Guild Wars 2

Devs said this game is not about a grind..
Well, we have to farm gold/mats/dungeons to wear exotic (and not only one set!) and be good enough in WvW.
Devs said all gear will be equal, the skill is a power…
And we have to farm more gold/mats/dungeons to get a BIS gear to be better in WvW.

What next?
Please stop it.

Or make WvW completely separated like sPvP. Gear for free, no repairing cost.

They should add different ways to get Ascended stats without playing that dungeon; For WvW that is a must; Items with that stats should be added to WvW sellers, for karma and/or badges. I am not going to play with people with better stats, if I don’t want to play a dungeon.

From the looks of it, the Ascended loot has inherently slightly better statistics than current exotics, regardless of whatever infusion is going to do.

Pvpers being the competitive bunch they are, this means yes, PvE loot grind is back in GW2 too.

Also, WvW badges are now completely and utterly useless as the only game mechanic advantage they were giving out (pow/vit/tou jewerly) is going to be replaced with better Ascended items. And they are starting to introduce this new tier of loot with rings…

Nemo.6295:

I’m gonna repeat what I thold some peope moaning about this in LA yesterday:

Are you honestly complaining about new content?

I get it that you are upset about changing your pants or whatever, but the stat increase is minor, meaning you don’t have to put yourself through what you call a “HELL” and what the rest call playing an MMO cause this is an MMO, right?

Grind is not content.

The big issue is it represents a change in basic philosophy, which if it continues means this game will be WOW jr. Most people are playing this game because they do not like WOW.

dymm.3625:

Devs said this game is not about a grind..
Well, we have to farm gold/mats/dungeons to wear exotic (and not only one set!) and be good enough in WvW.
Devs said all gear will be equal, the skill is a power…
And we have to farm more gold/mats/dungeons to get a BIS gear to be better in WvW.

What next?
Please stop it.

Or make WvW completely separated like sPvP. Gear for free, no repairing cost.

This

Enenion.8127:

nvmvoidrays.2158:

Gisei.5749:

Actually, by reading that quote in OP, it sounds like this new gear will be exclusively for this new dungeon. May be wishful thinking though.

And quit raging people. Just wait for the 15th, and speak up then if bad things come to be.

it is.

no one has realized this yet, apparently:

ascended gear can’t be slotted with runes or sigils.

are you going to give up rune benefits for an extra couple stat points? i won’t.

This exactly. Look at the stats given by the new Ascended gear in the image below. At first glance this appears to be a considerable upgrade from Exotic gear, but once you factor in that the slot on the Ascended gear cannot have Jewels, Runes or Sigils on it it is actually only a difference of 5 points in Power and Precision (less than 1% crit chance different) from Exotic gear assuming the infusion slot does not carry stats with it. From the sound of the blog post the infusion slot is to deal specifically with Agony, or monsters that cause Agony, which implies that they won’t carry excessive stats. If this is the case the stat upgrade is extremely minor, and when compared to what you are losing in customization it may well not be worth it to upgrade for WvW.

Additionally, it’s been confirmed that this new tier of items can be crafted in the mystic forge, which is present in WvW. If you really want the stat upgrade you can upgrade using the mystic forges located in SMC and the Garrison in each of the borderlands. .

Dude. 68power/68prec/10%mf
vs
63p/63prec/7%mf

8% increase in power, prec, and 43% increase in MF.

8% increase across all your gear is HUGE. And if crit damage has the same 7-10% shift, 43% across all items? yeah..

Gear can be crafted in the forge. doesnt say which pieces does it. nor what materials. we know a new item will be needed. what if this item comes from dungeons?

They could also add new WvW only gear that is obtainable by badges also.

dymm.3625:

…
Or make WvW completely separated like sPvP. Gear for free, no repairing cost.

They should have done this right from the start. It’s not too late for them to do it now, and it would make a lot of us lose interest in continuing our rage storm because the only ones really affected directly by this are the WvW players who will have to fight the dungeon runners and maybe cash shop gold buyers wearing this gear.

I won’t run dungeons over and over and I sure won’t buy gold with gems to compete in WvW. As soon as the ones who will are kitted out, to use Arenanet’s term, then I’m done with WvW.

That will certainly mean I won’t spend more money on this game, since even though I’ve actually had a surprising amount of fun wandering around solo on my ranger leveling in pve this week, it’s WvW that would keep me coming back. And believe me, WvW, for all that I love it, has enough problems without adding one more!

If this Is the road they are going down then to make it so those who play this game for wvw only would need the following done.

1) a more deverse set of badge gear with different stats for different builds because some people need crit or cond damage on there gear.

2) runes, sigials,gems that bring wvw gear inline with ascended gear (from badges)

3) badges need to be awarded upon kill and not from looting because if the above is done badges just became way more important.

4) some form of lateral progression from WvW.

Enenion.8127:

nvmvoidrays.2158:

Gisei.5749:

Actually, by reading that quote in OP, it sounds like this new gear will be exclusively for this new dungeon. May be wishful thinking though.

And quit raging people. Just wait for the 15th, and speak up then if bad things come to be.

it is.

no one has realized this yet, apparently:

ascended gear can’t be slotted with runes or sigils.

are you going to give up rune benefits for an extra couple stat points? i won’t.

This exactly. Look at the stats given by the new Ascended gear in the image below. At first glance this appears to be a considerable upgrade from Exotic gear, but once you factor in that the slot on the Ascended gear cannot have Jewels, Runes or Sigils on it it is actually only a difference of 5 points in Power and Precision (less than 1% crit chance different) from Exotic gear assuming the infusion slot does not carry stats with it. From the sound of the blog post the infusion slot is to deal specifically with Agony, or monsters that cause Agony, which implies that they won’t carry excessive stats. If this is the case the stat upgrade is extremely minor, and when compared to what you are losing in customization it may well not be worth it to upgrade for WvW.

Additionally, it’s been confirmed that this new tier of items can be crafted in the mystic forge, which is present in WvW. If you really want the stat upgrade you can upgrade using the mystic forges located in SMC and the Garrison in each of the borderlands. .

Actually only the backpacks can be. You have to do the new dungeon to get the rings.

So the thing Anet never want to do, will come soon. (Grind)

So they lost there way to make an other MMO since now it will be Gear Grind maybe Shopitems where you can buy these items, who knows the broke one promise maybe the next will broken too

With ascended gear you gain roughly

Item Stat
+2 stat 1
+2 Stat 2
+2% Stat 3

additional stats to replace orbs/runes
+3 stat 1
+3 stat 2
+1% stat 3

roughly…

in wvw you won’t gain a benefit from the infusion slot.

so you will gain more base stats per item and you will gain a slightly more powerful equivalent of an upgrade (if you split the stats how I have) but its not a huge difference.

Seriously guys, if this wasn’t a new tier of gear that was set to replace exotics in everyway which is the impression most people seem to have.

Then arenanet would have said something by now, they would not let this misconception fester.

Unless they listen to the outrage this game will become WoW with some watered down RvR.

KinkyWarrior.1879:

I doubt said Ascended Gear would be THAT much better than level 80 exotics. Well I hope so anyway.

It’s better enough to make me do more dungeons:
[img]https://d2vn94glaxzkz3.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Ascended-EN.png[/img]

Anet 0 Blizzard 1

Anet could not sell there system.

I am less than excited about gear grinding, I think seeing it being introduced so early after release is very troubling sign.

At the same time gear inflation in GW2 isn’t that bad, you could effectively PvP in a set of yellow-quality gear that is very easy to obtain.

Overall – Anet, you are put on notice. You created WvW game, and we, the WvW players DO NOT WANT gear grinding.

More an Agony. WoW used to have “resistance” sets, everyone Hated them. Then they decided to split PvP and PvE gear, again everyone Hated it.

Please keep itemization single track. You do not have PvE content to support separate itemization track, and you do not have non-grindy (say ranked Arenas) PvP content to progress gear that way.

nofo.8469:

Seriously guys, if this wasn’t a new tier of gear that was set to replace exotics in everyway which is the impression most people seem to have.

Then arenanet would have said something by now, they would not let this misconception fester.

They did, in this news post https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/

It’s not going to completely replace exotics, and the way it looks to me is that the only noticable effect will be when running that new dungeon in the harder modes. For all other aspects of the game it has just +2 of every stat without the posibility to choose the stats yourself because you can’t mod them except for the infusion thingies that only are effective in the dungeon.

Everyone is so against “power creep” due to a WvW ranking system, well this is way worse. Power creep via PvE crap you need to do. It doesn’t matter if it’s 1 stat point on each piece. It’s still creep and they said it’s just the beginning. Can’t believe Anet is going down this path. They could have kept it exactly the same but left the stats = exotic and all would be good.

People saying you need to give up runes/sigils, we don’t know that.. The armor isn’t out. The ring example has higher stats than an exotic with a gem + the PvE infusion slot. Therefore we must all strive to get at the very least, a black slot, 2x rings, 2x accessories and an amulet even if runes and sigil slots are missing from the rest. I doubt they will be because do you think PvE players will be happy about having to give those up?

holska.4127:

nofo.8469:

Seriously guys, if this wasn’t a new tier of gear that was set to replace exotics in everyway which is the impression most people seem to have.

Then arenanet would have said something by now, they would not let this misconception fester.

They did, in this news post https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/

It’s not going to completely replace exotics, and the way it looks to me is that the only noticable effect will be when running that new dungeon in the harder modes. For all other aspects of the game it has just +2 of every stat without the posibility to choose the stats yourself because you can’t mod them except for the infusion thingies that only are effective in the dungeon.

If anything that post indicates they will replace exotics.

Assuming infusions are only useful in dungeons which it doesn’t state anywhere that is the case, but lets assume that for a minute and be optimistic.

Then in the example of that thread there is still a:

+5 power
+5 precision
+3% MF

Now let’s say MF is another stat, that translates to what, in an explorers set about 40 pts in another stat? Reason I’m using this example is that post blatantly states they intend on adding other ascended sets and I am sure they wont all be MF sets.

Then this is well over 300 stat points difference.

Pretty mandatory if you ask me, even if its all MF sets for whatever reason the stats will still be pretty much mandatory for competitive players.

This post indicates that ascended gear will replace exotics 100% for top end gear. Unless they listen to the community and withdraw their stupid notion this game should become a gear treadmill.

Slapping additional MF on exotic-level gear would be a good way to do “gear creep”. Since MF doesn’t help you fight in WvW nobody would care if you have 0 or over 9000 of it.

How will a few extra stats impact Zerg vs Zerg?

Sifu.6527:

How will a few extra stats impact Zerg vs Zerg?

Frankly, this shows a lack of appreciation for the finer points of WvW.

Svarty.8019:

Sifu.6527:

How will a few extra stats impact Zerg vs Zerg?

Frankly, this shows a lack of appreciation for the finer points of WvW.

Same lack of understanding that defined how op the orbs where.

Laef.4519:

This is just Land of the Dead all over again (Warhammers first (and last) content update)..
An update that forced rvr (wvw) players to do pve dungeons to stay competitive in pvp..
:(

At least there you could still kill people. Here you can’t even do the monthly anymore since they make you do pve dungeons, and the gold and karma we get is greatly devaluated by the pvers farming CS and that plinx thing all day long with no risk whatsoever.

Spiders Spiders Spiders.8043:

Laef.4519:

This is just Land of the Dead all over again (Warhammers first (and last) content update)..
An update that forced rvr (wvw) players to do pve dungeons to stay competitive in pvp..
:(

At least there you could still kill people. Here you can’t even do the monthly anymore since they make you do pve dungeons, and the gold and karma we get is greatly devaluated by the pvers farming CS and that plinx thing all day long with no risk whatsoever.

unfortunately due to the price of armor repair, siege, upgrades etc the only way to actually not lose money in WvW is to farm for a day and then pvp the rest of the week. If armor repair costs were reduced then we wouldn’t need to farm except for building keep and garrison upgrades (siege can easily be bought by selling what you get in WvW)

Hrist.8972:

Whatever, I’ll just adapt.

Grind. You’ll just grind.

nofo.8469:

This post indicates that ascended gear will replace exotics 100% for top end gear. Unless they listen to the community and withdraw their stupid notion this game should become a gear treadmill.

Because calling it stupid will totally get them to listen to you, right? Let’s try to be a bit more constructive.

I understand their reasoning behind introducing these new items, and despite what people say, personal progression is very important to many players who play MMOs. They’re doing the right thing with a gradual introduction of this new “slightly better than exotics” gear, but I’d love to hear from a stats guy how much the increase makes a difference, even in theory. That being said, it’s still a statistical increase and a couple of points can make all the difference in any PvP fight.

I’m concerned, because of the fact that this gear is only acquired through PvE content. For someone who has a bit of an aversion to raids and dungeon-running, the fact that I have no alternate means of acquiring equivalent gear of this nature is kind of rough to swallow. I’d be fine with this if they’d introduce equivalent items acquired via badges in WvW or through crafting recipes – something that would allow me a path to the increases that didn’t involve dungeons.

I have to step in and call BS. I leveled 10-80 in WvW, got all my gear through WvW Karma and Badges and I consistently make 50s-1g night of WvW. I don’t even follow zerg that much. This isn’t much, but you don’t have to farm to WvW.

If you are losing money in WvW you are ether a) needlessly kamikaze a lot b) don’t go after objectives c) needlessly blow money on expensive siege and/or garrison upgrades.

Casia.4281:

Svarty.8019:

Sifu.6527:

How will a few extra stats impact Zerg vs Zerg?

Frankly, this shows a lack of appreciation for the finer points of WvW.

Same lack of understanding that defined how op the orbs where.

What finer points in Wvw are you talking about? 1v1 and roaming in a small group? Sorry but class/traits are more important in those situations. Stats is just the icing on the cake.

Regarding the orb statement, it’s not the stats that OP. it is the perception that OP. omg they have 3 orbs!!! They are toooo powerful now! Their level is over 9000! I’m not going out there. It’s hopeless /sad face

People are underestimating how large a power increase this armor could give. If the +% magic find is replaced by +% crit damage on every armor piece, you’re talking something like +40% crit damage for getting the new armor in every slot. These new items will mandatory for high level WvW.

@Mouse
8% stat increase on that ring vs exo. 5 / 63 * 100

This of course doesn’t mean that you’ll gain 8% more whatever globally as other “factors” increase your stats. Levels, traits and so on.

What’s certain is that it will up damage vs mitigation (defense) because of how both have been implemented while granting peeps in full Ascended an advantage vs people in exotic through PVE dungeons.

people are also underestimating wether or not there will be a way to earn equivalent gear in WvW, at present we will see 2 slots brought in…

give them time and calm down

Only Power+Prescision+Magic Find stats for new gear > WWW ok

Wvw has been unbalance from the get go. Not sure where all this bu tthurt is coming from.

Is a level 1 in wvw on the same playing field as a lvl 80? No.

The problem I have is that if you hate dungeons (because they are lame) then you can’t get the best gear. I am shocked that any true WvW or “Open World” player wouldnt find this gamebreaking. To me it is close to it. I dunno if I will run the dungeon. If it is once and I get the gear I might. If its a 5% drop rate I will probably quit the game unless I can buy the ascended item on the TP or in the Gem store.

I’ll stick to the assumption I made at the beginning of the thread. This armor will only be useful in the specific dungeon it has been tailored to. With the exception of the infusion slot, Exotic vs Ascended will be mostly indistinguishable stat wise, offering literately 0 benefit 1v1 or 50v50. This new slot will offer Agony resistance, and nothing more.

If people honestly believe that getting this new gear could potentially increase stats to a point where a 1v1 fight could have a different outcome, then you’re simply kidding yourself. From what I can tell, the difference between Exotics and Ascended is smaller than Exotics and Rares, which is negligible. Anet would not be so ignorant as to drop a ball that big.

As of the 15th, only the ring and the back piece will be available. When they release the “next tier”, it’ll be another piece of the Ascended tier, but an earring, or a glove, or a chest piece, or some combination of pieces.

It’s a slow, negligible creep. Anet has always liked the PvP, and they will not screw it over.

Edit:

Re-Edit:

Even if Ascended has base stats equal to Exotic plus Gem, it still brings us to the same decision we have now. Do we want orbs + 5 or so points, or do we want runes?

Gisei.5749:

I’ll stick to the assumption I made at the beginning of the thread. This armor will only be useful in the specific dungeon it has been tailored to. With the exception of the infusion slot, Exotic vs Ascended will be mostly indistinguishable stat wise, offering literately 0 benefit 1v1 or 50v50. This new slot will offer Agony resistance, and nothing more.

If people honestly believe that getting this new gear could potentially increase stats to a point where a 1v1 fight could have a different outcome, then you’re simply kidding yourself. From what I can tell, the difference between Exotics and Ascended is smaller than Exotics and Rares, which is negligible. Anet would not be so ignorant as to drop a ball that big.

As of the 15th, only the ring and the back piece will be available. When they release the “next tier”, it’ll be another piece of the Ascended tier, but an earring, or a glove, or a chest piece, or some combination of pieces.

It’s a slow, negligible creep. Anet has always liked the PvP, and they will not screw it over.

Edit: The Ascended Armor will not have stats equivalent to Exotic Armor plus a gem. It’ll only have stats slightly, 2-5 points, better than Exotic base stats. The difference is that the Exotic will allow for a gem or a sigil, while the Ascended will only allow for Agony Resistance.

I imagine that Anet will have the Ascended Armor buffed a bit so it can be on par with Exotics though.

just on your edit, the ascended item is +2-5 points better across the stats in comparison to exotic with an orb already slotted. so it will be 2-5 ish points/% better but as you say allow for the pve infusion slot.

I’m honestly not fussed but lets get the numbers right before people get misled.

Praktik.9735:

Only Power+Prescision+Magic Find stats for new gear > WWW ok

What makes you think the other stat options lik berserker won’t become available as ascended gear? That explorer ring was just an example.

Kyus.3812:

just on your edit, the ascended item is +2-5 points better across the stats in comparison to exotic with an orb already slotted. so it will be 2-5 ish points/% better but as you say allow for the pve infusion slot.

I’m honestly not fussed but lets get the numbers right before people get misled.

Ah yeah, I reconsidered that edit. Currently, after obtaining Exotics, we are left with the decision to get Orbs or Runes. After the update, the decision will only slightly change. Orbs + 5ish points, or Runes.

So does anything change?

Thrumdi.9216:

An official blog post I left two previous Realm vs Realm games when gear grinds necessary for PvP were introduced. I was hoping it wouldn’t happen to GW2, but I guess it’s the genre. They can’t avoid it. Though we’ll have to wait and see how bad it is.

If it is truly bad, this will probably be my last MMO.

EDIT: Actually, the blog says Ascended Rings come from the dungeon, back pieces from the Mystic Forge. Looks WvW’ers will have to grind dungeons.

So frustrated to hear about this.

I feel the same way. The MMO genre has been ruined by gear treadmills.

Sifu.6527:

Casia.4281:

Svarty.8019:

Sifu.6527:

How will a few extra stats impact Zerg vs Zerg?

Frankly, this shows a lack of appreciation for the finer points of WvW.

Same lack of understanding that defined how op the orbs where.

What finer points in Wvw are you talking about? 1v1 and roaming in a small group? Sorry but class/traits are more important in those situations. Stats is just the icing on the cake.

Strategy is what I am talking about. It seems obvious that you’ve had a frustrating experience in WvW.

I will be severely disappointed if attaining maximum stats requires pve beyond the current level. One of the biggest draws to this game for me was the fact that you could progress your character but were not required to because there was no strategic advantage in doing so.

Character progression should involve cosmetics, titles, emotes, non-combat pets, etc. Don’t drag me into a dungeon when I’d rather be pvping.

I have left other games that strong armed you into doing PVE in order to be on level footing in PVP. And with this path, indeed slippery slope, Anet will risk losing me as well, and I’m sure I’m not the only one.

This one-track style progression is antithetical to what Anet claimed as a philosophy for making GW2, which is that you could reach the gear plateau in any game mode that you preferred or desired to play in.

If it turns out to be our worst fears and a requirement to min max for wvwvw and require you to do PVE, well then there is only one solution.. As a conglomerate of wvwvw players, lets just refuse any and all gem purchases till it is fixed or removed. Once they have to explain to the execs/share holders why their income was lower for that quarter, I bet stuff will get changed High-speed

These new items will not end up a trivial difference either. As eventually there will be entire sets according to the design intent. +6 to +9 stats per item (since the last of the three stats is the dominant high stat it could be more than +2, we can’t tell based on that its MF) with an entire set you could easily be looking at over 50 points of stat difference, more than a one orb advantage.

Even having one plus one orb in WvW made me feel I could run around alone and defeat 90%+ 1v1 engagements. Let alone larger battles where entire sides would have this advantage discouraging opponents from even coming out or sticking in there to try and make a comeback. Only instead of an advantage based on something you could rectify (capturing an orb back) now its based on who is willing to endure dungeon grinds. And spend time somewhere you may have no desire to be, while getting less time to be in WvW, that you do enjoy.

There are a lot of people saying this gear will only be more useful than exotics in dungeons (if you for some reason don’t consider better stats a WvW advantage) because of the anti-agony infusions mentioned. Those would be “defensive” infusions.

The problem? The article mentions “offensive” and versatile “omni” infusions. Offensive infusions likely have nothing to do with agony and will grant an advantage to other PvE elements of the game, and WvW is PvP with PvE rules.

“There are multiple types of Infusions and Infusion slots. In November, we’ll introduce Offensive, Defensive, and Omni Infusions of Fine rarity from new Mystic Forge recipes. Infusion upgrade types must be paired with their like slot, with the exception of the rare and versatile Omni Infusions which can be slotted into any type of Infusion slot.”

if Anet launch this without upgraded WvW gear i will uninstall the game.
I have been grinding dungeons in WoW for almsot 8 years and will not do another dungeon with a carrot on a stick design.

This is WoW all over again where dungeon crawlers get the best gear and own face and the real pvp’s get smashed to oblivion if they refuse to do PvE.

I realy want a response from Anet about this matter.

After reading the post all I can say is wow Anet. I will be returning to SC2 until Anet can decide if they want to continue the legacy of GW1, or make a game to compete directly with WoW. Raising the level cap to 80 and making exotic gear much more difficult to obtain than lvl 20 gear from GW1 were already huge steps away from what made GW1 a good game, but after this it doesn’t look like they are done yet. And as Linsey Murdock says “This is just the beginning.”

Phara Miu.2816:

if Anet launch this without upgraded WvW gear i will uninstall the game.

They cannot leave WvW with worst gear than PvE, has no sense.

I think the blog post is just confusing and incomplete, it fails to explain the system because says nothing about WvW and sPvP.