Guild Wars 2

To me WvW is too often instant “Game Over!”. E.g., just before posting this, a thief got 95% of my health with one hit. I had been 3 minutes in WvW. I rather would like to play the game longer.

Classes should be modified so that nobody can do instakills. Longer fights. Longer gameplay.

Alternatively the game should have a difficulty level. Those who like instakills would play with level “hard” and we the rest would play with level “casual”. Perhaps in different WvW maps if the idea causes somebody to rage.

Might I suggest getting some defensive stats/skills?

Let me guess you went in there to map, didnt have any appropriate gear, skills, weapons…

X T D.6458:

Let me guess you went in there to map, didnt have any appropriate gear, skills, weapons…

Obviously after 2 years, WvW has become much more of a steep learning curve for new players. PvP provides a way better environment for players to learn and improve.

I dont know about that, some people just have to understand wvw is not pve. It requires different gear,setup,strategy and ways of approaching something. Its an open warzone against other players, not against scripted monsters.

And thats fine, its part of learning which is what the OP should be striving for…not posting about how this should be changed to cater their gameplay style, if they dont bother to try to learn it

Exciton.8942:

X T D.6458:

Let me guess you went in there to map, didnt have any appropriate gear, skills, weapons…

Obviously after 2 years, WvW has become much more of a steep learning curve for new players. PvP provides a way better environment for players to learn and improve.

There are so many resources available, not to mention tons of wvw players willing to help a new player. Yes the learning curve is steeper than pve but if someone is willing to learn there are plenty of people willing to teach. What happens though is that people aren’t willing to learn, not willing to use the suggestions they’re given, etc.

Don’t know that to be the case in this particular instance but it happens a lot more than it should.

Edit : If you’re having trouble in wvw ask in your BL/EB team chat for help. It might take a few times but like I said there are people who are willing to help you, and show you around.

Kanebrake.6192:

Exciton.8942:

X T D.6458:

Let me guess you went in there to map, didnt have any appropriate gear, skills, weapons…

Obviously after 2 years, WvW has become much more of a steep learning curve for new players. PvP provides a way better environment for players to learn and improve.

There are so many resources available, not to mention tons of wvw players willing to help a new player. Yes the learning curve is steeper than pve but if someone is willing to learn there are plenty of people willing to teach. What happens though is that people aren’t willing to learn, not willing to use the suggestions they’re given, etc.

Don’t know that to be the case in this particular instance but it happens a lot more than it should.

Nailed it.

Kanebrake.6192:

Exciton.8942:

X T D.6458:

Let me guess you went in there to map, didnt have any appropriate gear, skills, weapons…

Obviously after 2 years, WvW has become much more of a steep learning curve for new players. PvP provides a way better environment for players to learn and improve.

There are so many resources available, not to mention tons of wvw players willing to help a new player. Yes the learning curve is steeper than pve but if someone is willing to learn there are plenty of people willing to teach. What happens though is that people aren’t willing to learn, not willing to use the suggestions they’re given, etc.

Don’t know that to be the case in this particular instance but it happens a lot more than it should.

Edit : If you’re having trouble in wvw ask in your BL/EB team chat for help. It might take a few times but like I said there are people who are willing to help you, and show you around.

I don’t know if it is as easy as you made it sound like. I have tried plenty of times to get my friends to come to WvW but all failed.

well thats a different issue, if you want to learn personally, theres lots of resources as pointed out. It can be frustrating to get others interested in it or willing to learn, its something many servers struggle with. But if you want to do it personally, its very easy to learn.

AnniMira.2506:

To me WvW is too often instant “Game Over!”. E.g., just before posting this, a thief got 95% of my health with one hit. I had been 3 minutes in WvW. I rather would like to play the game longer.

Classes should be modified so that nobody can do instakills. Longer fights. Longer gameplay.

Alternatively the game should have a difficulty level. Those who like instakills would play with level “hard” and we the rest would play with level “casual”. Perhaps in different WvW maps if the idea causes somebody to rage.

Shhhh! I just made a Medi-guard thief killer ! Don’t ruin it for me!

Exciton.8942:

Kanebrake.6192:

Exciton.8942:

X T D.6458:

Let me guess you went in there to map, didnt have any appropriate gear, skills, weapons…

Obviously after 2 years, WvW has become much more of a steep learning curve for new players. PvP provides a way better environment for players to learn and improve.

There are so many resources available, not to mention tons of wvw players willing to help a new player. Yes the learning curve is steeper than pve but if someone is willing to learn there are plenty of people willing to teach. What happens though is that people aren’t willing to learn, not willing to use the suggestions they’re given, etc.

Don’t know that to be the case in this particular instance but it happens a lot more than it should.

Edit : If you’re having trouble in wvw ask in your BL/EB team chat for help. It might take a few times but like I said there are people who are willing to help you, and show you around.

I don’t know if it is as easy as you made it sound like. I have tried plenty of times to get my friends to come to WvW but all failed.

They are not your friends.

What gear was the OP using? What build? For all we know, they went in with a level 1 character without gear on. Or a full glass cannon build with no toughness or health and was surprised by a class cannon attacker.

Without any context, I cannot have any sympathy for the OP. Unless they offer context to the complaints, I feel it is likely their own fault that this occured.

Thieves and moreover stealth do need nurfed.. its not even close to the other classes.. eles with the proper build can evade and heal all day, necros can melt you down in a couple seconds, but at least they cant stealth away at a moments notice.. rangers can zerk pew pew from so far away you have to have nike’s just to attack them.

Exciton.8942:

Kanebrake.6192:

Exciton.8942:

X T D.6458:

Let me guess you went in there to map, didnt have any appropriate gear, skills, weapons…

Obviously after 2 years, WvW has become much more of a steep learning curve for new players. PvP provides a way better environment for players to learn and improve.

There are so many resources available, not to mention tons of wvw players willing to help a new player. Yes the learning curve is steeper than pve but if someone is willing to learn there are plenty of people willing to teach. What happens though is that people aren’t willing to learn, not willing to use the suggestions they’re given, etc.

Don’t know that to be the case in this particular instance but it happens a lot more than it should.

Edit : If you’re having trouble in wvw ask in your BL/EB team chat for help. It might take a few times but like I said there are people who are willing to help you, and show you around.

I don’t know if it is as easy as you made it sound like. I have tried plenty of times to get my friends to come to WvW but all failed.

Your friends aren’t interested in wvw. Find people who are and make friends with them.

Chairface.9036:

Thieves and moreover stealth do need nurfed.. its not even close to the other classes

stealth definately, its the most bs mechanic Ive ever seen in a game. Going invisible in a game where people fight each other…what??? Single player fine who cares, but pvp/wvw formats will never understand why they chose this mechanic.

Chairface.9036:

Thieves and moreover stealth do need nurfed.. its not even close to the other classes.. eles with the proper build can evade and heal all day, necros can melt you down in a couple seconds but at least they cant stealth away at a moments notice.

That may well be true but judging by reading past posts from the OP and this one I don’t think that this is an issue of too much stealth but rather and issue of just needing to get better at the game. No shame in that unless you can’t admit too it.

Kanebrake.6192:

Exciton.8942:

Kanebrake.6192:

Exciton.8942:

X T D.6458:

Let me guess you went in there to map, didnt have any appropriate gear, skills, weapons…

Obviously after 2 years, WvW has become much more of a steep learning curve for new players. PvP provides a way better environment for players to learn and improve.

There are so many resources available, not to mention tons of wvw players willing to help a new player. Yes the learning curve is steeper than pve but if someone is willing to learn there are plenty of people willing to teach. What happens though is that people aren’t willing to learn, not willing to use the suggestions they’re given, etc.

Don’t know that to be the case in this particular instance but it happens a lot more than it should.

Edit : If you’re having trouble in wvw ask in your BL/EB team chat for help. It might take a few times but like I said there are people who are willing to help you, and show you around.

I don’t know if it is as easy as you made it sound like. I have tried plenty of times to get my friends to come to WvW but all failed.

Your friends aren’t interested in wvw. Find people who are and make friends with them.

ah you would be surprised even the most ardent pve purist, and someone scared of wvw can become a hardcore wvw player. Ive helped many players get into wvw, just have to find the small steps to get them involved, heck try EoTM with them, its not real wvw, but it might make them like it enough to try the real thing.

Kanebrake.6192:

That may well be true but judging by reading past posts from the OP and this one I don’t think that this is an issue of too much stealth but rather and issue of just needing to get better at the game. No shame in that unless you can’t admit too it.

The skill level of the player aside stealth if probably the most unbalanced thing about pvp combat. Of course a really good player can work thru that and maybe win but that doesn’t change the fact.

I’m surprised it took so many posts before someone mentioned how broken thief stealth really is. Combine that with backstab? Good times. That end really fast. Not to hijack the post, but imho, thief stealth should be in line with mesmer’s invis.

But as others have said, when in WvW, ask in map chat for people to come with you, and mention you are having problems with a thief. If there’s a condi mez on the map, I’ll wager they’ll come help you just so they can kill the thief.

Sinbold.8723:

I’m surprised it took so many posts before someone mentioned how broken thief stealth really is. Combine that with backstab? Good times. That end really fast. Not to hijack the post, but imho, thief stealth should be in line with mesmer’s invis.

But as others have said, when in WvW, ask in map chat for people to come with you, and mention you are having problems with a thief. If there’s a condi mez on the map, I’ll wager they’ll come help you just so they can kill the thief.

The difference is mesmers stealth is utility, thiefs stealth is part of the professions mechanic which is why its been broken and abused since creation. Anytime they try to balance it or bring it in line, people complain thief is broken because its part of the profession. And when they continue to do nothing people get angry its to overpowered and abused to hell. And if they put in to many ways to counter it with reveal skills, it will deter people from playing it. So kitten ed if you do, kitten ed if you dont. The entire profession and including stealth at all IMO was a giant mistake.

X T D.6458:

Sinbold.8723:

I’m surprised it took so many posts before someone mentioned how broken thief stealth really is. Combine that with backstab? Good times. That end really fast. Not to hijack the post, but imho, thief stealth should be in line with mesmer’s invis.

But as others have said, when in WvW, ask in map chat for people to come with you, and mention you are having problems with a thief. If there’s a condi mez on the map, I’ll wager they’ll come help you just so they can kill the thief.

The difference is mesmers stealth is utility, thiefs stealth is part of the professions mechanic which is why its been broken and abused since creation. Anytime they try to balance it or bring it in line, people complain thief is broken because its part of the profession. And when they continue to do nothing people get angry its to overpowered and abused to hell. And if they put in to many ways to counter it with reveal skills, it will deter people from playing it. So kitten ed if you do, kitten ed if you dont. The entire profession and including stealth at all IMO was a giant mistake.

The problem is that stealth isn’t that much overpowered and any player worth a salt already noticed it a long time ago.

SoulSin.5682:

The problem is that stealth isn’t that much overpowered and any player worth a salt already noticed it a long time ago.

You haven’t played a condi theif worth his salt yet. They can load you up with condi’s and stay invis pretty much as long as they like, if you managed to survive the first time they can just rinse and repeat until your cooldowns and are all gone.

@soulsin, your telling me in a game where players can fight each other…going invisibile is not an overpowered, overabused mechanic? Really?

Sinbold.8723:

but imho, thief stealth should be in line with mesmer’s invis.

Sure mate!
Also as Mesmer’s clones should be in line with thieves elite skill “Thieves guild”

X T D.6458:

@soulsin, your telling me in a game where players can fight each other…going invisibile is not an overpowered, overabused mechanic? Really?

Given that we have multiple skills that apply reveal now, I do not feel it is a problem at all. As well, most players who want to understand it, have spent time using it or playing a thief, to learn to understand its weaknesses.

coglin.1867:

X T D.6458:

@soulsin, your telling me in a game where players can fight each other…going invisibile is not an overpowered, overabused mechanic? Really?

Given that we have multiple skills that apply reveal now, I do not feel it is a problem at all. As well, most players who want to understand it, have spent time using it or playing a thief, to learn to understand its weaknesses.

2 skills to be precise, not counting extra ac skill. Not sure why its hard to grasp the concept of why having the ability to go invisible in a pvp/wvw oriented gamemode causes too many issues and is subsequently overabused.

@Chairface. Pls for the love of all things holy do not bring condi thief into this. That is NO reason to argue stealth is op. NONE AT ALL. Everyone who has taken time to play every class and learn how different specs play can tell you the issue with condi thief is not stealth, it’s the fact that they can build full bunker and still do a ton of damage because of the way condi was designed in this game. Remove condi damage as a stat and just give it a base amount like in GW1 and you solve pretty much all the problems. Or just reduce everybody’s access to condi via auto attacks.

Just do something that does not punish every other spec on thief that uses stealth because condi bunker anything is too forgiving. D/D is constantly getting harder to roam with because all we get are stealth nerfs and damage nerfs because either noobs try to facetank as a glass cannon against a backstab thief and cry op or others refuse to look at the core issues in the game and instead get one classes specs nerfed completely while the core issues in the game still exist.

Explanation over.

Leave thieves alone. Seriously. I main a rangfer and thieves are the least of my concern. I suggest investing on your armor. Most thieves will not waste time fighting somebody they cannot kill within seconds. I’ve killed a lot of thieves and mesmers on my ranger thati just leave them alone now. I run a condition heavy build that i know perfectly well that it is cheese. You can find a lot of builds online that can easily shut down a zerker thief.

Valentin.2073:

I main a rangfer and thieves are the least of my concern. I suggest investing on your armor.

Yeah but your pew pew channels into the Thief even if he stealths. The rest of us have to be able to see him to deal damage. As far as armor, I wear full ascended armor and trinkets and still take close to 7k per Backstab alone. That’s a third of my health pool in one hit, and followed by whip this whip that, Heartseeker, all within a second or two. Stealth itself isn’t the problem, it’s the completely ridiculous damage that goes with it.

msalakka.4653:

Valentin.2073:

I main a rangfer and thieves are the least of my concern. I suggest investing on your armor.

Yeah but your pew pew channels into the Thief even if he stealths. The rest of us have to be able to see him to deal damage. As far as armor, I wear full ascended armor and trinkets and still take close to 7k per Backstab alone. That’s a third of my health pool in one hit, and followed by whip this whip that, Heartseeker, all within a second or two. Stealth itself isn’t the problem, it’s the completely ridiculous damage that goes with it.

Other classes can burst ridiculous damage also, but can’t pop in and out of stealth a bazillion times AND teleport all around while invis.. pfft

The problem with stealth is the low risk, high reward thingy.
I think stealth should work as a very rare ability. You should use it only once or max twice if traited while in combat. Or maybe it reset if you are out of sight, every enemy are blind or nobody targets you or something.
This assassin style game mechanism is a magnet for the blood thirsty, raging teens whos start to cry and call you nab if you defeat them

Stealth in this game really makes me prefer the method used in so many other games, long time stealth out of combat, for one good back-stab, then no re-stealth while in combat. Alternatively a single skill (shadow refuge) to re-stealth in combat (to either run or back-stab again), I think a more interesting mechanic with back-stab would be that it did less damage, but triggered on blind (and expired it), and or combo with flank/rear, so if you got a rear attack on someone blinded you got a really strong back-stab.

/off-topic

It sounds like there are a few people here who would prefer that all classes are nerf’d in WvW and overpowered in PvE.

Being gank’d in WvW isn’t fun. But there are plenty of traits/skills that prevent being 1-shot. Either take the time to learn them or get used to being gank’d whenever you roam. WvW is a PvP zone, you get players in every MMO who speck out for burst damage like the thief. Its why they’re so appealing. Don’t try and ruin the PK experience for others.

ChoChoBo.6503:

It sounds like there are a few people here who would prefer that all classes are nerf’d in WvW and overpowered in PvE.

Being gank’d in WvW isn’t fun. But there are plenty of traits/skills that prevent being 1-shot. Either take the time to learn them or get used to being gank’d whenever you roam. WvW is a PvP zone, you get players in every MMO who speck out for burst damage like the thief. Its why they’re so appealing. Don’t try and ruin the PK experience for others.

That’s only part of the problem …

We usually have 3 enemy thieves in Golanta … all those skales around make it hard to select them in the few seconds they are actually visible. When you try to follow them the skales will get you into combat and you will move much slower – so the thieves will get away, heal and get rid of condis while in stealth and re-attack while you’re still trying to get rid off the skales.

In a tower – every half decent thief can solo it. So when you have one inside after capture … how many people does it take to flush that thief out?

You call that balanced? One guy tying up 5+ people for like 10 minutes?

Another line I’ve come to hate is: Oh, you have to gear for WvW … yeah .. if you’re not a thief. THEY can go full glass cannon and still have a good chance to survive if they know what they’re doing everyone else has to adjust of course.

I have a thief as well (was my 2nd characer) and I say now what I said 2 years ago: Broken class – get rid of it.

msalakka.4653:

Valentin.2073:

I main a rangfer and thieves are the least of my concern. I suggest investing on your armor.

Yeah but your pew pew channels into the Thief even if he stealths. The rest of us have to be able to see him to deal damage. As far as armor, I wear full ascended armor and trinkets and still take close to 7k per Backstab alone. That’s a third of my health pool in one hit, and followed by whip this whip that, Heartseeker, all within a second or two. Stealth itself isn’t the problem, it’s the completely ridiculous damage that goes with it.

i did mention that i play a heavy condition build so that means I don’t use a longbow. i use axe+warhorn and shortbow.

what set are you running? berserker, soldier, celestial, settler, or rabid? wvw is not the same as pve. thief is only scary when you are fighting them as a beginner but as you learn stuff to deal with them, you’d be laughing about that post that you just made.

btw, why would you let a thief land a backstab on you? once, a thief stealths maximum time that he can stay there is 4-5 seconds unless he used shadow refuge. just count 1 and 2, and prepare to dodge or block and if you have access to an aoe burst, drop it on your feet. always look at your back when you are roaming alone. if you see a thief following you, you can either prepare to go defensive or try to nuke him down first.

i am sure a lot of wvw players on your server can give you a lot more tips on handling zerker thieves.

Really 95% of your health in one hit?

In WvW I hate it when….

….I am on my warrior who only has melee weapons and a ranged class attacks me. All ranged weapons should be disabled when a ranged class initiates a fight with me.

….I am roaming on my thief and am attacked by three people at once. Two of them should be automatically disconnected at the start of the fight to make it more even.

….I am on my support guardian and the enemy stops focusing me and switches to my teammates instead because of my high defenses. The game should force enemies to be only able to attack me.

….I am on my elementalist and enemies don’t stand in my meteor shower after I cast. The game should force enemies to stand in the red circle and soak up the damage, like in PvE.

….I am on the WvW forums listening to people complain about stealth mechanics, because they haven’t spent enough time in WvW to learn how to deal with them.

I write about same before. Instant kill is not challenge play. I saw thief instant kill other player in less 30 second; i saw elementalist instant kill other player in less 30 second, i saw engineer instant kill other player in less 30-60 second; i saw ranger instant kill in less 1 minute; i do not know why these class are not make challenge and in wvw?

Before join gw2 i read wvw for fight against other player so i want to experience. I level fast to join wvw and was surprise by class that have no challenge. First time in wvw; i was instant kill and not know why die fast? I try change to bunker and still instant kill.

Last; why is fair for instant kill class to play all build but other class not? All time i hear; play bunker, use more defensive, use more buff foods but why not other instant kill class?

If i play challenge other class should do same; no excuse, no cheat, no fault for not play challenge.

Example; in fight; use fist and than somebody use stick.. is fight fair? So person who lose by stick is fault? If person lost did not saw stick hit fast to defense; is same fault?

Instant kill= Instant not challenge= Instant Game Over!!

Suggestion 1; remove instant kill class in wvw. Than wvw is challenge.
Suggestion 2; make instant kill class challenge in wvw. Than wvw is fun

DarkSyze.8627:

I write about same before. Instant kill is not challenge play. I saw thief instant kill other player in less 30 second; i saw elementalist instant kill other player in less 30 second, i saw engineer instant kill other player in less 30-60 second; i saw ranger instant kill in less 1 minute; i do not know why these class are not make challenge and in wvw?

Before join gw2 i read wvw for fight against other player so i want to experience. I level fast to join wvw and was surprise by class that have no challenge. First time in wvw; i was instant kill and not know why die fast? I try change to bunker and still instant kill.

Last; why is fair for instant kill class to play all build but other class not? All time i hear; play bunker, use more defensive, use more buff foods but why not other instant kill class?

If i play challenge other class should do same; no excuse, no cheat, no fault for not play challenge.

Suggestion 1; remove instant kill class in wvw. Than wvw is challenge.
Suggestion 2; make instant kill class challenge in wvw. Than wvw is fun

you wot m8!?

are you sure a mesmer ,warrior ,guardian, ranger, engineer, necromancer, or ele can kill you quickly as well?

Narkodx.1472:

DarkSyze.8627:

I write about same before. Instant kill is not challenge play. I saw thief instant kill other player in less 30 second; i saw elementalist instant kill other player in less 30 second, i saw engineer instant kill other player in less 30-60 second; i saw ranger instant kill in less 1 minute; i do not know why these class are not make challenge and in wvw?

Before join gw2 i read wvw for fight against other player so i want to experience. I level fast to join wvw and was surprise by class that have no challenge. First time in wvw; i was instant kill and not know why die fast? I try change to bunker and still instant kill.

Last; why is fair for instant kill class to play all build but other class not? All time i hear; play bunker, use more defensive, use more buff foods but why not other instant kill class?

If i play challenge other class should do same; no excuse, no cheat, no fault for not play challenge.

Suggestion 1; remove instant kill class in wvw. Than wvw is challenge.
Suggestion 2; make instant kill class challenge in wvw. Than wvw is fun

you wot m8!?

English is my second language. I not understand?

DarkSyze.8627:

I write about same before. Instant kill is not challenge play. I saw thief instant kill other player in less 30 second; i saw elementalist instant kill other player in less 30 second, i saw engineer instant kill other player in less 30-60 second; i saw ranger instant kill in less 1 minute; i do not know why these class are not make challenge and in wvw?

Before join gw2 i read wvw for fight against other player so i want to experience. I level fast to join wvw and was surprise by class that have no challenge. First time in wvw; i was instant kill and not know why die fast? I try change to bunker and still instant kill.

Last; why is fair for instant kill class to play all build but other class not? All time i hear; play bunker, use more defensive, use more buff foods but why not other instant kill class?

If i play challenge other class should do same; no excuse, no cheat, no fault for not play challenge.

Example; in fight; use fist and than somebody use stick.. is fight fair? So person who lose by stick is fault? If person lost did not saw stick hit fast to defense; is same fault?

Instant kill= Instant not challenge= Instant Game Over!!

Suggestion 1; remove instant kill class in wvw. Than wvw is challenge.
Suggestion 2; make instant kill class challenge in wvw. Than wvw is fun

Instant normally refers to something that happens in lets say 1 second. Too fast that one could react.
A kill in 30 to 60 seconds is not instant and depending on the abilities of the players this is possible for every class.

X T D.6458:

Chairface.9036:

Thieves and moreover stealth do need nurfed.. its not even close to the other classes

stealth definately, its the most bs mechanic Ive ever seen in a game. Going invisible in a game where people fight each other…what??? Single player fine who cares, but pvp/wvw formats will never understand why they chose this mechanic.

DaoC, back in the day, also had stealth in wvw….and it was far worse than the stealth in GW2. There would be entire stealth guilds running around in wvw/rvr ruining it for nearly everyone, except those guilds that made it their mission in life to destroy stealthers…..lol. At times in rvr in Daoc, there would actually be scouts letting everyone know where the stealther groups were showing up at, so that most everyone could avoid them. There were ways to make builds that were more resistant to the stealthers, but the stealthers became so popular with the ez-win crowd, that they were difficult to avoid at times in rvr on DaoC, especially if you happened to be solo. Just about everyone with any experience in DaoC rvr would run speed buffs, or be with a group running speed buffs, as that was the best way to avoid the stealthers, since they were slow when stealthed.

Be glad that GW2 stealth isn’t anywhere close to as bad as it was in earlier mmorpgs, such as DaoC.

yea Ive heard it being used in other games, just will never understand why anyone would want it in competitive gameplay. Regardless its here and part of a profession mechanic so nothing can be done about that, not like theres a debate whether or not to include it. It is very frustrating nonetheless. I do think there should be more attention paid to thieves in general to address the problems.

Because is it a staple in fantasies games since their conception.

coglin.1867:

Because is it a staple in fantasies games since their conception.

so is flying and riding horses in some, doesnt mean it belongs in competitive games

I never said it belongs. You asked why it would be there.

As far as belonging is concerned, I see no problem with it as a tactical function. I have very little trouble dealing with it when my enemies use it, so it really isn’t a problem.

ah I see, it doesnt affect you much so its not a problem, gotcha

X T D.6458:

yea Ive heard it being used in other games, just will never understand why anyone would want it in competitive gameplay. Regardless its here and part of a profession mechanic so nothing can be done about that, not like theres a debate whether or not to include it. It is very frustrating nonetheless. I do think there should be more attention paid to thieves in general to address the problems.

I certainly agree with you as to why on earth devs feel like it belongs in a competitive game. Having said that, and having come from a game where stealth was exponentially worse…….even though it is very frustrating at times dealing with it in this game……I find it tolerable, due to my past experiences with it in DaoC.

Trust me, it could be far, far worse.

I think that my problems with stealth in a game such as this is that…..I don’t have a problem with classes being given some small, short timered aspects of stealth……but the problem I have with it all is creating a class where stealth is the main component for that class. And yea, I have a thief……he doesn’t appeal to me much, but I built one just to figure out what their weak points are, and how to possibly exploit them.

agreed, it can be dealt with and although frustrating its here and nothing can be done about that. And although Im not the best and fighting thieves I have killed more then have killed me so Im good with that, they are predicatable and although usually a complete waste of time, a joy to kill