Guild Wars 2

5,4,3 is a terrible scoring mechanic and it’s done nothing but create walls that shouldn’t be there. Example Tier 1 and Tier 2. Tarnished Coast has been gaining Glicko rating because of 5,4,3 although TC has been losing players and guilds steadily because of Tier 1 and their inability to produce the coverage of that Tier.

The difference between 5,4,3 and 3,2,1 is the amount of points awarded that gets plugged into the glicko.

Furthermore the scoring gives way to coverage imbalance. Thus, you can’t keep tinkering with the score because it’s directly effecting the health of our communities without fixing balance first.

The imbalance is obvious and it will continue to worsen. The rating every week will continue to float TC and because of this, TC will lose all its players because they are dealing with impossible odds.

This relink, Arena Net gave both JQ and TC 2 guest links, which does nothing but increase the odds of them potentially rising to Tier 1 by giving them a few disorganized pug communities while allowing the servers to get bandwagon to from their guest servers.

In fact JQ and TCs links don’t provide them coverage to deal with Tier 1 and doesn’t change their scenario.

Why is Tier 1 being avoided like the plague? Why does Tier 1 inevitably kill off server coverage and communities?

It’s because a few relink cycles ago, even after countless warnings to Arena Net about the opening up of servers, they choose to open Blackgate. Opening Blackgate created a mass wave of transfers enabling BG to stack beyond the point of the threshold allowed and well beyond the point of any other server. To combat this, servers then tried to buy guilds or stack to the level of BG. There is only one server who was able to pull that off and that’s MAG.

MAG pulled it off like no other. MAG didn’t just buy guilds, but they placed a mentality around themselves which even gained them individual players and a mass of pugs or militia forces from the servers around. Systematically creating something a bit worse than BG itself on a server that was once “high” status.

Now here we have two servers that can only compete with each other, while the third wheel suffers from massive demoralization and player attrition. Because of this the WvW meta for organized forces and pugs alike is to simply avoid Tier. In fact, even BG and MAGs guilds don’t like the atmosphere and some of them even feel as if they’re being forced to leave. Any T2 server that receives the “death roll” of Tier 1 is put on a count down timer before they themselves start to lose pieces of their community. 5, 4, 3 and the stigma of Tier 1 itself makes it so that even if that server losses badly or tanks they could still end up being stuck in Tier 1 for the foreseeable future. In Tier 2, no one wants Tier 1. Its something people avoid at large and because of this, there is no effort to create a rotation or balance or bail the third string out before it dies and losses all its coverage for fighting in a tier it shouldn’t be in.

Scoring at large doesn’t matter for winning. There is no competitive nature to see who is the victor. Winning in Guild Wars 2 is pointless. So why focus on the scoring when all it does it enable imbalance. Why consistently fiddle with the scoring and not be bothered with the balancing of servers when the only reason the servers care about scoring at large is because it decides the fate of their server and their tier.

To fix this WvW you need to start with the problems that have a cascading effect on other dynamics of the game first. You can’t fix scoring if there is hardly a competition. You can’t fix or “play test” scoring if no one is generally caring about it. Fixing and adjusting scoring, when there is little reason to care beyond that of your servers tier makes way for manipulation especially when the objective is not to rise in the Tiers but to avoid a said tier because of the imbalance presented in it.

the people’s champ

Anet needs to wake up, or they’re going to have an even MORE dead WvW. It’s honestly just pathetic at this point. Stop using kitten bandaids for problems and come up with some major solutions for a change.

The issue is…..previously the voice on population balancing is much softer than the voice of scoring. It is not that there isn’t anyone mentioning about population balancing but a lot more people on the forums were celebrating and show more concern about scoring than population balancing itself. To put it in other words, there were more people who care about night capping scoring than actual population itself.

In that perspective, anet not giving population balance as priority is logically understandable though at the same time, short sighted.

Regardless, a lot of people have given up the hope there will be even any population balance, those voices have gotten smaller, anet actions towards WvW are simply depressing.

SkyShroud.2865:

The issue is…..previously the voice on population balancing is much softer than the voice of scoring. It is not that there isn’t anyone mentioning about population balancing but a lot more people on the forums were celebrating and show more concern about scoring than population balancing itself. To put it in other words, there were more people who care about night capping scoring than actual population itself.

In that perspective, anet not giving population balance as priority is logically understandable though at the same time, short sighted.

Regardless, a lot of people have given up the hope there will be even any population balance, those voices have gotten smaller, anet actions towards WvW are simply depressing.

Problem is you can’t speak your mind too much here. You’re instantly silence via a deletion or thread closed. Some are justified, others speak the truth and yet are closed for some unknown reason whether it be a PC move or they just don’t like hearing concerns from their customers.

I logged in this week and you can see it, the groups just look different and smaller.

Its unbelievable that anet clearly didn’t do any modelling on 5-4-3 as to what the effects would actually be. They just tossed it in as a test. They have to get it through their heads that undesirable flow on effects can happen relatively quickly and its not good enough to use the mode as a beta testing ground.

RodOfDeath.5247:

SkyShroud.2865:

The issue is…..previously the voice on population balancing is much softer than the voice of scoring. It is not that there isn’t anyone mentioning about population balancing but a lot more people on the forums were celebrating and show more concern about scoring than population balancing itself. To put it in other words, there were more people who care about night capping scoring than actual population itself.

In that perspective, anet not giving population balance as priority is logically understandable though at the same time, short sighted.

Regardless, a lot of people have given up the hope there will be even any population balance, those voices have gotten smaller, anet actions towards WvW are simply depressing.

Problem is you can’t speak your mind too much here. You’re instantly silence via a deletion or thread closed. Some are justified, others speak the truth and yet are closed for some unknown reason whether it be a PC move or they just don’t like hearing concerns from their customers.

I logged in this week and you can see it, the groups just look different and smaller.

Ermm….

I have made a lot of posts over the years, many of which are debates and arguments. So far, there were only a few posts deleted due to breaking the rules. I also had a post that was wrongly deleted which the mod team admit it shouldn’t violate the rules.

I used to often participate in many different debates and arguments in this forums, I can say that they don’t delete every negative posts because I have a lot of negative posts

Honestly speaking, many WvWers often could not participate in this kind of forums of debates and arguments without resorting to personal attacks and insults. This naturally cross the line and get deleted. Also, WvWers often derail from topic and changing it into a matchup topic.

To give a recent example of what anet took note of from my years of posting. A few months ago, I made a topic questioning about the scribing cost of guild sieges. I think a patch or two later, the scribing cost for those guild sieges are reduced.

There were also the dolyak suggestion made by another player, suggestion to put upgrade into number of dolyaks instead of timer.

For a game mode as big as WvW, suggestions that require drastic changes, a few logical or reasoning voices will not be impactful enough for anet to perform any actions. It need to be majority voices supporting the idea to move anet into actions.

They need to do a lot of manual glicko adjustments with this scoring system asap. Should’ve voted for 1 up 1 down tbh. Instead, pve players voted for the rewards

Digikid. OnS is currently on TC still. We all have responsibility in our current situation and we are only in this situation because of the mechanics that allow us to be here. The mechanics have to change first and foremost because the players just play the mechanics as they see fit. What you’re saying here does nothing but try to discredit what it is I’m saying even though we are all connected in this system. Even though what I’ve done in the past was a direct result of the problems I was faced with in the mechanics designed by the game.

Thanks Mal for this thread.

What you have said in your thread starter is true.

It’s sad that anet didn’t react to other threads posted here in the wvw forum about the state of TC, do some checks/balances and at the very least make some glicko adjustment….

K, I was wrong about ONS transferring and I should know better then to get info from the wvw discord…. regardless you are right about the 5-4-3 point system locking TC in T1, and that only Mag and BG can compete in T1 due to both the sheer coverage and organisation of the servers, I was merely disagreeing with how TC became locked into T1 in the first place – a combination of extremely unlucky rolls in T1 repeatedly and before that a number of guilds still actively trying to compete that led to TC being quite strong in T2 and winning a few skirmishes in T1 lead to TC being stuck in T1 when the 5-4-3 system came and locked them there.

You… agree that 5-4-3 system locked TC… but disagree how it locked TC….

Malevolent’s analysis is correct. 5-4-3 locked Tarnished Coast in tier 1 with 2 overstacked servers. And for some strange reason, BG and Maguuma were left open while TC and some of the others servers were considered full.

Rather than putting a flimsy band aid on the problem this week by joining 2 lower tier servers to TC, they should have manually dropped TC to tier 2, giving them a break for a week. While it is tough to keep a persistent WvW world balanced, things could have been much better handled.

Montana.8032:

Anet needs to wake up, or they’re going to have an even MORE dead WvW. It’s honestly just pathetic at this point. Stop using kitten bandaids for problems and come up with some major solutions for a change.

If your referring to balance, that will be impossible. You have way to may fair weather players, if there sever is getting beat up bad, they will simply not play.

If there server is winning, even more will show up on hopes of bags. People log in to have fun, if there is a zerg running, and stomping everything in its path, they stick around, if there zerg is getting steam rolled, they simply stop playing.

Throw in the bad tags. The toons that tag up, yet feed there group to the “enemy” and play like they are from the other side.

So WvW is simply a crap shoot. If the zerg is strong, and the commander is good, the game is fun, if the zerg is weak, and or the commander is bad, the game is frustrating and not worth playing.

There is nothing ANET can do to solve this issue, unless they throw out some epic must have gear for wvw only, and x amount of time spent in WvW will earn you this gear.

I thought YB got screwed again with no link as server #9. That said, TC really is getting a raw deal with no visible escape until Anet manually adjusts JQ into T1. Then JQ will be in TCs predicament after a few weeks and will need for Anet to adjust TC/FA/SOS up. Of course many of those players on server #3 in the T1 match will just play alts on another server instead of getting stomped in a tier they don’t want to be in….

The scoring doesn’t work and neither does linking… New approach is needed.

Honestly at this point it seems so no besides BG and Mag really want t1. JQ’s sea which is majority of their wvw population does want t1 but their NA i believe does not.

Darksoul.6310:

Honestly at this point it seems so no besides BG and Mag really want t1. JQ’s sea which is majority of their wvw population does want t1 but their NA i believe does not.

Actually, a lot of JQ’s sea doesn’t want t1 surprisingly.

The only ways they can make a viable 3rd T1 server is linking something like JQ & FA or some such combo. They can’t doo that because they have never really addressed losing server identity or even tracking glicko as a guest…

I suppose the other option is booting people off of bg/mag, but I don’t see either option happening anytime soon.

I blame blackgate, hope y’all are enjoying your 543.

Walls have existed since SOR.

Well if we are being honest, cliffs are more appropriate.

I’m just loathe that this is starting to happen in EU now.

Why blame Anet for this? It’s the players fault, plain and simple. Take some personal kitten responsibility. The players continually year after year stack and bandwagon to “win”

Simple solution, if you want a challenge and want fair game play then STOP transferring to the bandwagon of the week. Transfer to a med or high server instead of waiting for a stacked server to open.

Be part of the solution, not part of the problem.

Liston.9708:

The only ways they can make a viable 3rd T1 server is linking something like JQ & FA or some such combo. They can’t doo that because they have never really addressed losing server identity or even tracking glicko as a guest…

I suppose the other option is booting people off of bg/mag, but I don’t see either option happening anytime soon.

Lock BG and Mag for a very very long time. Eventually enough will get bored that their populations drop to something other servers can compete with. This is all the fault of the players. Stack, stack, and stack some more. smh

Its not the fault of the players for playing a game. The mechanics of the game are broken and enable the players to take advantage of broken mechanics. This is ArenaNets doing and not the fault of the player for playing the game as its expected to be played. Video games have rules and restraints used to create balance and an competitive environment and here in GuildWars 2 our mechanics enable the players to break balance.

It’s ironic that you are complaining about population imbalance and glicko locking you into a bad matchup. FA has twice been where you are now. Once when you and your “alliance” moved to YB and the second time when you moved to TC. While I don’t speak for FA I’m sure there’s many that were on FA the first time and others that were also there for the second that feel that you deserve all the karma you’re getting.

what can you ultimately do? even without 543, you cant stop people from transferring servers without cutting into anets bottom line. if you could somehow prove that the gains would be greater then the loss from server transfer fees, then maybe. how do you even go about proving that though? how do you measure what a “balanced” (has yet to be defined in the context of a more or less perfectly equal population system) wvw would look like and how would one profit from it?

The issue is they’re using points to feed into Glicko/using Glicko at all.

5-4-3 works if the servers belong in their respective tiers by keeping the PPT closer due to a removal of runaway games from nightcapping and the likes.

They need an in-house-developed, data-driven matchmaking algorithm that’s quick to adapt and change pairings, however, as well as a means for punishing players for moving around a lot.

Though honestly I think the bigger issue as to why WvW is shrinking is because the profession design and balance just makes the PvP in the game not fun in general.

The real issue is that all the best wvw guilds and players have given up the game because Anet puts more focus on pve content. Hence, they have lost more players overall (as apparent with the pve mega-server and now the wvw server linking.) We have ended up with only a handful of actual serious guilds/players, with the rest being casual players at best which are easily rolled.

I know we have tried for years to get Anet to put more of a main focus on wvw, but it simply isn’t going to happen. Wvw will be reduced to a mega-server like eotm by 2018, and even then we will start having coverage issues. Anet will continue to wonder why they have overall dwindling population and never realize it was because they chose to ignore the one gameplay mode that could’ve saved GW2.

Mal I am glad you made this post but let’s be real about this, dies Arena Net really cares? We asked them to nerf one skills which is epidemic and what they do is beside nerfing the skill they give you light field to cleanse conditions lul and that also A condition not 2 or 3.

Stand The Wall.6987:

what can you ultimately do? even without 543, you cant stop people from transferring servers without cutting into anets bottom line. if you could somehow prove that the gains would be greater then the loss from server transfer fees, then maybe. how do you even go about proving that though? how do you measure what a “balanced” (has yet to be defined in the context of a more or less perfectly equal population system) wvw would look like and how would one profit from it?

ArenaNets profits from transfers aren’t high enough for them to consider this optimal. Its largely the players that think otherwise.

Normal games have factions and alliances on a server that battle competitively. Guild Wars places servers that fluctuate as servers should in a battle of Coverage. By design, balance would be hard to achieve considering Servers have a threshold and not a hard cap also by design. Its like GW2 WvW is missing an entire category of balance.

Mal shhhh we don’t wanna mess with PvE balance! it will break the game more bore than it already is

SkyShroud.2865:

RodOfDeath.5247:

SkyShroud.2865:

The issue is…..previously the voice on population balancing is much softer than the voice of scoring. It is not that there isn’t anyone mentioning about population balancing but a lot more people on the forums were celebrating and show more concern about scoring than population balancing itself. To put it in other words, there were more people who care about night capping scoring than actual population itself.

In that perspective, anet not giving population balance as priority is logically understandable though at the same time, short sighted.

Regardless, a lot of people have given up the hope there will be even any population balance, those voices have gotten smaller, anet actions towards WvW are simply depressing.

Problem is you can’t speak your mind too much here. You’re instantly silence via a deletion or thread closed. Some are justified, others speak the truth and yet are closed for some unknown reason whether it be a PC move or they just don’t like hearing concerns from their customers.

I logged in this week and you can see it, the groups just look different and smaller.

Ermm….

I have made a lot of posts over the years, many of which are debates and arguments. So far, there were only a few posts deleted due to breaking the rules. I also had a post that was wrongly deleted which the mod team admit it shouldn’t violate the rules.

I used to often participate in many different debates and arguments in this forums, I can say that they don’t delete every negative posts because I have a lot of negative posts

Honestly speaking, many WvWers often could not participate in this kind of forums of debates and arguments without resorting to personal attacks and insults. This naturally cross the line and get deleted. Also, WvWers often derail from topic and changing it into a matchup topic.

To give a recent example of what anet took note of from my years of posting. A few months ago, I made a topic questioning about the scribing cost of guild sieges. I think a patch or two later, the scribing cost for those guild sieges are reduced.

There were also the dolyak suggestion made by another player, suggestion to put upgrade into number of dolyaks instead of timer.

For a game mode as big as WvW, suggestions that require drastic changes, a few logical or reasoning voices will not be impactful enough for anet to perform any actions. It need to be majority voices supporting the idea to move anet into actions.

I feel ya, many of my posts are very frosty lol

However, look at the wvw forum. Lots of questions raised by communites on EU, closed for no reason but the cliche excuse “match up forum”. Easy route taken.

I do often see valid posts from the past get ghost thief deleted though, must be why anet loves ghost thief.

IMHO burn guardians are at least 5x more powerful than necro’s epi’s, but at least the possiblity to get an epi off every now and then brings players to wvw. And that is what the focus should really be… How does Anet get more people into wvw? A simple fix would be to increase loot based on rank: a Diamond Legend should be able to get at least the loot equivelant that someone in a top tier Fractals or organized raid is getting. That would keep people in wvw if the knew their rank would increase their rewards. Remember when eotm loot was great? It was overflowing (literally) with people. However all the wvw people I know are broke, especially the commanders.

How about more wvw specific gear? I like the Triumphant stuff, what about cashing in your wvw tokens for wvw specific ascended weapons or back pieces? What about more variety in wvw maps? Desert BL’s are great in theory, but they are way too big to be meaningful in actual gameplay. Split those things into 3 different maps. Why not throw the eotm map into the mix? Why not do more features for small groups/roaming? (Cause Seals would quit…. obviously…)

Back on topic, we really want/need a huge rotation in server fights. We almost had it, but BG overstacked themselves so much that we couldn’t get a good rotation. So we got Mag whose whole purpose in life was to beat BG. Now Mag is roflolstomping everyone, which isn’t fair to the rest of the servers. If we did away with the glicko altogether (which, lets be realistic, is irrelevant if Anet keeps manually moving servers), then it wouldn’t matter what server you were on because you would get rotated each week no matter what the weekly result. Remove the transfer fee temporarily, open all the servers, and let the game settle itself naturally. Couple that with more people coming in, and you got a winning combo. As it sits now, you are punished for transferring to the tune of 1800 gems, you are punished for playing wvw loot-wise instead of sitting in Auric Basin (did that get fixed? You get my point though), and you are punished for having the wrong amount of glicko for the given amount of participation.

Bring back the Devs and Commander meetings!! Make it monthly!!

Beside putting them resources into Esport scene or sPvP scene that even pros don’t care about anymore they should just put them into WvW.. anet might profit more but Anet doesnt understand that

Thustlewhumber.7416:

Remove the transfer fee temporarily, open all the servers, and let the game settle itself naturally.

No one should have to explain why this is not only a terrible idea but possibly the worst thing anet could do right now.

Mal, for the special low price of 35K I can help solve all of your problems.

Aurika.6751:

Mal, for the special low price of 35K I can help solve all of your problems.

:thinking:

543 should go back to 321

Aurika.6751:

Mal, for the special low price of 35K I can help solve all of your problems.

what server we making great again? LXG Inc too boys

MaLeVoLenT.8129:

5,4,3 is a terrible scoring mechanic and it’s done nothing but create walls that shouldn’t be there. Example Tier 1 and Tier 2. Tarnished Coast has been gaining Glicko rating because of 5,4,3 although TC has been losing players and guilds steadily because of Tier 1 and their inability to produce the coverage of that Tier.

The difference between 5,4,3 and 3,2,1 is the amount of points awarded that gets plugged into the glicko.

Furthermore the scoring gives way to coverage imbalance. Thus, you can’t keep tinkering with the score because it’s directly effecting the health of our communities without fixing balance first.

The imbalance is obvious and it will continue to worsen. The rating every week will continue to float TC and because of this, TC will lose all its players because they are dealing with impossible odds.

This relink, Arena Net gave both JQ and TC 2 guest links, which does nothing but increase the odds of them potentially rising to Tier 1 by giving them a few disorganized pug communities while allowing the servers to get bandwagon to from their guest servers.

In fact JQ and TCs links don’t provide them coverage to deal with Tier 1 and doesn’t change their scenario.

Why is Tier 1 being avoided like the plague? Why does Tier 1 inevitably kill off server coverage and communities?

It’s because a few relink cycles ago, even after countless warnings to Arena Net about the opening up of servers, they choose to open Blackgate. Opening Blackgate created a mass wave of transfers enabling BG to stack beyond the point of the threshold allowed and well beyond the point of any other server. To combat this, servers then tried to buy guilds or stack to the level of BG. There is only one server who was able to pull that off and that’s MAG.

MAG pulled it off like no other. MAG didn’t just buy guilds, but they placed a mentality around themselves which even gained them individual players and a mass of pugs or militia forces from the servers around. Systematically creating something a bit worse than BG itself on a server that was once “high” status.

Now here we have two servers that can only compete with each other, while the third wheel suffers from massive demoralization and player attrition. Because of this the WvW meta for organized forces and pugs alike is to simply avoid Tier. In fact, even BG and MAGs guilds don’t like the atmosphere and some of them even feel as if they’re being forced to leave. Any T2 server that receives the “death roll” of Tier 1 is put on a count down timer before they themselves start to lose pieces of their community. 5, 4, 3 and the stigma of Tier 1 itself makes it so that even if that server losses badly or tanks they could still end up being stuck in Tier 1 for the foreseeable future. In Tier 2, no one wants Tier 1. Its something people avoid at large and because of this, there is no effort to create a rotation or balance or bail the third string out before it dies and losses all its coverage for fighting in a tier it shouldn’t be in.

Scoring at large doesn’t matter for winning. There is no competitive nature to see who is the victor. Winning in Guild Wars 2 is pointless. So why focus on the scoring when all it does it enable imbalance. Why consistently fiddle with the scoring and not be bothered with the balancing of servers when the only reason the servers care about scoring at large is because it decides the fate of their server and their tier.

To fix this WvW you need to start with the problems that have a cascading effect on other dynamics of the game first. You can’t fix scoring if there is hardly a competition. You can’t fix or “play test” scoring if no one is generally caring about it. Fixing and adjusting scoring, when there is little reason to care beyond that of your servers tier makes way for manipulation especially when the objective is not to rise in the Tiers but to avoid a said tier because of the imbalance presented in it.

Is there a TL;DR version of this?

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

Is there a TL;DR version of this?

Yes there is… Read this today.

5,4,3 is a terrible scoring mechanic and it’s done nothing but create walls that shouldn’t be there. Tarnished Coast has been gaining Glicko rating because of 5,4,3 although TC has been losing players and guilds steadily because of Tier 1 and their inability to produce the coverage of that Tier.

Read this on mon after you wash the dishes.

The difference between 5,4,3 and 3,2,1 is the amount of points awarded that gets plugged into the glicko.Furthermore the scoring gives way to coverage imbalance. Thus, you can’t keep tinkering with the score because it’s directly effecting the health of our communities without fixing balance first.

Read this on tues after you watch the flash.

The rating every week will continue to float TC and because of this, TC will lose all its players because they are dealing with impossible odds.This relink, Arena Net gave both JQ and TC 2 guest links, which does nothing but increase the odds of them potentially rising to Tier 1 by giving them a few disorganized pug communities while allowing the servers to get bandwagon to from their guest servers.

Read this on wed after you watch the expanse.

In fact JQ and TCs links don’t provide them coverage to deal with Tier 1 and doesn’t change their scenario. Why is Tier 1 being avoided like the plague? Why does Tier 1 inevitably kill off server coverage and communities? It’s because a few relink cycles ago, even after countless warnings to Arena Net about the opening up of servers, they choose to open Blackgate.

Read this on thurs after the gym.

Opening Blackgate created a mass wave of transfers enabling BG to stack beyond the point of the threshold allowed and well beyond the point of any other server. To combat this, servers then tried to buy guilds or stack to the level of BG. There is only one server who was able to pull that off and that’s MAG.

Skip friday it’s reset night, read this on sat after your cartoons.

MAG pulled it off like no other. MAG didn’t just buy guilds, but they placed a mentality around themselves which even gained them individual players and a mass of pugs or militia forces from the servers around. Systematically creating something a bit worse than BG itself on a server that was once “high” status.

Read this on sun after church.

Now here we have two servers that can only compete with each other, while the third wheel suffers from massive demoralization and player attrition. In fact, even BG and MAGs guilds don’t like the atmosphere and some of them even feel as if they’re being forced to leave. Any T2 server that receives the “death roll” of Tier 1 is put on a count down timer before they themselves start to lose pieces of their community.

Read this on the second mon after your walk with pokemon go.

5, 4, 3 and the stigma of Tier 1 itself makes it so that even if that server losses badly or tanks they could still end up being stuck in Tier 1 for the foreseeable future. In Tier 2, no one wants Tier 1. Its something people avoid at large and because of this, there is no effort to create a rotation or balance or bail the third string out before it dies and losses all its coverage for fighting in a tier it shouldn’t be in.

Read this on tues before you watch the flash again.

Scoring at large doesn’t matter for winning. There is no competitive nature to see who is the victor. Winning in Guild Wars 2 is pointless. So why focus on the scoring when all it does it enable imbalance. Why consistently fiddle with the scoring and not be bothered with the balancing of servers when the only reason the servers care about scoring at large is because it decides the fate of their server and their tier.

Finally read this on the second wed before 12am.

To fix this WvW you need to start with the problems that have a cascading effect on other dynamics of the game first. Fixing and adjusting scoring, when there is little reason to care beyond that of your servers tier makes way for manipulation especially when the objective is not to rise in the Tiers but to avoid a said tier because of the imbalance presented in it.

You’re done, Mal will be expecting your response then.

It is very simple: when there is no chance to fight back, the game is over

Scoring, rewards, and whatnot doesn’t matter at all.

You couldn’t pay me to move to T1 (not even with 35k! >_>). We spent the whole night having non-stop fights tonight, and that just doesn’t exist in T1. Blame anet, sure, but blame BG for endless ebola pin sniping and hibergating, and Mag for being bloated and boring. This problem with TC isn’t going to end with it, however. Whoever is holding the short straw once everyone is done xfering off TC, will find themselves in a similar situation realllly quick. Nobody wants that 3rd server spot, and there’s nothing anet will do to fix that. I was going to say ‘can do’ but we know that there’s plenty they can do, they just won’t.

While much of Mal’s op ed piece is true enough, the observable facts seem to be somewhat at variance with the interpretation. Four years of WvW development suggest that ANet’s vision for the game mode is primarily as an alternative form of entertainment for PvE players who like some PvP as well, not as a specific PvP mode. The consistent buffing of siege, the addition of EotM, the entire design ethos of the Desert Borderlands, the ongoing encouragement of large-scale, low skill ceiling combat, all of this and more indicates the intent to provide knockabout fun for exactly that demographic that gets labelled “fairweathers” or “militia” on these forums. They, not the ever-diminishing hardcore that posts here, are the target demographic.

As a corollary to that intent development focus, once they wrestle the populations into some kind of “balance”, assuming that’s even possible, will move to improving rewards for winning skirmishes. The aim there, I would contend, will be to give GW2 something akin to a “Battleground” offer without actually having to create a new game mode from scratch. Once there are tangible, desirable rewards affixed to the conclusion of each two-hour skirmish any concern over who wins a week-long match will be consigned to a handful of obsessive server loyalists, as will the idea that there is any overall competition going on.

Of course, if and when ANet finally reveal details of the long-awaited second expansion, this could all change. Maybe they will actually pull WvW altogether at that point and replace it entirely. It’s not as though 95% of their paying customers would even notice.

You gambled the tiers with your transfering here and then there and I guess it’s you guys to blame as much as Anet. You transfered to YB and left the server a mess, you transfered to TC and this server is a mess now too.
Yes, the new scoring is bad for TC, but you and your friends trying to bring them to Tier 1 is as bad as the scoring.

Couldn’t care less to be honest.

GrahamW.5397:

Thustlewhumber.7416:

Remove the transfer fee temporarily, open all the servers, and let the game settle itself naturally.

No one should have to explain why this is not only a terrible idea but possibly the worst thing anet could do right now.

I read the “open all servers” and my first thought was “Hey, let’s put 6 bullets in the pistol and then play Russian Roulette.”

Anet puts a system in place, players gamethe system and then blame anet for allowing them to do it.

Its clear that more people want to ‘win’ than be competitive otherwise these massive imbalances wouldn’t exist.

So, I blame anet for being absent and unwilling to dedicate resources to building a better framework, but the real culprits are the players who use the tool to their advantage (and then come here to whine about it).

Blockhead Magee.3092:

Anet puts a system in place, players gamethe system and then blame anet for allowing them to do it.

Its clear that more people want to ‘win’ than be competitive otherwise these massive imbalances wouldn’t exist.

So, I blame anet for being absent and unwilling to dedicate resources to building a better framework, but the real culprits are the players who use the tool to their advantage (and then come here to whine about it).

What are u talking about with such irony? As IF Anet were working to solve the issues…
This game is far from being competitive in pvp or WvW….
They havent done anything meaningfull, besides the culling issues.
And what framework??

This is a dead horse topic, Anet dont care about it, and they cant have servers figthing with their population peak in the same timezone.

RodOfDeath.5247:

SkyShroud.2865:

RodOfDeath.5247:

SkyShroud.2865:

The issue is…..previously the voice on population balancing is much softer than the voice of scoring. It is not that there isn’t anyone mentioning about population balancing but a lot more people on the forums were celebrating and show more concern about scoring than population balancing itself. To put it in other words, there were more people who care about night capping scoring than actual population itself.

In that perspective, anet not giving population balance as priority is logically understandable though at the same time, short sighted.

Regardless, a lot of people have given up the hope there will be even any population balance, those voices have gotten smaller, anet actions towards WvW are simply depressing.

Problem is you can’t speak your mind too much here. You’re instantly silence via a deletion or thread closed. Some are justified, others speak the truth and yet are closed for some unknown reason whether it be a PC move or they just don’t like hearing concerns from their customers.

I logged in this week and you can see it, the groups just look different and smaller.

Ermm….

I have made a lot of posts over the years, many of which are debates and arguments. So far, there were only a few posts deleted due to breaking the rules. I also had a post that was wrongly deleted which the mod team admit it shouldn’t violate the rules.

I used to often participate in many different debates and arguments in this forums, I can say that they don’t delete every negative posts because I have a lot of negative posts

Honestly speaking, many WvWers often could not participate in this kind of forums of debates and arguments without resorting to personal attacks and insults. This naturally cross the line and get deleted. Also, WvWers often derail from topic and changing it into a matchup topic.

To give a recent example of what anet took note of from my years of posting. A few months ago, I made a topic questioning about the scribing cost of guild sieges. I think a patch or two later, the scribing cost for those guild sieges are reduced.

There were also the dolyak suggestion made by another player, suggestion to put upgrade into number of dolyaks instead of timer.

For a game mode as big as WvW, suggestions that require drastic changes, a few logical or reasoning voices will not be impactful enough for anet to perform any actions. It need to be majority voices supporting the idea to move anet into actions.

I feel ya, many of my posts are very frosty lol

However, look at the wvw forum. Lots of questions raised by communites on EU, closed for no reason but the cliche excuse “match up forum”. Easy route taken.

I do often see valid posts from the past get ghost thief deleted though, must be why anet loves ghost thief.

Not everything is deem reasonably closed or deleted which is why when my posts or thread got deleted or closed with vague reasoning, I send in a mail to question it. Not everyone does that but if anet provide a mean to do so, why not?

Of course, I’ve always thought that prioritizing scoring first was a dumb idea because it’s like changing the thermometer when you get a fever. It does nothing!

But it’s also clear that this scoring metric is more valuable to many as shown by those polls that picked scoring and siege improvements over actual improvements. And why is that? The knee jerk reaction is to blame “casuals” and “pvers” except those groups are even less prone to give a kitten about PPT and score since losing just means more things to karma train.

Unfortunately, it’s just the sad reality that the population cares about winning the score than anyone would like to admit.

Sure, I know a lot of you don’t think like that. The very fact that you’re probably here posting and/or reading this crap is because you give a kitten about game quality. You may surround yourself with people that think similarly. Nobody’s going to come out and admit they stay on siege on Gw2wvw.net, yes. because they’d get laughed into the next country. You go out on your nightly raids with your guildies and your friends for three hours and pat each other on the back. Beat up some enemy pugs led by a guild and then they get kittened and voltron up but at least you can have fun until then. But it really turns out you folks are in the minority once you log off— it just goes back to the backcapping race. And this is evident the moment you look up at an objective.

But that’s just how it is. Endless agenda pushing discussion about coverage and what server to open next, sending spies to pull tactivators, strategical stacking of servers by…. well, I won’t name names. And what, why? Because people do care about the score. And if balance be kitten ed, well they don’t care. Proof? Well, just look all around you. So guess what— who has the more incentive to vote in those polls?

Anet seriously needs to reconsider their priorities, because all we will get is mediocrity because it’s supported by people that want mediocrity as long as they get to be on top.