Guild Wars 2

It feels good to save something of value from sneaky ninjas. It feels like griefing to save something of no value from the few hard-working people who are willing to come out and try to do anything at all.

In the past, if one or two people ran to defend a fully upgraded keep with a waypoint during the lonely hours and managed to thwart a small group from taking it… it was a good thing. It was a good feeling. Defending a keep meant preserving a waypoint and protecting the investment of time, effort, and cash that was used to upgrade it. It meant preserving a mobility advantage (and a 30s early-warning advantage that could be seen from other maps.) It meant preserving the siege built inside. It meant a lot.

Now, if one or two people run to defend a fully upgraded keep and manage to thwart the efforts of a small group… it feels wrong. It feels like griefing. A cannon is still up so they lose their inner ram. When they run out to get more supply, you repair the outer gate and destroy their outer ram. They come back, see the outer repaired, and they just quit. The map goes quiet for the next few hours. By defending something, you discourage people from trying to do anything and leave yourself with nothing to do.

Without a good reason to defend, defending just for PPT or just for spite feels cruel. Am I alone in thinking this, or has my brain simply been corrupted by spending a few days in EotM to farm hero points? There are so few people out on the borderlands these days that discouraging just one of them from playing seems like something we can’t afford.

Don’t let EoTM corrupt you!

PPT is what matters, not karma trains (otherwise they could just do EoTM as well).

If you wouldn’t defend the keep, then the small group would just PvD for some time, become bored and quit also. So don’t feel guilty

I find it boring if no one ever defends. If there are no enemies, what’s the point?

Its hard enough to take keeps with noone defending said keep

Now defending a keep feels like pouring salt on an open wound

If they were smart, they’d kill the door siege first. It takes just one extra trip to the supply camp but makes it much, much harder for a lone defender to ruin their day. If they fail to do that, they were betting on taking the objective uncontested…and I’ll be kitten ed if anyone in WvW gets away with that on my watch.

i am not sure if its tier 1 thing or not but most dont defend really. I remember when i was in CD we used to call for back up all the time to defend a wp keep and it was fun and challenging now even before hot in BG especially after you never get people coming to wvw to defend its not worth peoples time i guess. but most say ppt its pointless and it sure feels that way

sephiroth.4217:

WvW players got what they asked for.

-All fight guilds and roamers to go away as we didn’t contribute to PPT (which was a chunk of WvW population).
- Easier to defend structures
- removed siege grievers by adding siege
- removed upgrade grievers (which were most likely newbies trying to help) and put wvw on Auto pilot

Most of the roaming and fight guilds from WvW that I’ve met in the last 3 years have just become either PvP or rushing guild arenas now.

So yer WvW is just empty towers with a blob flipping them for their elite skills, trying to stop that now leaves a salty taste in the mouth. What was once a battleground to me for epic warfare for small groups, zergs and roamers alike is now just the old Queensdale champ farm train.

That the thing its harder to flip on the new BL becuse towers are much harder to take same with keeps. The old BL where much easier to run that flip meta.

So its not flipping that drooping pop. it the fact that its harder to flip. Most ppl want that flip meta even if they do not say it.

BTW griefing would be the old upgrading system or building rams where they are not needed lol.

sephiroth.4217:

WvW players got what they asked for.

-All fight guilds and roamers to go away as we didn’t contribute to PPT (which was a chunk of WvW population).
- Easier to defend structures
- removed siege grievers by adding siege
- removed upgrade grievers (which were most likely newbies trying to help) and put wvw on Auto pilot

You can check my post history. I literally spent at least 500 hours on these forums, but never requested any of these. And I am sure many other WvWvW players didn’t want them either. It is just that Arenanet developers have tendency to cherry pick bad ideas from forums and often ignore good ideas.

WvWvW should continue to cater many different play styles: from solo roaming to massive zone wide blob fights. Both should be fun and possible in the same map.

I didn’t ask for easier to defend structures. I was asking for better rewards for scouts and defenders. I know some people will rush here and tell me “nobody plays WvWvW for rewards”, but hey why do then so many brag how many heavy loot bags + exotic drops they got tonight. So of course reward matter for many.

I have asked for less Siege Wars 2. Finally Arenanet fixed AC line of sight and it feels more balanced now. Still a bit overpowered in my honest opinion. Trebuchet radius and cow ammo draining supplies still need to be toned down, not to mention Omega Golems.

Game design is difficult. Most people play games for fun and for social reasons. Arenanet should adjust WvWvW back to such state it is fun for most. Reverting back to old is better than forcing players to “adjust”, because “adjusting” means many will just spend much less time here.

You lost me at “defending an objective from being overtaken by the enemy feels like griefing”

Of course you’re causing them hardship. That’s the point of WvW. It doesn’t exist to hand out loot, despite what the poorly designed reward system may make you believe. It exists to take over the map, and prevent your enemies from taking it back

PopeUrban.2578:

Of course you’re causing them hardship. That’s the point of WvW. It doesn’t exist to hand out loot, despite what the poorly designed reward system may make you believe. It exists to take over the map, and prevent your enemies from taking it back

Stopping an attack without engaging the defenders is probably not working as intended.

I understand this train of thought but I think if people truly want to WvW they won’t be discouraged from playing by a few defenders.

The problem is that at this point, almost anything can make people want to not play anymore. Fights and effort are what (for I hope most of us) make WvW enjoyable. If there’s no one to defend it just becomes a karma train and that’s when people stop playing, at least after they’ve taken everything in sight.

I’d say if you feel like you’re griefing then you should hop off the siege, get outside and fight. We’re pretty dead on Darkhaven compared to how we were pre-HoT release but we had some really good fights defending Durios last night. As usual, most of our players would rather go head to head with a threat than building a bunch of siege. So we spent a good 30 minutes or more pushing and pulling Sorrow’s Furnace until they overcame us. Had we just sat inside, built a bunch of arrow carts and waited for them to come through the hole in the wall, those fights wouldn’t have happened. They’d have said screw this and gone somewhere else because fighting siege isn’t fun when the enemy clearly has enough numbers to retaliate. Unless you’re outnumbered, you and your servermates should always give it a fair few tries before building siege. Get off the walls and see what you can manage.

Here’s a pic of me defending Air Keep from 5 guys, using a shield generator. They had a sup cata and eventually built a ballista, but the ballista could only hit with the AoE attack.

• Shield bubble was blocking half the shots of the cata and the ballista
• Shield bouncy bubble was constantly knocking people off the cata and damaging it.
• Shield wall was preventing people from getting back on the cata immediately.
• They only had one guy that was able to hit my shield gen from down there.

This defense felt more like trolling than griefing… “no… no… no… you can’t fire that catapult.”

I used to know an Englishman who would get giddy when he came up with a new treb defense spot to try in hills. He loved defending hills and sieging it up. Now, I’m excited about the possibilities of this new shield generator siege and I’ve been experimenting with it. But when you’re alone on the map… and no one cares if the air keep flips… and no one is going to come to help… and simply buying time just feels like a waste of time… and you don’t even get defense credit unless somebody dies or you repair a wall… Defending feels like a waste of time. Driving them off feels like a hollow victory. My shield generator did eventually win and take out the superior catapult and they left, and they didn’t try again.

I don’t feel like a homeowner standing his ground to save his family from a homeinvader… I feel like a guy that went to Wendy’s, and decided to defend the ketchup packets by biting anyone that comes near.

In my opinion keeps should to be hard to take… I like to run in small groups but try think how a 5 man group could conquer a castle? It makes no sense… keeps and castles must be something hard to get, it requires a lot of work, it should not be impossible for small group to take it but it has to be hard as hell. Larger structures demands larger groups.

Small groups should focus on smaller targets, like towers and camps.

keep should be hard to take IF defended… If no one is inside there is no reason that you can’t take it with 3 people.

This is backward thinking.

The game need more incentives to defend, not easier to flip objectives to make rapidly attacking and flipping objectives the best route for advancement. This whole ‘why can’t we flip a tower with 3 people’ mentality has been a plague on WvW since the jump. Nobody cares about having objectives, and they never have because having objectives is worthless outside of a completely broken scoring system that doesn’t care how long you’ve actually held them.

The fact people only care about the act of flipping rather than maintaining control of objectives is the problem with wvw. Meaningful upgrades are a step in the right direction, but the current implementation of getting objectives for doing literally nothing, and not rewarding people who go out of their way to defend them is stupid thinking.

The entire WvW design team needs to be let go, and it is a long time coming.

There is not now, nor has there ever been anything engaging about fighting over objectives that do nothing but award “points” in a game mode that requires both gold and resources. You don’t capture objectives in order to build siege. You murder 50 people and hand some tokens to a merchant. You don’t protect your supply lines to ensure a successful assault. You quick flip a camp and fall upon it like angry ants and build siegeworks in a matter of seconds.

It is literally the worst siege implementation in all of online gaming.

WvW is a giant money pit that rewards flipping far better than actually playing it as intended, and this has been a problem since launch. Arenanet does not have a single designer familiar with what makes MMO siege mechanics meaningful or fun. It isn;t about having mass battles. it’s about having mass battles because what you are fighting over has significance and meaning in an economic sense within the confines of the game you are playing

You reward loot at a far greater rate for simply walking in to an open field and beating each other in the head that you do for holding a keep. This is backward. All that loot should come from owning rather than taking objectives. That what makes people care about owning them in the first place, and the desire to take them comes from that.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

So we spent a good 30 minutes or more pushing and pulling Sorrow’s Furnace until they overcame us.

Was fun stuff last night; shame SF’s presence is almost entirely on one guild raiding. Dat EBay blob, though. I don’t even know where they get their numbers or how they can sardine themselves in a single map like that ._.

But yea, while I think the OP is on to something in regards to the general appeal of WvW not promoting rewards to really get players pushing to take objectives or defend, this is a competitive game mode, and WvW is meant to be even more brutal in regards to capitalizing on the enemy when given the chance.

It should be about fights one way or another, but striking the balance between rewarding combat/assaulting and defending is difficult. Otherwise you have servers like YB that are pretty much well-disliked among the WvW community which just turtle structures and build defensive siege for hours on end while not really ever engaging the enemy.

PopeUrban.2578:

All that loot should come from owning rather than taking objectives.

That is a very good point. Something like if your guild claim something you will earn ressources over time for the guild bank.
Maybe need to “refresh” your claim every 3/4H. If one guild want to claim something she had to defend it and manage it.

Sich.7103:

PopeUrban.2578:

All that loot should come from owning rather than taking objectives.

That is a very good point. Something like if your guild claim something you will earn ressources over time for the guild bank.
Maybe need to “refresh” your claim every 3/4H. If one guild want to claim something she had to defend it and manage it.

Thats a good idea, buying wvw upgrades for the guild could be based on something it earns by claiming something… like every 15 minutes the guild gets a claim point and with x claim points it can buy a new wvw upgrade.

PopeUrban.2578:

snip

You have a point but holding objectives is worth it since that is where a lot of awesome fights happen – or better happened. To me the imbalance is the main problem of wvw – with that I mean: Imbalance regarding stability/boon stealing, general class imblance, whether or not the damage AC do is justified, AoE ranges of classes and so on. It really is quantity instead of quality and that is sad. I’d rather have that fixed first before trying the next new things with wvw.

In my opinion they changed too many things at once. Might have been better if the new maps were introduced a few weeks after HoT and if we had the auto upgrades first to give feedback on only the auto upgrades which have quite an impact on wvw as do the new maps.

ETA: And I’m not sure if I’m happy about small guilds being dismissed for wvw as it has been the small guilds and roamers who upgraded everything in the off hours (at least EU – NA is a different field).

Mitz.5741:

Its hard enough to take keeps with noone defending said keep

Now defending a keep feels like pouring salt on an open wound

Before flipping things was far too easy, but now it’s ridiculously difficult. They need to figure out a way to balance it out somewhat, but that’s likely too much trouble for an understaffed company that doesn’t even understand what a large(but steadily shrinking) chunk of their playerbase desires.

Mitz.5741:

Its hard enough to take keeps with noone defending said keep

Now defending a keep feels like pouring salt on an open wound

Taking a keep with no defenders was ridiculously easy with the old system. Now it’s only normal level easy since keep lords have more variety to them and are not pushovers. It can still be done with 2 people by the way, it just takes more time and requires both people to know their professions reasonably well.

PopeUrban.2578:

snip

I agree with almost all of this. Increasing the incentive to defend is good and auto upgrades are a step in the right direction. However rewards for defending also needs to be increasing, because as somebody else mentioned above, you could successfully push back a superior force with lesser numbers, but unless you kill one of the attackers, you actually get no rewards. Unfortunately this isn’t an easy problem to solve, for example if you simply reward someone who happens to be in the area and did some damage to an enemy during the defend event, then that could be very easily abused.

Nate.3927:

PopeUrban.2578:

snip

I agree with almost all of this. Increasing the incentive to defend is good and auto upgrades are a step in the right direction. However rewards for defending also needs to be increasing, because as somebody else mentioned above, you could successfully push back a superior force with lesser numbers, but unless you kill one of the attackers, you actually get no rewards. Unfortunately this isn’t an easy problem to solve, for example if you simply reward someone who happens to be in the area and did some damage to an enemy during the defend event, then that could be very easily abused.

Not that hard to abuse… if they added something similar to (but not identical to) the buggy participation mechanic in HoT, in which the person who assisted has to remain in the area until (or return to it before) the defense event ends to receive their reward.

Just remove reward for taking ; defending.
And give reward to hold to the guild who claim. Reward increase during time, and no reward for 30min. And auto unclaim after few times (2H ? more ?) if no one from this guild go inside the structure and speak to some npc.
At least it’s the main idea.

Sich.7103:

Just remove reward for taking ; defending.
And give reward to hold to the guild who claim. Reward increase during time, and no reward for 30min. And auto unclaim after few times (2H ? more ?) if no one from this guild go inside the structure and speak to some npc.
At least it’s the main idea.

Good idea, so we all have to be in one guild, right? Why not make it server wide instead – oh wait, that’s what we’ve got.

your server earn nothing with ppt…. oh great, you win the MU… and then ? Oh you can get some bonus chest… I think much about ressources / gold reward directly in the guild bank… Or another currency to upgrade your guild hall to be able to upgrade your guild…
Actually you need to farm pve to upgrade WvW stuff….

Sich.7103:

your server earn nothing with ppt…. oh great, you win the MU… and then ? Oh you can get some bonus chest… I think much about ressources / gold reward directly in the guild bank… Or another currency to upgrade your guild hall to be able to upgrade your guild…
Actually you need to farm pve to upgrade WvW stuff….

Why only guilds? Don’t you think that those in small guilds who can’t affort to upgrade their guild significantly deserve rewards as well?
And in the end; I think no one really plays wvw for the rewards, even if they were better.

ETA: Or those who are helping with holding an objective but aren’t in the guild that claimed said objective.

In the end now the wholeserver profits from everything everybody does – and I think it would be better if it stayed that way – no idea how the new guild buffs will work out, maybe they’re already going away from that.

Yeah, small guild should be able to claim in WvW, and then claiming stuff should help to upgrade the hall… You should be able to upgrade your guild (with time) just at playing WvW…. And those claiming bonus is a way for that.
As during off peak time there is a lot of small roaming / defensive team this can help those guild.
And I speak about guild because how do you want to give ressources / bonus to all players on the server ? Wich player should receive something ? Those who only log in for the daily ? Those who run dolly / build defensive siege but take close to nothing ? Those who only KT with a map blob ?

I’m was to be a solo players, but I was in the community guild… And now with HoT and the multiple guild chanel I’m in a defensive scout team. You can always find a guild to join.

The problem is to give the ability to all guild to build there guild hall / upgrade and to be able to claim something in the game without those pve farming stuff and all that gold…

I’m in 3 guilds, and no one of them is playing wvw with me – I would hate it to be forced into a guild just to get rewards for my work.

ETA: So in the end your idea (if I got it right) would backfire as bigger guilds could afford to make several guilds and claim all of the objectives while the rest of the players gets nothing.

no point to make several guild if you need days and days to get all the upgrade…
And if those rewards are only for the guild and can’t be sell or used by players…
And with the auto unclaim you need to have people on the map to earn the reward.

Sich.7103:

no point to make several guild if you need days and days to get all the upgrade…
And if those rewards are only for the guild and can’t be sell or used by players…
And with the auto unclaim you need to have people on the map to earn the reward.

Some guilds are that huge.
I don’t think this is a good idea, sorry, because griefers would abuse it – and we’ve already had that.

well, idk… Probably on some server… To be honest we don’t see guys like that on Piken… As we don’t see too much supply troll or upgrade troll.. But I really think we have to find something to help guild upgrading inside WvW and allow small guild to get the wvw upgrade without farming pve and gold.
And we have to find something to reward holding stuff more that taking stuff…

I’m open to all idea about that.

Guild rewards for holding things aren’t really appropriate since it adds an element of competition within your team. WvW at its core hold a simple assumption that all the guys on your team are, like all players in a PvE server, working toward the same goal.

Guilds should be employing their buffs and tactics in support of the team, not at the expense of team members not in their guild.

I believe the following changes would reward all current modes of play, for havok to zerg scale play, while encouraging and rewarding teamwork and playing to win rather than encouraging metgaming and flipping. This system incentivizes helping your team hold and upgrade objectives as the primary reward activity, and uses an overall participation metric to administer rewards, ensuring that no matter if you’re killing yaks, flipping sentries, or simply solo roaming, if you’re helping, you’re getting loot, and the better your team does, the better you do as well.

• Remove all loot gained by killing other players and for completing events. Retain the wxp rewards for these activities.

• In stead, use the HoT map meta system, with a twist. It has 5 tiers. Tiers 1 and 2 represent ownership of assets in SM, and tiers 3-5 represent owning all assets in all borderlands. Thus, taking assets from an enemy raises your team’s WvW meta level, and lowers theirs. Basically, owning more stuff, now matter what map it is one, means more loot for your entire team, in the same manner as owning more stuff increases your score.

• Grant participation for defend, escort, and attack events, as well as for player kills and building/destroying siege.

• Participation is account, not map based.

• Participation decays at a rate of 10% every 15 minutes.

• Every 15 minutes (when the score ticks over) grant all players with 100% or more participation a loot chest containing resources, badges, etc. You do not gain additional loot for percentages over 100%, this simply serves as a buffer so you can “overfill” participation, creating a buffer to keep people legitimately participating in wvw from losing out on rewards if they were doing recon or defense for a bit without any action.

• Upgraded objectives add bonus loot/materials to the reward chests for the entire team, as do claiming guild’s bonuses (ex. the magic find buff applies to the reward chests, and stacks for every objective.) This means that holding a large number of objectives and upgrading them results in more and more loot for your team.

• WvW loot chests should grant all materials required for hall upgrades and tactics in addition to normal loot. This means that playing WvW well, supporting your team, and playing to win also means being rewarded for it and allowing you to upgrade and deploy tactics effectively.

PopeUrban.2578:

Guild rewards for holding things aren’t really appropriate since it adds an element of competition within your team. WvW at its core hold a simple assumption that all the guys on your team are, like all players in a PvE server, working toward the same goal.

Guilds should be employing their buffs and tactics in support of the team, not at the expense of team members not in their guild.

I believe the following changes would reward all current modes of play, for havok to zerg scale play, while encouraging and rewarding teamwork and playing to win rather than encouraging metgaming and flipping. This system incentivizes helping your team hold and upgrade objectives as the primary reward activity, and uses an overall participation metric to administer rewards, ensuring that no matter if you’re killing yaks, flipping sentries, or simply solo roaming, if you’re helping, you’re getting loot, and the better your team does, the better you do as well.

• Remove all loot gained by killing other players and for completing events. Retain the wxp rewards for these activities.

• In stead, use the HoT map meta system, with a twist. It has 5 tiers. Tiers 1 and 2 represent ownership of assets in SM, and tiers 3-5 represent owning all assets in all borderlands. Thus, taking assets from an enemy raises your team’s WvW meta level, and lowers theirs. Basically, owning more stuff, now matter what map it is one, means more loot for your entire team, in the same manner as owning more stuff increases your score.

• Grant participation for defend, escort, and attack events, as well as for player kills and building/destroying siege.

• Participation is account, not map based.

• Participation decays at a rate of 10% every 15 minutes.

• Every 15 minutes (when the score ticks over) grant all players with 100% or more participation a loot chest containing resources, badges, etc. You do not gain additional loot for percentages over 100%, this simply serves as a buffer so you can “overfill” participation, creating a buffer to keep people legitimately participating in wvw from losing out on rewards if they were doing recon or defense for a bit without any action.

• Upgraded objectives add bonus loot/materials to the reward chests for the entire team, as do claiming guild’s bonuses (ex. the magic find buff applies to the reward chests, and stacks for every objective.) This means that holding a large number of objectives and upgrading them results in more and more loot for your team.

• WvW loot chests should grant all materials required for hall upgrades and tactics in addition to normal loot. This means that playing WvW well, supporting your team, and playing to win also means being rewarded for it and allowing you to upgrade and deploy tactics effectively.

NO

Adding the Silverwaste system or the HoT system would be good for additional incentive but all of the old rewards need to stay or people will just say screw it completely. Not everyone can play for long enough periods of time to get those earned rewards and what happens if they DC right before a tick after they were just on an awesome killing spree? I’ll tell you what happens, they lose the reward because you get booted out of the mist and back to Tyria from a DC. Which is a surefire way to guarantee players in this buggy, laggy, game never participate in WvW again.

So I repeat NO. Its a bad idea to remove the current rewards. WvW needs the rewards boosted anyways so an additional reward system based on PPT and participation would be very well accepted. Believe me I think adding a PPT/participation system is great idea but it has to be in addition to and not as a replacement to existing rewards.

As somebody else already said: This is very backward thinking…
You seem to want a game that removes all obstructions (gates/walls). If you put some thought into it, if all gates were permanently left open you would get the kind of gameplay you are describing as desirable.

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

PopeUrban.2578:

Guild rewards for holding things aren’t really appropriate since it adds an element of competition within your team. WvW at its core hold a simple assumption that all the guys on your team are, like all players in a PvE server, working toward the same goal.

Guilds should be employing their buffs and tactics in support of the team, not at the expense of team members not in their guild.

I believe the following changes would reward all current modes of play, for havok to zerg scale play, while encouraging and rewarding teamwork and playing to win rather than encouraging metgaming and flipping. This system incentivizes helping your team hold and upgrade objectives as the primary reward activity, and uses an overall participation metric to administer rewards, ensuring that no matter if you’re killing yaks, flipping sentries, or simply solo roaming, if you’re helping, you’re getting loot, and the better your team does, the better you do as well.

• Remove all loot gained by killing other players and for completing events. Retain the wxp rewards for these activities.

• In stead, use the HoT map meta system, with a twist. It has 5 tiers. Tiers 1 and 2 represent ownership of assets in SM, and tiers 3-5 represent owning all assets in all borderlands. Thus, taking assets from an enemy raises your team’s WvW meta level, and lowers theirs. Basically, owning more stuff, now matter what map it is one, means more loot for your entire team, in the same manner as owning more stuff increases your score.

• Grant participation for defend, escort, and attack events, as well as for player kills and building/destroying siege.

• Participation is account, not map based.

• Participation decays at a rate of 10% every 15 minutes.

• Every 15 minutes (when the score ticks over) grant all players with 100% or more participation a loot chest containing resources, badges, etc. You do not gain additional loot for percentages over 100%, this simply serves as a buffer so you can “overfill” participation, creating a buffer to keep people legitimately participating in wvw from losing out on rewards if they were doing recon or defense for a bit without any action.

• Upgraded objectives add bonus loot/materials to the reward chests for the entire team, as do claiming guild’s bonuses (ex. the magic find buff applies to the reward chests, and stacks for every objective.) This means that holding a large number of objectives and upgrading them results in more and more loot for your team.

• WvW loot chests should grant all materials required for hall upgrades and tactics in addition to normal loot. This means that playing WvW well, supporting your team, and playing to win also means being rewarded for it and allowing you to upgrade and deploy tactics effectively.

NO

Adding the Silverwaste system or the HoT system would be good for additional incentive but all of the old rewards need to stay or people will just say screw it completely. Not everyone can play for long enough periods of time to get those earned rewards and what happens if they DC right before a tick after they were just on an awesome killing spree? I’ll tell you what happens, they lose the reward because you get booted out of the mist and back to Tyria from a DC. Which is a surefire way to guarantee players in this buggy, laggy, game never participate in WvW again.

So I repeat NO. Its a bad idea to remove the current rewards. WvW needs the rewards boosted anyways so an additional reward system based on PPT and participation would be very well accepted. Believe me I think adding a PPT/participation system is great idea but it has to be in addition to and not as a replacement to existing rewards.

Design decisions should not revolve around users that have connection problems. That is a software engineering or user issue, not a game design issue. It’s like saying dishonor shouldn’t exist in sPvP because it can inconvenience people with crashes and crap connections, despite the fact that the vast majority of players don’t have these issues. Yes. Dishonor sucks if you DC. however the positive effect (encouraging people to not cheese and play against the objective design of the content) far outweighs the negative effect. I believe this is also true of an objectives and teamplay focused wvw loot rewards revamp like what I’ve listed.

The proper response to technical issues is to fixes anything in the client or server achitecture that causes crashes and disconnections, not just go “welp, people are going to crash and DC all the time, let’s not fix it and in stead design the game around that”

As for the “long enough time” argument, it’s fair, but the current system encourages metagaming and generally unhelpful play. How about in stead of a hard lockout at 100%, the 0-100% is just a scalar. At most you’d be “required” to play for 15 minutes, and in that time you could reasonably assume earning a participation of at least 25% which is far shorter than the average wvw session, and would pay out about what it does now.

Expecting to get top end rewards for playing extremely short sessions in a game mode not built around short session play is the wrong way to think about it. WvW is not now nor has it ever been a mode designed for short play sessions. All of its siege and supply mechanics are designed around longer play sessions.