Guild Wars 2

I just recently bought gw2. I’ve been playing a lot and having fun. I decided that I wanted my endgame focus to be more on the PvP side. So, which class/classes are good for pvp or WvW. I have been considering elementalist or thief but any other suggestions would be appreciated.

Thief breaks WvW with how OP they are. Elementalists are great support in WvW. Not sure about spvp.

just roll a thief, level it to 2 and you will be able to win wvw. just push 1 and 2 over and over till everything dies.. Anet isn’t interested in fixing it.

Play thief, they faceroll other classes in 2 seconds and even if you completely kitten up you can just stealth for a re-do.

I wanted to be different… but yeah, what everyone else said. Roll a thief, abuse the rendering issues in WvW and faceroll your way to victory.
If you want to be slightly different you can roll a mesmer and abuse the same rendering issues and faceroll slightly differently to victory. Oh and portal bomb.

Meh, even faceroll is too complex for thief. It’s mostly pressing one key.

Be fair.

Thieves can do more complex things that are OP, like insta-gib people before they render or rez people completely from stealth.

Seriously though I recommend cutting your teeth on PVE for a bit and trying your hand at the classes. IF YOU MUST hit PVP immediately then do it with something fairly safe and ranged. Glass cannon squishy could be frustrating for you if you are not versed in the game yet because you will die alot more.

If a thief gets on you and is killing you though, don’t run. Face them. The only thing that can escape a thief is another thief or mesmers underwater. You won’t get far, might as well fight.

Not true, d/d eles can outrun thieves as well…

But yeah, thief continues to be pretty OP… Kill shot on warrior rifle is also OP as hell… Would love to know how a max-range no-setup unmissable single button press that hits for 12-15k can be deemed balanced.

If you have a decent grasp of tactics, mesmer is very powerful as well.

If I had to be fair…then…

…all classes in GW2 are decent to play in WvW. Yes, even Rangers. Thieves, well, you could play them as one trick pony or you could be a lot more. The important thing is to find a class whose style and role fits you.

What I can recommend:
-Elementalist:
Can do Anything, ANYTHING You want to do. You name it, ele got it.
Insane burst? check.
Insane tanking ability? check.
Insane survivability? check.
Insane heal? check.
Insane utility? check.
Insane mobility? check.

It’s not like you can have everything at the same time but ele is one of the most flexible classes and the way, the skills and traits synergize with eachother is unmatched. There are probably more viable elementalist builds than there are builds for all other classes combined.
if you want (dagger/dagger)elementalist pvp footage, check here:
http://www.youtube.com/user/daphoenix555

As an alternative:
Guardian:
Can pack quite a punch while buffing allies and charging at opponents, shrugging off attacks left and right. More focussed on having allies around tho. If you are more of a loner, I’d rather suggest taking a warrior instead. Not sayin, warrior is bad in a team, quite on the contrary. Warrior is just the better solo.

@naphack: I literally told the same about Ele to a friend who wanted “to play a caster class”. Yet he is not happy now and is about to reroll. Reason: doesn’t match his personal style.

By extension, playing a thief just because of the “faceroll” factor won’t work for people who at heart are something else.

Well it seems that thief is op, which means it will probably get fixed at some point by Anet. So, how are ele and thief in Pve?

Don’t listen to everyone saying how OP the thief is, they’re just butthurt because they have glass builds and are undergeared so backstab does 8-10k dmg to them.

Thiefs ARE good but they prey on players who don’t know what they are doing (and the stealth bug makes them invisible for longer then they are supposed to be which is a HUGE issue in WvW)

Elementals in PvE are squishy but good, Thiefs in PvE are god-like when played properly.

I’m probably going to be making both anyway, but I’m going to start with an ele. Also, wasn’t there an ele nerf recently?

I’m not entirely sure, almost everyone but warriors got nerfs last patch so I’d assume so but check their forums.

Thief if you want to fear no class other than another Thief. Plus they pretty much have a flat learning curve. Elementalist for flexibility and outright toughness with a d/d aura build or whatever it is. They’re hard to kill and have many escape options. But, in direct opposition to the Thief, have a learning curve that looks like scaling a building.

Right now, if you take any advice at all, I’d highly suggest avoiding Ranger as they’re ridiculously easy to kill. They’re a good support class, especially if you’re running with the zerg and attacking keeps, but are pretty terribad 1v1. Mostly because I think a sizable chunk of their DPS is wrapped up in their pet’s AI which is just not good.

Pikajew.8301:

I’m probably going to be making both anyway, but I’m going to start with an ele. Also, wasn’t there an ele nerf recently?

You mean this?

Profession Skills
Elementalist
Ride the Lightning: This skill should now track moving enemies more reliably.
Magnetic Grasp: This skill should now track moving enemies more reliably and end correctly when you reach your target.
Evasive Arcana: This trait no longer creates unintended blast finishers.
Ether Renewal: This skill’s cast time has been reduced from 4.75 to 3.5 seconds. There is no change to the total amount of healing.
Healing Rain: This skill’s tooltip now states the correct duration of 6 seconds.
Armor of Earth: This skill’s tooltip now states the correct duration of 6 seconds.
Churning Earth: This skill’s description no longer references “hold and release.”
Signets of Earth, Air, Fire, and Water: These skills should now have a cast animation while wielding a Fiery Greatsword.
Ring of Fire: This skill on Conjure Flame now lists itself as a Fire combo field.
Dragon’s Tooth: The blast finisher for this skill now triggers at the spell location rather than the character’s location.
Magnetic Wave: This skill’s missile-reflect portion now has an accompanying icon.
Phoenix: This skill’s tooltip now states the correct duration of 5 seconds of vigor that this skill applies.
Blasting Staff and Geomancer’s Alacrity: These traits now work together for the Eruption skill.
Mist Form: This skill now works with the Water Magic trait Cantrip Mastery.
Soothing Wave: This skill now properly applies regeneration to the elementalist when using Conjure Frost rather than only when the bow is picked up.
Healing Ripple: This skill’s scaling with healing power has been reduced by 50% in PvP only, as it had scaling that’s normally reserved for main healing skills. The maximum number of targets has also been reduced from infinite to 5.
Obsidian Focus: This Earth Magic trait now grants toughness when channeling the Stone Shards skill.
Ice Spike: This skill’s tooltip now states the correct amount of vulnerability when traited.
Conjure Frost Bow’s Deep Freeze: This skill now applies 1 second of chill per pulse, preventing extreme stacking of chill on a target.
Conjure Frost Bow’s Ice Storm: This skill now applies 5 seconds of bleeding per hit instead of confusion.
Tidal Wave: This skill’s responsiveness has been improved.
Tornado: Leaving this elite skill now removes the stability it grants in order to make it consistent with other elite transformation abilities.
Vapor Form: Fixed a bug that allowed this skill to contest a capture point.
Flame Axe: This weapon now grants the wielder power and condition damage.
Frost Bow: This weapon now grants the wielder increased condition duration and increased healing power.
Fiery Greatsword: This weapon now grants the wielder power and condition damage.
Magnetic Shield: This weapon now grants the wielder vitality and toughness.
Lightning Hammer: This weapon now grants the wielder increased precision and critical damage.

nerf much?
I only count 1 real nerf there, maybe 2. I markked the changes which actually did something beyond fixing tooltips.

Thieves drop people really really fast and really well in wvw, but if you’re looking for utility, play an eng! Right now, we have a sorta-like-mesmer-pull but less powerful (with only 1 target, longer cast time, and often fails due to LOS :c) but when it works, it feels oh so sweet. grenades do decent but consistent aoe dmg. Mortar still sucks but skill 5 is rather fun to use, and supply crate is always nice in small skirmishes (say 5v5).

Actually, i checked the wiki, but I have no idea what’s the mesmer pull skill :| Is it temporal curtain?

Ranger; they’re SOOO good.

BabelFish.7234:

Don’t listen to everyone saying how OP the thief is, they’re just butthurt because they have glass builds and are undergeared so backstab does 8-10k dmg to them.

28k hp, 2900 armor. Due to rendering issues impossible to track and counter attack the thief, or he can ez mode escape if by chance he does get in danger. The issue with thieves isn’t just about what they do to glass builds, but how the class does in general. In fact I’d have to say that unicorn spec’d thieves are far more OP in WvW than backstab thieves because they are literally immortal when you add in the culling/rendering issue in WvW that keeps them invisible forever unless they don’t understand how to use stealth after revealed debuff.

TLDR: With my hp and armor I don’t get instagibbed by thieves. However they are impossible to track, catch or defeat thanks to their kitten utility baked into the class, survivability and escape mechanisms that abuse the living hell out of the rendering/culling issues. No respect for them.

mjharrison.3209:

Would love to know how a max-range no-setup unmissable single button press that hits for 12-15k can be deemed balanced.

Unmissable Killshot? Now Ive heart everything lol

Anet’s done such a large amount of significant changes to classes. That rolling a char is a complete dice roll at this point. Unless you play a thief, like 70% of everyone else.

Thief got lower dmg (slightly), yet more stealths and blinds… Which is backwards of what needed to be done, lol.

Mesmer has no dmg at all anymore, pretty much just annoy people while others kill. Mainly playing a haste/portal bot. Yet people will still complain due to them lacking situational awareness, and can’t tell the difference between a mindless clone, and a moving, dodging player using skills. I honestly wish they made mesmers back to the way they were, and just made the clones look like zombies or something so people can tell easier.

Eles ‘were’ skill based, and you only had to worry when you saw a good one. Now they made em easy to play, and kept their full faceroll effectiveness. So now anyone can do it. Which is why the insane dmg issue, those attacks used to be tough to pull off. Now you can do it all with a simple autotarget and a rotation.

Rangers have always sucked, due to lacking any form of survivability in comparisson to any other class, and faaar less than their equal armor counterparts, yet all they did was up their dmg….

Engineer r the only class that can heavily stack bleeds and burns at the same time, yet no one ever says anything because most people don’t notice the conditions that kill them.

Necros needed more dmg at first, now that they ‘kept’ buffing it in all angles, now it’s just to the point of stupitity, all the health in the world, tons of cc and survive, yet tons of dmg and conds too.

Long story short… They keep doing significant changes, yet almost always in the wrong direction that the classes need, lol.

Noticed something someone wrote about warriors up top…. I’ve extensively played every class in this game. Warriors can do insane dmg, but only with a couple attacks, and those attacks r easily countered/avoided.
Warriors are perfectly balanced, people just need to learn their enemy classes so you know what to do and when.

Balidore.2790:

Mesmer has no dmg at all anymore, pretty much just annoy people while others kill. Mainly playing a haste/portal bot. Yet people will still complain due to them lacking situational awareness, and can’t tell the difference between a mindless clone, and a moving, dodging player using skills. I honestly wish they made mesmers back to the way they were, and just made the clones look like zombies or something so people can tell easier.

?
Phatasm/Shatter hybrid still kittens face against players 1v1 right up there with thief/ele effectiveness. It still has insane survivability build in to the class as well being the only other class capable of exploiting the culling issues on-demand like thieves.

Portal bombs are still the nuclear weapon technology of GW2 in WvW.

Pikajew.8301:

Well it seems that thief is op, which means it will probably get fixed at some point by Anet. So, how are ele and thief in Pve?

Na, thief has been op for awhile. Anet just doesn’t think it is, so it’s safe to make one and you will still be able to destroy everyone while eating your bag of cheetos.

Braxxus.2904:

28k hp, 2900 armor. Due to rendering issues impossible to track and counter attack the thief, or he can ez mode escape if by chance he does get in danger. The issue with thieves isn’t just about what they do to glass builds, but how the class does in general. In fact I’d have to say that unicorn spec’d thieves are far more OP in WvW than backstab thieves because they are literally immortal when you add in the culling/rendering issue in WvW that keeps them invisible forever unless they don’t understand how to use stealth after revealed debuff.

What is a unicorn specced thief?

morrolan.9608:

What is a unicorn specced thief?

Death blossom condi-stealth-tank.

Main attack gives evasion, 25 stack bleeds on demand, stealth clears conditions / regens health / gives initiative, dodging stacks might/drops caltrops, heals itself x2 on every attack etc.

Worst thing ever to fight when the thief playing it has the faintest of clue as to what he’s doing. It’s like fighting a skilled d/d ele except the player has one hand in a cheeto bag and is watching tv at the same time while pulling off the same level of player destruction.

… shameram confession: I have one for spvp farming. It’s disgusting but ANet apparently hasn’t noticed it yet so might as well farm ranks while it lasts.

anyways on topic with the thread….it depends what role you want to take

Mesmers and Thieves are great 1v1 dueling classes, Mesmer you have to prey on player psychology while thief is big on unpredictability (and yes they are stupidly strong with the culling issues right now)
If you’re looking more for crowd control, I’d look into Engineer, Necromancer, or Elementalist.

also Mesmer clones? ctrl click the mesmer at the start of the fight.

Braxxus.2904:

BabelFish.7234:

Don’t listen to everyone saying how OP the thief is, they’re just butthurt because they have glass builds and are undergeared so backstab does 8-10k dmg to them.

28k hp, 2900 armor. Due to rendering issues impossible to track and counter attack the thief, or he can ez mode escape if by chance he does get in danger. The issue with thieves isn’t just about what they do to glass builds, but how the class does in general. In fact I’d have to say that unicorn spec’d thieves are far more OP in WvW than backstab thieves because they are literally immortal when you add in the culling/rendering issue in WvW that keeps them invisible forever unless they don’t understand how to use stealth after revealed debuff.

TLDR: With my hp and armor I don’t get instagibbed by thieves. However they are impossible to track, catch or defeat thanks to their kitten utility baked into the class, survivability and escape mechanisms that abuse the living hell out of the rendering/culling issues. No respect for them.

That’s kind of the point of the class. (rendering issues removed)

i love backstab thiefs…i just insta kill them with my static discharge build…

DeckerDontPlay.1639:

That’s kind of the point of the class. (rendering issues removed)

Impossible to track, catch or defeat is a rediculous “point of the class”. It’s what some people might call broken, or OP/imbalanced.

There’s something more to be considered when choosing to level for WvW. By the time you do, full Exotic sets will be the norm. One exotic set is 6 armor pieces + 5 accessory pieces (not counting back piece) + several exotic weapons. Spice up with 6 exotic jewels for the accessories, 7 possibly expensive runes for the armor+breather, and as many sigils as weapons. This is one set. However, many classes are best served by having 2-3 sets for different setups. I personally have 3 sets + additional harvesting weapons with 25 stack type sigils on my main alone and compared to many wvw players on my server I’m casual (especially the guys with double legendaries).

Gear makes a difference in WvW. Don’t expect to run underleveled and in greens and somehow get the maximum out of your class. Even if you are an excellent player you be doing below the maximum. And if you are about average, like most ppl here statistically speaking (no offense), you’re going to end insta-gibbed many times, and not only by thieves. Some classes are very sensitive to this “maxing out” and don’t really shine before it.

Now, I won’t even go into the can of worms with the gear threadmill we might see implemented which will mean even more grind for wvw. The point is, having an adequate wvw character is a serious investment for casual players. You don’t want to get stuck in a class you don’t enjoy playing.

Thieves are only OP because lots of players are using WvW to level, and lots of players like to run in WvW with high-damage/low-survival builds.

Once the game matures a bit more, and it becomes common to load on lots of defense, Thieves will be much less of a problem. Their stealthing and teleporting abilities make them very good at applying their burst damage combos, but their damage is quite mediocre while their good moves are on cooldown (assuming they built to burst). They can build in other ways, though, that don’t rely on burst damage combos.

All classes can be built to do almost anything you want. Go with the class that strikes you as fun to play, and don’t worry about how awesome the class is. There’s a build to do whatever you want with whatever you want.

People are pickin on the Ranger class..Well I wouldnt mind a little love, but I love my ranger. My bud and I play together almost every night, he plays a mesmer which looks fun but Ive out killed him in wvw. 1,000 kills in a month and I dont die a lot. I have to admit, I love to see other rangers out there cause they die so fast lol. When a thief is played right..using the exploits and all, they take out raids….mesmers are hard to kill cause all the confusion they cause and almost always get away but never kill me…but I havent lost to any tank class yet either, only been killed by 1 necro, never lost to an engeneer, and no elementalists have killed me although they do get away a lot. This is all 1v1….So if you want to just kill anyone you want at any time, play a thief, if you want to survive and have fun Id say mesmer or ele, but if you want to kill people with an underpowered class and actually feel like you did battle by the end of the night, Ill back the ranger!

Braxxus.2904:

DeckerDontPlay.1639:

That’s kind of the point of the class. (rendering issues removed)

Impossible to track, catch or defeat is a rediculous “point of the class”. It’s what some people might call broken, or OP/imbalanced.

Impossible to track and catch definitely falls within the class description. Impossible to defeat is an exaggeration.

DeckerDontPlay.1639:

Impossible to track and catch definitely falls within the class description. Impossible to defeat is an exaggeration.

Actually the impossible to defeat comes from the whole impossible to catch or track. If the thief decides “Oh hey, maybe I should escape” he can, at will, without issue. Yes, the majority of this issue is because of culling but the fundamental issue is because yet another game decided to have a class which goes invisible, evades and deals high damage as basic a class design. These classes have been an issue forever and will be an issue forever as the height of the “lame factor” and either OP, or massively nerfed into being UP. They are not balanced because the design itself is not balanced. The culling issue merely amplifies this into absurdity.

Braxxus.2904:

DeckerDontPlay.1639:

Impossible to track and catch definitely falls within the class description. Impossible to defeat is an exaggeration.

Actually the impossible to defeat comes from the whole impossible to catch or track. If the thief decides “Oh hey, maybe I should escape” he can, at will, without issue. Yes, the majority of this issue is because of culling but the fundamental issue is because yet another game decided to have a class which goes invisible, evades and deals high damage as basic a class design.

Except that what allows thieves to escape at will is mobility far moreso than it is culling or even stealth. Escaping at will using just stealth without mobility isn’t easy against competent people. Conversely escaping at will via Shadow Step and running off into the distance is completely viable without using stealth at all.

I’m fine with the argument that thief mobility allows them to exit fights too easily, that is at least a debatable point, but the “blame” keeps being incorrectly placed on stealth because that is the last thing people see thieves use before they escape.

BabelFish.7234:

Don’t listen to everyone saying how OP the thief is, they’re just butthurt because they have glass builds and are undergeared so backstab does 8-10k dmg to them.

Thiefs ARE good but they prey on players who don’t know what they are doing (and the stealth bug makes them invisible for longer then they are supposed to be which is a HUGE issue in WvW)

Elementals in PvE are squishy but good, Thiefs in PvE are god-like when played properly.

Backstab hit tank speced warriors for 9k+ in spvp. just check the structured pvp forum for proof, so what are you talking about?

Toughness has 0 impact, roll thief and faceroll.

Thief is probably the best Roamer scout class in WvW. As the QQ suggest, they exceed and taking down loaners who do not have exceptional skill. Ele’s can be pretty impressive, able to take down groups of 4 alone, and Mesmer’s can employ some insanely game changing tactics. Not sure about other classes, but they all seem to contribute in their own way. Just as I said, Thieves are by far the best at surviving alone. That said, if you play a thief, pick your battles carefully. Thief’s efficiency in battle sharply declines as you add more enemies. You’ll have to single out your targets, cause you have little to no chance if a group of enemies manage to catch you. And D/D, Thief’s most damaging weapon set in primarily single targeting. The main thing is, whatever you choose, keep an eye on where your enemies are, in large fight, keep an eye on the battle lines, overextend and you’ll probably die.

People tend to forget, BS thieves actually need full exotics before they are even a threat, pre-80 they can possibly 1v1 other sub-80’s, kill ‘em moderately fast if the opponent is clueless. Otherwise, you’ll die more than you kill and you will be targeted by other thieves more often than not, since you go down in one hit.

Thieves also have the lowest HP among all classes, and sorely depends on it’s tricks to survive (which I admit it has many). PVE can be frustrating if you don’t really learn up on how to play a thief.

Take what most people say about thieves with a grain of salt, yes, when fully geared, thieves can pretty much insta-gib you if you aren’t prepared. A bs thief automatically learns to hide, that’s just it’s nature, cause this insta-gib cuts two ways, he can kill in a few secs, and die in the same amount of time or less.

I strongly suggest you play a thief, only to see how ridiculously unaware vast majority of players are, they know you are thief, they see you shooting ‘em with a sb, but they choose to attack a guardian, and you just switch to d/d and kill ’em in a couple of seconds. That’s not a broken thief mechanic. That’s human stupidity. So, again, take what folks say on the forums, with a grain of salt.

Other classes are very viable as well, with the sad exception of ranger, you have to be really focused, obsessionally aware of your surroundings at every moment, and instantly adaptable in WvW. Rangers are fun, strong in pve, but plays poorly in pvp in most builds.

vsutra.8214:

People tend to forget, BS thieves actually need full exotics before they are even a threat, pre-80 they can possibly 1v1 other sub-80’s, kill ‘em moderately fast if the opponent is clueless. Otherwise, you’ll die more than you kill and you will be targeted by other thieves more often than not, since you go down in one hit.

every profession has to be 80 in full exotics to be competitive.

and the problem why many thieves go down very fast is the fact that they run fully glass canon. the’re able to run fully glass canon because they can disengage from combat whenever they want due to stealth. thats unique to thieves. every other profession will be perma death while running fully glass canon unless they hide themself in zerg. thats why all classes but thieves stack toughness and vitality on there items. they trade damage for survivability thus dealing fewer damage.

To me this is the source of all the issues with thieves in WvW.

teg.1340:

vsutra.8214:

People tend to forget, BS thieves actually need full exotics before they are even a threat, pre-80 they can possibly 1v1 other sub-80’s, kill ‘em moderately fast if the opponent is clueless. Otherwise, you’ll die more than you kill and you will be targeted by other thieves more often than not, since you go down in one hit.

every profession has to be 80 in full exotics to be competitive.

and the problem why many thieves go down very fast is the fact that they run fully glass canon. the’re able to run fully glass canon because they can disengage from combat whenever they want due to stealth. thats unique to thieves. every other profession will be perma death while running fully glass canon unless they hide themself in zerg. thats why all classes but thieves stack toughness and vitality on there items. they trade damage for survivability thus dealing fewer damage.

To me this is the source of all the issues with thieves in WvW.

A guardians wall of reflection works less if they are not on exotics? Mesmers portal is less effective? Group buffs, heals, etc. A thief brings little to nothing to WvW without full exotics. That’s a difference.

You’ve made some fairly generalizing statements, every other class is perma death on class glass cannon builds, if it’s that bad, as you say, isn’t human nature to change to something else? No? Cause those glass canons are effective in some way as well? Yes?

However frustrating it was to die on my ranger in WvW, I still never considered that it never contributed to wvw, matter of fact I really felt my ranger has contribute greatly to WvW, especially and during the leveling up period. On my thief however, I felt it contributed nothing to WvW except free badges during the leveling up period. That, is the difference between a thief poorly geared, as opposed to other classes.

If however, I played my thief wrong during low lvls in WvW, I stand corrected.

vsutra.8214:

A guardians wall of reflection works less if they are not on exotics? Mesmers portal is less effective? Group buffs, heals, etc. A thief brings little to nothing to WvW without full exotics. That’s a difference.

1. Scorpion wire, one of the only ways to pull enemies off walls, unaffected by exotics.
2. Scouting, an excellent natural role for thieves that can bring as much to the battlefield as a mesmer portal. Doesn’t require exotics since you aren’t usually fighting.
3. Group heal/stealth, doesn’t require any exotics for group utility.
4. Boons-on-steal, doesn’t require any exotics for group utility.
5. Spammable blast finishers, able to drop 4/5 consecutive AE heals, AE might, etc, doesn’t require any exotics for group utility.

So if we’re purely talking about a glass cannon backstab insta-killer thief, you’re right, they’re going to want exotics. It follows logically then, that if you don’t have exotics you ought to run a different role that you can excel at instead of trying to do it anyways and then coming to the conclusion thieves can’t do anything else.

naphack.9346:

Pikajew.8301:

I’m probably going to be making both anyway, but I’m going to start with an ele. Also, wasn’t there an ele nerf recently?

You mean this?

Profession Skills
Elementalist
Ride the Lightning: This skill should now track moving enemies more reliably.
Magnetic Grasp: This skill should now track moving enemies more reliably and end correctly when you reach your target.
Evasive Arcana: This trait no longer creates unintended blast finishers.
Ether Renewal: This skill’s cast time has been reduced from 4.75 to 3.5 seconds. There is no change to the total amount of healing.
Healing Rain: This skill’s tooltip now states the correct duration of 6 seconds.
Armor of Earth: This skill’s tooltip now states the correct duration of 6 seconds.
Churning Earth: This skill’s description no longer references “hold and release.”
Signets of Earth, Air, Fire, and Water: These skills should now have a cast animation while wielding a Fiery Greatsword.
Ring of Fire: This skill on Conjure Flame now lists itself as a Fire combo field.
Dragon’s Tooth: The blast finisher for this skill now triggers at the spell location rather than the character’s location.
Magnetic Wave: This skill’s missile-reflect portion now has an accompanying icon.
Phoenix: This skill’s tooltip now states the correct duration of 5 seconds of vigor that this skill applies.
Blasting Staff and Geomancer’s Alacrity: These traits now work together for the Eruption skill.
Mist Form: This skill now works with the Water Magic trait Cantrip Mastery.
Soothing Wave: This skill now properly applies regeneration to the elementalist when using Conjure Frost rather than only when the bow is picked up.
Healing Ripple: This skill’s scaling with healing power has been reduced by 50% in PvP only, as it had scaling that’s normally reserved for main healing skills. The maximum number of targets has also been reduced from infinite to 5.
Obsidian Focus: This Earth Magic trait now grants toughness when channeling the Stone Shards skill.
Ice Spike: This skill’s tooltip now states the correct amount of vulnerability when traited.
Conjure Frost Bow’s Deep Freeze: This skill now applies 1 second of chill per pulse, preventing extreme stacking of chill on a target.
Conjure Frost Bow’s Ice Storm: This skill now applies 5 seconds of bleeding per hit instead of confusion.
Tidal Wave: This skill’s responsiveness has been improved.
Tornado: Leaving this elite skill now removes the stability it grants in order to make it consistent with other elite transformation abilities.
Vapor Form: Fixed a bug that allowed this skill to contest a capture point.
Flame Axe: This weapon now grants the wielder power and condition damage.
Frost Bow: This weapon now grants the wielder increased condition duration and increased healing power.
Fiery Greatsword: This weapon now grants the wielder power and condition damage.
Magnetic Shield: This weapon now grants the wielder vitality and toughness.
Lightning Hammer: This weapon now grants the wielder increased precision and critical damage.

nerf much?
I only count 1 real nerf there, maybe 2. I markked the changes which actually did something beyond fixing tooltips.

Lot’s of them are actually bug fixes, and an improvement on the conjure weapons since they were so freaking weak.

The nerf is the Evasive arcana which will give us a lot less damage output (less might stacking) and healing ripple. On another note you could just tornado and out and still receive instability, since that was unintended they removed, but it still counts as a nerf.

Balidore.2790:

Eles ‘were’ skill based, and you only had to worry when you saw a good one. Now they made em easy to play, and kept their full faceroll effectiveness. So now anyone can do it. Which is why the insane dmg issue, those attacks used to be tough to pull off. Now you can do it all with a simple autotarget and a rotation.

Or maybe it’s because those ele’s have gotten better ? I don’t know what you’ve been watching but ele’s have had a constant train of nerfs, especially on the damage department. They USED to be easy and do plenty of damage where noobs could play them easily. Not anymore since a long time ago. And if you’re referring to the Conjure weapon buffs, those were never a viable option because they were just way too weak.

Tulisin.6945:

vsutra.8214:

A guardians wall of reflection works less if they are not on exotics? Mesmers portal is less effective? Group buffs, heals, etc. A thief brings little to nothing to WvW without full exotics. That’s a difference.

1. Scorpion wire, one of the only ways to pull enemies off walls, unaffected by exotics.
2. Scouting, an excellent natural role for thieves that can bring as much to the battlefield as a mesmer portal. Doesn’t require exotics since you aren’t usually fighting.
3. Group heal/stealth, doesn’t require any exotics for group utility.
4. Boons-on-steal, doesn’t require any exotics for group utility.
5. Spammable blast finishers, able to drop 4/5 consecutive AE heals, AE might, etc, doesn’t require any exotics for group utility.

So if we’re purely talking about a glass cannon backstab insta-killer thief, you’re right, they’re going to want exotics. It follows logically then, that if you don’t have exotics you ought to run a different role that you can excel at instead of trying to do it anyways and then coming to the conclusion thieves can’t do anything else.

You forgot haste-pistol-whip. My lev 20(!) thief got kills with that.
For the rest: fully agree. Most important stuff for a low lev thief:
infiltrator’s strike
pistol whip
scorpion wire
blinding powder/shadow refuge

Try a mesmer, lots of utility and they can give a fair fight to the thieves, most times when I fight a thief I tend to win(granted, the thief still gets away cause, you know, thief) Mesmers are good 1v1, they arent just fancy taxi services.

Guardians and Elementalists are also quite nice, got a healing/protection Guardian and a class cannon staff ele for melting things from walls or giving free loot to the enemy 1v1 :-)

Thiefs have a very good burst and can abuse the current rendering issue to be very OP and Mesmers can kill you without even casting there 1 skill. Its something like double dodge roll + utilities 6 to 0 then /sit as there clones kill your enemy.

Those are the 2 most wanted classes for WvW atm.

Ilesyt.7084:

naphack.9346:

Pikajew.8301:

I’m probably going to be making both anyway, but I’m going to start with an ele. Also, wasn’t there an ele nerf recently?

You mean this?

Profession Skills
Elementalist
Ride the Lightning: This skill should now track moving enemies more reliably.
Magnetic Grasp: This skill should now track moving enemies more reliably and end correctly when you reach your target.
Evasive Arcana: This trait no longer creates unintended blast finishers.
Ether Renewal: This skill’s cast time has been reduced from 4.75 to 3.5 seconds. There is no change to the total amount of healing.
Healing Rain: This skill’s tooltip now states the correct duration of 6 seconds.
Armor of Earth: This skill’s tooltip now states the correct duration of 6 seconds.
Churning Earth: This skill’s description no longer references “hold and release.”
Signets of Earth, Air, Fire, and Water: These skills should now have a cast animation while wielding a Fiery Greatsword.
Ring of Fire: This skill on Conjure Flame now lists itself as a Fire combo field.
Dragon’s Tooth: The blast finisher for this skill now triggers at the spell location rather than the character’s location.
Magnetic Wave: This skill’s missile-reflect portion now has an accompanying icon.
Phoenix: This skill’s tooltip now states the correct duration of 5 seconds of vigor that this skill applies.
Blasting Staff and Geomancer’s Alacrity: These traits now work together for the Eruption skill.
Mist Form: This skill now works with the Water Magic trait Cantrip Mastery.
Soothing Wave: This skill now properly applies regeneration to the elementalist when using Conjure Frost rather than only when the bow is picked up.
Healing Ripple: This skill’s scaling with healing power has been reduced by 50% in PvP only, as it had scaling that’s normally reserved for main healing skills. The maximum number of targets has also been reduced from infinite to 5.
Obsidian Focus: This Earth Magic trait now grants toughness when channeling the Stone Shards skill.
Ice Spike: This skill’s tooltip now states the correct amount of vulnerability when traited.
Conjure Frost Bow’s Deep Freeze: This skill now applies 1 second of chill per pulse, preventing extreme stacking of chill on a target.
Conjure Frost Bow’s Ice Storm: This skill now applies 5 seconds of bleeding per hit instead of confusion.
Tidal Wave: This skill’s responsiveness has been improved.
Tornado: Leaving this elite skill now removes the stability it grants in order to make it consistent with other elite transformation abilities.
Vapor Form: Fixed a bug that allowed this skill to contest a capture point.
Flame Axe: This weapon now grants the wielder power and condition damage.
Frost Bow: This weapon now grants the wielder increased condition duration and increased healing power.
Fiery Greatsword: This weapon now grants the wielder power and condition damage.
Magnetic Shield: This weapon now grants the wielder vitality and toughness.
Lightning Hammer: This weapon now grants the wielder increased precision and critical damage.

nerf much?
I only count 1 real nerf there, maybe 2. I markked the changes which actually did something beyond fixing tooltips.

Lot’s of them are actually bug fixes, and an improvement on the conjure weapons since they were so freaking weak.

The nerf is the Evasive arcana which will give us a lot less damage output (less might stacking) and healing ripple. On another note you could just tornado and out and still receive instability, since that was unintended they removed, but it still counts as a nerf.

Balidore.2790:

Eles ‘were’ skill based, and you only had to worry when you saw a good one. Now they made em easy to play, and kept their full faceroll effectiveness. So now anyone can do it. Which is why the insane dmg issue, those attacks used to be tough to pull off. Now you can do it all with a simple autotarget and a rotation.

Or maybe it’s because those ele’s have gotten better ? I don’t know what you’ve been watching but ele’s have had a constant train of nerfs, especially on the damage department. They USED to be easy and do plenty of damage where noobs could play them easily. Not anymore since a long time ago. And if you’re referring to the Conjure weapon buffs, those were never a viable option because they were just way too weak.

With d/d eles, people used to have to aim their charge attacks to do that insane dmg, then mix it with all the combo fields wherever they landed. Now they just auto go to the target, then combo in that spot. Makes a huge difference when you can let a noob do massive dmg and easy combo fields in a zerg.

Braxxus.2904:

Balidore.2790:

Mesmer has no dmg at all anymore, pretty much just annoy people while others kill. Mainly playing a haste/portal bot. Yet people will still complain due to them lacking situational awareness, and can’t tell the difference between a mindless clone, and a moving, dodging player using skills. I honestly wish they made mesmers back to the way they were, and just made the clones look like zombies or something so people can tell easier.

?
Phatasm/Shatter hybrid still kittens face against players 1v1 right up there with thief/ele effectiveness. It still has insane survivability build in to the class as well being the only other class capable of exploiting the culling issues on-demand like thieves.

Portal bombs are still the nuclear weapon technology of GW2 in WvW.

I’ve never had an issue fighting that build. I was referring to the gs and sword. Oddly enough…. after I made that post, that morning they restored the gs dmg, lol. Sword is still hitting for half of what it used to though. It’s pretty much the same as Pistol Whip or Hundred Blades, just does about 6k in the end, rather than 20k, lol (assuming all attacks hit). And has a longer cooldown.

Balidore.2790:

With d/d eles, people used to have to aim their charge attacks to do that insane dmg, then mix it with all the combo fields wherever they landed. Now they just auto go to the target, then combo in that spot. Makes a huge difference when you can let a noob do massive dmg and easy combo fields in a zerg.

Obviously you’ve never played ele.

Just because they fixed rtl doesn’t mean we’ve become so much stronger. in fact the nerf on Evasive arcana is bigger. We lose a lot more dps.

PS: We(d/d) only got 1 (and a half) combo fields, the half being the one with burning speed for a very small duration in a limited amount of space.

Also, an ele with auto-target off is stronger than one who has it one.