Guild Wars 2

So, it’s confirmed you need ~400 hero points to fully unlock an elite specialization.

The new ability in the blog post to get one hero point for an RNG WvW item that is rewarded on level-up is nice, but 400?

I believe that this figure is completely unreasonable for your average WvW player. I am a WvW exclusive player, and as I prefer small-scale fighting to zerging, I am only WvW rank 900, despite having 4500 hours of playtime logged.

I thought Anet said, “We don’t make grindy games”. 400 hero points, one at a time in WvW sounds pretty kitten grindy to me, does anyone else feel the same way?

I’m gonna need to buy alot of vodka. If I drink enough of it, I hopefully wont remember the horrific pve grind that I will have to endure.

I have to agree. Vodka is the only thing that makes gw2 playable.

Illusion der Nebel.5860:

I have to agree. Vodka is the only thing that makes gw2 playable.

Beer also works…but you need more of them and a bucket to pee in while perma grinding.

Basically you need to have every current traitline unlocked (what a load of kitten), to unlock just half you need 200 points aka current full map completion, and then you need another 200. So for a new character you need to rank up 40 times (assuming that when they say maguuma challenges give 10 HPs that they are extending this to the wvw ones).

EoTM K train this weekend anyone?

So from what I can tell, at 1 proof per rank and 5 proofs to a hero challenge (each worth 10 points), an elite specialization will require 200 WvW ranks and 6000 badges of honor.
Per character..?
kitten ..

Helly.2597:

Basically you need to have every current traitline unlocked (what a load of kitten), to unlock just half you need 200 points aka current full map completion, and then you need another 200. So for a new character you need to rank up 40 times (assuming that when they say maguuma challenges give 10 HPs that they are extending this to the wvw ones).

EoTM K train this weekend anyone?

All current trait lines and skills are automatically unlocked once you hit lvl 80… that was a core part of the changes made in the big June patch.

As for 400 pts needed overall… those PVEers bragging about “world completion” on half their alts are going to have to the shock of their lives… LOL.

vana.5467:

So from what I can tell, at 1 proof per rank and 5 proofs to a hero challenge (each worth 10 points), an elite specialization will require 200 WvW ranks and 6000 badges of honor.
Per character..?
kitten ..

Just do the PvE farm while getting drunk and hating yourself…it will be way faster.

vana.5467:

So from what I can tell, at 1 proof per rank and 5 proofs to a hero challenge (each worth 10 points), an elite specialization will require 200 WvW ranks and 6000 badges of honor.
Per character..?
kitten ..

It will make sense as a WvWer to get your butt over to the PVE maps right now and start grinding as many HPs as you can, since this will cut down on the ranks and badges you’ll need to hit the 400 mark when HOT launches.

400 to unlock everything so unless you start at level 1 its not as bad as it looks. I have 1 toon with 100% map and unlocked everything so far and I have 204 unspent HP..

briggah.7910:

400 to unlock everything so unless you start at level 1 its not as bad as it looks. I have 1 toon with 100% map and unlocked everything so far and I have 204 unspent HP..

Hmmm… you do realize it’s 400 hero points per character, right ? ;-)

What happened to 170 points?! You maniacs! You blew it up!

Clownmug.8357:

What happened to 170 points?! You maniacs! You blew it up!

About a month ago, datamining was saying 250 HP.

Today, Colin confirms 400.

Oh dear…EotM is looking better and better….

Hexalot.8194:

briggah.7910:

400 to unlock everything so unless you start at level 1 its not as bad as it looks. I have 1 toon with 100% map and unlocked everything so far and I have 204 unspent HP..

Hmmm… you do realize it’s 400 hero points per character, right ? ;-)

Yes, I just logged into the toon I had the most things completed on to actually see how many points I had left over. I have 7 unspent points on an alt that has everything unlocked and only 3% map complete.

I dunno. 400 seems big at first but I’m just saying it might not be as bad as it sounds.

200 WvW ranks though, it’s not even viable to do!

That is quite frankly insane, achieving this purely in WvW will get me an elite spec by next March at earliest.

Yet again, WvW community shafted.

briggah.7910:

Hexalot.8194:

briggah.7910:

400 to unlock everything so unless you start at level 1 its not as bad as it looks. I have 1 toon with 100% map and unlocked everything so far and I have 204 unspent HP..

Hmmm… you do realize it’s 400 hero points per character, right ? ;-)

Yes, I just logged into the toon I had the most things completed on to actually see how many points I had left over. I have 7 unspent points on an alt that has everything unlocked and only 3% map complete.

I dunno. 400 seems big at first but I’m just saying it might not be as bad as it sounds.

It’s probably not, but that’s still a big number to just drop on people. I mean, if you do just HoT scrolls, that means you only need 40 (per character). (That’s a quite a few wvw ranks) It’s just a bit of a shocker.

The $1000 question is how many HPs are in the expansion area and how hard are they to get?
If one drops with every event; then I’m not going to sweat it. If you have to complete raids to get them…not grooving on it so much.

All that being said; that is very high though.

briggah.7910:

Hexalot.8194:

briggah.7910:

400 to unlock everything so unless you start at level 1 its not as bad as it looks. I have 1 toon with 100% map and unlocked everything so far and I have 204 unspent HP..

Hmmm… you do realize it’s 400 hero points per character, right ? ;-)

Yes, I just logged into the toon I had the most things completed on to actually see how many points I had left over. I have 7 unspent points on an alt that has everything unlocked and only 3% map complete.

I dunno. 400 seems big at first but I’m just saying it might not be as bad as it sounds.

As I was saying in another post, some of those 10 hero point challenges in the Jungle might very well be locked behind masteries (gliding, jumping, etc…) in that you may have to level those masteries before you can even reach some of them. Oh well… at least you can grind it in EOTMs if you are a WvWer.

It’s funny how all the bad details about this kitten are coming out the week of. I think if they’d have let all their dirt out then not many would have bought this kitten. Unbelievable.

Good thing I didn’t buy the xpac just for wvw…

illenos.5134:

vana.5467:

So from what I can tell, at 1 proof per rank and 5 proofs to a hero challenge (each worth 10 points), an elite specialization will require 200 WvW ranks and 6000 badges of honor.
Per character..?
kitten ..

Just do the PvE farm while getting drunk and hating yourself…it will be way faster.

^^ Thats my weekend all planned out then.

It’s not even launch yet and people are already mad. Anet really seems to know what they’re doing. Sadly the only response we’ll get from them is when we ask for a refund on the expansion.

Hexalot.8194:

briggah.7910:

Hexalot.8194:

briggah.7910:

400 to unlock everything so unless you start at level 1 its not as bad as it looks. I have 1 toon with 100% map and unlocked everything so far and I have 204 unspent HP..

Hmmm… you do realize it’s 400 hero points per character, right ? ;-)

Yes, I just logged into the toon I had the most things completed on to actually see how many points I had left over. I have 7 unspent points on an alt that has everything unlocked and only 3% map complete.

I dunno. 400 seems big at first but I’m just saying it might not be as bad as it sounds.

As I was saying in another post, some of those 10 hero point challenges in the Jungle might very well be locked behind masteries (gliding, jumping, etc…) in that you may have to level those masteries before you can even reach some of them. Oh well… at least you can grind it in EOTMs if you are a WvWer.

Undoubtedly some will be locked behind masteries in order to be able to get to them. We’ll have to see just how many though. Depending on how things are laid out, it might be possible to get a good chunk of them via basic HoT play, and then fill in the gaps with some of the easier to grab core challenges. Colin did say that there were enough HoT challenges to cover the full 400 points if you had none from the core game.

Still though, even not being a WvWer, I’ll probably be in EotM quite a lot…

what the actual kitten?????

that’s freaking ridiculous. i was excited... and getting moreso every day... now... honestly my first knee jerk reaction was "well crap. wtf is this bs? Anet i want my 100 bucks back"

It’s stuff like this that makes you all regret opposing open world pvp…

Imagine all the pveers you could make cry along the way with your massive hero point zergs… Imagine how fun it would be to guard those 10 point hero challenges with arrow carts and 50 people…

Vendetta.1958:

200 WvW ranks though, it’s not even viable to do!

That is quite frankly insane, achieving this purely in WvW will get me an elite spec by next March at earliest.

Yet again, WvW community shafted.

Few weeks ago many thought we would have to grind PVE to get the points.. Now we have the option to grind them in WvW if we want.. Not really shafted if you ask me..

briggah.7910:

Vendetta.1958:

200 WvW ranks though, it’s not even viable to do!

That is quite frankly insane, achieving this purely in WvW will get me an elite spec by next March at earliest.

Yet again, WvW community shafted.

Few weeks ago many thought we would have to grind PVE to get the points.. Now we have the option to grind them in WvW if we want.. Not really shafted if you ask me..

Think about how many rank ups you have to get to unlock one specialization. Then think about unlocking it for every class…and then cry about those guys who have more than 8 characters.

gosh, its so hard to wander around 4 maps. i guess ill have to grind instead.

Yea this is kind of obscene.

Wish I hadn’t pre-purchased. I loved playing the specs in beta, but I have no intention to grind my way through PvE or hundreds of WvW ranks just to get enjoyment from playing the game.

And just when I thought it couldn’t get any worse I find out that I would need about 1600 HP to unlock the 5 elite specializations that I want. That’s 1600 ranks. I’m at 1005 now and that took me about 18 months. So it would probably take me over 2 years to get it playing WvW.

I really don’t want to but I guess I have no choice but to farm HP in PvE maps. I’ll probably do something like a map every day so I don’t bore myself to death to much….

I thought the original story was that any character with map completion would have enough points to fully unlock the elite spec, no additional hero points required.

First Ascended armor necessary for raids, now this. And the grind for WvWers is even worse. Might as well just PvE. WvW will be dead for a few weeks if this is the case.

Grind Wars 2.

Thuggernaut.1250:

I thought the original story was that any character with map completion would have enough points to fully unlock the elite spec, no additional hero points required.

First Ascended armor necessary for raids, now this. And the grind for WvWers is even worse. Might as well just PvE. WvW will be dead for a few weeks if this is the case.

Grind Wars 2.

That was before the change that just getting to 80 was enough to unlock all the core skills and traits. The original statement was that characters with map completion would have enough for the core and the elite. The latter likely changed when they former was changed, and it’s probably still mostly true. They’ve said that skills and traits will be unlocked first (function over frill). So you’ll probably actually be able to get all of the skills and traits in the first 200-ish points. We shall see.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

That was before the change that just getting to 80 was enough to unlock all the core skills and traits. The original statement was that characters with map completion would have enough for the core and the elite. The latter likely changed when they former was changed, and it’s probably still mostly true. They’ve said that skills and traits will be unlocked first (function over frill). So you’ll probably actually be able to get all of the skills and traits in the first 200-ish points. We shall see.

Thanks for the explanation, I see what you’re saying. Let’s see how it plays out on Friday…

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Thuggernaut.1250:

I thought the original story was that any character with map completion would have enough points to fully unlock the elite spec, no additional hero points required.

First Ascended armor necessary for raids, now this. And the grind for WvWers is even worse. Might as well just PvE. WvW will be dead for a few weeks if this is the case.

Grind Wars 2.

That was before the change that just getting to 80 was enough to unlock all the core skills and traits. The original statement was that characters with map completion would have enough for the core and the elite. The latter likely changed when they former was changed, and it’s probably still mostly true. They’ve said that skills and traits will be unlocked first (function over frill). So you’ll probably actually be able to get all of the skills and traits in the first 200-ish points. We shall see.

Colin mentioned that it took 60 HPs just to unlock the first minor trait in the elite spec. If it’s spaced out that way, I highly doubt 140 points is going to be enough to unlock the rest of the trait plus utility skills.

Hexalot.8194:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Thuggernaut.1250:

I thought the original story was that any character with map completion would have enough points to fully unlock the elite spec, no additional hero points required.

First Ascended armor necessary for raids, now this. And the grind for WvWers is even worse. Might as well just PvE. WvW will be dead for a few weeks if this is the case.

Grind Wars 2.

That was before the change that just getting to 80 was enough to unlock all the core skills and traits. The original statement was that characters with map completion would have enough for the core and the elite. The latter likely changed when they former was changed, and it’s probably still mostly true. They’ve said that skills and traits will be unlocked first (function over frill). So you’ll probably actually be able to get all of the skills and traits in the first 200-ish points. We shall see.

Colin mentioned that it took 60 HPs just to unlock the first minor trait in the elite spec. If it’s spaced out that way, I highly doubt 140 points is going to be enough to unlock the rest of the trait plus utility skills.

I don’t see why it wouldn’t be. It currently costs 145 points to unlock 1 spec and one trait line that contains an elite skill. If we apply that 145 points, plus Colin’s statement of 60 points to “start using” the spec, that puts us at 205 points. Which leaves 195 points in which to spread out the new armor piece, weapon skin, rune, etc. Which, if that’s the way it works out, I could live with it. Even if it will be tedious to do on multiple characters.

Still, unless Colin offers us more info (ha ha), all we can do is wait and see.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Hexalot.8194:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Thuggernaut.1250:

I thought the original story was that any character with map completion would have enough points to fully unlock the elite spec, no additional hero points required.

First Ascended armor necessary for raids, now this. And the grind for WvWers is even worse. Might as well just PvE. WvW will be dead for a few weeks if this is the case.

Grind Wars 2.

That was before the change that just getting to 80 was enough to unlock all the core skills and traits. The original statement was that characters with map completion would have enough for the core and the elite. The latter likely changed when they former was changed, and it’s probably still mostly true. They’ve said that skills and traits will be unlocked first (function over frill). So you’ll probably actually be able to get all of the skills and traits in the first 200-ish points. We shall see.

Colin mentioned that it took 60 HPs just to unlock the first minor trait in the elite spec. If it’s spaced out that way, I highly doubt 140 points is going to be enough to unlock the rest of the trait plus utility skills.

I don’t see why it wouldn’t be. It currently costs 145 points to unlock 1 spec and one trait line that contains an elite skill. If we apply that 145 points, plus Colin’s statement of 60 points to “start using” the spec, that puts us at 205 points. Which leaves 195 points in which to spread out the new armor piece, weapon skin, rune, etc. Which, if that’s the way it works out, I could live with it. Even if it will be tedious to do on multiple characters.

Still, unless Colin offers us more info (ha ha), all we can do is wait and see.

Oh I could live with that as well. But ANET seems to be making it quite clear that they don’t want anyone unlocking elite specs within the first minute of launch. With what you’re saying, people with World Completion (roughly 215 pts I believe) are going to be doing just that.

Hexalot.8194:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Hexalot.8194:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Thuggernaut.1250:

I thought the original story was that any character with map completion would have enough points to fully unlock the elite spec, no additional hero points required.

First Ascended armor necessary for raids, now this. And the grind for WvWers is even worse. Might as well just PvE. WvW will be dead for a few weeks if this is the case.

Grind Wars 2.

That was before the change that just getting to 80 was enough to unlock all the core skills and traits. The original statement was that characters with map completion would have enough for the core and the elite. The latter likely changed when they former was changed, and it’s probably still mostly true. They’ve said that skills and traits will be unlocked first (function over frill). So you’ll probably actually be able to get all of the skills and traits in the first 200-ish points. We shall see.

Colin mentioned that it took 60 HPs just to unlock the first minor trait in the elite spec. If it’s spaced out that way, I highly doubt 140 points is going to be enough to unlock the rest of the trait plus utility skills.

I don’t see why it wouldn’t be. It currently costs 145 points to unlock 1 spec and one trait line that contains an elite skill. If we apply that 145 points, plus Colin’s statement of 60 points to “start using” the spec, that puts us at 205 points. Which leaves 195 points in which to spread out the new armor piece, weapon skin, rune, etc. Which, if that’s the way it works out, I could live with it. Even if it will be tedious to do on multiple characters.

Still, unless Colin offers us more info (ha ha), all we can do is wait and see.

Oh I could live with that as well. But ANET seems to be making it quite clear that they don’t want anyone unlocking elite specs within the first minute of launch. With what you’re saying, people with World Completion (roughly 215 pts I believe) are going to be doing just that.

214, but yeah. I don’t understand that particular stance…well I do, but I don’t see the big issue. Its not like people don’t have other crap they need to grind out. Besides, pvp gets the elites handed to them.

This is a ridiculous number. I understand elite specialization are meant to be about character progression and you want them to be meaningful but at this point, such a high number like this makes it required to do ALL of the PvE hero challenges or farm EOTM (inb4 we get a stealth nerf on ranking and badges from there before expac) :/ That’s pretty much just a grindfest. That’s not really progression, it is super rigid and not alt friendly at all.

People complaining about how it was too easy to get to level 80 with exotic gear and leaving the game cuz no end game is the reason we are here now. Grindy ascended gear, grindy elite spec, grindy mastery system, grindy guild halls. All in the name of progression. Yet somehow many of us were playing the game for 3 years and spending the vast majority of that time not leveling up something. Just doing what we enjoy.

This is really annoying to me since my guild is very interested in doing the raids. But now they have to grind out the ascended gear, hero points, and mastery points. Before tackling hard challenges, they have to tackle boredom.

I love how spvp is set up. Auto level 80. All skills and traits learned. Access to almost all sigils, runes, and amulets. Standardized gear. Your personal skill is what matters. While some progression is fine for pve/wvw, I think they are taking things too far now.

I do agree that part of the reason we’re here is because of the more ‘traditional’ MMOers not being able to cope with easily obtained lvl caps and max gear, but not completely. Part of the issue was lack of things to keep those people busy when they got that far, we should know better by now that people just don’t know how to entertain themselves without a carrot.

On the other hand, some grind is indeed necessary, though they might be going a bit overboard. We’ll have to see how long it actually takes people to start achieving some of these things before we judge too harshly.

“Again, hero challenges are worth 10 points each in the jungle. So no you don’t need to go do 200-400 jungle challenges.” -Colin

That makes things much better. Spending badges on the jungle challenges will be a much better investment.

misterdevious.6482:

“Again, hero challenges are worth 10 points each in the jungle. So no you don’t need to go do 200-400 jungle challenges.” -Colin

That makes things much better. Spending badges on the jungle challenges will be a much better investment.

lol

Just 200 ranks and 6000 badges to get all 40 challenges… iirc

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

misterdevious.6482:

“Again, hero challenges are worth 10 points each in the jungle. So no you don’t need to go do 200-400 jungle challenges.” -Colin

That makes things much better. Spending badges on the jungle challenges will be a much better investment.

lol

Just 200 ranks and 6000 badges to get all 40 challenges… iirc

i have the distinct feeling that proofs will not be strictly tied to ranking up.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

misterdevious.6482:

“Again, hero challenges are worth 10 points each in the jungle. So no you don’t need to go do 200-400 jungle challenges.” -Colin

That makes things much better. Spending badges on the jungle challenges will be a much better investment.

lol

Just 200 ranks and 6000 badges to get all 40 challenges… iirc

“Just” 200?

You gotta realize that is for every character (math isn’t verified yet though) and it only encourages one type of gameplay in WvW and it is NOT good for the gamemode.
It’s very artificial overall and it’s basically a grind. I don’t see any meaningful progression out of this.

Arcadio.6875:

People complaining about how it was too easy to get to level 80 with exotic gear and leaving the game cuz no end game is the reason we are here now. Grindy ascended gear, grindy elite spec, grindy mastery system, grindy guild halls. All in the name of progression. Yet somehow many of us were playing the game for 3 years and spending the vast majority of that time not leveling up something. Just doing what we enjoy.

I definitely agree. Part of what made Gw2 great was that it was getting away from banal and ultimately meaningless grindy progression. Before Gw2, I just accepted it as sort of a norm and realized how archaic these concepts are. An open ended approach was so much better. They even had pvp where they just normalized everything and to hell with gearing. Personally, I wouldn’t mind if they removed levels and strictly used gear just for variety but I understand that could cause issues.

Of course, some people couldn’t handle that and wanted to be special snowflakes yet lacked the imagination to approach open-ended progression thus needing developers to change the game so their hands would be held or otherwise the game exists only as a way to chase shinies. Honestly, Anet was spot on with the Skritt. And even as we speak, there is no end to the threads demanding Anet change the game to cater to their needs while removing other options. “omg people are speedrunning in zerker gear and making more gold than me! Get rid of Zerker!” while completely ignoring the impact it had in other modes. And hey, look a ferocity nerf for pve that gets forced upon WvW! WvW was impacted because some bads were kitten about stuff nobody cares like finishing a dungeon 2 minutes faster beyond a few bruised egos.

I’ll be frank. I think if we took every suggestion that existed, then this would be a much worse game than it is now. We have our progression now; and it’s every bit of what I expected. Amusing to poke at, annoying to live with. Ascended gear was the first step, and it was sorta alright because it was intended to be there anyways, but I don’t think this will see any end.

The problem is it seems like is that any kind of progression is never enough and the demand for treadmills increases, and well… everyone else gets dragged along. That doesn’t mean I won’t follow along, but I just question the point.

That’s just my penny though.

This is why you should never pre order.

insanemaniac.2456:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

misterdevious.6482:

“Again, hero challenges are worth 10 points each in the jungle. So no you don’t need to go do 200-400 jungle challenges.” -Colin

That makes things much better. Spending badges on the jungle challenges will be a much better investment.

lol

Just 200 ranks and 6000 badges to get all 40 challenges… iirc

i have the distinct feeling that proofs will not be strictly tied to ranking up.

The blog didn’t mention other means, but always possible.

Kitta.3657:

“Just” 200?

You gotta realize that is for every character (math isn’t verified yet though) and it only encourages one type of gameplay in WvW and it is NOT good for the gamemode.
It’s very artificial overall and it’s basically a grind. I don’t see any meaningful progression out of this.

Note the “lol” There was some mild sarcasm there.

Fortunately 400 WvW levels goes pretty fast once you learn some tricks. The obvious one is tagging every enemy keep, tower, camp so when it is flipped you get WxP even if you aren’t there. The easiest way is to either transfer to a strong server in a tier that flips paper constantly or head to EotM… course that is pretty grindy. With boosts though 400 WxP levels can go quickly.

400 levels, or even grabbing the hero points I have no problem with; it’s just that repeating it might be annoying.

What in the actual F……..
Well at least we won’t have to do the old content pve to fully unlock and elite spec.