Guild Wars 2

First a little background story:
So my friends and I have been doing the puzzle fairly regularly since we discovered it a a few weeks ago. In the early stages not a ton of people knew about it so most people didn’t bother fighting each other, the puzzle took about 20 minutes and most people left immediately after getting it. That brings us to my experience this weekend (Sunday), upon entering the puzzle my friends and I instantly see enemies from teh other servers (for now known as X and Y). Server x instantly attacks us and we fight back killing them. Server Y just kind of stands around and waves. We decide to leave Y alone and proceed. That particular night I was having a huge issue with the dark room and it took me about 15 mintues to get through. In that time all the members of Server Y made it out and, I assume finished the puzzle. Once I was done, my friends and I exit to realize that those ‘nice guys’ from server Y are sitting on top of the arena releasing animals and bombarding us. It takes approximately 2 hours for my friends and i to finally kill the server Y people and finish our puzzle. From then on we declared war upon this server and now instantly kill them on sight. That brings us to yesterday, we are again paired against server Y and some other server. Before even entering the puzzle we hear that Server Y is giving people trouble in the puzzle so we head in to scope it out. Turns out that this server has built a ballista about half way to the dark room on top of a cliff. From their position 2 people with a ballista could have probably held out against 30 others no problem. Seeing no way to progress in the puzzle itself my friends and I decide 2 can play at this game and we build and arrow cart at the entrance to the puzzle. We then proceed to kill every member of the enemy servers that come in over and over, I’m positive we killed some ranger from server Y about 10 times. Eventually enough allies come through our portal that we can proceed the enemies on the ballista had left (or been killed somehow) and we finished the puzzle.

Now for the suggestions/problems:
Problems:
1) When you get the chest you can back track to any early point of the puzzle and camp
2) You can build Siege weapons in an underground puzzle with 1 progression route
3)There are a number of points in the puzzle where 2 people can stop progression of 10-20 enemies

Suggestions:
1) Upon looting the chest players are forced to leave and the zone is closed to them. This means people wanting to stop others have to choose to do so before competing the puzzle themselves. Meaning they risk getting over ran and killed and losing their chance to finish themselves. It also forces players back to eternal which means they have to actually help with WvW (the whole point of the zone) or leave.

2) Siege weapons are silly, either make multiple routes to the end or prevent siege from being built in the puzzle area, I don’t mind a good natured PVP fight but jumping across tiny rock walls while being pelted with ballistas doing thousands of damage and slowing me isn’t exactly ‘good natured’

3) See suggestion 2.

TL;DR – People spend way to much time/It is too easy to camp the eternal BG jumping puzzle. Upon looting the chest players should be forced to leave. This promotes players actually participating in WvW instead of hiding underground for hours on end. Siege weapons make certain parts of a 1-route puzzle impossible to proceed through.

I definitely agree. I know people are gonna state that it’s just how it’s supposed to be in WvWvW since the chest does give blueprints and badges. The way it is now, it typically turns out to be a “who can sit here the longest” match.

Completely agree. The opportunity to grief is too great currently. I would even suggest to take out PvP in the jumping puzzle, but leave in the traps and maybe add traps that force you to restart that section of the puzzle, i.e. trap doors or mines that knockback.

I have to agree. Every time I get to the arena 3-6 people are camping the top so you can’t get past. I really enjoy the jumping puzzles but the WvW ones being as they are right now make it hard to have fun.

I do like your the idea of booting people from the puzzle if they’ve finished it and not having siege weapons there. Thought of some others that could work too.
1) Once you’ve had so many player kills it boots you from the puzzle and you have to wait before you can go back in.
2) They could give us another mystic fountain around the darkroom so we can get past the arena if someone is camping the top.
3) Mystic Fountain affect could last longer or (for people who haven’t beaten it the first time) be infinite for the puzzle.
4) Traps use charges to work and players only have so many during the puzzle.
5) If not #4 make it so players get a charge every time they use a trap and after so many charges they are hit with an AoE attack that could kill or paralyze all allies within range.

You are in a pvp map. So you should expect pvp.

ANet, please do not change the way this jumping puzzle works. There are PLENTY of jumping puzzles in the regular world where you can go through and not be bothered by other players.

WvW is supposed to be a knock-down drag-out war between three servers…and I honestly think that stopping those servers from getting two potentially very powerful siege weapons is a valid tactic. If one server takes over the Sanctum, then guess what? Oh well…you should have got there first, or maybe bring a posse large enough to take it back.

There are also plenty of things in the sanctum that will help you get through even with other people in there. My buddy and I got past some invaders camping the entrance the other day by using one of the aforementioned things…we got ahead of them, and you better believe we didn’t let them up.

I dunno, I think that locking that puzzle down is part of the fun. I don’t fault other servers for repeatedly killing me when I try to get in…that’s the game.

Guess what I’m saying is:

If you can’t stand the heat, get out of the fire.

Divinorium.8952:

You are in a pvp map. So you should expect pvp.

This isn’t pvp that they are talking about. This is essentially trap griefing. It actually PREVENTS pvp.

What they should do is put a cooldown on those trap triggers so one server can only trigger the trap every x amount of time. Giving the trapped player(s) a chance to get over to the people from the other server and kill them.

Also absolutely no seige equipment should be able to be used in the puzzle grounds. Thats just silly.

I like the idea of the pvp puzzle, but if they want it to be pvp it should be actually pvp, not just one side griefing another group of players that quite literally can’t do anything about it.

Pretty sure arenanet will change this anyways.

They should never have put the trap triggers after the jumping part but before. That or they should add instant kill trap triggers somewhere before the jumping part that targets the people near the current trap commands.

And remove the stupid move speed reduction in combat in those parts.

Red= dead, your first mistake was to overlook an enemy. Second of they can do it so can you. Third its PVP, so expect to have a hard time against enemies, especially in a place like the jumping puzzle.

stof.9341:

They should never have put the trap triggers after the jumping part but before. That or they should add instant kill trap triggers somewhere before the jumping part that targets the people near the current trap commands.

And remove the stupid move speed reduction in combat in those parts.

I really think the constant threat of other players screwing you and having to go back to the beginning, and the knowledge that you will be able to get revenge on your enemies and do the same if you get to the end is what makes the puzzle so thrilling.

I can see them removing the ability to put down ballistas, just because there is literally nothing that the other servers can do about them given the landscape. But everything else should be fair game.

The puzzle is not meant to be easy, and the rewards are nice. It’s also completely optional…so if you can’t get past the other server in there, you can just leave and do something else. You can probably get enough gold or badges to just get whatever siege weapon you wanted without too much difficulty…and there are THREE other WvW jumping puzzles you can do as well.

In addition, it’s really the only thing in the game that i think can be considered a “competitive dungeon” and I really hope it’s left the way it is for players that enjoy it. I constantly go to the Eternal puzzle just because I like the high stakes experience it offers.

And if you were wondering, yes, I have camped traps and such and prevented other players from getting through for fairly long periods of time, and I’m not ashamed of this at all..it’s part of the game. In each case though, they eventually get me by pulling me down with something, or using a skill like Ride the Lightning to get to me before I can knock them off.

Creslin.1758:

I really think the constant threat of other players screwing you and having to go back to the beginning, and the knowledge that you will be able to get revenge on your enemies and do the same if you get to the end is what makes the puzzle so thrilling.

I can see them removing the ability to put down ballistas, just because there is literally nothing that the other servers can do about them given the landscape. But everything else should be fair game.

The puzzle is not meant to be easy, and the rewards are nice. It’s also completely optional…so if you can’t get past the other server in there, you can just leave and do something else. You can probably get enough gold or badges to just get whatever siege weapon you wanted without too much difficulty…and there are THREE other WvW jumping puzzles you can do as well.

In addition, it’s really the only thing in the game that i think can be considered a “competitive dungeon” and I really hope it’s left the way it is for players that enjoy it. I constantly go to the Eternal puzzle just because I like the high stakes experience it offers.

And if you were wondering, yes, I have camped traps and such and prevented other players from getting through for fairly long periods of time, and I’m not ashamed of this at all..it’s part of the game. In each case though, they eventually get me by pulling me down with something, or using a skill like Ride the Lightning to get to me before I can knock them off.

Not everyone has pulls and the like. In fact only necro and thief have them. Also, the simple notion of jumping puzzle along the in combat snare don’t mix well together. All in all, it’s too easy to prevent progression through the puzzle despite very unfavorable numbers because of all that.

Ganking people on the way is part of the deal but the odds are far too much stacked in favor of the player before you. I don’t think the plan was to have people camp that place constantly instead of going for the loot at the end and having some fun with the people on the way. Yet that’s obviously what happens.

It’s in a pvp zone, the traps are there for a reason, and anything else is fair game as well. It’s really no different from people camping just behind the waterfall in the borderlands puzzles.

stof.9341:

Creslin.1758:

I really think the constant threat of other players screwing you and having to go back to the beginning, and the knowledge that you will be able to get revenge on your enemies and do the same if you get to the end is what makes the puzzle so thrilling.

I can see them removing the ability to put down ballistas, just because there is literally nothing that the other servers can do about them given the landscape. But everything else should be fair game.

The puzzle is not meant to be easy, and the rewards are nice. It’s also completely optional…so if you can’t get past the other server in there, you can just leave and do something else. You can probably get enough gold or badges to just get whatever siege weapon you wanted without too much difficulty…and there are THREE other WvW jumping puzzles you can do as well.

In addition, it’s really the only thing in the game that i think can be considered a “competitive dungeon” and I really hope it’s left the way it is for players that enjoy it. I constantly go to the Eternal puzzle just because I like the high stakes experience it offers.

And if you were wondering, yes, I have camped traps and such and prevented other players from getting through for fairly long periods of time, and I’m not ashamed of this at all..it’s part of the game. In each case though, they eventually get me by pulling me down with something, or using a skill like Ride the Lightning to get to me before I can knock them off.

Not everyone has pulls and the like. In fact only necro and thief have them. Also, the simple notion of jumping puzzle along the in combat snare don’t mix well together. All in all, it’s too easy to prevent progression through the puzzle despite very unfavorable numbers because of all that.

Ganking people on the way is part of the deal but the odds are far too much stacked in favor of the player before you. I don’t think the plan was to have people camp that place constantly instead of going for the loot at the end and having some fun with the people on the way. Yet that’s obviously what happens.

I am neither necro nor thief, yet I have what may be the best pull in the game.

I think we just view this differently. You see it as a jumping puzzle that you should be able to go through and complete. Maybe some players will slow you down, but you should still be able to complete it.

I see it as a fun jumping puzzle, but also a place with valuable resources that my enemy servers can get and use against me. And I see nothing wrong with denying them that, or confounding them until they decide to leave.

Vayra.3290:

It’s in a pvp zone, the traps are there for a reason, and anything else is fair game as well. It’s really no different from people camping just behind the waterfall in the borderlands puzzles.

There are ways to do it that make it right. Making it so that you need a zerg to remove a single player isn’t exactly right. If you want to camp the place, I’m fine with it. But only if you show some real PvP skills, not hiding behind one hit kill traps or impossible to do jumps due to combat snare effect.

Sure its different. With the traps there is nothing you can do to stop it. With the guy sitting behind the waterfall, you can kill him. One is pvp, the other is griefing. Big difference.

Bottom line, if the people can’t do anything about it within a reasonable amount of time, then it shouldn’t happen. Like you shouldn’t be able to just sit on the trap platform and just kill people without them having any chance to do anything about it. If there was a cooldown, then yea they can get you once with each trap, but you have enough time to get over to the platform and make them pay for it. Thats pvp.

stof.9341:

Vayra.3290:

It’s in a pvp zone, the traps are there for a reason, and anything else is fair game as well. It’s really no different from people camping just behind the waterfall in the borderlands puzzles.

There are ways to do it that make it right. Making it so that you need a zerg to remove a single player isn’t exactly right. If you want to camp the place, I’m fine with it. But only if you show some real PvP skills, not hiding behind one hit kill traps or impossible to do jumps due to combat snare effect.

Ironically, the place where I am most effectively able to deny people from moving forward has nothing to do with traps.

Khellendros.2851:

Sure its different. With the traps there is nothing you can do to stop it. With the guy sitting behind the waterfall, you can kill him. One is pvp, the other is griefing. Big difference.

Bottom line, if the people can’t do anything about it within a reasonable amount of time, then it shouldn’t happen. Like you shouldn’t be able to just sit on the trap platform and just kill people without them having any chance to do anything about it. If there was a cooldown, then yea they can get you once with each trap, but you have enough time to get over to the platform and make them pay for it. Thats pvp.

Yes, kill 2-3 people solo when you are on 20% health after the jump (unless you are one of the classes with reduced fall damage traits), very likely.

Khellendros.2851:

Sure its different. With the traps there is nothing you can do to stop it. With the guy sitting behind the waterfall, you can kill him. One is pvp, the other is griefing. Big difference.

Bottom line, if the people can’t do anything about it within a reasonable amount of time, then it shouldn’t happen. Like you shouldn’t be able to just sit on the trap platform and just kill people without them having any chance to do anything about it. If there was a cooldown, then yea they can get you once with each trap, but you have enough time to get over to the platform and make them pay for it. Thats pvp.

I just don’t think this philosophy works in WvW.

I’m on one of the lower ranked servers, and a lot of times we get matched up against servers that just crush us because of superior numbers. A lot of the time, we won’t be able to take such and such keep no matter how hard we try. Should we be allowed to take it if we try long enough? No, of course not.

The same thing applies to the jumping puzzle. If another server gets in there and has people defending the top, then you guys aren’t getting through…unless you know how to use your skills to outwit the other person (there are ways).

I almost see the jumping puzzle as a kind of equalizer. Even though the other servers constantly have greater numbers in the field…in the jumping puzzle, that doesn’t matter so much. If you have 5 people trying to jump up, I can stop them all.