While at it, Make stealth less accessible. It shouldnt be a free out of jail card. You always should have to decide if you use stealth for an opener or to run, not being able to open from stealth and run instantly again.
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Piken Square EU, maybe soon on your server.
While at it, Make stealth less accessible. It shouldnt be a free out of jail card. You always should have to decide if you use stealth for an opener or to run, not being able to open from stealth and run instantly again.
How is it a free get out of jail card for regular thieves though? 9 initiative to gain 3 seconds of stealth is quite a hefty price, so is using a 40 second cooldown skill. If the thief decides to run away straight after, he just spent the leftover initiative as well as the initiative he regen’d in between and has 0 left. He also accomplished nothing in that window.
Long story short, you can’t just ‘make stealth less accessible’ without buffing thief survivability in other areas.
Wrong, you have to make stealth less accessible.
Thief is the only class that is always in a top spot in wvw roaming since GW2 and that’s because of easy access to stealth, high mobility and great damage.
You still can outrun most players without stealth but you have to play more carefully.
“If a thief runs from you, you won your fight” is just the poor excuse for being overpowered. A thief should die the same as any other class in this game when making mistakes – yet, it doesn’t.
[orz] below mediocre – we sponsor Arenanet
Piken Square EU, maybe soon on your server.
Wrong, you have to make stealth less accessible.
Thief is the only class that is always in a top spot in wvw roaming since GW2 and that’s because of easy access to stealth, high mobility and great damage.
You still can outrun most players without stealth but you have to play more carefully.
“If a thief runs from you, you won your fight” is just the poor excuse for being overpowered. A thief should die the same as any other class in this game when making mistakes – yet, it doesn’t.
Thieves die all the time…..
Also known as Puck when my account isn’t suspended
LGN
Leave traps, they are already terrible. Put damage on caltrops (both skill and traited) and problem solved.
Again not a solution. No one would ever or could ever use Caltrops were this change made. Caltrops is a 10 second field and were I playing against a thief I would RUN INTO the field to reveal the thief .The thief would not be able to stealth for ten+ seconds.
I still think the solution is to limit stealth stacking. In compensation the base stealth for most stealth utilities would go from 3 seconds to 4 seconds. (or even five) meaning with the trait out of SA this becomes 5 or 6 seconds.
Once stealthed one could not add more stealth.
Now shadow refuge pulses adding stealth while stealthed. The mechanics of this would have to be changed or this could remain as an only skill where stealth can stack.
I should have been more clear: add damage when dropping caltrops. Leave rest as is. Caltrops are dropped under someone’s feet. If you walk into caltrops field they you deserve all the condi you get and thief shouldn’t be punished for that.
Stealth stacking is fine. I’d go as far and say that limit for stacking it not necessary. If someone wants to run around in stealth being useless so be it. If someone exploits that to cap SM or cause other shenanigans – even better!
There is too much complaining to ‘normalize’ the whole combat. RNG, ‘exploits’ like stacking massive amounts of some boons, making one-shot builds, silly builds like ghost thief… all these make this game interesting and challenging.
When things like these start to break meta then intervene, but as long as it’s marginal and not breaking game then it should stay.
This is making me laugh too hard. Literally played this yesterday at a server’s spawn and right outside their keep. So much fun, so much salt.
Hard to counter? It’s main counters are condi clear and you moving on….if you are in WvW and die to this build you are either AFK or really need to rethink your build. Thief jumps you, applies conditions then backs out to re-stealth…all you do is clear conditions and that’s 20-30 seconds of cooldowns for him.
I love how people complain thieves need less survivability or less access to stealth…hahahahahaha. It’s a thief, what do you expect? Stealth is their armor.
This is making me laugh too hard. Literally played this yesterday at a server’s spawn and right outside their keep. So much fun, so much salt.
Hard to counter? It’s main counters are condi clear and you moving on….if you are in WvW and die to this build you are either AFK or really need to rethink your build. Thief jumps you, applies conditions then backs out to re-stealth…all you do is clear conditions and that’s 20-30 seconds of cooldowns for him.
I love how people complain thieves need less survivability or less access to stealth…hahahahahaha. It’s a thief, what do you expect? Stealth is their armor.
And your view of fun IS the reason why it need to be removed because its a build only to harass ppl in a game where ppl are trying to have fun. Its not fun to fight and is very toxic to game play to counter. In any other game with pvp balancing it would of been removed by now. The game is not your personally troll room for builds like this.
Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA
Welcome to open world PvP…or just PvP in general. PvP is meant to be toxic. We are literally finding the best ways to kill people…Oh and again, condi cleanse is the easy counter…any other game with PvP balancing? Bwahahahaha. WOW, Aion, BDO, Rift. All of them have imbalancing and ALL of them have “OP” “Troll” flavor of the month class builds.
But really, trolling? I wouldn’t call it trolling. It’s called WvW.
Simple tip. Learn your class, then learn the class you need to beat. I’m playing trapper thief so I can better understand how to defeat them. Once you play a spec and learn the mindset, it becomes that much easier to counter. I only started playing this build yesterday and i have enough knowledge to counter or beat 97% of the ones I come across.
I don’t think it’s particularly overpowered. I’ve beaten ghost thieves lots of times, even with my poor Rifle Engi build (in dire need of buffs, and has practically no condi cleanse). However, that’s relying on Detection Pulse to un-stealth them, then burst them while they’re revealed.
Still, I think the build should be removed because there’s no real counterplay to it unless you happen to be running a reveal as part of your default setup. If you don’t have a reveal or stealth trap, it’s just pure anti-fun.
IMO, combat should be fun for both parties. Each player should feel like they could be doing something to win the fight. Unless you’re built for it, that’s just not possible vs ghost thief.
Simple tip. Learn your class, then learn the class you need to beat. I’m playing trapper thief so I can better understand how to defeat them. Once you play a spec and learn the mindset, it becomes that much easier to counter. I only started playing this build yesterday and i have enough knowledge to counter or beat 97% of the ones I come across.
If you consider running away a counter……
Also known as Puck when my account isn’t suspended
LGN
Welcome to open world PvP…or just PvP in general. PvP is meant to be toxic. We are literally finding the best ways to kill people…Oh and again, condi cleanse is the easy counter…any other game with PvP balancing? Bwahahahaha. WOW, Aion, BDO, Rift. All of them have imbalancing and ALL of them have “OP” “Troll” flavor of the month class builds.
But really, trolling? I wouldn’t call it trolling. It’s called WvW.
Welcome to open world PvP…or just PvP in general. PvP is meant to be toxic. We are literally finding the best ways to kill people…Oh and again, condi cleanse is the easy counter…any other game with PvP balancing? Bwahahahaha. WOW, Aion, BDO, Rift. All of them have imbalancing and ALL of them have “OP” “Troll” flavor of the month class builds.
But really, trolling? I wouldn’t call it trolling. It’s called WvW.
And this is why we can’t have nice things
sadly that isnt even true in BDO they nefed CC to 4 seconds inverval due how easy was to spam CC, wizard got its aoe stack massivly merfed and in bdo evasion is really cool mechanic based on reflex+combos (now players if want super aoe stack damage to win they need to put effort in that when spiking targets).
The most flavour of the month thing is… lvl up your gear and kill target with op gear.
1st April joke, when gw2 receives a “balance” update.
Welcome to open world PvP…or just PvP in general. PvP is meant to be toxic. We are literally finding the best ways to kill people…Oh and again, condi cleanse is the easy counter…any other game with PvP balancing? Bwahahahaha. WOW, Aion, BDO, Rift. All of them have imbalancing and ALL of them have “OP” “Troll” flavor of the month class builds.
But really, trolling? I wouldn’t call it trolling. It’s called WvW.
None of these games you mentioned supports a build that grants 100% stealth up time while dishing out (condi) damage. You just trying to find a justification for this build and frankly, you have some very lame arguments for it
Big Babou, Ranger for life.
Madness Rises [Rise] – Banners Hold.
Don’t argue with idiots, they pull you down their level and own you with experience.
There is imbalance, and then there is outright broken. Ghost thief is an example of outright broken. The fact that, in a competitive game mode you can remain in stealth the entire time you are killing someone from a distance with traps you placed minutes earlier is absolutely ridiculous and just godawful skill design.
Ghost thief highlights some of the many things wrong with class balance in wvw. The mechanics of stealth and conditions are totally broken in pvp and wvw. And another thing, traps should NOT BE in place FOR 5 MINUTES, and the range for them to disappear should be a lot less then 2500.
Just unbelievably bad design, and frankly insulting that this was made easier by taking power damage away from traps….This is why we need to split skill balance between game modes.
I say what needs to be said, get used to it.
Honesty is not insulting, stupidity is.
>Class Balance is a Joke<
Welcome to open world PvP…or just PvP in general. PvP is meant to be toxic. We are literally finding the best ways to kill people…Oh and again, condi cleanse is the easy counter…any other game with PvP balancing? Bwahahahaha. WOW, Aion, BDO, Rift. All of them have imbalancing and ALL of them have “OP” “Troll” flavor of the month class builds.
But really, trolling? I wouldn’t call it trolling. It’s called WvW.
And this is why we can’t have nice things
sadly that isnt even true in BDO they nefed CC to 4 seconds inverval due how easy was to spam CC, wizard got its aoe stack massivly merfed and in bdo evasion is really cool mechanic based on reflex+combos (now players if want super aoe stack damage to win they need to put effort in that when spiking targets).
The most flavour of the month thing is… lvl up your gear and kill target with op gear.
What are you even talking about? I was referring to the attitude that PvP actually has to be toxic, and if it isn’t then its failed as a game mode.
Welcome to open world PvP…or just PvP in general. PvP is meant to be toxic. We are literally finding the best ways to kill people…Oh and again, condi cleanse is the easy counter…any other game with PvP balancing? Bwahahahaha. WOW, Aion, BDO, Rift. All of them have imbalancing and ALL of them have “OP” “Troll” flavor of the month class builds.
But really, trolling? I wouldn’t call it trolling. It’s called WvW.
And this is why we can’t have nice things
sadly that isnt even true in BDO they nefed CC to 4 seconds inverval due how easy was to spam CC, wizard got its aoe stack massivly merfed and in bdo evasion is really cool mechanic based on reflex+combos (now players if want super aoe stack damage to win they need to put effort in that when spiking targets).
The most flavour of the month thing is… lvl up your gear and kill target with op gear.
What are you even talking about? I was referring to the attitude that PvP actually has to be toxic, and if it isn’t then its failed as a game mode.
…. wanted to quote larka, migh have missclicked and quoted yours instead since it had larka’s comment about flavour of the months builds.
1st April joke, when gw2 receives a “balance” update.
How people fair against this build has no bearing on whether there should be alterations to this spec.
For starters I dont think the spec performs anywhere near as well as some other thief specs. And yes, most experienced players know whats happening and how to avoid it. You could just run a perma resistance condi Malyx rev and ignore the ghost thief entirely.
That is not what this thread is about. It is about whether or not this build is good for the game. Especially a game that promotes fast paced action combat as one of it’s main selling points.
Where is the play and counter play with an adversary that is never visible? How does this build encourage new players to the game that encounter it to return to play again? Even the most newbie player can attempt to ‘play their hand’ in a combat where the combatant is visible some of the time. This allows you to engage in the combat and interact with your enemies. This is where the fun comes from in GW2 combat.
You want to encourage as many new players as possible to the game. How many new players would be eager and willing to go out to WvW after walking out from spawn getting a boatload of condis on them from an enemy they never saw and then fell over dead?
Yes you can take stealth traps with you. But i feel they should be a bonus to your kit, not a necessity.
Any build on any class that is only fun for the person playing it and is incredibly frustrating and trolly for the person fighting against it should be removed, regardless of how effective that build is or isn’t. It’s just bad game design to have unfun troll builds. Ghost thief and condi chrono both fall into this category. Its not a matter of whether you can beat them or not, its a matter of it being completely unfun to fight them and the best option being to just completely avoid them because of how unfun it is to fight them. They’re both troll builds and should both be completely removed from the game for that reason alone.
Fun Fails to Exceed Anti-Fun
Anti-fun is the negative experience your opponents feel when you do something that prevents them from ‘playing their game’ or doing activities they consider fun. While everything useful you can do as a player is likely to cause SOME anti-fun in your opponents, it only becomes a design issue when the ‘anti-fun’ created on your use of a mechanic is greater than your fun in using the mechanic. Dark Binding is VERY favorable on this measurement, because opponents get clutch dodges just like you get clutch hits, so it might actually create fun on both sides, instead of fun on one and weak anti-fun on another. On the other hand, a strong mana burn is NOT desirable — if you drain someone to 0 you feel kinda good, and they feel TERRIBLE — so the anti-fun is exceeded by the fun. This is important because the goal of the game is for players to have fun, so designers should seek abilities that result in a net increase of fun in the game. Basic design theory, yes?
Perma-stealth thief is a pretty clear example of anti-fun because unless the opponent happens to be specifically built for countering it (with a reveal or aoe spam), they can’t fight back at all. This is only fun for the thief and no fun for their opponent.
Welcome to open world PvP…or just PvP in general. PvP is meant to be toxic. We are literally finding the best ways to kill people…Oh and again, condi cleanse is the easy counter…any other game with PvP balancing? Bwahahahaha. WOW, Aion, BDO, Rift. All of them have imbalancing and ALL of them have “OP” “Troll” flavor of the month class builds.
But really, trolling? I wouldn’t call it trolling. It’s called WvW.
And this is why we can’t have nice things
I think congrats are in order OriOri.
I would have used a lot more expletives addressing this bafflingly backwards opinion.
Just make needle trap deal some physical damage upon activation, problem solved? Maybe I missed it, but why is this simple fix not the solution?
The only counter-argument I could think of is that this would completely ruin trapper runes for thief – and no, it wouldn’t really. You could still utilize all the other traps to maximum potential, you just wouldn’t be able to ghost it up 100% of the time if you wanted to deal a large amount of condition damage.
Also, even if it did ruin trapper runes for thief….
a. Great and good riddance.
b. It would make the game a hell of a lot better for about 99.5% of other players
c. Once again, no it wouldn’t because you could still utilize the other traps for stealth
Just make needle trap deal some physical damage upon activation, problem solved? Maybe I missed it, but why is this simple fix not the solution?
The only counter-argument I could think of is that this would completely ruin trapper runes for thief – and no, it wouldn’t really. You could still utilize all the other traps to maximum potential, you just wouldn’t be able to ghost it up 100% of the time if you wanted to deal a large amount of condition damage.
Also, even if it did ruin trapper runes for thief….
a. Great and good riddance.
b. It would make the game a hell of a lot better for about 99.5% of other players
c. Once again, no it wouldn’t because you could still utilize the other traps for stealth
That is how the trap used to work, but for some reason anet wanted to encourage use of this build and removed the Power based damage from it so it would not cause reveal which made it appealing to use with trapper runes. This is why it has become a larger problem then it was. Now a thief can essentially stay in stealth pretty much the entire time he is laying traps around you.
Stealth has always been already a broken and over abused mechanic, and thieves have way too much of it, so that change essentially made the issue even worse.
I say what needs to be said, get used to it.
Honesty is not insulting, stupidity is.
>Class Balance is a Joke<
Just make needle trap deal some physical damage upon activation, problem solved? Maybe I missed it, but why is this simple fix not the solution?
The only counter-argument I could think of is that this would completely ruin trapper runes for thief – and no, it wouldn’t really. You could still utilize all the other traps to maximum potential, you just wouldn’t be able to ghost it up 100% of the time if you wanted to deal a large amount of condition damage.
Also, even if it did ruin trapper runes for thief….
a. Great and good riddance.
b. It would make the game a hell of a lot better for about 99.5% of other players
c. Once again, no it wouldn’t because you could still utilize the other traps for stealth
Trapper runes have little to do with Ghost thief. There are more Ghost thiefs that use other runes that are much deadlier. Tarpper runes only add 2 seconds stealth on using a trap and most theifes use just ONE trap meaning 2 seconds stealth on a 30 second cooldown.
a ghost thief in balthazar or perpelexity is more dangerous. Stealth comes from stacking via d/p. This not addressed by adding damage to needle trap while it would make the trap unusuable for legit builds and it not addreessed by removing trapper runes.
No traps used outside the one from respite tied to the heal. No trappers runes. Permastealth comes from HIS and d/p. Torment confusion bleeds and posion all applied from stealth while maintaining stealth via the d/p weaponset.
The build editor also uses old style perpexity. These are changed now and proc on heal meaning interrupt not needed.
This is making me laugh too hard. Literally played this yesterday at a server’s spawn and right outside their keep. So much fun, so much salt.
Hard to counter? It’s main counters are condi clear and you moving on….if you are in WvW and die to this build you are either AFK or really need to rethink your build. Thief jumps you, applies conditions then backs out to re-stealth…all you do is clear conditions and that’s 20-30 seconds of cooldowns for him.
I love how people complain thieves need less survivability or less access to stealth…hahahahahaha. It’s a thief, what do you expect? Stealth is their armor.
So you’ve cleaned that condi bomb with your condi cleanse build, what do you do next, considering thief jumps around you applying garbage conditions, while your condi cleanse build chokes on cooldowns
Simple tip. Learn your class, then learn the class you need to beat. I’m playing trapper thief so I can better understand how to defeat them. Once you play a spec and learn the mindset, it becomes that much easier to counter. I only started playing this build yesterday and i have enough knowledge to counter or beat 97% of the ones I come across.
If you consider running away a counter……
Like the ideal of countering a Nike war “let them run away and they are counter…”
A real counter is a means of killing them not letting them simply be there all the time with out killing you. And most ppl know that you cant truly counter stealth nor can you truly counter a thf. You simply make them run away at best or bore them to death.
Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA
This is making me laugh too hard. Literally played this yesterday at a server’s spawn and right outside their keep. So much fun, so much salt.
Hard to counter? It’s main counters are condi clear and you moving on….if you are in WvW and die to this build you are either AFK or really need to rethink your build. Thief jumps you, applies conditions then backs out to re-stealth…all you do is clear conditions and that’s 20-30 seconds of cooldowns for him.
I love how people complain thieves need less survivability or less access to stealth…hahahahahaha. It’s a thief, what do you expect? Stealth is their armor.
So you’ve cleaned that condi bomb with your condi cleanse build, what do you do next, considering thief jumps around you applying garbage conditions, while your condi cleanse build chokes on cooldowns
Well obviously you blast light fields!
Another derailing post. ^^ North Keep: One of the village residents will now flee if their home is destroyed.
“Game over man, Game Over!” – RIP Bill
How about nicking CU’s solution of making stealthers see other stealthers when in stealth?
Or Anet could take the lesson and make every class having this gimmick… no fights, no lag, players would only notive the fps drop when zerg is nearby, no players complaning about dumb skillbalance.
Everyone stealthed.
Gw2 fixed.
1st April joke, when gw2 receives a “balance” update.
How about nicking CU’s solution of making stealthers see other stealthers when in stealth?
That not that bad of an ideal whom ever pulls the trigger first becomes unstealth and ppl attk them. Or you have the stealth classes tell you where the other stealth are.
Over all stealth needs a bigger down time when your pulled out or simply make it so you cant stack stealth at all so when you have 2 sec of stealth your going to be unstealthed in 2 sec even if you tried to re-stealth during stealth. Making stealth more of a very temp effect that only lets you lose ppl for a big and get in and land big hits.
Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA
I prefered they finally nerfed stealth for all classes or give every class a useful counter against it.
Ghost thief is just the latest monster Anet has created. Mesmer and thief were ridiculous overpowered with their stealth builds before – and we talk about 5 years here.
Stealth makes people think that “you won a fight” when your opponent has to reset while for the rest of the classes “winning” means you downed your opponent.
Some people die on epidemic, other have skill.
- great warlord Waha of Sea 2981bc
I prefered they finally nerfed stealth for all classes or give every class a useful counter against it.
Ghost thief is just the latest monster Anet has created. Mesmer and thief were ridiculous overpowered with their stealth builds before – and we talk about 5 years here.
Stealth makes people think that “you won a fight” when your opponent has to reset while for the rest of the classes “winning” means you downed your opponent.
Stealth is fine when you are forced to reveal yourself to actually kill your opponent. This ghost thief build is 100% stealth and can still kill you. That’s absurdly broken.
Its also incredibly effective, even in the hands of people who have never played thief before. I know some thief playes n the forums here will die before admitting that this build is broken, but its stupidly effective, breaks core game mechanics that are designed the way they are for balance, and can output tons of condi pressure while remaining invisible, effectively making it impossible for all but 2 classes to fight. And of those 2 classes, they don’t have the ability to force the ghost thief out of stealth if the thief doesn’t want to be forced out.
Stealth is fine when you are forced to reveal yourself to actually kill your opponent. This ghost thief build is 100% stealth and can still kill you. That’s absurdly broken.
Nah, sorry, your whole class is broken in wvw and not since HoT. Thieves were always broken because of their access to stealth paired with ridiculous mobility and high damage.
And it has nothing to do with HoT stats – HoT stats just made it worse.
Some people die on epidemic, other have skill.
- great warlord Waha of Sea 2981bc
Stealth is fine when you are forced to reveal yourself to actually kill your opponent. This ghost thief build is 100% stealth and can still kill you. That’s absurdly broken.
I disagree. A 3s window to kill an attacker with a host of evades and teleports before they go back into stealth for long periods of time is not a well balanced mechanic. Stealth stacking should be removed. At least then stealth builds would have to “come up for air” every few seconds allowing some counter play. It also eliminates the Ghost Thief.
Sarcasm For Hire [SFH]
“Youre lips are movin and youre complaining about something thats wingeing.”
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