Guild Wars 2

I was really hoping to love this game. I bought into all the hype about how much better than WoW it is.

After reaching level 80 I found that in GW2 you have almost no content left, despite buying into the idea that the whole world is end game. We all know that just isn’t true, the rewards are almost worthless from lower level zones, and that is why they are abandoned.

It took only 3 months for nearly half your player base to decide to quit. Look at the roster in your guild, see how many people are inactive?

When you do reach level 80 you can farm the events in cursed shore or you can go to wvw, or fotm. The cursed shore is only one zone though, that is right 1 zone for all the level 80 players.

Fotm is one of the most poorly designed dungeons I have ever seen in any mmorpg. The fact that group members who get DCed can’t resume with the group, and the group is forced to leave the dungeon to look for a new member is just sad. The way you set it up with multiple difficulty scales like that is horrible. You have one guy standing next to another guy, one is shouting LFM fotm lvl 8, the other guy is shouting LFM fotm lvl 7. Its just mind boggling how poorly this dungeon was implemented.

Then in WvW you have the thief. I hate WvW now. The thief can hit for 8k with steal, and then for 13k with back stab. That is two instant moves, that the thief is stealth for, two moves that take about 1 second to execute. Just two attacks and your health bar is gone. It looks like your heath bar just vanishes instantly in one second, you where not even being attacked. Then you see another one of those ugly midgets the asura behind you. Well that is it for me, Stitch is not instant killing me anymore. What is so lame about it is, I have a few traits set up to prevent this from happening. Such as an elixir that is supposed to trigger at 25% hp and make me invulnerable for 3 seconds, or a trait that gives my character 5 seconds of retaliation after receiving a critical shot, or 3 seconds of protection after being disabled, stuned etc. To bad that with just two attacks it doesn’t even give the game time to register you are in combat, thus your automatic defense traits never trigger.

What really drives the nail further in the coffin are the holiday events. Its like A net said well rather than make real content. Rather than creating more areas for level 80 players. We would rather base the content on what you can buy in the gem shop. Lets just have something you can play for a few days, who really cares it only takes a couple days to get people’s money anyway. Then after those few days we want the content to just sit there. Those few days when new content is available are often so laggy and buggy, that its not even worth trying to play through an event, or dungeon you know will be bugged.

So you’re going back to WoW then? Because I don’t think there’s anything fun in that game. 25 man heroic raid achievements are memorable. But that’s about it. It does have open-world pvp, though. In this game, however, it’d just create even more thief-rage.

The fotm bug I had at harpies for ages was fixed. I just went into it like 2 weeks later to find out it was fixed.

They need to put patch notes right in the launcher. Blizzard does this for all their games.

No! I’m not ever playing wow again, both games suck.

Ron.4920:

Look at the rooster in your guild

They are fixing your concerns about Fotm in January, adding in reconnect and the ability to play to the highest fractal level of the group.

I also haven’t seen a 13k backstab in like forever. I suspect some L2P issues here, sure theifs are annoying, and can be strong in specific situations against specific builds. engineers are a medium armor class and with a proper build are not going to die at all to a glass cannon thief. If you are taking 20k damage in 2 hits, you need to rethink your build.

Also Frostgorge Sound and Malchors Leap have content in them for 80’s, and they will be adding more level 80 pve content in January. In addition all explorable paths for the dungeons have value. So if I were you, take a break from the game for a while, come back in a month so its new and fresh.

arena net is miles and miles away from understanding the playerbase it has. they are following a very very dangerous road of “we know what’s best for you and we know what you want so obey us” mentality. WVW is the saving grace of this repetitive game, and they have stated that WVW is not a priority, and come FEB when they dont release anything worth doing, you will see another mass exodus of players.

something as simple as coming to the forums, or listening to players chat in map chat would go farther than deciding what’s best for us, then having us hate it and quit.

It only took 3 responses but I knew it was coming. Someone trying to blame all the problems with the thief that everyone keeps writing about day after day, on one person and their armor, and or trait set up. It never fails.

Seriously how the hell are you taking 20k damage from a thief, as an engineer? It boggles my mind.

Engineers actually have very strong counterplay against thieves. Invun options, supply drop (stun), immobilize, lots of gtaoe abilities to spam when a thief is invisible, kd, projectile blocking…

I couldn’t agree with you more Cover girl.

I’m taking 20k damage from 2 attacks; because thieves are such an unbalanced class that hundreds of thousands of players have quit pvp, and quit gw2 in general.

A lot of those counter play options don’t come into effect if your character is out of combat. A thief can kill you before your client can register it is in combat. I wish this where not the case, but it has happened to me enough times, that I’m done with all of it.

You didn’t answer the question.

How are you taking 20k damage from a thief? My impression is that you are level 80. Thieves don’t kill me, or anyone in my guild in 2 hits.

I’m not saying thieves don’t have balance issues, especially with culling and render lag, but I seriously haven’t taken a 13k hit from a thief after the signet was nerfed.

Are you looking for someone to change your mind? Why did you make this post?

Its just another one of those reasons for leaving posts, that you have no doubt seen before.

I must say reading these types of posts make logging onto my thief THAT much more enjoyable.

Anyways you need a new build. PvE’n to lvl 80 and getting exotics is not enough. You need to consider what build/gear you are running before honestly making true judgements on WvW.

I’ve seen/fought some engineers who survive 15K-20K BS combo’s, and they’ve turned around and burned me down FAST.

This issue is the normal response players have after playing GW2 when previous experience is nothing but the coddling from all the other MMO’s

Ron.4920:

I took 13k from a back stab last night.

How much armor do you have?

You have to always be in a golem to counter backstab damage. Didn’t you know?

can i have your stuff quitter?

My engineer loves thieves

Supply drop is OP. And if that thief has no defensive stats, ill down him before he breaks the stun/immobilize chain.

I do think the thieves powercurve needs to be adjusted a bit. Its far to simple to go glass cannon thief, they should have to sacrifice even more defensively or longer cooldowns to play one, and i’m not against anet nerfing their damage a bit. But right now the engineer has strong counterplay options against the thief, and a competently built engineer shouldn’t lose to a glass thief (but there are other kinds of thief builds that can beat strong engineer builds). You also shouldn’t take a 13k backstab. The thieves I know get them because: its an upleveled player or a level 80 with masterwork or underleveled armor. or the person doesn’t have enough invested in toughness.

When you see a thief run at you, then stealth, you should be prepping a defensive ability right away, such as a block, protection, or gtaoe stun at your own feet.

Since you post in WvW forums, we can ignore the PvE part I suppose?

Now, my advice to anyone who hates OP thieves: make a thief and get it to 80. Then try killing people with 2 hits. Either you’ll have fun, or more likely, you’ll realize you were wrong.
Either way you’ll learn very quickly how thieves are countered… because you’ll face it. Then you can start doing the same.

Well good luck man! Just know that no one is holding it against you.

The great thing about dropping this game is that you CAN drop it and there’ll be no effect on anything.

Its mean’t to be played when ever you feel like it.
You have no subscriptions to worry about or raid hours to meet.
Its pointless to make “I quit” posts.

See ya!

Couldn’t agree more with Cover Girl and Ron. So many issues left unfixed for so long. The mechanics of WvW are okay, but it’s getting boring after almost 5 months of the same thing.

And I love, love, love when people come on and defend thieves. “All you have to do is x, y and z. I kill thieves all the time. I never get hit for lots of damage from thieves.” Those comments just make my day.

Draygo.9473:

My engineer loves thieves

Supply drop is OP. And if that thief has no defensive stats, ill down him before he breaks the stun/immobilize chain.

When you see a thief run at you, then stealth, you should be prepping a defensive ability right away, such as a block, protection, or gtaoe stun at your own feet.

On my gosh, this is too funny. An engineer?

Thanks for your comment Nalenb.

Not entirely sure why this is in the WvW thread. Good luck, Ron. Thanks for sharing your views.

Any chance we can get back to WvW discussion?

Your main complaints are FoTM which they already announced will be fixed…
You could always quit the game in silence instead of coming on here to whine about it.

Draygo.9473:

You didn’t answer the question.

How are you taking 20k damage from a thief? My impression is that you are level 80. Thieves don’t kill me, or anyone in my guild in 2 hits.

I’m not saying thieves don’t have balance issues, especially with culling and render lag, but I seriously haven’t taken a 13k hit from a thief after the signet was nerfed.

I am pretty sure its a culling/rendering issue more so than a thief that is giving him the image of being insta-gibbed, it has happened to me a few times where I am sitting next to a supply camp boss dancing around and chatting with friends and I just instantly died, and not just died but died died without being in a downstate. When I look at the combat log it shows that apparently this thief hit me like 72x’s but my client never registered it, never showed i was even in combat, just died with the said thief lol’ing from 2000ft away. Its not a thief OP issue its a client issue and sadly thiefs and huge zergs benefit the most from it.

Im a glass cannon thief, and the most ive ever been insta gibbed for is 12k + 5k by another thief.

If you runn glass cannon , u gotta expect such things. Ive been hit by that much be a warrior and a elementalist too.

Dont wanna go down fast? Dont run glass cannon. Simple.

Here come all the lame excuses for why perma stealth, highest dps and best mobility in one class are balanced! Another player’s experience ruined by perma stealth. I love how the thief apologist claims that he’s imagining how hard he got hit by a thief.

Yeah my guardian with 2k toughness, 18k hp, and 1.4k healing, in full exotic gear is a real glass cannon as well. The exact same thing can happen to that character as well. The only difference is the guardian might live a second or two longer, won’t matter though she will be stunned the whole time even after activating 2 stun break utility skills to prevent the inevitable gank, and /laugh.

So you’re bored with the game because it’s not an endless treadmill, you’re frustrated because you can’t faceroll thieves with any build you want, and you’re angry because the gem shop has cool things in it that you either can’t afford in-game or aren’t willing to pay money for.

Got it. Have fun any place other than here.

In response to Jinx, I have leveled 2 characters from level 40-80 in WvW. I have spent a lot of time in WvW matchs with those two 80s, my best guess 200+ hours.

Richard Nixon.6573:

So you’re bored with the game because it’s not an endless treadmill, you’re frustrated because you can’t faceroll thieves with any build you want, and you’re angry because the gem shop has cool things in it that you either can’t afford in-game or aren’t willing to pay money for.

Got it. Have fun any place other than here.

Its like you assume the absolute worst, then you insult someone based on your assumption. I have spent a lot of money in the gem shop already. Like 3 extra bank tabs, extra bag tabs for my characters, 25 transmutation stones on black Friday.

No I’m not frustrated because I can’t faceroll a thief on any class. I’m frustrated that all the people in my guild that enjoyed WvW stopped. I’m frustrated that someone can be 200 yards away, and a computer with a 50 inch monitor, 16gigs of ram, 6 core cpu, a geforce 560gtx video card, and high speed costs 20 bucks extra a month internet, won’t display it. I get frustrated when that person I couldn’t see that was 200 yards away can use a move called stealth. Then they can close that distance to the point where they are right behind me, and I never even saw a single thing. And I get angry when they can use a move called steal, then a move called back stab while they are still stealthed. I still haven’t seen anything. Then suddenly I die, and then a second death from a stealthed stomper seconds later, no possible way to prevent it. I look at my combat log, while I see an asura pop out and /laugh, or /dance, then I see it Steal 5k+, backstab 10k+, heartseeker 5k+. It doesn’t matter if I am on the most defensive class in the game or not.

Teotwayki.9408:

@Ron, thanks for GTFO of my game that I am enjoying. You went from some creditable reasons for why you do not enjoy this game to a QQ about OP thieves. You were given reasonable responses as to how some of the end game content has and is being changed to make it better, but you also received predictable responses to your thief bashing. Some of them were attempting to be helpful. You chose to respond to all this by insulting everyone that bothered to reply to your childish post. Good bye and good riddance. This is a better general community than WoW ever had, even with the occasional kitten that are around in every MMO.

Sum it all up like you know exactly how everyone thinks and acts. Then you cast judgement, and turn to insults and name calling to make your point.

Ron please point out where I said thieves shouldn’t be nerfed or their damage was acceptable.

People tend to post things in forums that are an exaggeration of the truth. Usually its not just damage from steal + BS but its steal + BS + HS + HS +HS, steath quickness finisher, which I agree its a bit too strong. But anet cant nerf it that hard if they want it to be viable. A glass thief caught in a stun is a dead thief. I think the thief needs a better drawback to its quickness, for example it should pull them out of stealth and prevent them from restealthing for the duration. Personally I am no fan of stealth.

Regardless of where its now you should be able to live through steal+bs+hs, and then stun him. Currently there is sufficient counterplay. Problem is that random people cant be expected to utilize it.

If your guild moved on, then the real reason is that your friends are no longer playing.

The backstab build for thief is actually one of the weaker wvw builds. Thieves would be just fine if anet nerfed it into oblivion.

I just don’t comprehend the damage you claim to be taking from a thief… I just picked up an engineer, leveled from 2 to 11 in WvW so far. I’ve been ambushed by a couple of glass cannon thieves, and even I have survived a couple of CnD+Steal+Backstab combos… maybe the thieves had terrible gear, I don’t know.

I can tell you that my level 80 thief in a full glass cannon build (with level 80 yellows cause I can’t afford exotics on 6 characters) still takes more than that combo to down other people who aren’t also full glass cannon builds.

This also leads me to believe a couple more things. First, you aren’t ever looking around you. You can almost always see thieves coming if you don’t spend all of your time looking forward. While they are very fast to catch up to someone, their stealth is actually quite short. Second, you’re probably roaming around by yourself. If you aren’t willing to accept that you might be instantly killed by someone you never saw coming, you really, really shouldn’t ever be alone in WvW.

On top of that, thieves are amazing at 1v1s, 1v2s even 1v3s… unless you’re only killing yaks and capping sentries, why are you running around with less than 5 people? Five people ought to be able to kill a thief (Read as: 5 characters are able to kill a thief, the players ought to be able to accomplish that). Sure, I’ve taken supply camps without help, or, more often, with only 1 or 2 other people (not just on my thief), but it certainly wasn’t quick, and if someone from the other server had showed up, I probably would’ve been killed (or at least been forced to run away) pretty easily.

So, from my experience, on both sides of this, and as a fairly competent player (I would like to think so at least…), you have to be under-leveled, under-geared, and/or under-experienced in WvW.

I’ve survived against thieves as a lvl 9 Ele…now I die if I stay and fight, but I have lasted a decent amount of time on a lvl 9. So it’s not the class thats good or bad, it’s your ability to play it. Now lets move on to something new.

The reason i dont play it much is this bs with the server transfers. jade quarry should be closed off lol. These devs who suposedly play on sbi arent much anymore it seems to always be 25-30 against 150 at the least.

Its a waste of time when you cant compete againt a sea of red 24/7 Ive heard of go do ninja spec ops and kill there supply goats and other crap no matter what 25 against 150 doesnt play out very well buffs or no buffs.

I wasnt gonna even bother posting till i saw this thread on mmorpg site linked lol.

This is the uber pvp ill give them that but the server transfer crap and anets lack of giving a crap in order to sell gems and cater to the fotm server transfer people is why i dont bother with this. If anet doesnt give a crap about balance and being able to do anything out there then why should i? just shakes head.

I think there are a lot of frustrations with WvW and Ron (if I may presume to speak for myself and him) are expressing frustrations. Posting here in the official forums is kind of hoping that the game makers will read the frustrations and possibly respond to them either by writing back or changing the game.

Some frustrations are due to the game itself:
- culling, the attempted fix months after release was horrible
- patches a few hours after reset – 3rd or 4th week in a row now
- transfers partially fixed with the 7 day wait
- lack of exploit fixes, took way, way too long to fix the exploit on the east BL keep

Some frustrations are due to server populations:
- very frustrating to spend 6g on upgrades just to have a 40+ zerg roll through and flip them
- not enough people that I know WvW when I do, being in a group helps negate the 1v1 with thieves situation
- being spawn camped because you can’t get more than 5 people on a map
- same match ups week after week

Some frustrations are due to player issues:
- very frustrating to try and get away with Ride The Lightning only to realize I had an enemy behind me targeted and I zip into the zerg instead of away
- lots of players don’t seem to read the map chat and continue to take needed supply
- it’s hard to figure out how my gear/traits/skills are doing without more feedback from the game (stats, etc.)
- frustrating to watch a position get taken while your defensive siege sits unmanned

I’ve experienced a lot of these things. For me the game is still pretty fun, but the boredom is creeping in. I’d like ArenaNet to at least address the issues that they can control and have been mentioned over and over again. The video they posted on the Feb update does none of that.

There’s a reason they put in holiday events. The majority of players like the change up, it breaks things up a bit from their regular routine. It’s frustrating that the same hasn’t been done for the WvW aspect of the game. The dynamics of having actual humans as an ingredient for WvW only goes so far.

I think most players are working on their side of things. I’m trying to learn my profession better, practicing with different setups, etc. I’m also trying to encourage more people I know to WvW and also making friendships with the other regular players I see. I’d just like to know that ArenaNet is doing their share, but so far I haven’t read, seen or experienced anything of the sort.

Thieves aren’t op… just like killshot and hundred blades aren’t op… you just need to go to spvp and get some practice because you obviously have no idea how to fight them.

Thief is a one trick pony class. Just learn to ID and counter whatever the one trick their build is using and you’re fine. That’s why I stopped playing mine. You’ll kill baddies very fast, but lose to anyone good. Sorry that OP wasn’t willing to learn out how to counter and instead rage quit the game.

DemonCow.5328:

I just don’t comprehend the damage you claim to be taking from a thief… I just picked up an engineer, leveled from 2 to 11 in WvW so far. I’ve been ambushed by a couple of glass cannon thieves, and even I have survived a couple of CnD+Steal+Backstab combos… maybe the thieves had terrible gear, I don’t know.

I can tell you that my level 80 thief in a full glass cannon build (with level 80 yellows cause I can’t afford exotics on 6 characters) still takes more than that combo to down other people who aren’t also full glass cannon builds.

This also leads me to believe a couple more things. First, you aren’t ever looking around you. You can almost always see thieves coming if you don’t spend all of your time looking forward. While they are very fast to catch up to someone, their stealth is actually quite short. Second, you’re probably roaming around by yourself. If you aren’t willing to accept that you might be instantly killed by someone you never saw coming, you really, really shouldn’t ever be alone in WvW.

On top of that, thieves are amazing at 1v1s, 1v2s even 1v3s… unless you’re only killing yaks and capping sentries, why are you running around with less than 5 people? Five people ought to be able to kill a thief (Read as: 5 characters are able to kill a thief, the players ought to be able to accomplish that). Sure, I’ve taken supply camps without help, or, more often, with only 1 or 2 other people (not just on my thief), but it certainly wasn’t quick, and if someone from the other server had showed up, I probably would’ve been killed (or at least been forced to run away) pretty easily.

So, from my experience, on both sides of this, and as a fairly competent player (I would like to think so at least…), you have to be under-leveled, under-geared, and/or under-experienced in WvW.

Level 80 can not be under leveled. Full exotic armor, weapons, and full exotic jewelry can’t be under geared. This whole argument that one person most be responsible for what everyone experiences sometimes just holds no weight at all.

I learned years ago that you will always loose if you try anything solo when it comes to player versus player combat. Oh you got your character to level 11 so it most be a very thorough test, just 280 more to catch up with my engineer. I’m counting the skill points gained by levels.

I spent maybe 100 hours during beta in spvp matchs, I tried pretty much every weapon combo, and every build I could think of.

Ron.4920:

I spent maybe 100 hours during beta in spvp matchs, I tried pretty much every weapon combo, and every build I could think of.

So you’re quitting now because of how thief was in beta? Wat?

Since this is in the WvW forum, I’ll address the issue of thieves in WvW, from the point of view of someone who generally dislikes them, and has one at level 80 because that’s the best way to learn to deal with them.

Give it time. In a few months or so, as people incorporate more group based tactics in WvW, there will be a lot less thieves (at least the glass BS build type). Put a team of 5 BS/HS thieves up against a team of bunker guardians (or any combo of classes with survival/support builds) and the fight would go against the thieves in nearly every instance.

I saw this effect in the last MMO I played. They introduced a stealth class (assassin) in an expansion, and the forums lit up with “OMG Assassins are OP!” and territory wars filled up with stealthed gankers, open world PvP became about hiding in safe zone unless you were a tank. Then, after a few months, the guilds with tons of assassins started getting face stomped by coordinated guilds with balanced squads. Common guild recruitment messages in chat started to include the line “assassins CLOSED”, and people with assassin mains started making barbarian, wizard or psychic alts so they could get into territory war squads in the top guilds…..

I’ve already started to see how having too many stealth ganker builds running in WvW can detract from the team effort. When I play my thief, sure I get some kills, but I feel like I am shorting my team all the buffs/heals/CC/aoe my elementalist can put out, just to kill stragglers who weren’t doing much anyway.

Aberrant.6749:

Ron.4920:

I spent maybe 100 hours during beta in spvp matchs, I tried pretty much every weapon combo, and every build I could think of.

So you’re quitting now because of how thief was in beta? Wat?

No that is not what I said at all. I was trying to say that I have been in spvp since beta, and I have my spec all worked out.

Thank you for writting Thrashbarg its nice to read replies like your’s. I get tired of the replies that sound like teenagers wrote them, all of them with the underlying tone of I can play better than you can.

Ron.4920:

Thank you for writting Thrashbarg its nice to read replies like your’s. I get tired of the replies that sound like teenagers wrote them, all of them with the underlying tone of I can play better than you can.

First off, I assume you’re using “teenager” as a pejorative term. That’s fine, but it’s also the pot calling the kettle black because you, after all, had the maturity to make a rage post on an online video game about you quitting instead of just doing it quietly.

Which would also be okay, but your reasons for quitting are incredibly wrong, and whenever someone tries to give you advice it seems like you just ignore it and say “nope, they’re op because I can’t play against one” even though thieves have been the most nerfed class in the game.

Also, I don’t even play a thief but I have no problem with them whenever I play axe /mace // axe / shield or captain hammer variant build. When you said you tried “every build” it made me laugh… anyway, thanks for the waste of time post, nice to see more people nerdraging out there.

Also, those 8k steals? do you have 900 toughness or are you just running around naked in the zerg?

SniffyCube.6107:

Thieves aren’t op… just like killshot and hundred blades aren’t op… you just need to go to spvp and get some practice because you obviously have no idea how to fight them.

Yeah, go do spvp so you can learn how to die vs the 8 thieves on the other team every game for 10 years.

Dodge is the supposed end-all move you’re supposed to learn. Anything that reflects damage. Anything that negates opener damage. There. Saved you from the dullness of spvp.

Sniffy its people like you that make this so easy to do. You’re just so mean to a complete stranger, for no real reason.

At no point was I being mean… rage posts like this don’t even belong in the WvW section. Please give your feedback to customer support if you have a problem… or post in suggestions to help the game get better. Writing a short story on why gw sucks and why you’re quitting isn’t the way to do it.

The game is always evolving. Yes, it has been mentioned by about 100 people now in the suggestion part that GW lacks serious pve endgame… thank you for not reading or responding to any of those and instead posting it here again instead of suggesting how to fix the problem.

Edit: you haven’t quit already? 5 hours later you’re eyeing the forums like a hawk