Guild Wars 2

I would like to see other professions AoE stability effects made playable in wvw to promote build diversity.

Guardian has de facto a monopoly on AoE stability abilities in wvw. That monopoly comes from shout “Stand Your Ground” and trait “Indomitable_Courage”. Stability is the single most important boon in wvw group fights and any attempt to engage on a group of over 20 players without having stability is doomed to fail.

Here are guardian’s sources of AoE stability:

• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Stand_Your_Ground!%22
• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Indomitable_Courage

They are both great and meta defining skills. They give long enough stability and have good range (600 and 1200) so your allies get their stabi even if you aren’t standing exactly on top of them. They are both instant abilities (unless you are a dragon hunter), which makes using them much more convenient than other profession’s alternatives. Shout has a low cooldown and the trait has few ways to play around it’s long cooldowns. (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Courageous_Return and http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Renewed_Focus)

Other professions have some access to AoE stability for example:

• Revenant’s https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Inspiring_Reinforcement
• Engineer’s https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toss_Elixir_B
• mesmer’s https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mantra_of_Concentration
• Cronomancer’s http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Well_of_Precognition

These other professions do have some access to AoE stability, but it seems to pale in comparison with Guardian’s.

Well of Precognition and Inspiring Reinforcement only give stability if you stay inside the skill’s effect, in dynamic wvw fights that is often not good enough. In theory you would be able to drop these skills on your opponent and fight there, but the enemy usually moves away and these skills end up doing nothing.

Toss Elixir B and Mantra of Concentration seem to promise a good stability uptime. For example Elixir B when traited has only 16,25 seconds cooldown and the stability would last at least 5,75s unless removed. Mantra lets you drop the stability in small doses of 3 stacks for 2 seconds and recharge the skill when you are regrouping for example. But in practice these skills fail short too. Toss Elixir B takes time to cast and its radius is only 180. Power break has kinda long cooldown after you have used the charges and the area is small 240 radius too.

What I would like to see is these skills made a bit better so the Guardians wouldn’t be the only profession who gets to give stability to allies. I wouldn’t mind if the guardian would still remain the “Best” stability bringer, but in my opinion boosting the stability application for other professions would allow players to try out different group compositions and builds.

What kind of changes I am talking about? For example:

• Toss Elixir B radius increased to 600.
• Power Break radius increased to 600, cooldown reduced to 20 seconds.
• Inspiring Reinforcement stability time increased from 1 to 2 seconds.
• Well of Precognition stability time increased from 1 to 2 seconds.

These changes wouldn’t make the skills better than guardian’s AoE stability skills, but I believe they would make the skills more viable and we would see more mesmers and engineers in wvw group builds.

If you like my idea please show your support! If you think my idea is ~ok but could use some tweaking don’t hesitate to post your suggestion into the mix. If you think my idea is horrible tell that too! But please try to be gentle and don’t crush my hopes and dreams too violently.

I disagree specialisation gives classes a role like revenants have aoe boons of other types.

would rather they add new elite specs which add this sort of thing to the class

Would be nice to see those melee train mesmers and engineers made possible by changes like this, but the way I see this there is also a risk of introducing too much stability to meta. If every profession can drop stability on demand all CC could become entirely useless and meta would be just big melee trains driving trough any amount of walls and hammering all to oblivion.

Then again the changes that you suggest aren’t that over the top or anything. Toss elixir B would still only give 3 stacks and Mesmer would still need to charge those mantras.

I say would say yes to these suggestions.

Either the tooltip or the wiki is wrong; the tooltip says 600 radius on ID, same as all virtues/virtue effects.
Also: no. AoE stab is one of the last remaining things Guardian is useful for. Like you said, other classes can give stability to allies, but most aren’t so good in comparison mainly because those two skills are probably the best in the class’s kitten nal, and the guardian class lacks a lot of things other classes have like mobility. And with elite specs, more guard aspects have fallen behind the power curve. In terms of healing guardian is now outclassed. In terms of boonspam guardian is now outclassed.

Revenant stability should tick on when first casted.

Other than well of precog, the other skills are fine as is.

Without the wide range stability of SYG the guardian is not nearly as useful.

tappajabob.5983:

Well of Precognition and Inspiring Reinforcement only give stability if you stay inside the skill’s effect, in dynamic wvw fights that is often not good enough.

Mesmers WISH Well of Precognition was that good. As it stands the well itself doesn’t apply stab to other players, it’s only applied to the caster.

“The stability and stun break are only applied to the caster on skill activation, regardless of well location.” – GW2 Wiki

I agree with OP that Guardians are way too important in WvW group battles. No single class should be. And all the little boosts to other classes make the game more interesting and fun.

( : Sounds really good

I am a ranger player myself and if I could give AoE stabi as a ranger that would really make my day! Even like 4 stacks of stabi for 4 seconds every 24 seconds or something like that would be good for me : )

If they do that, it would be a relief. I can drop my guardian and use of the buffed classes that would give AoE stability since the other aspects of survivability and boon share and healing are quite frankly superior on other classes.

The only reason I play guardian is AoE stability. It would be good to be able to just be better it what I do for the group. If it means changing classes, so be it.

Just a random thought (and I’ve seen other’s question, too), is it that stab should be sprinkled around more classes or should it just be less important? I suppose that has huge implications for roamers/havok groups. Hmm.

Trait rock solid on an ele! That 1 stack of stab for 2,5 sec!! Party wide! Insaannee!

Let’s just eliminate guardian and parcel out what little it still does well to other classes.

LetoII.3782:

Let’s just eliminate guardian and parcel out what little it still does well to other classes.

Do you really think that those small changes to other profession’s stability skills would make guardian obsolete? Or am I just misreading you?

I think even with these changes the wvw guilds and pug groups would still have to rely on guardian as their main stability bringer, but hopefully some would get replaced by engineers and mesmers too.

tappajabob.5983:

LetoII.3782:

Let’s just eliminate guardian and parcel out what little it still does well to other classes.

Do you really think that those small changes to other profession’s stability skills would make guardian obsolete? Or am I just misreading you?

Is already useless in PvP (from near a year and counting) and is shadowed by other classes in PvE.

tappajabob.5983:

Do you really think that those small changes to other profession’s stability skills would make guardian obsolete? Or am I just misreading you?

I think even with these changes the wvw guilds and pug groups would still have to rely on guardian as their main stability bringer, but hopefully some would get replaced by engineers and mesmers too.

What does the guardian class offer besides instant AoE stability that other classes don’t already do better?

King Cephalopod.7942:

tappajabob.5983:

Do you really think that those small changes to other profession’s stability skills would make guardian obsolete? Or am I just misreading you?

I think even with these changes the wvw guilds and pug groups would still have to rely on guardian as their main stability bringer, but hopefully some would get replaced by engineers and mesmers too.

What does the guardian class offer besides instant AoE stability that other classes don’t already do better?

Might stacking?
Heals on a front line that actually does damage?
AoE Immob with hammer?
AoE swiftness spam?

Giving aoe stab to some other classes wouldn’t suddenly make the Guardian completely redundant. It may be one of their best features but it’s still just one of many. People still brought plenty of guards back when stab stacks evaporated instantly every .05 seconds in a zerg fight.

You could give AoE stab to the useless ‘non-astral’ form of the Druid elite sigil and it’s not like Rangers would suddenly replace guards in a team comp though Ranger might actually be worth a kitten in a zerg for the first time since ever.

Substance E.4852:

Might stacking?
Heals on a front line that actually does damage?
AoE Immob with hammer?
AoE swiftness spam?

Giving aoe stab to some other classes wouldn’t suddenly make the Guardian completely redundant. It may be one of their best features but it’s still just one of many. People still brought plenty of guards back when stab stacks evaporated instantly every .05 seconds in a zerg fight.

You could give AoE stab to the useless ‘non-astral’ form of the Druid elite sigil and it’s not like Rangers would suddenly replace guards in a team comp though Ranger might actually be worth a kitten in a zerg for the first time since ever.

Any class with a fire field and a blast finisher. Also Herald and PS Warrior.
AH frontliner has pretty bad healing. Unless you mean sustain, in which case: warrior.
You mean the 5 second ward that does no damage on a 40 second cooldown, or the 2 second line that can be outrun?
Herald.

You mean before HoT and all these elite specs? Even after, people brought warriors to PvP when they were considered trash tier; nothing’s going to stop some people from trying. Besides the potential of trivializing hard cc, giving stab to other classes would be fine, so long as guardian got some of everything else to compensate. Which nobody seems to be suggesting.

- Revenant running dwarf has a lot of stability.
- Elementalist running Earth line can have an AOE stability when they attune to earth.

Guardian isn’t great at much, it was nearly replaced by Revenant as a driving class and would have been if Revenants AOE stability was more practical.

Substance E.4852:

King Cephalopod.7942:

tappajabob.5983:

Do you really think that those small changes to other profession’s stability skills would make guardian obsolete? Or am I just misreading you?

I think even with these changes the wvw guilds and pug groups would still have to rely on guardian as their main stability bringer, but hopefully some would get replaced by engineers and mesmers too.

What does the guardian class offer besides instant AoE stability that other classes don’t already do better?

Might stacking?
Heals on a front line that actually does damage?
AoE Immob with hammer?
AoE swiftness spam?

Might stacking-> Warriors do it better.
Heals -> Eles and Druids do it better
AoE inmob -> Eles do it better, Druids do it better, Necros are also much better with soft cc.
AoE swiftness -> Warriors do it better; Heralds do it better as long as is a mele group moving very compact.

Substance E.4852:

King Cephalopod.7942:

tappajabob.5983:

Do you really think that those small changes to other profession’s stability skills would make guardian obsolete? Or am I just misreading you?

I think even with these changes the wvw guilds and pug groups would still have to rely on guardian as their main stability bringer, but hopefully some would get replaced by engineers and mesmers too.

What does the guardian class offer besides instant AoE stability that other classes don’t already do better?

Might stacking?
Heals on a front line that actually does damage?
AoE Immob with hammer?
AoE swiftness spam?

Giving aoe stab to some other classes wouldn’t suddenly make the Guardian completely redundant. It may be one of their best features but it’s still just one of many. People still brought plenty of guards back when stab stacks evaporated instantly every .05 seconds in a zerg fight.

You could give AoE stab to the useless ‘non-astral’ form of the Druid elite sigil and it’s not like Rangers would suddenly replace guards in a team comp though Ranger might actually be worth a kitten in a zerg for the first time since ever.

Wow, just no. Stability is the only thing Guardians have. Anet should fix our class and then we’ll be more than happy for other classes to get extra sources of stability. We’re the worst class in PvP and completely ignored for raids so WvW is all we have left.

Josh XT.6053:

- Revenant running dwarf has a lot of stability.
- Elementalist running Earth line can have an AOE stability when they attune to earth.

Guardian isn’t great at much, it was nearly replaced by Revenant as a driving class and would have been if Revenants AOE stability was more practical.

Well if there are plans in the works to improve revenant AOE stability so it’s practical in wvw, I hope this thread doesn’t ruin it.

I am so ready to switch the hour that happens. Move my gear over and go.

Sungtaro.6493:

Josh XT.6053:

- Revenant running dwarf has a lot of stability.
- Elementalist running Earth line can have an AOE stability when they attune to earth.

Guardian isn’t great at much, it was nearly replaced by Revenant as a driving class and would have been if Revenants AOE stability was more practical.

Well if there are plans in the works to improve revenant AOE stability so it’s practical in wvw, I hope this thread doesn’t ruin it.

I am so ready to switch the hour that happens. Move my gear over and go.

I wouldn’t mind having more options for larger group driving. I have a pretty nice Elementalist build that is good for driving, but the problem of having enough stability in pushes plagues every class, even guardians. Guardians just stand more of a chance because of the amount of stability they have lol.

They could consider increasing the radius of Rock Solid from 240 to 360-600. To go further, they could swap it with a grandmaster trait and let it apply 2 or 3 stacks of stability instead of just one.

I have some serious thoughts on this, I play all classes so I’m aware of the shortcomings of each.

After the recent stab changes, I switched back to my DH as main and havent looked back since. Druid might as well be shelved again, its not as horrible as vanilla rangers, but its still pretty kitten in comparison.

In general I would like to see more stab added to classes that lack it, but only on active skills, so that its players choice to run those skills and time / use them appropriately rather then rely on dumbed down auto-activating traits and AOE stab that promoted dumbed down gameplay.

Things I would like to see in the game regarding stability:

1. Buff, that’s right, buff Hallowed Ground. Its CD and stab stacks it provides are so bad that no self respecting guard or DH runs it. It is a useless skill from practical application aspect for anything other then novelty purposses. It would be nice for this skill to be actually used.

2. Add active stab components to classes that lack it. Druid/Ranger , thief in particular, but do it in such a way that it is a trade off for something and again, make it active rather then passive or AOE skill.

3. Mesmers mantra is useless not because its bad, its a great skill, but mesmers are almost always basically forced to run veil and portal + wells for alacrity + sometimes boonshare in meta groups, thus leaving no space for the mantra. I would like to see this addressed and somehow solved or at least improved so that a mes that doesn’t run veil, portal, and alacrity is not considered “fail” and has an actual place in frontline.

4. Buff Well of Power, or give a trait that specifically nerfs its damage component and turns it into a true stun-breaker and stab providing field. I think there would be many more necros running it then there are now.

5. Un-nerf some of the recent Scrapper nerfs. Scrappers do not have a lot of stab, but they didn’t need much due to other stuff they had and could very easily keep up with frontlines, now much less so. They need those nerfs somewhat undone if their flavor is to be preserved, or need another active stab skill.

6. Warriors are actually in a good spot now, I ran mine quite a bit to check it out and it felt just right. I wasn’t unkillable, but had plenty of stab and invulns to do what I needed to do.

7. Ele earth line needs a small boost on self stab tied to active skills. Perhaps an extra stack somewhere on skill activation.

Overall I do not want to see people rely on AOE stab and dumbed down gameplay, and I certainly do not want to see “useless classes” again as in the days of GWEN meta and would like to see the bottom classes to get a bit of a boost in the stab department.