Fast tweaks for optimizing WvW fun!

Fast tweaks for optimizing WvW fun!

in WvW

Posted by: Memphisjz.1405

Memphisjz.1405

Hello fellow player and (hopefully) ArenaNet developer.

I’ve been playing WvW for a long time, and i have noticed that there are some things wrong with it that can be easily fixed (i’m talking < 5 minutes programming work) that would have a MASSIVE impact on WvW in terms of (i) Fun and (ii) balance (server-wise). Some of these ideas are probably already mentioned somewhere in a post. But i would like to list some ideas. You can see it as a player-made patch list for WvW!

  • Doors can ONLY take damage from siege weapons
    Making doors immune to player damage fixes a lot of stuff: It gives smaller-populated server a chance to defend against MASSIVE blobs. I have personally been in situations where the siege placement limit prevented us from building enough AC’s to take the blob down. Defensive trebuchets shot down their rams, but the Player vs Door is just stupid. 60 players take down a door in a matter of seconds. Additionally, it gives supply (traps) a bigger role in WvW. No supply? No siege possible. Go resupply and rethink your strategy!
  • All siege is immune to AC fire
    Arrow carts are an ANTI-PERSONNEL weapon. nerving their damage vs siege is not enough, just remove it completely. They will still be able to shoot the players manning the siege, though. AC’s have a HUGE radius, making them still the primary close-range anti-siege weapon. (for reasons, see next bullet)
  • Ballista’s need an ARC BASED AoE attack
    Ballista’s are pretty much a useless at the moment. The only use for them is the spreadshot in choke-point defenses. However, i’m convinced ballistas are intended to be anti-siege weapons, yet they are (almost) never used for it. Here is why: Their straight shot and LoS requirement forces you to build the ballistas on the edge of the walls if you want to shoot siege (e.g. catapults shooting you wall) down . However, attackers can easily shoot down these ballistas, making them ineffective vs countering siege. They also need an AoE attack, since targetting a siege weapon with a blob stood in front of it is basically impossible.
  • All siege placed on tower/keep/castle walls is IMMUNE to player damage
    This is probably one of the idea’s that makes you go ‘hang on’, but i have spent some serious thought into this. Currently WvW is like this: Attackers go “Cast more meteor showers!! Shoot all AC’s down” , while defenders go “Find more glitches/fancy spots to place siege out of range of AoE!!”. As a defender, you are generally incapable of actually standing on your own walls when a blob is attacking you. All you can do is built AC’s behind the gate and wait from the blob to PvDoor nevertheless. Ideally, walls should somehow be implemented that the AoE cast onto them aren’t casted on the walk-able bits as well (i.e. if you cast it on the side of the wall, all damage lands on the side of the wall, not on top of it). However, once a tower is captured it should be easy to clear the siege placed before by the defenders, so they should be damageable by players from within melee range.

By implementing the above tweaks, WvW becomes more how i believe Anet themselves intended it to be! An epic battle with proper siege battles, where the most clever siege placer wins! IMO, 10 persons should be able to withstand ANY direct assualt given a properly sieged tower (enough AC’s to prevent ramming, few ballista’s vs cata’s and 1 trebuchet to counter trebuchet assualt) Attackers would thus be forced to (i) find a high ground so they can out-range the defensive trebuchet or (ii) coordinate the building of multiple trebs, placed in opposite directions, so the counter trebuchet can only shoot 1 down and the attackers would win. This would really get rid of the mindless ‘who has the biggest blob’ mentality.

Comment or like this post if you agree, so that Anet can see it!

Hylo Hammerswing [AoA]
Treb Master of the Shiverpeaks

(edited by Memphisjz.1405)

Fast tweaks for optimizing WvW fun!

in WvW

Posted by: Convenant.7092

Convenant.7092

No… More… Changes… To… Siege….

Please focus… on… the… PVP…

Fast tweaks for optimizing WvW fun!

in WvW

Posted by: Dusk NL.9561

Dusk NL.9561

Excellent write up and clearly demonstrates how current WvW is, you have the bigger numbers, you win the tower. no skill involved in this, just server population.

Fast tweaks for optimizing WvW fun!

in WvW

Posted by: Oren.1736

Oren.1736

I would be happy with all suggestions OP brings up.

S U P E R Oron – [TCHU]
Charr Guardian – Gandara(EU)
“KEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEOMS”

Fast tweaks for optimizing WvW fun!

in WvW

Posted by: kRiza krimos.1637

kRiza krimos.1637

+1 for i have never heard of solders with swords and hammers break gate doors and take castles. This change would be good!

Fast tweaks for optimizing WvW fun!

in WvW

Posted by: Jartgo.8921

Jartgo.8921

These are all very good ideas and would make the WvW experience a lot more interesting and hopefully help stop this whole Zerg idea. Which is just plain boring.

Fast tweaks for optimizing WvW fun!

in WvW

Posted by: Thorzar.3895

Thorzar.3895

This is the best write up on how WvW should have been fixed so far since launch.

[eXo] Community Lead

Fast tweaks for optimizing WvW fun!

in WvW

Posted by: DeadSign.1942

DeadSign.1942

I like the suggestions. +1

Fast tweaks for optimizing WvW fun!

in WvW

Posted by: hobotnicax.7918

hobotnicax.7918

I hardly ever comment on threads but I read the forums every day. These are great ideas which should at least be considered by the devs.
Doors taking damage only from siege should be patched asap.

Fast tweaks for optimizing WvW fun!

in WvW

Posted by: Sterkboog.5167

Sterkboog.5167

Great post with indeed some small, not to difficult changes that would have a huge (and positive) impact on the WvW-experience! Hope that a dev reads this post!

Fast tweaks for optimizing WvW fun!

in WvW

Posted by: Menaka.5092

Menaka.5092

So, basically, trash all your siege but the trebs.
Attacking a keep/tower/whatever:

  • rams will be countered by ACs
  • golems will be countered by cannons, mortars, trebs
  • catapults will be countered by trebs, catapults and and ballistas

So, each conquest will be a really funny bombardment with trebs for hours.
It does not sound really fun…

Fast tweaks for optimizing WvW fun!

in WvW

Posted by: hihey.1075

hihey.1075

So more power to AC? No please. Go to Harathi Hinterlands if you like to use siege.

AC taking no damage on walls is simply ridiculous. That way, no one will ever take a tower/keep.

The only nice idea is rams taking no damage from ACs. Everything else is not good if you look at the big picture (that is, not factoring only the few defenders vs few attackers).

Pillow Cake
Worst Thief EU
One Handed One vs One Videos

(edited by hihey.1075)

Fast tweaks for optimizing WvW fun!

in WvW

Posted by: Jartgo.8921

Jartgo.8921

AC taking no damage on walls is simply ridiculous. That way, no one will ever take a tower/keep.

Only from player damage or they can simply make it players do very little damage to siege such as they do to door. It also wont make a keep/tower impossible to take it just means you need to split your force hit multiple locations. It requires a little bit more thinking when attacking a keep or tower than the current “lets form up in one massive blob to win” tactic in wvw. As in its current state why bother having small teams going around when all you need to be is a bigger force that follows a tag mindlessly around the battlefield taking locations.

Fast tweaks for optimizing WvW fun!

in WvW

Posted by: Aberrant.6749

Aberrant.6749

This would turn the power totally over to siege…because they don’t take center stage enough as is? As another poster pointed out it would be treb wars 2 if this was adopted.

Personally I would love to see a reduction of siege power. I miss the days where siege was there to support the players. Not take over for them.

Pushing 1,2,3 etc. hardly take any skill compared to what goes on in a player Vs. players fight. It’s not fun either. Me standing by some one on an arrowcart/catapult/whatever is boring for the majority involved and the one using it… unless you just find joy in seeing lots of numbers pop up or holding and releasing the space bar?

Tarnished Coast
Salvage 4 Profit + MF Guide – http://tinyurl.com/l8ff6pa

Fast tweaks for optimizing WvW fun!

in WvW

Posted by: Memphisjz.1405

Memphisjz.1405

While i encourage you all to discuss my ideas, it would be nice if you would actually carefully read all my ideas and put some thought into them before raging about them.

So more power to AC?

?
I never said that. i’m saying Ac’s should have LESS power because they shouldn’t be able to actually shoot siege down. All i’m saying is that it would be nice if a properly defended tower would actually be HARD to capture for a blob. Right now, 1 meteor shower takes down about 30-40% of an AC’S health. Combined with the Huge AoE, AC’s are too easy to counter.

  • rams will be countered by ACs
  • golems will be countered by cannons, mortars, trebs
  • catapults will be countered by trebs, catapults and and ballistas

If you see too many AC’s you should first build a ballista to shoot em down (given they also add the arc-based AoE attack on ballistas). I’m a WvW commander, and i bought 200 ballistas 3 months ago. Currently, i still have 194 left, which should be an indication on how useless ballistas currently are.

If you can’t build ballistas, then you will have to go build something else to counter theirs. I mean com’n on guys, do you really think that it is perfectly fine that the 30 minute siege-building of the defenders to prepare for a blob inc should just be laughed at while you roll over them and ignore all defensive capabilities of the tower? “All hit 1 on the gate…aaaaaaaaannnnnd we are in, GG”

People seem to confuse WvW with GvG, WvW was not designed to be player vs player only. It was designed to bring battles on an epic scale to GW2.

As a reference: Did you see any uruk-hai / orcs swinging their swords at the gate during the Battle of Helms Deep and taking it down in a matter of seconds? No, they had to use a ram. They even had to bring a ladder & blow a hole in the wall to be able to actually fight the defenders.

Defenders should ALWAYS have the advantage.

Hylo Hammerswing [AoA]
Treb Master of the Shiverpeaks

(edited by Memphisjz.1405)

Fast tweaks for optimizing WvW fun!

in WvW

Posted by: Yid.3024

Yid.3024

Very nice points. I’m not sure how the last part (sieges on walls) will actually work out, but I am glad I’m not the only one who thinks the wall fights currently are sort of… awkward. :P

And a double yes to making balistas more useful, however that might be done.

Fast tweaks for optimizing WvW fun!

in WvW

Posted by: Memphisjz.1405

Memphisjz.1405

Very nice points. I’m not sure how the last part (sieges on walls) will actually work out, but I am glad I’m not the only one who thinks the wall fights currently are sort of akward. :P

Exactly, After spending all the gold/supply on upgrading your tower, you still feel like standing on your own walls is the same as playing a Bullet hell game (with DIFFICULTY LEVEL: ASIAN) instead of actually feeling safer with the upgraded tower. Cannons and mortars? Blob takes them down in 3 seconds…

Hylo Hammerswing [AoA]
Treb Master of the Shiverpeaks

Fast tweaks for optimizing WvW fun!

in WvW

Posted by: Dawdler.8521

Dawdler.8521

My 3 quick changes:

A door can only be hurt by 5 players at once. More players do nothing. PvDoor is still needed as an option to avoid the feeling of being rich wins, ie buying siege. In turn, players do a bit more damage to a door than now (a single flame ram would still be faster)

Siege cannot be built on structures unless its a predefined upgrade (oil, cannon, etc). To balance this, more upgrades would be added, including static arrowcarts, ballistas and even catapults

Arrowcarts and ballista now work exactly like the other siege with slow aim, power and arch, normalizing the siege system to a single mode of control

End of an arrowcart era.

Fast tweaks for optimizing WvW fun!

in WvW

Posted by: Tom Gore.4035

Tom Gore.4035

I can’t really think of anything to add. OP’s suggestions are perfect.

One – Piken Square

Fast tweaks for optimizing WvW fun!

in WvW

Posted by: Kai.9182

Kai.9182

All of the ideas listed are horrible

Fast tweaks for optimizing WvW fun!

in WvW

Posted by: Shadow.3475

Shadow.3475

Instead off Doors can ONLY take damage from siege weapons see min time to break down a gate, something like 50sec Paper (2%/sec), 120sec Reinforced (1%/2sec), so when you go over max damage you just waste the damage, but to get up to max damage is something like 5ram/golem on reinforced gate.

Would like the immune idea but it is to powerful, but would prefer a better LOS check, the skill I most think on then is AOE pull.

Fast tweaks for optimizing WvW fun!

in WvW

Posted by: Vaugh.7193

Vaugh.7193

They even had to bring a ladder

Bringing a ladder to a tower would be kind of epic. +1 for that suggestion. And all the other ones too.

Guild leader of As Stars We Belong [STAR]
WvW Commander of Blacktide.
@RaugoolGW2 on Twitter

Fast tweaks for optimizing WvW fun!

in WvW

Posted by: Jartgo.8921

Jartgo.8921

Thinking more on this I feel that bleed through damage should be taken out the game. For example a treb should not be able to damage through a gate. Eles should not be able to put skills underneath a bridge to damage on top of it the same goes with AC fire. If you cant place the circle actually on the targeted area you should not be allowed to damage through it or through obstetricals such as gates.
Also ladders would be great so would siege towers, more traps and defensive siege such as barricades or something. Would certainly make things a little more interesting.

Fast tweaks for optimizing WvW fun!

in WvW

Posted by: Coarr.3286

Coarr.3286

one more tweak:

fix wxp gain. give everything a fixed amount of points like:

-player: 150
-camp: 400
-Tower: 2500
-keep: 8000
-stonemist: 20000

when you kill an enemy player you get the full 150 wxp, when you kill a player with 24 friends you get 6wxp. that would represent the amount of hard work you had to invest. when you fight in even numbers 25vs25 you gain the same point that you would get when you fight with even numbers in a smaller or lager scale.

what you solo a tower you get 2500 wxp, with a 5 man group 500points ect ect.

that would give the playerbase a reason not to run with the zerg. they can choose. play save and lose a little reward or play risky, in a smaller scale, and become rewarded.

[care] Coarr Ix – Ranger
Kodash
Stomp some Piken!

Fast tweaks for optimizing WvW fun!

in WvW

Posted by: Dawdler.8521

Dawdler.8521

Ladders would assume far, far more complicated castles. Current ones are too simplistic for ladders, as soon as you get on a wall you’re 5 seconds away from the tower lord.

If they actually looked like a medieval castle with a 3x taller wall and towers along that wall as well as the keep being 5x larger, maybe ladders would work

Fast tweaks for optimizing WvW fun!

in WvW

Posted by: Menaka.5092

Menaka.5092

  • rams will be countered by ACs
  • golems will be countered by cannons, mortars, trebs
  • catapults will be countered by trebs, catapults and and ballistas

If you see too many AC’s you should first build a ballista to shoot em down (given they also add the arc-based AoE attack on ballistas). I’m a WvW commander, and i bought 200 ballistas 3 months ago. Currently, i still have 194 left, which should be an indication on how useless ballistas currently are.

An arc attack on ballistas makes no sense and I think it’s very unlikely it will happen.

I understand what you are saying: you want more power for defensive siege, but as an attacker I can assure you that’s not the problem. Drop 3 superior arrow carts behind a gate, you’ll destroy whatever blob tries to tear it down with weapons. And those AC can’t be countered in any way, not even with trebs if they are placed correctly.

Yesterday we were defending Bay, we had about 15 people on, I built one normal arrow cart and rained arrows on a 40+ group while my guild was pushing them: we wiped them.
One. Arrow. Cart.

Fast tweaks for optimizing WvW fun!

in WvW

Posted by: Erastmus.3785

Erastmus.3785

I think that to maximize the wvw experience and the fun involved with it should start by working on the things that is already in there and make it somewhat attractive to a wider audience. Fixing the keep glitches, properly balancing the wvw population and its coverage, having proper watch dogs against hackers, rewards to make it an incitement to play wvw etc, and most importantly starting to listen to the input of their wvw community who plays it regularly and try to integrate and involve them in the decision making.

Then you can start to tweak it when you got a stable fundamental.

Prissie – floppy-eared Asura elementalist
Crtitical Emergence [CE] – Gunnar’s Hold
My elementalist videos… http://www.youtube.com/user/erastmus/videos

(edited by Erastmus.3785)