Guild Wars 2

Short answer:

Have 2 types of supply. One would be the supply as it currently exists, the other, new type would be just for workers and only usable by workers to upgrade structures.

Long answer:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/upgrading-world-vs-world-upgrades/

Anet recently showed us some of the changes to WvW that will come with HoT. They came up with some simple solutions to upgrade trolling, and eliminating the costs of upgrades. Bravo.

One of the changes is to have structures auto-upgrade. Yaks would not deliver supply, but rather time, making the structure upgrade faster. Either way, regardless of supply camps or yaks, the structure will upgrade. I am assuming this is to eliminate the supply trolls who try to waste supply in order to keep a structure upgrading. While it is a solution, I believe, and many others who’ve already expressed their doubts, and I’m sure, many more to come, think this is a mistake.

This change would take a large part of WvW strategy out of the game. This is a shame.

Some examples: if a keep is being sieged, defenders need to make hard decisions: do we use supply to repair the wall; do we use supply to build siege; do we keep it in the depot to try to get the structural upgrade; do we spare forces to try to escort a yak or flip a camp to start a yak?

Similarly, an API will most likely follow upgrade progress, so attackers will now just go after what structure is furthest away form upgrading and skip whatever is close to upgrading. Knowing this, defenders will be able to concentrate their forces on structures that are in the middle of their progress and be able to predict, to a reasonable extent, which structures are most vulnerable to attack.

Also, what about the workers? I guess there are no unions in Tyria. I’m sure they’re going to be thankfull that they are no longer the target of attackers, but they’re out of a job.

A very common problem that has already been stated many times is that for lower tier servers that have a dominating server, they will have easy, fully upgraded maps, while the other two servers will now have a harder as any effort to prevent that from happening by keeping camps flipped and killing yaks would be meaningless.

Having yaks not actually carrying supply and having supply camps not actually creating supply for yaks, and thereby structures, and rather delivering time just doesn’t make sense in the logical realm. But then again, it’s a fantasy game.

So, the proposed changes go to far. All this due to supply trolls (I’m assuming).

Solution:

Just dial it back a bit. Having yaks deliver actual supply is a good thing. But how do we eliminate supply trolls? Easy. Create two types of supply. One is the type that we all know and use to build siege and repair stuff. We would get these from the existing supply caches and the mechanics of yaks and camps works as it does now.

In addition, yaks would deliver a second type of supply that would just be for workers. This would make them a relevant part of the game again, much to their chagrin. Plus the supply piles could be an atmospheric part of the upgrade process. There could be piles of stone by the walls that would decrease in size as the upgrade is underway. Heavier timber piles for doors, and sheet metal piles for fortified walls. These supplies are untouchable by players, although it would remain to be seen whether the treb mastery would destroy them, as that hasn’t been addressed by Anet yet.

I think this is a simple, easy solution that would make everyone happy.

What are your thoughts to my idea?

I like it, though I have mixed feelings on eliminating the cost of upgrades, and I definitely don’t like the removal of player control over the process. Your compromise, however, would make the change a bit more endurable.

I don’t see no dilemma.

Leave alone a location, the NPCs improve it on their own.

This is perfect to give less populated worlds some breathing room, without the need of someone babysitting the location to upgrade them, freeing them to patrol the supply line.

From a RP point of view, yaks are still delivering supplies to Keeps/Towers only half of them can be used by players for building sieges and other stuff and the other half is kept in a private vault only used by the keep/tower. And I don’t find it hard to see keeps/towers from having a surplus of saved supplies to continue auto-upgrades without a stable supply line. This doesn’t break my immersion at all.

What this auto-upgrade system does, is tell me, ‘ef-off, solo-flipping camps means nothing now, small groups don’t make any impact to the grand scale of things, to play WvW you have to be in a blob’

They need to add a mechanic to stop the auto-upgrade, some sort of counter. All they have is a way to delay the upgrades. Auto-upgrade is way, way to overpowered. Though, I think its a step in the right direction.

Really I think the best fix is to make it so that instead of progressing automatically you need to get those yaks to the towers.

For example, to get from T0 to T1, you need to get 6 yaks to the tower. Time doesn’t matter.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/The-PERFECT-simple-solution-to-Auto-Upgrade/first#post5090301

Bumping……………..

Sarrs.4831:

Really I think the best fix is to make it so that instead of progressing automatically you need to get those yaks to the towers.

For example, to get from T0 to T1, you need to get 6 yaks to the tower. Time doesn’t matter.

I like this idea. If no yaks make it to the tower there is no progress on the tower.

So, In thinking about this whole thing more, I realized another, very big and bad consequence. I eluded to it in my op, but just wanted to flat out state it.

The current Hot change will promote zerging.

On this topic, since yaks/camps have less of an impact, more players will roll with the zerg. To stray from the topic: Anet’s counter to a map being fully upgraded is the central laser event. They’ve stated that this is something that smaller groups can do to help their server. However, this is just going to be a zergfest as well. If a dominating server has most structures fully upgraded, they are going to want to do whatever it takes to prevent the central event. The underdog server is going to want to complete the central event to open all the doors.

While this can be considered a good thing as it gets people out of structures, I forsee it not being anything like what Anet wants. Dominating servers will just camp the central event and have a smaller group respond to any minor havoc group that may be trying to take adantage of the enemy being out of position. If the dominating server structures are fully upgraded, odds are slim that the havoc team will be successful.

This would also be worse than spawn camping as a spawn has 3 exits. A disadvantaged population server will be forced to go to one place to gain a large advantage: the central laser.

Of course, all the above is a bit of too be determined as we haven’t seen the actual mechanics of the central event, but theoretically, its a fail in my eyes due to oversimplifying WvW by elimitating the importance of yaks, camps, and auto-upgrading.

supply will be used to build tons of ac’s, but few eles can nuke everything on wall while theres no one there and “fover’s” will use 1 or 2 ac’s to clean all siege in keep.

i dont see much action change due this.
tower/castles design has to many flaws, to easy to get the siege there.

Please keep this and other topics like it relevant in the threads.

MithranArkanere.8957:

I don’t see no dilemma.

Leave alone a location, the NPCs improve it on their own.

This is perfect to give less populated worlds some breathing room, without the need of someone babysitting the location to upgrade them, freeing them to patrol the supply line.

You mean the servers who are being capped and slowly upgraded while they don’t have the manpower to recap their own objectives? The same servers who already wake up to entirely enemy controlled bl’s? Now we get to bust fully upgraded bl’s instead of just paper because most night pvd’ers don’t bother upgrading.

Spurnshadow.3678:

The current Hot change will promote zerging.

According to critics, everything promotes zerging.

You can lower the population cap to 10 per side, someone will still say “omg look at that 10 man full border zerg!!!”.

Dawdler.8521:

Spurnshadow.3678:

The current Hot change will promote zerging.

According to critics, everything promotes zerging.

You can lower the population cap to 10 per side, someone will still say “omg look at that 10 man full border zerg!!!”.

tbh, that’s just a tad ridiculous, and I know myself have not said everything promotes zerging, but a number of the changes set to come with HoT could very well do just that.