Guild Wars 2

QuickRain.4735:

I find it funny most of the people complaining about the manually adjusting are people on servers either in the top tier or a bandwagon server

What does playing in a particular tier have to do with pointing out the silliness of score manipulation? One of the manipulations is actually a negative point adjustment in order to try and bump a server down (Drabonbrand).

The complaining in this thread, at least from my perspective, is mostly about how silly it is to be messing with the matchup ratings in general. As I mentioned previously, what is the point of having a rating system if the game developers are just going to decide anyway?

I think a year or two ago most players thought that they (they being the players, not the developers) wanted to be playing in a situation where there were server rotations and the potential for mixed matchups each week in order to keep things interesting. I don’t think that the remaining WvW population, a year later, is large enough to support that desire, so the desire has now shifted to wanting stable matchups so that there is some consistency for players.

For those wanting larger zerg fights, activity at most hours, etc. then those players can gravitate towards T1 servers. For those wanting smaller scale, more roaming, quieter activity, etc. then they can gravitate towards T3 and T4 servers. And for those who play outside of North America and Europe, those players want to be able to cluster around a group of servers that will usually face each other so that there is activity for them because there isn’t enough of those players to spread out among all the current servers. But the problems with re-linking and with volatility make any kind of stable play impossible because now everything is shifting around all the time and doing these manual scoring adjustments just makes it seem like the team isn’t listening.

Sylvyn.4750:

Remember when MMOs had you use real money to pay for transfers instead of converting in-game gold to gems to transfer? If I remember right, one game charged around $25 for a transfer, but then they occasionally offered free limited-time and limited-number of transfers to servers that needed a boost in population until the target number was reached , then servers were locked again, and paid transfers could only be used to fill low and medium population servers after that.

This was a subscription game, not a F2P, and that steady income stream meant they didn’t count on paid server transfers to keep the game going. So, Anet’s F2P model seems to be failing with regards to keeping servers stable enough to promote balance in server populations, which WvW desperately needs.

Most games have the character transfer for a fee of $20-25, and through real money not gem converting which is also a problem for gw2 when it comes to transfers. Also with gw2 they don’t allow multiple servers on one account, instead you move all your characters from one server to another for the same fee. So the barriers to transfer in other games are actually a lot higher.

Also WoW has free transfers from certain high population to certain low population servers for periods of time, something I suggested they could do to get some movement of players from top to bottom, but no one liked that idea around here.

oning rang.5016:

It is pretty easy to solve the problem. Relink and lock transfers. No bandwagoning anymore. And give people the chance to transfer 1 week before relink.

I been thinking about how a hard wall might be positive/negative….

T1 servers are locked from being transfered into and servers moving into T1 (or possibly T2) auto lose thier linking.

So if you push your points high enough to jump up tiers and you are linked, you have to be prepared to fight the big boys solo, whom are also solo.

Honestly there is no reason for kitten be anything more then 1v1v1, if you are claiming top dog status then you can’t be taking a leg up from another server.

VaaCrow.3076:

I’m sorry. You don’t plan on doing anything to fix the position you’ve put gunnars hold (EU) in?

I suspect that, in the current situation, they can’t do much for GH until next Link announcement.

Jacion.6302:

oning rang.5016:

It is pretty easy to solve the problem. Relink and lock transfers. No bandwagoning anymore. And give people the chance to transfer 1 week before relink.

I been thinking about how a hard wall might be positive/negative….

T1 servers are locked from being transfered into and servers moving into T1 (or possibly T2) auto lose thier linking.

So if you push your points high enough to jump up tiers and you are linked, you have to be prepared to fight the big boys solo, whom are also solo.

Honestly there is no reason for kitten be anything more then 1v1v1, if you are claiming top dog status then you can’t be taking a leg up from another server.

Problem with this is that every other server except, that which will not be named, would be at a decided disadvantage. Right now there is really only one server that should NOT be linked.

I haven’t bothered to post here in awhile because I felt none of the information I was giving was leading anywhere. Basically, telling ANet what’s up ended up being a waste of my time.

I will post on this though:

Manual Adjustments should only occur for movement down and never movement up. When a server loses a ton of players then it’s better to be adjusting down. However, a rising server getting a bump can lead to displacing another server that shouldn’t be displaced.

So if your problem is one server gained a lot of players and beats up its tier and your solution is to manually move them up, then you knock down another server…. that will just do the same thing and beat up the tier it was moved down into. It doesn’t change anything in the end. However, if you only adjust down then you’ll be more likely to balance a tier rather than just hot-swap out dominant servers.

Manually adjusting YB up so they could roll tier 1 is already having fallout. I’m not concerned about server movement in tiers as much as how YB leads to people quitting the game. TC or Mag or BG dropping isn’t the issue. It’s that YB’s mode of play is inherently poisonous to the game mode and community. This leads to people quitting, more player loss and more wonky tiers.

As for YB earning their spot by winning: they stayed in t1 last week by PVDing the hell out of the last 2-3 days when everyone else was in casual mode. This week they did mostly the same thing. They are essentially still “nightcapping”, as in they win by taking the undefended downtimes and sieging them up to keep them. They succeed by non-competing, or better put, by avoiding challenge. That problem of less difficulty leading to greater chance of success was the harmful mentality that created the need for the scoring change to skirmishes. YB just found another way to do the same thing in spite of the skirmish change.

This means that in order to keep people form quitting, you will see a PPT adjustment for heavier population times. There will be backlash for that, perhaps even anger from OCX and SEA. So expect more poo to hit the fan.

Also, saying KDR doesn’t matter with PPK is silly. You can see the PPK impact on reset and weekends and it tends to reflect KDR.

Matchups are still pretty funky in NA. There are technically 4 servers that are T1 material so whom ever is the 4th server to drop into T2 just dominates the entire match-up. Its been this way for about a month now. Hopefully during the next re-link, BG, YB, TC, nor Maguuma get a link because none of them need it. JQ is also on the fence now about not needing one.

Aurika.6751:

Tinfoil hat time. Last weekend when YB was bumped to T1, I saw more Anet tags in WvW in one night than I normally see of them in many months. In one of the earliest fights, YB had three Anet tags in a single group. Realistically though, YB with a link and DK active are strong enough to be in T1 (even if they are boring to fight). I just hope Anet is willing to make the same types of adjustments when YB loses steam.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ef_VKRBp7Vk

So to remove your tinfoil hat, those devs are in the same guild I am and play WvW because they like hanging out with their friends after work. Trust me, their influence on the game is probably less than mine haha (PS, I made it in to the tower :p)

As for the topic at hand, as someone on YB I was happy to get the adjustment because we were roflstomping everything. It wasn’t fun. At all. Regardless of whether other servers in T1 want to learn how to keep a map or not, the adjustment needed to happen or else lower tiers would lose population due to morale loss.

This newer system increases the turnover of servers due to the influence of the linked server on population. This is exactly what everyone said they wanted, so not sure what the complaints are about. YB will get relinked and drop and someone will come up to take their place. This system aims to end the circlejerk in the same 3 servers in every tier by making it actually possible to move up. In the old system we would have dominated each tier for 6 months before moving up which leaves nothing but disenfranchised players in the wake.

In my opinion, as long as servers/alliances are meta gaming this system and guilds are using the transfer system to stack servers WvW will never be able to achieve the balance it needs. As usual, thank you Anet for making this transparent for everyone and actually working to improve WvW!

People will always complain when YB is involved because nobody likes the way YB plays the game. You can see this one dude saying more people quit the game because they are facing YB. Well, a lot of people quit when DH was constantly being spawn camped by Maguuma but nobody cried. I guess it’s all ok when it’s the other servers but tables must be flipped when it’s YB.

“YB kept their place in T1 by tryharding the last 2-3 days when everyone was on casual mode”. Well, if you were so worried about it you wouldn’t be in casual mode. I thought T1 was the apex of scoring? How can you let a server that everyone call so bad overtake the “almighty #1” and the “fites server”? People work for the score, and YB worked for theirs. Don’t come to me and cry about how YB do that in less populated zones. That’s how servers get on T1 isn’t? By having a better coverage… Plus YB surely have holes in coverage. The other servers don’t exploit it because they don’t want or don’t care, so crying about it is just silly.

Now serious talk: If YB is all that bad and nobody want to play with them, why people don’t just leave them alone in the top of tier 1 and transfer to the lower tier servers to have the so called fights you people seek? With the glicko walls that end up being formed around T2-T3, It’s just you don’t go hardcore PPT YB style that you won’t move up. But I guess in the end that’s not what you people want. You rather stay on the same tier as YB and complain about it.

Immortal.1543:

Aurika.6751:

Tinfoil hat time. Last weekend when YB was bumped to T1, I saw more Anet tags in WvW in one night than I normally see of them in many months. In one of the earliest fights, YB had three Anet tags in a single group. Realistically though, YB with a link and DK active are strong enough to be in T1 (even if they are boring to fight). I just hope Anet is willing to make the same types of adjustments when YB loses steam.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ef_VKRBp7Vk

So to remove your tinfoil hat, those devs are in the same guild I am and play WvW because they like hanging out with their friends after work. Trust me, their influence on the game is probably less than mine haha (PS, I made it in to the tower :p)

As for the topic at hand, as someone on YB I was happy to get the adjustment because we were roflstomping everything. It wasn’t fun. At all. Regardless of whether other servers in T1 want to learn how to keep a map or not, the adjustment needed to happen or else lower tiers would lose population due to morale loss.

This newer system increases the turnover of servers due to the influence of the linked server on population. This is exactly what everyone said they wanted, so not sure what the complaints are about. YB will get relinked and drop and someone will come up to take their place. This system aims to end the circlejerk in the same 3 servers in every tier by making it actually possible to move up. In the old system we would have dominated each tier for 6 months before moving up which leaves nothing but disenfranchised players in the wake.

In my opinion, as long as servers/alliances are meta gaming this system and guilds are using the transfer system to stack servers WvW will never be able to achieve the balance it needs. As usual, thank you Anet for making this transparent for everyone and actually working to improve WvW!

Might want to check the ego at the door

Immortal.1543:

YB will get relinked and drop and someone will come up to take their place. This system aims to end the circlejerk in the same 3 servers in every tier by making it actually possible to move up. In the old system we would have dominated each tier for 6 months before moving up which leaves nothing but disenfranchised players in the wake.

Which makes no sense since they don’t even build the links according to multiple tier, but just to the tiers the servers are in. It’s obvious actual t4 server links cannot compete in t3, t3 server links cannot compete in t2 and so on. The only time we’ve seen servers make those jumps in power is because a) they made a mistake in the link (4 headed cd monster) or b) a server was asleep, got a link and then dominated again, see bg and yb.

It also isn’t good for a population to keep yo-yoing them up and down the ranks, eventually players will look for more stable situations.

Jacion.6302:

Immortal.1543:

Aurika.6751:

Tinfoil hat time. Last weekend when YB was bumped to T1, I saw more Anet tags in WvW in one night than I normally see of them in many months. In one of the earliest fights, YB had three Anet tags in a single group. Realistically though, YB with a link and DK active are strong enough to be in T1 (even if they are boring to fight). I just hope Anet is willing to make the same types of adjustments when YB loses steam.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ef_VKRBp7Vk

So to remove your tinfoil hat, those devs are in the same guild I am and play WvW because they like hanging out with their friends after work. Trust me, their influence on the game is probably less than mine haha (PS, I made it in to the tower :p)

As for the topic at hand, as someone on YB I was happy to get the adjustment because we were roflstomping everything. It wasn’t fun. At all. Regardless of whether other servers in T1 want to learn how to keep a map or not, the adjustment needed to happen or else lower tiers would lose population due to morale loss.

This newer system increases the turnover of servers due to the influence of the linked server on population. This is exactly what everyone said they wanted, so not sure what the complaints are about. YB will get relinked and drop and someone will come up to take their place. This system aims to end the circlejerk in the same 3 servers in every tier by making it actually possible to move up. In the old system we would have dominated each tier for 6 months before moving up which leaves nothing but disenfranchised players in the wake.

In my opinion, as long as servers/alliances are meta gaming this system and guilds are using the transfer system to stack servers WvW will never be able to achieve the balance it needs. As usual, thank you Anet for making this transparent for everyone and actually working to improve WvW!

Might want to check the ego at the door

What ego? That was a comment on the devs people think are conspiring against them when they don’t even work on the game itself and a general commentary on the OP and this scoring system.

Xenesis.6389:

Which makes no sense since they don’t even build the links according to multiple tier, but just to the tiers the servers are in. It’s obvious actual t4 server links cannot compete in t3, t3 server links cannot compete in t2 and so on. The only time we’ve seen servers make those jumps in power is because a) they made a mistake in the link (4 headed cd monster) or b) a server was asleep, got a link and then dominated again, see bg and yb.

It also isn’t good for a population to keep yo-yoing them up and down the ranks, eventually players will look for more stable situations.

SoS, a T3 server, rolled down T4 for one week and LOST (They came in 2nd and only 3k ahead of 3rd). Your argument about how T4 cannot compete in T3 ends here.

Xenesis.6389:

Immortal.1543:

YB will get relinked and drop and someone will come up to take their place. This system aims to end the circlejerk in the same 3 servers in every tier by making it actually possible to move up. In the old system we would have dominated each tier for 6 months before moving up which leaves nothing but disenfranchised players in the wake.

Which makes no sense since they don’t even build the links according to multiple tier, but just to the tiers the servers are in. It’s obvious actual t4 server links cannot compete in t3, t3 server links cannot compete in t2 and so on. The only time we’ve seen servers make those jumps in power is because a) they made a mistake in the link (4 headed cd monster) or b) a server was asleep, got a link and then dominated again, see bg and yb.

It also isn’t good for a population to keep yo-yoing them up and down the ranks, eventually players will look for more stable situations.

I definitely disagree. WvW is war. It’s not supposed to be 100% stable, but to make a game fun it at least needs to be balanced. Having a rotation up and back down again is much more balanced than being stuck behind a glicko wall for 6 months.

What we should really be talking about it how all the servers in NA are shooting for T2 if they can so they can be the top tier with pairings. This is why YB is winning right now, Mag and TC just stopped caring two days ago.

Either every server gets a pairing or it causes a bandwagon to T2 because players don’t want to be in the situation of YB or DB falling to the bottom again.

Your idea of basing pairings on multiple factors is something I have brought up in the past just don’t really have a good idea on how to make that work with the current situation.

Immortal.1543:

Xenesis.6389:

Immortal.1543:

YB will get relinked and drop and someone will come up to take their place. This system aims to end the circlejerk in the same 3 servers in every tier by making it actually possible to move up. In the old system we would have dominated each tier for 6 months before moving up which leaves nothing but disenfranchised players in the wake.

Which makes no sense since they don’t even build the links according to multiple tier, but just to the tiers the servers are in. It’s obvious actual t4 server links cannot compete in t3, t3 server links cannot compete in t2 and so on. The only time we’ve seen servers make those jumps in power is because a) they made a mistake in the link (4 headed cd monster) or b) a server was asleep, got a link and then dominated again, see bg and yb.

It also isn’t good for a population to keep yo-yoing them up and down the ranks, eventually players will look for more stable situations.

I definitely disagree. WvW is war. It’s not supposed to be 100% stable, but to make a game fun it at least needs to be balanced. Having a rotation up and back down again is much more balanced than being stuck behind a glicko wall for 6 months.

What we should really be talking about it how all the servers in NA are shooting for T2 if they can so they can be the top tier with pairings. This is why YB is winning right now, Mag and TC just stopped caring two days ago.

Either every server gets a pairing or it causes a bandwagon to T2 because players don’t want to be in the situation of YB or DB falling to the bottom again.

Your idea of basing pairings on multiple factors is something I have brought up in the past just don’t really have a good idea on how to make that work with the current situation.

MAG and TC didnt stop caring. MAG lost coverage those same days ago and both MAG and TC were playing normally. The only thing abnormal is Yaks Bends rise in these last few weeks.

etiolate.9185:

I haven’t bothered to post here in awhile because I felt none of the information I was giving was leading anywhere. Basically, telling ANet what’s up ended up being a waste of my time.

I will post on this though:

Manual Adjustments should only occur for movement down and never movement up. When a server loses a ton of players then it’s better to be adjusting down. However, a rising server getting a bump can lead to displacing another server that shouldn’t be displaced.

So if your problem is one server gained a lot of players and beats up its tier and your solution is to manually move them up, then you knock down another server…. that will just do the same thing and beat up the tier it was moved down into. It doesn’t change anything in the end. However, if you only adjust down then you’ll be more likely to balance a tier rather than just hot-swap out dominant servers.

Manually adjusting YB up so they could roll tier 1 is already having fallout. I’m not concerned about server movement in tiers as much as how YB leads to people quitting the game. TC or Mag or BG dropping isn’t the issue. It’s that YB’s mode of play is inherently poisonous to the game mode and community. This leads to people quitting, more player loss and more wonky tiers.

As for YB earning their spot by winning: they stayed in t1 last week by PVDing the hell out of the last 2-3 days when everyone else was in casual mode. This week they did mostly the same thing. They are essentially still “nightcapping”, as in they win by taking the undefended downtimes and sieging them up to keep them. They succeed by non-competing, or better put, by avoiding challenge. That problem of less difficulty leading to greater chance of success was the harmful mentality that created the need for the scoring change to skirmishes. YB just found another way to do the same thing in spite of the skirmish change.

This means that in order to keep people form quitting, you will see a PPT adjustment for heavier population times. There will be backlash for that, perhaps even anger from OCX and SEA. So expect more poo to hit the fan.

Also, saying KDR doesn’t matter with PPK is silly. You can see the PPK impact on reset and weekends and it tends to reflect KDR.

This entire post is a simple hate on YB post, and it’s getting old. You want YB outta T1? So do most YBers, but we aren’t going to NOT PLAY a week to suit you or anyone else. You want us out? Figure out a way to kick us out. Double team us, focus us and ignore the other server, I don’t care how you get us out, but get us out. We took the lead shortly after the weekend. It’s not like we played some trick to get the lead. It’s not like we PPTed into the lead Thursday night. You’re the ones that stopped playing on Monday. You want us out? Play the whole week.

All this shows me is that the game as it sits right now is not working. Glicko is too slow to adjust. 1 up 1 down…all that would do is show that linkings have failed in creating any sense of balance potentially both within a tier and between tiers. The constant fudging of ratings to make up for the imbalance in linkings and the constant bandwagoning of players just shows that a entire new system is needed because what is currently in place does not and will not work.

And all these arguments about who can and can’t compete with each other are no longer valid in 2 weeks when everything is relinked and we start this ridiculous cycle all over again.

Jeknar.6184:

SoS, a T3 server, rolled down T4 for one week and LOST (They came in 2nd and only 3k ahead of 3rd). Your argument about how T4 cannot compete in T3 ends here.

Hm, in the weeks before that SoS kept pace with SBI, yet when SBI came to t4 they dominated them. Was that the week skirmish changes came in?

Also I think it’s obvious by now that DB is a t4 server and NSP is a t3 server since YB left those tiers.

I would like to suggest anet to do a review about your approach to population balancing, I believe that a lot of people want varieties against similar populated servers (which means to make tiers meaningless). So, instead of balancing population within tier (which devs admit an month ago), please attempt to balance at least multiple tiers (and don’t have to be all tiers for the start)

Btw, NSP didn’t even put up much of a fight against YB during the first week of the link, will NSP be capable of staying in T3 without numbers advantage?

PS: Yes, is true, NSP is really big. HOD got outman buff during SEA even with our 30 something zerg. CD too sometimes on some days pull out the same number as NSP.

SkyShroud.2865:

… So, instead of balancing population within tier (which devs admit an month ago), please attempt to balance at least multiple tiers (don’t have to all tiers for the start) …

when linkings were first discussed, I thought that this was the goal… Eventually server groups would be so close, tiers don’t really exist. Current goal seems silly to me…

Xenesis.6389:

Jeknar.6184:

SoS, a T3 server, rolled down T4 for one week and LOST (They came in 2nd and only 3k ahead of 3rd). Your argument about how T4 cannot compete in T3 ends here.

Hm, in the weeks before that SoS kept pace with SBI, yet when SBI came to t4 they dominated them. Was that the week skirmish changes came in?

Also I think it’s obvious by now that DB is a t4 server and NSP is a t3 server since YB left those tiers.

I unfortunately can’t disagree with this after our 8+ wvw raid guilds transferring out and delinking.

DB has been decimated beyond recognition. I don’t care if we are T2 stable like before the pump and dump or if we are licking our wounds in T4. My issue is with the systems in place that allowed such a swing that a server gets destroyed.

You want people to quit your game? Throw a mid class server a huge carrot to 1st place and then curb stomp them to 10th place.

That’s a mother kitten 9 place swing, complete and utter insanity

Thanks for the information McKenna. Any communication, even if its not well received, is better than none, or doing stuff without anyone knowing about it.

As a Dragonbrand original from launch.. can you make it -1000? We really are not even hardly fielding enough to keep our BL atm. A group of five could take everything in about an hour in NA primetime. Oh.. and for linking.. How about NOT linking tier 1 and 2 guilds, which are pretty much zerg on zerg battles anyway, only starting at tier 3 and down? Then, change the links weekly, at reset, like.. you know.. when the matches reset.

I don’t know about other T1 players, but I cannot wait to get the kitten out of T1. YB and TC are far too reliant on walls and siege. The number of Rangers panging me with a longbow as I run by structure is astonishing.

I do appreciate Anet trying to communicate. But I am against what they are doing by messing with the points in the first place.

Jacion.6302:

My issue is with the systems in place that allowed such a swing that a server gets destroyed.

You want people to quit your game? Throw a mid class server a huge carrot to 1st place and then curb stomp them to 10th place.

That’s a mother kitten 9 place swing, complete and utter insanity

The system before server linkings wasn’t any kinder. Just server death tended to be slower while glicko did its’ damage. I’ve watched servers suffer and die (including my own)…just took longer to hit bottom in those days.

kitten ed if they do, kitten ed if they don’t. You either have people complaining about being stuck in blowout matches for weeks at a time because either the dominant server cannot move out, or the outnumbered server cannot drop fast enough. And yet when they try to compensate for this and basically just speed up the process by adjusting the ratings to produce more balanced matchups, a bunch of people start complaining because they would rather not try to understand the reasoning behind this.

All the /facepalms…it hurts….

Like the saying goes…can’t please all of the people all of the time shrug

Darlgon.9273:

Thanks for the information McKenna. Any communication, even if its not well received, is better than none, or doing stuff without anyone knowing about it.

As a Dragonbrand original from launch.. can you make it -1000? We really are not even hardly fielding enough to keep our BL atm. A group of five could take everything in about an hour in NA primetime. Oh.. and for linking.. How about NOT linking tier 1 and 2 guilds, which are pretty much zerg on zerg battles anyway, only starting at tier 3 and down? Then, change the links weekly, at reset, like.. you know.. when the matches reset.

Us server loyalist need a reprieve from being pwned nightly and trying to fight up a shear slope due to the new lack of numbers. I play NA prime time daily and our wvw guilds are pushing hard and doing fantastic with getting work done with 12-30man squads but you are right. We currently can’t compete with the zerg game and the mini havoc cappers due to population. We are running 2 tags a night now vs a month ago where we had 6 tags minimum across all 4 zones nightly and if we can’t do better then 2 tags in prime time, you know we have 0 representation at non-NA hours.

@McKenna Berdrow,

Will these adjustments be reverted for the new linking pairs? If not, you will have servers artificially inflated and re-create imbalances. Lastly, would Anet be opposed to resetting all server ratings after linking to 1500? This way the need for manipulation is taking out and all servers start at an even playing field. Granted, there will be lopsided matches at first, but it will progress how it needs to after the first 3 weeks or so.

@Jacion you realise, that it wasn’t Arenanets fault that your guilds left DB? The community should have done something to keep their guilds on the server. That a server falls apart like this is rather rare and I think DB is not dead at all, just has a lot of players that do not play much atm. YB went from t1 —> t4 as well and then woke up without many transfers and now is back in t1.

Adjustments: I understand why they did the adjustments they did in Glicko and I am sure that NSP can also win t3. But for me it is still not clear why there is a chance involved if you know a server belongs in a certain tier to make matches balanced. If you need to manually adjust the tiers to make matches balanced, then just do so and cut the “chance” to get hugely inbalanced matches altogether.

Linkings: if tier 1 and tier 2 have no linkings, then it is likely that tier 3 servers with a link would dominate tier 2. Arenanet has to think about servers breaking out of their tier as well, so it makes sense to have tier 1 without link, small links for tier 2 (so they compete with tier 1 if they end up there), medium links for tier 3 and 2 similarly big servers for tier 4 in NA. I think the current linking in NA were a perfect choice and it wasn’t the fault of the linkings if some matches were unbalanced in NA. Arenanet couldn’t know that DB would implode and YB would wake up like that.
For europe they need to start linking servers with different languages to make it balanced.

Kaiser.9873:

This entire post is a simple hate on YB post, and it’s getting old. You want YB outta T1? So do most YBers, but we aren’t going to NOT PLAY a week to suit you or anyone else. You want us out? Figure out a way to kick us out. Double team us, focus us and ignore the other server, I don’t care how you get us out, but get us out. We took the lead shortly after the weekend. It’s not like we played some trick to get the lead. It’s not like we PPTed into the lead Thursday night. You’re the ones that stopped playing on Monday. You want us out? Play the whole week.

The match gets boring when your opponents are constantly back capping/map hopping looking for empty structures to k-train and avoiding fighting. This leads to a lot of people logging off.
I couldn’t care less about PPT or what tier I’m in, if the roaming sucks I’m not going to spend my play time chasing your server around in circles fighting arrow carts until I break in and you all jump out the back, I’m going to log onto my other account or find something else to do.

Honestly it’s hard to understand how so many people on your server still go PPT tryhard after 4 years of this game. If they aren’t in WvW for the PvP action why not just go PvE instead? Or why not switch to a game with good PvE?

….and before you say it, I know every server has PPT guilds (which I still don’t understand), but with YB it seems to be about 90% of your server.

@rink I disagree. There are multiple issues at play here however the bandwagoning out is supported by the current transfer system in place and your suggestion of pay to keep is just as bad as pay to get, which is what occurs now. A system that supports merc guilds is caustic and destroys servers community.

Is our loss of 1-2 guilds anets fault? No

Is a 3 week bleed of 8+ major guilds on a server anets fault? I would say yes.

Rink.6108:

@Jacion you realise, that it wasn’t Arenanets fault that your guilds left DB? The community should have done something to keep their guilds on the server. That a server falls apart like this is rather rare and I think DB is not dead at all, just has a lot of players that do not play much atm. YB went from t1 —> t4 as well and then woke up without many transfers and now is back in t1.

Reason why they left was because they didn’t want to be in t1, it wasn’t their type of fights for the guild sizes they ran. Unfortunately they had stacked on a server that had good off hours coverage, I mean what did they think would happen from that. Nothing DB as a server could have done to convince these guilds to stay, other than maybe tanking back down to t2.

And boy did they scatter, some went to SoS, to FA, to JQ, to YB, to BG, to TC, to MAG, to ESO.

YB went into hibernation when they lost their link in t1 and also DK for their drop, they got a link, he came back, they shot back up to t1. But they didn’t have a mass exodus like DB did, only partial when Mal and his alliance moved.

The TL:DR of this thread is that it seems that people also think that conquest mode spvp should just be everyone meeting up in the middle of the map and having a 5v5 instead of capping, rotating, and retaining points.

Xenesis.6389:

Hm, in the weeks before that SoS kept pace with SBI, yet when SBI came to t4 they dominated them. Was that the week skirmish changes came in?

Also I think it’s obvious by now that DB is a t4 server and NSP is a t3 server since YB left those tiers.

I’m talking about the current link, not the past the link. SBI dominated T4 in the past link not on this one (only SoS and YB rolled a T4 match in the current link without being T4 servers).

Jeknar.6184:

Gord.8654:

I prefer the days before “The Server with the biggest blob always wins”.

And when was that? Because since 2012 the biggest server always win.

Have you played since 2012 because the early days of WvW were nothing like they are today. Matches actually mattered, skillful play actually mattered and and people actually tried. I’m sure i’m not the only one that feels this way…

Runehand.9368:

The TL:DR of this thread is that it seems that people also think that conquest mode spvp should just be everyone meeting up in the middle of the map and having a 5v5 instead of capping, rotating, and retaining points.

Well there’s a reason why SPvP is a failed esport. Running in circles, bunkering down, and fleeing from equal number fights is extremely boring to watch and play.

Why keep playing WvW as a large scale version of that when it’s already dying? Unless the next expansion is amazing this game has maybe another year or so left before there won’t be enough of a WvW population to sustain the mode, can we try to have a little fun with it before it completely dies?

Runehand.9368:

The TL:DR of this thread is that it seems that people also think that conquest mode spvp should just be everyone meeting up in the middle of the map and having a 5v5 instead of capping, rotating, and retaining points.

And you sound like conquest mode sPvP should be run around and cap and never encounter the enemy

Gord.8654:

Jeknar.6184:

Gord.8654:

I prefer the days before “The Server with the biggest blob always wins”.

And when was that? Because since 2012 the biggest server always win.

Have you played since 2012 because the early days of WvW were nothing like they are today. Matches actually mattered, skillful play actually mattered and and people actually tried. I’m sure i’m not the only one that feels this way…

lol. Early wvw was about fighting invisible mapques , flying orbs and herds of bots in the lake . WvW is not perfect. But it was far more broken.

YB in tier 1: Why should a game get boring if people are actually trying to play the system? Try to find a way around it by defending, by guessing where they go and ambush them. If they maphop they can only come from uncontested waypoints, so why is it so hard to find them and fight them?

@Jacion the system atm gives no reason for guilds to leave a server. They have to pay for leaving a server and get nothing back if they do (as there is no reward for winning). So if they leave a server they do this because they want to pay for going to a different environment, this has nothing to do with Arenanet. They cannot forbid guilds to leave if they want to, or should they?
I am not saying you should have paid guilds for staying. I am saying that a community has options to keep them on their server. It is important to have an active server community that cannot just be replaced, to have loyal guilds and to have important people that can hold a community together. While all of this requires a lot of work of the community, this things cannot be provided by Arenanet. YB didn’t “disband” when they went to tier 4, they all just did take a break. I think it is similar with DB. And if not, then they are back to the population they had half a year ago before a lot of guilds joined DB when it moved up the ranks.

Jacion.6302:

Runehand.9368:

The TL:DR of this thread is that it seems that people also think that conquest mode spvp should just be everyone meeting up in the middle of the map and having a 5v5 instead of capping, rotating, and retaining points.

And you sound like conquest mode sPvP should be run around and cap and never encounter the enemy

Absolutely not, I was just illustrating the other side of the argument. I could not care less about my servers PPT. Winning fights are important to me and in sPvP being able to win 1v1’s are important to me. But I also understand that there is a gray area. I think that is a reasonable opinion to have.

Rink.6108:

YB in tier 1: Why should a game get boring if people are actually trying to play the system? Try to find a way around it by defending, by guessing where they go and ambush them. If they maphop they can only come from uncontested waypoints, so why is it so hard to find them and fight them?

Because once you find them they map hop again….
I dont have a lot of hours to play, I’m not going to waste my time playing hide and seek and never getting a decent fight.

Rink.6108:

YB in tier 1: Why should a game get boring if people are actually trying to play the system? Try to find a way around it by defending, by guessing where they go and ambush them. If they maphop they can only come from uncontested waypoints, so why is it so hard to find them and fight them?

@Jacion the system atm gives no reason for guilds to leave a server. They have to pay for leaving a server and get nothing back if they do (as there is no reward for winning). So if they leave a server they do this because they want to pay for going to a different environment, this has nothing to do with Arenanet. They cannot forbid guilds to leave if they want to, or should they?
I am not saying you should have paid guilds for staying. I am saying that a community has options to keep them on their server. It is important to have an active server community that cannot just be replaced, to have loyal guilds and to have important people that can hold a community together. While all of this requires a lot of work of the community, this things cannot be provided by Arenanet. YB didn’t “disband” when they went to tier 4, they all just did take a break. I think it is similar with DB. And if not, then they are back to the population they had half a year ago before a lot of guilds joined DB when it moved up the ranks.

Disagree, it is a well known fact that guilds are paid by servers to transfer in. To the point that both my last guild and my current admit to fronting cold hard gold to buying guilds to transfer in in the past as well as my previous guild had a long discussion due to personal life changes with leader, as to weather or not sell the guild off for “good money”

That is pay to win for servers.

That creates merc guilds and bandwagoning

Anet profits on gem transfers, server receiving guild profits on increased wvw guild presence / winning and the guild profits by collecting massive sums of gold. The loser is the originating server who has no control over this.

Is this Anets fault? Well…that is deemed by how they lock out transfers to servers, transfer costs and if they even care if 200people+ transfer off a server in a short time.

Which they could clearly see just in gem transfer sales, they are well aware of events which there is a mass exodus.

If you witness a murder and you tell no one, are you guilty?

If you see a drug deaL and you get paid to keep silent?

Think it over, it’s a flawed system and anet is involved in it.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Rink.6108:

YB in tier 1: Why should a game get boring if people are actually trying to play the system? Try to find a way around it by defending, by guessing where they go and ambush them. If they maphop they can only come from uncontested waypoints, so why is it so hard to find them and fight them?

Because once you find them they map hop again….
I dont have a lot of hours to play, I’m not going to waste my time playing hide and seek and never getting a decent fight.

So if they run it’s not good, and when you get them to fight it’s also not good… No way to please you then man.

Jeknar.6184:

I’m talking about the current link, not the past the link. SBI dominated T4 in the past link not on this one (only SoS and YB rolled a T4 match in the current link without being T4 servers).

Alright you got me man! they don’t balance to the tier! NSP was balanced for t3!

NSP is currently blowing out t4 by 100k, and the most 1st place skirmish wins than any other tier. Just shows their link is t3 size and not the entire tier, really that different from when CD was the 4 headed mislinked monster stomping t4?

But yeah I’m sure the other two server links in t4 would be competitive in t3, totally.
Let’s also forget that YB and FA were beating up t3 just a few weeks ago, yup, SBI is totally ready to take on t2.

@Jacion I don’t think that “getting bought” is that big a thing. Are you saying that all the guilds that transfered from DB were just “bought” by rich servers that play “pay-to-win” instead of the fact that they actually wanted to leave the server on their free will?
- If a guild is loyal to a server, then it will refuse transfer-offers.
- If a guild recieves a transfer-offer, then this is an offer by another player. This has nothing to do with arenanet, transfer offers aren’t something provided by Arenanet.
- DB players can make transfer-offers as well.
- Buying guilds/players doesn’t buy you loyality. This players and guilds will just hop servers again with the next chance they get.
- Like it was said in this topic: many guilds left DB not because of money, they left it because they didn’t want to be tier1 at first and others didn’t want to stay behind on a dead server in a high tier (because Glicko didn’t react fast enough DB was stuck in impossible matchups for several weeks).
- Everybody saw the guilds leave DB, it was no hidden secret. It also isn’t something illegal in any way, people are free to leave to other servers if they want to.

I think blaming Arenanet is unfair in this case, there isn’t much they could have done in the current system to avoid people leaving DB. They could have ajusted the Glicko rating faster, relegating DB earlier but would that have solved DB when they would have went from tier 1 directly to tier 3 or 4?

I understand that you are angry. But I think you should be angry at the guilds leaders that left DB in a hurry and the community that couldn’t stick together for longer. And then mobilize the people that are still on DB and show the guys that transfered to other servers what DB is made off and kick our behinds in wvw, making them feel sorry for leaving. I am sure with the next linking in a few weeks you will have a “resurrection” similar to YB.

Jeknar.6184:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Rink.6108:

YB in tier 1: Why should a game get boring if people are actually trying to play the system? Try to find a way around it by defending, by guessing where they go and ambush them. If they maphop they can only come from uncontested waypoints, so why is it so hard to find them and fight them?

Because once you find them they map hop again….
I dont have a lot of hours to play, I’m not going to waste my time playing hide and seek and never getting a decent fight.

So if they run it’s not good, and when you get them to fight it’s also not good… No way to please you then man.

Sorry I guess I should have said “any fight”. Most of the people I ran across would head for the nearest portal as soon as they saw me. I’ve also had a stupid amount of people just stand still and let me kill them without trying to fight when I caught them out in the open.

Xenesis.6389:

Jeknar.6184:

I’m talking about the current link, not the past the link. SBI dominated T4 in the past link not on this one (only SoS and YB rolled a T4 match in the current link without being T4 servers).

Alright you got me man! they don’t balance to the tier! NSP was balanced for t3!

NSP is currently blowing out t4 by 100k, and the most 1st place skirmish wins than any other tier. Just shows their link is t3 size and not the entire tier, really that different from when CD was the 4 headed mislinked monster stomping t4?

But yeah I’m sure the other two server links in t4 would be competitive in t3, totally.
Let’s also forget that YB and FA were beating up t3 just a few weeks ago, yup, SBI is totally ready to take on t2.

Filling a post with sarcasm isn’t really going to make you look smarter. But anyway:
Yes, NSPPT should have been on T3 for a while now.
Yes, DB should be in T4.
Yes, the T4 servers are problably competitive with SoS (and problably with SBI pre transfers, now I they are problably too fat for T4).
No I don’t think SBI is T2 material, altho I’m sure that if JQ ever drop, they will have a hard time handling servers with NA heavy presence and will likely have their glicko rating leeched.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Jeknar.6184:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Rink.6108:

YB in tier 1: Why should a game get boring if people are actually trying to play the system? Try to find a way around it by defending, by guessing where they go and ambush them. If they maphop they can only come from uncontested waypoints, so why is it so hard to find them and fight them?

Because once you find them they map hop again….
I dont have a lot of hours to play, I’m not going to waste my time playing hide and seek and never getting a decent fight.

So if they run it’s not good, and when you get them to fight it’s also not good… No way to please you then man.

Sorry I guess I should have said “any fight”. Most of the people I ran across would head for the nearest portal as soon as they saw me. I’ve also had a stupid amount of people just stand still and let me kill them without trying to fight when I caught them out in the open.

I’ve started to just stand still. I can’t wait to see the boastful roaming video of that!

Jim Hunter.6821:

Jeknar.6184:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Rink.6108:

YB in tier 1: Why should a game get boring if people are actually trying to play the system? Try to find a way around it by defending, by guessing where they go and ambush them. If they maphop they can only come from uncontested waypoints, so why is it so hard to find them and fight them?

Because once you find them they map hop again….
I dont have a lot of hours to play, I’m not going to waste my time playing hide and seek and never getting a decent fight.

So if they run it’s not good, and when you get them to fight it’s also not good… No way to please you then man.

Sorry I guess I should have said “any fight”. Most of the people I ran across would head for the nearest portal as soon as they saw me. I’ve also had a stupid amount of people just stand still and let me kill them without trying to fight when I caught them out in the open.

Well, I roam a lot for YB and most of time all I find are people waiting for friends to engage one of the “so-bad-YB-player-who-can’t-fight-back-or-wp-at-sight”. For servers who claim to be so much better, I don’t see why everytime I need to be fighting outnumbered. Pretty sure they should be able to fight on even ground, no?

Honestly, all servers are just as bad in that regard. All the hate on YB looks silly to me. There is no promissed land of balance and good fights.