Guild Wars 2

Thobek.1730:

Slamz.5376:

Woaden.9425:

Thieves are easy to counter, here goes:

Against all:
Root/stun
AOE

Thief is in stealth almost all the time. You can’t target them for root/stun.

Really it’s not that “thieves are unbalanced” it’s that “stealth is unbalanced”, particularly with the way thieves can constantly reapply it.

Give stealth an 8 second cooldown between uses and I think almost all complaints would cease.

TOTALLY AGREE. 8 seconds would probably be enough. No more of this instant re-stealth crap. It makes me wonder if Anet devs watch any of these so-called “pro” videos of thieves stealthing all the time during a fight and how easy it has become for them to decimate groups of players by themselves.

too long now they have this “get out of jail free card” by stealthing all the time. Where is the danger when they can simply disappear. its like they just log off the map. By the time they reappear they are almost out of draw distance range.

I remember before this game came out watching a video of developers talking about stealth saying that they wanted it to be used sparringly not all the time during fights. I wish I could find and link it here because in this case, they completely missed the mark for stealth.

Shaojack.3871:

purpleskies.3274:

I really hate the thieves burst, even speced and geared defensively they can kill you with an opener in about 1.5 seconds, which is ridiculous. In a perfect situation (I’m not fighting someone else, nothing is on CD ect) I can counter them, but things are rarely perfect in WvW.

I for one would really like the damage of C&D and mug reduced (or at least put trait in a higher tier for specing).
I also think it is ridiculous that a missed, blinded, ect attack doesn’t break stealth. If you missed you should have to pay for the mistake, not be given a second chance.

I don’t agree really, they can kill glass characters with burst.
My guardian since he hit level 80, i cannot remember ever losing a 1v1 fight to thief.
Warrior can be trickier, however I just WAY more hp and some more armor and I hit hard as hell too.
I feel the most annoying part about fighting thieves and even some mesmers is the constant target breaking that happens. I don’t mind some but the rate it’s done is just maddening sometimes =P

I have a thief, and I know how to counter them. But they can still kill me almost instantly if I have anything on cool down or if I am fighting someone else, even if I am at full health. Nothing should kill you that fast.

And there are numerous examples given since release of people dying to a thief in the steal-Cd-Bs combo, including guardians. If you go full bunker plate class, you won’t necessarily die to the opening, (on guardian especially if you have aegis up).

I am fine with them having burst. BS I think is fine, which hits for 8-10k plus keeping lets say 1.5k on both mug and C&D, so hitting for 11-13k opening. That is still very strong burst, which can be repeated a few times with utilities and CD but makes it a bit more manageable for the other person to recover if they know what they are doing.

Also as I said punish thieves for missing in stealth. If you didn’t hit you should still be revealed.

Thrumdi.9216:

Alarox.4590:

Modimor.4319:

Lol, always complaints about stealth classes in MMO’s

There’s a pattern.

Yeah, I’m surprised Anet added it to the game. Shadowstep would have been enough for the class to feel like a thief or assassin.

I agree. I think the class would have been a lot more fun to play if it were based around shadowsteps and exploiting dodges/evasion. Stealing other class’ skills could have been better too (like Arcane Thievery in GW1 for instance).

This is annoying. Nerfing the revealed debuff screws over S/D and P/D, both builds without bursts that require a lot of uptime to be effective. Thieves would be forced to go D/D burst because all thier sets would become high risk, but only D/D builds have the high reward to compensate. I really don’t want to see S/D buffed into a burst spec. Dunno what they’d be able to do to P/D cause without its frequent access to Sneak Attack, it becomes a failure of a condition spec, and it’s Power/Crit is worse then P/P, so they’d be pretty much up a creek.

Penguin.5197:

I remember before this game came out watching a video of developers talking about stealth saying that they wanted it to be used sparringly not all the time during fights. I wish I could find and link it here because in this case, they completely missed the mark for stealth.

Sparingly? lol. yeah they dropped the ball on that one.

Getting ridiculous with the majority of Thieves and Elementalists charging groups of 3-4 opponents without hesitation, because they know they can get out most of the time if things goes bad, with a good chance to down someone.

You don’t see Rangers, Necros, Mesmers and Engineers try that very often for a reason. Heck, even Warriors and Guardians usually prefer to leg it vs 3-4. >_>

Mobility, Defense OR Burst from Elementalist / Thieves needs to be adjusted to be on par with the others.

Penguin.5197:

I remember before this game came out watching a video of developers talking about stealth saying that they wanted it to be used sparringly not all the time during fights. I wish I could find and link it here because in this case, they completely missed the mark for stealth.

After you mentioned that I went on a mission to track it down. found it for you. Right from the developers mouth.

watch it from 2:50 onwards.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWm8dTrEyWM

“unlike other games stealth is not unlimited” – perma stealth theives would disagree.

“its not unlimited it should be used with careful forethought” – yeah every 4-6 seconds. ohh big deal.

To counter a thief theres just 1 skill you need to dodge, block, or blind, or interrupt, CnD.

Then they have no stealth which means they’re down 5 initiative (half their potential skills) and their most powerful stealth opener is gone.

Theves can’t touch guardians period. D/D eles almost always force a retreat, and warriors #3 rifle + kill shot will down every single glass cannon thief. 2 skills.

If you don’t understand the skills of a class, you might not be able to beat it regardless and that’s how it should be.

Psh. a ranger should be way better at hiding and movement than some city-slickin pickpocket.

Shaojack.3871:

I don’t agree really, they can kill glass characters with burst.
My guardian since he hit level 80, i cannot remember ever losing a 1v1 fight to thief.
Warrior can be trickier, however I just WAY more hp and some more armor and I hit hard as hell too.
I feel the most annoying part about fighting thieves and even some mesmers is the constant target breaking that happens. I don’t mind some but the rate it’s done is just maddening sometimes =P

Ofc both those professions can build very defensive, and i can do it too and have to a degree but then i got so little damage that i can’t kill the glass cannon. But shouldn’t it be like if a glass cannon meet another glass cannon they should have the same chance? And do the same damage? There were announced that they have gotten rid of the holy trinity with tanks and so on, so if a glass cannon meet another they should be able to both have a chance, and if i meet with my ranger another warrior and both are glass cannons there will actually be a fun fight where both will use dodge to get away from cc and with stunbreakers ofc. But with thiefs they can just stealth away if they see they loose. So my suggestion for a fix is:
a) Give a stealth counter, it could be some potion for revealing stealth for some duration and within some distance
b) some utilities or traits.
c) break stealth if u take damage.
d) Cannot stealth while in combat so it’s mainly used for surprise attack
e) Get revealed if within a range, let’s say 900 but can then be buffed to be perma invisible, but whenever they come close to a enemy they will get revealed. will get a ring around them so they can see when they will be visible.(But i would like to instead see this on a new profession that is called assassin instead:)

Oh and also since alot of thiefs say that they can only build glass cannon since that’s what thief is all about or that they don’t get any other effective builds. Ok that’s fair, but then thiefs should be buffed in other areas. Also thief is not a noob killer, i can take down bad thiefs but thief got it way to easy to disengage from fights.
One of the reasons i believe to be the problem is the invisibility combined with initiative when all other professions got cd.

Thieves are still jaw droppingly overpowered and very very easy to play – a bad combination.

They need stealth to be less of a get out of jail free card. Fewer routes in to stealth, a greater revealed time and damage breaking stealth.

Steal is a utility skill – utility skills should not do 4-5k damage. That needs reducing.

Cloak and dagger is a restealth skill – decide if that is offense or defense and adjust the damage/utility accordingly. 5-6k damage is too much in its current state.

Backstab – far too high on damage when used with the above. This needs reducing.

Heartseeker – mobility, damage and a finisher all in one spammable ability? This needs adjustment – remove the bonus damage at sub 50% and decide if its a gap closer or a damage ability and adjust accordingly – one has to go.

As we have it now we have a large population of thieves many relying on a steal/cnd/BS macro to one button down any target.

ANET wake up and listen – yes warriors have too much damage, and mesmers are a little OTT but 90% of the class complaints on your forums are about 1 class – thieves.

selan.8354:

Hepan.2709:

Yes some mesmer traits make it pretty impossible to fight on some classes. Its either let clones/phants alive and take damage or kill them and get damage via conditions. Who came up with that?

The best thing when fighting a mesmer is to just focus on the player if you have any kind of burst damage. Most are pretty distinguishable from their clones by signets, food buffs, world completion stars, upleveled arrow, boons, and last but not least movement and skills they cast.

aaaand there are glamour mesmers like me that put up a bubble around the thief and once they try to backstab, they pretty much backstab themselves. u dont need to worrie about the clones but the bubbles on condition dmg. the glamour build is very very deadly for zergs. I fought 2 thieves and 1 lowbie warrior at once today and they all died to cofusion dmg. there is ways to counter thieves, but if they permastealth its pretty hard as u dont know if u are hitting them or not.

idk what bubble you talking about since i never played mesmer but the moment i see some pink stuff on the ground i high tail it out of there until its over.

i also retreat if i get confusion and just let it wear off wait for some CDs and try again.

what i meant about clones is the constat fire/bleed and whatnot from staff clones. Those are just annoying as hell, as having them out all i see are pink balls flying around and me on fire

@kormona (and all other qqers about stealth): stealth is not the problem, culling is. learn the difference already. Cry to anet to fix culling and then we’ll see how unbalanced thief is.

@tagnut: steal is a class mech not utility combined with ini system. on its own it does no damage only traited does damage. Lets then reduce the damage to warr adrenaline skills, no boons for eles on atun swap, no activate on guard virtues, etc. etc.

C&D if not traited for or dodged/misses burns half of our ini or efectively half our CDs if you will, its good. Again with the stealthing part, culling is the issue

Backstab: requires positioning and if you dont expect a stealhed player to come from behind, you have l2p issues.

HS yes it provides alot of good stuff, but it just shows where other classes are lacking. Necro, engi, and some other need a serius buff when it comes to gap closing. I would much rather see them buffed then just blindly swinging the nerf hammer around and hoping kitten get balanced.

Thobek.1730:

“unlike other games stealth is not unlimited” – perma stealth theives would disagree.

“its not unlimited it should be used with careful forethought” – yeah every 4-6 seconds. ohh big deal.

Thats indeed more than absurd. Sure there is no perma stealth because stealth breaks after a few seconds, but it can be repeated much to often.

DAOC got a perma stealth system which imo was MUCH BETTER than what we got in GW2. Stealth professions in DAOC could run around in stealth as long as they wanted. But you were revealed either on dealing or getting damage. IIRC some professions got an ability to restealth during combat once per fight. But thats it. No disengaging multiple times in the middle of a fight. No loosing target every few seconds, no mindless spaming aoe on targets you cannot see.

/sigh

Quote:

Backstab: requires positioning and if you dont expect a stealhed player to come from behind, you have l2p issues.

And steal ‘only does damage if traited’ ..yep, only 6-8k in one hit as part of a 1 second macro that 3 shots players…..

Yes, and I can tell exactly where that stealthed thief is to ensure he isn’t behind me HOW? Oh I know, throw down my endless stun locks (that I don’t have), or my endless aoe (that I don’t have).

Twirl in a circle and hope he can’t run around me faster than I can rotate (or just stop and wait for my back to face him and bang).

Ahh, yes, use my detect stealthed players potion! Oh wait, devs forgot to include this in the game….

Gotta love some of the lame rubbish thiefs come up with to try and stop the devs from fixing the broken class.

Victory.2879:

Quote:

Backstab: requires positioning and if you dont expect a stealhed player to come from behind, you have l2p issues.

And steal ‘only does damage if traited’ ..yep, only 6-8k in one hit as part of a 1 second macro that 3 shots players…..

Yes, and I can tell exactly where that stealthed thief is to ensure he isn’t behind me HOW? Oh I know, throw down my endless stun locks (that I don’t have), or my endless aoe (that I don’t have).

Twirl in a circle and hope he can’t run around me faster than I can rotate (or just stop and wait for my back to face him and bang).

Ahh, yes, use my detect stealthed players potion! Oh wait, devs forgot to include this in the game….

Gotta love some of the lame rubbish thiefs come up with to try and stop the devs from fixing the broken class.

sigh…its funny how much trouble thieves actually have landing backstabs against anyone with any situational awareness whatsoever.
Y’all talking like everytime a thief stealths your keyboards magicly stop working and your bars go on a 3-4 sec lockdown.

Edit: love what trash players come up with to call a class borked when its actually other classes that are severly lacking in some areas and game mechanics that are fubar’d.

I play Mesmer. I can build polar opposite ends of spectrum. I can go full GC and burn down a lot of people insanely fast. Or I can go bunker and let the poor souls burn themselves down. That being said. Thieves are meant to prey on players that are low on health. Its the point of an assassin class. If you are in a straight 1v1 against a thief yeah you will prolly win because you know they are coming. If they get the drop on you? Guess what? 100b warrior prolly would have as well. I’m not defending thieves in any way I think it is a low skill cap class (yes I have one and I am bored with it) but certain things you should expect to happen.
1. If you are GC expect to go down super quick that’s the trade off
2. If you are bunker watch your Cd’s and make sure some form of protection up. Also bunkers can most likely burn thieves down just as fast as another GC class that’s the trade off of being a GC.

Now when I run a full tank Mesmer build with 27k HP and almost 3k armor thieves freak when they BS me and “OMG he isn’t at 1/4 so I can HS HS kill.” If they drop me when I am a GC well I had it coming.

tagnut.8621:

Thieves are still jaw droppingly overpowered and very very easy to play – a bad combination.

They need stealth to be less of a get out of jail free card. Fewer routes in to stealth, a greater revealed time and damage breaking stealth.

Steal is a utility skill – utility skills should not do 4-5k damage. That needs reducing.

Cloak and dagger is a restealth skill – decide if that is offense or defense and adjust the damage/utility accordingly. 5-6k damage is too much in its current state.

Backstab – far too high on damage when used with the above. This needs reducing.

Heartseeker – mobility, damage and a finisher all in one spammable ability? This needs adjustment – remove the bonus damage at sub 50% and decide if its a gap closer or a damage ability and adjust accordingly – one has to go.

As we have it now we have a large population of thieves many relying on a steal/cnd/BS macro to one button down any target.

ANET wake up and listen – yes warriors have too much damage, and mesmers are a little OTT but 90% of the class complaints on your forums are about 1 class – thieves.

You remember me of Silvio Berlusconi. You spread out lies and make black propaganda; or maybe you are just ignorant and don’t know anything about this profession.
So please refrain from making this kind of posts.

If you are in a straight 1v1 against a thief yeah you will prolly win because you know they are coming.

Nah. They won’t kill you but they will just stealth and run away so the fight will end in a tie

Hepan.2709:

@kormona (and all other qqers about stealth): stealth is not the problem, culling is. learn the difference already. Cry to anet to fix culling and then we’ll see how unbalanced thief is.

I’m not qq’ing, i’m stating a fact. Having almost constant invisibility without any way to break it before it runs out is way to op, and when it’s combined with initiative system it’s broken. And i know the difference between culling and stealth, and yes i have played spvp too, but i still think the stealth should get a rework. And i don’t want thief nerfed to the ground but i want them buffed on the cc and support. Invisibility is a huge defence abilitity and that makes it easier for thieves to go glass cannon than other classes. You can say just aoe the thief, but you know a good thief don’t stand in the aoe while stealthed, and since they got so huge mobility they can go invis and then appear a long distance away if they mess up the fight. And yes i have played thief too. Anet should take a look at other games how they handle invisibility and change it to stealth instead.

Kormona.7156:

Hepan.2709:

@kormona (and all other qqers about stealth): stealth is not the problem, culling is. learn the difference already. Cry to anet to fix culling and then we’ll see how unbalanced thief is.

I’m not qq’ing, i’m stating a fact. Having almost constant invisibility without any way to break it before it runs out is way to op, and when it’s combined with initiative system it’s broken. And i know the difference between culling and stealth, and yes i have played spvp too, but i still think the stealth should get a rework. And i don’t want thief nerfed to the ground but i want them buffed on the cc and support. Invisibility is a huge defence abilitity and that makes it easier for thieves to go glass cannon than other classes. You can say just aoe the thief, but you know a good thief don’t stand in the aoe while stealthed, and since they got so huge mobility they can go invis and then appear a long distance away if they mess up the fight. And yes i have played thief too. Anet should take a look at other games how they handle invisibility and change it to stealth instead.

Appearently not. The only way thieves get perma invisible atm is with culling (in combat). The problem here is you dont have those 3 secs to unload on him, like you would if his char appeared instantly when stealth is over.

Sure rework our stealth and give us means to block/mist form/invoul/insert other form of completely negating damage. Im all for it. Might be something like Walk in Shadows: Walk in shadows and evade all incoming attacks for 3-5 secs.
Cause atm we have nothing BUT stealth to trick our enemies to swing at empty air and smart dodging to avoid the big hits.

Suralin.3947:

Fortunately, they don’t balance thieves based on WvW as much as they do in sPvP. Once culling is fixed, I’m sure I won’t be able to CnD my way to an enemy siege line and just drop caltrops while doing no physical damage to anyone else.

The discrepancy between thieves in spvp and wvw is crazy. I jumped into spvp for the first time today. Was fighting a thief and wondering why he wasn’t going into stealth. Then I realised it was because he was actually visible for the full 3 seconds of Reveal, lol.

Funny how you can kill something you can target.

Slamz.5376:

Give stealth an 8 second cooldown between uses and I think almost all complaints would cease.

Lol?
Why not 1 min? Or a hour?

And what about to increase CD of 100blades to 30 sec and For Great Justice! to 90 sec?
Remove Meteor Shower to the high elite skills with 2 min CD? Removing all self-protection buffs from Elems and increasing CD for all movement and Cantrip skills in 3 times?
How about increasing Portal CD to 10 min and all illusion skills CD in 3 times?

Hepan.2709:

sigh…its funny how much trouble thieves actually have landing backstabs against anyone with any situational awareness whatsoever.
Y’all talking like everytime a thief stealths your keyboards magicly stop working and your bars go on a 3-4 sec lockdown.

I look forward to hearing your theories on how I’m supposed to have ‘situational awareness’ of someone I can’t see. Y’all talking like we can magically target stealthed targets.

stealth has to be nerfed! the stealth debuff needs a higher duration, like 15s. you cant kill good thieves with their stealth build, only if you are a zerg with 15+ ppl and all know what they are doing and the thief gets greedy.
thats not op? oh come on.

and please dear thieves. (nearly) all people with mains which are not thieves think thieves are op. this is not a l2p issue and no, in most cases aoe is NOT a help vs stealth, but wait anet wants to nerf aoe, another thief buff.

and yes, one of my 5 80 characters is a thief, i know what im talking about.

tagnut.8621:

Thieves are still jaw droppingly overpowered and very very easy to play – a bad combination.

They need stealth to be less of a get out of jail free card. Fewer routes in to stealth, a greater revealed time and damage breaking stealth.

Steal is a utility skill – utility skills should not do 4-5k damage. That needs reducing.

Cloak and dagger is a restealth skill – decide if that is offense or defense and adjust the damage/utility accordingly. 5-6k damage is too much in its current state.

Backstab – far too high on damage when used with the above. This needs reducing.

Heartseeker – mobility, damage and a finisher all in one spammable ability? This needs adjustment – remove the bonus damage at sub 50% and decide if its a gap closer or a damage ability and adjust accordingly – one has to go.

As we have it now we have a large population of thieves many relying on a steal/cnd/BS macro to one button down any target.

ANET wake up and listen – yes warriors have too much damage, and mesmers are a little OTT but 90% of the class complaints on your forums are about 1 class – thieves.

What a hell are posted above?
4-5k damage from the steal? 5-6k damage from the CnD? O.o
Maybe you just need to stop going to the WvW with ungeared low-lvl character?

SilverWF.4789:

tagnut.8621:

Thieves are still jaw droppingly overpowered and very very easy to play – a bad combination.

They need stealth to be less of a get out of jail free card. Fewer routes in to stealth, a greater revealed time and damage breaking stealth.

Steal is a utility skill – utility skills should not do 4-5k damage. That needs reducing.

Cloak and dagger is a restealth skill – decide if that is offense or defense and adjust the damage/utility accordingly. 5-6k damage is too much in its current state.

Backstab – far too high on damage when used with the above. This needs reducing.

Heartseeker – mobility, damage and a finisher all in one spammable ability? This needs adjustment – remove the bonus damage at sub 50% and decide if its a gap closer or a damage ability and adjust accordingly – one has to go.

As we have it now we have a large population of thieves many relying on a steal/cnd/BS macro to one button down any target.

ANET wake up and listen – yes warriors have too much damage, and mesmers are a little OTT but 90% of the class complaints on your forums are about 1 class – thieves.

What a hell are posted above?
4-5k damage from the steal? 5-6k damage from the CnD? O.o
Maybe you just need to stop going to the WvW with ungeared low-lvl character?

no, its totally easy(!) to do this damage to full geared non gc 80. maybe you should retrait your thief.

Hepan.2709:

selan.8354:

Hepan.2709:

Yes some mesmer traits make it pretty impossible to fight on some classes. Its either let clones/phants alive and take damage or kill them and get damage via conditions. Who came up with that?

The best thing when fighting a mesmer is to just focus on the player if you have any kind of burst damage. Most are pretty distinguishable from their clones by signets, food buffs, world completion stars, upleveled arrow, boons, and last but not least movement and skills they cast.

aaaand there are glamour mesmers like me that put up a bubble around the thief and once they try to backstab, they pretty much backstab themselves. u dont need to worrie about the clones but the bubbles on condition dmg. the glamour build is very very deadly for zergs. I fought 2 thieves and 1 lowbie warrior at once today and they all died to cofusion dmg. there is ways to counter thieves, but if they permastealth its pretty hard as u dont know if u are hitting them or not.

idk what bubble you talking about since i never played mesmer but the moment i see some pink stuff on the ground i high tail it out of there until its over.

i also retreat if i get confusion and just let it wear off wait for some CDs and try again.

what i meant about clones is the constat fire/bleed and whatnot from staff clones. Those are just annoying as hell, as having them out all i see are pink balls flying around and me on fire

@kormona (and all other qqers about stealth): stealth is not the problem, culling is. learn the difference already. Cry to anet to fix culling and then we’ll see how unbalanced thief is.

@tagnut: steal is a class mech not utility combined with ini system. on its own it does no damage only traited does damage. Lets then reduce the damage to warr adrenaline skills, no boons for eles on atun swap, no activate on guard virtues, etc. etc.

C&D if not traited for or dodged/misses burns half of our ini or efectively half our CDs if you will, its good. Again with the stealthing part, culling is the issue

Backstab: requires positioning and if you dont expect a stealhed player to come from behind, you have l2p issues.

HS yes it provides alot of good stuff, but it just shows where other classes are lacking. Necro, engi, and some other need a serius buff when it comes to gap closing. I would much rather see them buffed then just blindly swinging the nerf hammer around and hoping kitten get balanced.

i meant this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTbyG5rHK9k

Thobek.1730:

After you mentioned that I went on a mission to track it down. found it for you. Right from the developers mouth.

watch it from 2:50 onwards.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWm8dTrEyWM

“unlike other games stealth is not unlimited” – perma stealth theives would disagree.

“its not unlimited it should be used with careful forethought” – yeah every 4-6 seconds. ohh big deal.

Heh, nice dude. Like the dedication.

transtemporal.2158:

Hepan.2709:

sigh…its funny how much trouble thieves actually have landing backstabs against anyone with any situational awareness whatsoever.
Y’all talking like everytime a thief stealths your keyboards magicly stop working and your bars go on a 3-4 sec lockdown.

I look forward to hearing your theories on how I’m supposed to have ‘situational awareness’ of someone I can’t see. Y’all talking like we can magically target stealthed targets.

Situational awareness as in: oh noes he’s in stealth proly going for the backstab, should i just stand still or move around? Ill just stand still, im sure ill be OK.

This game is built around active dodging and reacting to what your enemy does. If you react poorly to certain situations thats everybody elses fault but your own right?
Thats why you dont have some passive 59% chance to dodge an incoming attack.

As for atacking what you cant see: yes you cant target in active stealth, you can spam #1 tho, lucky shots still hurt.
As for culling: yes, big issue. yes, fix asap (tho that last patch just made it worse), but you can target somebody under the effect of culling.
When thief exits stealth a black swirl shows up at hist feet, if you click on that you will target him, also tabing after they appear works to and you’re sure to target him if not a lot of other PC/NPC are around.

And before you go why should i have to do all that just to be able to target him, so unfair, anet nerf plox; other thievs (well atleast me) do that when they want to target a thief/any PC/any NPC under culling effect.

knyy.6427:

SilverWF.4789:

tagnut.8621:

Thieves are still jaw droppingly overpowered and very very easy to play – a bad combination.

They need stealth to be less of a get out of jail free card. Fewer routes in to stealth, a greater revealed time and damage breaking stealth.

Steal is a utility skill – utility skills should not do 4-5k damage. That needs reducing.

Cloak and dagger is a restealth skill – decide if that is offense or defense and adjust the damage/utility accordingly. 5-6k damage is too much in its current state.

Backstab – far too high on damage when used with the above. This needs reducing.

Heartseeker – mobility, damage and a finisher all in one spammable ability? This needs adjustment – remove the bonus damage at sub 50% and decide if its a gap closer or a damage ability and adjust accordingly – one has to go.

As we have it now we have a large population of thieves many relying on a steal/cnd/BS macro to one button down any target.

ANET wake up and listen – yes warriors have too much damage, and mesmers are a little OTT but 90% of the class complaints on your forums are about 1 class – thieves.

What a hell are posted above?
4-5k damage from the steal? 5-6k damage from the CnD? O.o
Maybe you just need to stop going to the WvW with ungeared low-lvl character?

no, its totally easy(!) to do this damage to full geared non gc 80. maybe you should retrait your thief.

I can recieve such big damage only at my full Exotic Berserker Elem. But this is my own problem, sure. And my DPS is huge too, and it’s AOE and from bigger distanse, so it’s OK for me.

Guardian with 3k armor here. Backstab deals 9k+ damage to me.

Iavra.8510:

Guardian with 3k armor here. Backstab deals 9k+ damage to me.

and 100B from a full GC war ?
and GC mesmer’s burst ?

did you have vulnerability ?
did he have 20+ stacks of might ?

your numbers are meaningless.

xKedge.5493:

Stealth finisher is fine.. cause as a thief you have a Lack of AOE.
All you can do is single target on a fight.

Er … with shortbow #2 and good timing we got a thief who killed 3 people on top of a tower in about 8 seconds because his cluster bomb hit each of us for about 6k.

So there is AoE for a thief though it’s not as easily placed as a D/D ele but way less clumsy than a staff elementalist is forced to endure.

tagnut.8621:

Thieves are still jaw droppingly overpowered and very very easy to play – a bad combination.

They need stealth to be less of a get out of jail free card. Fewer routes in to stealth, a greater revealed time and damage breaking stealth.

Steal is a utility skill – utility skills should not do 4-5k damage. That needs reducing.

Cloak and dagger is a restealth skill – decide if that is offense or defense and adjust the damage/utility accordingly. 5-6k damage is too much in its current state.

Backstab – far too high on damage when used with the above. This needs reducing.

Heartseeker – mobility, damage and a finisher all in one spammable ability? This needs adjustment – remove the bonus damage at sub 50% and decide if its a gap closer or a damage ability and adjust accordingly – one has to go.

As we have it now we have a large population of thieves many relying on a steal/cnd/BS macro to one button down any target.

ANET wake up and listen – yes warriors have too much damage, and mesmers are a little OTT but 90% of the class complaints on your forums are about 1 class – thieves.

Edit: 90% of class complaints on the forums are from those who aren’t very good at any class.

Kormona.7156:

SoPP.7034:

STEALTH!
Has created controversy across all MMO’s that have used it.

My question is, wth was ArenaNet thinking?

It works in other games but only because they have ways to reveal stealthed enemies. They should really implement some way to reveal stealted characters, it could be something like a potion that is sold by karma and/or some utility skills. That would fix alot but for thieves it’s somehow deeper, it’s a combination of stealth with high mobility and high burst.

Unfortunately ArenaNet has its head up its kitten. Lets nerf AoE, lets keep an eye on d/d bunker ele and lets close theards that talk about thiefs -.-

Hepan.2709:

This game is built around active dodging and reacting to what your enemy does. If you react poorly to certain situations thats everybody elses fault but your own right?

Yes, so again: HOW DO I REACT TO SOMETHING I CAN’T SEE. The only logical reaction I can have is to get some space between me and the last place I knew he was and hope his stealth runs out before he hits me so I can actually target him.

Hepan.2709:

As for atacking what you cant see: yes you cant target in active stealth, you can spam #1 tho, lucky shots still hurt.

Lol, this is just an invitation to the thief to CnD me. The only auto attack I’ve seen that works effectively is the guardian staff-1 since it covers a decent area. Almost everyone else should not do this.

And yes yes, I know you’re going to say, “aoe kills thieves, so aoe!”. With marks my necro has the fastest and biggest aoe you can get in the game but I don’t have enough to “mine” the entire area around me. This sometimes kills him, but mostly not.

Hepan.2709:

As for culling: yes, big issue. yes, fix asap (tho that last patch just made it worse), but you can target somebody under the effect of culling.

As I said in an earlier post, the difference between thieves in spvp and wvw is night and day. In spvp thieves actually appear for the full 3 seconds of reveal. This changes the game as far as fighting thieves and makes it much more fair. In WvW, it’s just a joke.

Hepan.2709:

When thief exits stealth a black swirl shows up at hist feet, if you click on that you will target him, also tabing after they appear works to and you’re sure to target him if not a lot of other PC/NPC are around.

Only a thief player would say this with a straight face.

Since I don’t know where he’s going to come out of stealth and since he usually goes straight back into stealth, he never actually appears on screen. Most of the time I don’t even see a black swirl. The times I do see it, he goes back into stealth immediately so no targeting. If you’re saying that .5 of a second SOMEWHERE on screen is enough to target him, you have far better reactions than I do.

Beyondthelol.9504:

I swear that every person who defends the thiefs blatant overpoweredness does so because they themselves play a thief.

How about we have a new rule – if you play a thief you are not allowed to comment on if they are OP or not

Really dude? Is this the first MMO you’ve played? Don’t you realize this topic comes up in every MMO that has a thief type class? It’s the nature of the game. GW2 is actually one of the most pvp balanced MMO I have played. Stealth is actually not OP in GW2, they fixed that problem by making stealth limited. Thieves generally have a lower health pool and wear leather armor, so they have to use things like stealth and evasion to make up for this. Thief mechanics work very similar in all MMO’s. Get in, hit em hard, get out. If a thief stays in too long they die. Its as simple as that. How about we have a new rule – if you Don’t play a thief (or do not have the understanding of thief mechanics) then you are not allowed to comment on if they are OP or not

The finishing move while stealthed is rather ridiculous.

Also, 90% my fault, but a thief killed me today in 2 hits. 90% my fault because I let him attack me from behind and I was typing in guild chat and I had glass cannon armor on. Still though, tell me one other class that can kill something in 2 hits? A channeled skill does not count, because its like 8 hits (rapid fire for example). I mean literally 2 hits from backstab killed me. Good luck telling me of another class that can kill in 2 hits.

Daendur.2357:

Iavra.8510:

Guardian with 3k armor here. Backstab deals 9k+ damage to me.

and 100B from a full GC war ?
and GC mesmer’s burst ?

did you have vulnerability ?
did he have 20+ stacks of might ?

your numbers are meaningless.

No vulnerability, no might.

Can’t say much about 100B or mesmer burst but killshot also hits me for 10k+.

Iavra.8510:

Daendur.2357:

Iavra.8510:

Guardian with 3k armor here. Backstab deals 9k+ damage to me.

and 100B from a full GC war ?
and GC mesmer’s burst ?

did you have vulnerability ?
did he have 20+ stacks of might ?

your numbers are meaningless.

No vulnerability, no might.

Can’t say much about 100B or mesmer burst but killshot also hits me for 10k+.

My Guardian with 3.1k armor has never been hit by anything for higher than 6.5k, I smell shenanigans.

taken from the thief section, who reckons they can counter this?

i was one of the victims in this vid :’(

transtemporal.2158:

Hepan.2709:

As for culling: yes, big issue. yes, fix asap (tho that last patch just made it worse), but you can target somebody under the effect of culling.

As I said in an earlier post, the difference between thieves in spvp and wvw is night and day. In spvp thieves actually appear for the full 3 seconds of reveal. This changes the game as far as fighting thieves and makes it much more fair. In WvW, it’s just a joke.

Thieves also have reduced damage in Spvp, plus they don’t get food or crystals. Less damage + no culling = more manageable.

transtemporal.2158:

Hepan.2709:

When thief exits stealth a black swirl shows up at hist feet, if you click on that you will target him, also tabing after they appear works to and you’re sure to target him if not a lot of other PC/NPC are around.

Only a thief player would say this with a straight face.

Since I don’t know where he’s going to come out of stealth and since he usually goes straight back into stealth, he never actually appears on screen. Most of the time I don’t even see a black swirl. The times I do see it, he goes back into stealth immediately so no targeting. If you’re saying that .5 of a second SOMEWHERE on screen is enough to target him, you have far better reactions than I do.

I have to reinforce what transtemporal is saying about the ‘black swirl’ and if anything his politeness in answering you. Stealth stacks so the reality of using it to target is not legitimate as they may still be stealthed. Also the context makes a HUGE difference of how you can possibly use it in a closed/open area as a group lay down aoe or are you solo. Target the swirl, lol, seriously.

This is why there is no arena and spvp need 5 players minimum… to cover class umbalance…

SoPP.7034:

transtemporal.2158:

Hepan.2709:

When thief exits stealth a black swirl shows up at hist feet, if you click on that you will target him, also tabing after they appear works to and you’re sure to target him if not a lot of other PC/NPC are around.

Only a thief player would say this with a straight face.

Since I don’t know where he’s going to come out of stealth and since he usually goes straight back into stealth, he never actually appears on screen. Most of the time I don’t even see a black swirl. The times I do see it, he goes back into stealth immediately so no targeting. If you’re saying that .5 of a second SOMEWHERE on screen is enough to target him, you have far better reactions than I do.

I have to reinforce what transtemporal is saying about the ‘black swirl’ and if anything his politeness in answering you. Stealth stacks so the reality of using it to target is not legitimate as they may still be stealthed. Also the context makes a HUGE difference of how you can possibly use it in a closed/open area as a group lay down aoe or are you solo. Target the swirl, lol, seriously.

Works for me and quite a few ppl i know, if you cant get it to work its again everybody elses fault right?

Stealth stacks yes, but if he attacks you black swirls show, he has revealed debuff, so all you have to do is click on it and you’ll have ur target.

Anyways im pretty much done since its like talking to a brick wall. Some players refuse to learn to play against thieves even when they themselves tell them how to counter.

If thieves are such omgimbagodmode why do I kill them, I see other players kill them, I die on my thief same as on my other toons etc. etc.

The only players complaning about thieves are bads who refuse how to adapt and l2p within the parameters and limits currently set in WvWvW, whether they are intenional design (“spamable” stealth from cnd) or unintentional flaws in the system (culling).

Go back to PvE.

Edit: on second thought, stay. Your tears makes killing you so much more enjoyable.

@Hepan “If thieves are such omgimbagodmode why do I kill them” Because your a thief:P
And i’m tired of thieves that say nothing is wrong with the balance. Why is it then that whenever i meet a thief it’s always a bigger chance that he will kill me than when i meet other professions? Is it because thief players in general is better than players with other professions, or is it because thief profession is easier to play or that thief is a little op atm?

Kormona.7156:

@Hepan “If thieves are such omgimbagodmode why do I kill them” Because your a thief:P
And i’m tired of thieves that say nothing is wrong with the balance. Why is it then that whenever i meet a thief it’s always a bigger chance that he will kill me than when i meet other professions? Is it because thief players in general is better than players with other professions, or is it because thief profession is easier to play or that thief is a little op atm?

I see thieves die to everything, and the thief has an instat advantage when you say oh kitten thats a thief i wont even try.

I cant tell you how many oppenents just keep running in the same direction when i jump them, not even trying to turn around and fight. Its mostly ppls mentality that is screwing them over, for the most part.

Hepan.2709:

I see thieves die to everything, and the thief has an instat advantage when you say oh kitten thats a thief i wont even try.

I cant tell you how many oppenents just keep running in the same direction when i jump them, not even trying to turn around and fight. Its mostly ppls mentality that is screwing them over, for the most part.

I have killed some thieves 1v1 on my ranger and i don’t run because i know they will catch me because of the mobility so i fight. But as i said, i die more to thieves than to other professions and i think it’s because they got more advantage than other professions, no?

Kormona.7156:

Hepan.2709:

I see thieves die to everything, and the thief has an instat advantage when you say oh kitten thats a thief i wont even try.

I cant tell you how many oppenents just keep running in the same direction when i jump them, not even trying to turn around and fight. Its mostly ppls mentality that is screwing them over, for the most part.

I have killed some thieves 1v1 on my ranger and i don’t run because i know they will catch me because of the mobility so i fight. But as i said, i die more to thieves than to other professions and i think it’s because they got more advantage than other professions, no?

You have 25% signet, yes? Same as thiefs.
Thief has shadowstep, using it to cover ground will put his stunbreak on CD.
Thief can HS/IA to cover distance, spending initiative, efectively lowering their combat effectivenss.

Knowing when to pounce, defend, run is pretty much all you need to know.

I can handle most Thieves on my rangers, the ones i can’t handle it has less to do with the thief and more with the fact I can’t keep my pet Stowed.

Having a Ranger pet is basically an easy C/D for most Thieves…If I could stow my pet and dodge the C/D it’d make things far more easier when dealing them.

Sadly Anet has decided that ANY damage will automatically unstow the Ranger pet even if they don’t want it to happen…