Guild Wars 2

The permastealth-trapper thief needs to be nerfed. There is no counter play to this. It’s toxic and should not exist in this game.

You wouldn’t happen to be in T4 and captured SBI’s Quentin Lake Tower this morning?

If so, I’m sorry

Stealth traps /thread

Rambitshouse.8712:

You wouldn’t happen to be in T4 and captured SBI’s Quentin Lake Tower this morning?

If so, I’m sorry

Oh sure, NOW you’re visible…. :P

Packit’s right though. He solved your problem for only 10 supply.

There is a pretty easy counter play. You need 2 things. Game awereness and condi cleanse.
A stun breaker could be usefull but I assume every decent build would have at least 1 .
Trapper thieves also have to 100% commit into the aggression so it balances things out.

Yeah problem solved, except when you’re downed by Caltrops because you spent 4 seconds setting the stealth trap.

Rambitshouse.8712:

You wouldn’t happen to be in T4 and captured SBI’s Quentin Lake Tower this morning?

If so, I’m sorry

No, I’m on Nsp.

Philelectric.3769:

There is a pretty easy counter play. You need 2 things. Game awereness and condi cleanse.
A stun breaker could be usefull but I assume every decent build would have at least 1 .
Trapper thieves also have to 100% commit into the aggression so it balances things out.

Trapper thieves have to commit 100%? What are you talking about? Can I have what you’re on right now? hah

Philelectric.3769:

There is a pretty easy counter play. You need 2 things. Game awereness and condi cleanse.
A stun breaker could be usefull but I assume every decent build would have at least 1 .
Trapper thieves also have to 100% commit into the aggression so it balances things out.

Sorry man but you must be high? Tell you what you get stupid comment of the week so far. Own that my friend, own that kitten.

Choppy.4183:

Rambitshouse.8712:

You wouldn’t happen to be in T4 and captured SBI’s Quentin Lake Tower this morning?

If so, I’m sorry

Oh sure, NOW you’re visible…. :P

Packit’s right though. He solved your problem for only 10 supply.

lol was never killed though

Rambitshouse.8712:

lol was never killed though

Badly worded on my part. I meant the OP when I said, “[Packit] solved your problem”.

A stealth trap in the lord’s room (assuming it was your opponent’s at that point) probably would have ended you or forced you to leave, no?

Choppy.4183:

Rambitshouse.8712:

lol was never killed though

Badly worded on my part. I meant the OP when I said, “[Packit] solved your problem”.

A stealth trap in the lord’s room (assuming it was your opponent’s at that point) probably would have ended you or forced you to leave, no?

No big my man.

Usually I just jump around like an idiot and hit my Take Root skill. Let the zerg have their small victory for 1v50ing a trash thief, no use in running

Whether or not it’s overpowered is up for debate.

What isn’t up for debate is that the build is stupid, easy, and downright unfun to play against.

That’s why it deserves to go, along with all other source of stealth stacking, non-animation-locking defenses, immunities, passives, and excessive CC.

Aside from running a few cleanses (which is compulsory in the current balance situation) ghost thief problems are easily solved by dropping a stealth trap and sitting on it.

i find it amusing that the dmg from these ghost thieves do not show up in the Dmg log either…

tbh I just run it to mess with large groups/k trains. Stop blobbing and I’ll stop playing GT.

Funny how people come with a stealth trap as counter (no other class mechanic requires that) or saying L2P while this “build” would be considered to be an exploit to most game studios. Unlike Anet who leaves it up for more then a year without giving a flying kitten about it.

Ben K.6238:

Aside from running a few cleanses (which is compulsory in the current balance situation) ghost thief problems are easily solved by dropping a stealth trap and sitting on it.

I find it hilarious that people think a valid counter to ghost thief is ensuring you carry stealth traps and also at least 10 supply for the stealth trap at all times incase you’re unfortunate enough to come across one. No build should require you to carry certain siege and supply to have a chance at countering it, get out of here with that kitten.
As Offair said, any game studio or even developer with a brain would see the issue with this build straight away, but no, not our special snowflakes.

NekoNoKoi.9137:

Ben K.6238:

Aside from running a few cleanses (which is compulsory in the current balance situation) ghost thief problems are easily solved by dropping a stealth trap and sitting on it.

I find it hilarious that people think a valid counter to ghost thief is ensuring you carry stealth traps and also at least 10 supply for the stealth trap at all times incase you’re unfortunate enough to come across one. No build should require you to carry certain siege and supply to have a chance at countering it, get out of here with that kitten.
As Offair said, any game studio or even developer with a brain would see the issue with this build straight away, but no, not our special snowflakes.

I hope it isn’t just Ghost thief which spurned this, as it’s nothing new. Any respectable gameplay dev would look at boons, and the nature of the elite specs in their current state and also immediately recognize the need to massively cut into them.

SOFT MOUSE

Anyway, they could just add striking back to traps. Would solve the issue without nerfing other aspects of thief or trapper runes.

If they do that though, they might want to look into changing traps a bit because they are all kinda meh.

The Game Slayer.7632:

The permastealth-trapper thief needs to be nerfed. There is no counter play to this. It’s toxic and should not exist in this game.

Stand in the thief’s black powder. That’s really all it takes. You can also see and hear the traps being set. Dodge through them. If you get hit with conditions use condi clear.

Let’s see:

1. Build bypasses “Revealed” debuff applied on attack due to using aoe traps.
2. Build revolves around perma stealth.
3. Not counting the stealth disruptor traps only engineer can reveal them actually as the rest of professions need a valid target to cast they reveal skills.

Of course it is not op, this are the kind of builds anet should buff up and make them meta, just like meditrapper.

Make stealth last longer and buff trap damage and it will be ok.

To be fair, it’s nearly impossible to kill them if they stay in stealth the whole time. But it is relatively easy to run away from them. I never had any problems on any of my classes (except necro maybe) to just run away. Nearly every roaming or zerg build has a stunbreaker + an effective/big condiremove. Pop it and get the he’ll put of there. The thief would have to give up initiative to follow you with shortbow and have less left to use D/P to stealth him. Just keep running, only very few will chase you long. You can also see and hear where the traps are put down, even when he is in stealth. If you can dodge into them, his opener to condi burst you is often mitigated completely.
You can’t win, that sucks, yep, but you don’t necessarily have to loose. You will definitely die, if you try to fight them. Nevertheless I think they should be needed a bit, adding some direct dmg to the traps or to some of them…

My opinion and what I do if I meet one. I can understand that some ppl hate them.
Sorry for my bad english in advance, it’s not my native language… :/
Feel free to correct me, if I made some serious mistakes

I fthey are running trapper runes, you will only down if you have less than 18k HP. If they are running perplexity, then thats stronger.

I play ghost thief every once in a blue moon (when im bored in WvW and there’s lots of blobbing going on). GT’s do need 100%. Most of the time you can just run away as they need to keep their initiative for stealthing (as opposed to using SB5 to chase you down)

Necros are also a bane to them (especially staff). Condi transfer mark can be deadly to GT.

Stealth Traps are only a soft counter, as any semi decent thief can kite/gtfo before anything can happen to him.

Essentially if you stay and fight, chances are good you will lose. If you just go on your merry little way (after you cleanse their condi burst) then you could walk away alive.

And despite the fact I do play this (although haven’t on a couple months), I Agree it does need a balance/re-work, but where stealth is its class mechanic, its going to take a bit to make sure that it doesn’t screw up any other classes that can stealth.

Holy crap just stand in the black powder. Stop whining about this and bring a condi clear. I hate this build too, but it’s counter is so simple. Can’t reach the black powder for the first few times? – use situational awareness and dodge into the traps, as you can see AND hear them being put down.

Turk.5460:

Holy crap just stand in the black powder. Stop whining about this and bring a condi clear. I hate this build too, but it’s counter is so simple. Can’t reach the black powder for the first few times? – use situational awareness and dodge into the traps, as you can see AND hear them being put down.

But that not a counter that just messes them up and makes them runs away a counter is a means of killing them not simply being annoying. Why thf players thinks it ok to always be able to get away with out every dyeing is beyond me. Stealth stacking and perma stealth in any other game that has any level of pvp balancing is NOT OK. In GW2 perma stealth and stealth stacking is NOT OK. No one wants to fight vs it and even starts to hate ppl who uses it.

I mean real take any other pvp game and add pema stealth to that game for one class and or hero and see how much it flips the game on its head. And ask you self this why should condi keep getting a free pass when power attk have to deal with reviling the stealth players.

vove.2768:

3. Not counting the stealth disruptor traps only engineer can reveal them actually as the rest of professions need a valid target to cast they reveal skills.

Heralds have a 360 range aoe reveal and they don’t have to sacrifice anything to take it.

Dragonhunters have an aoe reveal trap.

Also any class can stand in black powder to either force reveal or cause stealth to expire. Ghost thieves typically don’t run stunbreakers. Stun them after standing in black powder.

Additionally, both warriors and rangers have access to taunt, which will cause reveal on the thief. Neither requires a target.

This means 5 of the 9 classes in the game have access to aoe reveal or taunt without a target.

Of the classes that don’t: Elementalists are condition removal machines. Necros have consume conditions and condi transfers. Thieves are immune to conditions if they run shadows embrace. Mesmers have so many clones that the traps rarely hit the real mesmer if they aren’t AFK.

Hoelbrak, antitoxin, or melandru runes reduce incoming condition duration by 20-25%. Pair this with an anti condition duration food and you will be able to AFK while the thief drops his traps on you.

What’s with this “stand in black power” idea? Are there thieves dumb enough to use it so close to another player?

AngryGrump.5863:

vove.2768:

3. Not counting the stealth disruptor traps only engineer can reveal them actually as the rest of professions need a valid target to cast they reveal skills.

Heralds have a 360 range aoe reveal and they don’t have to sacrifice anything to take it.

Dragonhunters have an aoe reveal trap.

Also any class can stand in black powder to either force reveal or cause stealth to expire. Ghost thieves typically don’t run stunbreakers. Stun them after standing in black powder.

Additionally, both warriors and rangers have access to taunt, which will cause reveal on the thief. Neither requires a target.

This means 5 of the 9 classes in the game have access to aoe reveal or taunt without a target.

Of the classes that don’t: Elementalists are condition removal machines. Necros have consume conditions and condi transfers. Thieves are immune to conditions if they run shadows embrace. Mesmers have so many clones that the traps rarely hit the real mesmer if they aren’t AFK.

Hoelbrak, antitoxin, or melandru runes reduce incoming condition duration by 20-25%. Pair this with an anti condition duration food and you will be able to AFK while the thief drops his traps on you.

Few things black powder still blinds so stuns are not a good tool sitting in the effect. Only a few classes have reveal and they often do not last long enofe to kill thf (still can still move well over 1,200 ranges in sec and most reveal are on some what long cd vs stealth being on a very low cd. Ele even all in counter condi water earth tempest its still easy to condi burst an ele due to long cd blocking or simply evading condis are more effective then removing them (lag ping etc.. means condis are going to still tick to some level and being that you cant chose what condi your going to removes and often your going to simply removing the cover condis).

And still no one has realty looked the problem or question of why should condi dmg effects get a free pass where power dmg will reveal you? There is something very wrong with the balancing of dmg types in gw2. From its only needing one combo to make it strong, that applying it to ppl seems to trigger only a few effects where power dmg triggers all effects, and many condi skills apply more then one time at a time making them much more burst like when they should be DOT effects like in every other game that has come before gw2 and most likely after it.

I mean do you realty feel good killing ppl in a sec with out them putting up a fight at all? What the point of pvping when other players are effectively blind sided by attks and never able to even land hits. Do you realty think that skill that no one can see you?

For clarity, I am not defending this build. Just stating ways to fight it, if you so choose.

Most of these Thieves are smart enough to stealth stack some where in the distance or behind an object, etc. This can make the first thing difficult but not impossible.

1) Keep your eyes open for that little red circle, Black Powder. When you see it, hurry towards it and stand inside of it. This will, most of the time, cause the Thief to hit you as they’re leaping through it which will Reveal them.

Although this will only Reveal them for a brief time, it’s enough time for certain builds to kill them outright or to send them running for the hills. If your build is incapable of bringing them down within a few seconds, this may not be the best strategy but it’s good to know this information regardless.

2) Either be prepared to listen for traps being set or look for a very brief visual tell. The sound is identical to that of Ranger traps and the look is a small white wisp on the ground. Both are subtle but not unrecognizable with practice. This will allow you to either avoid the traps completely, if they don’t set them on top of you, or to evade through them.

3) Let them condition burst you. If you have ample condition removal, you can just clear their burst and walk away. They have poor sustained condition pressure after their Steal -> Trap burst and will only keep a few Bleeds or Poison on you until they can retry their burst. This should allow you enough time either to escape or to knock them out of stealth.

4) The least favorite of the options is to bring a Stealth Distruptor Trap. It is not viable counterplay but it is effective if used correctly. Many of these Thieves, even if intelligent, are greedy. They think they’re god-mode because they can’t be seen and even if they watch you place the trap, a lot of them will trip it anyway. I’ve fought plenty enough of them to tell you that very, very few have tip-toed around it or left me alone. Set the trap, AFK on top of the trap and wait until they push their luck and trip it. Either they run for the hills and never come back or they try to fight and, assuming they’re bad since most who run this build are, they die.

This build is not OP. It lacks counterplay is the problem. It has poor sustained condition damage and a moderate burst if the target stands in Caltrops and doesn’t clear any of the conditions. It is strictly a gimmick troll build that a lot of players don’t know how to handle. Yes, it should be fixed but no, it is not impossible to defeat. It’s just not worth your time to try if you don’t like doing it. Personally I enjoy it because the fight isn’t over in 5 seconds, like most are, and I get to think outside the box while I try to outsmart them. It’s frustrating when they play it semi-well because they have such a huge advantage over me but I only have myself to blame if I fail.

AngryGrump your mesmer example only shows you have no clue how the game works at its most basic level. Clones and phantasms have to be summoned upon something and generally requires a target, the only way a mesmer can summon a clone to counter this thief is to run deceptive evasion which almost no mesmers run at all.

No target = no clones or phantasms which is why a high stealth uptime enemy is hard to fight as a mesmer.

apharma.3741:

AngryGrump your mesmer example only shows you have no clue how the game works at its most basic level.

You got me. I was hoping nobody would notice but I’ve been exposed.

Clownmug.8357:

What’s with this “stand in black power” idea? Are there thieves dumb enough to use it so close to another player?

Was thinking the same thing lol

Yes its not OP yes there are ways to counter it. It’s the fact they can stay in stealth while dishing out condi damage that’s the issue.

I’ve seen complain posts about rangers/engis/mesmos spamming stealth but this ok to you guys? Jeeze get a grip.

Clownmug.8357:

What’s with this “stand in black power” idea? Are there thieves dumb enough to use it so close to another player?

Since 90% of the thieves that run that build don’t have a brain people actually consider this to be a counter. The problem is it’s absolutely not a counter when you run up against a competent player that decides to run ghost thief for a laugh because they are bored as kitten of the terrible combat we’ve had to deal with since HoT.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Clownmug.8357:

What’s with this “stand in black power” idea? Are there thieves dumb enough to use it so close to another player?

Since 90% of the thieves that run that build don’t have a brain people actually consider this to be a counter. The problem is it’s absolutely not a counter when you run up against a competent player that decides to run ghost thief for a laugh because they are bored as kitten of the terrible combat we’ve had to deal with since HoT.

If you’re not good enough to fight this build, or smart enough to figure out how, then just don’t deal with it and run in the opposite direction. Why waste your time trying to kitten measure in a 1v1 you’re not skilled enough to win, then due to lack of understanding, complain later on the forum?

There is no profession that can’t run away from this build.

Turk.5460:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Clownmug.8357:

What’s with this “stand in black power” idea? Are there thieves dumb enough to use it so close to another player?

Since 90% of the thieves that run that build don’t have a brain people actually consider this to be a counter. The problem is it’s absolutely not a counter when you run up against a competent player that decides to run ghost thief for a laugh because they are bored as kitten of the terrible combat we’ve had to deal with since HoT.

If you’re not good enough to fight this build, or smart enough to figure out how, then just don’t deal with it and run in the opposite direction. Why waste your time trying to kitten measure in a 1v1 you’re not skilled enough to win, then due to lack of understanding, complain later on the forum?

There is no profession that can’t run away from this build.

Core guard and mesmer unless running and burning a very specific set of utilities can’t if the thief isn’t just straight awful.

Jim’s right, though. Unless the thief is just trash, standing in BP is arguably worse than trying to cleave.

Cheers.

Turk.5460:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Clownmug.8357:

What’s with this “stand in black power” idea? Are there thieves dumb enough to use it so close to another player?

Since 90% of the thieves that run that build don’t have a brain people actually consider this to be a counter. The problem is it’s absolutely not a counter when you run up against a competent player that decides to run ghost thief for a laugh because they are bored as kitten of the terrible combat we’ve had to deal with since HoT.

If you’re not good enough to fight this build, or smart enough to figure out how, then just don’t deal with it and run in the opposite direction. Why waste your time trying to kitten measure in a 1v1 you’re not skilled enough to win, then due to lack of understanding, complain later on the forum?

There is no profession that can’t run away from this build.

Lol found the ghost thief.

There is no skill involved in a fight with a ghost thief for either player. It’s just a matter of being on one of the few builds that can counter them, depending on the ghost thief to be absolutely terrible and fall for things like accidentally revealing themselves, or just completely ignoring them and moving on.

For example, about 3 weeks ago I 1v3’d a group of ghost thieves. It wasn’t because I did an amazing job of outplaying them, it was because I was roaming on a P/P scrapper that could reveal them which completely negated their condi removal. The fight was over in literally 5 seconds, maybe 15 if you count fully finishing them off.

About a week later I was on my ranger and put a stealth trap down in the middle of the fight, stood on it, and the thief was actually stupid enough to reveal himself. The worst part is it was at SW camp where he could have easily ported up to the ledge to escape but he tried running into the camp instead at which point I proceeded to blow him up. (and then he sent me a QQ whisper about stealth traps being cheese lol).

Any competent player would have easily escaped in that situation, just like any competent player won’t just heartseeker into you when they see you standing in their BP. They will just move off and try again at their convenience, or move on to an easier victim. Relying on them to be terrible isn’t a counter.

How to fix: Put a bit of damage of thief traps= traps cause reveal= no more ghost theif.

Ario.8964:

How to fix: Put a bit of damage of thief traps= traps cause reveal= no more ghost theif.

This is not a fix at all.

The Ghost thief is not a very effective build. Your solution makes it marginally less effective but does not preclude a ghost thief.

There is only on trap they use and that needle trap from which they get all of 2 seconds (before traiting) of stealth every 30 seconds.

The bulk of damage is the confusion on steal and the caltrops.

From stealth one can also load confusion via a heal (or burn) , confusion via the use of Pain Inverter, Chill and Posion via the human elite reaper of grenth and bleed cripples via uncatchable.

Only needle trap does damage and there a reson the damage component was removed in a prior patch and that because it created more issues than it solved, that being no thief would bother using a trap as it compromised their ability to stealth when needed.

I could still have a perma stealth thief without using a single trap still able to inflict damage and a multiple of them could still kill people that decided to stand and fight them . As example two in unison can easily load 22 stacks confusion without ever leaving stealth.

Your proposed solution would in essence make traps unusable for the most part and only lead to the Ghost thief finding other sources of damage from stealth meaning this conversation will be going on even after traps made unusable.

In fact I would suggest that relative to other thief builds that might use traps the perma stealth trapper that used d/p to stack stealth will much more easily deal with a reveal when that single trap triggered as their major stealth source is stealth stack with d/p.

Turk.5460:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Clownmug.8357:

What’s with this “stand in black power” idea? Are there thieves dumb enough to use it so close to another player?

Since 90% of the thieves that run that build don’t have a brain people actually consider this to be a counter. The problem is it’s absolutely not a counter when you run up against a competent player that decides to run ghost thief for a laugh because they are bored as kitten of the terrible combat we’ve had to deal with since HoT.

If you’re not good enough to fight this build, or smart enough to figure out how, then just don’t deal with it and run in the opposite direction. Why waste your time trying to kitten measure in a 1v1 you’re not skilled enough to win, then due to lack of understanding, complain later on the forum?

There is no profession that can’t run away from this build.

I honestly agree with this for the most part. Although more than a few professions can’t escape a ghost Thief so it’s not really right to say everyone can run from it.

Still, it’s incredibly easy to beat the majority of them. As I’d said in my comment explaining ways to fight back against them, unless they’re actually good, most of them won’t give you any trouble. And I’ve fought plenty enough to know that even the good ones aren’t that scary. They simply don’t have enough sustained condition pressure.

The build lacks counterplay which is why it needs to be fixed. That doesn’t mean it’s unbeatable unless you’re a zombie. In over 7k hours spent strictly in WvW, and a lot of it roaming or small scale, I’ve literally only ever met one that was so good I got completely destroyed. And guess what? He wasn’t even a 100% ghost Thief, just a really good D/P condition Thief that had an impressively good understanding of how to maintain significant condition uptime. I could see him plenty of times during the fight but he was simply too good to pin down (and this only happened like 2 months ago).

Leave traps, they are already terrible. Put damage on caltrops (both skill and traited) and problem solved.

Turk.5460:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Clownmug.8357:

What’s with this “stand in black power” idea? Are there thieves dumb enough to use it so close to another player?

Since 90% of the thieves that run that build don’t have a brain people actually consider this to be a counter. The problem is it’s absolutely not a counter when you run up against a competent player that decides to run ghost thief for a laugh because they are bored as kitten of the terrible combat we’ve had to deal with since HoT.

If you’re not good enough to fight this build, or smart enough to figure out how, then just don’t deal with it and run in the opposite direction. Why waste your time trying to kitten measure in a 1v1 you’re not skilled enough to win, then due to lack of understanding, complain later on the forum?

There is no profession that can’t run away from this build.

Spoken like a true ghost thief. The problem isn’t whether this build is or isn’t OP, the problem comes from the fact that they can actively damage you without breaking stealth. That’s bad design. Pure and simple. There is no excuse, no defense for this kind of nonsense.

If you tried this build once, you’ve tried it the same amount of times as me. If you haven’t tried it, and still complain, then you’re not very good at this game, as that is a basic strategy of understanding your enemies.

I’m not defending the build, I think it’s boring, and only good for stomping incompetent players. I’m defending the logic and understanding that should be applied when fighting against opponents using strategies and mechanics one doesn’t understand.

If there is a universal cheese build, Ghost Thief is certainly the poster child. Nerf stealth stacking or do some other fix but I agree the build is complete trash and too annoying to survive.

Turk.5460:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Turk.5460:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Clownmug.8357:

What’s with this “stand in black power” idea? Are there thieves dumb enough to use it so close to another player?

Since 90% of the thieves that run that build don’t have a brain people actually consider this to be a counter. The problem is it’s absolutely not a counter when you run up against a competent player that decides to run ghost thief for a laugh because they are bored as kitten of the terrible combat we’ve had to deal with since HoT.

If you’re not good enough to fight this build, or smart enough to figure out how, then just don’t deal with it and run in the opposite direction. Why waste your time trying to kitten measure in a 1v1 you’re not skilled enough to win, then due to lack of understanding, complain later on the forum?

There is no profession that can’t run away from this build.

Lol found the ghost thief.

There is no skill involved in a fight with a ghost thief for either player. It’s just a matter of being on one of the few builds that can counter them, depending on the ghost thief to be absolutely terrible and fall for things like accidentally revealing themselves, or just completely ignoring them and moving on.

For example, about 3 weeks ago I 1v3’d a group of ghost thieves. It wasn’t because I did an amazing job of outplaying them, it was because I was roaming on a P/P scrapper that could reveal them which completely negated their condi removal. The fight was over in literally 5 seconds, maybe 15 if you count fully finishing them off.

About a week later I was on my ranger and put a stealth trap down in the middle of the fight, stood on it, and the thief was actually stupid enough to reveal himself. The worst part is it was at SW camp where he could have easily ported up to the ledge to escape but he tried running into the camp instead at which point I proceeded to blow him up. (and then he sent me a QQ whisper about stealth traps being cheese lol).

Any competent player would have easily escaped in that situation, just like any competent player won’t just heartseeker into you when they see you standing in their BP. They will just move off and try again at their convenience, or move on to an easier victim. Relying on them to be terrible isn’t a counter.

Played the spec once, haven’t died to one since.

Oh man, you sure negated my argument about standing in the black powder! Please share more about how the “good” ghost thieves will move off IN STEALTH and try again. With all that stealth they still have after eating 5 initiative on an unused black powder. Oh, you mean they’ll run out of stealth? Leaving you to see them put down another black powder not so far away, unstealthed? Where you can stand in it again? So they waste more initiative? I concede, you’re so much more knowledgeable about initiative cost, situational awareness and stealth duration.

TL;DR: a slightly sarcastic L2FP

Because “good” ghost thieves won’t over commit and wait until the last second to stack stealth. “Good” ghost thieves will still have blinding powder available if they find themselves in a bad situation, and that 4 sec of stealth + super speed is plenty of time to get some distance to stealth some more. “Good” ghost thieves will still have plenty of initiative left to shortbow 5 up to a ledge, or to a doorway depending on what’s nearby.

I absolutely did play the build to learn it’s weaknesses, just like I do with everything. What I found was that I was unkillable in small fights unless someone had an aoe reveal and then they managed to lock me down with chain cc’s, this usually took multiple players to pull off. This doesn’t mean I killed everyone I came across, anyone with adequate condi removal could basically ignore me because the build doesn’t have enough pressure, but it is without a doubt the safest build in the game if you have half a brain.

TL;DR: If you couldn’t survive someone jumping in your black powder, L2FP.

one of these thiefs thought it was a good idea to hide in bay after we capped. He would have probably got away with it much longer except that he decided to move from the good spot he was in… we got inside and people kept running around trying to find him even though he had stopped moving. haaa… I walked over to his dot (because tracking was still on)… and just started swinging the good ol’ sword until he unstealthed then, well, he died quickly after that.. man you think he might have at least tried to attack.. bahaa

martin.1653:

Leave traps, they are already terrible. Put damage on caltrops (both skill and traited) and problem solved.

Again not a solution. No one would ever or could ever use Caltrops were this change made. Caltrops is a 10 second field and were I playing against a thief I would RUN INTO the field to reveal the thief .The thief would not be able to stealth for ten+ seconds.

I still think the solution is to limit stealth stacking. In compensation the base stealth for most stealth utilities would go from 3 seconds to 4 seconds. (or even five) meaning with the trait out of SA this becomes 5 or 6 seconds.

Once stealthed one could not add more stealth.

Now shadow refuge pulses adding stealth while stealthed. The mechanics of this would have to be changed or this could remain as an only skill where stealth can stack.

the forum buh strikes

Incredible how people are still argueing that you can;

- ‘just stand in the black powndur!’, yeah, cause I can perfectly predict where the invisible dude is going to apply his next 10 seconds of stealth.. And I have the mobility to instantly be there. No problem.
- ‘use a stealth trap oktnxbye!’, Can’t believe people actually think this is ok. How little could one understand about WvW? What if elementalists had a build that could only be countered by a stealth trap? What if DH did? No build should require you to use supply, an external commodity, to be able to stand a chance. Let alone the fact that you have to buy stealth traps and it would take up inventory space. Seriously, what the actual kitten. Besides, Shadow Step+steal and you are 2400 range away.
- ‘just use condi cleanse!’, well, duh. Thing is, every other condi build you face requires the same thing, but you can actually see them. The Ghost Thief just restealths and restealths and applies a new batch of condi’s until you either screw up the cleanse, his cooldowns were lower then yours, or he can’t kill you at which point he just leaves. Fun and interactive gameplay, people.
- ‘just run away’, so.. do you people even know what ‘counter’ means?

The real issue here is that Ghost Thief can do what should never be possible in any serious PvP game; kill people while remaining in stealth. It requires zero skill other then a little positioning. There is no risk, medium reward (staying alive against a zerg while still harrassing is a win in itself). Toxic, and should’ve been removed a long time ago.