Guild Wars 2

You can’t waypoint to a keep or tower that is contested. BUT.. the event in the keep/tower called “Repel the enemy attackers” has a timer that counts down to zero and awards players in the area. There are a few seconds when the countdown hits zero and resets that people can spam the waypoint and port while it’s contested. I’m not sure if this was intended or a bug… either way I feel it should not be allowed.

There needs to be gambles made to when to leave a defended keep, or the chance to be killed trying to get to a keep. Setting up blockades to prevent enemy reinforcements getting in and the use of strategy… all of this is lost when people can simply port into a objective while it’s under attack.

Also, only contest the waypoint if a section of the keep is damaged over 5%-10% and/or has certain number of enemies in the zone of the objective. Both would stop players from “gate tagging” to contest an objective.

This system was used in DAOC where a keep wouldn’t show contested by using a (players in area + dmg to section) filter. It was extremely effective and could prevent “gate tagging” and issues like this. This way the keep would only be contested if parts were either moderately damaged and/or there was a moderate enemy presence.

I feel for the good of the game and WvW this needs to be changed so WvW can be about combat and strategy… and not safely porting to bypass it. We’d also see more objectives flipping and more fluid and dynamic changes with the scoring.

Edit: editted to add gate tagging

I agree… atm over voice chat it’s broadcast when you can port in… so it only locks people out for short periods of time before the entire zerg can just warp in despite it being under attack. It’s pretty kittened up as it is.

The flip side is that it’s easy enough to lock out a waypoint without any serious attempt to capture the keep. You could conceivably lock out the waypoint for the entire night.

I think anet posted that they are going to fix this. After that there will be little reason to build one since a single thief can negate usage of it 100% of the time.

If the only option to get into a contested keep is for people to run there. This creates more people in the open areas, more chances for impromptu encounters with enemies and more incentive for people to group up and work together.

Also, with the element of time getting to a keep, it helps outmanned servers actually have a viable chance to take objectives with lower numbers.

Stop contesting when a thief tags on a defender or gate, then “stealths”.
On fortifications with inner/outer, contest on inner being attacked.
[edit:]Oops, the only fortifications with WP are double walled.

A few seconds every few minutes of waypoint travel while under proper attack hardly balances out the ability of anyone to run up to a gate and bonk it once, rendering the waypoint useless. Until that’s fixed first, then no, your relatively minor issue should be ignored.

There was a dev post about it beeing a glitch and that they would extend the DE timer a bit longer so they overlapped and it was never contested. It should have been in this patch, buuht they either forgot or decided against it^^. I don’t have a link to the dev post atm >~<

Laii.2780:

There was a dev post about it beeing a glitch and that they would extend the DE timer a bit longer so they overlapped and it was never contested. It should have been in this patch, buuht they either forgot or decided against it^^. I don’t have a link to the dev post atm >~<

No worries and thanks for the info!

I hope they also address the “gate tagging” to contest a keep as well. Just look at the DAOC system posted above.. it worked great to prevent that.

I can’t find the thread (might have been deleted) but it went down something like this.

-Someone complained about being able to waypoint into a contested keep
-Dev replied saying this is a bug and they will change it so you can’t
-Lots of people complained saying this would be bad in the context of how easy it is to contest keeps
-Devs agreed and said that they will have to look into the issues and make fixes but only after doing extensive testing to ensure balance so it could take some time

As long you cannot contest the keep by hitting it once then yes this would be a good idea. If they fixed this bug and left the same mechanism up to contest a keep, then the waypoints would be completely useless.

Ahmrill.7512:

Also, with the element of time getting to a keep, it helps outmanned servers actually have a viable chance to take objectives with lower numbers.

But it hurts them if they are the ones defending.

The wp system needs to be set for offense and defense. if the outer wall/gate is attacked then the wp should not be contested. only when the inner wall/gate is attacked then the wp should be contested. this would help to counter the speed rezzing of the attackers.

electricblues.1059:

As long you cannot contest the keep by hitting it once then yes this would be a good idea. If they fixed this bug and left the same mechanism up to contest a keep, then the waypoints would be completely useless.

Totally agree, I think that some kind of damage filter to a keep section (wall/gate) needs to apply before a waypoint is contested. I think in DAOC it was 75% before it showed as contested… but even a small amount ( 5%-10%) to prevent gate tagging would help.

This would force people to at least drop a ram or siege to light it up. Even a group or two would have to attack it for a min or two to range it. Anything to stop a 3 second drive-by-tagging.

make gates like walls, not damage-able by players, only siege. Then players can’t contest gates and we won’t have 70 person zergs DPSing down gates when defenders keep destroying siege. All in all a more tactical/strategic fight.

Catisa.6507:

make gates like walls, not damage-able by players, only siege. Then players can’t contest gates and we won’t have 70 person zergs DPSing down gates when defenders keep destroying siege. All in all a more tactical/strategic fight.

There are lots of ways to address this. It’s been done in other MMO’s and gate tagging could be easily eliminated. I really hope there are significant changes to some of the WvW mechanics and Commander and Squad system…..

This next patch is gonna determine if a lot of people are sticking with GW2.

The waypoint is an expensive upgrade. Very expensive. Removing the ability to use it for those brief seconds would remove one of the major advantages of having invested in the waypoint in the first place… being able to get in and defend when things are going to poop. As it is now, keeps still get flipped even with this advantage. All you’d do is make it even more difficult to defend a keep under assault.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Willing-to-share-WvW-details/page/5#post1206432

Already been addressed, no changes in the foreseeable future.

I’d make it where a waypoint doesn’t become contested until a gate/wall is under 90% and is in combat. Now if they cata a random wall down to 89% and then go tag a gate 10 mins later it should contest it immediately, but it’d still be a decent way to make waypoints useful, while still nerfing the graveyard rushing by defense.

Odaman.8359:

I’d make it where a waypoint doesn’t become contested until a gate/wall is under 90% and is in combat. Now if they cata a random wall down to 89% and then go tag a gate 10 mins later it should contest it immediately, but it’d still be a decent way to make waypoints useful, while still nerfing the graveyard rushing by defense.

I’d say only if the inner gates/walls are under attack personally. After all, the waypoint is behind the inner walls.

Proumbro.1376:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Willing-to-share-WvW-details/page/5#post1206432

Already been addressed, no changes in the foreseeable future.

That’s too bad.

A waypoint indicates that a keep has been held for a very long period of time. WvW is more fun (I think) when sieges are successful and property changes hands. I hate seeing a borderland that’s the same color all week. Also, the dominant server will usually be in control of the most keep waypoints across the four maps. Nerfing waypoints would be a simple step to bringing more balance.

Destroyer.1306:

Proumbro.1376:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Willing-to-share-WvW-details/page/5#post1206432

Already been addressed, no changes in the foreseeable future.

That’s too bad.

A waypoint indicates that a keep has been held for a very long period of time. WvW is more fun (I think) when sieges are successful and property changes hands. I hate seeing a borderland that’s the same color all week. Also, the dominant server will usually be in control of the most keep waypoints across the four maps. Nerfing waypoints would be a simple step to bringing more balance.

On the other hand, people invest gold into these structures and have earned a fair shot at being able to defend them. Determined forces will eventually take the structures, but defenders by definition should have the advantage.

Destroyer.1306:

Proumbro.1376:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Willing-to-share-WvW-details/page/5#post1206432

Already been addressed, no changes in the foreseeable future.

That’s too bad.

A waypoint indicates that a keep has been held for a very long period of time. WvW is more fun (I think) when sieges are successful and property changes hands. I hate seeing a borderland that’s the same color all week. Also, the dominant server will usually be in control of the most keep waypoints across the four maps. Nerfing waypoints would be a simple step to bringing more balance.

Actually I would prefer there to be a change in the rating system that encourages holding something for a longer time instead of property changing hands as fast as it currently does which makes it just a game of conquest in a bigger scale.
I would love to really claim a keep with my guild and defend it like my own home for the whole matchup, which makes it feel more persistent and makes claiming something for your guild more worthwhile and offers an incentive to defend it instead of just being the ones that put the buffs and pay the upgrades only to see it taken by the enemy within a few hours. A bonus would be making it possible to customize some stuffs to your guild likings sort of like an alternative to guild halls.

But more on topic: I agree with the linked dev post that they should take their time carefully developing a solution that doesn’t make the waypoint upgrade useless nor keep it too easy to keep perma-contested.

Proumbro.1376:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Willing-to-share-WvW-details/page/5#post1206432

Already been addressed, no changes in the foreseeable future.

Thanks for the link. It seems they are reluctant to change the waypoint porting when the DE event resets. I believe they didn’t want one person to keep it contested the whole time. But there were some suggestions above on how to prevent “gate tagging” but one person or small groups to stop that.

It’s been done in other MMO’s, it can certainly be done here. I do agree that gate tagging would need to be addressed first before stopping the DE timer reset porting.

VOLKON.1290:

The waypoint is an expensive upgrade. Very expensive. Removing the ability to use it for those brief seconds would remove one of the major advantages of having invested in the waypoint in the first place… being able to get in and defend when things are going to poop. As it is now, keeps still get flipped even with this advantage. All you’d do is make it even more difficult to defend a keep under assault.

I think it would actually be healthier for WvW. Because now people need to make a choice. Do we stay and defend or venture out and try and take something and gain a few points. People have to actually run to a contested keep now… this promotes more open field combat, as well as blockade strategies.

You have to make a gamble when positioning you’re forces… right now it’s just to easy when you can just port at the timer reset.

Ahmrill.7512:

VOLKON.1290:

The waypoint is an expensive upgrade. Very expensive. Removing the ability to use it for those brief seconds would remove one of the major advantages of having invested in the waypoint in the first place… being able to get in and defend when things are going to poop. As it is now, keeps still get flipped even with this advantage. All you’d do is make it even more difficult to defend a keep under assault.

I think it would actually be healthier for WvW. Because now people need to make a choice. Do we stay and defend or venture out and try and take something and gain a few points. People have to actually run to a contested keep now… this promotes more open field combat, as well as blockade strategies.

You have to make a gamble when positioning you’re forces… right now it’s just to easy when you can just port at the timer reset.

On the contrary. If they’re too easy to flip, why invest the gold into upgrading them in the first place? It detracts from the point of having a fortified structure in the first place… building defenses to try and hold it.

If they change this, no1 will upgrade to WP, it will be useless, Im a thief and if my guild ask me I can get a contested keep all day if I want, and the WP will be useless. I think the WP is working fine right now, in the end is part of the strat u can use.

VOLKON.1290

On the contrary. If they’re too easy to flip, why invest the gold into upgrading them in the first place? It detracts from the point of having a fortified structure in the first place… building defenses to try and hold it.

I’m just going on the years playing mostly DAOC and Warhammer. Having to make that choice to defend or leave a keep undefended adds to strategy. It allows outmanned players or servers to take objectives and pull people out of a keep. If the players decide to stay in a keep and defend… then they are going to lose objectives and points to a less populated server. It would actually be more competative and prevent less weekly blowout matches in tiers. It would also break up the zergs and create more smaller and medium forces in the open field.

Right now there is no gamble, no risk…. not when you know you can simply port back when someone calls out in /map or /team channel that the timer is resetting. I honestly think it would make WvW less predictable and allow for upsets.

Nuvo.5014:

If they change this, no1 will upgrade to WP, it will be useless, Im a thief and if my guild ask me I can get a contested keep all day if I want, and the WP will be useless. I think the WP is working fine right now, in the end is part of the strat u can use.

I agree Nuvo. They would have to change the way objectives are contested before changing the WP porting at reset. As mentioned above, there are a number of ways to prevent thieves from doing that.

Nuvo.5014:

If they change this, no1 will upgrade to WP, it will be useless, Im a thief and if my guild ask me I can get a contested keep all day if I want, and the WP will be useless.

Obviously you didn’t bother to read what was written by several people in this thread. The thread is not about fixing the WP only, it also has to do with gate tagging, the title even reflects this.
——————
DE’s should not be set times, DE’s should start when a structure has taken appropriate dmg to trigger it and end when it has not taken any damage after a short period of time (something like 10-15seconds, long enough for siege weapons to re-aim and cycle through shots without contested blinking on and off).
The fact that anyone (not just thieves) can tap a gate once and leave a structure contested for 3 minutes is a joke.

Catisa.6507

The fact that anyone (not just thieves) can tap a gate once and leave a structure contested for 3 minutes is a joke.

Agree with you on that one. Lots of effective ways to change that, see what they come up with in the WvW patch that’s coming.