Guild Wars 2

Straegen.2938:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Stealth is fine when you are forced to reveal yourself to actually kill your opponent. This ghost thief build is 100% stealth and can still kill you. That’s absurdly broken.

I disagree. A 3s window to kill an attacker with a host of evades and teleports before they go back into stealth for long periods of time is not a well balanced mechanic. Stealth stacking should be removed. At least then stealth builds would have to “come up for air” every few seconds allowing some counter play. It also eliminates the Ghost Thief.

FYI A visible ghost thief is in trouble because they have to burn there only 2 dodges to generate caltrops and they don’t have room on there utility bar for teleports (traps are in that place)

A ghost thief literally has to burn his steal, both dodge rolls, and all his utility to take a target down. If this damage is cleansed or stun break is used then the trapper looses the kill entirely and the target runs away.

So in short conclusion a trapper thief has to burn his entire repertoire of utlity and dodge rolls, and steal to take down 1 target, how is that OP?

If he kills an entire group of players that refused to bring heal/cleanse support then you all deserve to die.

It’s WORLD vs WORLD vs WORLD not 5v5 sPvP. It’s not fair and it’s not an even matched game mode, it’s survival of the fittest.

BRING A BIGGER ARMY!

How can you defend a build that can damage you without breaking stealth. Its fundamentally broken. Either no one should bring stealth when you deal damage, or everyone should. None of this bullkitten where everyone but thieves have to follow the game mechanics.

i face 1 to in edge of the mist and i think he use

sup rune off trapper to
1. +25 Condition Damage
2. The duration of conditions you apply last 10% longer.
3. +50 Condition Damage
4. When you use a trap skill, you gain 2 seconds of superspeed.
5. +100 Condition Damage
6. Gain 2 seconds of stealth when using a trap skill.

its a total pain in the butt to deal with those guys
and am sure with the high con damage builds and endless stealth allot off players gonna use this

gonna be a total broken game with allot off rage soon

Rambitshouse.8712:

Choppy.4183:

Rambitshouse.8712:

You wouldn’t happen to be in T4 and captured SBI’s Quentin Lake Tower this morning?

If so, I’m sorry

Oh sure, NOW you’re visible…. :P

Packit’s right though. He solved your problem for only 10 supply.

lol was never killed though

@Rambitshouse, what build, traits and gear are you using? I can’t seem to find a good combi to play around with once in a while

robertjan.2197:

Rambitshouse.8712:

Choppy.4183:

Rambitshouse.8712:

You wouldn’t happen to be in T4 and captured SBI’s Quentin Lake Tower this morning?

If so, I’m sorry

Oh sure, NOW you’re visible…. :P

Packit’s right though. He solved your problem for only 10 supply.

lol was never killed though

@Rambitshouse, what build, traits and gear are you using? I can’t seem to find a good combi to play around with once in a while

In game mailed you build

Go forth, DERAIL THE KARMA TRAINS.

Siphon.8405:

FYI A visible ghost thief is in trouble because they have to burn there only 2 dodges to generate caltrops and they don’t have room on there utility bar for teleports (traps are in that place)

A ghost thief literally has to burn his steal, both dodge rolls, and all his utility to take a target down. If this damage is cleansed or stun break is used then the trapper looses the kill entirely and the target runs away.

So in short conclusion a trapper thief has to burn his entire repertoire of utlity and dodge rolls, and steal to take down 1 target, how is that OP?

3k armor

20k HP

Shortbow

They team up pretty often now. Either you die in 2 or 3 ticks or you cleanse the burst of the first one and the second one kills you.

(And please don’t tell me now that it’s okay to lose a 1v2. That’s not the point!)

my thief is main i have played ghost thief its fun for about 5 mins.

people say its easy to counter, yes its but its not easy to kill.
i cant kill 1 on my thief i can pop him out of stealth i can stay alive, but i cant finish him its basically a endless fight. (didnt use stealth traps)

why this thief is so kittened is obvious in my eyes traps need to reveal you when triggered. especially now when anet decided that traps wherent enough of a treat yet that they boosted em.
the whole build can stay the same only thing anet has to do is:
A: change trapper runes
B: add reveal on triggering any trap.

so simple.

i hate thief nerfs since i think this class is really underpowered in WvW section (if we dont include roaming) but this ghost thief is just beyond boring..
imagine if ranger and DH’s could do the same u would have had 3 perma stealth classes everywhere ramming traps down on high traffic roads waiting for some1 to pass and almost instantly die.

yay the fun, comon lets get real and just fix it.

Siphon.8405:

Straegen.2938:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Stealth is fine when you are forced to reveal yourself to actually kill your opponent. This ghost thief build is 100% stealth and can still kill you. That’s absurdly broken.

I disagree. A 3s window to kill an attacker with a host of evades and teleports before they go back into stealth for long periods of time is not a well balanced mechanic. Stealth stacking should be removed. At least then stealth builds would have to “come up for air” every few seconds allowing some counter play. It also eliminates the Ghost Thief.

FYI A visible ghost thief is in trouble because they have to burn there only 2 dodges to generate caltrops and they don’t have room on there utility bar for teleports (traps are in that place)

A ghost thief literally has to burn his steal, both dodge rolls, and all his utility to take a target down. If this damage is cleansed or stun break is used then the trapper looses the kill entirely and the target runs away.

So in short conclusion a trapper thief has to burn his entire repertoire of utlity and dodge rolls, and steal to take down 1 target, how is that OP?

If he kills an entire group of players that refused to bring heal/cleanse support then you all deserve to die.

It’s WORLD vs WORLD vs WORLD not 5v5 sPvP. It’s not fair and it’s not an even matched game mode, it’s survival of the fittest.

BRING A BIGGER ARMY!

huh?
trapper thief needs only 1 trap, caltrops (or w/e name is) and then u have 1 slot free for anything
if u reveal a thief by standing in his blackpowder and he dies from this little time not being able to stealth he is doing something wrong.

cus he suppose to have all skills up (get away/heal skills/dodges) and hes suppose to have massive HP/Armor rate to not get instagibbed cus huehue we only need condi dmg for rest we stack vit/toughness.

so dunno about you but ghost thief is really easy to play u just cant chase people like daredevil thiefs. u just lurk somewhere and wait for idiot to pass by.

Siphon.8405:

Straegen.2938:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Stealth is fine when you are forced to reveal yourself to actually kill your opponent. This ghost thief build is 100% stealth and can still kill you. That’s absurdly broken.

I disagree. A 3s window to kill an attacker with a host of evades and teleports before they go back into stealth for long periods of time is not a well balanced mechanic. Stealth stacking should be removed. At least then stealth builds would have to “come up for air” every few seconds allowing some counter play. It also eliminates the Ghost Thief.

FYI A visible ghost thief is in trouble because they have to burn there only 2 dodges to generate caltrops and they don’t have room on there utility bar for teleports (traps are in that place)

A ghost thief literally has to burn his steal, both dodge rolls, and all his utility to take a target down. If this damage is cleansed or stun break is used then the trapper looses the kill entirely and the target runs away.

So in short conclusion a trapper thief has to burn his entire repertoire of utlity and dodge rolls, and steal to take down 1 target, how is that OP?

If he kills an entire group of players that refused to bring heal/cleanse support then you all deserve to die.

It’s WORLD vs WORLD vs WORLD not 5v5 sPvP. It’s not fair and it’s not an even matched game mode, it’s survival of the fittest.

BRING A BIGGER ARMY!

It is not overpowered, it is the fact they can remain stealthed while dishing out condi damage, that is the issue. Completely broken.

Remember the countless threads about certain people “hacking” under map to kill people? I consider this being the same.

Siphon.8405:

FYI A visible ghost thief is in trouble because they have to burn there only 2 dodges to generate caltrops and they don’t have room on there utility bar for teleports (traps are in that place)

A ghost thief literally has to burn his steal, both dodge rolls, and all his utility to take a target down. If this damage is cleansed or stun break is used then the trapper looses the kill entirely and the target runs away.

So in short conclusion a trapper thief has to burn his entire repertoire of utlity and dodge rolls, and steal to take down 1 target, how is that OP?

If he kills an entire group of players that refused to bring heal/cleanse support then you all deserve to die.

It’s WORLD vs WORLD vs WORLD not 5v5 sPvP. It’s not fair and it’s not an even matched game mode, it’s survival of the fittest.

BRING A BIGGER ARMY!

Highlighted in bold what I’m responding to specifically but quoted the entire comment since it’s also relevant.

It’s not OP. It’s mechanically broken.

As you’ve stated, you need to burn your entire repertoire to kill someone. It would be OP if it only required one skill, like Steal, to kill someone, while still having access to a plethora of other deadly skills. That, on top of being highly mobile with high sustainability, etc. etc. (having too many good things with too few weaknesses).

It’s broken because it exploits the stealth mechanic (which in GW2, functions poorly to begin with) by denying opponents the ability to see, predict and react while still punishing them with high condition dots. You have no clue where your target is, if you’re hitting them or if they’re about to hit you. There are ways to prevent them from staying in stealth but those options are easily avoidable for the Thief if they’re not completely stupid.

The build isn’t OP because it has a high condition burst. Lots of classes can do this, trapper Ranger being a good example. You need to burn a lot of utilities and skills and you sacrifice defensive skills for offensive ones. The difference is that you can see the Ranger, you can react, predict and counter. With ghost Thief, you don’t have that and that is absolutely broken.

If only there was something you could buy in WvW that would allow you to reveal a Thief when it’s triggered and safeguard yourself from getting hit by his/her traps, ect…

Or certain skills/abilities that would grant you a way of clearing harmful conditions or not being able to be tripped/knock downed…

Or a way to break a Thieves stealth by standing in something he/she uses to gain stealth, hmmm….

But none of that exists, so yeah, broken class, OP, needs nerf, pls fix nao…

Odokuro.5049:

If only there was something you could buy in WvW that would allow you to reveal a Thief when it’s triggered and safeguard yourself from getting hit by his/her traps, ect…

Or certain skills/abilities that would grant you a way of clearing harmful conditions or not being able to be tripped/knock downed…

Or a way to break a Thieves stealth by standing in something he/she uses to gain stealth, hmmm….

But none of that exists, so yeah, broken class, OP, needs nerf, pls fix nao…

ikr? Popping a stealth trap everytime I stop running outside ouf a tower/keep, while switching specs to have reveal, extra condi removal, extra stunbreaks and whatnot, just to have means of defending myself against ONE build is absolutely fine. Absolutely, these people need to up their game, an obvious l2p case.

I agree. The condition damage it does is unbelievable. It WILL kill you if you dont have condi-clear and they don’t even leave stealth for it. You just start taking massive damage and it looks like there’s no one around you.

Siphon.8405:

Straegen.2938:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Stealth is fine when you are forced to reveal yourself to actually kill your opponent. This ghost thief build is 100% stealth and can still kill you. That’s absurdly broken.

I disagree. A 3s window to kill an attacker with a host of evades and teleports before they go back into stealth for long periods of time is not a well balanced mechanic. Stealth stacking should be removed. At least then stealth builds would have to “come up for air” every few seconds allowing some counter play. It also eliminates the Ghost Thief.

FYI A visible ghost thief is in trouble because they have to burn there only 2 dodges to generate caltrops and they don’t have room on there utility bar for teleports (traps are in that place)

A ghost thief literally has to burn his steal, both dodge rolls, and all his utility to take a target down. If this damage is cleansed or stun break is used then the trapper looses the kill entirely and the target runs away.

So in short conclusion a trapper thief has to burn his entire repertoire of utlity and dodge rolls, and steal to take down 1 target, how is that OP?

If he kills an entire group of players that refused to bring heal/cleanse support then you all deserve to die.

It’s WORLD vs WORLD vs WORLD not 5v5 sPvP. It’s not fair and it’s not an even matched game mode, it’s survival of the fittest.

BRING A BIGGER ARMY!

You need to watch Hollow Man.

Choppy.4183:

Rambitshouse.8712:

You wouldn’t happen to be in T4 and captured SBI’s Quentin Lake Tower this morning?

If so, I’m sorry

Oh sure, NOW you’re visible…. :P

Packit’s right though. He solved your problem for only 10 supply.

Unless its a perma stealth trap. lol problem not solve.

Absurd.2947:

Odokuro.5049:

If only there was something you could buy in WvW that would allow you to reveal a Thief when it’s triggered and safeguard yourself from getting hit by his/her traps, ect…

Or certain skills/abilities that would grant you a way of clearing harmful conditions or not being able to be tripped/knock downed…

Or a way to break a Thieves stealth by standing in something he/she uses to gain stealth, hmmm….

But none of that exists, so yeah, broken class, OP, needs nerf, pls fix nao…

ikr? Popping a stealth trap everytime I stop running outside ouf a tower/keep, while switching specs to have reveal, extra condi removal, extra stunbreaks and whatnot, just to have means of defending myself against ONE build is absolutely fine. Absolutely, these people need to up their game, an obvious l2p case.

It’s almost if Ghost Thieves are the only ones to make use of:

1. Conditions
2. CC
3. Stealth

Odokuro.5049:

Absurd.2947:

Odokuro.5049:

If only there was something you could buy in WvW that would allow you to reveal a Thief when it’s triggered and safeguard yourself from getting hit by his/her traps, ect…

Or certain skills/abilities that would grant you a way of clearing harmful conditions or not being able to be tripped/knock downed…

Or a way to break a Thieves stealth by standing in something he/she uses to gain stealth, hmmm….

But none of that exists, so yeah, broken class, OP, needs nerf, pls fix nao…

ikr? Popping a stealth trap everytime I stop running outside ouf a tower/keep, while switching specs to have reveal, extra condi removal, extra stunbreaks and whatnot, just to have means of defending myself against ONE build is absolutely fine. Absolutely, these people need to up their game, an obvious l2p case.

It’s almost if Ghost Thieves are the only ones to make use of:

1. Conditions
2. CC
3. Stealth

To this degree? Yes, they are

Absurd.2947:

Or certain skills/abilities that would grant you a way of clearing harmful conditions or not being able to be tripped/knock downed…

Or a way to break a Thieves stealth by standing in something he/she uses to gain stealth, hmmm….

The uptime on CC breaks and condi clear is MUCH higher on most builds than a rotation on the Ghost Thief.

Standing in BP does nothing other than add another condition to clear. Any decent thief worth his salt turns off auto target and ground targets which avoids triggering the HS shot while stealthed.

Apparently only ANet is buying what the Ghost Thief is selling because if it hit a community vote it would be gone… and gone fast. If they just polled other thieves, it would still lose by a massive margin.

Straegen.2938:

Standing in BP does nothing other than add another condition to clear. Any decent thief worth his salt turns off auto target and ground targets which avoids triggering the HS shot while stealthed.

The range and frontal radius of HS is much bigger than you think it is. It doesn’t require a target to hit…and unless you start HS behind the target (not on top of them, as that will still hit them), you have a much higher chance of being revealed than not. The hit/damage isn’t at the end landing point only, if a target is anywhere between the start of HS and the end of HS, it will be hit.

Turk.5460:

Straegen.2938:

Standing in BP does nothing other than add another condition to clear. Any decent thief worth his salt turns off auto target and ground targets which avoids triggering the HS shot while stealthed.

The range and frontal radius of HS is much bigger than you think it is. It doesn’t require a target to hit…and unless you start HS behind the target (not on top of them, as that will still hit them), you have a much higher chance of being revealed than not. The hit/damage isn’t at the end landing point only, if a target is anywhere between the start of HS and the end of HS, it will be hit.

Why would the thief even HS in your general direction though? Unless you like blink into that smoke field and get lucky.

to op, if you really main thief, u are an idiot. Cus all you need to do to counter play is run withdraw heal.

I make them go every time they try to kill me. <3

Cygnus.6903:

Siphon.8405:

Straegen.2938:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Stealth is fine when you are forced to reveal yourself to actually kill your opponent. This ghost thief build is 100% stealth and can still kill you. That’s absurdly broken.

I disagree. A 3s window to kill an attacker with a host of evades and teleports before they go back into stealth for long periods of time is not a well balanced mechanic. Stealth stacking should be removed. At least then stealth builds would have to “come up for air” every few seconds allowing some counter play. It also eliminates the Ghost Thief.

FYI A visible ghost thief is in trouble because they have to burn there only 2 dodges to generate caltrops and they don’t have room on there utility bar for teleports (traps are in that place)

A ghost thief literally has to burn his steal, both dodge rolls, and all his utility to take a target down. If this damage is cleansed or stun break is used then the trapper looses the kill entirely and the target runs away.

So in short conclusion a trapper thief has to burn his entire repertoire of utlity and dodge rolls, and steal to take down 1 target, how is that OP?

If he kills an entire group of players that refused to bring heal/cleanse support then you all deserve to die.

It’s WORLD vs WORLD vs WORLD not 5v5 sPvP. It’s not fair and it’s not an even matched game mode, it’s survival of the fittest.

BRING A BIGGER ARMY!

You need to watch Hollow Man.

I don’t need to watch anyone play thief, I main thief. I understand the mechanics completely and play trapper thief when I get bored of my D/D build at times.

A class that has nothing else going for it than single target kills and stealth does not need to be nerfed.

Thieves bring absolutely nothing to group mechanics via heals or support

It has been said by many other thief players that it would take a complete rework of the thief class to fix it because if you nerf there ability to stealth they have little build options and there to squishy to be competitive.

It’s a double edged sword, take stealth away now there just a trash class with no group support skills or healing abilities to make up for what you take away.

Famine.7915:

I make them go every time they try to kill me. <3

+1. This person understands how to play there class well and counter play.

Siphon.8405:

Cygnus.6903:

Siphon.8405:

Straegen.2938:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Stealth is fine when you are forced to reveal yourself to actually kill your opponent. This ghost thief build is 100% stealth and can still kill you. That’s absurdly broken.

I disagree. A 3s window to kill an attacker with a host of evades and teleports before they go back into stealth for long periods of time is not a well balanced mechanic. Stealth stacking should be removed. At least then stealth builds would have to “come up for air” every few seconds allowing some counter play. It also eliminates the Ghost Thief.

FYI A visible ghost thief is in trouble because they have to burn there only 2 dodges to generate caltrops and they don’t have room on there utility bar for teleports (traps are in that place)

A ghost thief literally has to burn his steal, both dodge rolls, and all his utility to take a target down. If this damage is cleansed or stun break is used then the trapper looses the kill entirely and the target runs away.

So in short conclusion a trapper thief has to burn his entire repertoire of utlity and dodge rolls, and steal to take down 1 target, how is that OP?

If he kills an entire group of players that refused to bring heal/cleanse support then you all deserve to die.

It’s WORLD vs WORLD vs WORLD not 5v5 sPvP. It’s not fair and it’s not an even matched game mode, it’s survival of the fittest.

BRING A BIGGER ARMY!

You need to watch Hollow Man.

I don’t need to watch anyone play thief, I main thief. I understand the mechanics completely and play trapper thief when I get bored of my D/D build at times.

A class that has nothing else going for it than single target kills and stealth does not need to be nerfed.

Thieves bring absolutely nothing to group mechanics via heals or support

It has been said by many other thief players that it would take a complete rework of the thief class to fix it because if you nerf there ability to stealth they have little build options and there to squishy to be competitive.

It’s a double edged sword, take stealth away now there just a trash class with no group support skills or healing abilities to make up for what you take away.

Just because it would be a lot of work is not a good reason to leave a build in the game that openly breaks game mechanics! Why is it that thief is the only class in the game that is allowed to deal damage without breaking stealth? Answer me that question, or stop defending this build. There is no reason for this build to not be brought into line with other builds and make the traps reveal the thief.

OriOri.8724:

Siphon.8405:

Cygnus.6903:

Siphon.8405:

Straegen.2938:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Stealth is fine when you are forced to reveal yourself to actually kill your opponent. This ghost thief build is 100% stealth and can still kill you. That’s absurdly broken.

I disagree. A 3s window to kill an attacker with a host of evades and teleports before they go back into stealth for long periods of time is not a well balanced mechanic. Stealth stacking should be removed. At least then stealth builds would have to “come up for air” every few seconds allowing some counter play. It also eliminates the Ghost Thief.

FYI A visible ghost thief is in trouble because they have to burn there only 2 dodges to generate caltrops and they don’t have room on there utility bar for teleports (traps are in that place)

A ghost thief literally has to burn his steal, both dodge rolls, and all his utility to take a target down. If this damage is cleansed or stun break is used then the trapper looses the kill entirely and the target runs away.

So in short conclusion a trapper thief has to burn his entire repertoire of utlity and dodge rolls, and steal to take down 1 target, how is that OP?

If he kills an entire group of players that refused to bring heal/cleanse support then you all deserve to die.

It’s WORLD vs WORLD vs WORLD not 5v5 sPvP. It’s not fair and it’s not an even matched game mode, it’s survival of the fittest.

BRING A BIGGER ARMY!

You need to watch Hollow Man.

I don’t need to watch anyone play thief, I main thief. I understand the mechanics completely and play trapper thief when I get bored of my D/D build at times.

A class that has nothing else going for it than single target kills and stealth does not need to be nerfed.

Thieves bring absolutely nothing to group mechanics via heals or support

It has been said by many other thief players that it would take a complete rework of the thief class to fix it because if you nerf there ability to stealth they have little build options and there to squishy to be competitive.

It’s a double edged sword, take stealth away now there just a trash class with no group support skills or healing abilities to make up for what you take away.

Just because it would be a lot of work is not a good reason to leave a build in the game that openly breaks game mechanics! Why is it that thief is the only class in the game that is allowed to deal damage without breaking stealth? Answer me that question, or stop defending this build. There is no reason for this build to not be brought into line with other builds and make the traps reveal the thief.

Stealth stacking has existed since day one just as things This is not a break of game mechancis.

From day one a thief could use things like caltrops while stealthed. Uncatchable has been used by stealthed thieves since day one. This was a design choice given thieves which by design , are stealth reliant.

No other class has a traitline focused on stealth. No other class can cleanse conditions or heal or steal boons are do special attacks only by gaining stealth. There a whole lot of things other classes can not do when stealthed because no other classes have an SA like traitline.

This is a design decision just as mesmer clones was. It not a broken mechanic. It may or may not be a good decision , but that hardly means it a break of game mechanics. The simple fact is if you want stealth you can play a number of classes. If you want to play a class that gets many added benefits from being stealthed you play thief.

@ Stealth and Ghost thief broken:

a) conditions are broken
b) condition gear is broken
c) D/P is broken

Thief is build around stealth, taking it away would destroy the class and in fact it already has been destroyed by the revealed mechanics. Reason why most people don’t seem to use these is because thieves are either condi D/D or D/P. It’s pretty hard to catch a D/P thief, you can try to catch a ghost thief with these skills though (just that ghost thieves are D/P).
Stealth stacking was possible even before, just that not every thief went the cheap route and initiative was more limited, because you could only use 2 full traitlines. Also bound is a plus for those who want to be perma invisible.
D/P is broken, yes. Stealth in this game in general is, but instead of fixing the roots, anet decides to fight powercreep with even more powercreep, but that is evident since June 2015.

OriOri.8724:

Its also incredibly effective, even in the hands of people who have never played thief before. I know some thief playes n the forums here will die before admitting that this build is broken,

It’s not just thief players! Judging by the recent “Balance” patch, it’s the clearly thief mainer, balance developer Karl McLain, who doesn’t think it’s broken either.

Nothing to see here, a developer favours the class. Don’t expect fixes to broken mechanics.

Agreed. Ghost thieves need to go. Of course, every ghost thief player on this thread is going to say it’s not broken or it’s “L2P”, but the truth is they know better than anyone that ghost thieves are broken. They just don’t want them fixed.

Svarty.8019:

OriOri.8724:

Its also incredibly effective, even in the hands of people who have never played thief before. I know some thief playes n the forums here will die before admitting that this build is broken,

It’s not just thief players! Judging by the recent “Balance” patch, it’s the clearly thief mainer, balance developer Karl McLain, who doesn’t think it’s broken either.

Nothing to see here, a developer favours the class. Don’t expect fixes to broken mechanics.

More than that, its that Anet doesn’t care what happens in wvw with their skill balancing. They’ve proven this time and time again.

Stealth needs a complete rework in general, it’s the safest defensive mechanism in the game and easily the worst implemented stealth I’ve seen in any game that isn’t some kind of solo play only game.

I get the feeling that many of the people defending high stealth uptime haven’t played all classes and all weapon sets, there’s a large number of skills that are completely negated by simply being in stealth.

Yes I include stealth camping mesmers, scrappers and other classes.

Here is what I asked in the feedback thread :

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Svarty.8019:

Are Arenanet unwilling/unable to totally rework abilities or just in number tweaking mode?
Does it take the resources of an expansion budget to totally rework an ability?

We’re able, but it is a question of time tradeoffs.
- Tweaking something requires quite a bit of testing to see that it will not have dangerous consequences.
- Re-working something entirely requires even more testing for those dangerous consequences as well as functionality and potential bugs.
If it is needed and we have the time resource then we’ll do a re-work, but we’ll use tweaks when they’re deemed sufficient.

Can you imagine them reworking stealth?! They’re obviously terrified of making this shikittenstorm even worse.

Svarty.8019:

Here is what I asked in the feedback thread:

Svarty.8019:

Svarty.8019:

Are Arenanet unwilling/unable to totally rework abilities or just in number tweaking mode?
Does it take the resources of an expansion budget to totally rework an ability?

We’re able, but it is a question of time tradeoffs.
- Tweaking something requires quite a bit of testing to see that it will not have dangerous consequences.
- Re-working something entirely requires even more testing for those dangerous consequences as well as functionality and potential bugs.
If it is needed and we have the time resource then we’ll do a re-work, but we’ll use tweaks when they’re deemed sufficient.

Can you imagine them reworking stealth?! They’re obviously terrified of making this shikittenstorm even worse.

Its not hard…. unless their code is awfull even to read …
I think they just dont want to change it, and stealth is fine to stack so much until it will be nerfed and will be tranformend in some class expansion.
What is to much its normal at Anet eyes…overall is what makes pvp gameplay suffer.
Anet is great at distracting players from what is really wrong.

babazhook.6805:

OriOri.8724:

Just because it would be a lot of work is not a good reason to leave a build in the game that openly breaks game mechanics! Why is it that thief is the only class in the game that is allowed to deal damage without breaking stealth? Answer me that question, or stop defending this build. There is no reason for this build to not be brought into line with other builds and make the traps reveal the thief.

Stealth stacking has existed since day one just as things This is not a break of game mechancis.

From day one a thief could use things like caltrops while stealthed. Uncatchable has been used by stealthed thieves since day one. This was a design choice given thieves which by design , are stealth reliant.

No other class has a traitline focused on stealth. No other class can cleanse conditions or heal or steal boons are do special attacks only by gaining stealth. There a whole lot of things other classes can not do when stealthed because no other classes have an SA like traitline.

This is a design decision just as mesmer clones was. It not a broken mechanic. It may or may not be a good decision , but that hardly means it a break of game mechanics. The simple fact is if you want stealth you can play a number of classes. If you want to play a class that gets many added benefits from being stealthed you play thief.

Stealth stacking, while some people view it as bullkitten and think it needs to leave, is not breaking game mechanics. Dealing damage in stealth without being revealed is what is breaking the game mechanics. In GW2, dealing damage while stealthed forces you out of stealth and applies revealed. Its part of the “balance” surrounding stealth. Answer me my question. Why is it ok for thieves to be the only class in the game who is allowed to deal damage in stealth without breaking stealth? Why is it that thieves get to ignore this game mechanic, which exists solely for the purpose of balance? Why is it that thieves get to ignore balancing mechanics completely?

OriOri.8724:

Answer me my question. Why is it ok for thieves to be the only class in the game who is allowed to deal damage in stealth without breaking stealth? Why is it that thieves get to ignore this game mechanic, which exists solely for the purpose of balance? Why is it that thieves get to ignore balancing mechanics completely?

Because Karl McLain likes to take it easy.

To Ori Ori rather then cut and paste your post again.

Your response is 100 percent straw man.

You assume what “balancing mechanics” are, frame your question around the assumption that you know what it entails and then posit your question around that false assumption. This is very much like “when will you stop beating your wife” asked of another.

I do NOT agree that the theif the only class that is the only class that can ignore balancing mechanics entirely.

Their are builds far more dangerous than this build. There are mechancis in the game that have more POWER then stealth. The issue with damage from stealth on thief relates more to the fun factor and nuisance factor more then it does to them being OP.

If I take sufficient condition cleanse or high mobility, or something like resistance or use stealth myself (mesmers engineers and the like can do this last as can theives) then this build can all but be ignored.

I can put up close to 100 percent resistance uptime on my warrior, just as example and this build can not touch me.

I have flipped enemy camps on my non stealth thief and simply ignored one of these thieves that was trying to defend it.

That does not suggest the build is OP or that damage from stealth “game breaking” as far as balance goes.

One more time. The thief has ALWAYS been able to stack stealth. The thief has always been able to use things like Caltrops and inflict damage while stealthed. The Thief is th ONLY class that has a traitline related to stealth mechanics and will play differently then other classes due to that. You can not and should not premise an argument on “if no other class can do XXX why should a theif be able to” because no other class is a thief.

Since day 1 when I first rolled up a theif in WvW I could run SR or stack stealth via d/p , go up to an enemy group while stealthed and drop caltrops on them. Can you please direct me to your posts dating back to those early days where you claim this “breaking game mechanics” and or as being OP? The onset of ghost thief is not a result of stacking stealth or being able to do damage from stealth but of all of the things HOT added across the board.

If you want to argue against Ghost Thief use real arguments.

I myself think the reason something needs to be done is due to the fun factor and the furstration the build causes in the player base as a whole. I have made suggestions to address this that would both limit stealth stacking while at the same time ensuring that the thief that uses the SA line or that uses traps, or that use caltrops, or that uses Uncatchable is not comprosmised so as to be made unplayable.

The suggestions of yourself and far to many others will simply limit build diversity and overly affect the thief and “balance” across the board. It would lead to even more “perma dodge thieves” which will be followed by the same voices calling for them to be neutered. It would mean a batch of utilties and traits not being used again which IMHO will make the game worse as a whole and not better.

I can not accept the same voices calling for some of their own utilities and traits being enhanced because “no one uses them” in the very next breath lobbying for traits and utitlities in anothrer profession be changed to the point where no one would use them.

When we speak of that thing called “game balance” we have to realize that issues exist across the board and with all classes and when people lobby for a nerf to a specific classes abilities without recognizing as to how this will affect game balance across the board, then they are being both partisan and biased and this just becames another of those “The class I prefer is garbage and everyone that beats me is OP. Nerf them and give me more” type arguments.

Just as to what I think can work here without overly affecting thief gameplay on thief.

Leave traps as is. Ghost thief can be played without traps. Leave damage from stealth as is via that ONE trap used or confusion on steal via Hidden thief or caltrops or uncatchable.

Front load the benefits of stealth out of the SA line so they are not applying a benefit the longer one stays in stealth. As example the LONGER a thief stays in stealth the more health he gets and the more INI ghet gets out of Shadow Rejuv. The longer he stays in stealth the more conditions cleanses out of SE. Change these so that over a 20 second period they apply the same overall affects but the bulk of the gain made ON entering stealth.

I feel this on its own will affect the Ghost thief as if they will no longer recover health, regain INI or cleanse conditions simply by staying in stealth.

Regarding stealth stacking.

There several options each with upsides and downsides.

1>Add a 1sec ICD to stealth applications. As In If I apply stealth via Smoke field and HS combo I can not apply stealth again for 1 second.

2>Prohibit stacking entirley. You stealth and get 4 seconds. No more added if already stealthed.

3>Turn further stealth applications into a “refresh” of exisiting stealth. As example under the current system one can use Smoke field and HS to add 4 more seconds each time used. Under this method furtehr uses will overwrite the frst stealt application so remaining seconds on it lost.

4>Leave as is . See how the suggested changes as to how Shadow rejuv and SE work first. If the thief can no longer cleanse conditions or heal via rejuv or gain INI every three seconds while stealthed, this might be a big enough hit on the build to limit what they can do.

My own preference is try number 4 first and if this does not address the issue then look at using in conjunction with one of the suggestions to limit the ability to stack stealth.

There are far worst mechanics in WvW then this build. People have already talked about these in other threads. Zerglings are mad that they can’t touch a good theif, while just using mindless steam rolling blob tactics. Yall are better of asking ANet to open up BG for more bandwagoners, then asking for a nerf to this build. Which is really one of the milder builds in WvW atm.

You say I use straw man arguments, when all you can do is deflect and start talking about stealth stacking and how thief has a traitline revolving around stealth. That isn’t the problem here, even though a lot of people do have problems with it. Stealth stacking is irrelevant to thief being allowed to damage you without breaking stealth. End of story. Its broken that thief can damage you without breaking stealth. Plain and simple. Write out all of the long posts you want, it won’t make this a good nor fair mechanic, and it won’t change the fact that thief can ignore this mechanic that was intended to balance stealth.

Ghost thief just shows what an inept job they’ve done in some regards with this game, I remember pre-launch one of the things they banged on about was how lame and broken “permastealth” was in other games and how they were going to solve that, yet they failed so miserably they actually produced a game where there is real permastealth that you never leave even when doing damage, just be thankful these people are programming video games and not software in aircraft, stock exchanges, etc.

zinkz.7045:

Ghost thief just shows what an inept job they’ve done in some regards with this game, I remember pre-launch one of the things they banged on about was how lame and broken “permastealth” was in other games and how they were going to solve that, yet they failed so miserably they actually produced a game where there is real permastealth that you never leave even when doing damage, just be thankful these people are programming video games and not software in aircraft, stock exchanges, etc.

But what if they are? Would explain a lot, to be honest!

Zergs and Ghost thiefs lol

Player is sick of getting chased 20 v 1 so plays Ghost Thief…. Zerg gets tired of not being able to kill someone 20v1, come to forums to let everyone know that Ghost Thief shouldn’t exist. Everyone should play Necros when roaming.

(and yes, I play ghost thief when it gets extremely zergy and sick of getting chased by skillful roamers in groups of 7+, ghost thief atleast lets me counter play the groups or troll a group of 10+ for 5 or so minutes)

The claim made that “stealth stacking” is not what leads to Ghost thief and that rather the ability to inflict damage while stealthed.

The statement is simply wrong.

There are four classes that have inherent access to stealth that being Thief. mesmer, Engineer and Ranger. ALL of them can to various degrees inflict damage while stealthed.

None of them but the thief can stack stealth so they remain stealthed in perpetuity.

(as example I can use sneak Gyro on engineer, load up rocket and flame turret and pain inverter while wearing balthazar runes. I can remain in stealth, apply confusion and fire while my turrets do damage. None of the attacks will break stealth )

The ability to inflict damage while stealthed has been with the game since launch. It not a “fundamental violation of game mechanics” as it has always been there and in fact saw more of it added.

babazhook.6805:

The claim made that “stealth stacking” is not what leads to Ghost thief and that rather the ability to inflict damage while stealthed.

The statement is simply wrong.

There are four classes that have inherent access to stealth that being Thief. mesmer, Engineer and Ranger. ALL of them can to various degrees inflict damage while stealthed.

None of them but the thief can stack stealth so they remain stealthed in perpetuity.

(as example I can use sneak Gyro on engineer, load up rocket and flame turret and pain inverter while wearing balthazar runes. I can remain in stealth, apply confusion and fire while my turrets do damage. None of the attacks will break stealth )

The ability to inflict damage while stealthed has been with the game since launch. It not a “fundamental violation of game mechanics” as it has always been there and in fact saw more of it added.

Ranger only has stealth though blasting (after hot) same with eng for a long time too. Traper runes where not in the game at the start and they use to be a lot worst due to hot dragon hunters having traps but it got nerfed hard. Most of the stealth or how strong stealth is now is mostly due to HoT combos sigils and elite specs. HoT messed up a lot of things and a lot of the balancing in the game is made for before hot there not been a major over all game balancing for every thing for after hot. More of small fixes over a long time and stealth is one of thoughts effect.

What it comes down to is condi do too much dmg when they are stable (stacking poison is way too much for it utility and its %) ghost thief only makes it worst.

Also as things stand ghost thf can kill ppl even if they are watching for it due to being able to hid condi effects such as root. The buffs where too much in the last update. The light field was not enofe and would need to clear at least 3 condis to make it worth going after. Better to have a ele blast frost field with reg on auras.

My only thing to look forward to as things stand is once they add in the next elite spec the thf players who play ghost thf will have to make a hard chose do they keep that 3 dodge and dodge effect with daredevil (hot) or do they run the new one if that new one is more condi and or has a better condi wepon on it because you cant be 2 elite specs at once. This is true for all the “op” hot effects in the game atm though elite specs.

Jski.6180:

babazhook.6805:

The claim made that “stealth stacking” is not what leads to Ghost thief and that rather the ability to inflict damage while stealthed.

The statement is simply wrong.

There are four classes that have inherent access to stealth that being Thief. mesmer, Engineer and Ranger. ALL of them can to various degrees inflict damage while stealthed.

None of them but the thief can stack stealth so they remain stealthed in perpetuity.

(as example I can use sneak Gyro on engineer, load up rocket and flame turret and pain inverter while wearing balthazar runes. I can remain in stealth, apply confusion and fire while my turrets do damage. None of the attacks will break stealth )

The ability to inflict damage while stealthed has been with the game since launch. It not a “fundamental violation of game mechanics” as it has always been there and in fact saw more of it added.

Ranger only has stealth though blasting (after hot) same with eng for a long time too. Traper runes where not in the game at the start and they use to be a lot worst due to hot dragon hunters having traps but it got nerfed hard. Most of the stealth or how strong stealth is now is mostly due to HoT combos sigils and elite specs. HoT messed up a lot of things and a lot of the balancing in the game is made for before hot there not been a major over all game balancing for every thing for after hot. More of small fixes over a long time and stealth is one of thoughts effect.

What it comes down to is condi do too much dmg when they are stable (stacking poison is way too much for it utility and its %) ghost thief only makes it worst.

Also as things stand ghost thf can kill ppl even if they are watching for it due to being able to hid condi effects such as root. The buffs where too much in the last update. The light field was not enofe and would need to clear at least 3 condis to make it worth going after. Better to have a ele blast frost field with reg on auras.

Ranger has stealth via Hunters shot and the Druid version also has a source of stealth. Engineer could also get stealth via the elixir S there since game launch.

Mesmers could always apply damage even when stealthed via clones.

Skills like pain inverter existed since day one as did the Runes that apply a condition via a heal. That builds trying to go this route are not all that effective when compared to the thief is moot when have people trying to claim that "applying damage while stealthed " a violation of game mechanics and or that only a thief can do it.

Suggesting 3 poison and three bleeds off a trap along with its immobile makes that trap OP is simply false. Ranger traps will apply more poison and DH traps more damage outright per use. There other utility skills across other classes that will do more overall damage then needle trap.

babazhook.6805:

Jski.6180:

babazhook.6805:

The claim made that “stealth stacking” is not what leads to Ghost thief and that rather the ability to inflict damage while stealthed.

The statement is simply wrong.

There are four classes that have inherent access to stealth that being Thief. mesmer, Engineer and Ranger. ALL of them can to various degrees inflict damage while stealthed.

None of them but the thief can stack stealth so they remain stealthed in perpetuity.

(as example I can use sneak Gyro on engineer, load up rocket and flame turret and pain inverter while wearing balthazar runes. I can remain in stealth, apply confusion and fire while my turrets do damage. None of the attacks will break stealth )

The ability to inflict damage while stealthed has been with the game since launch. It not a “fundamental violation of game mechanics” as it has always been there and in fact saw more of it added.

Ranger only has stealth though blasting (after hot) same with eng for a long time too. Traper runes where not in the game at the start and they use to be a lot worst due to hot dragon hunters having traps but it got nerfed hard. Most of the stealth or how strong stealth is now is mostly due to HoT combos sigils and elite specs. HoT messed up a lot of things and a lot of the balancing in the game is made for before hot there not been a major over all game balancing for every thing for after hot. More of small fixes over a long time and stealth is one of thoughts effect.

What it comes down to is condi do too much dmg when they are stable (stacking poison is way too much for it utility and its %) ghost thief only makes it worst.

Also as things stand ghost thf can kill ppl even if they are watching for it due to being able to hid condi effects such as root. The buffs where too much in the last update. The light field was not enofe and would need to clear at least 3 condis to make it worth going after. Better to have a ele blast frost field with reg on auras.

Ranger has stealth via Hunters shot and the Druid version also has a source of stealth. Engineer could also get stealth via the elixir S there since game launch.

Mesmers could always apply damage even when stealthed via clones.

Skills like pain inverter existed since day one as did the Runes that apply a condition via a heal. That builds trying to go this route are not all that effective when compared to the thief is moot when have people trying to claim that "applying damage while stealthed " a violation of game mechanics and or that only a thief can do it.

Suggesting 3 poison and three bleeds off a trap along with its immobile makes that trap OP is simply false. Ranger traps will apply more poison and DH traps more damage outright per use. There other utility skills across other classes that will do more overall damage then needle trap.

You leave out the Caltrops that they can spam and apply even though your not moving (should be the effect not just simply apply for standing in it).
3 stack of poison is op when it dose more dmg then bleed nearly doable the amount and has the -33% healing effect.
And when you apply confusion to that from runes and added effects from sigil it all becomes op.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Trap

Please read.

Jski.6180:

babazhook.6805:

Jski.6180:

babazhook.6805:

The claim made that “stealth stacking” is not what leads to Ghost thief and that rather the ability to inflict damage while stealthed.

The statement is simply wrong.

There are four classes that have inherent access to stealth that being Thief. mesmer, Engineer and Ranger. ALL of them can to various degrees inflict damage while stealthed.

None of them but the thief can stack stealth so they remain stealthed in perpetuity.

(as example I can use sneak Gyro on engineer, load up rocket and flame turret and pain inverter while wearing balthazar runes. I can remain in stealth, apply confusion and fire while my turrets do damage. None of the attacks will break stealth )

The ability to inflict damage while stealthed has been with the game since launch. It not a “fundamental violation of game mechanics” as it has always been there and in fact saw more of it added.

Ranger only has stealth though blasting (after hot) same with eng for a long time too. Traper runes where not in the game at the start and they use to be a lot worst due to hot dragon hunters having traps but it got nerfed hard. Most of the stealth or how strong stealth is now is mostly due to HoT combos sigils and elite specs. HoT messed up a lot of things and a lot of the balancing in the game is made for before hot there not been a major over all game balancing for every thing for after hot. More of small fixes over a long time and stealth is one of thoughts effect.

What it comes down to is condi do too much dmg when they are stable (stacking poison is way too much for it utility and its %) ghost thief only makes it worst.

Also as things stand ghost thf can kill ppl even if they are watching for it due to being able to hid condi effects such as root. The buffs where too much in the last update. The light field was not enofe and would need to clear at least 3 condis to make it worth going after. Better to have a ele blast frost field with reg on auras.

Ranger has stealth via Hunters shot and the Druid version also has a source of stealth. Engineer could also get stealth via the elixir S there since game launch.

Mesmers could always apply damage even when stealthed via clones.

Skills like pain inverter existed since day one as did the Runes that apply a condition via a heal. That builds trying to go this route are not all that effective when compared to the thief is moot when have people trying to claim that "applying damage while stealthed " a violation of game mechanics and or that only a thief can do it.

Suggesting 3 poison and three bleeds off a trap along with its immobile makes that trap OP is simply false. Ranger traps will apply more poison and DH traps more damage outright per use. There other utility skills across other classes that will do more overall damage then needle trap.

You leave out the Caltrops that they can spam and apply even though your not moving (should be the effect not just simply apply for standing in it).
3 stack of poison is op when it dose more dmg then bleed nearly doable the amount and has the -33% healing effect.
And when you apply confusion to that from runes and added effects from sigil it all becomes op.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Trap

Please read.

The caltrops that they can spread when dodging are both Visible and have always been that way. They had these since day one.

I concur that all of this “added togther” becomes something more then just one seen in isolation but this is true across every build of every type. Condition builds in general do not work until all of the sources of the same are considered together.

A berserker using last blace so that all rage skills apply bu8rn can be dealt with if it only the burns. When those burns combined with torment or confusion or bleeds on top of that it becomes much more and those zerkers can be sitting in 4k of armor with 27000 health.

Condition builds would not work at all if there not a means to apply all those conditions together otherwise cleanses would enutralize the damage.

Condition rangers and mesmers and necromancers and engineers all work the same way, overwhelmibg you with conditions so that ones defenses overwhelmed. This not specific to the thief and the FACT is that a condion thief who does not park stealth all the time can load on even more conditions then can that Ghost thief. Ghost thief in sacrifices damage output in order to maintain that stealth.

Why is that there little no complaints about the p/d theif that uses the exact same utilities, trapper runes and the needle trap so as to apply even MORE conditions then Ghost thief?

It because p/d thief is not permanently stealthed. It not because he can inflict damage while stealthed or that he can not inflict as much as Ghost thief.

babazhook.6805:

The caltrops that they can spread when dodging are both Visible and have always been that way. They had these since day one.

I concur that all of this “added togther” becomes something more then just one seen in isolation but this is true across every build of every type. Condition builds in general do not work until all of the sources of the same are considered together.

A berserker using last blace so that all rage skills apply bu8rn can be dealt with if it only the burns. When those burns combined with torment or confusion or bleeds on top of that it becomes much more and those zerkers can be sitting in 4k of armor with 27000 health.

Condition builds would not work at all if there not a means to apply all those conditions together otherwise cleanses would enutralize the damage.

Condition rangers and mesmers and necromancers and engineers all work the same way, overwhelmibg you with conditions so that ones defenses overwhelmed. This not specific to the thief and the FACT is that a condion thief who does not park stealth all the time can load on even more conditions then can that Ghost thief. Ghost thief in sacrifices damage output in order to maintain that stealth.

Why is that there little no complaints about the p/d theif that uses the exact same utilities, trapper runes and the needle trap so as to apply even MORE conditions then Ghost thief?

It because p/d thief is not permanently stealthed. It not because he can inflict damage while stealthed or that he can not inflict as much as Ghost thief.

But you can SEE them at all times. The fact alone you can avoid these attks but you cant avoid a ghost thf attks at all because you cant see any tells. If your zerker could stealth things like gun fire would be ungodly strong. If that zerk could stay stealth when using its hit it would be op.
Why is it ok for a thf or any stealth class to stay unseen in effect unkillable when doing there big hits? Why dose a power thf need to show them self to land big power hits? Why are you going out of your way to enplane how its ok that thf can condi and stay stealth but other classes doing condi could some how make it ok but if these classes could stealth they do power dmg and in them self would not stay stealth.
Why should thf traps do no power dmg? Why should other classes traps do dmg? THIS is the only important question you need to ask your self when it comes to asking is ghost thf ok for this game.

Why dose Ether Bolt do dmg images if it did not why dose Confusing Images do dmg and why should it not?

We are talking about core ideals behind the game and counter play in a active dodging game and landing skill shots when you add in stealth to the mix these become all the harder and when you add in a endless stealth effect they become impossible.

Jski.6180:

babazhook.6805:

The caltrops that they can spread when dodging are both Visible and have always been that way. They had these since day one. I am simply stating a FACT which people continue to ignore , that being the ability to inflict damage from stealth has always been in the game and exists across all classes that have stealth.

I concur that all of this “added togther” becomes something more then just one seen in isolation but this is true across every build of every type. Condition builds in general do not work until all of the sources of the same are considered together.

A berserker using last blace so that all rage skills apply bu8rn can be dealt with if it only the burns. When those burns combined with torment or confusion or bleeds on top of that it becomes much more and those zerkers can be sitting in 4k of armor with 27000 health.

Condition builds would not work at all if there not a means to apply all those conditions together otherwise cleanses would enutralize the damage.

Condition rangers and mesmers and necromancers and engineers all work the same way, overwhelmibg you with conditions so that ones defenses overwhelmed. This not specific to the thief and the FACT is that a condion thief who does not park stealth all the time can load on even more conditions then can that Ghost thief. Ghost thief in sacrifices damage output in order to maintain that stealth.

Why is that there little no complaints about the p/d theif that uses the exact same utilities, trapper runes and the needle trap so as to apply even MORE conditions then Ghost thief?

It because p/d thief is not permanently stealthed. It not because he can inflict damage while stealthed or that he can not inflict as much as Ghost thief.

But you can SEE them at all times. The fact alone you can avoid these attks but you cant avoid a ghost thf attks at all because you cant see any tells. If your zerker could stealth things like gun fire would be ungodly strong. If that zerk could stay stealth when using its hit it would be op.
Why is it ok for a thf or any stealth class to stay unseen in effect unkillable when doing there big hits? Why dose a power thf need to show them self to land big power hits? Why are you going out of your way to enplane how its ok that thf can condi and stay stealth but other classes doing condi could some how make it ok but if these classes could stealth they do power dmg and in them self would not stay stealth.
Why should thf traps do no power dmg? Why should other classes traps do dmg? THIS is the only important question you need to ask your self when it comes to asking is ghost thf ok for this game.

Why dose Ether Bolt do dmg images if it did not why dose Confusing Images do dmg and why should it not?

We are talking about core ideals behind the game and counter play in a active dodging game and landing skill shots when you add in stealth to the mix these become all the harder and when you add in a endless stealth effect they become impossible.

And that is exactly what i said. I said the issue is Perma stealth and stealth stacking. People are turning it into condition damage and the ability to apply conditions while stealthed.

A thief that remains in stealth is NOT as deadly as those others. This is a simple fact. That he can not be seens as he does this and can do this all through the battle is the issue. It is stealth stacking and it not so much they are OP as it is the frustration faced by other classes that never see them.

As I suggested in another post. A Person can face a build that kills him 100 times in a day wherein he does not kill it once and not be as upset just because he THINKS he had a chance. A person can be killed once by a Ghost theif and immediately claim it because the build OP.

You bring in ether bolt and the like? What the is the point of that? The Ghost Thief does not use any of his weapons to attack because doing so would reveal him. I have already GIVEN examples of other classes being able to use UTILITY skills while stealthed that do damage that does not reveal them and you just ignored it.

By the way the suggestion there no tells when a ghost thief operates is simply false.

Caltrops leaves a very noticeable and big red circle as does the lesser version on uncatchable.

Thieves stacking stealth have a smoke field tell and when traps are set by a stealthed thief you can see a little puff of smoke.

To traps not doing direct damage this is due to a DESIGN decision and not “broken mechanics”. It was a design decisionbased in part on the thief reliance on stealth and the design vision around the thief.

In other words The DEVS answered this question when they implemented those changes and players have repeated this ad naueseum when the question raised again.
Ranger traps work different then DH traps which work differnt then Thief traps. They are different classes and they are different traps. deal with it.