Guild Wars 2

Imbalances mean people transferring. People transferring means money for ANet.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Imbalances mean people transferring. People transferring means money for ANet.

You’ve confused Anet’s incompetence with an actual plan, I doubt they make much out of transfers at all given most “bandwagoners” simply transfer to a 500 gem linked server every new link-up, which is a measly 130 gold, meanwhile they’ve hemorrhaged players since HoT and had their worst revenues in the game’s history.

MaLeVoLenT.8129:

5,4,3 is a terrible scoring mechanic and it’s done nothing but create walls that shouldn’t be there. Example Tier 1 and Tier 2. Tarnished Coast has been gaining Glicko rating because of 5,4,3 although TC has been losing players and guilds steadily because of Tier 1 and their inability to produce the coverage of that Tier.

The difference between 5,4,3 and 3,2,1 is the amount of points awarded that gets plugged into the glicko.

Furthermore the scoring gives way to coverage imbalance. Thus, you can’t keep tinkering with the score because it’s directly effecting the health of our communities without fixing balance first.

The imbalance is obvious and it will continue to worsen. The rating every week will continue to float TC and because of this, TC will lose all its players because they are dealing with impossible odds.

This relink, Arena Net gave both JQ and TC 2 guest links, which does nothing but increase the odds of them potentially rising to Tier 1 by giving them a few disorganized pug communities while allowing the servers to get bandwagon to from their guest servers.

In fact JQ and TCs links don’t provide them coverage to deal with Tier 1 and doesn’t change their scenario.

Why is Tier 1 being avoided like the plague? Why does Tier 1 inevitably kill off server coverage and communities?

Scoring at large doesn’t matter for winning. There is no competitive nature to see who is the victor. Winning in Guild Wars 2 is pointless. So why focus on the scoring when all it does it enable imbalance. Why consistently fiddle with the scoring and not be bothered with the balancing of servers when the only reason the servers care about scoring at large is because it decides the fate of their server and their tier.

To fix this WvW you need to start with the problems that have a cascading effect on other dynamics of the game first. You can’t fix scoring if there is hardly a competition. You can’t fix or “play test” scoring if no one is generally caring about it. Fixing and adjusting scoring, when there is little reason to care beyond that of your servers tier makes way for manipulation especially when the objective is not to rise in the Tiers but to avoid a said tier because of the imbalance presented in it.

The irony of your post is super sweet.

I have played this game mode as long as it has been available and have seen lots of player population shifts for various reasons, several times what can be described as a mass player exodus, but nothing, nothing came even remotely close to getting rid of players in WVW and getting them to quit the game entirely and completely, then the so called alliance artificially rolling YB through the tiers.

Not even HOT exodus, not stab changes, not skill balance, nothing got more people to quit this game then that. In fact, all the other stuff combined together, is maybe equal to this one single thing that got players to quit, uninstall and never return.

And can you please state to us who is the architect of that player exodus and is largely responsible for that ?

I wish you guys would get locked onto TC and there were no transfers, permamently, so that you may get a taste of your own medicine if things continue on their current path, because you aren’t there yet.

Tongku.5326:

nothing came even remotely close to getting rid of players in WVW and getting them to quit the game entirely and completely, then the so called alliance artificially rolling YB through the tiers.

Not even HOT exodus, not stab changes, not skill balance, nothing got more people to quit this game then that. In fact, all the other stuff combined together, is maybe equal to this one single thing that got players to quit, uninstall and never return.

You’re giving them too much credit.

That had a minor affect compared to what happened with HoT, which affected every single server in the game and effectively left wvw for dead for six months. The stab changes alone changed the entire combat scene which I’m sure made a lot of players quit leading up to HoT release.

The alliance only moved YB from t2 to t1 which was already on that course, they just sped up the timeline to get there. I’m not going to say people didn’t quit, but I’m sure players mostly moved, especially the fight guilds down a tier.

Maguuma isn’t that stacked anymore, lots of guilds and players have left the server.

There are basically 5 guilds that actually kill stuff left on Mag, KEK, RISE, VR, and PA, KnF out of those 5 guilds, 3 are NA. The 3 NA guilds all run less than 3 days a week and as far as I know none of them run on weekends and only 1 of them runs on reset. VR is the only one that runs open raid becasue they lack the players. guilds like RISE and KEK all run closed raids. Also none of these guilds PPT.

There are a couple other guilds like SoX and CTH these are basically casual PPT guilds and neither of them run every day or weekends as far as I know. Some other guilds Like KAZO are on the server but they rarely raid. They only contribute pugs to zergs most of the time. I’ve seen their driver tag up maybe once a week.

Maguuma has no SEA guilds or commanders or SEA coverage. I haven’t seen star commanders Like Bloodie tag up in months and the only commanders I see for a long time are text manders that rekt BG and TC while typing in chat. No one on Mag is using Team speak during those times and there is zero coordination yet somehow TC and BG lose those fights.

You hear stories about how mag has all of these great pugs, there are a lot but due to a lot of pugs bandwagon on to the server the majority of maguuma pugs now are trash just like every other server.

ALL BG does is go to EOTM and Silverwates when they are not winning to make it look like Mag is so stacked. And to Trick anet into thinking BG needs help. BG did this to get server links, and to get anet to open the server. They also did this to get ANET to change the scoring to 5,4,3 becasue BG won’t play the game unless they are winning by a lot and 3,2,1 made the scores look to low for them.

I just wanted to Add something valuable to the thread.

ANET you guys don’t know anything about TC. TC was a RP, PVE casual.

The server has been bandwagoned on 3 major times and resulted in the same thing as now. TC will never be a strong server. Stop making TC be in T1 no one wants to play against them and they don’t want to be there.

There are several posts here talking about “history” and the blatant disregard for servers in the past. Please put this aside and leave it in the past where it belongs because the op’s post is in genuine concern for the state of wvw. If this hadn’t happening to TC in the past couple of weeks it would be another server that is being killed by the scoring change and the T1 trap. TC is just the unfortunate server to be caught in the wrong place at the wrong time…..

Xenesis.6389:

You’re giving them too much credit.

You underestimate YB siege meta they made possible by getting YB out of it’s tier.

gebrechen.5643:

Xenesis.6389:

You’re giving them too much credit.

You underestimate YB siege meta they made possible by getting YB out of it’s tier.

What do you mean made possible?
YB has been siege heavy long before that even happened, even when they were down in t4 their opponents were complaining about it.

PS. I kitten well know about their siege meta being on SoS when they came up to t2 months before the alliance moved there. Don’t make me get into the war horror stories with them, you wouldn’t believe the kitten I’ve seen, golems to the left, golems to the right, arrows carts down main street, oh god, oh god, I’ve got to find a corner to cry now.

As I recall, one particular Commander went to T1 sometime in the first 6-9 months after launch to observe tactics and learned siege placement there. I remember when he came back and explained how it worked. It took him a while to convince people.

I think it was TC from whom he got the details. They, at that time, were reckoned to be the experts when it came to siegecraft as I recall.

Then, when The Alliance came to YB years later, the first major guild to transfer, a few weeks before the rest, was a TC guild I won’t name. They took siege usage up to yet another level – I remember being astonished by the sheer number of blueprints they would routinely drop and flash build. That then became the norm on YB and pretty much remained so until about six months ago, when the siege culture began to fall into decline. It all started with TC I believe, although it was a long time ago and i may be misremembering.

These days YB uses a fraction of the siege it used to. Sometimes commanders don’t even use Superior siege, which would have got them a public dressing down in the old days.

Some of you need to take a serious look at what’s happening NOW on multiple servers. And you also need to take a realistic look at history. YB is not a siege heavy server these days, and hasn’t been for quite awhile. So stop derailing conversations that need to happen about the state of the current game with what seems to be YB induced PTSD from guilds and players who don’t even play any more.

Sarika.3756:

Some of you need to take a serious look at what’s happening NOW on multiple servers. And you also need to take a realistic look at history. YB is not a siege heavy server these days, and hasn’t been for quite awhile.

So stop derailing conversations that need to happen about the state of the current game with what seems to be YB induced PTSD from guilds and players who don’t even play any more.

Excuse me sir, but you are now derailing our important conversation about wvw history, and you haven’t offered anything to the main topic at hand either. Please tell us more about what’s happening NOW on multiple servers, and what opinions you have on the thread topic at hand.

EOTM and not having enough rewards, fun stuff, wvw only thingies, etc are the cancer

people who avoid to play because have ‘’only want to win atitude’’ are the cancer

isnt mag or bg outnumber in 1 to 10 is that when bg is starting to lose they avoid playing, same goes to TC they are like ‘’oh man i wont win lets just not play or not log in’’ and as soon they go into t2, kaboom they magically have numbers from who knows where and zerg it up too

there is nothing wrong with having a server ’’stacked’’ what is wrong are the players with their attitude

however anet is good to blame too, their magical numbers and who knows where they get desicion to do what they do is kitten, they dont add anything new/good either, etc when a wvw’er prefers to join eotm or silverwastes, you are doing something very wrong in the mode even when the reason is ‘’ i cant win i dont get anything there is nothing to farm, so i leave’’ attitude

MaLeVoLenT.8129:

snipples

honestly hope its true.

Looking at things from purely a game design perspective, what is needed is a scoring system that is responsive to population changes and does not lock servers into tiers where they cannot compete. Thus allowing match-ups to be fluid and be the most competitive and reasonably matched possible. Fun for everyone.

All the tinkering with skirmish scoring, PPK and the other little bits and pieces over the last six or eight months has had a cumulative effect of obscuring that simple purpose. Worse however is that it has made things worse structurally. If you are on a server that is listed as full, or with bad link partners, or stuck in a tier you should not be in, it is very difficult through player agency to change anything or get out of that position(other than just giving up and transferring servers of course).

Create a better system to allow players to control the fate and destiny of their servers and communities. Don’t worry about making the score look closer, no one cares about the score.

gebrechen.5643:

You gambled the tiers with your transfering here and then there and I guess it’s you guys to blame as much as Anet. You transfered to YB and left the server a mess, you transfered to TC and this server is a mess now too.
Yes, the new scoring is bad for TC, but you and your friends trying to bring them to Tier 1 is as bad as the scoring.

Couldn’t care less to be honest.

People really need to get over his past actions. His post is spot on.

Blockhead Magee.3092:

Anet puts a system in place, players gamethe system and then blame anet for allowing them to do it.

Its clear that more people want to ‘win’ than be competitive otherwise these massive imbalances wouldn’t exist.

So, I blame anet for being absent and unwilling to dedicate resources to building a better framework, but the real culprits are the players who use the tool to their advantage (and then come here to whine about it).

Thats just human nature, its up to Anet to design a system to account for that sort of player behaviour which is why the blame is squarely on them as far as I’m concerned.

Its worth noting that in the only other WvW mode around, in ESO, they got the framework pretty much right from the start. So they don’t need to waste resources tinkering with the system itself they spend resources on balance and technical issues like server performance.

Xenesis.6389:

Tongku.5326:

nothing came even remotely close to getting rid of players in WVW and getting them to quit the game entirely and completely, then the so called alliance artificially rolling YB through the tiers.

Not even HOT exodus, not stab changes, not skill balance, nothing got more people to quit this game then that. In fact, all the other stuff combined together, is maybe equal to this one single thing that got players to quit, uninstall and never return.

You’re giving them too much credit.

That had a minor affect compared to what happened with HoT, which affected every single server in the game and effectively left wvw for dead for six months. The stab changes alone changed the entire combat scene which I’m sure made a lot of players quit leading up to HoT release.

The alliance only moved YB from t2 to t1 which was already on that course, they just sped up the timeline to get there. I’m not going to say people didn’t quit, but I’m sure players mostly moved, especially the fight guilds down a tier.

No, I’m pretty spot on.

When the allaince roleld through tiers we had a group of 15-20 players in entire WVW for about 4 months after at prime time. That is not per map, but entire WVW. I was running with these groups and present for the entire thing.

When the HOT thing happened we were down to at least queuing a single map at reset (EBG) + 2 havoc squads elsewhere. I was also running with these groups / guilds and present for the entire thing.

So no, the HOT thing didnt come even remotely close, neither did any of the other stuff I mentioned. In fact, I again stand by my statement, that the entirety of all the other stuff combined, did not equal the player loss that these guys generated. And I stand by it yet again, as finally now, a couple of these players here and there are coming back, just finally, now, but only few.

WvW system is messed up right from the start anyway. There are minorities that noticed it and raised concerns about it but pretty much fall on deaf ears. The current WvW system has always been showing its limitation and thus is just a matter of time for any issues to surface.

The overhaul regardless of what it was, is necessary as long it literally change how the system works. However, I assume the fear of backlash has kept anet from doing the overhaul and being a regular on this forums, I can assure you that there are a lot of wvwers that are against many things regardless if it is for the greater good.

It is really pointless.. Nothing gonna change as long the wvw community fear changes and anet afraid of possible risk of upsetting the community.

Tongku.5326:

No, I’m pretty spot on.

When the allaince roleld through tiers we had a group of 15-20 players in entire WVW for about 4 months after at prime time. That is not per map, but entire WVW. I was running with these groups and present for the entire thing.

When the HOT thing happened we were down to at least queuing a single map at reset (EBG) + 2 havoc squads elsewhere. I was also running with these groups / guilds and present for the entire thing.

So no, the HOT thing didnt come even remotely close, neither did any of the other stuff I mentioned. In fact, I again stand by my statement, that the entirety of all the other stuff combined, did not equal the player loss that these guys generated. And I stand by it yet again, as finally now, a couple of these players here and there are coming back, just finally, now, but only few.

You’re talking about 1 server, when the Hot wvw drought affected every single server in the game. 24 + 27 servers trumps 1 server, so sorry the alliance making people quit is a drop in a bucket in comparison, plus a lot of players moved they didn’t all quit.

Only good thing the alliance did do which many gloss over is they took YB out of t2, they forced fight guilds to move to t3 to create the fight paradise for a few months.

I mean even if you hate on Mal and his alliance, the majority of TC isn’t part of it and they’re stuck in this hellhole caused by glicko 5-4-3.

You can hate the guy but he’s right, ANet is dumbdumb

The numbers of people still living in the past….

Mal and the “alliance” actually helped with activity and added to the drama. WvW has become stale where most veterans these days no longer want challenges but easy bags.

Anet hasn’t done anything to help a server that’s in TC’s current state. NOW or BEFORE.

You have more choices NOW then other servers had THEN.

1. Wait and hope for a link (This wasn’t an option way back then)
2. Transfer off ( Heard this many times from servers that bought guilds off my server)
3. Buy guilds ( a favorite of T1 servers, except when full)
4. Recruit from PvE (This is my favorite response)
5. Take a break from the game. (Another good one)
6. Play EotM (Like WvW players would spend weeks in EotM)
7. QQ to Anet to get manual glicko adjustment (This usually gets responses from 1-6)
8. Quit the game

time for 1 up 1 down since the server link and point system dont work.

1 up 1 down won’t work.

the third t1 server will get screwed over no matter what.

Anet should have given TC a stronger link. The problem is that there no Anet dev on the ground floor. Most players could tell you currently Mags is dominating, BG has the coverage to keep up and TC / JQ are not even close.

I know Anet devs plays WvW, im just wondering how they are not clued in on current situations.

havoktwo.2147:

1 up 1 down won’t work.

the third t1 server will get screwed over no matter what.

Anet should have given TC a stronger link. The problem is that there no Anet dev on the ground floor. Most players could tell you currently Mags is dominating, BG has the coverage to keep up and TC / JQ are not even close.

I know Anet devs plays WvW, im just wondering how they are not clued in on current situations.

Anets problem is that they make population decisions and linking decisions based on metrics, and those metrics are clearly flawed. Yet they won’t devote resources to fixing these backend systems.

What happened to that BG moron that wanted 5-4-3 instead of 2-1-1?

Maybe someone shot him?

Ruru.1302:

What happened to that BG moron that wanted 5-4-3 instead of 2-1-1?

Getting farmed in eotm.

we should have a season!

Tongku.5326:

Xenesis.6389:

Tongku.5326:

nothing came even remotely close to getting rid of players in WVW and getting them to quit the game entirely and completely, then the so called alliance artificially rolling YB through the tiers.

Not even HOT exodus, not stab changes, not skill balance, nothing got more people to quit this game then that. In fact, all the other stuff combined together, is maybe equal to this one single thing that got players to quit, uninstall and never return.

You’re giving them too much credit.

That had a minor affect compared to what happened with HoT, which affected every single server in the game and effectively left wvw for dead for six months. The stab changes alone changed the entire combat scene which I’m sure made a lot of players quit leading up to HoT release.

The alliance only moved YB from t2 to t1 which was already on that course, they just sped up the timeline to get there. I’m not going to say people didn’t quit, but I’m sure players mostly moved, especially the fight guilds down a tier.

No, I’m pretty spot on.

When the allaince roleld through tiers we had a group of 15-20 players in entire WVW for about 4 months after at prime time. That is not per map, but entire WVW. I was running with these groups and present for the entire thing.

When the HOT thing happened we were down to at least queuing a single map at reset (EBG) + 2 havoc squads elsewhere. I was also running with these groups / guilds and present for the entire thing.

So no, the HOT thing didnt come even remotely close, neither did any of the other stuff I mentioned. In fact, I again stand by my statement, that the entirety of all the other stuff combined, did not equal the player loss that these guys generated. And I stand by it yet again, as finally now, a couple of these players here and there are coming back, just finally, now, but only few.

What you’re saying is that we had an effect on the game state greater than the expansion itself. You are wrong. However, if that’s the case then you should back me when I say the mechanics of the game allow this to happen. In fact, it could happen again.

For those who are wishing death upon my communities and communities alike remember that we are all connected and all it takes is for someone to move again and systematically cause yet another bandwagon and place you and your community in a bad position itself.

You see it’s actually easier to create something like this in 2017 and every 2 months it’s happen due to the re evaluation anyway.

The % value difference between the 2:1:1 and the 5:4:3 are in favor for a 5:4:3 match, because it will allow the server with less coverage to not be as punished for it during off hours.

I believe that there are flaws in every system and there are countless ways to continually improve it.

Perhaps the answer isn’t so much in the 5:4:3 system, but in the way that servers glicko is affected by it. There were talks about a up:down system which would favor winning a match-up to progress to the next tier, or to re-position a server that loses week after week to a lower tier.

Honestly, the whole WvW game mode is a mess and needs a significant overhaul and a dedicated team that responds to their customers in this forum. Additionally, there needs to be integrated devs that are playing during high activity, monitoring map and team chat, as well as joining these servers community websites & voice servers. It doesn’t have to be a long-term commitment. You can collect data for 2-4 weeks and understand all of the flaws that exist in the current system, then evaluate proposals such as these for rework or dismissal. Sitting behind your computer reading data vs going out there and actually being a part of the issue are not the same thing.

And then the wvw team reports back to Mo about the work they did for those 2-4 weeks….
Devs: “We sat around in maguuma wvw reading their chat, I think we got the basics of what’s wrong with the game.”
Mo: “Who told you to work on wvw? you’re suppose to be on living story, now we have to push the next episode back a month.”
Pve players: “Omg wvw screwed us over again!”

Tiny Doom.4380:

As I recall, one particular Commander went to T1 sometime in the first 6-9 months after launch to observe tactics and learned siege placement there. I remember when he came back and explained how it worked. It took him a while to convince people.

I think it was TC from whom he got the details. They, at that time, were reckoned to be the experts when it came to siegecraft as I recall.

Ahh yes, who could forget TC’s famous golem rushes….
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PD2pt08VDoo

It’s demoralizing to me that ANET never responds to anything that is smart, or intelligent. They only respond to cry posts that say things like please open black gate or this pve content is too hard becasue I keyboard turn or insert excuse here.

its simple, blow up current servers start new ones. Communities are already broken, server loyalty is dead, people don’t care anymore so it’s time to start new servers and blow up current ones. There should be new 9-12 servers.

CrimeMaker.8612:

its simple, blow up current servers start new ones. Communities are already broken, server loyalty is dead, people don’t care anymore so it’s time to start new servers and blow up current ones. There should be new 9-12 servers.

You do realize that if ANet does that, they will blow up the entire server system, and stuff everyone into an EotM system right away So they don’t have to deal with this problem ever again.

Suspecting that the competitive players violent reactions to EotM and server pride is the only reasons why they haven’t already done it.

Careful what you wish for and all that wash.

havoktwo.2147:

1 up 1 down won’t work.

It works better than sending the #5 server who can’t win t2 into t1 where they then move up server ranks due to draining glicko from BG and Mag despite being blown out. Think of all the problems with locked tiers we’ve had in 4 years that would have been solved by switching to 1U1D where there weren’t months of fighting a dead server or one that belonged in a higher tier because glicko is so bad at managing bandwagons and exoduses.