Guild Wars 2

I was standing in a camp the other night right after a cap and something hit someone standing beside me.. All the sudden, his HP went from full to downstate with a ton of condi on him. I ran over to rez him and was also instantly downed.. the next person came in to rez us… instant down.

All we would see was one red circle.

It was a ghost perma stealth trap thief i was told.. He ended up killing 6 people because we simply had no defence against him. You cant kill what you cant see, target or even have an effect on.

Seriously anet… how are you supposed to fight someone you can never even get a target on?

BTW… dont say stealth traps to reveal him… dropped 5 of them.. he popped them all (in front of a camp full of guards that should also have revealed him) yet he never came out of stealth.

Any plans to fix this before the BLs are overrun with gank squads of ghost thiefs?

You guys sure you weren’t dropping supply traps instead. XD

Also should have blast light fields, it can save a life.

Bring cleanse to wvw, and leave the area. They aren’t worth the effort.
Did you drop more than one trap at a time?
If he ran over one he would have been revealed, simple as that.
Any chance he watched you drop one (easy to see), avoided it…then watched you drop another (first one would disappear)…and continued to laugh at you?

Ghost thief shouldn’t be a thing…but it’s usually easily ignored. Move on.

There’s no way to not be revealed if you trip a stealth trap, unless there’s a new bug nobody’s reported. So, yeah, maybe supply traps got dropped?

It’s a lame build though, that does need some sort of fix.

As it got buffed last balance patch the question if its intended would be a big fat YES.

And please stealth traps no counter to them, unless theyre blind and really kittenty.

If you spam skills every direction you might get lucky hit. Of course you need like 10 lucky hits to actually kill him.

Junkpile.7439:

If you spam skills every direction you might get lucky hit. Of course you need like 10 lucky hits to actually kill him.

For the most part, far more than 10 if he’s dire/TB.

If he downed that many that quickly , unless none of you traited for condition cleanses , it more then a little likely there was more then one. They seem to roam in packs now.

The needle trap has a 24 second cooldown . If he has one on his heal there likely two available tops. It possible he got lucky on an improv steal and reset his traps. It does nott appear that one was preset as you were there standing whn someone got hit.

To the rez thing watch for a big red circle. It more then a little likely that once the first downed he dropped caltrops. Any person downed that has some sort of port skill while downed should get out of there so as to effect a rez. If the downed person not able to do this and you see that circle you should stop the rez and hget out.

other tips. if the thief is setting traps you will see a small puff of smoke. Dodge through that area. Most will likely not set traps this way hover and just apply them directly.

Do not cluser if in a group as this means his trap can get more of you. They have a small area that they cover so generally he can only tag one a time.

Watch for a smoke field. Generally he will pull off to distance or run behind a nearby building and use black power to HS through to stealth stack. If there a number of you it should be easier to spot and one of you should be able to get to that field.

If in a group and one is tagged that one person should immediately get away from the area as quickly as possible so as to cleanse. The Ghost Thief likes to focus one player so as to overwhelm cleanses. If that player sticks in the area this easier to do. He can pull off, cleanse and come back. Ghost thief is not great at chasedowns.

One engineer in your group and it would be a dead ghost thief. Other classes that have reveal are Rev and DH and warrior and ranger can use taunt skills to pull him out.

To the disrupter traps not doing anything, that hard to imagine. I have not seen them not work.

Until there some sort of changes these are the things you have to look at doing and ultimately you just might be better off leaving the area.

So I equipped my long neglected thief today as ran about wvw as a trapper. It was quite fun! But not the camping lone players kind, though I did do that. I found disrupting back lines of zergs following the friendly zerg around was far more fun and effective.

I learned to trapper so I could counter it myself in future. My take home message is this. When trapped, I cleanse or heal, stun break if need be and jump on the small red circle that will appear. This is where the thief heartseeks to get stealth, if they hit you they come out, if they don’t they just missed quite a few seconds of stealth. If it was me, I would flee, because out of stealth, they are rather weak!

Really the most effective thing I found was weather the storm, stand in their circle or simply run away. If someone ran, I couldn’t keep my stealth up as well and after a steal or shadowstep I was really quite ineffective!

Bish.8627:

Really the most effective thing I found was weather the storm, stand in their circle or simply run away. If someone ran, I couldn’t keep my stealth up as well and after a steal or shadowstep I was really quite ineffective!

And this is a large part of the problem with the build right here. There shouldn’t be a build where the best options are just to “weather the storm” against it or run away period. It wouldn’t matter if this was on engi, or rev, or mesmer, or war. There shouldn’t be a build where this is the best option. Every build should have actual counterplay, not just “pop your cleanses and hope he loses interest”

It’s kind of hard to stand in their circle if you don’t have any kind of leap of teleport skills.

Bish.8627:

If someone ran, I couldn’t keep my stealth up as well and after a steal or shadowstep I was really quite ineffective!

Sounds like to me that infiltrator’s arrow needs a buff to 1200 range and maybe reduction in initiative.

Junkpile.7439:

It’s kind of hard to stand in their circle if you don’t have any kind of leap of teleport skills.

Well there are other options. Necro marks on that spot can help, putrid to give those conditions to him, and Reapers mark work good all being cast at range.

The HS , black powder comb is not an evade so AOE that persist things can work.

Glue shot and muddy terrain can also help. What you want to do is see that powder field and act as quickly as possible to inhibit the ability to stack stealth. He generally wants to get 3 or 4 iterations and if you can cut that in half with immobs and the like he less effective.

I think too many , on locating the area where the thief stacks, want to inflict damage rather then using some form of CC. Ghost thief is usually core meaning no Unhindered Combat , little in the way of stun breaks, no way to break IMMOB that does not affect their build. SE only removes DAMAGING conditions so that has to be used against him.

The damage they can deal with. They still stack the stealth as you damage them and have rejuv and resilience helping them survive such till that stealth stacked PLUS that heavier armor.

If one watches videos of these guys working they tend to stack stealth out of the enemies LOS. If a player or group can identify where that Black powder field is (easier said then done in many cases) they can act on it without having to close that range.

Choppy.4183:

There’s no way to not be revealed if you trip a stealth trap, unless there’s a new bug nobody’s reported. So, yeah, maybe supply traps got dropped?

It’s a lame build though, that does need some sort of fix.

Nah they were stealth traps… i dropped one.. he tripped it didnt get revealed… so i dropped another.. same thing.

I thought guards would also reveal him.. didnt happen either.

so… exploit or hack?

trueanimus.4085:

Choppy.4183:

There’s no way to not be revealed if you trip a stealth trap, unless there’s a new bug nobody’s reported. So, yeah, maybe supply traps got dropped?

It’s a lame build though, that does need some sort of fix.

Nah they were stealth traps… i dropped one.. he tripped it didnt get revealed… so i dropped another.. same thing.

I thought guards would also reveal him.. didnt happen either.

so… exploit or hack?

IF they truly were stealth traps then the guy was hacking and was under the map killing you as there is no way to trigger a stealth disruptor without getting revealed as far as I know.

Ravere.8415:

Bring cleanse to wvw, and leave the area. They aren’t worth the effort.
Did you drop more than one trap at a time?
If he ran over one he would have been revealed, simple as that.
Any chance he watched you drop one (easy to see), avoided it…then watched you drop another (first one would disappear)…and continued to laugh at you?

Ghost thief shouldn’t be a thing…but it’s usually easily ignored. Move on.

Im ranger with healing spring and survival traited.. cleanses condis per tick.. we also had a few guards clearing condis also.. nothing worked. we would clear.. then poof.. full line of condi on us… down… dead.

There was only 1 that we saw.. RUSH tag (im on borlis pass atm) and we couldnt even click on him or tab target long enough to right click and report… anything.. would only see him when he was 1500 yards away or more.. full stealth the entire time he was attacking us.. so no way to target and kill or even do anything.

I have noticed that a ton of zergs now on borlis pass now are getting eaten up by them.. running in packs of 5-6 just killing backline left and right on an engage. The only way to counter them is to keep moving and hope they dont pop the venom that roots you.. if you do.. your dead.

apharma.3741:

trueanimus.4085:

Choppy.4183:

There’s no way to not be revealed if you trip a stealth trap, unless there’s a new bug nobody’s reported. So, yeah, maybe supply traps got dropped?

It’s a lame build though, that does need some sort of fix.

Nah they were stealth traps… i dropped one.. he tripped it didnt get revealed… so i dropped another.. same thing.

I thought guards would also reveal him.. didnt happen either.

so… exploit or hack?

IF they truly were stealth traps then the guy was hacking and was under the map killing you as there is no way to trigger a stealth disruptor without getting revealed as far as I know.

Good to know.. ill try and report him if i can ever get a target on him long enough to right click and report.

babazhook.6805:

Junkpile.7439:

It’s kind of hard to stand in their circle if you don’t have any kind of leap of teleport skills.

Well there are other options. Necro marks on that spot can help, putrid to give those conditions to him, chillbains and Reapers mark work good all being cast at range.

Things like AOE chill can slow his ability to stack stealth. Given SE does not remove chill and the Ghost Thief likely traits HIS, they have no chill removal unless they throw in shadowstep , and the point of this is to inhibit stacking of stealth after the cast of Black powder.

The HS , black powder comb is not an evade so AOE that persist things can work.

Glue shot and muddy terrain can also help. What you want to do is see that powder field and act as quickly as possible to inhibit the ability to stack stealth. He generally wants to get 3 or 4 iterations and if you can cut that in half with immobs and the like he less effective.

I think too many , on locating the area where the thief stacks, want to inflict damage rather then using some form of CC. Ghost thief is usually core meaning no Unhindered Combat , little in the way of stun breaks, no way to break IMMOB that does not affect their build. SE only removes DAMAGING conditions so that has to be used against him.

The damage they can deal with. They still stack the stealth as you damage them and have rejuv and resilience helping them survive such till that stealth stacked PLUS that heavier armor.

If one watches videos of these guys working they tend to stack stealth out of the enemies LOS. If a player or group can identify where that Black powder field is (easier said then done in many cases) they can act on it without having to close that range.

we tried everything.. even when we were with the entire zerg, he was attacking and downing people while standing stacked in the zerg blob. At the time, we had marks, symbols down and be buffing etc.. and he would evade all that and pop someone… they would down and we would rez them.

he basically followed us (tork) around all night and tried to kill us (me especially and a few other backliners) for about 5 hours. At least with people around us we could rez and had enough damage mid to live.

btw.. i also heard someone saying that they could use a wall to stack stealth somehow.. dont know how that would work.. since i dont play thief

OriOri.8724:

Bish.8627:

Really the most effective thing I found was weather the storm, stand in their circle or simply run away. If someone ran, I couldn’t keep my stealth up as well and after a steal or shadowstep I was really quite ineffective!

And this is a large part of the problem with the build right here. There shouldn’t be a build where the best options are just to “weather the storm” against it or run away period. It wouldn’t matter if this was on engi, or rev, or mesmer, or war. There shouldn’t be a build where this is the best option. Every build should have actual counterplay, not just “pop your cleanses and hope he loses interest”

agreed… but there is no way to counter this at all unless your in a massive group .. cant kill what you cant even target or when you do get a target (aoe) etc on the ground it has no effect and doesnt break the stealth.

trueanimus.4085:

babazhook.6805:

Junkpile.7439:

It’s kind of hard to stand in their circle if you don’t have any kind of leap of teleport skills.

Well there are other options. Necro marks on that spot can help, putrid to give those conditions to him, chillbains and Reapers mark work good all being cast at range.

Things like AOE chill can slow his ability to stack stealth. Given SE does not remove chill and the Ghost Thief likely traits HIS, they have no chill removal unless they throw in shadowstep , and the point of this is to inhibit stacking of stealth after the cast of Black powder.

The HS , black powder comb is not an evade so AOE that persist things can work.

Glue shot and muddy terrain can also help. What you want to do is see that powder field and act as quickly as possible to inhibit the ability to stack stealth. He generally wants to get 3 or 4 iterations and if you can cut that in half with immobs and the like he less effective.

I think too many , on locating the area where the thief stacks, want to inflict damage rather then using some form of CC. Ghost thief is usually core meaning no Unhindered Combat , little in the way of stun breaks, no way to break IMMOB that does not affect their build. SE only removes DAMAGING conditions so that has to be used against him.

The damage they can deal with. They still stack the stealth as you damage them and have rejuv and resilience helping them survive such till that stealth stacked PLUS that heavier armor.

If one watches videos of these guys working they tend to stack stealth out of the enemies LOS. If a player or group can identify where that Black powder field is (easier said then done in many cases) they can act on it without having to close that range.

we tried everything.. even when we were with the entire zerg, he was attacking and downing people while standing stacked in the zerg blob. At the time, we had marks, symbols down and be buffing etc.. and he would evade all that and pop someone… they would down and we would rez them.

he basically followed us (tork) around all night and tried to kill us (me especially and a few other backliners) for about 5 hours. At least with people around us we could rez and had enough damage mid to live.

Understood but unless he was hacking I am talking about using those skills WHILE he stacking stealth in the Black powerfield. If you load them up after he can just see where they are and avoid or dodge through them. Use them when he locked to a location which is when he is stacking that stealth.

You mentioned you would see him at 1500. What he likely does is stack his stealth way out there then port in to your group with his steal. If you saw him at 1500 it hard to imagine it the under the map hack but then I do not know exactly how that hack works. (and yes this makes it harder to close and use the skills I mentioned to inhibit stacking but move 300 and drop a CC type on that spot and it might help more then waiting for him to come to you)

AOE’s and/or lucky/timed condi bursts. I play vanilla engi and I give them more than a run for their money. More often than not they either bail on me or I beat them (mind you they always come back cause they hate losing to someone who is willing to fight them)

trueanimus.4085:

btw.. i also heard someone saying that they could use a wall to stack stealth somehow.. dont know how that would work.. since i dont play thief

Hm, if they want to use a wall for stealth it’s either with CnD (cloak & dagger) or they use it as a crutch to help them get a few heartseekers into blackpowder (can also do this against any terrain which a lot of ghosts thief try to do out of line of sight, eg against cliff). L-shaped walls are the best for getting 4 heartseekers if you aren’t good at it yet – just have to time them properly or it jumps you the other direction.

trueanimus.4085:

btw.. i also heard someone saying that they could use a wall to stack stealth somehow.. dont know how that would work.. since i dont play thief

Do some research before you post like a moron. Stealth has a cap so they can’t stack it stupid high. They have reapply every few seconds.

I have watched you play and you are trash, you think that cripple strips stab for god sakes, why would/should anyone believe that this is anything other than you continuing to cry about a class you just can’t counter because you don’t know how their mechanics work.

Instead of taking to the forums to cry every time someone kills you saying it’s broken or hacks perhaps you should just learn to deal with the classes and builds. I kill ghost thieves regularly, they are a dumb build and a bad idea but they aren’t god like. Learn the game, you and people like you are the reason that we can’t have nice things and ANET just patches in worse and worse crap. Because you carebears can’t comprehend anything other than what you have always done.

trueanimus.4085:

btw.. i also heard someone saying that they could use a wall to stack stealth somehow.. dont know how that would work.. since i dont play thief

That worked a few years ago, but I’m fairly sure they patched it.

when you get condi on you you teleport ASAP and not stay still if he killed 6 of you then was more than one or your build was power build without any condi remove.
Stealth Traps and some skill from engi and reverant works to get out from invis….. thief dont have big condi damage if you remove them and you have nice build.
Afterwall i saw thief die more often than a necro or elementalist or mesmers wich are light class.

If it’s a solo ghost thief, that’s not overtly harsh if you have counter cleanse. It’s the pack of semi-coordinated havoc that is what is broken (or the 2-3 that follow invisible with other single/double defensive-like roamers since invisible rez too). The true issue is if the initial attack fails, no harm, no foul to the thief as you can reset over and over. This is absolutely crazy good when people are using siege out in the open (or just for impossible to stop siege disable).

And the ghost thief build is amazingly synergistic with others thanks to venom share being baseline (Spider Venom, Basilisk Venom). Immobilize comes from the double Needle Trap with one utility and another from heal trait. Easy to apply with timing Steal for insta teleport on target (which also adds stacks of additional Poison, Weaken, Vulnerability, Confusion (or Daze) and adds more Stealth to the thief too).

That’s why you get lit up with condis all at once as the standard attack is to start casting Needle Trap followed by Steal (1200 range) and Geomancy sigil swap.

EDIT: For education, standard build with variables being Caltrops trait replaced with TotC, Bewildering Ambush trait replaced with SoH, Non-Needle Trap utility replaced with Shadow Step (useful if you are being hunted, tailing or zerging), Hide in Shadows replaced by Withdraw, some mix of Trailblazer as desired and carry a Shortbow for general travel (zerging Poison field on 4).

Venoms only synergize with visible enemies because only attacks that reveal trigger venom applications. A ghost thief gives up utility to have a venom and if running in a havoc group should honestly be running a different build to actually help the group.

Permastealth isn’t good for mobility which havoc needs to stay effective and alive.

Artaz.3819:

If it’s a solo ghost thief, that’s not overtly harsh if you have counter cleanse. It’s the pack of semi-coordinated havoc that is what is broken (or the 2-3 that follow invisible with other single/double defensive-like roamers since invisible rez too). The true issue is if the initial attack fails, no harm, no foul to the thief as you can reset over and over. This is absolutely crazy good when people are using siege out in the open (or just for impossible to stop siege disable).

And the ghost thief build is amazingly synergistic with others thanks to venom share being baseline (Spider Venom, Basilisk Venom). Immobilize comes from the double Needle Trap with one utility and another from heal trait. Easy to apply with timing Steal for insta teleport on target (which also adds stacks of additional Poison, Weaken, Confusion (or Daze) and adds more Stealth to the thief too).

That’s why you get lit up with condis all at once as the standard attack is to start casting Needle Trap followed by Steal (1200 range).

That moment when someone doesn’t realize Venoms/Venomshare do absolutely nothing for Ghost Thief, hint Venoms don’t Proc on Needle Traps, Caltrops, Steal or anything else the Ghost Thief uses.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Artaz.3819:

If it’s a solo ghost thief, that’s not overtly harsh if you have counter cleanse. It’s the pack of semi-coordinated havoc that is what is broken (or the 2-3 that follow invisible with other single/double defensive-like roamers since invisible rez too). The true issue is if the initial attack fails, no harm, no foul to the thief as you can reset over and over. This is absolutely crazy good when people are using siege out in the open (or just for impossible to stop siege disable).

And the ghost thief build is amazingly synergistic with others thanks to venom share being baseline (Spider Venom, Basilisk Venom). Immobilize comes from the double Needle Trap with one utility and another from heal trait. Easy to apply with timing Steal for insta teleport on target (which also adds stacks of additional Poison, Weaken, Confusion (or Daze) and adds more Stealth to the thief too).

That’s why you get lit up with condis all at once as the standard attack is to start casting Needle Trap followed by Steal (1200 range).

That moment when someone doesn’t realize Venoms/Venomshare do absolutely nothing for Ghost Thief, hint Venoms don’t Proc on Needle Traps, Caltrops, Steal or anything else the Ghost Thief uses.

Thankfully, NPC Guards, that crew of dredge/ogres/frogs, that lonely yak with two pitiful guards, fellow visible players that you are running along with (because everyone solo roams, right?), the nerf-me-now Turrets from Elite (or Thief Guild) and general pets works all too well. It’s pretty hilarious for killing other roamers that are going after a sentry or your own supply camp guards too.

saerni.2584:

Venoms only synergize with visible enemies because only attacks that reveal trigger venom applications. A ghost thief gives up utility to have a venom and if running in a havoc group should honestly be running a different build to actually help the group.

Permastealth isn’t good for mobility which havoc needs to stay effective and alive.

One person uses Black Powder in front and all Leap finisher through (and keep going at 50% (Fleet Shadow) speed in perma stealth (no after cast on Black Powder allows this for leader too). You do drop traps, use Steal and “heal” stealth to keep Stealth always up while fully mobile between points. If you are lazy, you just use Shortbow 5. If someone goes down, you Merciful Ambush (just tap).

It’s not all that hard to watch your Stealth boon icon and eventually it becomes second nature anyway. The harder part is keeping stealth when you are actually hitting a target.

And I’d argue it is actually more mobile than a lot of roaming builds out there simply because you don’t have to check your back or look around corners and don’t have to avoid guard agro radius or sentries/watch towers. Give it a try and enjoy the broken stupid and boring (exotic gear works fine). You do need to be able to 5/2 on dagger/pistol often so lag monster can kill you.

Artaz.3819:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Artaz.3819:

If it’s a solo ghost thief, that’s not overtly harsh if you have counter cleanse. It’s the pack of semi-coordinated havoc that is what is broken (or the 2-3 that follow invisible with other single/double defensive-like roamers since invisible rez too). The true issue is if the initial attack fails, no harm, no foul to the thief as you can reset over and over. This is absolutely crazy good when people are using siege out in the open (or just for impossible to stop siege disable).

And the ghost thief build is amazingly synergistic with others thanks to venom share being baseline (Spider Venom, Basilisk Venom). Immobilize comes from the double Needle Trap with one utility and another from heal trait. Easy to apply with timing Steal for insta teleport on target (which also adds stacks of additional Poison, Weaken, Confusion (or Daze) and adds more Stealth to the thief too).

That’s why you get lit up with condis all at once as the standard attack is to start casting Needle Trap followed by Steal (1200 range).

That moment when someone doesn’t realize Venoms/Venomshare do absolutely nothing for Ghost Thief, hint Venoms don’t Proc on Needle Traps, Caltrops, Steal or anything else the Ghost Thief uses.

Thankfully, NPC Guards, that crew of dredge/ogres/frogs, that lonely yak with two pitiful guards, fellow visible players that you are running along with (because everyone solo roams, right?), Turrets from Elite (or Thief Guild) and general pets works all too well. It’s pretty hilarious for killing other roamers that are going after a sentry or your own supply camp guards too.

And if you look at every Ghost Thief build they don’t run Venoms, they run Needle Trap, Blinding Powder and Shadowstep/Caltrop Utility, in the majority of all cases, since it is quite hard to maintain perma Stealth without Blinding Powder and they would lose damage if they don’t run the Needle trap, and your scenario you put out was all using Perma stealth Thieves no mention of any of those AI or Npcs. So you are basing your claims on being outnumbered by either players or Npcs and dying, funny how you claim a build to be OP and your claims come from being in an outnumbered situation.

Just add dmg to traps and traited steal,and its done,tadaaaa.Dudes respec back to condie pew pew thieves,and we all happy again

KaporHabakuk.6219:

Just add dmg to traps and traited steal,and its done,tadaaaa.Dudes respec back to condie pew pew thieves,and we all happy again

Would agree with damage on traps.

You have to actually trait to have stealth on steal – plus this is used by more builds than just ghost thief. Would not agree with this change.

My guess is you got hit by 2+ Ghost Thieves. A single one can stack up a decent amount of condi but 2+ can drop so much that players roll over dead before they know what hit them.

KaporHabakuk.6219:

Just add dmg to traps and traited steal,and its done,tadaaaa.Dudes respec back to condie pew pew thieves,and we all happy again

No, just make applying damaging conditions cause reveal. It fixes the problem of dealing damage without breaking stealth without just nerfing steal. As it is though, thieves can and should be able to steal into stealth as long as they don’t apply a damaging condition with it, but under your proposed solution you would remove the ability to do so.

OriOri.8724:

KaporHabakuk.6219:

Just add dmg to traps and traited steal,and its done,tadaaaa.Dudes respec back to condie pew pew thieves,and we all happy again

No, just make applying damaging conditions cause reveal. It fixes the problem of dealing damage without breaking stealth without just nerfing steal. As it is though, thieves can and should be able to steal into stealth as long as they don’t apply a damaging condition with it, but under your proposed solution you would remove the ability to do so.

A terrible solution all but making the DA line useless for a Power build and making hidden thief next to useless. One would kiss CnD precast>steal goodbye with any build using DA.

It doesn’t make DA useless, it would just make you reveal yourself when you steal if you are running DA.

OriOri.8724:

It doesn’t make DA useless, it would just make you reveal yourself when you steal if you are running DA.

Which is silly. Cnd loaded before steal has been a tactic since day one which sets up a backstab. D/D power already hard enough to play .Hidden thief is intended to HIDE you after a steal for a reason and it not just to reveal you if you take DA.

added to that in order to dvide damaging condtions for those others , physical damage componet would need to be added and this would make ghost thief more powerful.

It a bad idea .

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Artaz.3819:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Artaz.3819:

If it’s a solo ghost thief, that’s not overtly harsh if you have counter cleanse. It’s the pack of semi-coordinated havoc that is what is broken (or the 2-3 that follow invisible with other single/double defensive-like roamers since invisible rez too). The true issue is if the initial attack fails, no harm, no foul to the thief as you can reset over and over. This is absolutely crazy good when people are using siege out in the open (or just for impossible to stop siege disable).

And the ghost thief build is amazingly synergistic with others thanks to venom share being baseline (Spider Venom, Basilisk Venom). Immobilize comes from the double Needle Trap with one utility and another from heal trait. Easy to apply with timing Steal for insta teleport on target (which also adds stacks of additional Poison, Weaken, Confusion (or Daze) and adds more Stealth to the thief too).

That’s why you get lit up with condis all at once as the standard attack is to start casting Needle Trap followed by Steal (1200 range).

That moment when someone doesn’t realize Venoms/Venomshare do absolutely nothing for Ghost Thief, hint Venoms don’t Proc on Needle Traps, Caltrops, Steal or anything else the Ghost Thief uses.

Thankfully, NPC Guards, that crew of dredge/ogres/frogs, that lonely yak with two pitiful guards, fellow visible players that you are running along with (because everyone solo roams, right?), Turrets from Elite (or Thief Guild) and general pets works all too well. It’s pretty hilarious for killing other roamers that are going after a sentry or your own supply camp guards too.

And if you look at every Ghost Thief build they don’t run Venoms, they run Needle Trap, Blinding Powder and Shadowstep/Caltrop Utility, in the majority of all cases, since it is quite hard to maintain perma Stealth without Blinding Powder and they would lose damage if they don’t run the Needle trap, and your scenario you put out was all using Perma stealth Thieves no mention of any of those AI or Npcs. So you are basing your claims on being outnumbered by either players or Npcs and dying, funny how you claim a build to be OP and your claims come from being in an outnumbered situation.

I claim that it is overpowered because IT IS OP.

If you run this WvW Thief build, I don’t know how you think of it is a good build for the health of WvW. I’ve done it, abused it and had my fun FYI, I’m not the thread original poster so outnumbered has nothing to do with it – the original poster can’t even confirm there were multiple ghost thieves because you really can’t easily when you are targeted by teams. To summarize, ghost thief is virtually a no counter, zero opponent interaction (extremely unfair) PvP invisibility build. Do you remember pre-nerf mesmer PU?

Caltrops (utility) is the lower damage version of Poison Venom. Been there, done that 6+ months ago linky before there was even more buffs to the ghost thief build.

Avigrus.2871:

KaporHabakuk.6219:

Just add dmg to traps and traited steal,and its done,tadaaaa.Dudes respec back to condie pew pew thieves,and we all happy again

Would agree with damage on traps.

You have to actually trait to have stealth on steal – plus this is used by more builds than just ghost thief. Would not agree with this change.

Damage on traps would still allow Ghost thief. Not as potent a version but if we talking two or more working in concert the outcome the same. (ie 22 confusion and double caltrops as a condi burst and a pair working together )

babazhook.6805:

Avigrus.2871:

KaporHabakuk.6219:

Just add dmg to traps and traited steal,and its done,tadaaaa.Dudes respec back to condie pew pew thieves,and we all happy again

Would agree with damage on traps.

You have to actually trait to have stealth on steal – plus this is used by more builds than just ghost thief. Would not agree with this change.

Damage on traps would still allow Ghost thief. Not as potent a version but if we talking two or more working in concert the outcome the same. (ie 22 confusion and double caltrops as a condi burst and a pair working together )

2v1 should beat the 1 so good. Ghost thief is perma-stealth while doing damage (significant damage enough to actually kill things without becoming visible). That isn’t ghost thief if you do damage from stealth, become revealed for your opponent to react and then you may even re-enter stealth.

heyyyyyy speaking of ghost thief did yall see that slothasor solo

maybe anet will pay attention now that ghost thief has soloed a raid boss

insanemaniac.2456:

heyyyyyy speaking of ghost thief did yall see that slothasor solo

maybe anet will pay attention now that ghost thief has soloed a raid boss

Fixed a bug where poisoned ground in raid wing 2 doesn’t hit players in stealth.

thats too simple for anet, theyll take the long road!

babazhook.6805:

Damage on traps would still allow Ghost thief. Not as potent a version but if we talking two or more working in concert the outcome the same. (ie 22 confusion and double caltrops as a condi burst and a pair working together )

I would argue damage on traps is more potent due to unintended consequence. Namely Venoms would start working on traps and let me tell you that is an entirely new kind of condi evil. Certain attacks not procing damage on the thief is a good thing in some cases.

I know I drone on about this… the problem isn’t the attack it is the stealth. Fixes to the attack system could simply make things worse.

Straegen.2938:

babazhook.6805:

Damage on traps would still allow Ghost thief. Not as potent a version but if we talking two or more working in concert the outcome the same. (ie 22 confusion and double caltrops as a condi burst and a pair working together )

I would argue damage on traps is more potent due to unintended consequence. Namely Venoms would start working on traps and let me tell you that is an entirely new kind of condi evil. Certain attacks not procing damage on the thief is a good thing in some cases.

I know I drone on about this… the problem isn’t the attack it is the stealth. Fixes to the attack system could simply make things worse.

Yes , and I have already pointed this out to others who advocate adding a damage component to all applications of damaging condtions.

This would make STEAL into a monster and still allow Ghost thief. (4 extra damage procs per steal for venom adds).

Even if there was a short window where said thief “reveal;ed” that thief can easily avoid further damage until they can stack stealth again even as that condition bomb takes away on the victim.

babazhook.6805:

Straegen.2938:

babazhook.6805:

Damage on traps would still allow Ghost thief. Not as potent a version but if we talking two or more working in concert the outcome the same. (ie 22 confusion and double caltrops as a condi burst and a pair working together )

I would argue damage on traps is more potent due to unintended consequence. Namely Venoms would start working on traps and let me tell you that is an entirely new kind of condi evil. Certain attacks not procing damage on the thief is a good thing in some cases.

I know I drone on about this… the problem isn’t the attack it is the stealth. Fixes to the attack system could simply make things worse.

Yes , and I have already pointed this out to others who advocate adding a damage component to all applications of damaging condtions.

This would make STEAL into a monster and still allow Ghost thief. (4 extra damage procs per steal for venom adds).

Even if there was a short window where said thief “reveal;ed” that thief can easily avoid further damage until they can stack stealth again even as that condition bomb takes away on the victim.

People are advocating for applying damaging conditions to cause reveal, not to add physical damage to conditions. I don’t know where you got that notion from.

babazhook.6805:

Straegen.2938:

babazhook.6805:

Damage on traps would still allow Ghost thief. Not as potent a version but if we talking two or more working in concert the outcome the same. (ie 22 confusion and double caltrops as a condi burst and a pair working together )

I would argue damage on traps is more potent due to unintended consequence. Namely Venoms would start working on traps and let me tell you that is an entirely new kind of condi evil. Certain attacks not procing damage on the thief is a good thing in some cases.

I know I drone on about this… the problem isn’t the attack it is the stealth. Fixes to the attack system could simply make things worse.

Yes , and I have already pointed this out to others who advocate adding a damage component to all applications of damaging condtions.

This would make STEAL into a monster and still allow Ghost thief. (4 extra damage procs per steal for venom adds).

Even if there was a short window where said thief “reveal;ed” that thief can easily avoid further damage until they can stack stealth again even as that condition bomb takes away on the victim.

You could easily make venoms not affect trap utilities too…seems simple code to avoid and “pet” issues. I don’t know if I see that as a huge problem though even if they did add it though. Both types are utilities, trap (or the one trait heal) and venom so both take up precious utility slots.

Sure you could bomb with Venom Stack + Steal but you also could just as easily use insta venoms now, pre-cast an autoattack and steal before attack animation right now. in game That’s definitely an all in move that isn’t exactly broken.

EDIT: I think the confusion is people think the suggestion is that every tick of condition damage from the trap would cause reveal – this is not true. The more appropriate “fix” is to have the initial trigger of the trap cause direct damage (very low base damage) which causes reveal if in stealth and for the trap’s remaining ticks of condition damage as normal for the remainder. Since the first tick of direct damage causes reveal and subsequent condition damage ticks do not cause reveal, this is the desired effect to expose the thief from stealth but not prevent the thief from re-entering stealth for the duration of the condition damage for a variety of class balance reasons.

It is frustrating getting hit by a party of ghost thieves as an acro staff thief.

The encounter usually goes something like this:
Get hit with 6+ condis, I then shadow return and signet to remove 6. Its not enough to remove the posion which is ticking for 2k+. Its the only thing left on me. Escapist’s absolution does nothing because why would they attack after applying condis?

Running more condi clear could be done. I could run dash instead or instead of instant reflexes run pain response. <— That is probably what I will do. Instant reflexes is so good for getting stomps and defense but more condi clear every 16 seconds hilariously might be worth it.

could run withdraw and or trickster with it as well, but I would rather not. Not like any of this matters. The amount of forum and reddit posts really point in the direction of the trap build being shot down several pegs. time will tell. For now I’m going almost full marauder with crusader weapons and a few Valkyrie pieces for more vitality. I was barely dying before with 16.5k health. Bumped it to 20k with condi reduction food. It wont happen agian.