Guild Wars 2

Let me get this out of the way straight up;

I play (mostly) elementalist, staff power elementalist. I have played it since headstart and will continue to do so until gw3 comes out in 2 years from now.

It aches me very much that you are deciding to shut down one of the already borderline gone builds in the game; power builds, because dungeons were faster than you wanted. As an elementalist, I have struggle beyond human belief to stay alive amidst backstabbing thieves and eviserate warriors, PU mesmers and dhummfire necros, MM necros and zoo pet rangers, hambows and condi warriors, D/P and S/D thieves, bunker engis and perplexity bunkers. As you can imagine, it has been a long and frustrating path, but I held on tight, because, at the end of the day, while I had no healing to offer, no health to tank any stray AoE, no low CD CC to provide, no conditions to reliably put, I still had my damage to give in a teamfight when everyone turned theirs eyes away from me.

Now you have taken that damage away, and here is whats wrong with conditions and why they will destroy the health of the game;

-Passive, non-skill dependent point-&-click insta win buttons on low CD
-No real warnings. Most of them are point and click or insta cast, unlike most AoE power based spells
-Damage simply ignores defense. Low hp classes such as eles and thieves got the most to lose.
-Very few counterplay, cleanses on longer CD than condi reapplication. Not fun to watch.

This will affect roamers and small scale combat the most. Prepare to have WvW become the same monotonous inbalanced poor state of an esport that sPvP has become, only that in WvW it will be worst. Power classes had a chance at beating things in WvW due to stats difference, now, no more.

Anyways, I know it is a rant and all that, but step by step I feel Anet wants to mvoe from skill-based game to point-&-click for casuals who are too stupi…… unskilled to dodge a giant red circle with a delayed explosion. Yay for passive playing

tl;dr
#passivemeta, #bringsPvPfailuretoWvW #condispam #Bunkerseverywhere #deathofroaming

Is this thread about real fights or wannabe sPvP fights? If we talk about real fights staff ele is strongest class and condi specs are useless.

Fortus.6175:

Let me get this out of the way straight up;

I play (mostly) elementalist, staff power elementalist. I have played it since headstart and will continue to do so until gw3 comes out in 2 years from now.

It aches me very much that you are deciding to shut down one of the already borderline gone builds in the game; power builds, because dungeons were faster than you wanted. As an elementalist, I have struggle beyond human belief to stay alive amidst backstabbing thieves and eviserate warriors, PU mesmers and dhummfire necros, MM necros and zoo pet rangers, hambows and condi warriors, D/P and S/D thieves, bunker engis and perplexity bunkers. As you can imagine, it has been a long and frustrating path, but I held on tight, because, at the end of the day, while I had no healing to offer, no health to tank any stray AoE, no low CD CC to provide, no conditions to reliably put, I still had my damage to give in a teamfight when everyone turned theirs eyes away from me.

Now you have taken that damage away, and here is whats wrong with conditions and why they will destroy the health of the game;

-Passive, non-skill dependent point-&-click insta win buttons on low CD
-No real warnings. Most of them are point and click or insta cast, unlike most AoE power based spells
-Damage simply ignores defense. Low hp classes such as eles and thieves got the most to lose.
-Very few counterplay, cleanses on longer CD than condi reapplication. Not fun to watch.

This will affect roamers and small scale combat the most. Prepare to have WvW become the same monotonous inbalanced poor state of an esport that sPvP has become, only that in WvW it will be worst. Power classes had a chance at beating things in WvW due to stats difference, now, no more.

Anyways, I know it is a rant and all that, but step by step I feel Anet wants to mvoe from skill-based game to point-&-click for casuals who are too stupi…… unskilled to dodge a giant red circle with a delayed explosion. Yay for passive playing

tl;dr
#passivemeta, #bringsPvPfailuretoWvW #condispam #Bunkerseverywhere #deathofroaming

Now that they have taken your damage away?? my god you would think with all the outrageous QQ on these forums that the “crit dmg to ferocity nerf” is going to gut damage builds. YOU ARE STILL GOING TO BE DOING DAMAGE. They are not removing the power spec, and the amount of time it takes a zerker group to cruise through a dungeon, or a backstab thief to cruise through a zerker ele is going to be about 1 maybe 2 seconds longer in each case. This forum does not need any more drama queen as we are rapidly approaching critical mass in that aspect. The game has much bigger fish to fry than a 10% dmg decrease to the highest DPS builds in the game.

A good start is a mandatory comment to get rid of +/- condi duration foods, or at least scale them down to a maximum of +/- 10% like other foods.

Condis in zerg warfare are an entirely different matter aside from imob stacking. There’s so much AoE removal now from eles and guardians primarily, plus other smaller sources, that DPS from condis is frequently useless besides keeping downed players ticking. Even if you are on the periphery of battles and get hit with too much condi pressure outside of group support, you can at worst usually hide back in the zerg before bleeding out and count on an instant res.

Black Scoutsman.5830:

Now that they have taken your damage away?? my god you would think with all the outrageous QQ on these forums that the “crit dmg to ferocity nerf” is going to gut damage builds. YOU ARE STILL GOING TO BE DOING DAMAGE. They are not removing the power spec, and the amount of time it takes a zerker group to cruise through a dungeon, or a backstab thief to cruise through a zerker ele is going to be about 1 maybe 2 seconds longer in each case. This forum does not need any more drama queen as we are rapidly approaching critical mass in that aspect. The game has much bigger fish to fry than a 10% dmg decrease to the highest DPS builds in the game.

Look at this example, drama queen.

Condi bunker > power build in 1v1, due to how easy passive play Condi spam is, and how easy it is to tank at the same time and faceroll.

Let’s say that in Condi build vs power build, Condi build is 1.5x stronger.

After nerfing crit damage, Condi build now becomes 2x stronger than power builds, all year round.

Realist.5812:

Condi bunker > power build in 1v1, due to how easy passive play Condi spam is, and how easy it is to tank at the same time and faceroll.

This is very true. Condi-bunker currently dominates duels and 1v1 fights. It is also powerful in skirmish. Power-bunker builds dominate large group and zergs with some exceptions.

Everyone gets hit by these damage changes. If anything, this helps out the elementalist the most, since the cap on burst damage is being decreased for the more ambush-like classes, such as thieves and warriors.

Realist.5812:

Black Scoutsman.5830:

Now that they have taken your damage away?? my god you would think with all the outrageous QQ on these forums that the “crit dmg to ferocity nerf” is going to gut damage builds. YOU ARE STILL GOING TO BE DOING DAMAGE. They are not removing the power spec, and the amount of time it takes a zerker group to cruise through a dungeon, or a backstab thief to cruise through a zerker ele is going to be about 1 maybe 2 seconds longer in each case. This forum does not need any more drama queen as we are rapidly approaching critical mass in that aspect. The game has much bigger fish to fry than a 10% dmg decrease to the highest DPS builds in the game.

Look at this example, drama queen.

Condi bunker > power build in 1v1, due to how easy passive play Condi spam is, and how easy it is to tank at the same time and faceroll.

Let’s say that in Condi build vs power build, Condi build is 1.5x stronger.

After nerfing crit damage, Condi build now becomes 2x stronger than power builds, all year round.

Yeah I can make up arbitrary numbers too. LEts say roaming around wvw on my zerker warrior i run across 5 condi bunkers. I beat 3 of them and 2 beat me. So Zerker warrior is 20% better than condi bunkers. Take a 10% damage buff and I am only 10% better off vs condi bunkers. See how ridiculous your argument becomes when you enter in random subjective numbers?? I beat condi bunkers with power builds ALL THE TIME. is it hard? yeah. it is. That doesnt mean that condi is automatically “1.5 times better than power” lol l2p

You play a warrior… nuff’ said

Jeknar.6184:

You play a warrior… nuff’ said

I play a thief, guardian and a lb/gs ranger all zerker as well. Zerker ranger is tough to fight condi builds cus I have minimal active removal. But I dont lose every and I would dare say even half of my encounters with condi bunkers. You cant just say “well because condi bunkers always beat me when i play power, then they are automatically at least 1.5 times better than power just cus.” It comes down to knowing how to cleanse, when to cleanse, how to burst, when to burst, how to kite, what to dodge, and a million other factors. having played both sides of the equation, I know that condi bunkers tend to be easier to play, but power builds are much more rewarding to win with. And once you learn how to deal with condi builds, it becomes even more fun.

Jeknar.6184:

You play a warrior… nuff’ said

Also, My warrior is zerker sword (sometimes axe) shield and greatsword. I dont run that hammer train bs or s/s lb condis.

Black Scoutsman.5830:

Realist.5812:

Black Scoutsman.5830:

Now that they have taken your damage away?? my god you would think with all the outrageous QQ on these forums that the “crit dmg to ferocity nerf” is going to gut damage builds. YOU ARE STILL GOING TO BE DOING DAMAGE. They are not removing the power spec, and the amount of time it takes a zerker group to cruise through a dungeon, or a backstab thief to cruise through a zerker ele is going to be about 1 maybe 2 seconds longer in each case. This forum does not need any more drama queen as we are rapidly approaching critical mass in that aspect. The game has much bigger fish to fry than a 10% dmg decrease to the highest DPS builds in the game.

Look at this example, drama queen.

Condi bunker > power build in 1v1, due to how easy passive play Condi spam is, and how easy it is to tank at the same time and faceroll.

Let’s say that in Condi build vs power build, Condi build is 1.5x stronger.

After nerfing crit damage, Condi build now becomes 2x stronger than power builds, all year round.

Yeah I can make up arbitrary numbers too. LEts say roaming around wvw on my zerker warrior i run across 5 condi bunkers. I beat 3 of them and 2 beat me. So Zerker warrior is 20% better than condi bunkers. Take a 10% damage buff and I am only 10% better off vs condi bunkers. See how ridiculous your argument becomes when you enter in random subjective numbers?? I beat condi bunkers with power builds ALL THE TIME. is it hard? yeah. it is. That doesnt mean that condi is automatically “1.5 times better than power” lol l2p

You’da killed all 5 as a condi warrior

Azukas.1426:

Black Scoutsman.5830:

Realist.5812:

Black Scoutsman.5830:

Now that they have taken your damage away?? my god you would think with all the outrageous QQ on these forums that the “crit dmg to ferocity nerf” is going to gut damage builds. YOU ARE STILL GOING TO BE DOING DAMAGE. They are not removing the power spec, and the amount of time it takes a zerker group to cruise through a dungeon, or a backstab thief to cruise through a zerker ele is going to be about 1 maybe 2 seconds longer in each case. This forum does not need any more drama queen as we are rapidly approaching critical mass in that aspect. The game has much bigger fish to fry than a 10% dmg decrease to the highest DPS builds in the game.

Look at this example, drama queen.

Condi bunker > power build in 1v1, due to how easy passive play Condi spam is, and how easy it is to tank at the same time and faceroll.

Let’s say that in Condi build vs power build, Condi build is 1.5x stronger.

After nerfing crit damage, Condi build now becomes 2x stronger than power builds, all year round.

Yeah I can make up arbitrary numbers too. LEts say roaming around wvw on my zerker warrior i run across 5 condi bunkers. I beat 3 of them and 2 beat me. So Zerker warrior is 20% better than condi bunkers. Take a 10% damage buff and I am only 10% better off vs condi bunkers. See how ridiculous your argument becomes when you enter in random subjective numbers?? I beat condi bunkers with power builds ALL THE TIME. is it hard? yeah. it is. That doesnt mean that condi is automatically “1.5 times better than power” lol l2p

You’da killed all 5 as a condi warrior

That statement doesnt mean that condis are OP, it means that condi warrior is OP. A statement I would agree with. Theres simply too many long duration bleeds, coupled with a difficult to cleanse torment, and a spammable burn field. On tope of high toughness, high regen and guaranteed condi removal from the longbow f1. but I digress.

Problem is that you play www wrong way. If you run alone of course you get killed. Go take some keeps and spam shouts laika boss.

Lol at paper staff ele complaining about how easy he is to kill.

Anyways I just wanted to add that many of the specs that he complains about are getting a nerf.

Fortus.6175:

while I had no healing to offer, no health to tank any stray AoE, no low CD CC to provide, no conditions to reliably put, I still had my damage to give in a teamfight when everyone turned theirs eyes away from me.

Putting aside for moment that I actually agree that condition builds were already very strong periphary, and that there was no reason for them to get stronger in relation to power builds, and that many of them are disproportionately easy to play, it sounds like you are misunderstanding the role of your own class. Of the top reasons an organized group takes staff eles,

1. Healing Rain / Cleansing Water
2. Geyser
3. Static Field
4. Lava Font
5. Frozen Ground
6. Meteor Shower

None of the five most important spells are for dealing damage. Staff Ele is primarily a support character. If anything the ferocity nerf will help you die less quickly to power-based gank.

Facet.5914:

Fortus.6175:

while I had no healing to offer, no health to tank any stray AoE, no low CD CC to provide, no conditions to reliably put, I still had my damage to give in a teamfight when everyone turned theirs eyes away from me.

Putting aside for moment that I actually agree that condition builds were already very strong periphary, and that there was no reason for them to get stronger in relation to power builds, and that many of them are disproportionately easy to play, it sounds like you are misunderstanding the role of your own class. Of the top reasons an organized group takes staff eles,

1. Healing Rain / Cleansing Water
2. Geyser
3. Static Field
4. Lava Font
5. Frozen Ground
6. Meteor Shower

None of the five most important spells are for dealing damage. Staff Ele is primarily a support character. If anything the ferocity nerf will help you die less quickly to power-based gank.

This SO much! A zerk staff ele is there as a SUPPORT role for the front line members. We will still be strong regardless in a support role. What’s not to like?

Phantasmal.5631:

Facet.5914:

Fortus.6175:

while I had no healing to offer, no health to tank any stray AoE, no low CD CC to provide, no conditions to reliably put, I still had my damage to give in a teamfight when everyone turned theirs eyes away from me.

Putting aside for moment that I actually agree that condition builds were already very strong periphary, and that there was no reason for them to get stronger in relation to power builds, and that many of them are disproportionately easy to play, it sounds like you are misunderstanding the role of your own class. Of the top reasons an organized group takes staff eles,

1. Healing Rain / Cleansing Water
2. Geyser
3. Static Field
4. Lava Font
5. Frozen Ground
6. Meteor Shower

None of the five most important spells are for dealing damage. Staff Ele is primarily a support character. If anything the ferocity nerf will help you die less quickly to power-based gank.

This SO much! A zerk staff ele is there as a SUPPORT role for the front line members. We will still be strong regardless in a support role. What’s not to like?

I’ve heard this before and it’s not entirely true. If spec’d for damage, they play a much greater role in wiping the enemy out rather than keeping their team alive. 5 elementalists using geyser and healing rain all at once will not out heal the damage dealt from a single meteor shower. This is not to say they aren’t needed, but maybe 1 or 2 max in a zerg and only for healing rain and frozen ground, just forget geyser and call it a day.

Anytime I hear a call for elementalists to go water in zerg fights, I just snicker because I know there is an impending wipe coming. Take out your max AoE dps’ers from the equation, great plan.

Just replace the ele for a superior AC…

Black Scoutsman.5830:

Realist.5812:

Black Scoutsman.5830:

Now that they have taken your damage away?? my god you would think with all the outrageous QQ on these forums that the “crit dmg to ferocity nerf” is going to gut damage builds. YOU ARE STILL GOING TO BE DOING DAMAGE. They are not removing the power spec, and the amount of time it takes a zerker group to cruise through a dungeon, or a backstab thief to cruise through a zerker ele is going to be about 1 maybe 2 seconds longer in each case. This forum does not need any more drama queen as we are rapidly approaching critical mass in that aspect. The game has much bigger fish to fry than a 10% dmg decrease to the highest DPS builds in the game.

Look at this example, drama queen.

Condi bunker > power build in 1v1, due to how easy passive play Condi spam is, and how easy it is to tank at the same time and faceroll.

Let’s say that in Condi build vs power build, Condi build is 1.5x stronger.

After nerfing crit damage, Condi build now becomes 2x stronger than power builds, all year round.

Yeah I can make up arbitrary numbers too. LEts say roaming around wvw on my zerker warrior i run across 5 condi bunkers. I beat 3 of them and 2 beat me. So Zerker warrior is 20% better than condi bunkers. Take a 10% damage buff and I am only 10% better off vs condi bunkers. See how ridiculous your argument becomes when you enter in random subjective numbers?? I beat condi bunkers with power builds ALL THE TIME. is it hard? yeah. it is. That doesnt mean that condi is automatically “1.5 times better than power” lol l2p

That doesn’t make logical sense.

The fact is that condi builds are generally much easier to play. When I finished my mesmer 4-5 months ago, the first build I put together was the 20/20/30 blackwater build everyone loves. Within a single day of playing and acquiring muscle memory for the skills and cycles, I was out rolling most 1v1s, 1v2s, and 1v3s with absolute ease. I knew nothing about the class and never used shattering combos.

I was still losing to power builds ran by much more skilled players, but the learning curve was stupid easy, even easier than a d/p thief, which is probably the easiest, safest and most hated power build in wvw.

The basic math is not hard here. Players that run all or mostly zerker gear and trait offensively have very little defense besides dodging and their bar skills. Condi bunkers most often use gear with 2 defensive stats and trait deep into defensive traits. The theoretical equilibrium doesn’t occur except for the initial advantage power builds often have in DPS, or if the bunker has their defensive skills on cool down.

I am very much afraid that GW2 is going to fall into the same trap that GW1 did with passive pressure getting way out of hand. That was kept somewhat in check at first because GW2 mercifully does not feature hexing, and every class has access to condi removal skills. However, with the addition of torment, more condi bunker stat combos, and the continued existence of the +40% duration food, it’s been steadily creeping back into big problem territory. Nerfing power builds with no changes to condis just makes it worse.

This also says nothing about the PvP meta, or fact that the ~10% nerf to power in PvE just means speed runs will be ~10% slower, because the underlying mechanics of PvE do not favor anything besides maximum power.

DeadlySynz.3471:

Phantasmal.5631:

Facet.5914:

Fortus.6175:

while I had no healing to offer, no health to tank any stray AoE, no low CD CC to provide, no conditions to reliably put, I still had my damage to give in a teamfight when everyone turned theirs eyes away from me.

Putting aside for moment that I actually agree that condition builds were already very strong periphary, and that there was no reason for them to get stronger in relation to power builds, and that many of them are disproportionately easy to play, it sounds like you are misunderstanding the role of your own class. Of the top reasons an organized group takes staff eles,

1. Healing Rain / Cleansing Water
2. Geyser
3. Static Field
4. Lava Font
5. Frozen Ground
6. Meteor Shower

None of the five most important spells are for dealing damage. Staff Ele is primarily a support character. If anything the ferocity nerf will help you die less quickly to power-based gank.

This SO much! A zerk staff ele is there as a SUPPORT role for the front line members. We will still be strong regardless in a support role. What’s not to like?

I’ve heard this before and it’s not entirely true. If spec’d for damage, they play a much greater role in wiping the enemy out rather than keeping their team alive. 5 elementalists using geyser and healing rain all at once will not out heal the damage dealt from a single meteor shower. This is not to say they aren’t needed, but maybe 1 or 2 max in a zerg and only for healing rain and frozen ground, just forget geyser and call it a day.

Anytime I hear a call for elementalists to go water in zerg fights, I just snicker because I know there is an impending wipe coming. Take out your max AoE dps’ers from the equation, great plan.

Healing Rain and Geyser are to provide water fields that are blasted by the melee to restore the entire team to full hp.

zen.6091:

Black Scoutsman.5830:

Realist.5812:

Black Scoutsman.5830:

Now that they have taken your damage away?? my god you would think with all the outrageous QQ on these forums that the “crit dmg to ferocity nerf” is going to gut damage builds. YOU ARE STILL GOING TO BE DOING DAMAGE. They are not removing the power spec, and the amount of time it takes a zerker group to cruise through a dungeon, or a backstab thief to cruise through a zerker ele is going to be about 1 maybe 2 seconds longer in each case. This forum does not need any more drama queen as we are rapidly approaching critical mass in that aspect. The game has much bigger fish to fry than a 10% dmg decrease to the highest DPS builds in the game.

Look at this example, drama queen.

Condi bunker > power build in 1v1, due to how easy passive play Condi spam is, and how easy it is to tank at the same time and faceroll.

Let’s say that in Condi build vs power build, Condi build is 1.5x stronger.

After nerfing crit damage, Condi build now becomes 2x stronger than power builds, all year round.

Yeah I can make up arbitrary numbers too. LEts say roaming around wvw on my zerker warrior i run across 5 condi bunkers. I beat 3 of them and 2 beat me. So Zerker warrior is 20% better than condi bunkers. Take a 10% damage buff and I am only 10% better off vs condi bunkers. See how ridiculous your argument becomes when you enter in random subjective numbers?? I beat condi bunkers with power builds ALL THE TIME. is it hard? yeah. it is. That doesnt mean that condi is automatically “1.5 times better than power” lol l2p

That doesn’t make logical sense.

The fact is that condi builds are generally much easier to play. When I finished my mesmer 4-5 months ago, the first build I put together was the 20/20/30 blackwater build everyone loves. Within a single day of playing and acquiring muscle memory for the skills and cycles, I was out rolling most 1v1s, 1v2s, and 1v3s with absolute ease. I knew nothing about the class and never used shattering combos.

I was still losing to power builds ran by much more skilled players, but the learning curve was stupid easy, even easier than a d/p thief, which is probably the easiest, safest and most hated power build in wvw.

The basic math is not hard here. Players that run all or mostly zerker gear and trait offensively have very little defense besides dodging and their bar skills. Condi bunkers most often use gear with 2 defensive stats and trait deep into defensive traits. The theoretical equilibrium doesn’t occur except for the initial advantage power builds often have in DPS, or if the bunker has their defensive skills on cool down.

I am very much afraid that GW2 is going to fall into the same trap that GW1 did with passive pressure getting way out of hand. That was kept somewhat in check at first because GW2 mercifully does not feature hexing, and every class has access to condi removal skills. However, with the addition of torment, more condi bunker stat combos, and the continued existence of the +40% duration food, it’s been steadily creeping back into big problem territory. Nerfing power builds with no changes to condis just makes it worse.

This also says nothing about the PvP meta, or fact that the ~10% nerf to power in PvE just means speed runs will be ~10% slower, because the underlying mechanics of PvE do not favor anything besides maximum power.

Lol now read what you just wrote. Condi builds are a safety net for people who are new, lacking skill, or experience. And then you go on to say that a skilled power build player can beat a condi build. so……. you are making my point for me, while trying to tell me it makes no logical sense. lolwut?

Now I will concede that playing condi builds is EASIER than playing a power build. Easier does not equal better than.

Black Scoutsman.5830:

Lol now read what you just wrote. Condi builds are a safety net for people who are new, lacking skill, or experience. And then you go on to say that a skilled power build player can beat a condi build. so……. you are making my point for me, while trying to tell me it makes no logical sense. lolwut?

Now I will concede that playing condi builds is EASIER than playing a power build. Easier does not equal better than.

Yes, a skilled player using a power build can often beat a far less skilled player using one of the more annoying condi builds, or at least choose their battles wisely. When there’s such a disparity in skill it doesn’t make a very good argument for it being balanced though.

Cond does less damage than power (PVT vs Dire). Conds are near worthless in largescale combat (too much aoe removal). You need to hit a player to apply a condition, then the damage over time begins… and can still be removed at that point.

But yea, nerf conds plz so my glassy power built characters won’t have to build at all against them -.-

About conds being easier than power… it really depends on the class/build. Cond eng 3x kit is significantly harder to play than a power warrior or guard.

@OP

Well said. The crit damage changes should NOT apply to WvW. Still time for ANET to realize that

Maybe of you are trying to look at just plain condi vs power and saying one is easier than the other. Instead you should be looking at aoe vs single target. AOE is skill-less play. Single target actually takes skill. That applies whether we are referring to condi or power.

Junkpile.7439:

Is this thread about real fights or wannabe sPvP fights? If we talk about real fights staff ele is strongest class and condi specs are useless.

Low quality trolling since launch
Low quality trolling since launch
Low quality trolling since launch
Low quality trolling since launch
Low quality trolling since launch
Low quality trolling since launch
Low quality trolling since launch

style.6173:

@OP

Well said. The crit damage changes should NOT apply to WvW. Still time for ANET to realize that

The crit damage change should ONLY affects WvW if you ask me.
It does not affect wvw as much as you want to make them be because a real WvWer in a group fight almost always invest in toughness or/and vitality to decrease the chances hammer train kill them in one go. They would not use this so called highest dps PPCrit because of how CC and rallybot in this game works.

The only people who’d get affected are those roamer thieves, roamer zerker Guardian, roamer zerker shatter mesmer, roamer zerker scepter ele who tries to bring the opponent down in 2 seconds with the highest spike damage in game by “exploiting” the coefficient in crit damage. Crit damage is the only stat that has a increasing return the more you invest in, and in PVE, the cap is just simply too high. (120~ crit damage = 270% more damage)
I think this type of play-style is extremely unhealthy to the game, much like how the old quickness affecting the game. (old quickness is 2x attack speed)

All I want to say, the crit damage nerf in WvW is not the end of the world. It affects normal WvWer almost to none, and force some unhealthy builds have to respec it for something more healthy. (like investing some survivability instead)

Aomine.5012:

style.6173:

@OP

Well said. The crit damage changes should NOT apply to WvW. Still time for ANET to realize that

The crit damage change should ONLY affects WvW if you ask me.
It does not affect wvw as much as you want to make them be because a real WvWer in a group fight almost always invest in toughness or/and vitality to decrease the chances hammer train kill them in one go. They would not use this so called highest dps PPCrit because of how CC and rallybot in this game works.

The only people who’d get affected are those roamer thieves, roamer zerker Guardian, roamer zerker shatter mesmer, roamer zerker scepter ele who tries to bring the opponent down in 2 seconds with the highest spike damage in game by “exploiting” the coefficient in crit damage. Crit damage is the only stat that has a increasing return the more you invest in, and in PVE, the cap is just simply too high. (120~ crit damage = 270% more damage)
I think this type of play-style is extremely unhealthy to the game, much like how the old quickness affecting the game. (old quickness is 2x attack speed)

All I want to say, the crit damage nerf in WvW is not the end of the world. It affects normal WvWer almost to none, and force some unhealthy builds have to respec it for something more healthy. (like investing some survivability instead)

Not everybody wants to play a survive style build. Some people just like the thrill of killing (and dying) fast. That will never change.

The real problem isn’t crit damage and how it scales, it’s how toughness scales in relation to gear. It’s been brought up numerous times that when 2 classes fight each other; when you put one in PVT gear and the other in zerker gear, the PVT geared player does more damage, how do you explain that?

If crit damage is such a problem then wouldn’t the person in zerker gear do substantially more damage to the point one would look at it and think "ya zerker really does need a nerf? This isn’t the case, PVT does more damage, so what does that tell you? Maybe zerker needs to be buffed and/or PVT gear needs to be scaled down (especially toughness)?

I can understand maybe toning down zerker in PvE but when it comes to WvW, not only does zerker need a buff, toughness should be scaled back, because as of now it makes no sense that player in PVT gear does more damage.

a rant about condi’s coming from an ele of all classes. see unlike must classes in this game, ele’s actually have excellent condi removal. you should look over your traits and utilities, ele’s have plenty of options for combating condi’s.

Comps that are built around balance are inherently stronger than their alternatives. Eles are there for their support skills, yes, but their damage cannot be underestimated, nor their capacity to vuln stack and apply soft CC. Guardians are in the same boat. They can deal impressive damage and yet still bring all of the support something with full PVT could. Building for balance also means that, if your full cleric ele all of a sudden gets caught and killed your main source of healing completely disappears. The same logic can be applied to a zerker ele and its damage, or a cleric guardian and its healing. Support in GW2 is tied to trait, utility, and weapon choice. You then flesh out your gear to strike a balance between offense and defense.

The nerf to Crit Damage will do nothing but increase the popularity of the condi meta in WvW. Condi application already vastly out-strips condi removal on all but maybe eles and traited warhorn/shout wars. Guardians can’t even come close. Even so, you’re dedicating a lot of traits and utilities to combat a specific kind of build. The nerf also means that you’ll be at a significant disadvantage when engaging groups much larger than yours. Outnumbered engagements are won by moving intelligently and hitting harder and faster than your opponent. If all of a sudden you can’t hit nearly as hard without over-investing into damage stats, you’re at an instant disadvantage. To put it into perspective, I’m looking at losing ~25% crit damage off of my Guardian’s build, and I built for balance. Project that across an entire frontline and all of a sudden you’re far less damaging.

ANet’s goal of diversifying the meta has done exactly the opposite for WvW. Well done.

Well when WvW is balanced by PVE, you start to see these little glaring issues pop up….Condi will likely never get nerfed, or rather properly adjusted, because people aren’t farming PVE with stacked condi….In fact you would get laughed out of PVE for running condi…So condi will be safe until such time as the playerbase stamps our feet enough to make the people that designed this game understand the inner workings of it.

Fortus.6175:

Let me get this out of the way straight up;

I play (mostly) elementalist, staff power elementalist. I have played it since headstart and will continue to do so until gw3 comes out in 2 years from now.

It aches me very much that you are deciding to shut down one of the already borderline gone builds in the game; power builds, because dungeons were faster than you wanted. As an elementalist, I have struggle beyond human belief to stay alive amidst backstabbing thieves and eviserate warriors, PU mesmers and dhummfire necros, MM necros and zoo pet rangers, hambows and condi warriors, D/P and S/D thieves, bunker engis and perplexity bunkers. As you can imagine, it has been a long and frustrating path, but I held on tight, because, at the end of the day, while I had no healing to offer, no health to tank any stray AoE, no low CD CC to provide, no conditions to reliably put, I still had my damage to give in a teamfight when everyone turned theirs eyes away from me.

Now you have taken that damage away, and here is whats wrong with conditions and why they will destroy the health of the game;

-Passive, non-skill dependent point-&-click insta win buttons on low CD
-No real warnings. Most of them are point and click or insta cast, unlike most AoE power based spells
-Damage simply ignores defense. Low hp classes such as eles and thieves got the most to lose.
-Very few counterplay, cleanses on longer CD than condi reapplication. Not fun to watch.

This will affect roamers and small scale combat the most. Prepare to have WvW become the same monotonous inbalanced poor state of an esport that sPvP has become, only that in WvW it will be worst. Power classes had a chance at beating things in WvW due to stats difference, now, no more.

Anyways, I know it is a rant and all that, but step by step I feel Anet wants to mvoe from skill-based game to point-&-click for casuals who are too stupi…… unskilled to dodge a giant red circle with a delayed explosion. Yay for passive playing

tl;dr
#passivemeta, #bringsPvPfailuretoWvW #condispam #Bunkerseverywhere #deathofroaming

Yo they don’t care about the ele: They removed healing in mistform and have been admitting for months that we have a survival problem (which we didn’t have before their EPIC FAIL NERFS). Their latest “help” has been to nerf our 2 most essential traits (elemental attunement and healing on cantrips) and they are apparently going to improve or survival again in the next patch by giving massive damage boost to the warrior and guardians, while we are the most affected by the celestial gear upcoming mess and crit nerf (because crit is the only good offense of ele).

Our staff first skills are still slow as hell and our traits have no synergy. They will even nerf Meteor Shower, our best spell (that often doesn’t hit anyone for unexplained reasons) will become super easy to dodge.

So whatever, roll another class or go play the new MMO coming out. I’ll certainly not be re-gearing my ele, so I’ll be doing the later.

godmode.3045:

a rant about condi’s coming from an ele of all classes. see unlike must classes in this game, ele’s actually have excellent condi removal. you should look over your traits and utilities, ele’s have plenty of options for combating condi’s.

I dont blame you for your ignorance, after all, most people who post this kind of things are a)non-ele players, or b)bunker eles specced deep into water.

Power zerker ele do NOT have the best cleansing in the game, the only spell an ele is bringing to remove conditions is ether renewal, which has a really crappy heal with the upside of a relatively low CD. Outside of the cantrip that burns 3 random condis every 40 seconds [now] without breaking stuns, it is simply not worth it an utility spot.

So no, Im sorry, power eles have the MOST right to complain about conditions, specially considering they have the lowest hp in the game, cant stealth to remove aggro/condis nor have Cleansing Ire.

Power zerger ele can put 30 in water. Crappy gear doesn’t mean that you have to use crappy traits too.

Junkpile.7439:

Power zerger ele can put 30 in water. Crappy gear doesn’t mean that you have to use crappy traits too.

Also, isnt there a standard ele heal that consumes like 5 condis on a 15 second recharge???

Black Scoutsman.5830:

Junkpile.7439:

Power zerger ele can put 30 in water. Crappy gear doesn’t mean that you have to use crappy traits too.

Also, isnt there a standard ele heal that consumes like 5 condis on a 15 second recharge???

8 conditions actually

Well I believe power build thieves will be hit by as much with this current nerf…while playing “balanced”(/30/30//) build, our current damage is just normal, not op and sometimes can just keep up the right pressure to win duels. Only the “pure dmg”(25/30///) builds can hit like a truck, but with the current pvt and dire builds right now, its not really that effective to one-burst kill.

So with the current crit dmg nerf, inorder to keep the same pressure as before, one way without changing your gears is that theives with the balanced builds will have to trait like a pure dmg or increase dps by using a full zerkers. Well on the brightside, you wont have to worry against other power builds since they won’t one-burst kill you while wearing pure zerkers, but against condi builds, you’re a more easy prey than before.

Overall, there will be something to sacrifice in order to achieve the same pressure and with the current guild meta right now, thieves will become more useless in organized wvw and less effective roamers than before. Well they’re still be the best scouts in the game…which is so much fun.

note: my arguments are assuming that all players have the same skill level