Guild Wars 2

The way commanders are treated in WvW on Ferguson’s is despicable! Everyone only wants to take take take, no one wants to listen when you ask them to defend. You know, you wanted commanders to stay that were active in WvW and you got 3 from [Np] that didn’t want to leave. I get told I’m the worst commander on the server, and it makes me question my decision. I know the commander title can be bought, I’ve tried my damnedest to earn it. I will give it a week to change my mind, then I will most likely join my friends on Ehmery Bay.

The fact that you chose to grieve this publicly and then gave the FC community an ultimatum says more than your actual post.

If the server is, in fact, despicable (which I doubt), then why wait? How are your friends better off — deprived of your loving companionship — for yet another week?

If the server is not despicable, then you’ve certainly slathered it on thick with broad brushstrokes — that is unlikely to win you new friends or influence people to your cause, so why wait? How do you expect other people to “change your mind”?

Since your “mind” is apparently subjective, is it even reasonable or fair to expect anyone to know your mind well enough to help change it?

You’ve already made your decision. Own it and don’t deflect blame for a uniquely personal decision onto others.

I never had a problem with you Ramen, don’t let the trolls get you down.

Haters gonna hate.

our pugs in EB tend to have a strange obsession with the castle… but apart from that the only trouble i have gathering defenders is when we have 5 people on our border.

Eh don’t worry about them. To be fair, with this constant bashing from superior numbers, then the exodus of more people morale is going to be down. And who do they blame? They blame those in charge. So do not fret, just keep leading if you choose to. You and Amenita (pardon if i spelled it wrong) are doing a good job.

So do not worry, just keep at it, and have fun.

FC: E R I O N D (OMNI)

Ramen, you are an awesome commander. I know that you and Amaenita put your heart and soul into it. You are appreciated by the many who don’t tell you that often enough. The problem is not you. You are truly awesome, and I would be sad if you left. We wouldn’t have any hope at all then.

The problem is a game that does not reward anyone for defending. The only reward for an individual is to zerg around the map over and over again. That’s not your fault. It’s poor game design. (Software tester by trade here. I know a usability/design defect when I see one.) The problem is a game that allows us to get run over by zergs over and over again, without any way to truly defend. The other day, I spent all the cash I had to upgrade the garrision and build siege, and Kain walked in with 3 golems, and more people than I had ever seen, and took the garrison in less time than it took me to yell for help. People are frustrated. They no longer see any value in defending something that Kain can take in less than a minute. Kain is doing exactly what Dev did to us. It’s deja vu, and we never recovered from the last steamrolling. The way the game is structured makes it no contest for a server like ours. I would love to be engaging with ET right now, they seem like a lot of fun, but the fact that Kain has more people than our two servers put together makes this a no win situation. And unfortunately, some people take it out on our commanders. Please don’t take it personally. Those of us who still haven’t given up love the job you are doing. I often pop in to see what is going on, and stay to play if you or Ama are commanding. Like Harbinger said, haters are gonna hate. Don’t let them win. Let them be the ones to leave. We are all doing our best to maintain morale, knowing we can never win, and knowing that people are ditching our server because of it. Don’t let them get you, or us down. If you leave, we all lose.
~Nyx
(Edited for typos and clarity)

Leaders get more hate then they do praise. That’s part of the job.
ppl will show hate over praise. And if your doing good it’s not you it’s the Army
Personally if you can’t handle the hate you ain’t cut out for the job.
And that’s the simple truth of it.
you may know.how to lead, but if you take everything personal you cant lead effectively.

As a FC resident, I can’t say I hate any of the Commanders I’ve worked with. Frankly, it’s like any title/job – some folk live up to it, others don’t. I’m willing to do biz with anyone who wants what I want (WvW-wise): namely, our guys getting out of the hole and staying out. Ramen is right, though, RE: most folks prioritising taking turf over holding it. I know I myself have told folk at times it’s better to keep our basic stuff under control during our lower-population times., then grab others when possible.

Fact remains, we’re currently fighting a defensive battle. That always has to start and end at one central, well-reinforced point.

Personally if you can’t handle the hate you ain’t cut out for the job.
And that’s the simple truth of it.

I have to disagree with this sentiment here. This is a game. Our commanders aren’t trained army leaders. They are people just like the rest of us, trying to help us all have fun, and maybe win once in a while. To expect that they have the outer crust of a seasoned warrior is unreasonable.
Sometimes the anonymity of the internet makes us forget the simple fact that we are all just regular people, trying to have a good time. She’s a good leader, and she does it effectively. The personal attacks on her are uncalled for, and telling her to toughen up is not appropriate either. It wasn’t fun when we had a leader that swore and called everyone names. I nearly left myself when that was going on. That was not an effective leader, and I’m sure that person didn’t care about the haters. But Ramen and others stepped up and made it fun again. It’s a game and we are struggling to keep playing in the face of a company that sees no need to make the battles a little less one-sided. Taking it personally doesn’t make her ineffective. It makes her a real person. I wish she wouldn’t take it personally, because such things are hurtful and I don’t want to see her hurting from the unkindness of trolls that think playing as a toon means they can be jerks. But in no way do I think it makes her ineffective.

The people of FC have long realized that defending doesn’t matter against the zerg servers, that’s why they don’t want to defend with you.

Being a Commander is often a thankless task.. the same holds true for those who spend their time leading WvW but can’t afford commander status.

It’s already been said, but I’d like to re-emphasize the fact that Commanders gain nothing extra from taking on that responsibility. We don’t get more rewards from sieges.. we don’t get any fancy armor or titles. All we have is that little blue icon, and the expectation that we ourselves will place most of the siege weapons and buy a majority of upgrades.. Because that’s what it takes to be successful in the massive gold-sink that is WvW.

The only commanders that deserve to be put-down are those that effect server morale by insulting others. You can have personal preferences for commanders based on their level of success, but never forget that all of them are trying their hardest to help others enjoy the WvW experience.

Leading can certainly be frustrating. Leading on a low pop server is especially hard, trust me I lead on Eredon where even your low pop server outnumbers us and kain outnumbers us most day 3-6 to 1 at a minimum.

I do have to say though that on Eredon I have only had a couple time where people openly said stuff, most of the time it is the opposite. You get praise even when we die O.o, the hey it was a good try kind of thing. Anyways…..

There are plenty of servers. I had to change servers 6 times to find one I liked. Even leaving friends from other games to find a place I was happy. I’d suggest changing serves, you sound too frustrated to stay and this is a game and not worth the misery.

Ramen, there are always going to be a handful who disagree with how you perform. It’s not an easy task to lead and direct people, and more often its a thankless job and you’ll get insults over it. I know this personally because my efforts with the Vanguard often gain me more criticism than what I’d like to admit. All leaders, whether guild leaders, commanders, or other, will get this kind of flak from people who think they have a better idea, but would rather tear down your credibility rather than work hard to prove their own.

Despite all of this, you have a commanders icon, which people look for to group around, so whether you’re good or bad, you’re still a singular point on the map that people can group around. You’re helping our WvW just by having the icon up and ‘doing’ something. I personally can’t vouch for your leadership abilities because I’ve never been in the same map as you long enough to really notice, but you have the icon, and you ARE trying, and that helps, and those who want to tear you down over it are the ones who risk damaging our server further, whether they realize it or not.

Personally, I hope you don’t leave. I hope you can find the reason you need to stick with Ferguson’s.

-Meilin Feigal-

MiceElf.6897:

I have to disagree with this sentiment here. This is a game. Our commanders aren’t trained army leaders. They are people just like the rest of us, trying to help us all have fun, and maybe win once in a while. To expect that they have the outer crust of a seasoned warrior is unreasonable.

What is unreasonable is to ignorantly purchase a commander book without an understanding of the difficult responsibility that comes with the honor of serving.

A commander can’t pick his/her army. S/he must fight with the army at hand and train the army of tomorrow. Everyone resists change. People do what they know. And when what they know isn’t working, they will make every excuse to avoid change — they will blame every factor before looking inward.

If one is unaware of the challenges of leadership, then one is unprepared to face the challenges of leadership.

It is reasonable to presume that one would invest adequate time in wvw, develop a sense of the leadership landscape, and earn a starting reputation as a deputy commander or support leader well in advance of putting on the pin.

It is reasonable to expect commanders to be more than “people just like the rest of us.”

It is reasonable to expect commanders to be people with (above average) charisma, courage, determination, battlefield awareness, and/or guile.

It is reasonable to expect new or young commanders to be unprepared for all the challenges of leadership and that they would seek out mentors to shepherd them to a better place.

It is reasonable to expect more from a commander than from a non-commander.

And not everyone is cut out to be a commander. While anyone can buy a commander pin… leadership is not the end-game for everyone. The more people that realize this, the less painful will be the awakening.

No, I reject your premise. It is an honor to serve. Command (leadership) is a privilege… not a right.

Darek.1836:

The people of FC have long realized that defending doesn’t matter against the zerg servers, that’s why they don’t want to defend with you.

Just as a note…DR often commented on how they HATED FC because of their incredible defense. FCBL was -always- fully upgraded, and was a nightmare for them to get into. So saying that FC doesn’t defend is kinda silly. >.>

The people who did defend are mostly not there anymore.

TheDoctor.1760:

The way commanders are treated in WvW on Ferguson’s is despicable! Everyone only wants to take take take, no one wants to listen when you ask them to defend. You know, you wanted commanders to stay that were active in WvW and you got 3 from [Np] that didn’t want to leave. I get told I’m the worst commander on the server, and it makes me question my decision. I know the commander title can be bought, I’ve tried my damnedest to earn it. I will give it a week to change my mind, then I will most likely join my friends on Ehmery Bay.

Here’s something that I’ll share as some might consider this as “fair-weathered” playing.

(Read the related thread here)

Know when you have lost, and take the best advantage out of it.

If it is clear that no matter how much of a defense you have placed, and you still cannot stop the force and catch up in score, just do like those who are doing karma train. Cap, and salvage all the karma/exp out of it, and wait for another fight.

You need to learn how to change your attitude. I feel you down there, as I was once in your shoe too.

Instead of fighting with the frustration, look at it at another way, it’ll reduce alot of stress, and avoid getting burned out.

Let me add on a side story on my SoS history to show you as an example.

As most know, and I have personally said it many times, We are a PvE guild.

We always looks at WvW in a PvE way, not so much as PvP yet.

We work together, and help each other.

Back in the day when Kaineng was still an underdog

Our daily routine in WvW is as follows.

1. Everyone group up at the bottom of the BL JP
2. Have a mesmer portal to both keys
3. Grab the chest.
4. Having all the member who does not know how to use Siege to donate them to me.
5. Start taking the nearest supply camp and start rolling the karma train until it get stopped.

That’s all. This builds up ALOT of sieges, and I mean, ALOT.

Thanks to that, so when we are doing WvW, commanders like myself know when to place siege can maximize the benefits of the siege, and you can also give sieges to others when needed.

That’s just my little secret.

It is reasonable to expect commanders to be people with (above average) charisma, courage, determination, battlefield awareness, and/or guile.

It is reasonable to expect new or young commanders to be unprepared for all the challenges of leadership and that they would seek out mentors to shepherd them to a better place.

Wow. Again, I feel the need to point out – it’s just a game, and we are all just normal people. Really.

Some people take this way too seriously. You act like you’re in an actual battle fighting for your lives. Guess what happens when you die, nothing. You just turn off your pc and go on with your life.

It’s a game chill out.

MiceElf.6897:

Wow. Again, I feel the need to point out – it’s just a game, and we are all just normal people. Really.

Normal is relative. I think there is normal and there are those that are normally possessed of qualities normally found in leadership. In the normal world this is normally not questioned.

People rise to the level of expectation that surrounds them. You want average… model average. You want normal… model normal.

I want exceptional. I want excellence. I demand excellence from myself and no other. If people choose to model on that behavior, good on them. If not, good on them. It is not my place to tell others how to have fun. But it is my place to demand excellence from those that presume to lead me and model good followership.

Harbinger.8637:

It’s a game chill out.

That chill out thing works for you does it?

Two points:

1. Fun is winning to some people — Not just chilling out. Why then do we keep score?
2. Remind the community again what rank your server is… what’s your ppt?

This is the game I play. I don’t ask you to play my game nor will I shun you if you choose not to play my game.

I reject the premise that normal is an acceptable standard.

I want everyone to feel special. I want everyone to feel important. I need everyone to feel that electric vibe that lifts them all up to a place of greater achievement beyond their own imagining… attaining success beyond their own belief.

We serve epic disaster upon our enemies and marvel at the sheer audacity of our courage and determination. Everyone in our army is extraordinary! It is from extraordinary contributions of extraordinary people that legends are born, legacies are forged, and tales are told across worlds.

THIS we do not achieve with normal.

I have enough normal in the RealWorld™. We bring Extraordinary™ to GW2 and you can always count on Jade Quarry to provide a home to others that seek an Extraordinary™ experience.

insanemaniac.2456:

our pugs in EB tend to have a strange obsession with the castle… but apart from that the only trouble i have gathering defenders is when we have 5 people on our border.

Don’t feel bad, that’s how most servers act. They don’t realize that while Stonemist gives you 35 ppt and allows you a strategic control advantage over the center of the map, it’s a real royal pain in the kitten to hold onto if you can’t manage your resources well. It’s very easy to pressure whoever controls SMC, and if they don’t have enough people to hold it then their third is up for grabs.

It’s basically a death trap if your server is unprepared to have it. I like it when other servers have it because I can get those 35 points from controlling a keep and a couple of camps on their borderland, which is much easier than dealing with constant defense of SMC.

Darek.1836:

The people of FC have long realized that defending doesn’t matter against the zerg servers, that’s why they don’t want to defend with you.

Ah but see, if you keep 1-3 people in each tower with the following siege, then they’ll hold the tower long enough for reinforcements to arrive:
2x Catapult
3x Arrow Cart
2x Ballista

Place the Ballistae and one Arrow Cart in the tower’s lord room, keep one Catapult ready for countering enemy Catapult fire, keep the other catapult within range of the door to knock people off of flame rams, and keep the other two Arrow Carts within range of the door to burn away enemy flame rams and catapults.

Holding a tower against a zerg boils down to how well you can keep the enemy’s siege down, not how well you can keep the enemy zerg down. Between a tower’s oil drums, cannons, mortars, player-built siege and ability for players to move to different siege devices as required, it’s not very hard to hold most towers, if not permanently then at least for a solid 10-15 minutes (which is enough for reinforcements to wipe the enemy zerg).

I’m not exactly the best player in the world, but in my personal experience this seems to be the best generic setup for defense. When you guys take a tower, have your zerg/offensive force place a few pieces of siege for you, then have 3-4 guys stay behind to run dolyaks, build the siege, store up supply, etc. If it gets too expensive, then designate someone to buy all of the upgrades and have the offensive force mail them 50c-1s from each person each time they take a tower or camp or sentry.

Hopefully this is stuff that you guys are already doing, but if not then I hope it helps you guys out. Either way the motto we should be taking as a community is that we want every player and every server to do better and improve, so even if you don’t take my advice that’s the spirit I’m posting in.

Ah but see, if you keep 1-3 people in each tower with the following siege, then they’ll hold the tower long enough for reinforcements to arrive:
2x Catapult
3x Arrow Cart
2x Ballista

I can tell you from experience that even with those, plus a few more and a flame ram, cannons and oil – a huge zerg with three golems will take your garrison so fast, help will not have time to arrive.

We serve epic disaster upon our enemies and marvel at the sheer audacity of our courage and determination. Everyone in our army is extraordinary! It is from extraordinary contributions of extraordinary people that legends are born, legacies are forged, and tales are told across worlds.

:::::raises one eyebrow:::::

I am not on your server and my reply is not to your personally…

TheDoctor.1760:

Everyone only wants to take take take, no one wants to listen when you ask *bold*them to defend*bold*

Commanders will get ignored because they are leading the attacks and telling OTHERS to do the defending. If commanders want to be taken seriously they can take some of the boring tasks themselves.

zortek.9607:

What is unreasonable is to ignorantly purchase a commander book without an understanding of the difficult responsibility that comes with the honor of serving.

It is reasonable to presume that one would invest adequate time in wvw, develop a sense of the leadership landscape, and earn a starting reputation as a deputy commander or support leader well in advance of putting on the pin.

It is reasonable to expect commanders to be more than “people just like the rest of us.”

This is key. If I am going to stop having fun (combat) for the sake of protecting dolyaks and watching at towers which while important is not fun then it better be for a good reason. If I am making a sacrifice in fun then I expect others to also when the need arises. This goes double for the commander.

Commanders have to know when to put their own fun aside and remember those they told to defend. Attacking a second objective to draw away a zerg from a place you told others to keep look out does not stop that attack. Commanders cannot just keep pushing further and further from their defense points and not have adequate response time to assist those they told to put their fun on hold for the greater good.

The commanders that prove themselves as good leaders get listened to.
Those that have not proven themselves do not get listened to.