Guild Wars 2

TWO problems:

1.) When a server goes to bed or to work the other server has a off-peak time guild run the map fighting nobody and claiming PPT.

2.) Some servers simply win because they outnumber the other team 4 to 1.

THE PREMISE:

This is not supposed to be a PVE game mode. WvW is a player versus player game. Therefore there should be some linkage between score and players.

THE SOLUTION:

The solution to PPT abuses is to link PPT calculations to player ratios and player numbers.

The first linkage should be to total number of players on the map. If there are NO players on the map the PPT contribution from that map should be zero. If there are few on the map then the contribution is reduced. If there are say 20% of maximum then full PPT can be awarded. This prevents the zerg showing up…flipping all the items and then leaving. If they leave then as soon as there population goes down they lose their PPT.

If you are vastly outnumbering the enemy then your PPT should be reduced by a direct percentage of the population ratios. Twice as many players…half the ppt. Half the players twice the ppt. ZERGS will find that they will lose every match.

They can still have fun smacking 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1 however and getting a hit on that 1 guy before he dies.

Skeletor.9360:

The first linkage should be to total number of players on the map. If there are NO players on the map the PPT contribution from that map should be zero. If there are few on the map then the contribution is reduced. If there are say 20% of maximum then full PPT can be awarded. This prevents the zerg showing up…flipping all the items and then leaving. If they leave then as soon as there population goes down they lose their PPT.

So what happens if your idea gets put into play and nobody ever goes to any maps? With your solution I don’t see anyone ever even going into BL’s anymore. If players find out that if nobody is on a map and it doesn’t impact score, well those maps will be even emptier than they are now. I think more match rigging would happen to be honest. We could just raid prime-times and all log out and keep our current tick.

^ OR the other way arround.

Punishing a server fighthing outmaned, the the server could pull that easilly with everyone droppping a bl right?

problem is not the ppt’s , imo.

Just remove PPT full stop…….only award points for capping/defending, killing enemy players…..you get more points for taking upgraded stuff and defending upgraded stuff etc etc…..

Alt accounts will just flood empty maps gaining ppt.

Wow what a bunch of bad responses. Briggah…you must not understand something…The system encourages not leaving the map empty…please read careful and comprehend.

Aeolus.3615 again please read and try to comprehend.

Nozzle…horrible idea. That would encourage zerging even more.

Trinnitty…earth calling Trinnitty….hello! Really alt accounts? That has to be the dumbest thing I have ever read on this forum. Really someone is going to buy an a second copy …..AND….a second computer….AND…be able to control both…running bots to keep from being kicked…AND…count on many other people doing this extroidinary amount of work to get a PPT advantage? Eat some more brownies.

PPT abuses, claims the OP? Someone is committing abuse, simply because they have a different schedule then you? That seems like a selfish accusation in my opinion.

Perhaps you should adjust your personal play time to combat those who play at times you take issues with. Wouldn’t that be an equally selfish expectation?

To help with the obvious comprehension problems “We could just raid prime-times and all log out and keep our current tick.”…Um

If you all log out after capping the map what happens now? You keep getting ppt….

My system. You cap the entire map and ALL of your side logs off. Well you have nobody on the map. You get NO PPT as you are not actively holding a map. So really its the opposite of what you said.

If you have 4 or 5 defenders then you get a greatly reduced PPT. Once you have 25 people on map you get full PPT.

If while you are defending a zerg comes in and tries to take your towers and they outnumber you by 5 times. Guess what? While they are there your PPT foes up by 5 times. When they cap your stuff and they get PPT divided by 5.

So how do you defeat the system and “rig” it?

1.) You can only add and remove your own players.
2.) Id you try to overwhelm (zerg) the other map…you lose PPT because :
a.) You left another map and now your proabably under 25 people….
b.) You now greatly outnumber the enemy and are giving them bonus PPT.

So as you can see it is quite the opposite of all the responses complaints.

You want PPT to scale to BL’s active population? So if there’s no red players in Red BL, they PPT 0 on that BL? Is this to encourage players to go into WvW during your slow times? Because if your opponents have a strong SEA population and you don’t then they’ll tick at 100% on their map while you tick at 0 on yours, then that would make catching up even more impossible. That would also defeat the purpose of going into an enemies BL when they have no players, so what do WvWer’s do when they have no objectives? They all leave and stop playing WvW? Wouldn’t this also encourage players to AFK? Say you capture your entire BL, you and your 25+ group can’t leave because then you wouldn’t tick any points.

This system only really makes sense if you’re playing on tiers with even population on the same time. And that’s pretty much only the top tiers. Say you play with your 25+ in WvW when none of your enemies are on, what is there to do but cap your map and afk there? Capturing your enemies BL when they have no population doesn’t add to your PPT right?

To reiterate a post I made not so long ago:

“Warzone”
Total population >= 50% and no side is outmanned. PPT = 100%

“Skirmish”
Total population > 25% or at least one side is outmanned. PPT = 50%

“Nighttime”
Total population <= 25%. PPT = 25%

If each map use this system, it should be simple and decently effective scaling of PPT.

Just remove PPT full stop…….only award points for capping/defending, killing enemy players…..you get more points for taking upgraded stuff and defending upgraded stuff etc etc…..

Only problem is, it wouldnt work. It would bring up a whole slew of even worse problems than PPT.

How do you define defending a keep?
You dont, that’s how. It would require insanely complicated math, comparing players, comparing kills/deaths, comparing… well, everything. And that’s just a single keep. If you dont do that, then 1 traitor thief will come, slash the gate once, then his buddy inside the keep will go “yay I defended the keep!” after 2 minutes.

Did you die? YOU MADE US LOOSE THE MATCHUP!
When deaths become a major factor in server vs server points, you start feeding a toxic atmosphere among players. They are the reason your server is dying. Stop dying. Stop playing with upscales. You are not allowed in WvW. This is our hardcore mode. Did a 50 man blob just roll over your 2 man group? GTFO, you should have killed them! Now we loose!!!

Do we want to upgrade that tower? No we dont, let the enemy do it!
Upgrading a tower and subsequently loosing it will mean feeding points to the enemy server. Dont have enough people on the server to protect it? Dont upgrade it. Ever. Better to have the enemy take it, some idiot upgrade it (lol) and then retake it when no one is defending.

The waiting game or “why are we doing this again?”
Can we cap it yet? No.
Can we cap it yet? No.
Can we at least try to cap it? There is no try, that only give points to the enemy.
Can we cap it yet? No!
Can we cap it yet? kitten keep quiet, we have to wait for the enemy to leave first.
You will only be feeding the enemy server points if you fail. Better to wait until no one is inside, then no one get defense points! This will only create an atmosphere of non-engagements between servers, capping empty keeps.

NOBODY. MAKE. ONE. MOVE.
You may trigger a defense event. Please stay at spawn until we have 80 man on the border so we can begin.

Skeletor.9360:

Wow what a bunch of bad responses. Briggah…you must not understand something…The system encourages not leaving the map empty…please read careful and comprehend.

Aeolus.3615 again please read and try to comprehend.

Nozzle…horrible idea. That would encourage zerging even more.

Trinnitty…earth calling Trinnitty….hello! Really alt accounts? That has to be the dumbest thing I have ever read on this forum. Really someone is going to buy an a second copy …..AND….a second computer….AND…be able to control both…running bots to keep from being kicked…AND…count on many other people doing this extroidinary amount of work to get a PPT advantage? Eat some more brownies.

Guess you’ve never heard of running multiple copies of a program on the same computer… as well as not having to run a single bot to stay as ‘active’ in WvW… you can do it within the game itself…

edit: Don’t underestimate the extent to which some people will go. Some will indeed buy new accounts if it will benefit them. Some already have before.

Skeletor.9360:

Wow what a bunch of bad responses. Briggah…you must not understand something…The system encourages not leaving the map empty…please read careful and comprehend.

Aeolus.3615 again please read and try to comprehend.

Nozzle…horrible idea. That would encourage zerging even more.

Trinnitty…earth calling Trinnitty….hello! Really alt accounts? That has to be the dumbest thing I have ever read on this forum. Really someone is going to buy an a second copy …..AND….a second computer….AND…be able to control both…running bots to keep from being kicked…AND…count on many other people doing this extroidinary amount of work to get a PPT advantage? Eat some more brownies.

I asked it as a question and you stated yourself

“If there are NO players on the map the PPT contribution from that map should be zero”

So I took that as we have nobody on our BL and the enemy comes and flips it they will get no PPT since my server had nobody on the map. Might want to be more clear before you call responses BAD when you post idea is BAD to begin with..

Now you are saying:

“My system. You cap the entire map and ALL of your side logs off. Well you have nobody on the map. You get NO PPT as you are not actively holding a map. So really its the opposite of what you said.”

Wow thanks for clearing that up.. Thats even a worse idea then what I assumed you meant in your OP. You do realize that ticking 0 ppt doesn’t happen very much unless you are greatly outnumbered.

Lots of players spend time upgrading during the late hours so that when they do go to sleep it makes it harder and takes longer for the enemies to take objectives. With “your system” we will gain no points from our stuff and basically tick at 0 if nobody is on even when we hold stuff? VERY BAD IDEA

You also stated:

“If you have 4 or 5 defenders then you get a greatly reduced PPT. Once you have 25 people on map you get full PPT.”

Which would hurt the lower populated servers. I’ve held our stuff with 4 – 5 defenders from a zerg so why should I be punished PPT wise because my server doesn’t have 25 people to match the 25 zerg trying to take our stuff. Ever heard of back capping when you are out manned to keep your PPT stable???

You are complaining about zergs but want to have zergs on the map to be able to get full PPT.. BRILLIANT

Looks like your opinion is the only opinion that matters so keep coming up with more ideas that would break this game mode.

Dawdler.8521:

“Warzone”
Total population >= 50% and no side is outmanned. PPT = 100%

“Skirmish”
Total population > 25% or at least one side is outmanned. PPT = 50%

“Nighttime”
Total population <= 25%. PPT = 25%

If each map use this system, it should be simple and decently effective scaling of PPT.

While I prefer scaling PPT with the total player populatation there are two things I dislike.

First the per map character that means if no one wants to contest your homelands it will just tick with 50% (more likely 25% since one server has a hard time getting the total population above 25% when nothing is happening). I prefer to count in the total population over all 4 maps.

Secondly jumping from 25% to 50% and from 50% to 100% abruptly. I prefer a smooth scaling in this case.

Anet have already implemented a PPK system some days ago, they could just try to setup the servers for a PPT during the daytime, and switch to PPK during the nighttime; they could just test it for a couple of weeks and check if it does improve the players experience.

Claiming towers/keeps means nothing for guilds and scouts, and even for roamers; give area bonuses for that claimed tower/keep could make the game less repetitive; give the possibility to have workers payed to refresh siege could give chance to scouts to move around and get some fun; guilds that claims towers/keeps could get ‘underattack’ reports from the tower itself.(maybe a dedicated upgrade on the structure to have that kind of service)

PPK could scale accordingly to how many ppl attacks the pray, that will defferenciate zergs actions(gankers) to small scale roaming and soloers; being outnumbered could influence the PPK as well.

and give Quaggans the jump ability, dodge-rolling, and some hand-to-hand skills Thank you.

Macilien.3078:

Dawdler.8521:

“Warzone”
Total population >= 50% and no side is outmanned. PPT = 100%

“Skirmish”
Total population > 25% or at least one side is outmanned. PPT = 50%

“Nighttime”
Total population <= 25%. PPT = 25%

If each map use this system, it should be simple and decently effective scaling of PPT.

While I prefer scaling PPT with the total player populatation there are two things I dislike.

First the per map character that means if no one wants to contest your homelands it will just tick with 50% (more likely 25% since one server has a hard time getting the total population above 25% when nothing is happening). I prefer to count in the total population over all 4 maps.

Secondly jumping from 25% to 50% and from 50% to 100% abruptly. I prefer a smooth scaling in this case.

I dont quite understand what you mean with the first part. Yes, if no one contest it, it will tick at 50% or lower. Thats the point of it not being contested. If you hold all the keeps and enemy is outmanned, its not a warzone. If the enemy hold all the keeps and you are outmanned… Its still not a warzone.

The abrupt jumps is because its supposed to be simple. Each border having three states. If you start to make it a smooth curve, its going to be incomprehensible. 34.9% ppt on red border, 78.2% ppt on green border, ugh… Seeing a boon saying “This region is at war! Full world points are earned from held keeps, camps and towers.” or “Only skirmishes has been reported in this zone, world points from keeps, camps and towers are halved.” is much better than one saying “There is currently 65 people in the zone which means points are earned at 72.45% rate of full”. Which do you prefer seeing in an immersive MMO?

GW2 already have a similar “boon” notification in the borderland bloodlust system, another reason that 3 states is simpler to understand in the current game.

But I digress, Anet isnt going to change WvW in such ways. PPT is “working” as is and has been for 3 years. We will see enough changes with automatic upgrades that will take many months to settle…

Dawdler.8521:

I dont quite understand what you mean with the first part. Yes, if no one contest it, it will tick at 50% or lower. Thats the point of it not being contested. If you hold all the keeps and enemy is outmanned, its not a warzone. If the enemy hold all the keeps and you are outmanned… Its still not a warzone.

The problem I see is that this would punish a server for taking good care of their homelands (or any other map). What’s the point of upgrading everything to T3 and having scouts on the entire map if no one wants to come over and play and you are thus punished with reduced PPT, not because the enemy doesn’t have enough players, they just don’t want to go through the hassle of razing T3s. That’s why I prefer a single scaling modifier for all 4 maps, it helps servers who don’t have the manpower at a certain time, but it doesn’t help those who just don’t want to commit forces to a difficult map.

Dawdler.8521:

The abrupt jumps is because its supposed to be simple. Each border having three states. If you start to make it a smooth curve, its going to be incomprehensible. 34.9% ppt on red border, 78.2% ppt on green border, ugh… Seeing a boon saying “This region is at war! Full world points are earned from held keeps, camps and towers.” or “Only skirmishes has been reported in this zone, world points from keeps, camps and towers are halved.” is much better than one saying “There is currently 65 people in the zone which means points are earned at 72.45% rate of full”. Which do you prefer seeing in an immersive MMO?

GW2 already have a similar “boon” notification in the borderland bloodlust system, another reason that 3 states is simpler to understand in the current game.

Actually I wouldn’t show any hint on the current scaling factor, it would just result in people trying to manipulate it instead of playing the game which would break immersion much more. In my eyes a smooth curve is much less susceptible to manipulation than having just 3 states even if you don’t see them. In addition the difference between 50% total population and 50% – 1 player is negligible but halves PPT, which doesn’t seem right to me.

Can you explain why its a horrible idea?…..
WvW is blobby and zergy mostly anyway….
removing ppt…that clearly has never worked in 3 way fight anyway…..wouldnt encourage zerging, if they just zerg they will loose out while other servers break up a bit and cap more at a faster rate then a blob…..

how fun is it atm when a server can say….ahh dont worry about our stuff in prime time…we will just cap it at midnight and hold it all night until next day…yawn

and also it wont make ridiculous scorelines like there currently are, i.e: between 1st and 2nd place, as once you have capped all there is no more points gaining unless enemy’s flip it and you cap it back or successfully defend it…..currently id imagine a night shift crew that does cap all over night…..has nothing to do but camp tier 3 stuff anyway and hoping for enemy to show up

Skeletor.9360:

TWO problems:

1.) When a server goes to bed or to work the other server has a off-peak time guild run the map fighting nobody and claiming PPT.

2.) Some servers simply win because they outnumber the other team 4 to 1.

THE PREMISE:

This is not supposed to be a PVE game mode. WvW is a player versus player game. Therefore there should be some linkage between score and players.

THE SOLUTION:

The solution to PPT abuses is to link PPT calculations to player ratios and player numbers.

The first linkage should be to total number of players on the map. If there are NO players on the map the PPT contribution from that map should be zero. If there are few on the map then the contribution is reduced. If there are say 20% of maximum then full PPT can be awarded. This prevents the zerg showing up…flipping all the items and then leaving. If they leave then as soon as there population goes down they lose their PPT.

If you are vastly outnumbering the enemy then your PPT should be reduced by a direct percentage of the population ratios. Twice as many players…half the ppt. Half the players twice the ppt. ZERGS will find that they will lose every match.

They can still have fun smacking 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1 however and getting a hit on that 1 guy before he dies.

Pardon my confusion, but aren’t your two fixes in direct conflict with each other? #1 punishes for low population and #2 punishes for high population.

Skeletor.9360:

TWO problems:

1.) When a server goes to bed or to work the other server has a off-peak time guild run the map fighting nobody and claiming PPT.

2.) Some servers simply win because they outnumber the other team 4 to 1.

THE PREMISE:

This is not supposed to be a PVE game mode. WvW is a player versus player game. Therefore there should be some linkage between score and players.

THE SOLUTION:

The solution to PPT abuses is to link PPT calculations to player ratios and player numbers.

The first linkage should be to total number of players on the map. If there are NO players on the map the PPT contribution from that map should be zero. If there are few on the map then the contribution is reduced. If there are say 20% of maximum then full PPT can be awarded. This prevents the zerg showing up…flipping all the items and then leaving. If they leave then as soon as there population goes down they lose their PPT.

If you are vastly outnumbering the enemy then your PPT should be reduced by a direct percentage of the population ratios. Twice as many players…half the ppt. Half the players twice the ppt. ZERGS will find that they will lose every match.

They can still have fun smacking 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1 however and getting a hit on that 1 guy before he dies.

You are incorrect on your take on WvWvW.

WvWvW was originally designed as a combination of PvP and PvE, as stated so by a-net, repeatedly, google iz ur friend for source.

The only thing is that centaurs and skritt for example, are poor implimentation of that PvE. A good implimentation of PvE would be defensive forces on home BLs, that would recapture towers and relatively fast, enough so that the karma trainers would have to stop training and babysit if they want the PPT ticks, leave EB as is. This would put a large dent into nightcapping problem, while allowing the k-trainers to still farm their “k”.

You are also wron on the zerg thing. This isnt tpvp mode, this is WvW, originally designed with epic size battles in mind, sorry but you just can’t get the epic size battles without epic size forces, roamers, small teams, etc. are just simply not epic. While you can have some good fights here and there, ultimately WvWvW zerg vs zerg is what its about, especially if you are in a zerg of about 15-20 and take out a zerg of 40-60. That is the bomb and most fun in the game.

Nozzle.8031:

Just remove PPT full stop…….only award points for capping/defending, killing enemy players…..you get more points for taking upgraded stuff and defending upgraded stuff etc etc…..

This makes more sense to me; eliminate the ticking element altogether

MaximillianVonSchatten.6278:

Nozzle.8031:

Just remove PPT full stop…….only award points for capping/defending, killing enemy players…..you get more points for taking upgraded stuff and defending upgraded stuff etc etc…..

This makes more sense to me; eliminate the ticking element altogether

Well still the server with the most players will win.. More players = harder to kill by smaller groups. So if it was just ppk and points when you take/defend an objective, unfortunately the server with better coverage would still win. I still hope they add ppk to the scores but when they did the test last time, it made more people run from even fights since if they died they would be giving the other server points, only to come back with more players.