Guild Wars 2

Dodge rolling a big move is on of the most skillful things you can do in this game. So, I guess 25v25 is very skillful since you are going to dodge a big move almost every time you dodge roll.

Hell, players in 25v25 can dodge roll big moves with their eyes shut, I bet.

Pannonica.5378:

Reduktion.5791:

I m rly not impressed anymore of watching a new video of … whatever. If i would make videos of my turns around the map, i had enough stuff to make laugh the whole community here about some of these SUPER-MEGA-ULTRA-HIGH Guilds, Players, Skills, Classes … whatever. And if i see one single RG Member, i know – its a dead certain 1:0 for me! Thats the truth. But i dont will see that all the everlasting untalented guys are rerolling my class or post some topics to disparage my class because of my videos, i will go without this doubtful fame.

Indeed the mythos of RG works only, and rly only with massiv zerg support. And guilds like RG is, have of course high amount of membership. Sry but i have seen a great number of guilds with better individual players. Just sIN is one of these …

ps. my home is sfr
pps. i was just wondering where are the videos of RG wipes against [VcY] yesterday night … and i m not a member of this guild – Your videos are only a big glow. Well enjoy the good press …

I congratulate you on never dying.
We never stated single RG members would never die and stomp everyone 1v1.
So all that your comment proves is that you think you have two big Kittens (and probably one tiny Kitten, which comes naturally with two big Kittens), nothing more. Moving on…

actually it should be normal that they die since i guess they run builds for groupfights, dont they?^^

Yaro.3251:

Bunzy.8674:

This is just whoever positions the best, not very entertaining from a skill based point of view.

It is also crucial, but there’s much more to it than just positioning and movement.

So positioning and coordination I can agree on, but what else? Can you explain to me.

All the same things as in other PvP activities. I wouldn’t argue that intensity of personal micro in battles at scale is less than that of small-scale fights. It’s just that I have an issue with “black and white” point of view (small scale is all skill, while large scale is all blind AoE). You can faceroll your way through quick joins and can even win considerable amount of duels/small scale fights if you are against the guy of same level of micro. It doesn’t mean this will work against serious opponent.

I for one am of the opinion that a good sPvP background is prerequisite for a great GvG player.

saVdoom.2067:

Zumos.2056:

It is unfair to say that large scale combat is skilless, certainly if you have only limited (or none even) experience yourself. Obviously it is a completely different kind of skill than small scale combat, which btw I’m sure that both Red Guard and Za Drots can do as well. The problem is that small scale combat is related to sPvP too much, and sPvP is really not popular at all at not only RG, but many guilds I know from WAR as well.

Its pretty much exact same as in WAR. Some groups/guilds/players would rather focus in small 6 man groups doing scenarios or roaming against the zerg. And some other guilds/players focused on having full warbands of 24 people bombing the kitten out of each other.

I guess the general consensus is that i’d always take into my “WvW” any “sPvP” player because he’s used to much faster reaction and knows his class and all others very well (since it is required in high end spvp), and then its an issue of discipline and support build. But I wouldn’t take any “WvW” scale player into my sPvP team. Not saying both have their skillfull plays and so on, but large scale is much more about coordination, discipline, support focused builds and… pc hardware to handle all the aoe spam ;p rather then individual player skill.

I would agree if our large scale players had no small scale skill. Though certainly most Red Guard (and prolly all good large scale guild) have a lot of experience in small scale aswell. To take myself, I played small scale in WAR and I also do solo roaming in WvW.

earendil.1290:

I think the issue here is mostly by comparing your player made version of GW2 GvG to the GvG of GW1.

Your version is basically – army vs army straight fight. It’s about coordinating skills to down your enemies. Back in GW1 GvG there were many other objectives, alternate strategies and so on.

Also – the number of light effects makes it harder for the viewer. Back in GW1 GvG when you were watching a TV fight, you could select one of the players and follow him – then easily understand what everyone was doing. Cant do that on a player made video.

Not your fault – it’s still the closest thing you have to GvG. But it is, in fact, only a massive version of the 1vs1 or 4 vs 4 arenas (with no side objectives). Takes skill to do it for sure – but not as entertaining for the viewer.

I have to completely agree with you, for someone who has limited experience in WvW these videos are a hell to watch with all the ground targeted skills. And I would love to have some better small scale fighting that the current sPvP , which IMO is the biggest fail of the whole game. I think a 10 vs 10 would be more organised to watch, but still have the same ‘kind’ of skill as the 20 -30 vs 20-30. That is something we could test.

All i done more or less for 5 years was Arena’s and Battlegrounds this game doesn’t cut it for me and is knowhere near the standard i am looking for personally. I prefer deathmatch not cap BGs. That is why i am doing a lot of Wvwvw at the moment, the structured is really not what i hoped it to be in this game.

There are a lot of people in Red Guard ex Arena/Structured/small scale/bg players it’s just not that good in this game.

Oozo.7856:

Dodge rolling a big move is on of the most skillful things you can do in this game. So, I guess 25v25 is very skillful since you are going to dodge a big move almost every time you dodge roll.

Hell, players in 25v25 can dodge roll big moves with their eyes shut, I bet.

As well as reactive interrupts and blinds. Running forward, hitting all your shouts, and spamming the 1 key? This is why people hate the upper tiers. So kitten boring.

Skill level required and complexity of play in gw2 is extremely low. Unfortunately, the average entitled gamer wants to be able to 1,2,1,2,1,2 and pwn face in a game instead of learning how to play well in order to succeed.

Big 20+ vs 20+ fights factor in less skill than smaller scale engagements. All it involves is discipline and running certain builds that benefit large zergy blobs. I’ve watched RG and other guilds in action, they look like a group of bots. No individuality, it’s just timings of portals, mass invis / hidden veils (to get an advantage from culling) and then spamming AoE. Sure some reactive play may come into it if people want to try and use reflection heavy techniques or confusion bombing. But mostly it boils down to0…who can AoE the most, or who can gain the advantage from the quite frankly broken rendering engine.

But, whatever floats your boat. I personally don’t get the whole follow the blue dot like a robot thing, but some people obviously do get enjoyment from it. But then again, I’ve moved off Piken with some other guilds and am now enjoying less zergy smaller scale engagements.

But best of luck to those still on Pikey, it’s just a shame it’s become so zergy.

Most of the success from a 30v30 guild zerg will come from positioning, build synergy, and leadership. If the leader makes good calls and the others follow those calls promptly then they should do well.

Comparing 30v30 with 5v5 or 10v10 is pointless. They require different skill sets, but still have a lot in common as far as benefitting from good leadership, movement, and positioning. There is actually even a significant difference between 5v5 and 10v10 as well.

A well-rounded player should be good at all three and also 1v1 (as far as their class/build can take them anyway).

Generally speaking, someone who is good at 1v1, 5v5, and 10v10 should have no problem being good at 30v30. That is not true the other way around. I guarantee you that there are people in 30man teams that mouseclick abilities and/or don’t get the most out of their abilities. They can hide in the larger numbers but they would be quickly exposed in a 5v5.

Oozo.7856:

I guarantee you that there are people in 30man teams that mouseclick abilities and/or don’t get the most out of their abilities. They can hide in the larger numbers but they would be quickly exposed in a 5v5.

In any fairly even GvG fight, you should expect to at some point be in a tricky spot. Whether you’re stunned, pulled into the enemy, cut off from your leader with CC or whatever, if you’re in a fight against a solid guild, something like this is going to happen at least once. For your guild to win, you need to know how to get out of those situations alive. You might have a very short time to react, since the enemy can take someone from 100% to downed in under a second. You need to react to the danger, escape it, and get back to your job as quickly as possible.

People “hiding” in larger numbers will get found out in no time when facing a solid guild in GvG. They die right at the beginning of the fight, precisely because all they can do is follow the leader. The moment the enemy stops them from doing that, they’ve got no answers. Just one of these players can cost a guild a victory, in a sufficiently tight match.

Loco.4561:

Big 20+ vs 20+ fights factor in less skill than smaller scale engagements. All it involves is discipline and running certain builds that benefit large zergy blobs. I’ve watched RG and other guilds in action, they look like a group of bots. No individuality, it’s just timings of portals, mass invis / hidden veils (to get an advantage from culling) and then spamming AoE. Sure some reactive play may come into it if people want to try and use reflection heavy techniques or confusion bombing. But mostly it boils down to0…who can AoE the most, or who can gain the advantage from the quite frankly broken rendering engine.

But, whatever floats your boat. I personally don’t get the whole follow the blue dot like a robot thing, but some people obviously do get enjoyment from it. But then again, I’ve moved off Piken with some other guilds and am now enjoying less zergy smaller scale engagements.

But best of luck to those still on Pikey, it’s just a shame it’s become so zergy.

Sorry for over-quoting, but I’m too lazy to break it down to smaller pieces.

Winning strategy in any kinds of battles depends (among other things) on what your opponent looks and acts like. WvW by its nature favors large scale (btw 20 vs 20 is not really a big fight in terms of WvW, at least in upper tiers). If you find a better strategy for such environment than accumulating same numbers as enemy has or more and just pushing them around like a giant magnet pushes another magnet, by all means, use it.

Some of guilds found such strategies that work currently best (which you can collectively call “melee train”) and use them quite successfully destroying enemies in numbers as big as a single map can hold while being heavily outnumbered. And 20-25 number is more or less just an empirical minimum of what a skilled group should have to have decent chances of success while taking on tasks of any complexity in WvW.

It still involves “follow the blue dot” as a basic axiom but it very well can change as game progresses.

Large scale in GW2 has so many variables that by no means at this point you can call it mature and settled, and then say what it is exactly that is required.

Now if the comments would change “requires” to “shows most of the time”, I would completely agree. But hey, it requires as much skill as you can show.

Oozo.7856:

Generally speaking, someone who is good at 1v1, 5v5, and 10v10 should have no problem being good at 30v30. That is not true the other way around. I guarantee you that there are people in 30man teams that mouseclick abilities and/or don’t get the most out of their abilities. They can hide in the larger numbers but they would be quickly exposed in a 5v5.

Nah that is fallacy. They wouldn’t be good in 30v30 if they did that, they would be bad. In fact they would be bad at anything they did.

I have seen all aspects of play in MMOs, from soloing, duoing, 8 man gank groups, farming zergs in both daoc/war, and in this game as well and have been highly successful. Each and every facet of game play has its own intricacies in each and every single game. Even though this game requires less in the way of skill due to simplistic game play, doesn’t mean that just because you are good in one area that the skill will translate to another area directly. Anyone that says otherwise is quite clueless when it comes to understanding what it takes to play at a high level.

Those videos were amazing. I’m far from T1, and T8 doesn’t have any guilds that could even come close to this coordination.

You have my applause.

is this really fun for people? a mess where no one can see wtf is happening. everyone just spam whatever they have and hopes they hit something.

Hecksa.7140:

People “hiding” in larger numbers will get found out in no time when facing a solid guild in GvG. They die right at the beginning of the fight, precisely because all they can do is follow the leader. The moment the enemy stops them from doing that, they’ve got no answers. Just one of these players can cost a guild a victory, in a sufficiently tight match.

I do understand it happens, but its just not as much as when in smaller scale / spvp.

Example: as a mesmer in a large scale fights such as shown in the video.. if by any chance you’re caught off position and get stunned by static field and you’re about to get rolled over the main melee train, blink will save your life into your own’s melee train where you’ll be healed/cleansed, and you’ll probably have a thief splashing into those healing fields. Or you pop distortion for a second and dodge roll once or twice to get the kitten out.

In sPvP if you’re a mesmer, say, holding side point and you’re fighting the elementalist who is keeping you from capping it and a backstab thief comes to aid the elementalist to burst you down.. you have literally a very, very small chance of surviving unless you manage to breakstun as soon as he pops on you with mirror images or something of the sort. All while trying to dodge the ele’s crowd control who will probably time his cc with the thief’s burst, while as well trying to stay somehow on the point to stop them from capping it.. and all the while screaming at your team to come support you as well.

All i’m saying is moments where a small mistake or miss-timing in your cooldowns will get you dead happens much more often when you do not depend on so many others since you’re basically on your own to survive.

Btw, i play a mesmer as well both in sPvP, tPvP paids/freebies and wvw ~15 man groups, so i’m talking from my own experience.

vespers.1759:

is this really fun for people? a mess where no one can see wtf is happening. everyone just spam whatever they have and hopes they hit something.

I’d love to see one of these videos with a quality commentary. When I just started taking part in GvG, it was a real eye opener for me to hear in details from a skilled mate what was actually going on on the screen when we were looking at the same RG video. Before that moment, I was basically of the same opinion.

@pedrst.3127, I think nobody would argue with that. Particulary as a mesmer in a train, you usually “outsource” some of your survivability, while providing in turn essential and unique support skills. On the other hand, in a train small mistake in timing or aiming of your skills, depending on your class and role, will get dead a lot more than just you

Which server is RG based now a days? I’m hearing conflicting rumors >3< NA? EU?

Sovereign.1093:

Which server is RG based now a days? I’m hearing conflicting rumors >3< NA? EU?

We’re on Piken Square right now, as we have been since free transfers closed. Za Drots is on Seafarer’s Rest.

Intigo.1653:

Sovereign.1093:

Which server is RG based now a days? I’m hearing conflicting rumors >3< NA? EU?

We’re on Piken Square right now, as we have been since free transfers closed. Za Drots is on Seafarer’s Rest.

i see. Thanks. ^,..,^

Post more videos.

What this video high lights is the true power of AoE confusion fields + blast finishers + AoE cc.

Yes RG had awesome condition removel and more often then not I beleave that was the thing that won the battle.

The problem isn’t with the play its with the shear amount of particul effects that keep you from seeing most of what’s going on.

vespers.1759:

is this really fun for people? a mess where no one can see wtf is happening. everyone just spam whatever they have and hopes they hit something.

It looks a bit worse and more confusing in the fraps than it does in game. The particle effects in this game are certainly over the top and get annoying in larger battles, but it’s still doable. The more experience you have, the more you learn to disregard the unimportant visual noise and spot the important circles.

Hey there, we are The Guild Kodasch Allianz [KoA] from der german Server Kodasch.

We faught for example against guilds like [Nuke] from Baruch, [VcY] and Za Drots from Seafarer’s, [GT] from Desolation, [Aegis] and [KDL] from Elona, [MOS] from Arborstone, [TUP] from Pikensquare and many many other guilds.
We love to fight hard, no matter if we get the enemy down or not!
We learned a lot from this battles!!

WvW is our playground and we love to fight other guilds!!!

So, THANKS to all guilds we have faced so far!!

The KoA-Guild

kuora.5402:

To anyone who says “This is just AoE spam, clustercat lololol,” or along these lines, bring on your guild and try AoE spamming at your best.

You’ll get crushed, with these guys finishing with 0 defeated.

No one said they weren’t good, re-read everything. with this many people it is just skill spam.

Gunnar.5927:

CrassBippy.4619:

ill post here what i did there

not to bash, but these videos would be much more interesting if you did small GvG fights to show skill. like 5v5, still kinda cool but its just a mess of twirling damage, not much to really watch

5 man fights are spvp this is guild fight, it might seem like this is just a train but this is coordinated and skillfull play. Skill and coordination determines outcome otherwise it would just be random who wipes whom.

Even if it is skill which wins, you’re winning a competition that most people aren’t training for. It’s like taking a triathlete and beating him in a marathon.

The only real balanced playing field in the game is sPvP. Even the 1v1 roaming builds are mostly nonsense because they are picking on people who often don’t have level 80s, don’t have max armour (unlike sPvP) and don’t have build tailored towards 1v1 or ganking.

The same principle applies to GvG. It’s not truly part of WvW. As much as zergs crashing into other zergs is about combat and positioning, you are rarely working with a full guild. Quite often you have people at towers scouting, people escorting yaks, people running supply, people putting swords up as a distraction, people trying to ninja a tower, people floating from map to map to help bolster defences or push the PPT a little more and put pressure on the opponent. When all of your WvW play is done with a focus on WvW and achieving WvW goals, the concept of 25 man GvG is far removed from how you would normally play. For most WvW guilds, it’s not a case of having organised teams of 25 people all tailored towards 25 vs 25 combat, that’s just not the arena you are playing.

When your primary focus is capturing towers, defending points and conquering the map (four maps), GvG will often fall somewhere near your lowest priorities of things you need to win. It’s another reason why sPvP has additional objectives rather than just a cluster of people bashing it out through the lag, culling and particle effects. Additional objectives add depth to PvP that’s just not there in a straight up death match in GW2 (that’s not to say there won’t ever be one).

I can see the novelty value of doing something different in WvW to break up the tedium of the same old, but searching out for competitive superiority or pride in a race no-one else is training for and ArenaNet doesn’t support, well that seems futile to me. As someone who played GvG in GW1, it hurts to see this is what GvG is in GW2. I’m sure elements of this can pass over and help with general WvW, but for the most part this is far removed from what most guilds and players experience on a day to day basis in WvW, and this becomes increasingly true with burn out and player attrition.

Next time….

Do a GvG….. Underwater.

Now that would be intestesting and a challenge.

WHO IS THE BEST UNDERWATER GUILD?!

Wizardauz.3761:

Next time….

Do a GvG….. Underwater.

Now that would be intestesting and a challenge.

WHO IS THE BEST UNDERWATER GUILD?!

We did that with siN after all the GvG’s we had. Was pretty hilarious. I still have footage of it, I think.

Intigo.1653:

We did that with siN after all the GvG’s we had. Was pretty hilarious. I still have footage of it, I think.

Next vid. Right there.

We need more epic underwater combat, as much as it sucks.

Wizardauz.3761:

Next time….

Do a GvG….. Underwater.

Now that would be intestesting and a challenge.

WHO IS THE BEST UNDERWATER GUILD?!

We did, against siN – one fight at the end of our conventional GvG. Was…interesting.

Should be a video up somewhere.

Edit: Beaten to it kitten you, Intigo.

The guild that wins underwater GvG is the guild that has the most mesmer alts. Sorry to say.

CrassBippy.4619:

kuora.5402:

To anyone who says “This is just AoE spam, clustercat lololol,” or along these lines, bring on your guild and try AoE spamming at your best.

You’ll get crushed, with these guys finishing with 0 defeated.

No one said they weren’t good, re-read everything. with this many people it is just skill spam.

I read every single post on this thread. It’s not a skill spam. You have to pick which utility to use, if you’re a warrior when to drop warbanner on someone so that 5 banners don’t drop on a single guy… I know this because I main a mesmer in WvW and it took me quite a while to master where to drop veil, portal, feedback, timewarp and my other very important utilities.

Like I said. If you think you know so much about GvG and you think these guys just skill spam, bring on your mighty self and your guild, try GvG with these guys and do that pro skill spamming.

I will bet my left nuts that you’ll be crying with your guild after that.