Guild Wars 2

I’m contemplating buying a commander tag to help coordinate my guild in WvW but I’m afraid with my current build it may not work out since I play with full berserker’s gear playing a long ranged support build favouring damage over control because I have trouble fighting in the middle of a battle in melee range. I’m pretty experienced in WvW, I know how to stay away from damage and to position myself and not be the first to die, however I’m afraid that because of this playstyle I use it will damage the performance a group following will have.

Does anyone else here playing as a commander roll glass cannon, and what advice would you have?

I play full glass cannon thief and have no issues, but then I tend to stealth and start killing in the middle or back of an enemy zerg causing them to lose formation and giving opportunities for others to pick off panicking players.

You’ll get a lot of people telling you not to bother for whatever reason.

But really, it comes down to just how good you are as a glass cannon.
I run glass cannon equipment more often than not in WvW and I seldom felt like it was a hindrance to my ability to command. But Mesmers have a lot of extra tricks to stay alive regardless of their stats.

Basically,
As long as you know how to not die for as long as possible, you should be fine.

if commander push, i follow
if commander say push and he stay back ,i go behind him
I don’t follow only warriors / guardians commanders

I’ve been wondering this as well. Its been a long grind and I’ve been toying with the notion of going in as a glass cannon thief CO, as he is my main. I’m curious as to what others have to say about this topic.

The people I play with pretty much expect a commander to be able to yell LEEEERROY, walk that walk and survive it. You’re not going to be much of a commander if you’re constantly running back to the fight, from a waypoint.

I’m about to buy the commander tag for my mesmer and I plan to change to the Cathedral of Verdance clothing set.

Personally, I believe that the best commanders are leading, not staying in the back. I am always behind my commander, following him in order to flank or whatever tactic he may be trying to achieve. If he stays back, it means the battles is not favorable, and we just need to play cautiously, so I will stay back with him.

With that being said, I have seen one commander that mained a thief for a while, but then switched to a warrior for more survivability. The same for my current commander that I follow, he has a staff ele, warrior, and now and guardian, and he favors the warrior and guardian because his play style is to crash into enemy zergs, not stay back. I have a commander tag on my necro, but he can stay alive as long or sometimes longer than a lot of heavies with the way I build him.

Honestly, it all depends on your tactics as a commander. If you like to bombard from afar and want your followers to do the same, then glass cannon is no problem. However, if your strategy consists of crashing, then you will probably have a hard time IMO.

I would generally advise against it, but it’s your gold and your game time so do whatever you want ^^ Just be sure you have fun with it :P

Catisa.6507:

I play full glass cannon thief and have no issues, but then I tend to stealth and start killing in the middle or back of an enemy zerg causing them to lose formation and giving opportunities for others to pick off panicking players.

lol @ glass canon thief. nobody doesn’t play a glass canon thief. that invis is way way better than any armor.

vespers.1759:

lol @ glass canon thief. nobody doesn’t play a glass canon thief. that invis is way way better than any armor.

Yes invisibility would save you when 2 zergs of 50 players collide.
Nobody will hit you, because you are invisible, and you are imune at aoe.
Specialy with 1900 armor /12000 hp (glass cannon thief)

One of our main commanders is a glass cannon thief, he has no issues diving in and staying alive. As long as you can stay alive deep in a big fight go ahead, but remember that if you die, your zerg will usually panic and wipe.

Legit questions, what tier do you play in and what class are you OP?

Commanding in one tier is a lot different to commanding with another. Higher tier play often requires someone at the front leading the zerg train in the middle of a battle, and if you’re playing a glass on the front lines you’ll just go down repeatedly, and be more of a hindrance then a help. If it’s a lower tier you’ll be fine to sit at the back and pew pew.

That being said, I used to do a similar thing on my staff ele, but instead got it a full set of PTV gear to use. Look here and find out what temple karma merchants sell which pieces of PTV gear for you to buy, then get PTV trinkets from the Temple of Grenth, and then run the Ascalon Catacombs dungeon to get the rest of the PTV gear.

Or use your badges, but wouldn’t be amazed if they’re part of any WvW ascended gear recipes that gets implemented.

Just have to remember that a dead commander can’t command.

vespers.1759:

Rayya.2591:

vespers.1759:

lol @ glass canon thief. nobody doesn’t play a glass canon thief. that invis is way way better than any armor.

Yes invisibility would save you when 2 zergs of 50 players collide.
Nobody will hit you, because you are invisible, and you are imune at aoe.
Specialy with 1900 armor /12000 hp (glass cannon thief)

people don’t usually drop AoE on themselves or behind their zerg. and i think there’s enough videos out there of thiefs running amok in zergs to know it can be done… easily.

L2P your faceroll class.

Those are terrible zergs.
It takes 1 (One) competent player in the entire group to kitten up that thief’s day.

Florgknight.1589:

Does anyone else here playing as a commander roll glass cannon, and what advice would you have?

If you plan on small ops with a tag then glass + high mobility is fine. Also since no one has mentioned it yet, blue hats render first so expect to be focused. Thus leading into large fights you want as much survivability as possible.

EnRohbi.2187:

vespers.1759:

Rayya.2591:

vespers.1759:

lol @ glass canon thief. nobody doesn’t play a glass canon thief. that invis is way way better than any armor.

Yes invisibility would save you when 2 zergs of 50 players collide.
Nobody will hit you, because you are invisible, and you are imune at aoe.
Specialy with 1900 armor /12000 hp (glass cannon thief)

people don’t usually drop AoE on themselves or behind their zerg. and i think there’s enough videos out there of thiefs running amok in zergs to know it can be done… easily.

L2P your faceroll class.

Those are terrible zergs.
It takes 1 (One) competent player in the entire group to kitten up that thief’s day.

Agreed, those are the true definition of zergs – unorganized willy nilly chaos.

Try that in a fight against an organized guild group and you’ll get smushed.

Personally, I hate following any commander who isn’t a walking tank. The commanders role isn’t really to dish out damage. Their primary role is to scope the battlefield, decide upon tactics, dictate group movement, call for coordinated group actions, etc. you need to have a ton of survivability to do that; the more time you’re spending trying to stay alive/dps, the less time you’re thinking about the battlefield as a whole.

EnRohbi.2187:

vespers.1759:

Rayya.2591:

vespers.1759:

lol @ glass canon thief. nobody doesn’t play a glass canon thief. that invis is way way better than any armor.

Yes invisibility would save you when 2 zergs of 50 players collide.
Nobody will hit you, because you are invisible, and you are imune at aoe.
Specialy with 1900 armor /12000 hp (glass cannon thief)

people don’t usually drop AoE on themselves or behind their zerg. and i think there’s enough videos out there of thiefs running amok in zergs to know it can be done… easily.

L2P your faceroll class.

Those are terrible zergs.
It takes 1 (One) competent player in the entire group to kitten up that thief’s day.

how would you know? when i played on dragonbrand? you just stood in L.A. all day…

vespers.1759:

EnRohbi.2187:

vespers.1759:

Rayya.2591:

vespers.1759:

lol @ glass canon thief. nobody doesn’t play a glass canon thief. that invis is way way better than any armor.

Yes invisibility would save you when 2 zergs of 50 players collide.
Nobody will hit you, because you are invisible, and you are imune at aoe.
Specialy with 1900 armor /12000 hp (glass cannon thief)

people don’t usually drop AoE on themselves or behind their zerg. and i think there’s enough videos out there of thiefs running amok in zergs to know it can be done… easily.

L2P your faceroll class.

Those are terrible zergs.
It takes 1 (One) competent player in the entire group to kitten up that thief’s day.

how would you know? when i played on dragonbrand? you just stood in L.A. all day…

I don’t…
Know what point you’re trying to make.

Game’s been out for over 6 months, that is ample time to play WvW and sit in LA for a while.

EnRohbi.2187:

vespers.1759:

EnRohbi.2187:

vespers.1759:

Rayya.2591:

vespers.1759:

lol @ glass canon thief. nobody doesn’t play a glass canon thief. that invis is way way better than any armor.

Yes invisibility would save you when 2 zergs of 50 players collide.
Nobody will hit you, because you are invisible, and you are imune at aoe.
Specialy with 1900 armor /12000 hp (glass cannon thief)

people don’t usually drop AoE on themselves or behind their zerg. and i think there’s enough videos out there of thiefs running amok in zergs to know it can be done… easily.

L2P your faceroll class.

Those are terrible zergs.
It takes 1 (One) competent player in the entire group to kitten up that thief’s day.

how would you know? when i played on dragonbrand? you just stood in L.A. all day…

I don’t…
Know what point you’re trying to make.

Game’s been out for over 6 months, that is ample time to play WvW and sit in LA for a while.

i’m just wondering how one learns about PvP by standing in L.A. fact is thieves don’t have much to worry about even with rogue AoE. they go invis so often most people won’t see them ikittenerg fight or will lose track of them instantly when they go invis and run away.

huh… zerg vs zerg is censored. GG anet.

vespers.1759:

Rayya.2591:

vespers.1759:

lol @ glass canon thief. nobody doesn’t play a glass canon thief. that invis is way way better than any armor.

Yes invisibility would save you when 2 zergs of 50 players collide.
Nobody will hit you, because you are invisible, and you are imune at aoe.
Specialy with 1900 armor /12000 hp (glass cannon thief)

people don’t usually drop AoE on themselves or behind their zerg. and i think there’s enough videos out there of thiefs running amok in zergs to know it can be done… easily.

L2P your faceroll class.

I doubt is an l2p `` issue to facetank an 50 ppls zerg with an thief
but maybe you are the legendary thief with 30 /30/30/30/30 , and in that case i would honored to learn from you how you initiate the 50 vs 50 fight with an glas cannon thief. How you stay in combat and lead the combat for the players you are leading .
Cause once commander stealth and fall back whole zerg will fall apart.
You must lead the zerg , push , flank . But what do i know i am not the glas cannon thief commnder, you know it… have fun

vespers.1759:

EnRohbi.2187:

vespers.1759:

EnRohbi.2187:

vespers.1759:

Rayya.2591:

vespers.1759:

lol @ glass canon thief. nobody doesn’t play a glass canon thief. that invis is way way better than any armor.

Yes invisibility would save you when 2 zergs of 50 players collide.
Nobody will hit you, because you are invisible, and you are imune at aoe.
Specialy with 1900 armor /12000 hp (glass cannon thief)

people don’t usually drop AoE on themselves or behind their zerg. and i think there’s enough videos out there of thiefs running amok in zergs to know it can be done… easily.

L2P your faceroll class.

Those are terrible zergs.
It takes 1 (One) competent player in the entire group to kitten up that thief’s day.

how would you know? when i played on dragonbrand? you just stood in L.A. all day…

I don’t…
Know what point you’re trying to make.

Game’s been out for over 6 months, that is ample time to play WvW and sit in LA for a while.

i’m just wondering how one learns about PvP by standing in L.A. fact is thieves don’t have much to worry about even with rogue AoE. they go invis so often most people won’t see them ikittenerg fight or will lose track of them instantly when they go invis and run away.

huh… zerg vs zerg is censored. GG anet.

One learns to PvP by PvPing. Which I do, in WvW, for hours every day.

I haven’t hung out in LA unless I’ve been actually AFK since the fall.
That’s an entire season ago, and long past irrelevant at this point.

Zynthetic.2954:

Legit questions, what tier do you play in and what class are you OP?

Commanding in one tier is a lot different to commanding with another. Higher tier play often requires someone at the front leading the zerg train in the middle of a battle, and if you’re playing a glass on the front lines you’ll just go down repeatedly, and be more of a hindrance then a help. If it’s a lower tier you’ll be fine to sit at the back and pew pew.

That being said, I used to do a similar thing on my staff ele, but instead got it a full set of PTV gear to use. Look here and find out what temple karma merchants sell which pieces of PTV gear for you to buy, then get PTV trinkets from the Temple of Grenth, and then run the Ascalon Catacombs dungeon to get the rest of the PTV gear.

Or use your badges, but wouldn’t be amazed if they’re part of any WvW ascended gear recipes that gets implemented.

Just have to remember that a dead commander can’t command.

Tier 2 Server, Fort Aspenwood. I play mainly a Longbow + Sword/Axe Ranger

Hi there,

It’s highly unlikely a glass canon (or even a bunker thief with 20k health) can survive long in a organized zvz, the fights in T1-T3 have evolved dramatically since Nov-Dec, the DPS on the frontline has gone up, especially with 50+ man groups.

The thief commander cannot use mobility (KEY for thief survival) in the fight and he cannot port because people will lose sight of the icon, and once the soldiers lose sight of the icon they stop following and focus on whatever is closest.

If the commander goes down during a fight it’s not good for militia morale. Pug morale is highly instinctive and primal, the longer the commander stays up, the more powerful the commander is perceived to be (of course I am assuming the commander is also competent in leading). If the commander goes down often (with thieves, full bunker or otherwise) it’s a lost in morale with militia and guildies alike.

Squibbles.8724:

Agreed, those are the true definition of zergs – unorganized willy nilly chaos.

Try that in a fight against an organized guild group and you’ll get smushed.

Personally, I hate following any commander who isn’t a walking tank. The commanders role isn’t really to dish out damage. Their primary role is to scope the battlefield, decide upon tactics, dictate group movement, call for coordinated group actions, etc. you need to have a ton of survivability to do that; the more time you’re spending trying to stay alive/dps, the less time you’re thinking about the battlefield as a whole.

Mr Squibble is absolute spot on about commander duties. DPS is the last thing on a commander’s mind.

Krakah.3582:

If you plan on small ops with a tag then glass + high mobility is fine. Also since no one has mentioned it yet, blue hats render first so expect to be focused. Thus leading into large fights you want as much survivability as possible.

Mr Kraka is also spot on about small ops (5mans+), your team will need all the dps you can get, but even with that full glass canons usually go down fast.

FW

depends on what class of glass cannon you’ll be playing
Thieves and mesmers, classes with click of a button stealth options will find it much more forgiving to go glass cannon as say to a elementalist or a warrior who as soon as they are sneezed on, implode and easier to hunt down.

Engineers and Necros can actually pull off being glass cannon commanders, but I really wouldn’t recommend it as a “LERROYYYY!!!!!” commanders works much better for when leading a pug group as opposed to a guild group with ts, which in that case it doesn’t matter who has the blue shield.

As others have said. If you are commanding in the higher tiers you will get focus fired and the numbers fielded by each side mean there is plenty of aoe around and stealth won’t stop that. Commanding small mans/havoc squads you have more leeway.

At the very least you should have a full set of PVT gear (jewelery can be optional – PVT armor/weapon set makes a big difference) to swop into and typically even with a beserker trait spec you can switch out a few traits and skills for some more survivability.

You can re-spec for a a few silver anyway so its not a big deal. In terms of class it does not really matter, any class can be built as a tanky one if you want.

I thought pre-req for all commanders was to be full glass

One way or another you’re going to be targeted heavily. Coordinated groups will highlight a commander and say something to the extent of … ‘guys I heard this commander dropped a precursor, burn him down’

There are some thief commanders in JQ and they seem to do quite well.

If it is just to help coordinate your guild, of course it is fine. If you plan on commanding a swarm of randoms in EB on a high pop server, it is a horrible idea.

No No No. You cannot run as a glass cannon and be a commander. The reality is that you as the commander are likely the one leading the charge into an enemy. You can’t sit at the back and say “Ok guys, you go attack while I wait back here”. No one will follow you. You need to be at the front.

style.6173:

No No No. You cannot run as a glass cannon and be a commander. The reality is that you as the commander are likely the one leading the charge into an enemy. You can’t sit at the back and say “Ok guys, you go attack while I wait back here”. No one will follow you. You need to be at the front.

This is exactly the problem I have with the commander title. You can only be most effective playing a single build which you may not even like. I play a glass cannon ranger becuase I like supporting people without charging straight inside the fray and it works for me. I don’t stand around, I hit at least two people per shot. Maybe if they removed the repair costs from WvW this would actually work out.

There’s the key difference. You like supporting people. Commanders need to lead.

I’m sorry, but you asked for advice on whether a glass commander was viable. Most people have said no, but with caveats for certain situations.

Now, after all the feedback, you sound upset that you can’t be a good commander because you’re unwilling to change your build, and you fault the game design for that. Listen, do what you want. Get the tag. Just don’t expect to be really effective.

P.s. on my guardian/necro, I’m upset if I’m not hitting 5 targets per attack/well/mark when I push into a zerg.

There are Ranger builds that a Commander could use, but they all involve Greatsword and never touching a longbow.

Otherwise, Ranger doesn’t really add anything to group play because the few support you do have will never be near anyone else and the damage you do isn’t hitting enough things of relevance.

Another question I should have asked, what size forces do you expect to be commanding? If it’s a 10 man hit squad, you could use mostly knights with a piece or two of PTV and still have majority of your current damage. If it’s the 40 v 40 or leading the pugs, I’d say full defensive set of PTV (although shamans and clerics work well for various classes and builds to).

style.6173:

The reality is that you as the commander are likely the one leading the charge into an enemy. You can’t sit at the back and say “Ok guys, you go attack while I wait back here”. No one will follow you. You need to be at the front.

Quoted For Truth. If you stand at the back trying to command in tier 2 your group will just get rolled over by all the zergbreaker guilds TC and KN have. Unless you have a choke point, you need to be mobile or you’ll be running back from spawn.

Florgknight.1589

I’m contemplating buying a commander tag to help coordinate my guild in WvW….

hi ,
actually depends to what you wanna achieved ..lots of pug joining you? or you focused mainly help to organized your guild members? like zynthetic said what size do you expect to commanding…but i assumed you helping your guild members from your quote..
for me i think you need 2 set of gears PVT (zerg followers)and zerker (small-medium followers)
1000% agreed to “Squibbles.8724” : the more time you’re spending trying to stay alive/dps, the less time you’re thinking about the battlefield as a whole."
why you need tons of dps while commanding and died quickly? just give that job to your followers … you lead , cc-ed(traps ,cripple etc)- aoe

It really depends on how you handle your class. I’m an engineer commander and glass cannon. I can handle the clash. I’m in Tier 1 btw. Omnomberry Ghosts helps too

My Engineer is a healthy mix of:

19.2k HP.
2600 Amour Rating.
3.2k Power.
800 Condition Damage.
More than 10 CC/Utility skills. (In 4 Engineer kits)

The biggest advantage to being a tanky/dps Commander is the ability to push! As a commander if i run out the front pushing forward we tend to push an advantage. That being said, it dosnt mean full Glass Commanders dont have there use’s. Another commander in my guild (hence we run together alot) is a Glass theif. He and I work well together as i can push with relitive ease (because i am tanky), and he can organise Flanks, Rear charges, Siege setup and stelth spiking. its just a diferance in play. glass commanders do well in skermishing and tanky commanders do well in Zergs.

I find it strange, that ppl only obey commander when hes leading the zerg…. IMO if commander CAN dive in and get out alive thats good, but if he CANT – well, its my job to pwn those guys in enemy zerg, i dont mind my commander staying behind and taking his time to think or whatever hes doing, as long as his leadership brings results. If we had any way of coordinating and directing azergs or small groups other than blue hat – i’d even expected commander to sit in keep and watch the map half the time (well, you know, like in BF2, commander tells squadleaders what to do, squad leaders report back to commander).

DarthMohax.2593:

I find it strange, that ppl only obey commander when hes leading the zerg…. IMO if commander CAN dive in and get out alive thats good, but if he CANT – well, its my job to pwn those guys in enemy zerg, i dont mind my commander staying behind and taking his time to think or whatever hes doing, as long as his leadership brings results. If we had any way of coordinating and directing azergs or small groups other than blue hat – i’d even expected commander to sit in keep and watch the map half the time (well, you know, like in BF2, commander tells squadleaders what to do, squad leaders report back to commander).

Commander not for just giving orders. Commander = anchor – everyone follow him, everyone orients by him.
This is important. This is vital. This is absolutely necessary.
Example. You stay behind and command “Charge forward!”. Zerg perform charge. Some people charge farer, some people closer, some scatter to sides. And from this point, your battle control is over. You cannot direct next strike, because scattered people don’t know WHERE EXACTLY is new target. Left? Right? Behind? How close? And because you not with them, they cannot gather at you and restore zerg unity. Chaos, wipe.

Do they exist?
Best commanders I know, you could grab em by their feet, smack a house down and he would still say that it was nothing. Often in a big fight, if the commander dies it is game over. And yes, that icon attracts enemies. You think your group will run through the enemie as a tight ball when you order them too while you stay in the back? No.

If you command pugs, don’t take high mobility commanders (ele’s, mesmers, thiefs). 60% of your players wont be able to follow you, get picked off and die. The power of a good commander is the ability to push into your enemies and quickly regroup with as many players as possible. This is done best by big characters (norn/charrs) that are guardian or warrior. Necro’s would work too and to some extant full tank engineers.

ps.: People still complaining about repair cost in WvW? I have never ever seen such low repair cost in any game. If you only killed 1 player you covered for the repairs. If you can’t pay for the repairs you should look for another game because than you are really really bad.

DarthMohax.2593:

i dont mind my commander staying behind and taking his time to think or whatever hes doing, as long as his leadership brings results. If we had any way of coordinating and directing azergs or small groups other than blue hat – i’d even expected commander to sit in keep and watch the map half the time (well, you know, like in BF2, commander tells squadleaders what to do, squad leaders report back to commander).

But that’s not commanding though, at least not in the GW2 sense of it. Calling targets and leading ground combat forces are two different things. On TC we have a few people that are constantly assisting the commanders by calling out what they should hit next, more or less playing the tactician role. They rarely leave our third of the map themselves, but the assistance they give in defense and overall strategy for how we conduct the matchup is extremely valuable.

The USA’s General of the Army for instance doesn’t charge into battle himself and lead the troops, that’s for platoon commanders and whatnot. I’m sure it’s the same with many other servers/guilds.

As the OP said, he’s on FA which will be in tier 2 for the long run. If he hangs back while commanding and doesn’t lead the charge, his group will get rolled, thus not getting the results. Even when I lead TC’s pugs, I lead it as if I was leading PiNK, otherwise I know BT, WM, RISE, Ret, AVTR and PRO (and other guilds) will just get free lootbags if everyone stands there and autoattacks.

Ppl acattering around and not being able to grasp the battlefield are another story completly (tbh im not always good in this myself, losing tactical view in chaos of battle. And that is one of reasons why i still not farmed 100g for badge).
I’m in T6, so i have little expirience with multi-zerg battles and tactics, but anyway noticed that ppl dont see commander until battle or charge is finished, so i dont relly see a problem with commander staying a little behind (not in the kittening last line, with wounded and dying ppl but in like second line).
Also, i heard that commanders can form squads but never saw even one squad, is that even possible?

For me, I wouldn’t follow a commander who die fast and who stay behind the forces.

commander goes down and zerg falls apart instantly? lol glad I don’t waste my time on whatever servers y’all play on. Sometimes commanders have to do suicide rushes and show the zerg its okay to die to get something taken out.
Know what else happens, if a cmdr is downed, half the zerg rushes to get you up, turn the dorito off and sometimes you get just as many run by you without helping.
In the end play what you want and how you are most effective. THE most important thing a cmdr can do is communicate, explain and tell people what the goal is and how you plan on getting it done, once the zerg understands downed dorito or not they’ll do the best they can.
Hell chances are if the cmdr is dead/downed they have more time to type and communicate to the pugs.

Keep in mind that groups quickly find the commander and focus him/her (well, at least AG generally does); more-so than green arrows. If you can’t use stealth or genuine invulnerability to keep your glass cannon alive I would give that tag more thought (though, I wouldn’t eliminate the possibility entirely – you can compensate with player skill). You can always get it on an alt, just put the 100g in your bank and don’t touch it (I am doing exactly this, sans actually having the gold, my mes is a glass flamethrower so I am building a tanky removal ele instead).