Guild Wars 2

…if nerfing that relatively overpowered +/- 40% Condition duration by food by half.

And the fact that fear is affected by condition duration is just further insult.

I mean we’ve reached the point now where condition builds have more burst than power builds, while doing so with practically untelegraphed attacks from range. Next to extreme pressure conditions builds also get to apply Weakness , Chill and various other impairing conditions.

Traits, Runes and Sigils have also allowed for practically every class to build builds that dumb ALL conditions on their enemies. Whereas the old Pistol/Thief build used to focus almost entirely on Bleeds with the occasional Poison the modern one uses Torment, Poison, Burning and Bleeds to, in combination with Thieves Guild, burst people down in a split second.

Much has been said about Necromancers already who can deal 20.000 damage within a single Fear + Signet of Spite condition dump.

Conditions in this game are overpowered to the point that their counters need to be overpowered in order to be remotely useful. It just excludes everyone who doesn’t fit into either the heavy condition burst-meta or the heavy condition counter-meta (Warriors).

I don’t understand your point. You complainabout 20k complete glass necro ?

I play a war and can easily do 22-28k with GS or up to 33k rifle rotation when I go glass. And on top of that its insta, no need to wait on condis to take effect. Hell, my mes can do 24k in full glass set-up at times.

That doesnt even cover my ele or thief, so whats your complaint again ?

Completely wrong. Not even as bad as the people who think conditions should be based on condition damage/precision/critical damage though.
The fact is that on a necro I can unload every bleed stacking skill I have, and 1 skill (or even trait) will remove ALL the stacks I had spent the entire battle accumulating. Granted its kinda hard to do that with cover conditions, it is still possible and does happen enough to where I just rage quit.
Tongku said it. Conditions are in no way OP, do not need to be fixed. If anything power builds need to be nerfed, but thats like saying healing power will get a buff.

Tongku.5326:

I don’t understand your point. You complainabout 20k complete glass necro ?

I play a war and can easily do 22-28k with GS or up to 33k rifle rotation when I go glass. And on top of that its insta, no need to wait on condis to take effect. Hell, my mes can do 24k in full glass set-up at times.

That doesnt even cover my ele or thief, so whats your complaint again ?

talking out of your kitten . power burst meta died down a long time ago for a reason.
i’m doubtful you’re actually able to realistically pull any of those numbers off, if at all.

Stand The Wall.6987:

Conditions are in no way OP, do not need to be fixed. If anything power builds need to be nerfed, but thats like saying healing power will get a buff.

wow… i mean wow. i didn’t know it was possible to be this stupid in one sentence.

there’s no arguing it, conditions are broken. avoiding them is typically next to impossible as they are largely inflicted at a distance and often unbroadcasted, only one stat determines their effectiveness compared to three for physical damage, they are far too easily spammable (by applying multiple conditions mainly) meaning realistically they’re incredibly hard to counter for most professions not to mention condition removal works blindly whereas it should be priority based, there is no effective way of reducing condition damage as there is power damage with toughness, conditions not only do damage but also inflict various harm like slow movement, slow cooldowns, reduce damage, make attacks miss, etc. + certain conditions themselves are innately broken (i.e. burning- needs to either do less damage or have shorter durations).

take all that and compare that to power damage: it does more damage and does it quicker than conditions, but can be mitigated much more easily through distance, boons, conditions, evasion, and cc.

to say that conditions aren’t broken is laughable, but to then go and say power is instead broken is actually astoundingly moronic.

And yet conditions do almost nothing against a zerg. A rehash might be a good idea if you manage to make them work for small fights aswell as big fights.

Let’s break down how conditions are getting applied and how they get removed. First we’ll look at solo roaming. Engis and necros can apply almost every condition in game and keep them refreshed. While 1 person with all the condis on him only has a limited amount of condition cleaning. Meaning he’ll melt with 20s+ of chill on him.

Conditions don’t only deal damage, they handicap your damage, your defense, your healing AND your mobility. Even your skill recharges get handicaped. So in a nutshell, they deal dmg and prevent you from dealing dmg back.

If we combine this previous fact with the amount of armor a condi build can stack (full rabid) without losing out on dmg, you get a tanky condi burst build with a burst equal or higher than a power build in OPTIMAL circumstances.

Now why aren’t conditions effective in zerg play? That is because the nature of condition cleaning. Most condition cleaners are ment to be supportive and remove conditions not only from yourself but also from peopel near you. 1 from yourself and 1 from 5 people around you, making it 6 in total compared to the 1 in solo play. This highers the condition cleaning in zergs by 6 fold effectively keeping you condition clean.

But the biggest problem is the ease with which they are getting applied and how hard it is to dodge them. Because they are getting applied so easily and quickly, the condi burst (let us say the dmg in the first 5s of a fight) is equal and even higher than pure zerker builds. This while power attacks are much easier to dodge, don’t nerf your damage or mobility and requires you to go A LOT more squishy.

Ofcourse you want an example now, a condition thiefs burst is higher than that of a full zerker thief. And that while after the zerker thiefs burst he is out, but the conditions keep ticking.

Why are conditions OP?
-To easy to apply
-Can combine tanky with full condition damage
-Initial burst is way to high
-Debuffs the enemy to such degree that he is useless and can’t do anything back
-Nature of condition cleaning as tools for supportive build making them only viable in zerg play
-Stay on for too long, dealing unnatural high amounts of damage (20k+ with the torment of warrior alone)

Separate conditions into damage dealing conditions and non-damage dealing conditions

Make condition cleanses apply only to the damage dealing conditions (or give cleanse priority to the damage dealing conditions)

Reduce the number of condition cleanses in the game

Only peeps griping about conditions are those who mains rely on something other than conditions. There is a balance in traiting, group make-up and delegating skill slots for personal condition control for all the classes. Its a compromise, no doubt…but isn’t that part of the challenge?

Sacrifice a shout, banner or (insert skill here) for a CC slot?…

But whatta bout’ my dps?!!!

I play every class in wvw…some better than others no doubt. Knowing how necros operate, I’m constantly balancing and changing skill slots for CC or shouts on my guardian…just depends on who/what we’re fighting.

But those kinds of decisions are part of the game. Nothing here should be fire & forget.

warrior complaining about necro and engi? there must be something very wrong with the way you play…………..
are your class not op enough? beserker stance? ignore pain? bull rush + all that running skill bullcrap?

currently all class have sufficient condition removal so quit acting like there is no way to remove condition

only kitten complain about condition because they dont know how to handle it

Tongku.5326:

I don’t understand your point. You complainabout 20k complete glass necro ?

I play a war and can easily do 22-28k with GS or up to 33k rifle rotation when I go glass. And on top of that its insta, no need to wait on condis to take effect. Hell, my mes can do 24k in full glass set-up at times.

That doesnt even cover my ele or thief, so whats your complaint again ?

A 3 1/2 cast and 1 3/4 second channel are not even close to instant. Also how would the Necromancer be complete glass with all the tanky stats on condition gear.

Y sure..conditions are not broken.Must explain the fact that Every class is rolling high condi builds..even Warriors,you know..the kind that wears heavy armor,wielding double melee weapons standing on the frontline..the kind that shouldnt need to be rolling condi builds at all,are now all rolling condi builds.So much complains about Ham/bow warriors…Dont blame them,blame anet. Why ? Because presumably condi builds are the best and easiest road to go..Why ? Because condis are overpowered as hell,to the point its almost gamebreaking..Why go double melee as a warrior and only frustrate yourself not being able to land your hardest hits due to blind spamming,evading,immunitys,invunerability’s,misses,out of range,obstructed,blocks..If you can go condi spamm and are able to do constantdmg while not having to be near your opponent. Condi builds will be the norm untill anet figures out how gamebreaking it really is.

Anet..something is really wrong with your game.

Con dmg is kitten in real fights and kitten when you need to break siege and doors. Seems to me that con dmg is worse everything what matters and you wanna nerf it even more.

Condition damage in GW2 was a mistaken design. They should have made condition damage DoT like some other MMOs which means no ability to increase duration and damage would be keyed off Power/Precision just like direct damage. Players could increase total damage output but not the duration or frequency. Conditions would all be non-damaging such as those that effect movement, healing, etc.

This change would eliminate the need to have capped damage stacks, high damage would always come at a cost of being brittle and balancing DoT to direct damage would be much easier.

Junkpile.7439:

Con dmg is kitten in real fights and kitten when you need to break siege and doors. Seems to me that con dmg is worse everything what matters and you wanna nerf it even more.

Condition damage does have issues, I’m not denying it.

It’s crappy in PvE and against structures due to it’s mechanical implementation, not because of its poor performance.

But those are two different sets of problems that both require unique solutions.

Ideally conditions would be more powerful in PvE and less powerful in PvP.

What probably hold Conditions back in PvE is that many of the control effects don’t really affect NPCs.

Straegen.2938:

Condition damage in GW2 was a mistaken design. They should have made condition damage DoT like some other MMOs which means no ability to increase duration and damage would be keyed off Power/Precision just like direct damage. Players could increase total damage output but not the duration or frequency. Conditions would all be non-damaging such as those that effect movement, healing, etc.

This change would eliminate the need to have capped damage stacks, high damage would always come at a cost of being brittle and balancing DoT to direct damage would be much easier.

if a net made this change people will start overcrowding with engis and necros and the warrior you and a net love so much will be kittened so much, they will be almost extict

sinject.4607:

Tongku.5326:

I don’t understand your point. You complainabout 20k complete glass necro ?

I play a war and can easily do 22-28k with GS or up to 33k rifle rotation when I go glass. And on top of that its insta, no need to wait on condis to take effect. Hell, my mes can do 24k in full glass set-up at times.

That doesnt even cover my ele or thief, so whats your complaint again ?

talking out of your kitten . power burst meta died down a long time ago for a reason.
i’m doubtful you’re actually able to realistically pull any of those numbers off, if at all.

Stand The Wall.6987:

Conditions are in no way OP, do not need to be fixed. If anything power builds need to be nerfed, but thats like saying healing power will get a buff.

wow… i mean wow. i didn’t know it was possible to be this stupid in one sentence.

there’s no arguing it, conditions are broken. avoiding them is typically next to impossible as they are largely inflicted at a distance and often unbroadcasted, only one stat determines their effectiveness compared to three for physical damage, they are far too easily spammable (by applying multiple conditions mainly) meaning realistically they’re incredibly hard to counter for most professions not to mention condition removal works blindly whereas it should be priority based, there is no effective way of reducing condition damage as there is power damage with toughness, conditions not only do damage but also inflict various harm like slow movement, slow cooldowns, reduce damage, make attacks miss, etc. + certain conditions themselves are innately broken (i.e. burning- needs to either do less damage or have shorter durations).

take all that and compare that to power damage: it does more damage and does it quicker than conditions, but can be mitigated much more easily through distance, boons, conditions, evasion, and cc.

to say that conditions aren’t broken is laughable, but to then go and say power is instead broken is actually astoundingly moronic.

I could go on in detail to tell you how to play your class but I wont bother.
Instead, stop complaining on the forums and learn to come up with counters. Condition builds are meant to rival power builds, and it wont change. Use your classes mechanics wisely.

MiLkZz.4789:

If we combine this previous fact with the amount of armor a condi build can stack (full rabid) without losing out on dmg, you get a tanky condi burst build with a burst equal or higher than a power build in OPTIMAL circumstances.

This isn’t entirely true; I run an entire power build, well full glass cannon, and there is in no way shape or form a tanky condition build will out-damage me. Even standing directly in a full bunker/condition necros well with stability, I can still kill them off in 10s or less easily. This isn’t even factoring in stacks of might or my pet attacking.

The problem with some people’s rational of thinking is that they feel to be successful, they need to build themselves to be tanky & mitigate conditions. You know what the best way to deal with conditions is? To shell out a lot more damage than they do in the time it takes their conditions to stack. It’s as simple as that. Even full tank builds still take in excess of 20k-30K in damage in mere seconds from a power/berserk build.

DeadlySynz.3471:

MiLkZz.4789:

If we combine this previous fact with the amount of armor a condi build can stack (full rabid) without losing out on dmg, you get a tanky condi burst build with a burst equal or higher than a power build in OPTIMAL circumstances.

This isn’t entirely true; I run an entire power build, well full glass cannon, and there is in no way shape or form a tanky condition build will out-damage me. Even standing directly in a full bunker/condition necros well with stability, I can still kill them off in 10s or less easily. This isn’t even factoring in stacks of might or my pet attacking.

The problem with some people’s rational of thinking is that they feel to be successful, they need to build themselves to be tanky & mitigate conditions. You know what the best way to deal with conditions is? To shell out a lot more damage than they do in the time it takes their conditions to stack. It’s as simple as that. Even full tank builds still take in excess of 20k-30K in damage in mere seconds from a power/berserk build.

waiting for the day you fight a good condi player

Stillmoon.6894:

Straegen.2938:

Condition damage in GW2 was a mistaken design. They should have made condition damage DoT like some other MMOs which means no ability to increase duration and damage would be keyed off Power/Precision just like direct damage.

if a net made this change people will start overcrowding with engis and necros and the warrior you and a net love so much will be kittened so much, they will be almost extict

??? Condi-bunkers would cease to exist since these classes could no longer pour damage into one stat (condition damage). They would have to choose like all other direct damage builds who have to give up either Toughness, Vitality, Power, Precision. Their damage would also get toned down by toughness. Even if one class does come out way ahead, they would be fairly easy to balance since all damage would be applied the same way. Both direct and per tick damage would all go through the same algorithm.

Creating an entirely different damage system was an ANet mistake which has made condition builds less effective in dungeons and zergs while making them incredibly powerful in small scale WvW.