Guild Wars 2

I know the developers are probably proud of this skill, but it is almost worse than stealth in its cheesiness.

Totally taking away two weapons bars of skills, your heal, utilities and elites for 10 seconds goes far beyond any other sort of crowd control in the game. It cannot be cleared, only dodged or blocked initially. In a WvW environment it can be almost impossible to see it coming.

Either make it clearable by stability, condition removal etc., keep the original skill bars, or remove it from the game.

Otherwise, it’s essentially an “I Win” button.

Oh gosh, 1 person out of 50 is now worthless for 10 secs.

Yes, Moa in general probably needs to be hit, but complaining about it in WvWvW is almost laughable.

What’s next? Killshot?

More tuna please.

Just make it only usable on thieves.

More seriously, it has a long cast time – the smaller the fight, the more likely you are to see it coming and counter it. In a large fight, you can back off and wait for it to expire without much difficulty.

So wait, a Thief can appear and instantly strike me dead like God himself, then be ready to do it again to someone else within seconds, but you want them to take a 10 second inconvenience on a three minute timer out of the game.

That’s using your head.

Thrumdi.9216:

I know the developers are probably proud of this skill, but it is almost worse than stealth in its cheesiness.

Totally taking away two weapons bars of skills, your heal, utilities and elites for 10 seconds goes far beyond any other sort of crowd control in the game. It cannot be cleared, only dodged or blocked initially. In a WvW environment it can be almost impossible to see it coming.

Either make it clearable by stability, condition removal etc., keep the original skill bars, or remove it from the game.

Otherwise, it’s essentially an “I Win” button.

It’s only a iwin button for 1v1 scenario, and if it can be easily cleared with something like condition removal/stun breaker/stability it’s not worthy of being an elite skill. I personally hate this elite, and want it replaced with some kind of AoE elite skill.

Bones.5762:

Thrumdi.9216:

I know the developers are probably proud of this skill, but it is almost worse than stealth in its cheesiness.

Totally taking away two weapons bars of skills, your heal, utilities and elites for 10 seconds goes far beyond any other sort of crowd control in the game. It cannot be cleared, only dodged or blocked initially. In a WvW environment it can be almost impossible to see it coming.

Either make it clearable by stability, condition removal etc., keep the original skill bars, or remove it from the game.

Otherwise, it’s essentially an “I Win” button.

It’s only a iwin button for 1v1 scenario, and if it can be easily cleared with something like condition removal/stun breaker/stability it’s not worthy of being an elite skill. I personally hate this elite, and want it replaced with some kind of AoE elite skill.

Like .. time warp? :P

You should actually be happy if an enemy mesmer uses moa on you or a group member. An enemy group backed up with a Time Warp is so deadly it’s ridiculous, we constantly wipe >5 times our numbers as a 5man by dropping a well placed TW onto a zerg.

We laugh pretty hard on vent everytime we see a moa. 10s of 1 useless enemy or 10s of your group dpsing like bosses, it’s a no brainer.

Bones.5762:

Thrumdi.9216:

I know the developers are probably proud of this skill, but it is almost worse than stealth in its cheesiness.

Totally taking away two weapons bars of skills, your heal, utilities and elites for 10 seconds goes far beyond any other sort of crowd control in the game. It cannot be cleared, only dodged or blocked initially. In a WvW environment it can be almost impossible to see it coming.

Either make it clearable by stability, condition removal etc., keep the original skill bars, or remove it from the game.

Otherwise, it’s essentially an “I Win” button.

It’s only a iwin button for 1v1 scenario, and if it can be easily cleared with something like condition removal/stun breaker/stability it’s not worthy of being an elite skill. I personally hate this elite, and want it replaced with some kind of AoE elite skill.

I’ve been ’moa’d’. ALL your skills get replaced. You cannot heal. You cannot stun break.

2v2 Mesmers. Mesmers have so many clones and phantasms that you have to concentrate on avoiding and killing before finding the real mesmer that can use stealth and rendering issues to mask his or her cast. You can never tell when you’re about to be moa’d.

Why not nerf it? They’ve nerfed everything else that a mesmer has, can’t believe they missed that one.

Golem.7845:

So called tricky classes are always gonna be op, just get rid of them. Idk why we can’t just have rock ‘em sock ’em robots online. Get your kitten together Anet or I’ll quit.

Mesmer and Assasin weren’t OP in Guild Wars 1. In fact it was really awesome the way that they each completely countered one another. If a bad Mesmer met a good Assassin the assissin would explode the mesmer in 3 second flat, and vice versa. But more often than not it resulted in a really fun game of cat and mouse between two relatively equally skilled players.

As a part time mesmer, I only use the moa transformation in sPvP, where 2vs2 and 1vs1 are more common. In WvWvW it hardly has any impact on a battle.
Still, I’m always against mechanics that change player bars or remove character control from a player in PvP, so I would approve if the skill was replaced with something else.

Fine as it is!

@ a WvW stand of view – Worthless (better to use Time Warp or even Mass Invisibility than that)
@ sPvP – Useful, but only on few situations!

Bones.5762:

Thrumdi.9216:

I know the developers are probably proud of this skill, but it is almost worse than stealth in its cheesiness.

Totally taking away two weapons bars of skills, your heal, utilities and elites for 10 seconds goes far beyond any other sort of crowd control in the game. It cannot be cleared, only dodged or blocked initially. In a WvW environment it can be almost impossible to see it coming.

Either make it clearable by stability, condition removal etc., keep the original skill bars, or remove it from the game.

Otherwise, it’s essentially an “I Win” button.

It’s only a iwin button for 1v1 scenario, and if it can be easily cleared with something like condition removal/stun breaker/stability it’s not worthy of being an elite skill. I personally hate this elite, and want it replaced with some kind of AoE elite skill.

two things

first: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Basilisk_Venom

second, you lose all of your utility skills, so you can’t clear it yourself. meaning, in the situations it would be useful, it’s the full 10 seconds, though the target is probably dead before that.

i’m not really arguing for or against changing moa. i just like people to have their facts straight.

Since it’s so worthless they might aswell take it out then. It’s interesting when people defend useless abilities.

It should break on damage or atleast a certain amount of damage.

You have obviously not tried using Moa after yesterdays nerf. Yes the skill has been nerfed. No chance I would use it now except underwater for fun.

While a Thief can use Dagger Storm to instakill you in few sec before he even renders, a Mesmer Moa turns the target into Moa bird that does a LOT of damage. You don’t even need to run away as Moa after yesterdays patch. Just charge the mesmer and kill him. You’ll be stronger than a Ranger with ranger skills!

As a mesmer I don’t know what everyone is complaining about. Almost no one used this skill in WvW. In zerg battles it’s useless. Outside of zerg battles it fails often due to block dodge whatever. And when it works it’s no kill guarantee. I’ve been killed by Moa maybe once in the entire game. Don’t make me count how often I’ve been killed by stuff such as Dagger Storm and what not.

PS: Oh and you can still Dodge while in Moa form. That’s 2-sec less you’re defenseless!

This is what mesmer is all about confusing and draining energy from his enemies if you think mesmer here is bad you would hate it on gw1 it was all about shutdown here its like a combo of elementalist and ritualist.

Actually, try fighting back in Moa/Tuna form.
They changed the skills and you can now still fight back when transformed.
Glass Cannons can sometimes find their damage increased.

Sam Pan.3651:

Golem.7845:

So called tricky classes are always gonna be op, just get rid of them. Idk why we can’t just have rock ‘em sock ’em robots online. Get your kitten together Anet or I’ll quit.

Mesmer and Assasin weren’t OP in Guild Wars 1. In fact it was really awesome the way that they each completely countered one another. If a bad Mesmer met a good Assassin the assissin would explode the mesmer in 3 second flat, and vice versa. But more often than not it resulted in a really fun game of cat and mouse between two relatively equally skilled players.

I remember that, Assassins used that enchantment that when expired would teleport them back to their starting place, removing that was always good for a laugh :-)

Thieves and Mesmers are still pretty closely matched often, if a mesmer survives the first hit the thief is in for a nice game of find-the-mesmer.

I only wish the illusions copy your emotes, would be even more funny.

As for the Moa: its technically a 10 second CC, I seldom use it because there are other elites that are more usefull, but 10 second CC is a bit long, I wouldnt mind seeing that changed.

I think its funny. wish it would turn you into a baby quaggan underwater though.

Erebus Delirium.4892:

So wait, a Thief can appear and instantly strike me dead like God himself, then be ready to do it again to someone else within seconds, but you want them to take a 10 second inconvenience on a three minute timer out of the game.

That’s using your head.

Lol’ed here too kittening funny mate.

The only time I’ve been moa’d in wvw I managed to get off a strategic peck and down the mesmer.

its a 1v1 skill if they want to bring it sure but 1 person doesn’t decide wvw moa/tuna < Group Utility

lets remove mesmer alltogether, cuz they might kill you.
This patch is totally stupid.

Pets are not persistant, they are spells!

Ever seen a elementalist fail to cast his fire storm because of line of sight or because someone put a blind on him?

I demand this gets changed!!

or mesmers will be useless in wvw, its enough that you have to work twice as hard in

pve, now they get nerfed for pvp too? whats left,
why work harder when you get same result while being half afk on aother class.

I know this because i have 2 other 80s

Ianervan.3415:

While a Thief can use Dagger Storm to instakill you in few sec before he even renders
!

I would love to see this instant kill dagger storm. Maybe if i look in the enchanted forest i will find it?

Etna.1634:

Since it’s so worthless they might aswell take it out then. It’s interesting when people defend useless abilities.

It should break on damage or atleast a certain amount of damage.

Wouldn’t mind if they removed it and gave the class some AOE so it could at least do something in WvW other than port people around.

Let’s be perfectly clear about something, Moa is not an “I Win” button for any mesmer, or his teammates but it is definitely a “you lose” button for anyone that thinks this game should be balanced around 1v1. If that’s the case you’re missing the point and doin it wrong.

Having been Moa’d myself I have to call it a “minor inconvenience” button more than anything else.

I figured that would be the perfect nerf, make the moa skills worth something.

Nice job!!!

Never used it on my mesmer anyway, but when I get moa’ed I always tried to attack lol!

Moa is the best single target CC in the game, anyone that treats it as a 1v1 skill or whatever, is missing out, imo. Not saying it needs nerfing, but it certainly isnt a waste of a skill.

The buffed those being MOA’d and whikel I haven’t tested it out myself, apparently 1.5k and 3k crits from those abilities have happened. Some Mesmer’s are running away from their own MOA on fear of being pecked to death. Elite Skill with an dodge-able/avoidable cast time on a 3 min cooldown is now laughable.

Niim.9260:

Moa is the best single target CC in the game, anyone that treats it as a 1v1 skill or whatever, is missing out, imo. Not saying it needs nerfing, but it certainly isnt a waste of a skill.

Its the best single target CC thats why it needs a nerf. As this skill is insta win on points in sPvP. As some points are mostly 1 v 1, like in the new map.

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

Its the best single target CC thats why it needs a nerf. As this skill is insta win on points in sPvP. As some points are mostly 1 v 1, like in the new map.

This is WvW subforum. sPvP has it’s own balance. If you want to discuss sPvP just switch to sPvP subforum. In WvW, Moa is a weak skill that almost no mesmer uses. End of story.

Lol, I don’t think I’ve ever seen any mesmer use it in WvW. Any mesmer worth their salt is using either Time Warp or Mass Invisibility.

Ianervan.3415:

While a Thief can use Dagger Storm to instakill you in few sec before he even renders
!

Are you an SB Ranger? Dagger Storm is more a reflect skill then anything. The projectiles are nothing special.

If you’re running on your own and you get turned into a moa and you “don’t” run away, then you deserve to die. Mesmers aren’t the best at chasing down their targets.

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

Niim.9260:

Moa is the best single target CC in the game, anyone that treats it as a 1v1 skill or whatever, is missing out, imo. Not saying it needs nerfing, but it certainly isnt a waste of a skill.

Its the best single target CC thats why it needs a nerf. As this skill is insta win on points in sPvP. As some points are mostly 1 v 1, like in the new map.

Well it better be the best CC in the kitten game considering it’s an elite skill, but seeing as people just see it as an awful skill it’s always funny. I dont like it and want it replaced with aoe elite, and im talking about aoe dmg skills.

It’s the only CC skill left in the game that cannot be escaped using a stun breaker. That’s what makes it imbalanced compared to other CC skills. Fix that, and it’s fine.

They changed Basilisk Venom to be affected by stun breakers, even though it was only really useful in 1v1’s (just like people are saying about Moa).

It’s not like you’re stunned for 10 seconds. You can use skills, dodge, run away.

And you still didn’t tell us – when did you die in WvW to this skill? I’m really curious, hands up how many times did all you people reading this die under Moa in last 30 days of gameplay?

Then hands up how many people here died to <insert random non-elite dmg skill>.

It needs to be enhanced to change all stealthed characters within 1600 yards of the mesmer in addition to the target. And it should work on the target even if they go into stealth while casting.

When in doubt Nerf Mesmers More!! Cheesy players anyway.

But BUT, Moa Morph is GAMEBREAKING….because its a mesmer skill! Logic!

/sarcasm

Ianervan.3415:

It’s not like you’re stunned for 10 seconds. You can use skills, dodge, run away.

1) Moa is 10 seconds, Basilisk Venom is 1.5 – 3 seconds (traited).

2) Moa cannot be removed. Basilisk venom breaks on any stun breaker.

3) Yes you have skills you can use while Moa’d. 5 shiny new skills (and 0 utility skills) that I have no clue as to what they do. I have to go to the wiki to memorize them just for the 0.1% of game play when I’m in Moa form..? By the time someone uses it on you, you’ve forgotten what they are and what they do. Then by the time you mouse over them to read them, you’re dead. You’re better off running away (which leads to #4).

4) You can run. Unless someone puts one of the countless forms of CC on you. And oops, you don’t have any utility skills available to remove it.

5) You can dodge. Twice, and only on the off-chance you didn’t dodge while fighting before being Moa’d. But who uses dodges during combat anyway.. right?

So yes, everyone tries to turn around and run away while dodging. But in reality, all you see is a big red message saying “Not Enough Energy” while you’re rooted/stunned/chilled/knocked down/etc, and then you die while looking like some stupid imitation of Big Bird.

To me the big question is can you finish someone in a downed state as a moa? Because I sooooo want to.

MOA, the elite skill on a 3 minute CD that has a long cast and can be avoided by dodge (probably block and blind too) is overpowered? Really? It was just nerfed (or buffed) depending if you are the Mesmer or the MOA bird now.

You have new abilities now as a MOA bird:

1) Claw: Scratch your foe.
2) Kick: Kick your foe.
3) Peck: First hit does a lot of damage, then 3 hits for about 30% of the initial damage each.
4) Screech: AoE damage x 3 + 3 stacks Confusion for about 3 sec
5) Flee: Super speed dash in the direction you’re facing.

You might even kill the Mesmer by using them. Ability 5 makes it even easier to get away.

An easy way to try them out is to fight the Mesmer NPC in the Mists, he usually casts it once per fight.

In WvW, you don’t see too many Mesmers using MOA when both Time Warp and Mass Invisibility are both better in almost every circumstance.

Yea the new Moa#5 along with 2x evades and LoSing.. really not a big deal and a counter to stealthspam thieves as well.

Adein.2031:

Ianervan.3415:

It’s not like you’re stunned for 10 seconds. You can use skills, dodge, run away.

1) Moa is 10 seconds, Basilisk Venom is 1.5 – 3 seconds (traited).

2) Moa cannot be removed. Basilisk venom breaks on any stun breaker.

3) Yes you have skills you can use while Moa’d. 5 shiny new skills (and 0 utility skills) that I have no clue as to what they do. I have to go to the wiki to memorize them just for the 0.1% of game play when I’m in Moa form..? By the time someone uses it on you, you’ve forgotten what they are and what they do. Then by the time you mouse over them to read them, you’re dead. You’re better off running away (which leads to #4).

4) You can run. Unless someone puts one of the countless forms of CC on you. And oops, you don’t have any utility skills available to remove it.

5) You can dodge. Twice, and only on the off-chance you didn’t dodge while fighting before being Moa’d. But who uses dodges during combat anyway.. right?

So yes, everyone tries to turn around and run away while dodging. But in reality, all you see is a big red message saying “Not Enough Energy” while you’re rooted/stunned/chilled/knocked down/etc, and then you die while looking like some stupid imitation of Big Bird.

Stop posting nonsense and tell me how many times you died in WvW in last 30 days because of Moa.

Why do you so conveniently forget to reply to that question?

Warrior, Hammer to stun. Swap to hundred blades. Lots of damage.

Mesmer, MOA for 10s…….. damage? nah.

No. MOA doesn’t need to be removed. nor does it break the game. If your staying in combat while MOA then your hurting yoruself. Also keep in mind that’s 1 class that can do this. It’s also the only class that has the lowest output of damage.

Let it go. And please move this to sPvP. I tried it WvW… it’s near worthless.

Fix the thief’s 0.5 secs of being targeted and rendering issues, then I will be happy to give up this skill.

Also, it is very effective at constantly stealthing thieves preventing a group from capturing a supply camp. Of course, again, that is not always easy to do as you have to target the thief via tab-targeting AND within the 0.5 secs window when it is possible!

Supersun.4603:

Oh gosh, 1 person out of 50 is now worthless for 10 secs.

Yes, Moa in general probably needs to be hit, but complaining about it in WvWvW is almost laughable.

What’s next? Killshot?

I was hit by a 11984 damage killshot in EB. I wear full power/toughness/vitality exotic gear.

Times killed by moa? 8 today at least. There is a guild on the opposing server in our matchup whose mesmers all seem to use moa.

It’s insanely frustrating to hit Stability/Endure Pain and be instantly moaed.

Personally at this stage I’d just like to know why the PvP changed skills do not also apply to WvW?