Guild Wars 2

Except T1. Its Monday and all already every other match is over. Still think buffing the server with more population was a good idea ?

Wvw is on its last leg. Please save it.

I wonder if we removed PPT (leave some back end calcs for ranking) and the bonuses from PPT that no one seems to care about, and just made wvw about wxp and the fights if people would worry about this as much and if the population would spread out more.

Coming from a guy who’s more or less acting as a server’s personal trainer, without a guild of their own to be biased towards, this is so draining to see. The fault goes almost entirely on the fairweathers and people on the fence that just want a good classic close matchup. Unfortunately they stacked themselves into one tier to do it.

Not much anet can really do about it, except perhaps make the matches SHORTER, say 3-4 days with a break in between. 24/7 matches just don’t work as it is, when it comes to ALL their servers.

moutzaheadin.4029:

Wvw is on its last leg. Please save it.

Instead, starting 4th October leagues will kick in.

GavinGoodrich.1382:

Coming from a guy who’s more or less acting as a server’s personal trainer, without a guild of their own to be biased towards, this is so draining to see. The fault goes almost entirely on the fairweathers and people on the fence that just want a good classic close matchup. Unfortunately they stacked themselves into one tier to do it.

Not much anet can really do about it, except perhaps make the matches SHORTER, say 3-4 days with a break in between. 24/7 matches just don’t work as it is, when it comes to ALL their servers.

There’s only two ways to get people off the stacked servers.

1) Force them to leave by having restrictive map caps

2) Intice them to leave by making population and coverage irrelevent or a liability to who “wins”

Leagues are coming that will fix the blowouts…. right?!
<.<

Or maybe it’s because we are the minority on the forums…and don’t accurately represent the wvw player population…..

Clearly the developers could not have foreseen this!! I mean really….who could have seen this coming and said something about it?!?!

slowly raises hand

:) I read the dev post it made me laugh. What they do not realize is that for every angry post on the forum there are 10 ppl who doesn’t care enough to express their anger and just moved on to anther game or quit.

GavinGoodrich.1382:

Coming from a guy who’s more or less acting as a server’s personal trainer, without a guild of their own to be biased towards, this is so draining to see. The fault goes almost entirely on the fairweathers and people on the fence that just want a good classic close matchup. Unfortunately they stacked themselves into one tier to do it.

Not much anet can really do about it, except perhaps make the matches SHORTER, say 3-4 days with a break in between. 24/7 matches just don’t work as it is, when it comes to ALL their servers.

Not much Anet can do about it? Wha?

Hit the kill switch on random matches and the League. Problem solved.

Most tiers were competitive before matchups were randomized.

Thrumdi.9216:

GavinGoodrich.1382:

Coming from a guy who’s more or less acting as a server’s personal trainer, without a guild of their own to be biased towards, this is so draining to see. The fault goes almost entirely on the fairweathers and people on the fence that just want a good classic close matchup. Unfortunately they stacked themselves into one tier to do it.

Not much anet can really do about it, except perhaps make the matches SHORTER, say 3-4 days with a break in between. 24/7 matches just don’t work as it is, when it comes to ALL their servers.

Not much Anet can do about it? Wha?

Hit the kill switch on random matches and the League. Problem solved.

Most tiers were competitive before matchups were randomized.

They were also stale though, and people complained about that unendingly. The matchup system is really a no-win situation for the devs.

That being said, I think that the new incarnation of the orb buff is exacerbating already somewhat unbalanced matchups, and the devs are doing an kitten -backwards job of handling it.

The matchups are unbalanced because SERVERS are unbalanced. The power disparity between tiers in NA ladder is beyond silly. There is no way to address this unless matchups are locked in all the time.

Now servers are unbalanced because people keep transferring up for a variety of reasons. Easy wins, 24-7 fights, whatever. The league will make the T1 arms race meaningless, because tiers no longer exist and the 3 top servers will not be matched against each other the majority of the time. What can happen from that point is that players get so bored they quit, or they spread themselves over more servers to get more balanced matchups, or WvW dies from lack of interest or something.

Either way, things will change and that’s exciting First and foremost will be the looks on the faces of the people still transferring to tier 1 now, when they realize they just killed their own futures in playing any kind of meaningful WvW.

Why is it such a bad idea to limit the number of people who can join wvw to the server with the fewest people on? If server A only has 50 people on then that is all server B and C can have…..If server A gets 20 more people to join then server B and C can have 20 more people join. The actual numbers don’t have to be exactly even of course but the point is to prevent 100 versus 10 situations. There has to be some type of system incorporated to get these matchups to be on a more level playing field if you want to have competitive league play……or simply even for fun factor.

T1’s a blowout too, btw

Swamurabi.7890:

GavinGoodrich.1382:

Coming from a guy who’s more or less acting as a server’s personal trainer, without a guild of their own to be biased towards, this is so draining to see. The fault goes almost entirely on the fairweathers and people on the fence that just want a good classic close matchup. Unfortunately they stacked themselves into one tier to do it.

Not much anet can really do about it, except perhaps make the matches SHORTER, say 3-4 days with a break in between. 24/7 matches just don’t work as it is, when it comes to ALL their servers.

There’s only two ways to get people off the stacked servers.

1) Force them to leave by having restrictive map caps

2) Intice them to leave by making population and coverage irrelevent or a liability to who “wins”

they could also introduce tiered transfer costs. lower tiered servers cost less to transfer to, mid tier is a little more, t1 is ridiculous expensive or even closed to transfers

I am actually starting to like the buff. Its bringing the coverage and pop difference problems out of the closet. Now even Mr. Carter can see that they are an issue.
Hopefully.
Maybe?
Devon?
Give us a bone here.
Please?

No?

Ok

they need to take my advice and break the link between your PvE server and your WvW server. In fact rename all the WvW servers to totally different names than PvE uses.

Then at the start of every season wipe the slate clean and force every player to pick the server they want for that season. Pick the same one or not, up to you. Make a new group of friends every 7 weeks. Get to go up with and against all the guilds across GW2.

You want “variety” Anet? there ya go

Solstice.1097:

they need to take my advice and break the link between your PvE server and your WvW server. In fact rename all the WvW servers to totally different names than PvE uses.

Then at the start of every season wipe the slate clean and force every player to pick the server they want for that season. Pick the same one or not, up to you. Make a new group of friends every 7 weeks. Get to go up with and against all the guilds across GW2.

You want “variety” Anet? there ya go

This is a very interesting idea. I think that splitting WvW from PvE could really make a huge difference in populations. Anet could basically make less worlds, becuase obviously there are less people in WvW than PvE. Each world would have a higher population and better battles over all.

With that being said, I think it should be implemented in the same way it is now with only one server. Once you pick you server. You stay there or transfer from gems (Or just locked in) I don’t like the idea of people being forced to repick servers each season only due to the fact that the people who would like to play with each other every season may not be able to due to the fact that the server could possibly fill and be forced to chose another.

Anet: Oh we are about to announce some ground breaking content!

Anet: We are introducing leagues blah blah blah
Players: We don’t want leagues they are a bad idea for blah, blah and blah!
Anet: We are going to continue with the leagues as planned and you are stuck with blowouts for 7 weeks and don’t even expect new content from usduring that time. We need moar data so we will analyse the first league before we make changes for the second league.

Seigfried.5938:

Anet: Oh we are about to announce some ground breaking content!

Anet: We are introducing leagues blah blah blah
Players: We don’t want leagues they are a bad idea for blah, blah and blah!
Anet: We are going to continue with the leagues as planned and you are stuck with blowouts for 7 weeks and don’t even expect new content from usduring that time. We need moar data so we will analyse the first league before we make changes for the second league.

No they can’t make changes while second one is going. So 14 weeks from now there might be changes.

While the company is bragging about 14 days cadence WvW content is being moved to 7 week cadence.

The best thing I can say here, is by quoting my response in the “4 Leagues instead of 2” thread:

They won’t listen unless the players get serious. Here’s how you/we stop these shenanigans. Play something, anything else for about … 2 months. Tank the metrics.
Guarantee you’ll see 4 groups in the NA League after that. Yes, it’ll be hard – especially if (like myself) you overall enjoy GW2. But, there’s the only solution I can see working, since we’re dealing with a WvW Co-ord. who thinks that 2 groups of 12 servers will result in anything but mass annoyance for most of the players involved.

As regards the Bloodlust issue: Weren’t Orbs removed during Habib’s time in charge of WvW because of two factors?

1. Hacking/Glitching … still happening with Bloodlust, since it can be snagged with one Ruin. There’s a thread going about that as we speak.
2. It gave too much to the “winning” server in a triad. Hmmm, a good chunk of this thread’s reason for existing.

Of course, this is the same WvW that went from “oh, no – Masteries are just for horizontal character progression.” to “Guard Killer/Defense statbuffs! Siege Mastery stat/skillbuffs! Trolololol.” So, the question is, do we – as WvW players – have any hope left in this Pandora’s Box?

Zelda.7013:

Anet, you win. As long as bloodlust is there, screw WvW. It simply isn’t fun anymore.

All it takes small havoc squad to take the points. How the hell is it ruining wvw?

Even the blown out server can easily take them.

I personally love the new bloodlust. I have had some of the best fights in that area taking nodes then ive had for months.

allstarpro.4610:

Solstice.1097:

they need to take my advice and break the link between your PvE server and your WvW server. In fact rename all the WvW servers to totally different names than PvE uses.

Then at the start of every season wipe the slate clean and force every player to pick the server they want for that season. Pick the same one or not, up to you. Make a new group of friends every 7 weeks. Get to go up with and against all the guilds across GW2.

You want “variety” Anet? there ya go

This is a very interesting idea. I think that splitting WvW from PvE could really make a huge difference in populations. Anet could basically make less worlds, becuase obviously there are less people in WvW than PvE. Each world would have a higher population and better battles over all.

With that being said, I think it should be implemented in the same way it is now with only one server. Once you pick you server. You stay there or transfer from gems (Or just locked in) I don’t like the idea of people being forced to repick servers each season only due to the fact that the people who would like to play with each other every season may not be able to due to the fact that the server could possibly fill and be forced to chose another.

Yea kind of rethinking that part myself – original idea was since WvW server would no longer be tied to PvE server, a WvW-only transfer option would be available and would cost less than a full transfer. WvW-only transfers would take effect upon next weekly reset (can’t transfer during a matchup). WvW-only transfers would not be available to T1 you’d have to do a full transfer at full cost to get to T1. WvW-only transfers would be free to T8.

Ya know what, half serious here. What ArenaNet should do is just pay weekly gold to people on lower ranked servers who have minimum WvW activity.

Right now if you’re on a higher ranked server you get more kills which means:
-more loot bags (which is more gold)
-more achievement points (which is yet another source of more gold for you)
-more WvW ranks (which translates into hundreds more chests filled with gold for you!)
-I haven’t even brought up leagues!

Also some higher ranked servers are cheaper to transfer to than lower ranked ones.

Hey ArenaNet, STOP PAYING PEOPLE TO GO TO HIGHER TIER SERVERS AND THEN STOP PAYING WEEKLY TO KEEP THEM THERE. Might as well try the inverse! Not like you’ve even shown you have a plan (a year and then some later!)

Blackjack.2083:

Why is it such a bad idea to limit the number of people who can join wvw to the server with the fewest people on? If server A only has 50 people on then that is all server B and C can have…..If server A gets 20 more people to join then server B and C can have 20 more people join.

It’s a bad idea because:

-it’s incredibly easy to abuse: cap and upgrade as much as possible, then desert the map to drastically lower the number of players that the other servers can bring to take anything back.

-it creates a negative atmosphere where guilds and players will harass each other as to who “deserves” the rarer slots.

-it discourages new players from joining.

and, more importantly, unless you at least allow for a gap(ie: a server can have up to 10 more than the lowest).. it’s a limit that only moves down till no one is left on the map.

Seriously this whole thing is getting depressing, acting like we’re such a minority and don’t represent majority opinion, ridiculous, feels like some kind of WvW sabotage going on for twisted reasons.. it’s just sad after seeing worldpvp fall apart in every mmo ever, I hope they undo this damage of the bloodlust buffs and turn it into a tool for underdogs to have some fun.

In the DB/SoR/FA matchup going on, it’s pretty clear the whole middle thing is a failure, SoR has the 3 buffs most of the time, sometimes we take it and then leave and SoR zerg spreads out and just takes it back(often with the bug stopping us from even knowing it), lately the middle just sits neutral as the points practically defend themselves by uncapping, small groups don’t want to go solo and spread out all day(getting ganked by perplexity engis and power thieves who run around corners) and get no reward, this whole system is broken, as everyone is explaining to Anet, fix this now rather than later and admit a mistake Devon Carver, IT IS NOT WORKING.

BTW I was so excited for fighting in the middle at first, I am a pure small group worldpvper for so many years, it turns out to just be tedious and hardly anyone around to fight there, we just end up fighting heavily buffed zerg server frustrating my groupmates.. points decap too fast, bloodlust buff is quite frankly as everyone knows horrible, it needs to be something that helps a realm TAKE BACK keeps and towers faster and not destroy the balance of smallscale fighting. EDIT: destroys the balance of all kinds of fighting.

I’ve actually had alot of fun fighting in the middle personally but it’s getting more and more abandoned every day it seems, players are mostly into taking towers and keeps, proper incentive would be something to do with that stuff and taking towers/keeps, not something that messes up fights(remember, the usual blowout winner of the matchups has most everything on the map, this would make it not help them win by more)

Hickeroar.9734:

T1’s a blowout too, btw

http://mos.millenium.org/na/matchups/history/105

If you look at the link, the match between ranks 1-3 is actually quite balanced.

Just because TC is in match with Rank 1 and 3, this doesn’t make you T1. This “tier” idea doesn’t really apply anymore because the matching is random. You don’t “earn” a match with servers in rank 1-3, you get “lucky” to be matched with them or they get “unlucky” and get matched with you instead of a more competitive server match.

Rating and rank just means that rank 1 and 3 outcover your militia akin to you outcovering rank 5 and 6 servers. Your coverage rating basically shows you are still about 100 rating points away from having performance and coverage needed to be competitive in a match with rank 1-3 servers in the same way rank 5 and 6 are about 100 points away from being able to have a decent match with rank 4. A 5-7 match would be the closest to even at the top 12 currently within 100 rating points of eachother, similar to rank 1-3.

Rating are quite an accurate display of coverage and competitiveness. Any match that occurs bettwen servers that are within 100 rating of each other have fairly balanced matches. You can see the same effect in the 22-24 match, all servers are within 100 rating and they had a close match. Any time a server has over 100 rating disparity in its match, there is likely a blowout.

There are obvious exceptions such as SBI’s rating due to something destabilizing(xfers, better coordination, server rally, ect) their old rating. Similar things happened with Kaineng, Sea of Sorrows and Dragonbrand as they received large influxes of players at various points in the past.

The matches are blow outs because of server stacking, transfers and the new “improved” match making system. Look at the match ups on paper and with or without the buff these matches would have been blowouts.

Shiren.9532:

The matches are blow outs because of server stacking, transfers and the new “improved” match making system. Look at the match ups on paper and with or without the buff these matches would have been blowouts.

It’s obviously making them worse blowouts that’s the point, also making it less FUN for the losing servers as it’s such a struggle to get the 3 buffs away from the blowout winner for more than 15 minutes, fun is important. I’ve got thick skin and when we lose a fight we usually would have won without them all having +150 all stats i’m ok but i’ve noticed people im grouping with being very upset and talking about other games.

Shiren.9532:

The matches are blow outs because of server stacking, transfers and the new “improved” match making system. Look at the match ups on paper and with or without the buff these matches would have been blowouts.

I really appreciate the buffs, because before, I couldn’t tell it was a blowout from the scoreboard alone. Now, I have several methods of verifying that it is indeed a blowout:

1) Leading server has all three buffs
2) Leading server spawn camping
3) Outnumbered buff
4) Scoreboard

Thanks for making it so easy to know for sure that it’s a blowout.

My experience has been that even at a time where a server has almost no coverage and an enemy server is PvDooring on the karma train, the bloodlust buff is largely ignored. The strongest server doesn’t need it and there is almost no incentive for them to slow down their karma train to fight over it.

Capping the bloodlust buff is almost as easy as capping a supply camp.

junglizm.5843:

Hickeroar.9734:

T1’s a blowout too, btw

http://mos.millenium.org/na/matchups/history/105

If you look at the link, the match between ranks 1-3 is actually quite balanced.

Just because TC is in match with Rank 1 and 3, this doesn’t make you T1. This “tier” idea doesn’t really apply anymore because the matching is random. You don’t “earn” a match with servers in rank 1-3, you get “lucky” to be matched with them or they get “unlucky” and get matched with you instead of a more competitive server match.

Rating and rank just means that rank 1 and 3 outcover your militia akin to you outcovering rank 5 and 6 servers. Your coverage rating basically shows you are still about 100 rating points away from having performance and coverage needed to be competitive in a match with rank 1-3 servers in the same way rank 5 and 6 are about 100 points away from being able to have a decent match with rank 4. A 5-7 match would be the closest to even at the top 12 currently within 100 rating points of eachother, similar to rank 1-3.

Rating are quite an accurate display of coverage and competitiveness. Any match that occurs bettwen servers that are within 100 rating of each other have fairly balanced matches. You can see the same effect in the 22-24 match, all servers are within 100 rating and they had a close match. Any time a server has over 100 rating disparity in its match, there is likely a blowout.

There are obvious exceptions such as SBI’s rating due to something destabilizing(xfers, better coordination, server rally, ect) their old rating. Similar things happened with Kaineng, Sea of Sorrows and Dragonbrand as they received large influxes of players at various points in the past.

Just to clarify 22-24 match is not balanced. Its just a blowout in different timezones.
There are literally 10 people max on a borderland and the only reason ET isn’t obliteration fc and dr is because they are playing musical towers with us and don’t seem to care for ppt.

ykyk.2740:

The matchups are unbalanced because SERVERS are unbalanced. The power disparity between tiers in NA ladder is beyond silly. There is no way to address this unless matchups are locked in all the time.

There is another solution: start balancing the WvW server populations by unhooking them from the PvE servers, consolidating low population servers, capping server populations, and making it free to join lower population servers.

Sadly this thread is legit. I personally don’t mind the bloodlust thing, but I can’t argue with current matchup math. The matchups are a mess right now. All blowouts or sound defeats.

I think they need to from factions and pool players from the various servers to fill out team that way.

Population won’t ever be equal with server vs. server unless people are hand picked and placed but that is a really bad idea.

I posted this in a different thread but its worth reporting.

add a mechanic that allows people to be mercenaries, if I have a que on my server I can select instead to be a merc, this will then send me to a different match up where a server is out manned, if I have friends who want to join me then can be invited to group and then click on my portrait and hit “join map” much like overflow.

don’t force people to do it, but if you don’t feel like sitting in que its an option to go out and fight and it also helps out the servers that need it most, also never allow it to be your own match up.

really thus is the only way I can think to spread people out with out forcing people to move and it uses tech they already have.

Samhayn.2385:

I posted this in a different thread but its worth reporting.

add a mechanic that allows people to be mercenaries, if I have a que on my server I can select instead to be a merc, this will then send me to a different match up where a server is out manned, if I have friends who want to join me then can be invited to group and then click on my portrait and hit “join map” much like overflow.

don’t force people to do it, but if you don’t feel like sitting in que its an option to go out and fight and it also helps out the servers that need it most, also never allow it to be your own match up.

really thus is the only way I can think to spread people out with out forcing people to move and it uses tech they already have.

For all the time/work it would take them to code that, they could just change wvw from server based to a system where you pick one of 6 realms for the sole purpose of wvw.

Its just really overflow tech and guesting, I don’t see how it would be super hard to program.

Samhayn.2385:

Its just really overflow tech and guesting, I don’t see how it would be super hard to program.

But it’s just a bandaid for a system that obviously doesn’t work (server based wvw). an actual solution to population imbalance is to get rid of 27/24 servers, as wvw obviously doesn’t have the numbers to support it.

Samhayn.2385:

I wonder if we removed PPT (leave some back end calcs for ranking) and the bonuses from PPT that no one seems to care about, and just made wvw about wxp and the fights if people would worry about this as much and if the population would spread out more.

There still needs to be an incentive, IMO. I, for one, would not attack a fully T3 SM with an enemy hiding behind ACs in a battle filled with skill lag if it didn’t mean anything.

if u match t 1 servers to lower tier servers.

T 1 servers dont really need converge lol. They can blow you out since Reset night.

with stronger, well organized and experienced blob …..

I don’t know about anyone else but I kinda don’t mind some servers being higher pop than others. You get (or should get) a different experience depending on whether you’re in T1 or T2 or T3 or what, that’s kinda cool, but I don’t really know if that requires the servers to stay as they are.

Sarrs. You say that while sitting on a 1.5 tier server where ONLY 3 out of the other 23 servers available have more people then you. hard to take that seriously.

Try fighting 10-1 odds in your own BL and NO-ONE on other borderlands to call in… THEN say how you dont mind it.

Sarrs.4831:

I don’t know about anyone else but I kinda don’t mind some servers being higher pop than others. You get (or should get) a different experience depending on whether you’re in T1 or T2 or T3 or what, that’s kinda cool, but I don’t really know if that requires the servers to stay as they are.

I’m on NSP (ranked #17) and I kind of feel the same way. As I understand it, T1 plays completely differently than the lower tiers. It’s good to have variety. However, the current RNG matchmaking system sets up really bad mismatches just way too often.

Solstice.1097:

they need to take my advice and break the link between your PvE server and your WvW server. In fact rename all the WvW servers to totally different names than PvE uses.

Ohhh, how about WvW is based on race, hop on your Charr to defend the Charr borderlands than swap to Asura to attack the Human borderlands.

Since we don’t have Guilds fighting in Guild Wars at least the simmering tensions between the races highlighted by the current storyline would make more sense.

Then I get to see an army of Charr roll into an army of Asura and finally quit WvW happy.

Ostra.3927:

Sarrs. You say that while sitting on a 1.5 tier server where ONLY 3 out of the other 23 servers available have more people then you. hard to take that seriously.

Try fighting 10-1 odds in your own BL and NO-ONE on other borderlands to call in… THEN say how you dont mind it.

What’s this 1.5 business? TC is T2. Top dog in T2, but still T2. I’ve played since release, and we were in T4/5 when the game launched.

I have fought 10-1 odds in our own BL. We had 50PPT last night. I do mind it; I’ve said in a lot of other places that the variance needs to be brought down, but how do you propose to fix it without causing serious damage elsewhere?

Sarrs.4831:

I’ve said in a lot of other places that the variance needs to be brought down, but how do you propose to fix it without causing serious damage elsewhere?

Maybe this will help: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Time-for-a-change-of-direction (in particular the stuff on reducing the number of WvW servers).

Hi obby

Hi winter!

See you soon… Maybe