for you. Then there is this whole siege camping in the beast arena thing in EB that is always Eredon Terrace. It gets old.

I find it amusing they claim to have pvp skills when they are instead fighting and camping lower tier/lower population servers instead of facing HoD.

As was said above, simply make siege undeployable in the PvP jumping puzzle.

Seems like an easy fix, and would probably lead to some great fights.

(And may make the PvP puzzle the place to go for unobstructed duels).

while it’s a kitten move and I hate people who do it. It’s a valid tactic. The end reward chest grants 2 blueprints. Having done the jump puzzle plenty of times, im now starting to use those blueprints in WvWvW. Had a team prevented me from finishing the jump puzzle, I wouldnt have been able to use that siege (which in some cases meant the difference of capturing a keep or not [mine was the only siege there, and it was a very hasty zerg we put together])

During the 1 day battles it was kind of meh. But during the 7 day battles you have an opportunity to deny your enemies 14 free siege blueprints per battle, PER PERSON you stop. That’s a lot of free siege the enemies wont be getting if you shut them down in the sanctums. (especially the borderlands sanctums, you only need like 2-3 people camping those to keep everyone from doing them besides your own team)

Its a part of the game its fun and funny when its you doing it and crappy when its not but thats the way it goes.

There’s already plenty of traps down there. The people above already have a huge advantage. Siege-weapons are overkill.

There are so many fanboys in this thread, it is truly ridiculous. I’m okay with people fighting and doing PvP in the jump puzzles, I mean, yeah, it’s a PvP zone. Camping where it is impossible for you to die just to screw other people should not be okay. They should add traps to the other side just to kill people who are camping. It sucks all the fun out of it to be going along and then haha oops I’m dead because there’s 6 guys camping in a spot with such a great advantage we’d need the entire server to attack at once.

Jumping puzzles in WvW zones were fully intended for PvP to happen. That is why the eternal battlegrounds has traps in it that players can activate. That is why the entrance to the Borderlands Puzzle is conveniently located at the end of a big fall (where you can be knocked back into the water). PvP happens, People like to PvP with surprise attacks and most especially, they like to kill PvEr’s that wander into PvP areas.

Those 6 guys camping that spot probably wait between 10-15m between encounters and they are not doing their Server any favors because they are wasting valuable resources (People are a resource in WvW, People that don’t contribute to defence, assault or control are a wasted resource)

Three of us did this puzzle this afternoon. Same story , eredon guys at top of pit dropping arrows and dumping cages. I was able to pull them both over the edge with my focus. Messier skill. Funny thing was there guild name was “jumping puzzle griefing guild”.

We beat there kittens once they were in the pit with us. But it shouldnt take a special skill or class to be able to defeat that. Seems like a poor form of entertainment, but I guess different people like to do different things for fun…

Siege shouldn’t be deployed in the jumping puzzle. Waste’s more people’s time who should be out there fighting in the actual battles on the map.

3 sorrows furnace in the pit
im a dual dagger ele
there is no way to fight against them

No dual dagger skill reaches up there. You cant see them before you enter the room so now you are stuck in there. Oh and I cant grip people down. OR change weapon because im in combat and ele’s dont have weapon switch.

I finally make it up by literally waiting 15 seconds at each jump so I can have swiftness (only way to make it) and then im just gangbanged by 3 people.

Im fine with them being there. But not with it being literally IMPOSSIBLE to kill them.

It’s like assaulting a keep, except my path up there is blocked because im in combat, and I cant ever back off to heal, and I get no siege weapons.
Do you see how this might be an issue?

PvP inside the jump puzzle is harder than PvP outside simply because of the giant advantage the “Defenders” get

I want to get to a vista that’s located in an enemy keep, but I can’t because they keep killing me every time I try to beat down the doors and get inside. Griefers!

It’s a WvW zone for a reason, and you can’t “grief” someone who is an enemy in WvW outside of plain cheating. You’re an enemy, their goal is to kill you, it doesn’t matter where, it doesn’t matter if you’re afk, unarmed, not wearing any armor, you’re putting yourself in a position where you can be killed, and then getting upset when it happens.

If you don’t want to participate in getting slaughtered, go elsewhere until they get sick of it and leave. Going back and feeding them just prolongs the whole thing.

I’m surprised that people actually think it’s reasonable to apply completely arbitrary restrictions on where and when people can kill you in WvW without being considered “Griefing” (e.g. only when you’re doing the puzzle yourself).

I guess this rules out cutting off reinforcements to a keep, or trying to pen enemies in their starting keep, or killing supply just because it’s there. Should we only be permitted to move directly from objective to objective, disregarding strategy, diversionary tactics, or anything else for fear of “griefing” someone in an area where player vs player is to be expected?

Yeah it sucks what happened, but unless they’re actually cheating, complaining about it with the intent that “this needs changing” is just going to make you sound ridiculous.

Comparing it with a vista in a keep misses the point so hilariously, I can’t help but laugh.

Treize.7026:

I want to get to a vista that’s located in an enemy keep, but I can’t because they keep killing me every time I try to beat down the doors and get inside. Griefers!

It’s a WvW zone for a reason, and you can’t “grief” someone who is an enemy in WvW outside of plain cheating. You’re an enemy, their goal is to kill you, it doesn’t matter where, it doesn’t matter if you’re afk, unarmed, not wearing any armor, you’re putting yourself in a position where you can be killed, and then getting upset when it happens.

If you don’t want to participate in getting slaughtered, go elsewhere until they get sick of it and leave. Going back and feeding them just prolongs the whole thing.

I’m surprised that people actually think it’s reasonable to apply completely arbitrary restrictions on where and when people can kill you in WvW without being considered “Griefing” (e.g. only when you’re doing the puzzle yourself).

I guess this rules out cutting off reinforcements to a keep, or trying to pen enemies in their starting keep, or killing supply just because it’s there. Should we only be permitted to move directly from objective to objective, disregarding strategy, diversionary tactics, or anything else for fear of “griefing” someone in an area where player vs player is to be expected?

Yeah it sucks what happened, but unless they’re actually cheating, complaining about it with the intent that “this needs changing” is just going to make you sound ridiculous.

Keep walls can be knocked down. The only tactic for siege camping in EB puzzle is to come back another time and hope you didn’t waste another 20 minutes to get back to the beast arena to find out they’re still camping it.

If by some miracle you do actually kill the people on the siege. I’m sure Eredon Terrace will declare hax.

oh god no PVP in a PVP zone

tbh sounds like a valid tactic to stop the enemy from getting free blueprints/gear

cry moar, carebear tears give me strength

Zay.6357:

Comparing it with a vista in a keep misses the point so hilariously, I can’t help but laugh.

How is that missing the point? Both incidents involve getting upset because someone wants to do something non-PvP related without fear of death in a PvP zone.

Valid comparison or not, the fact remains you enter WvW, you immediately lose your right to complain if someone kills you. Why do you think non-PvP objectives were added to WvW in the first place? I’m going to guess it’s to add more locations where people are naturally brought together to fight over an objective. If it’s “Impossible” to get to the dudes running siege due to the speed loss in combat, I’ll agree that should be fixed, but even if it was, the people up top would just focus more on knocking people off, and the same people would be complaining that this sort of thing is occurring.

Think the problem people are trying to hammer across is they have no problem dying in PVP in a PVP zone.

They have a problem with being kept in combat, making the jumps impossible to make the distance. With no way to counter other than flukes.

use retaliation before it is nerfed.
but this is an example why retaliation is needed

aeroh.8930:

NixZero.7540:

pvp zone, people will kill you.

somehow I don’t think the devs intended for people to spend 5 hours camping it with siege equipment

And why would they not intend this? PVP/Siege warfare is the whole point of that map. Just be thankful you babies were not playing during early UO/EQ pvp. How about having your corpse camped for days…. Your tears make me laugh.

PvP happening in a PvP area … well imagine that.

It’s not griefing. Griefing would be stopping you from doing something in a zone or area where there are rules in place for that …. There are no rules in WvW.

If you step foot in any of those maps then expect to be killed, that’s the idea behind them. They are not for folks to go skipping on their merry way doing jumping puzzles while the other 2 realms wave at them.

kriegerdeath.2053:

And why would they not intend this? PVP/Siege warfare is the whole point of that map. Just be thankful you babies were not playing during early UO/EQ pvp. How about having your corpse camped for days…. Your tears make me laugh.

Because Anet hates griefing and camping, and this is both.

Anet has gone out of their way to minimize griefing in this game in all its facets. This is the reason you can’t kill steal from someone, for example, or take their crafting resource while they’re busy fighting something next to a mineral node. It’s the reason they downscale you in pve and upscale you in pvp. It’s the reason we’re all anonymous to enemy realms in WvWvW.

aeroh.8930:

kriegerdeath.2053:

And why would they not intend this? PVP/Siege warfare is the whole point of that map. Just be thankful you babies were not playing during early UO/EQ pvp. How about having your corpse camped for days…. Your tears make me laugh.

Because Anet hates griefing and camping, and this is both.

Anet has gone out of their way to minimize griefing in this game in all its facets. This is the reason you can’t kill steal from someone, for example, or take their crafting resource while they’re busy fighting something next to a mineral node. It’s the reason they downscale you in pve and upscale you in pvp. It’s the reason we’re all anonymous to enemy realms in WvWvW.

Use /m or /t and get some buddy’s to help clear them out. Killing players in wvwvw actually benefits you. Too many good pvp games have been ruined by dev’s listening to the vocal minority crying over things that can be controlled by players. you have NO RIGHT to waltz into a pvp zone and do a jumping puzzle unhindered. Get some friends, might makes right.

Please tell us how you would get by the campers if you were in the thread creators position, in as much detail as you can.

Anet didn’t even try to balance WvW. We all need to accept that.

aeroh.8930:

Please tell us how you would get by the campers if you were in the thread creators position, in as much detail as you can.

bring an elementalist or two
have them get swiftness when they switch to air (arcana trait)
have them make the jumps (doable in combat with swiftness. I would know)
when they get to the last jump along the path use ride the lightning to speed it up.

Either kill the enemy campers, or distract them for as long as possible so your team can climb up

the easier way:
necromancers and mesmer using pull skills

It’s pretty stupid to fight against. especially if you dont ever have teammates in the jump puzzle like my server. But it is theoretically doable.

Zenyatoo.4059:

aeroh.8930:

Please tell us how you would get by the campers if you were in the thread creators position, in as much detail as you can.

bring an elementalist or two
have them get swiftness when they switch to air (arcana trait)
have them make the jumps (doable in combat with swiftness. I would know)
when they get to the last jump along the path use ride the lightning to speed it up.

Either kill the enemy campers, or distract them for as long as possible so your team can climb up

the easier way:
necromancers and mesmer using pull skills

It’s pretty stupid to fight against. especially if you dont ever have teammates in the jump puzzle like my server. But it is theoretically doable.

Necromancers and mesmers can’t pull what they can’t reach – players hiding LOS with siege weapons.

Bring an elementalist? Cast swiftness? Get a team together up there? Cool! Despite likely dying before reaching the top and multi-arrow cart cripple negating the swiftness. Let’s say the enemies camping have the same level of organization since we’re dealing in “theory”. Triple catapult. GG.

Kelthos Doombringer.9032:

@Mishi
Right, you mean the Stealth right after the log trap? The one that lasts 4 minutes? It also gets deactivated by dmg. I can’t avoid an arrow cart spamming 1 area.

You wouldn’t be able to avoid the damage even if there were no Arrow carts and they were just spamming AOE skills on you either.

Though popping retaliation and watching the arrow carts kill themselves could have been a decent option.

The secret to getting past 3 to 4 good players is to just bring 15, that worked well for SoS, after about an hour of struggling they finally got up when they were reviving each other faster than we could down them.