Guild Wars 2

Heibi.4251:

So does anyone have a solution based idea to add to or expand on my ideas? i.e. A way to balance the mesmer, not how to spot a mesmer and such.

I do.

Work on the viability of some of the builds of other classes.

Mesmers are fairly useful in large groups and small and they aren’t instawrecking anyone who isn’t asking for it.. They are in an ok place.

It sounds like you’re having trouble spotting the real mesmer. That is a “learn to play” issue (no offense intended, we all have to learn to be better before we are better) and we shouldn’t really be discussing class balance from that standpoint.

Master of Timespace.2548:

Heibi.4251:

Elano, that still doesn’t deal with the imbalance. Solutions are needed, not, “I know more than you” statements. Mesmers are clearly overpowered. I think I’ve spotted the real mesmer at times only to be incorrect. And the portal bomb is way too overpowered. Party sized ports should be the limit. The WvWorlders will come up with a tactic, like more mesmers, to overcome that limit. Spam clones should be addressed.

How often do you do duels against mesmers? Mesmer is a though opponent, but not more though than a good d/d ele for example.

I think I’ve spotted the real mesmer at times only to be incorrect.

Finding the real mesmer should be trivial in WvW setting where food buffs spoil any cover clones might give.

And you still haven’t done anything but talk about spotting and how thieves are so great. How about a little constructive comment. Like how to balance out the mesmer. Pluses and minuses of what I suggested. Anything other than “I know more than you” and such.

fivekiller.1432:

Heibi.4251:

So does anyone have a solution based idea to add to or expand on my ideas? i.e. A way to balance the mesmer, not how to spot a mesmer and such.

I do.

Work on the viability of some of the builds of other classes.

Mesmers are fairly useful in large groups and small and they aren’t instawrecking anyone who isn’t asking for it.. They are in an ok place.

It sounds like you’re having trouble spotting the real mesmer. That is a “learn to play” issue (no offense intended, we all have to learn to be better before we are better) and we shouldn’t really be discussing class balance from that standpoint.

You come close to being constructive, but you still are missing the point of the discussion. My portal suggestion is quite a logical extension of the party size limits put on us. My clone suggestion needs work but I believe the clone functions should be more curtailed. So far most responses have been, “learn to play”, “my thief can take them”, “don’t play crap build”, and the like. None of which address my post’s ideas.

I don’t play a thief nor have I ever played one. I dislike the play style greatly. I my opinion they are not overpowered. They are good at 1v1 and getting way. Either use cc with allies to stop them or run a good solo class urself. Stop complaining

Heibi.4251:

fivekiller.1432:

Heibi.4251:

So does anyone have a solution based idea to add to or expand on my ideas? i.e. A way to balance the mesmer, not how to spot a mesmer and such.

I do.

Work on the viability of some of the builds of other classes.

Mesmers are fairly useful in large groups and small and they aren’t instawrecking anyone who isn’t asking for it.. They are in an ok place.

It sounds like you’re having trouble spotting the real mesmer. That is a “learn to play” issue (no offense intended, we all have to learn to be better before we are better) and we shouldn’t really be discussing class balance from that standpoint.

You come close to being constructive, but you still are missing the point of the discussion. My portal suggestion is quite a logical extension of the party size limits put on us. My clone suggestion needs work but I believe the clone functions should be more curtailed. So far most responses have been, “learn to play”, “my thief can take them”, “don’t play crap build”, and the like. None of which address my post’s ideas.

Do you have any reason to nerf portal other than “5 is the size of a group so it should be 5?” That seems an arbitrary reason to nerf a useful utility to the point where it would see little to no use. I don’t see any more logic in your reasoning than if you were to say “the max stack size of items is 250 so why not allow 250 people to portal.”

If, however, portals were only useable by group members I would see a basis for your reasoning, but that mechanic would make the max number irrelevant.

With my main point being rather than nerf portal, work on the other classes abilities so that they are more useful and more in line with the mesmer’s usefulness, I wonder if it is really me who missed the point.

Bear in mind, disagreement with your point does not indicate that I have missed your point.

Valik Shin.9027:

I don’t play a thief nor have I ever played one. I dislike the play style greatly. I my opinion they are not overpowered. They are good at 1v1 and getting way. Either use cc with allies to stop them or run a good solo class urself. Stop complaining

I’m not talking about thieves. I’m saying that mesmers are overpowered. And I’ve offered some possible solutions. You are not being constructive in your comment. If you weren’t referring to my posts I apologize. If you were, you may want to look at my original post – thieves were not mentioned.

Heibi, it seems that you’re so certain of yourself. Are you sure there is an imbalance, not just a learn to play issue? And that “solutions” aren’t needed? All your suggestions are based on “mesmers’ clones and portals are overpowered and should be nerf’d”. What if that assumption is just ridiculously wrong? Quit saying other people didn’t give you any feedback.

On topic: thieves are fine. They’re very annoying when you’re trying to get to the group, but as far as I know, they don’t really contribute much when it comes to larger battles.

Cina Reas.6938:

Warrior, Guardian and Elementalist v Thief

Thief wins easily by being invisible for more than 50% of the time.

It’s pretty obvious from March’s State of the Game that the devs think most things are Hunky Dory with thieves and that elementalists are the problem because they can DPS and tank and heal.

They state that invisibility that is the issue, and as a guardian I wonder HOW I can “punish the enemy for their position on the battlefield”, as stated in Jonathan Sharp’s Class Balance Philosophies when I can’t even see the thief? And now they talk about BOON HATE and nerfing of AoE (one of Jonathan Sharp’s Thief Counters – see above for this quote, “counter their stealth with area of effects”).

fivekiller.1432:

Heibi.4251:

fivekiller.1432:

Heibi.4251:

So does anyone have a solution based idea to add to or expand on my ideas? i.e. A way to balance the mesmer, not how to spot a mesmer and such.

I do.

Work on the viability of some of the builds of other classes.

Mesmers are fairly useful in large groups and small and they aren’t instawrecking anyone who isn’t asking for it.. They are in an ok place.

It sounds like you’re having trouble spotting the real mesmer. That is a “learn to play” issue (no offense intended, we all have to learn to be better before we are better) and we shouldn’t really be discussing class balance from that standpoint.

You come close to being constructive, but you still are missing the point of the discussion. My portal suggestion is quite a logical extension of the party size limits put on us. My clone suggestion needs work but I believe the clone functions should be more curtailed. So far most responses have been, “learn to play”, “my thief can take them”, “don’t play crap build”, and the like. None of which address my post’s ideas.

Do you have any reason to nerf portal other than “5 is the size of a group so it should be 5?” That seems an arbitrary reason to nerf a useful utility to the point where it would see little to no use. I don’t see any more logic in your reasoning than if you were to say “the max stack size of items is 250 so why not allow 250 people to portal.”

If, however, portals were only useable by group members I would see a basis for your reasoning, but that mechanic would make the max number irrelevant.

With my main point being rather than nerf portal, work on the other classes abilities so that they are more useful and more in line with the mesmer’s usefulness, I wonder if it is really me who missed the point.

Bear in mind, disagreement with your point does not indicate that I have missed your point.

If ANeT is limiting party size to 5, then the portal’s maximum number of portiers should be 5. If the max party size were 20 I wouldn’t have an issue with it. So if they increase party size to 6 or 8(like in GW1) I would have no issue if the max number of porters equaled the max number of possible party members. Thus, the mesmer could port any number up to the maximum party size.

The portal ability would be still be very useful to a party or a small group(not partied up) in any situation. If your only reason not to is because it would nerf the “portal bomb” tactic then my reason is more logical. And items are items and are in your inventory, while people are people and are external to the player, so the 250 port is a straw man argument.

I appreciate your input.

Svarty.8019:

Cina Reas.6938:

Warrior, Guardian and Elementalist v Thief

Thief wins easily by being invisible for more than 50% of the time.

It’s pretty obvious from March’s State of the Game that the devs think everything is Hunky Dory with thieves and that elementalists are the problem because they can DPS and tank and heal.

I think they need to realise that it is invisibility that is the issue, not the thieves’ other powers. HOW can a guardian “punish the enemy for their position on the battlefield”, as stated in Jonathan Sharp’s Class Balance Philosophies when they can’t even see the thief? And now they talk about BOON HATE and nerfing of AoE (one of Jonathan Sharp’s Thief Counters – see above for this quote, “counter their stealth with area of effects”).

Actually, WvW is mostly a zergfest these days, at least in higher tiers. Thieves are not that valuable there. Mostly thieves are good for killing out of place noobs.

Elano.2014:

Heibi, it seems that you’re so certain of yourself. Are you sure there is an imbalance, not just a learn to play issue? And that “solutions” aren’t needed? All your suggestions are based on “mesmers’ clones and portals are overpowered and should be nerf’d”. What if that assumption is just ridiculously wrong? Quit saying other people didn’t give you any feedback.

On topic: thieves are fine. They’re very annoying when you’re trying to get to the group, but as far as I know, they don’t really contribute much when it comes to larger battles.

I’ve been playing GW1 and GW2 from the beta. I’m very experienced. My ideas are based on observations of mesmers from both the receiving end and being on the giving end by having a mesmer by my side.

I’ve posted my ideas and most came back with the “I know more than you” or the you’re a noob attitude. So far only one true constructive response has been made.

Heibi.4251:

The portal ability would be still be very useful to a party or a small group(not partied up) in any situation. If your only reason not to is because it would nerf the “portal bomb” tactic then my reason is more logical. And items are items and are in your inventory, while people are people and are external to the player, so the 250 port is a straw man argument.

I appreciate your input.

You are correct about the straw man argument.

I will instead argue that limiting portal capacity to party size is no more or less arbitrary than limiting them to squad size.

Squad size is much larger than 20 though, maybe 60 or so? Is there even a limit aside from the map size limit?

My suggestion is so the ability isn’t too overtly powerful we split the difference between party size limits and squad size limits, say at 20 or so. That sounds like a fair compromise.

fivekiller.1432:

Heibi.4251:

The portal ability would be still be very useful to a party or a small group(not partied up) in any situation. If your only reason not to is because it would nerf the “portal bomb” tactic then my reason is more logical. And items are items and are in your inventory, while people are people and are external to the player, so the 250 port is a straw man argument.

I appreciate your input.

You are correct about the straw man argument.

I will instead argue that limiting portal capacity to party size is no more or less arbitrary than limiting them to squad size.

Squad size is much larger than 20 though, maybe 60 or so? Is there even a limit aside from the map size limit?

My suggestion is so the ability isn’t too overtly powerful we split the difference between party size limits and squad size limits, say at 20 or so. That sounds like a fair compromise.

If we go by traditional army definitions a squad is 8-13 in size, a platoon is 26-64, and a company is 80-225. So if we reduced the portal limit to 8-13 I would be satisfied.

Heibi.4251:

I’ve been playing GW1 and GW2 from the beta. I’m very experienced. My ideas are based on observations of mesmers from both the receiving end and being on the giving end by having a mesmer by my side.

I’ve posted my ideas and most came back with the “I know more than you” or the you’re a noob attitude. So far only one true constructive response has been made.

Playing a long time doesn’t equal to being good. Having played a mesmer doesn’t mean you know everything about it. What I’m saying is that you could and should try to improve yourself instead of asking the company to nerf a class. You cannot even spot the real mesmer with all those characteristics a clone doesn’t have, so I don’t see any reason why ANet should change it just because you think so.

I’ve posted my ideas and you came back with the “you’re not inputting” attitude.

Heibi.4251:

Valik Shin.9027:

I don’t play a thief nor have I ever played one. I dislike the play style greatly. I my opinion they are not overpowered. They are good at 1v1 and getting way. Either use cc with allies to stop them or run a good solo class urself. Stop complaining

I’m not talking about thieves. I’m saying that mesmers are overpowered. And I’ve offered some possible solutions. You are not being constructive in your comment. If you weren’t referring to my posts I apologize. If you were, you may want to look at my original post – thieves were not mentioned.

I apologise to you. I see anything about stealth and think its another complaint about thiefs

I have improved myself and my observations stand. And my argument on one of them is quite logical. The other needs a little work, but it is sound as well.

GW2 has a very different take on thief than other MMOs. Most other MMOs have perma stealth and destealthing. This game lacks permastealth, and you do not get destealthed. Because of this a thief must stealth in reaction to an enemy, and may employ stealth to achieve position and pick/choose fights.

If you use a channel ability on a thief while it is visible, the channel continues through stealth (eg Longbow 2 for Ranger). This is very useful.

Backstab is a positional attack. If you flip your facing around in an unpredictable manner, you lower the number of those a thief lands and up your survival.

If you root a thief, and they stealth, you know where they are and can swing at that spot and kill them.

AOE stuns, bleeds, roots…that stuff messes up thieves badly. Dump that and move and they will likely leave.

If you play a thief, you will learn how they re-stealth and spot the signs and learn how to counter them.

If you play a ranged glass cannon, very few things in this game serve as a check on you. You can use dodge to evade attacks, you can move off to regain health, and as long as you pick a suitable set of getaway skills, you can function very well indeed. The bane of this build is thief, and that is the price you get for all of that long range damage you dish out in your glass cannon spec. The choice you must make is whether you want to compromise damage and survive thieves, or whether you want to dish out max damage and take a few lumps from thieves.

Heibi.4251:

fivekiller.1432:

Heibi.4251:

The portal ability would be still be very useful to a party or a small group(not partied up) in any situation. If your only reason not to is because it would nerf the “portal bomb” tactic then my reason is more logical. And items are items and are in your inventory, while people are people and are external to the player, so the 250 port is a straw man argument.

I appreciate your input.

You are correct about the straw man argument.

I will instead argue that limiting portal capacity to party size is no more or less arbitrary than limiting them to squad size.

Squad size is much larger than 20 though, maybe 60 or so? Is there even a limit aside from the map size limit?

My suggestion is so the ability isn’t too overtly powerful we split the difference between party size limits and squad size limits, say at 20 or so. That sounds like a fair compromise.

If we go by traditional army definitions a squad is 8-13 in size, a platoon is 26-64, and a company is 80-225. So if we reduced the portal limit to 8-13 I would be satisfied.

Why would you go by (i’m assuming United States Army, but the French Foreign Legion is equally irrelevant) standards rather than GW2 WvW standards? A squad in WvW is more like 60, not 8-13. Use 60, not 8-13.

still, in none of this have I seen a reason portal needs a nerf anyways. In almost every case on my server when a group portal bombs in they get wiped.

There was a very rare exception yesterday where BG got 2 portals behind a group of SOR and wiped them. Usually though it doesn’t work. It takes some effort, knowledge/preparation, and a bit of luck to pull off a portal bomb that actually doesn’t get your whole group killed. Its a risk. Especially these days with everyone catching on to static field. That all seems the way it should.

This is in T1 though, are things different in the tier you play? Has your meta not gotten to that point? Maybe that’s a separate discussion then?