Guild Wars 2

We are still seeing matches without much balance on a weekly basis. Scores that are all but decided by noon on Saturday. While there are some servers that may fight the good fight all week, this is not what I see on my server nor what I believe it to be across most servers. We all have our share of “fair weather Wv3ers”. This morphs matches from being pretty one sided into boring for one side and frustrating as kitten for the few still trying to fight on the other.

Why not give people more reasons to participate even when they don’t feel their participation is going to impact the winner of the match? I felt that DAoC had one of.. if not THE best system for macro pvp. I loved the ranking system as it kept people out fighting every night even if you knew you were going to be outnumbered.

Currently in Wv3 you have what? Badges? I have stacks of badges just sitting in my bank now. Badges can’t give you anything you couldn’t get with gold. Give people more reasons and I think we will see better fights. They may still be pretty one sided at this point, but at least there will still be fights going all week long.

It gets old taking a guild group into a borderland only to find there are a total of two other people from your server on the entire map. Couple that with the bored enemy force sitting around just waiting for something to light up. Not good mojo for long term enjoyment of the game.

Well I agree with you I have seen a lot of people saying that a ranking system would be a grind, unfair, or power creep.

I don’t know how adding a system that gave you titles, weapon/armor skins, bonus xp from wvw (account bonus), extra silver from wvw, etc. can be considered bad but some do.

Developers said they don’t want any carrot on the sticks.

Even without a reward you can already see how fast people jump ship. HoD is a prime example. #1 to #0 in a week.

Fluff or titles sure anything else absolutely not

Developers can say what they want at release, but the current state of Wv3 does not bode well for the long term health of the game. It would seem that maybe, they might want to review their initial stance. I am not referring to items that increase your abilities, developers never want to get into that unending game of trying to balance gear/skills over and over.. just titles or cool skins etc. They give skins out now for PvE and I thought this was a PvP focused game.

At the end of the day, I am looking for anything that would promote more people to participate in Wv3 on my server. Different people are motivated by different things. If it does not upset the balance of play, why not take a look at it.

ComeAndSee.1356:

Developers said they don’t want any carrot on the sticks.

Even without a reward you can already see how fast people jump ship. HoD is a prime example. #1 to #0 in a week.

Sure they have said that but if they have any sense at all, they’ll learn to add something in the end to keep players around because it’s only like two months after release and already more than enough players have quit due to “done everything in WvW already” or “everything is just on repeat” or “what’s the point anymore.” I myself and what’s left of my guild have thought about switching back to Aion just because it gives more of a sense of reward and accomplishment when pvping then in this game. It’s sad though too because I was hyped up about this game due to Wv3, now it’s looking to be a disappointment.

ComeAndSee.1356:

Developers said they don’t want any carrot on the sticks.

Even without a reward you can already see how fast people jump ship. HoD is a prime example. #1 to #0 in a week.

I under stand this and hopefully a ranking system would be put on the to do list after, guesting (pve’rs need this option), and limiting server transfers to once a week and no longer free or free but with a wvw lock out.

I don’t see how a personal ranking system would be much different than achievements. Both are just some number going up in some stats screen and only represent the amount of time put into the game or a certain activity. Neither stands for quality of play or real measurable dedication to the fights, nor are rewarding.

At one point you just have to get into the mentality of having fun and trying out crazy stuff when you know you are up against impossible odds. Just because you aren’t winning doesn’t mean you can’t have fun in WvW.

@holska

I don’t understand how farming dungeons for armor skins is a measure of skill or rewarding. Different strokes for different folks and all that. Some people like dungeons (and get unique skins for it) some people like achievements and get titles for it. Some people like wvw and as of right now have very little to show for it on a personal level so why not? If it does not compromise balance or game play it should not be a problem.

I’m not a programmer or anything, but in theory, they already have a ranking system for PvP can’t they just incorporate that into WvW somehow?

Samhayn

Some people like dungeons (and get unique skins for it) some people like achievements and get titles for it. Some people like wvw and as of right now have very little to show for it on a personal level so why not? If it does not compromise balance or game play it should not be a problem.

I understand and appreciate that, but I guess my point is that there’s already a bunch of WvW achievements in game that give titles.
And since the OP was raving about a ranking system and I personally don’t see much difference with the achievements, they could also add more achievements and / or new tiers instead of developing a ranking system that basically shows the same thing: a player’s time spent in WvW.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not outspokenly negative or positive about something being changed to incentivize, I’m just doubting if a ranking system would offer that incentive.
Personally I just play for the fun of it so I don’t care either way.

holska.4127:

Samhayn

Some people like dungeons (and get unique skins for it) some people like achievements and get titles for it. Some people like wvw and as of right now have very little to show for it on a personal level so why not? If it does not compromise balance or game play it should not be a problem.

I understand and appreciate that, but I guess my point is that there’s already a bunch of WvW achievements in game that give titles.
And since the OP was raving about a ranking system and I personally don’t see much difference with the achievements, they could also add more achievements and / or new tiers instead of developing a ranking system that basically shows the same thing: a player’s time spent in WvW.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not outspokenly negative or positive about something being changed to incentivize, I’m just doubting if a ranking system would offer that incentive.
Personally I just play for the fun of it so I don’t care either way.

As far as I know, those titles can’t be seen by the opposing servers so what’s the point of having them if your enemies can’t know your prestige? Sure, playing to go up a ranking system isn’t the most healthy of things to do, but it gives a lot of players motivation to play. You can only go so far with a gas tank near E (trying new things as new things will run out, as an above poster said).

maybe if they changed the server ranking system to a player ranking system – it would change how people perceive wvw – for example based on castle caps / kills etc – this way there would not be so much a top server as much as a top player ..then being out manned would actually be a good thing because now you have all the enemies you can shoot, to up your player ranking in wvw. it would certainly break up the monotony of server jumping and bandwagon’ing and give more weight to lower tier servers as now you want to be outnumbered so you can have more enemies to attack to add to your achievements.

Someone explain to me why I should waste my gold on siege weapons for WvW primetime, when all of the points are earned when most of us are sleeping?

They need better rewards for WvW and the badge system is garbage for risk vs reward. I could run Ascalonian for 8 hours and get the same gear that would take 200 hours of WvW.

For my intentions, I am looking for options that might cause more people on my server to participate in Wv3.

If the entire week was somewhat close to friday night in numbers, we would still be likely losing (its been a long drop) but it would be more fun for everyone whether you’re winning or losing. I am getting frustrated repeatedly entering a borderland that is an absolute ghost town. And it can’t be any fun for members of the other servers that basically sit with nothing to do either.

I cannot comment on macro numbers (keep in mind without subscriptions getting accurate information on the health of the game is more difficult), but I am already losing people. Since they don’t have to pay subscriptions, they may pop back in to check in a few weeks or months.. but this is already having an impact on a game that hasn’t been on the shelf very long.

Albane.8367:

Someone explain to me why I should waste my gold on siege weapons for WvW primetime, when all of the points are earned when most of us are sleeping?

They need better rewards for WvW and the badge system is garbage for risk vs reward. I could run Ascalonian for 8 hours and get the same gear that would take 200 hours of WvW.

Really the only reason they have costs on siege equipment is to make you think about dropping them and to make gold not get overinflated in the economy.

Why do ppl need something to show, the fun in killing stuff in PvP is the only that really should matter. If the rest of your servers doesnt show if the match is decide, then the challenge is even better.

Somewhere along the way in the MMO history it seems gaining stuff (items, tittles etc) = fun.

The problem is if you give to much or to good of rewards, then it becomes a farm. Give to little, it becomes abandoned.

For me the real fun in WvW is the great battles, but a lot of people want some tangible rewards, I can respect that. I do think the rewards should be on par with PvE. Maybe have badges a bit more common and unlock some more stuff (even if fluff like skins).

I don’t think anyone will complain if badges had more options to spend it on, such as skins, maybe even have options for WvW theme legendaries.

Elvicof.8263:

Why do ppl need something to show, the fun in killing stuff in PvP is the only that really should matter. If the rest of your servers doesnt show if the match is decide, then the challenge is even better.

Somewhere along the way in the MMO history it seems gaining stuff (items, tittles etc) = fun.

It’s basically a reward for your time by making you more powerful than other players. It’s a “carrot on the stick.”

Play more hours = get stronger = grind = lasts until next content release = repeat.

This games “carrot on the stick” is just getting your perfect look which doesn’t take long. Exotics are practically handed to you as well.

I also wvw for fun, I’m 80 full geared sitting on gold and badges and karma, I still go out to the wvw maps every night.

I just think that human nature when applied to video games makes people want to feel as if they are progressing even if its only an illusion. With that in mind I think a rank system would fill that in nicely with people being able to say hey look at my armor skin or title, look at what I have accomplished. This would also one would hope give people who need to scratch that itch a reason to come out and fight even when there server was losing.

I need 500 Badges of Honor for the Legendary I’m casually going for. You could always do that.

EDIT – I also disagree that human nature applied to video games has anything to do with it. It’s conditioning from other video games constantly hanging a new shiny in front of us that makes us expect a new shiny for doing anything anymore.

Mario never rewarded me with new skins, or better boots to jump higher. He was just Mario, and those games actually ended completely.

I’m not opposed to titles, skins, etc. Those things are fine. However, entitlement is cultural, not biological.

@ComeAndSee, I don’t quite see how adding a ranking system/titles or something along that sort makes anyone “stronger.”

As human beings, we strive for progression and currently, there is hardly any type of progression system. Currently, it’s just you fight two other servers and either win or get dominated, the end. Yes, you can play just for fun but for most, it’s hard to have fun when your server is dominating and the other two servers have quit or vice versa. Yes, there are a rare few that do still manage to have fun continuously but most aren’t like that. I’m not quite sure what needs to be implemented as I am no expert but I do know something needs to happen.

RayneOfChaos.9856:

@ComeAndSee, I don’t quite see how adding a ranking system/titles or something along that sort makes anyone “stronger.”

As human beings, we strive for progression and currently, there is hardly any type of progression system. Currently, it’s just you fight two other servers and either win or get dominated, the end. Yes, you can play just for fun but for most, it’s hard to have fun when your server is dominating and the other two servers have quit or vice versa. Yes, there are a rare few that do still manage to have fun continuously but most aren’t like that. I’m not quite sure what needs to be implemented as I am no expert but I do know something needs to happen.

It creates elitism though. It’s like a K:D score in FPS games. Basically right now everyone is on even terms except for the non-80’s that show up.

I mean, I probably have a 50:1 K:D ratio in WvW because I know how to survive and runaway if I feel like we’re about to be run over.

ComeAndSee.1356:

RayneOfChaos.9856:

@ComeAndSee, I don’t quite see how adding a ranking system/titles or something along that sort makes anyone “stronger.”

As human beings, we strive for progression and currently, there is hardly any type of progression system. Currently, it’s just you fight two other servers and either win or get dominated, the end. Yes, you can play just for fun but for most, it’s hard to have fun when your server is dominating and the other two servers have quit or vice versa. Yes, there are a rare few that do still manage to have fun continuously but most aren’t like that. I’m not quite sure what needs to be implemented as I am no expert but I do know something needs to happen.

It creates elitism though. It’s like a K:D score in FPS games. Basically right now everyone is on even terms except for the non-80’s that show up.

I mean, I probably have a 50:1 K:D ratio in WvW because I know how to survive and runaway if I feel like we’re about to be run over.

Eh that is true but it’s up to the community to perceive if the player’s “elitism” is good or bad. If they think he is a kitten, they will label him as one and somewhat exile him just like they do with kitten commanders lol.

What about something like this:

1st place in the previous week – 30% bonus to server wide Karma, Badges (PvE and PvP), and Experience
2nd place in the previous week – 15%
3rd place – 0%

Albane.8367:

What about something like this:

1st place in the previous week – 30% bonus to server wide Karma, Badges (PvE and PvP), and Experience
2nd place in the previous week – 15%
3rd place – 0%

That could be an option to look at but I currently wouldn’t recommend it with the server transfer issue, especially if people could just transfer into that server and get all the boons from it.

@cog

Human nature is to progress to something more, entitlement is cultural. I ranking system is a form of progression, something to work your way towards. Entitlement would be someone demanding the same title or skins with out ever trying to rank up.

Mario vs Mmo? Different beasts altogether.

I’d really like a non power based system as well as detailed here:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Stiv-s-ultimate-WvW-progression-system/first

I have to say though, what they have is really amazing. I’ve can’t remember the last time I played a game other than Counter Strike for almost nothing but pure enjoyment of the gameplay. Some console games like Dark Souls perhaps but they still have progression in a way.

Adding a boatload of stats and toggle show names would do wonders for a lot of people.

@Samhayn: You haven’t sold me on human nature, but as much as I think that’s a potentially really interesting topic, it starts to get off-topic very quickly. Games are games though, and if one type of game trains you to expect some sort of reward for playing, then we’re back to conditioning as the issue.

Anyway, more custom WvWvW gear or titles would be cool. Maybe custom skins for siege weapons that you/your guild put down, though I have no idea how that would work.

I’ve also wondered why they don’t show enemy names in WvWvW. Was that ever explained? Perhaps the information packets to retrieve/request that information creates more lag than it’s worth? I always thought it’d be cool to recognize names on servers, since you can’t really go by color of gear (though perhaps style of gear might work…ish).

Cogbyrn.7283:

I’ve also wondered why they don’t show enemy names in WvWvW. Was that ever explained?

I personally believe they did it to protect people’s egos. There are masses of people who feel bad when they die and can be identified who may not even WvW due to it. They are shielded by their anonymity. That’s why there should be a toggle in options to choose “show your name in WvW”

Make orbs apply to PvE as well. I don’t care if they swap with out-manned bonus or not, but if they do that might work even better.

That way, if somebody types in guild chat or even Lion’s Arch that we’re about to lose/take an orb it actually has some meaning.

This change should not be made until free transfers have ended.

Stiv.1820:

Cogbyrn.7283:

I’ve also wondered why they don’t show enemy names in WvWvW. Was that ever explained?

I personally believe they did it to protect people’s egos. There are masses of people who feel bad when they die and can be identified who may not even WvW due to it. They are shielded by their anonymity. That’s why there should be a toggle in options to choose “show your name in WvW”

It prevents griefing as well. Lineage 2 is the grand daddy of this games Siege system and there use to be so much trash talk and people taking screen shots and posting on forum of them “owning” people.

No names in wvw because they don’t want to make people feel targeted or singled out. WvW is supposed to be “casual” pvp. At least that was the story during development and beta.

As for rewards yes, a flag with your guild emblem on siege you drop, a different animation for stomp skill, just so many things that could be put in that don’t directly effect the combat power of your character. Just things that are cool and show your dedication to wvw and the game in general.

ComeAndSee.1356:

Stiv.1820:

Cogbyrn.7283:

I’ve also wondered why they don’t show enemy names in WvWvW. Was that ever explained?

I personally believe they did it to protect people’s egos. There are masses of people who feel bad when they die and can be identified who may not even WvW due to it. They are shielded by their anonymity. That’s why there should be a toggle in options to choose “show your name in WvW”

It prevents griefing as well. Lineage 2 is the grand daddy of this games Siege system and there use to be so much trash talk and people taking screen shots and posting on forum of them “owning” people.

It’s part of community building. Server forums, @ posts. You don’t have to click on them. What possible argument is there against a toggle to show name? That you don’t want to see the subject of a thread you don’t have interest in? That’s 90% of current threads for me..

I personally would have no problems if people saw my name. In fact, I would much prefer it.

I collect badges because I like the way they look in my bank. I don’t even spend them, because they’re so pretty. I may one day trade them for a Legendary weapon. Until then the badges are enough. They’re the tally marks on my scabbard that track my kills for me. It isn’t much, but it’s enough progression for me.

Why does everyone need a reward now? WoW totally destroyed gaming. It should be about the competition above all else. Sure, rewards are a nice bit of fluff, but kicking butt and having bragging rights are a helluva lot better than some piece of gear or silly reward. Just my opinion, but I’m sure everyone wanting their carrot will gripe about it.

EDIT: I think showing the person’s name you are fighting in the combat logs would be awesome. Also in emotes.

Well it’s kind of hard to have competition when one server keeps dominating the other two lol, at least imo.

And I wish they showed names as well. Sure, I might have gotten into heated rivalries with other people in other games I have played but it was a lot of fun! That “oh kitten, it’s —-—” tends to give me a boost in energy and looking forward to a good fight. Plus, who knows, it might even lead to making friends on other servers (reason to allow names for the carebears).

They just need to add ranks with titles, like realm ranks from DAoC WITHOUT realm abilities or the skill points. Jade Quarry Sentinel or whatever instead of Invader. That kitten stuff keeps a large group of players (PvPers in particular) in the game.