Guild Wars 2

Something just crossed my mind maybe yesterday — How about friendly fires causing maybe 1% damages or grant enemy 1% extra damage? Especially if your server mates target the wrong person!! Or make it some kind of condition(?) stacks up to 25??

Friendly fire is an attack by a military force on friendly forces while attempting to attack the enemy, either misidentifying the target as hostile, or due to errors or inaccuracy. Such attacks often cause injury or death. (Wikipedia)

In real world and real war, friendly fires are serious issues. q:

Ah, the driver of small or guild group not tagging up have to find another way to lead your group, other than Ctrl-Click calling you leader the target like now… Or guildies will deliberately and happily put the driver down? Hee hee, it’s a real test on the human nature and coherence of the guild. Oh, wait, others can also put the trolling guildie or party member down then. XD

Expecting a boon on commander tag market and commanders all over the map? Then maybe using squad that no one is actually using now?

I don’t think friendly fire would be an adequate solution to encouraging players to zerg less in WvW. That would just make people even less interested in the game mode. I seriously doubt Anet would ever punish players for playing together, which is what a zerg truly is (a lot of players playing together). I’m no fan of zerging myself, but friendly fire is probably the silliest suggestion for a “solution” that someone could come up with. Maybe a debuff if you’re in a zerg large enough to pop orange swords, but that would be the best you could hope for. With all of the AoEs being thrown all over the place friendly fire would end up downing not only your enemy, but also your own friendlies? Sounds like warriors will be more necessary than ever… warbanner anyone?

That crossed my mind and I’m here to ask some thoughts and inputs. Sorry for being silly, but I used a lot of question marks in my first paragraph. Also you missed some of my suggestion. I know that direct damages from friendly fires by AoE will cause some problem. (even 1% or up to 5%, 10%??)

Maybe I shouldn’t say “as a Penalty on Zergs”, that sounds quite negative. Probably because I hate blindly 11111111111 (or 2222222) and simply race to die with the counter party. Then, how about simply a different vulnerability condition stacks on enemy?

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PS. “A lot of players playing together”? Please try EotM! LOL (it can be discussed that if EotM will not affect by this kind of setting, currently clearly it’s not fully classic WvW — guild claim and buffs and such)

My own server mates metioned the griefer(s) issue, however I argue that there is a % limit and others can take him or her or them out or report it. (check your combat log, and maybe ANet can make it stand out by using a different color. You can kitten if the “group” play is working or worthy)

And, if someone called the target and few or everyone just jumped in to “help”, blindly… isn’t that sarcasm?

BTW, hilariously, even GTA V has some kind of system to prevent or label or “group” in-game trolls. Also my friend had recently earned his dishornored status at least twice from PvP due to DC’ed…

But, yea, in the world of Guild Wars 2’s World versus World, everything can be abused and yes everything will be abused. Oh, well, what a wonderfer world.

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Wow, the word , to make a judgment, become kitten on the forum…

Would not work due to fire fields, etc.

Also, many attacks are like rail guns, or chain bounce, etc.

Well, later I realized maybe it should not be called Firendly Fires, maybe it’s better to be called Friendly Backfires, and there are 2 different scenarios up there:

1. Direct hit by friendly fires.
2. Empower group A to put some kind of vulnerability, +1% extra damage up to 25 stacks, on group B, depends on the enemy numbers on the scene. Instantly 25 stacks for popping up orange swords(? but it counts both sides bah)

About hitting by real friendly fires, it happens if you select the ally by the mouse (not likely by using the keyboard in common default configuration, you can set a hotkey for “targeting” the nearest ally tho) or by even Ctrl-Click to call the target on your ally. Maybe you give him certain % of damage of your raw damage. 10%? it can be discussed and tweaked, just like once OPed ACs.

Also maybe we should introduce the PvP-like “dishornored” status and system here. Ban griefer(s) from WvW automatically if they kill several allies (or maybe judging by certain accumulated damage whom did to the allies) in some period, starting from an hour to 3 hours or even more, for current match-up before reset or even the next matchup (have to wait 2 WvW resets), if repeatedly and reported. (Maybe the dishornor status applies to Alt-F4 scrubs or unfortunately DC’ed just like the dishornored stacks in PvP.)

The 2nd scenario – empower group A to put some kind of vulnerability, +1% extra damage up to 25 stacks, on group B… and vice versa. Both groups can receive and apply the same stacks on the other side. It will still be the same epic zergy fight if you choose to and people will probably down faster for the next round on WvW’s field. (One thing is that… maybe it will cause problem while sieging, I mean attacking a WvW fort, give the one sitting on the sieges too many advantage??)

And it should not kick in maybe for skirmish or GvG scene fewer than 25 people, an orange swords. I think it will also help to ease the epic lag.

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EDIT: My own server mate said that, instead of weakening them by vulnerability, maybe applying crippled to them, "Make blobs move like actual blobs. "

As mentioned, would not work due to combo fields. It would also be bad for balance and mostly just bad for skill lag.

Terrible idea all around.

Sigh, have fun in blobs wars then. It’s built-in laggy already, few know what hits what, who hits whom, everyone spams the keyboard like monkeys dropping AoE and DPS all around, and low FPS on even decent hardwares. EotM FTW.

There is seriously no room to improve in Guild Wars 2’s World vs. World. GG, I guess.

fixing server lag… so we can actually fight a zerg would go a long way to helping.

486s are sooo last year.

playard.6035:

Sigh, have fun in blobs wars then.

Because thats worst then getting griefed and breaking the fundamentals of GW2’s combat system?

Yah, i will choose blobwars over that. Seriously… friendly fire is just begging to break the game.

playard.6035:

Sigh, have fun in blobs wars then. It’s built-in laggy already, few know what hits what, who hits whom, everyone spams the keyboard like monkeys dropping AoE and DPS all around, and low FPS on even decent hardwares. EotM FTW.

There is seriously no room to improve in Guild Wars 2’s World vs. World. GG, I guess.

Sounds to me like you either don’t have a computer that pleases you performance wise in zergs or that you don’t feel as though you’re contributing when you’re in them. If you don’t want to play in a zerg then don’t. Small roaming groups/havoc teams are still needed and sound better suited to your taste if you want to feel as though you’re contributing more to the fight.

Unless the underlying issue you have is that you can’t hold a tower/keep with 1-2 other people against 20 enemies in which case I have no sympathy for you. There are other viable options than to zerg if you don’t like it.

wvw needs more pve elements to counter the zergs. < < < anet act now!

Friendly fire?
70% of skills are AoE skills…

playard.6035:

Sigh, have fun in blobs wars then. It’s built-in laggy already, few know what hits what, who hits whom, everyone spams the keyboard like monkeys dropping AoE and DPS all around, and low FPS on even decent hardwares. EotM FTW.

There is seriously no room to improve in Guild Wars 2’s World vs. World. GG, I guess.

This is your reaction to valid criticism?
You are an unpleasant person then.
There have been hundreds of threads suggesting other ways to ameliorate the blob problem.

And many classes have a field around them that damage, so you cant run close to any friends.

Will not work.

playard.6035:

Sigh, have fun in blobs wars then. It’s built-in laggy already, few know what hits what, who hits whom, everyone spams the keyboard like monkeys dropping AoE and DPS all around, and low FPS on even decent hardwares. EotM FTW.

There is seriously no room to improve in Guild Wars 2’s World vs. World. GG, I guess.

You have a choice as to whether or not you participate in zerging in WvW. I run a havoc guild and we run anywhere from 5-15 man groups on any given night and generally avoid the zergs. You couldn’t be more incorrect when you say “few know what hits what.” Even when a zerg hits a zerg, the most important AoE skills need to be placed correctly for effect. If it was truly as mindless as you think than fights would last considerably longer than they do.

There is plenty of room to improve WvW, but apparently you’re so shallow as to think that only YOUR ideas can improve it. That is not the case. Just because you thought of it, does not mean that it is a great idea. Try think of a better suggestion to mitigate blob sizes other than simply screwing over your own server’s players with a friendly fire mechanic of some sort. That will never be implemented.

Would never work in this game. The lag would be abominable. Fields couldn’t work. Conditions would be a disaster. This is just a bad idea no matter how a person looks at it.

Solution to combat zerg = #RemoveAOECap

Sreoom.3690:

Solution to combat zerg = #RemoveAOECap

As has been pointed out in a buzzillion threads this is a horrible idea. GW2 being so AoE heavy is one of the major reasons zergs stack and a massive source of its skill lag.

It would never work. It would punish ranged classes, or those that drop heavy AoE. Also the reason 11111111 or 2222222 works so well is it’s because it’s generally the strongest attacks for the most bang for your buck. 1 also has no real cool down. Now why would anyone stand there and not hit 1 while waiting for their other cool downs?

I think there are only 3 real solutions that will combat zerg play and I think 1 of them should be given some real thought.

1. Remove AoE cap however this won’t happen
2. Increase the AoE damage by a % given the number of enemies in a given area.
3. Either remove stability from WvW or shorten the duration and put a massive cool down (exhaust period) on it so it can’t be continually be re-applied.

I wish the devs would give #3 a really close look or consideration. Every battle starts the same, pop stability, pop veil (if your teammates are on the ball), run in. Anyone using any type of CC pretty much sees “immune” the whole fight. Either that or give stability charges that get eaten up every time a CC attempt is made.

Now how might WvW look then? Tactics would certainly have to be adjusted to emphasize less zerg play due to the mass CC going on.

No need to increase damage at all. Just reduce it. Put reducing gains upon a group that’s larger than, say, 30. Any damage done within some radius (800?) if there’s above the number of friendly characters (30), then they do x amount less damage. For every 5 people above 30 (or whatever number is chosen), you do less damage. Maybe 2% per 5 above 30. I don’t know, I’m just conjecturing. That way, it’s about 10% less damage once you reach 55. I don’t think the losses would discourage zerging though, since you’re still doing 200% more damage if you go from 30 to 60 players. Even if it’s 190%, still enough to matter. 150% though, with 10% less for every 5 above 30? Maybe then.

DeadlySynz.3471:

Either that or give stability charges that get eaten up every time a CC attempt is made.

I like this suggestion. Balanced, reasonable, allows for counter-play.

Friendly fire cannot work in GW2, a key mecanic in the game are combo fields: stack might, heal, retaliation, etc… Allowing friendly fire would break that mecanic that smaller groups have to use in order to sustain and kill zergs.
Every players and Anet know what to do: disable hard rez while in combat, remove aoe cap, restore damage as it was before the Ferocity nerf, limit the number of people that can use a non spawn waypoints or remove waypoints, make it easier to hit people from the top of a wall than it is to hit from below….so many thing they could do yet every change they make is to make zerging stronger so I’m guessing, since even pve is blob to win fest, that the vision of fun for Anet is blob, move foward and spam 1. Not expecting the game to get any better, just waiting for another game like so many…

Astaroth.5146:

remove aoe cap

Can’t do this without causing the servers massive pain & lag.

Astaroth.5146:

Friendly fire cannot work in GW2, a key mecanic in the game are combo fields: stack might, heal, retaliation, etc… Allowing friendly fire would break that mecanic that smaller groups have to use in order to sustain and kill zergs.
Every players and Anet know what to do: disable hard rez while in combat, remove aoe cap, restore damage as it was before the Ferocity nerf, limit the number of people that can use a non spawn waypoints or remove waypoints, make it easier to hit people from the top of a wall than it is to hit from below….so many thing they could do yet every change they make is to make zerging stronger so I’m guessing, since even pve is blob to win fest, that the vision of fun for Anet is blob, move foward and spam 1. Not expecting the game to get any better, just waiting for another game like so many…

It baffles me that my arrows are out of reach to people directly below me.

Things that need nerfing to demote zerging.

1. Soldier runes.
2. Condition to boon conversion.
3. Lemongrass
4. Traiting healing rain

Just wait and see guild teams fall flat in their face when they can’t abuse supercharged condition removal.

godz raiden.2631:

playard.6035:

Sigh, have fun in blobs wars then. It’s built-in laggy already, few know what hits what, who hits whom, everyone spams the keyboard like monkeys dropping AoE and DPS all around, and low FPS on even decent hardwares. EotM FTW.

There is seriously no room to improve in Guild Wars 2’s World vs. World. GG, I guess.

You have a choice as to whether or not you participate in zerging in WvW. I run a havoc guild and we run anywhere from 5-15 man groups on any given night and generally avoid the zergs. You couldn’t be more incorrect when you say “few know what hits what.” Even when a zerg hits a zerg, the most important AoE skills need to be placed correctly for effect. If it was truly as mindless as you think than fights would last considerably longer than they do.

There is plenty of room to improve WvW, but apparently you’re so shallow as to think that only YOUR ideas can improve it. That is not the case. Just because you thought of it, does not mean that it is a great idea. Try think of a better suggestion to mitigate blob sizes other than simply screwing over your own server’s players with a friendly fire mechanic of some sort. That will never be implemented.

I do havoc and BL defense with 3~8 (10 if we’re lucky) back on DR and now on SBI. Most of the time, my in-game friends or guildies don’t join our zerg — I or we found that you have to commit yourself to the guild group raid or the zerg, sacrifice your own independence and space of thinking. We’re siegers running around sieging, refreshing, scouting, defending, dying… and guess what we have met so far since 2012?

We did partnered up with regular commanders, medium-sized (5-15) fighting squads and hardcore WvW guilds, one of which had held fight clubs on our old server and their new server. We called them if we spot a large enemy group or tight enemy havoc and guild group beyond my defenders/siegers party. We both know we have different type of fun in-game and have fun helping and knowing each other.

However, frequently it seems that things won’t change even you know your kitten better, you just lost to the sea of red. (overrun or they keep rezzing people have downed) Quite a fun game mode, rally numbers seems the only answer in the battle and the war. It seems to be designed and even encourage to be that.

There is little or no risk for a big zerg ball now on the field, and I want to give them some disadvantages to compensate the effect of numbers.

I’m not against players with different playstyles, but sometimes, a single zerg would be better off spliting into 2 or 3 groups doing things that needed to be done.

I have more questions than answers, I picth my silly idea and shape my stupid solution for that. I don’t know everything in-game, maybe a lot of things in-game, but I’m willing to listen and learn, having a healthy discussion instead of shutting it down totally. (I guess that now I learned.)

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http://www.stormbluffisle.com/index.php/forum/wvw/3430-firendly-fires-as-a-penalty-on-zergs?start=10#33414

Well, anyway, have fun, folks. Thanks for teaching me something.

defrule.7236:

Things that need nerfing to demote zerging.

1. Soldier runes.
2. Condition to boon conversion.
3. Lemongrass
4. Traiting healing rain

Just wait and see guild teams fall flat in their face when they can’t abuse supercharged condition removal.

Besides being a bad idea. This would never happen in the condition meta of pvp.

Kraag Deadsoul.2789:

DeadlySynz.3471:

Either that or give stability charges that get eaten up every time a CC attempt is made.

I like this suggestion. Balanced, reasonable, allows for counter-play.

No, this would just buff the current Guardian/Warrior meta. They go to apply much more stability then other professions, and spam most CCs, in particular AoE.

They would simply exhaust anyone that isnt a GW-train’s stability while maintaining their own.

playard.6035:

However, frequently it seems that things won’t change even you know your kitten better, you just lost to the sea of red. (overrun or they keep rezzing people have downed) Quite a fun game mode, rally numbers seems the only answer in the battle and the war. It seems to be designed and even encourage to be that.

Knowing the game mechanics, it is your own fault for getting yourself in a situation where this happens. This is totally on you and your inability to grasp how the game works.

There is little or no risk for a big zerg ball now on the field, and I want to give them some disadvantages to compensate the effect of numbers.

I disagree. Go see what happens when these big zergs run into guilds like Red Guard.

I’m not against players with different playstyles, but sometimes, a single zerg would be better off spliting into 2 or 3 groups doing things that needed to be done.

Running as one and having a good network of scouts, havoc squads or temporary break-offs from the zerg is just as effective. Maybe more so because it is much harder for the opposing team to counter.

GW2 is a large scale battle game zerg vs zerg. you wont take keeps or towers solo , maybe solo players should get a penalty for being solo. stacking is not bad either what is bad is crying on forums because your team gets rolled.

Ok, had enough of this nonsense. Listen, there is ONE big problem with mega-zergs that needs to be nerfed.

It’s not AOE, Frindly Fire, downed mechancs …
Zone zergs are so powerful because: PERMA – SPEED.

It’s doesn’t make sense to split up a zerg, when you can be virtually anywhere on the map with 80 people in 1 minute.

Want to force zergs to split up, want people to play smarter?
Address the group perma – speed issue!

/thread

PS: You’re welcome!

That was a idea, simple have so all AOE help skills only is give to players in your party, then maybe make so you can make a party off 10players.

And then for commander tags have, show only party, show only Squad, show only Guild, show all, and on more tick Show all commanders on map.

I don’t have a problem with zergs. I have a problem with the fact that there is nothing that can occupy a zerg for long. At the moment zergs swarm across the map and steamroll everything in their path. It’s easy and effective and leaves little room or need for medium sized groups.

To be honest, it’s a difficult thing to balance right so I am not expecting instant miracles from Anet, but I would like to see more incentives to work in groups of 10-20 and I would like to see more added to challenge and occupy zergs. To do this we really need large scale events that would take even the largest of zergs a good while to complete and would require some serious zerg vs zerg fighting and resources to succeed.

Currently, you get those rare moments when two, or even 3, large zergs clash together, and that can be something quite spectacular. Especially when they are evenly matched. However, these prolonged fights are far and few between, so zergs tend to just run from tower to keep to camp, easily destroying everything in there path, because there is nothing to challenge them.

What we need is not something to nerf the zergs but something to challenge them. Something to occupy them for a good while so that we NEED to create medium sized groups in order to do the other objectives. For example, if there were frequent objectives that required zergs to put in real time and effort, we would need smaller groups to continue capping towers, etc.

My idea for WvW is as follows:
Keeps – Require serious time, resources and large numbers of players to capture. These are for zergs to fight over.

Towers – Take less time but still require the efforts of medium sized groups (10-20 players).

Camps and Sentries – These are for roamers and small groups to deal with.

The problem you have though, is anything that can be done by small or medium groups can be done a lot quicker and easier with a zerg. So if the zerg was always occupied by fighting over the control of keeps, we would NEED small and medium groups to deal with the rest of the map.

So don’t nerf zergs, give them something to do.