Guild Wars 2

WvW currently has no goal. The rewards are bad and the most important fact is that you cannot “win”. My proposed option is to add a super boss ( zerg or open world boss worthy) to the map. Now killing this boss should count as your win condition so to speak for wvw and upon doing so actually gives your server some day or week long reward that is worth having such as access to certain areas in the game or something that will affect pve in a way that you would want this buff to handle certain world bosses.

But to make this boss interesting, it should be tied to map dominance. So with the theme of the new desert borderlands. What you could do is make it that this largly complex boss is virtually unkillable without holding objectives. But as you take a keep or a tower, one off its aspects becomes disabled.

For example, holding the fire keep would make you immune to fire damage. So make the boss constantly fill the room with waves of lava or have fire attacks that make it difficult to win without. And for the air keep, perhaps he constantly launches your team into the air and forces them to take fall damage.

The ultimate goal would be to make this boss conquerable with like 66-75% of a map. So each tower you take will lower his defenses or reduce his damage or lower his adds that he spawns in some way that having towers matters. Such as holding the mage tower wont provide him champion mage minions to potect him.

Whats really cool is that this rewards taking and HOLDing keeps, but gives other servers counter play. For example if you finally decide to take on this boss and an enemy server uses the central mega cannon, they can flip the keeps and you sudden defence to fire goes away. But in this reguard, you can still use healing and condi clense and stablity to make up for aspcets you dont have so that you do not need all 3 to defeat this boss.

I just think this would be a fun thing to add and would help pvers find more of a home in wvw and would inscentivise servers for holding and defending and working towards the objective of killing this boss for the grand rewards of some type (perhaps ascended or legendary crafting materials or exotic drops or large wvw reward track points or some other buff that makes other world bosses easier for pvers.

Anwyay these were just my thoughts, hopefully you all find them appealing as well and mabey anet will implement something like this!

TL;DR

Add a world boss based on map control as an ultimate “win” condition for wvw.

So…the motivation to play a competitive PvP gamemode would be to have PvE in the end?

No PvE please, that’s what Blizzard does to entice their players to PvP. Result was everybody just avoided each other for the sake of faster rewards.

People who really enjoy doing WvW enjoy killing people, busting defended waypoints, and doing things that are actually hard such as fighting outnumbered and winning. What we need here is something like DAOC’s relic raids. While the focus was to sack the relic keeps and steal relics, majority of the time you still battle players for it. And in order for relic keeps to be open for attack, certain amount of towers and keeps had to be taken on the map first. Think capture the flag…but on a large, grand scale. That, would be something worthy as content to add here in GW2.

ESO added relic gameplay, I’m really surprised GW2 haven’t.

I’m a roamer and I guess I don’t care for this mode or idea. I could see it attracting the pve community into wvw, which anet seems to LOVE. However…..it will annoy the true wvw guilds who do it for the glory. Most wvw guilds and roamers play wvw for the glory, not rewards you’ll find. Wiping a guild with friends or spiking a mesmer or thief just seems much more rewarding IMO

Planetside 1 had continent locking, which could be implemented in GW2’s WvW if there were more maps or borderlands to play on.

For those who dont like the idea of “PVE” in the game mode. Taking spvp as an example. The lord on lecacy of the FoeFire is pve. The lords in stronghold are pve, attacking the lords in towers and keeps in wvw is pve.

This idea is more suited for eternal battlegrounds but its basically the idea to make a lord that is for the entire map that actually requires you to have map dominance which is contested over.

Currently WvW is Literally just for those who enjoy fighting for the bragging rights. You win nothing meaningful. Even holding or taking keeps or tower is somewhat meaningless on small servers where its you seiging empty keeps just to lose them later to someone else who happens by an hour later.

Granted i do enjoy the wvw game mode, and typically i do it just to fight people since im not a fan of the conquest format. But IT would be nice to just actually have an endgame in mind for all your hard efforts.

A guild leaderboard for wvw could be a start.

Thought it already gave a bigger kitten at the end of the week for a win!

This was done in DAOC , dungeon called Darkness Falls. I loved it. Especially that you could still fight PvP inside. I often ganked people, sometimes we’d go in a full stealth group and wipe entire zerg, by killing their healers in back when they were engaged with bosses. It was great.

Unfortunately, in this game it would only work in T1, since anywhere pass that results are pre-determined cause coverage / population, the conditions for a win / loss can not be satisfied. I mean, seriously, would you give such rewards and such a world boss to a blob of uplevels AFK spamming 1 key on gates in structures during certain timezones ?

The point of such such a reward would be to give good rewards for the effort, not the lack thereof, and to do that it must be at least a somewhat reasonably even fight.

I would agree with you but server numbers balance is a bag of issues all on its own and hopefully anet addresses it with HOT in some manner. It would mess up any type of change inherently.

Any new change gets compromised because you have to think of the case where one side gets stomped which is not how the game mode is supposed to function.

DF was a great design and worked for DAOC, but it won’t work well here. In DAOC, RvR was the endgame. Here however, the divide between PvE players and WvW players are huge, WvW is not the endgame here. This is likely a decision by Anet to cater to more players and get a slice of that PvE playerbase pie, I don’t blame them.

But anyways, DF worked for DAOC because loot upgrades were great incentives to fight over. For the most part you don’t really need to worry about gear & loot here in WvW because they come by rather easily. This is actually a good thing in my view, one of the things Anet did right.

pointless putting competitive elements in a non-competitive gamemode. first fix the coverage issue.. otherwise you’re just throwing rewards at the server which gets most of them anyways.

Agreed.

Warhammer online’s Rvr had it’s purpose, you locked zones to raid the capital. That’s a reason why you did it, it was a goal to look forward to. In Wvsw there is no point, would be great if they atleast did something. I mean right now… what’s the point?

People that is against this, not sure why you would be against having a common goal for everyone to try and achieve, it will still be casual friendly, you can still roam, and do what you want to do.

If this or something like this was implemented, you would see more people play this game mode. But it’s been 3 years, doubt they will do anything.

gavyne.6847:

ESO added relic gameplay, I’m really surprised GW2 haven’t.

GW2 did have it before ESO. It was broken, Anet disabled it, promised to return the feature, went completely quiet about it… then introduced the ruins and quietly wiped all trace of the orbs ever existing.

The area behind north camp was once a big ramp with guard NPCs, holding an orb that you had to carry to bay (cant remember if it was hills as well). That “relic” is part of the reason borders look like they do.

I consider the placement at the end of the week my “win”
1rst “yay we won”
2nd “mmm ok we didn’t lose”
3rd “grr”
although if they included a prize at the end of each week it might be a way of rewarding defenders – currently the K trainers reap the most reward for participating as far as prizes go – handy for papering things but if no one sticks around to defend the ppt impact is minimal.

aaaaaah – TROPHIES FOR THE GUILD HALL -

you would need the constant loot drops to keep the fair weathers and pugs but having a big piece of loot and a trophy at the end might encourage them to actually defend or something – especially if it was something based on how well you placed at the end of the week

What do you mean you cannot “win”? You win or lose every week, that is what the score is for. The rewards are garbage but you still win or lose every week.

Winning is why we are on top :
https://leaderboards.guildwars2.com/en/na/wvw

http://mos.millenium.org/eu/matchups/medals

Qazmodon.1823:

I consider the placement at the end of the week my “win”
1rst “yay we won”
2nd “mmm ok we didn’t lose”
3rd “grr”
although if they included a prize at the end of each week it might be a way of rewarding defenders – currently the K trainers reap the most reward for participating as far as prizes go – handy for papering things but if no one sticks around to defend the ppt impact is minimal.

aaaaaah – TROPHIES FOR THE GUILD HALL -

you would need the constant loot drops to keep the fair weathers and pugs but having a big piece of loot and a trophy at the end might encourage them to actually defend or something – especially if it was something based on how well you placed at the end of the week

Having trophies however, would encourage stacking all the best guilds on specific servers and ensuring only certain servers win every week. It would be better to have personal player reward for participation rather than just having it server based, as when you have " server rewards" you encourage all the best players gravitating to the same place to wreck everyone else. It just creates the situation of certain servers always winning and other always losing, not allowing for players to have an enjoyable game experience regardless of server.

In terms of having a designated winner, if this was on the desert maps, you could always have it so you can only win on enemy servers. So in theory all 3 teams could win each week.

How the loot gets sent out would be its own thing. If your server kills the lord ( or if you participated in wvw that week) you could get a token that last for a week for a vender that appears for a week after you kill the super boss to trade in. that could be an option so that everyone would benefit for the kill.

In terms of winning, Yes you do currently win or lose in wvw but it doesn’t have nearly as much satisfaction as spvp because they battle is over such a long period. And while there is ranking systems, it is more of a population measure ( other issue entirely) . It doesn’t feel as meaningful to win ( at least to me). Also you can argue that way that wvw is just scaled up spvp. And i am still not the biggest fan of the conquest format.

I just thought this idea might add a new aspect for people who are not as hardcore wvw to enjoy. and to give players additional meaning and purpose behind taking this tower than for a few points that get added to a score.

We don’t need more PvE.

We need less siege, less PvE, revert stab changes, and limit rally mechanic.
Then they can work on rewards and achievements that are meaningful.

Rewards should go to the losers for having to put up with being outnumbered 90% of the time and still toughing it out.

Dawdler.8521:

gavyne.6847:

ESO added relic gameplay, I’m really surprised GW2 haven’t.

GW2 did have it before ESO. It was broken, Anet disabled it, promised to return the feature, went completely quiet about it… then introduced the ruins and quietly wiped all trace of the orbs ever existing.

The area behind north camp was once a big ramp with guard NPCs, holding an orb that you had to carry to bay (cant remember if it was hills as well). That “relic” is part of the reason borders look like they do.

I think this is where WvW was lost. When they removed the orbs – and then never put them back. It just showed that they had no interest in putting in the time or effort to fix something, just remove it and be done with it.

The OP’s suggestion would have worked for orbs too.

1. Eliminate the bonuses for owning the orb to prevent the issue of the strong getting stronger and the match snowballing

2. Make it so that you couldn’t just go straight for the orb. You’d have to fight your way there. You’d have to for example own “your side” to even have a chance to get the orb.

And if they couldn’t prevent the hacking well then that’s ridiculous and shows a complete lack of effort to do so on Anet’s part. Heck, without the bonuses, it wouldn’t matter so much even if people did hack it occasionally.

Luthic.7290:

WvW currently has no goal.

Wrong. The goal is to have fun.

There is a goal. It is to hold more keeps, for longer, then the oponent. There is a clear and defines win state. Those statements are both facts. The statements the OP are making, several of them anyway, are wrong. It is difficult to judge if it is out of intentionally AL dishonesty to add more weight to the opinion, or simply a lack of knowledge on the subject. Either way, I think it is a very very bad idea. As I see it, we need less PvE in our WvW.

I would like to see benifits for guilds claiming a camp/tower/keep/castle. For example regular gold gifts in the guild bank for every tick the structure is being held. The guild looses claim when no player from that guild is on the map.

The benifits should be big enouth to make it worth defending for that guild claiming the structure. It should be more more attractive to capture and defend a structure than to capture it, then loose it and recapture it later again.

Those guilds not owning a structure should be eager to capture a structure so they can benifit from it.

On reset every structure should be neutral.

Pro:

• On overstacked servers it will be harder for guilds to get a structure for themselves so they might move to lower tiers.
• Defending and attacking become equally benificial.
• Guilds might participate more in the upgrade and defence of structures
• Arrangements between guilds become essential for the success of a server

Con

• Bad arrangements between guilds can easily lead to disharmony.
• Small guilds have disadvantages against larger guilds.
• Structures may become easy targets when claimed by small/unpopular guilds
• Trolling potential

A wvw victory objective should be a pvp based objective cause that’s what WvW is. This idea would be fine as a map mechanic in Orr or silverwastes. The wvw version of it would be something like accessing a hidden part of the enemy’s citadel to gain a strong reward buff.

lioka qiao.8734:

A wvw victory objective should be a pvp based objective cause that’s what WvW is. This idea would be fine as a map mechanic in Orr or silverwastes. The wvw version of it would be something like accessing a hidden part of the enemy’s citadel to gain a strong reward buff.

Only thing i can think of atm is just implamenting this for the lord of like stonemist castle. The reward would be acutally being able to take it and gettign the extra points for retaining it. But to keep it from snowballing you would have to add a penalty such that the rest of your facilities were more easily taken so that others could flip and take it back. which is what people are not enjoying from what im reading.

Impementing this type of aspect in an actual pve setting would most likely be a checklist of do this then this then this then fight the boss then an actuall give and take and attack and defend which is the aspect that appealed to me more so then the defeat of the boss. IT was having a reward for gaining an advantage and useing that to gain some type of aggregate goal then just… a few points that feel ultimately meaningless to any1 not incredibly dedicated to winning a leaderboard.

From my experince, wvw is fun purely for the combat. taking and holding objectives is just glorified pve unless u actually fight/defend for it. just taking and holding keeps to have more points is not a rewarding aspect of the game to me. I play on a smaller server where towers and keeps can typically be taken without resistance.

TexZero.7910:

We don’t need more PvE.

...

I am getting a bit tired of seeing this line thrown about. There exist lots of PvE in WvW, if you removed it, WvW wouldn’t work at all, since it is designed to be a hybrid between pure PvP and PvE. Remove all guards and lords, and dolyaks and enjoy the map.

What I *would* love to see however is having different maps with different amounts of this so called "PvE". So that players themselves could control how much they wanted to see in a game.

I think *one* map where 3 sides battles over control points to do various things with a huge world boss in the middle, trying to claim the kill could be awesome. But if they made every map like this, I’d be bored to tears.

I also think that having *one* map with no pve creatures AT ALL, not even a keep lord! would be awesome, to have a pure for the fights map. But if they made every map like this, I’d be bored to tears.

wyther.8372:

Rewards should go to the losers for having to put up with being outnumbered 90% of the time and still toughing it out.

There is something very wrong here, when I want to agree with this.

briggah.7910:

Luthic.7290:

WvW currently has no goal.

Wrong. The goal is to have fun.

Have to agree with Briggah here.

"The objective is to win, the goal is to have fun."

And as other point out, the Objective is to win the most points. We can argue if this is interesting or exciting etc, but that is subjective. *personally* I think PPT is boring as heck, but that doesn’t make it a fact, and I can’t speak for everyone else. WvW is a sandbox mode, where you’re supposed to find/make your own fun.

“I am getting a bit tired of seeing this line thrown about. There exist lots of PvE in WvW, if you removed it, WvW wouldn’t work at all, since it is designed to be a hybrid between pure PvP and PvE. Remove all guards and lords, and dolyaks and enjoy the map.”

no problem there, camps would have to generate supplies in towers / keeps directly (while still granting to players) and wvw would play out exactly the same except for the npc you kill before capping and the loot you get. the pve is pretty irrelevant for wvw, the npcs only matter a bit if you are running solo.

wyther.8372:

Rewards should go to the losers for having to put up with being outnumbered 90% of the time and still toughing it out.

^^^^

Yup.

Steelo.4597:

“I am getting a bit tired of seeing this line thrown about. There exist lots of PvE in WvW, if you removed it, WvW wouldn’t work at all, since it is designed to be a hybrid between pure PvP and PvE. Remove all guards and lords, and dolyaks and enjoy the map.”

no problem there, camps would have to generate supplies in towers / keeps directly (while still granting to players) and wvw would play out exactly the same except for the npc you kill before capping and the loot you get. the pve is pretty irrelevant for wvw, the npcs only matter a bit if you are running solo.

You always begin solo if you join an empty border to roam. Which will happen no matter the tier you are in.

Some PvE aspects are needed to keep WvW from being boring to anything but a 50 man zerg or guild raids. NPCs are also critical in giving you warnings about player movement around their camps and keeps. No NPCs at camps mean no one could even try to protect them from small groups, they’ll just flip.

Removing features from a gamemode people enjoy usually isnt a good idea. I have enough reservations about the new border to even consider making WvW glorified sPvP.

The goal in Wvw is that there is no goal? You run and capture objects that you lose shortly after to recapture it again to lose it again and recapture it again, to lose it again. But why? Why defend it? Why capture it?

In warhammer online there was a goal, you had to DEFEND objectives to lock the zone, and when you lock the zone you continue doing the same thing until the whole line of zones are captured, until you finally get a chance to fight in the capitol. You see that was the goal, and that was a fun goal. Sometimes you failed at it, sometimes you won.
But that didn’t matter much. Having a goal for something in mmorpg’s is important.

Imagine Anet takes away Acheivements, story, loot, ascended & legendaries, etc etc and just telling you “Having fun is the main goal”

Until a few days ago i was certain that there was a goal to this mode, when i found out there wasn’t, i doubt i’ll ever return :/ Was it fun? Hell yeah! But now when i know there isnt anything in the end of the tunnel…. i feel meh. The one thing keeping me there is that i havent gotten all poi/vistas/, yeah i’m one of those that can’t leave them there untaken

I hope they one day come to realise that this mode is important, i’m not asking to raid other servers cities, i’m just asking for something, whatever that something is.

We could just make it simple, without adding crappy PvE. Give tokens per win, first gets 3, second gets 2, third gets 1, add a merchant with Ascended and Legendary items. Each item will cost 6-9 tokens per ascended, and maybe 30 per Legendary. It allows us to get our stuff without being forced to do the craptastic PvE, it will take at least 3 weeks of first place for 1 ascended, 10 for a legendary and considerably more if you don’t come first every week. It’s an easy fix and rewards everyone regardless of imbalance between servers, the amount of tokens needed can be changed, I was just throwing numbers out there.

Dawdler.8521:

Steelo.4597:

“I am getting a bit tired of seeing this line thrown about. There exist lots of PvE in WvW, if you removed it, WvW wouldn’t work at all, since it is designed to be a hybrid between pure PvP and PvE. Remove all guards and lords, and dolyaks and enjoy the map.”

no problem there, camps would have to generate supplies in towers / keeps directly (while still granting to players) and wvw would play out exactly the same except for the npc you kill before capping and the loot you get. the pve is pretty irrelevant for wvw, the npcs only matter a bit if you are running solo.

You always begin solo if you join an empty border to roam. Which will happen no matter the tier you are in.

Some PvE aspects are needed to keep WvW from being boring to anything but a 50 man zerg or guild raids. NPCs are also critical in giving you warnings about player movement around their camps and keeps. No NPCs at camps mean no one could even try to protect them from small groups, they’ll just flip.

Removing features from a gamemode people enjoy usually isnt a good idea. I have enough reservations about the new border to even consider making WvW glorified sPvP.

And none of this has any bearing on the fact that i said

“We dont need MORE PvE in WvW”

We legitimately need LESS as to actually actively promote people getting out of the keeps for a change. Make them interact with the map and the players in a meaningful way.

Adding a farce of a “Win-State” determined by killing a PvE mob, does nothing to add to gameplay.

I mean lets look at Eternal Borderland for example. There’s 4 Champions that spawn, Hylek, Harpy, Grub, Arboreal Tree Spirit. How often do people go out of there way to kill these unless there’s absolutely no one around ?

They add no value to gameplay and in fact only take away from it as it requires that people move to places of low traffic and kill a creature who has no impact on the map or the objectives that players should be fighting over.

TexZero.7910:

Dawdler.8521:

Steelo.4597:

“I am getting a bit tired of seeing this line thrown about. There exist lots of PvE in WvW, if you removed it, WvW wouldn’t work at all, since it is designed to be a hybrid between pure PvP and PvE. Remove all guards and lords, and dolyaks and enjoy the map.”

no problem there, camps would have to generate supplies in towers / keeps directly (while still granting to players) and wvw would play out exactly the same except for the npc you kill before capping and the loot you get. the pve is pretty irrelevant for wvw, the npcs only matter a bit if you are running solo.

You always begin solo if you join an empty border to roam. Which will happen no matter the tier you are in.

Some PvE aspects are needed to keep WvW from being boring to anything but a 50 man zerg or guild raids. NPCs are also critical in giving you warnings about player movement around their camps and keeps. No NPCs at camps mean no one could even try to protect them from small groups, they’ll just flip.

Removing features from a gamemode people enjoy usually isnt a good idea. I have enough reservations about the new border to even consider making WvW glorified sPvP.

And none of this has any bearing on the fact that i said

“We dont need MORE PvE in WvW”

We legitimately need LESS as to actually actively promote people getting out of the keeps for a change. Make them interact with the map and the players in a meaningful way.

Adding a farce of a “Win-State” determined by killing a PvE mob, does nothing to add to gameplay.

I mean lets look at Eternal Borderland for example. There’s 4 Champions that spawn, Hylek, Harpy, Grub, Arboreal Tree Spirit. How often do people go out of there way to kill these unless there’s absolutely no one around ?

They add no value to gameplay and in fact only take away from it as it requires that people move to places of low traffic and kill a creature who has no impact on the map or the objectives that players should be fighting over.

You didnt say what I quoted and what I responded to.

Saying it doesnt add to gameplay is like saying meatballs in spaghetti&meatballs doesnt add anything to the meal. Sure you may absolutely love spaghetti and only eat that, but many people like the complete package and no matter how you look at it the meal would be less if you remove them. I cant argue with you there. Maybe for you NPCs doesnt add anything to gameplay.

Personally I think WvW would be empty without them. Yes, even the champions. They are completely pointless and rarely killed, but they make the maps seem more alive rather than just a terrain map with some static objects that’s in the way of players fighting.

TexZero.7910:

I mean lets look at Eternal Borderland for example. There’s 4 Champions that spawn, Hylek, Harpy, Grub, Arboreal Tree Spirit. How often do people go out of there way to kill these unless there’s absolutely no one around ?

We kill hylek and harpy all the time. Now that I think about it we need a champ in dredge too.. Those are all mercenary camps and they help with scouting the maps.

Now grub and tree are different but the grub is considered holy and you should not kill it. :P

TexZero.7910:

They add no value to gameplay and in fact only take away from it as it requires that people move to places of low traffic and kill a creature who has no impact on the map or the objectives that players should be fighting over.

They actually do add value because they help you scout the map. If one of those camps gets flipped chances are the closest camp next to it on your side will be next target.. If you own them and they flip somebody just killed them and will most likely head to your side next..

Dawdler.8521:

TexZero.7910:

Dawdler.8521:

Steelo.4597:

“I am getting a bit tired of seeing this line thrown about. There exist lots of PvE in WvW, if you removed it, WvW wouldn’t work at all, since it is designed to be a hybrid between pure PvP and PvE. Remove all guards and lords, and dolyaks and enjoy the map.”

no problem there, camps would have to generate supplies in towers / keeps directly (while still granting to players) and wvw would play out exactly the same except for the npc you kill before capping and the loot you get. the pve is pretty irrelevant for wvw, the npcs only matter a bit if you are running solo.

You always begin solo if you join an empty border to roam. Which will happen no matter the tier you are in.

Some PvE aspects are needed to keep WvW from being boring to anything but a 50 man zerg or guild raids. NPCs are also critical in giving you warnings about player movement around their camps and keeps. No NPCs at camps mean no one could even try to protect them from small groups, they’ll just flip.

Removing features from a gamemode people enjoy usually isnt a good idea. I have enough reservations about the new border to even consider making WvW glorified sPvP.

And none of this has any bearing on the fact that i said

“We dont need MORE PvE in WvW”

We legitimately need LESS as to actually actively promote people getting out of the keeps for a change. Make them interact with the map and the players in a meaningful way.

Adding a farce of a “Win-State” determined by killing a PvE mob, does nothing to add to gameplay.

I mean lets look at Eternal Borderland for example. There’s 4 Champions that spawn, Hylek, Harpy, Grub, Arboreal Tree Spirit. How often do people go out of there way to kill these unless there’s absolutely no one around ?

They add no value to gameplay and in fact only take away from it as it requires that people move to places of low traffic and kill a creature who has no impact on the map or the objectives that players should be fighting over.

You didnt say what I quoted and what I responded to.

Saying it doesnt add to gameplay is like saying meatballs in spaghetti&meatballs doesnt add anything to the meal. Sure you may absolutely love spaghetti and only eat that, but many people like the complete package and no matter how you look at it the meal would be less if you remove them. I cant argue with you there. Maybe for you NPCs doesnt add anything to gameplay.

Personally I think WvW would be empty without them. Yes, even the champions. They are completely pointless and rarely killed, but they make the maps seem more alive rather than just a terrain map with some static objects that’s in the way of players fighting.

Again please explain how adding a “Raid like NPC” for a win condition is needed for a large scale Tower Defense mode ?

Because i’ve yet to see any compelling argument for adding this as the OPs nonsensical claim about their being no “Win-State” was already debunked.

There are clear Win conditions in the mode, there’s clear ways to play the mode. Either you PPT till your Karma levels are over 9000 or you go out there to have good fights. Pretty sure no legitimate players head into WvW for the compelling PvE content.

joneirikb.7506:

TexZero.7910:

We don’t need more PvE.

…

I am getting a bit tired of seeing this line thrown about. There exist lots of PvE in WvW, if you removed it, WvW wouldn’t work at all, since it is designed to be a hybrid between pure PvP and PvE. Remove all guards and lords, and dolyaks and enjoy the map.

Well, be tired of it then, because I agree that we do not need more PvE in WvW. It seems to me you are addressing it as if folks are suggesting they remove the lords we have now.

There is a huge difference between someone pointing out that they do not want more PvE and asking to remove what we do have.

Personally, I think the PvE as far as camps and keeps go is fine, but I do not really want more PvE.

coglin.1867:

joneirikb.7506:

TexZero.7910:

We don’t need more PvE.

…

I am getting a bit tired of seeing this line thrown about. There exist lots of PvE in WvW, if you removed it, WvW wouldn’t work at all, since it is designed to be a hybrid between pure PvP and PvE. Remove all guards and lords, and dolyaks and enjoy the map.

Well, be tired of it then, because I agree that we do not need more PvE in WvW. It seems to me you are addressing it as if folks are suggesting they remove the lords we have now.

There is a huge difference between someone pointing out that they do not want more PvE and asking to remove what we do have.

Personally, I think the PvE as far as camps and keeps go is fine, but I do not really want more PvE.

My apologies for that, I quoted a random example of this, and didn’t read the wording properly. I don’t really have a problem with the quote as it stands with “We don’t need more PvE”. I meant to quote and comment on the general stance that all PvE should be removed from the maps.

The current balance is pretty nice. Some could be moved about a bit, some areas could get less or more etc. I certainly agree that all the random deers and wolves etc spread around could be green/friendly to everyone, or just ambient creatures. To avoid random aggros, rallies, and keep having wolves nibbing you in the heels to slow you down etc.

But I do like many of the things like the random champions and veterans, the ghost event at the south ruins, the harpies and stuff. Gives you something to do when the map is quiet. Gives home BL defenders something to poke at while waiting for an incursion etc. And most of them are so out of the way that they don’t bother people in most situations.