Guild Wars 2

@Xenesis
NSP may be strong in tier 4 atm, but the linkings were balanced. Go back in wvw millenium and check the first matches with the linkings. I would think NSP has a lot of fair-weather players and new players on the linked servers that join in the blob and just mobilised their players better than other servers. They also have gotten a few transfers in the last week or two, CD and HoD also couldn’t mobilise enough players on their linked servers. Nothing Arenanet could have done about that.

NSP will be strong in tier 3 as well, they have a good overall coverage and it are 3 servers, SBI and SoS only have small linkups.

NSP is linked with DH, which is super fairweather heavy… I wouldn’t be suprised if all the PvX guilds from there are actively raiding WvW now that the server isn’t struggling.

T4 has good activity. Don’t mind NSP stomping VP wise in t4. Plenty of action, more than these high tier fairweathers. Whoever you drop down, just make sure we got action. You can drop BG down to t4 for giggles and the 5 or so CD guilds would probably add a couple extra raid nights. Culture is different in each server, anet can’t fix fairweathers.

Keep the rotation anet. Stale matches kill servers faster than blow out matches.

Rink.6108:

@Jacion I don’t think that “getting bought” is that big a thing. Are you saying that all the guilds that transfered from DB were just “bought” by rich servers that play “pay-to-win” instead of the fact that they actually wanted to leave the server on their free will?
- If a guild is loyal to a server, then it will refuse transfer-offers.
- If a guild recieves a transfer-offer, then this is an offer by another player. This has nothing to do with arenanet, transfer offers aren’t something provided by Arenanet.
- DB players can make transfer-offers as well.
- Buying guilds/players doesn’t buy you loyality. This players and guilds will just hop servers again with the next chance they get.
- Like it was said in this topic: many guilds left DB not because of money, they left it because they didn’t want to be tier1 at first and others didn’t want to stay behind on a dead server in a high tier (because Glicko didn’t react fast enough DB was stuck in impossible matchups for several weeks).
- Everybody saw the guilds leave DB, it was no hidden secret. It also isn’t something illegal in any way, people are free to leave to other servers if they want to.

I think blaming Arenanet is unfair in this case, there isn’t much they could have done in the current system to avoid people leaving DB. They could have ajusted the Glicko rating faster, relegating DB earlier but would that have solved DB when they would have went from tier 1 directly to tier 3 or 4?

I understand that you are angry. But I think you should be angry at the guilds leaders that left DB in a hurry and the community that couldn’t stick together for longer. And then mobilize the people that are still on DB and show the guys that transfered to other servers what DB is made off and kick our behinds in wvw, making them feel sorry for leaving. I am sure with the next linking in a few weeks you will have a “resurrection” similar to YB.

Probably not all, I agree

I am also pro-loyalty, and agree that merc guilds are caustic no matter what server they are on at the time.

“there isn’t much they could have done in the current system to avoid people leaving DB” that is fault, the system, the infrastructure, the backbone in which guilds transfer, guillds/servers buy out transfers and bandonwagoning is control by the game creators.

" Like it was said in this topic: many guilds left DB not because of money, they left it because they didn’t want to be tier1 at first and others didn’t want to stay behind on a dead server in a high tier" that sounds an awful lot like anet’s linking system artificially inflated DB and caused it’s downfall, how is that not Anets fault in how they run things?

I’m not angry, I’ve stated here on this actual topic multiple times that I am OK with being in T4 and that my server will lick it’s wounds. I am a loyalist and I will keep running nightly with what ever tags is running or directly with my guild. I believe in this game having a community that gives the fun in wvw, that’s most of the fun in wvw in just being on TS.

You can’t tell me that what occurred is not a failing in design across multiple issues, which does, indeed, include transfers. You also can’t tell me that anet doesn’t enjoy its most likely 2nd largest cash cow (transfers, 2nd only to cosmetics) or that anet does not have its fingers in the population game, they control glicko score, linking, and they control how population is calculated, which is wvw participation based, not server actual population base, AND they control server transfers in that regards, just look at BG being “full” or people in chat discussing when anet will “open up” a server to transfers.

They are knee deep in this game, it’s silly to think otherwise.

At the end of the day, I’ll be on wvw, running with my people…what ever tier we are, fighting the good fight and collecting bags.

But for all of us (well, maybe not wvw juggernaut BG, yall doin ok) , we need all these issues addressed to allow everyone who wants to participate in the mode, to not feel cheated. Yes, we all log on some nights and lose…that isn’t what I mean….I mean, there should never be a 9 tier swing, and that both scoring, score manual changing, bandwagoning, linking and transfers need to be fixed.

just a normal day in YB garri

http://imgur.com/a/9LCVH

http://imgur.com/a/7FN4d

Beautiful, isn’kitten
[Hmm.. contraction + it]

Spx.9573:

just a normal day in YB garri

http://imgur.com/a/9LCVH

http://imgur.com/a/7FN4d

Please, if you are going to talk about the siege at least show everything… Art is meant to be whole.

Jacion.6302:

[…] the system, the infrastructure, the backbone in which guilds transfer, guillds/servers buy out transfers and bandonwagoning is control by the game creators.

Well, the game doesn’t directly allow you to transfer gems, to directly pay fees, money transactions are only possible in strong limitations. Of course the game allows transfers between servers. But again: do you actually propose, that arenanet should stop people from changing servers if someone wants to join his friends on another server? What is your proposition that would have solved the problem for DB?

Of course arenanet does have a slight income through transfers, I personally doubt that anyone pays actual money for it though. Most WvW players play the game so much that they don’t have to spend actual money on the game anymore. And I also think that the community vastly overestimates both the number and the effect of transfers and “bandwagoning”, while it mostly are just fairweather-players not playing when you lose/when the commanders don’t play. While I agree with arenanet controlling linking, matchups, Glicko etc. I don’t think that arenanet does things that make you want to transfer at all and certainly didn’t in DBs case. Most imbalances in wvw are actually caused by other players/the community that have nothing to do with arenanet and all I see them doing is trying to bend the system in a way to make balanced matchups again. But of course there are things that could be made better, I also think Glicko should be improved for example.

I think “blaming” arenanet to play the system so you have a reason to transfer and give them money is both paranoid and unfair.
—> If they wanted us to transfer servers to give them money they would have implemented a serious reward for winning the tier. This small change would have serious impacts and give people a reason to actually care about winning.
—> With the linkings you can be on a dead server and still get active wvw matches. This takes away a reason to transfer off small servers.

I don’t think arenanet could make a system that actually encourages players less to transfer. You just pay money and have no advantage at all. As you will soon see, because fights in tier 4 are fun

Rink.6108:

Jacion.6302:

[…] the system, the infrastructure, the backbone in which guilds transfer, guillds/servers buy out transfers and bandonwagoning is control by the game creators.

Well, the game doesn’t directly allow you to transfer gems, to directly pay fees, money transactions are only possible in strong limitations. Of course the game allows transfers between servers. But again: do you actually propose, that arenanet should stop people from changing servers if someone wants to join his friends on another server? What is your proposition that would have solved the problem for DB?

Of course arenanet does have a slight income through transfers, I personally doubt that anyone pays actual money for it though. Most WvW players play the game so much that they don’t have to spend actual money on the game anymore. And I also think that the community vastly overestimates both the number and the effect of transfers and “bandwagoning”, while it mostly are just fairweather-players not playing when you lose/when the commanders don’t play. While I agree with arenanet controlling linking, matchups, Glicko etc. I don’t think that arenanet does things that make you want to transfer at all and certainly didn’t in DBs case. Most imbalances in wvw are actually caused by other players/the community that have nothing to do with arenanet and all I see them doing is trying to bend the system in a way to make balanced matchups again. But of course there are things that could be made better, I also think Glicko should be improved for example.

I think “blaming” arenanet to play the system so you have a reason to transfer and give them money is both paranoid and unfair.
—> If they wanted us to transfer servers to give them money they would have implemented a serious reward for winning the tier. This small change would have serious impacts and give people a reason to actually care about winning.
—> With the linkings you can be on a dead server and still get active wvw matches. This takes away a reason to transfer off small servers.

I don’t think arenanet could make a system that actually encourages players less to transfer. You just pay money and have no advantage at all. As you will soon see, because fights in tier 4 are fun

I agree, there shouldn’t be limits on people transferring to play with friends or even guilds on a natural move. I am talking about massive exodus, so yes, there should probably be a population limit per time period for transfers.

I have no idea what the numbers would be because only Anet has the stats of populations when these things happen…younknow, maybe 75-100 people max per week or 2 weeks or months, I don’t know.

But it would slow down a mass exodus of 8+ guilds in 20days. That’s huge.

Will people inclined to leave still leave? Yeah

Will a server at least see themselves slowly losing ground and try to compensate? Yeah

Will a server go from hero to 0 like now? A little less likely, atleast people not abre ast to the guilds that are leaving will have time to try and regroup what’s left before it’s 9 spots down on the leaderboard.

Jeknar.6184:

Spx.9573:

just a normal day in YB garri

http://imgur.com/a/9LCVH

http://imgur.com/a/7FN4d

Please, if you are going to talk about the siege at least show everything… Art is meant to be whole.

WTB siege cap. That is disgusting to look at.

The only thing missing from those yak’s photos are the open field siege they build IF you even manage to get them out of a tower. kittening boring kitten server to fight.

Jim Hunter.6821:

…I couldn’t care less about PPT or what tier I’m in, if the roaming sucks I’m not going to spend my play time chasing your server around in circles fighting arrow carts until I break in and you all jump out the back….

Honestly it’s hard to understand how so many people on your server still go PPT tryhard after 4 years of this game. If they aren’t in WvW for the PvP action why not just go PvE instead? Or why not switch to a game with good PvE?…

You know, I’m going to actually answer your question, even though I don’t think the general whining really deserves a serious answer.

WvW as a game mode is not about simple brawling. It can be about that, but it is never just about that. It’s about strategy, communication, resource management. Yeah, it’s a brawl, but it’s also a chess match. And—shocker!—for some people the chess match is the most interesting part. Because—also shocker!—some people are goal-oriented rather than purely experience-oriented. There is a satisfaction in dividing the group, leaving just enough people to defend a keep with lots of siege, capturing a tower when no one is looking, cutting off the enemy’s troops trying to re-enter the fight with another group, and still getting everyone back in time to fend off a major assault and save a keep, and ending up owning more stuff than you started with. You’re playing a game of strategy then, and for cerebral people, that’s a very satisfying game to win.

YB had a long period of time in the first year or so of this game where it was regularly outnumbered in its tier, back when the tiers went straight down the rankings every week with no chance to roll anything else. Weeks and weeks of being the red server in certain tiers taught Yak’s players to utilize all the resources of the game to be competitive: opponent positioning, scouting, timing, and yes, siege, siege, siege. So that’s where the culture developed.

Incidentally, PPK is also not simply about who’s better at brawling. It’s a lot of the time about who has the bigger blob, ofc, but a low PPK can also be good tactics: some of the fondest memories I have in this game are portaling five or six players in to repeatedly attack a set of trebs attacking one of our BL keeps, trebs that were guarded by ~15 enemy players. And yeah, that would take sally after sally and we died over and over and if anyone had been tracking our K/D ratio I know it looked terrible because we weren’t killing anybody. But we also took down those trebuchets and saved our keeps. To me, that’s fun. And WvW is designed for that kind of fun.

That’s tactics. WvW is a game of tactics, and it’s absurd that a bunch of players get on this forum and cry how someone is “ruining” the game because that server has got better tactics and actually are interested in playing the game the way it was designed instead of just stupidly bashing their spears on their chests and grunting.

So people PPT because they’re playing the game that actually exists, not some imaginary version of the game they’ve made up in their heads that just consists of just straight PvP on a really really big map with a lot of dots.

In essence, you’re complaining that YB plays WvW on WvW maps.

Think of it this way: if you’re a commander of a squad, you want to know that everyone in your squad is going to be utilizing the current meta with the most up-to-date builds, the right professions, ascended and legendary gear, that they know what their roles are, that they will be on TS and follow commands, and that they know what button their dodge roll is. Basically, you want to know that they are doing everything in their power to do their job right. That’s what Yak’s Bend does with WvW’s mechanics—they utilize everything in their power: siege, positioning, retreat, PPT…TACTICS.

Anyone who is on here complaining that YB is winning because they actually play the game mode is essentially that kitten who helped their team lose because they wanted to run their Special Snowflake build instead of doing what needed to be done.

I’m not saying not to do that. I often run around on a Special Snowflake build. But I don’t kitten and cry whenever someone with a better build comes along and kills me, because I’m not playing the game as well as I could be. It’s my fault I lose.

The same is true of servers who are too Special Snowflake to really use the WvW mechanics. I’m sorry the game mode just isn’t what you want it to be, but it just isn’t. This thing or that thing may tweak, but it’s never going to be PPK > PPT. It just isn’t. They’d have to completely redesign it from the bottom up.

Why don’t people go play PvE? The same reason you don’t go play sPvP, I imagine: because WvW offers things they can’t get in PvE. I suspect you don’t really get PvE in the first place, if you think it’s that similar to WvW. It’s not.

Rink.6108:

@Xenesis
NSP may be strong in tier 4 atm, but the linkings were balanced. Go back in wvw millenium and check the first matches with the linkings. I would think NSP has a lot of fair-weather players and new players on the linked servers that join in the blob and just mobilised their players better than other servers. They also have gotten a few transfers in the last week or two, CD and HoD also couldn’t mobilise enough players on their linked servers. Nothing Arenanet could have done about that.

NSP will be strong in tier 3 as well, they have a good overall coverage and it are 3 servers, SBI and SoS only have small linkups.

NSP blob probably bigger than everyone left on AR that WvW’s. Kinda hard to mobilize something that pretty much isn’t there any more.

Logothx.5628:

@ jeknar ~ No disrepect Jeknar but there is no contradiction in my post regarding the OP in that i was shocked at learning Yb was getting any adjustment at all. It is quite obvious that Anet was reducing the +150 adjustment to +75.

You have a point about the warscore being the ONLY metric which is being used to exclude much better opponents in any match up.
My view is only that i value good fights rather than siege hugging / back capping.

Your entire post was nothing more than cleverly disguised angst towards a match-up. Which match-up threads aren’t allowed for a reason. All you are accomplishing is assuring any argument you would make is invalid based on your inability to refrain from making passive aggressive insults towards Yak’s Bend.

Furthermore I would suggest that this thread has primarily lost it’s true purpose and should be closed as any other thread that discusses direct match-ups would be.

QQing.3089:

The only thing missing from those yak’s photos are the open field siege they build IF you even manage to get them out of a tower. kittening boring kitten server to fight.

lol was trying to get people to just let YB have the bls. We can all set up fights in EBG and SM. Screw ppt. We were having fun battling it out with PPK until T1 went all stupid. If we had 1 more server that just wants to fight, we could switch out every week or so while YB or whatever PPTs their brains out at #1. We could all be (kind of) happy.

quick guys, YB knows how to actually use seige, Nerf it asap. before you know it. “KDR means everything” servers will have seige nerfed and i wont be able to place an AC next to another AC within 900 range. if you want nothing but fights why not go Spvp? or is it you are only good in blobs of 950 thousand? no but serious xD im loving all the salty comments. you know what i find funny the most? everytime YB gets matched lately, both servers gang together to take down the bigger threat, i legit watched a TC blob pass into a Mag Blob and not a single person died.

Handy tip: KDR is nice but if you don’t seige stuff you gonna lose yo stuff and lose to the glorious Might of the Yak.
every time an AC hits you, im thinking of you <3

Zallybar.4501:

i legit watched a TC blob pass into a Mag Blob and not a single person died.

That’s actually pretty normal.

~ Kovu

Kovu.7560:

Zallybar.4501:

i legit watched a TC blob pass into a Mag Blob and not a single person died.

That’s actually pretty normal.

~ Kovu

Well, that means TC was running good condi clears and Mag had decent stability.

Good work

Thanks for this, anet. WvW was fun last night without NSP domination antics.

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

We are going to make several temporary Glicko rating adjustments for tomorrow’s resets.

Northern Shiverpeaks: +150
Northern Shiverpeaks has been leading tier 4 for the past several weeks and we believe that moving them to tier 3 will create more competitive matches for tier 4 and tier 3. This adjustment will give Northern Shiverpeaks ~72% to move to tier 3 and ~28% to move to tier 2.

Dragonbrand: -150
Dragonbrand is not very competitive at tier 3 and we believe moving them to tier 4 will give them a better chance at being competitive. This adjustment will give Dragonbrand ~83% to move to tier 4 and ~17% to stay in tier 3.

Yak’s Bend: replace +150 with +75
We believe the +150 adjustment to Yak’s Bends is now too high. They still need a slight adjustment to remain in tier 1 where they are competitive so we believe adjusting it to be +75 is more balanced. This adjustment will give Yak’s Bend ~64% to stay in tier 1 and ~36% to move to tier 2.

We evaluated EU matchups as well. Riverside, Drakkar Lake, Jade Sea, and Vizunah Square are the worlds that could be adjusted for potentially more competitive matchups. However, those worlds have good enough odds to move on reset without any adjustments so we decided to not make any temporary adjustments for EU at this time.

McKenna,

I appreciate that your team adjusted Dragonbrand’s glicko last night to bring our matchup from a 4v1 to a 6v1. (2 dual-linked servers vs Dragonbrand to 2 tri-linked servers vs Dragonbrand)

I am curious if your team has considered relinking servers early to prevent the concept of “Dragonbrand not being competitive.” Since what your team is saying is "we are putting this outmanned server against 4:1 situations and consider them not competitive. "

Our server team is in it for the long haul since you believe adjusting glicko is the more reasonable thing to do instead of giving thought to an early relink. As much as it pains me to say these words, Your team needs to sit down and work out a better relinking system and start listening to the community other than the occasional poll.

Atros.9607:

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

We are going to make several temporary Glicko rating adjustments for tomorrow’s resets.

Northern Shiverpeaks: +150
Northern Shiverpeaks has been leading tier 4 for the past several weeks and we believe that moving them to tier 3 will create more competitive matches for tier 4 and tier 3. This adjustment will give Northern Shiverpeaks ~72% to move to tier 3 and ~28% to move to tier 2.

Dragonbrand: -150
Dragonbrand is not very competitive at tier 3 and we believe moving them to tier 4 will give them a better chance at being competitive. This adjustment will give Dragonbrand ~83% to move to tier 4 and ~17% to stay in tier 3.

Yak’s Bend: replace +150 with +75
We believe the +150 adjustment to Yak’s Bends is now too high. They still need a slight adjustment to remain in tier 1 where they are competitive so we believe adjusting it to be +75 is more balanced. This adjustment will give Yak’s Bend ~64% to stay in tier 1 and ~36% to move to tier 2.

We evaluated EU matchups as well. Riverside, Drakkar Lake, Jade Sea, and Vizunah Square are the worlds that could be adjusted for potentially more competitive matchups. However, those worlds have good enough odds to move on reset without any adjustments so we decided to not make any temporary adjustments for EU at this time.

McKenna,

I appreciate that your team adjusted Dragonbrand’s glicko last night to bring our matchup from a 4v1 to a 6v1. (2 dual-linked servers vs Dragonbrand to 2 tri-linked servers vs Dragonbrand)

I am curious if your team has considered relinking servers early to prevent the concept of “Dragonbrand not being competitive.” Since what your team is saying is "we are putting this outmanned server against 4:1 situations and consider them not competitive. "

Our server team is in it for the long haul since you believe adjusting glicko is the more reasonable thing to do instead of giving thought to an early relink. As much as it pains me to say these words, Your team needs to sit down and work out a better relinking system and start listening to the community other than the occasional poll.

Kudos

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

We are going to make several temporary Glicko rating adjustments for tomorrow’s resets.

Yak’s Bend: replace +150 with +75
We believe the +150 adjustment to Yak’s Bends is now too high. They still need a slight adjustment to remain in tier 1 where they are competitive so we believe adjusting it to be +75 is more balanced. This adjustment will give Yak’s Bend ~64% to stay in tier 1 and ~36% to move to tier 2.

but wait, come Monday they’ll lock us and say we have more WvW players than BG even.

Kovu.7560:

Zallybar.4501:

i legit watched a TC blob pass into a Mag Blob and not a single person died.

That’s actually pretty normal.

~ Kovu

Tanky boon meta ftw

I hope Anet is paying attention to Yaks Bends ‘performance’ this week. They are tanking so they can secure a relink. Don’t reward their behaviour ty.