Guild Wars 2

runeblade.7514:

Smaller groups of player will either learn how to deal with it, or cry more for their lack of skill and teamwork. If your small group aren’t skilled enough to kill zergs, then don’t kill zergs.

It is already proven that small groups can destroy large zergs already. Watch videos of 5 man groups killing 30+ zergs.

Its nice that everything you say is general statements with no proof of logic or example scenarios. All you can say is “get better noob”. Clearly you don’t want to debate or discuss about these issues, but just try to counter and mock what people are saying to be a kitten.

Yes 5 people can kill smaller zergs and im sure there are videos of it. But the quality of the zerg is probably rock bottom. But you run into a zerg that has a few competent people among the masses that can exploit what a small group has to do to fight a zerg (like stomping downed players), its probably game over for the small group.

Niim.9260:

4) I do not think this is a huge issue, certainly you can work around it. If combo fields limited its effects to the first 5-10 people triggering the field, so similar to the AoE limit, then it would be weaker for the zerg as its impact would be more random as to who is hit then with a group of 5.

This game is certainly different then others when it comes to zerg busting. You rely a lot more on movement and controlling the fight, then just bursting down your enemy. I enjoy it a lot.

Yep, you get a lot longer sustained fights where you really have to rely on your team, which is good, instead of gimmicks. Or likewise, more tired and simplistic tactics like just assist training everyone down in order, or busting into a fight with a coordinated AoE team and blasting a zerg to death in instants. People ask for that, because its all they know from past games, but its really not a very interesting combat style in reality. Rinse and repeat the same tactics, over and over, vs GW2 forcing constant adaptation and survival while whittling a zerg down.

Fighting a zerg with a smaller force in GW2 is more of a defensive test, rather than an offensive shock and awe one. This is a nice change up, since you end up having to rely on every ability and tool your character has, instead of just the same rote approach where every engagement is handled with the same recipe. In the end this is more challenging, which is good, and it is working as intended no doubt from Anets end. They don’t want masses of people AoE’d down in seconds. It’s not fun and people will leave.

Azgarn.2145:

runeblade.7514:

Smaller groups of player will either learn how to deal with it, or cry more for their lack of skill and teamwork. If your small group aren’t skilled enough to kill zergs, then don’t kill zergs.

It is already proven that small groups can destroy large zergs already. Watch videos of 5 man groups killing 30+ zergs.

Its nice that everything you say is general statements with no proof of logic or example scenarios. All you can say is “get better noob”. Clearly you don’t want to debate or discuss about these issues, but just try to counter and mock what people are saying to be a kitten.

Yes 5 people can kill smaller zergs and im sure there are videos of it. But the quality of the zerg is probably rock bottom. But you run into a zerg that has a few competent people among the masses that can exploit what a small group has to do to fight a zerg (like stomping downed players), its probably game over for the small group.

Well said Azgarn. Runeblade is most likely a “zerg baby”.

1) and 4) are incompatible

You want an aoe limit removed but you want a limit imposed on boons (more so than already has been imposed?)

Also if you want 25 stacks of might with five dudes you really only need one warrior (and someone who can drop a fire field). He summons a couple banners and everyone blasts them down.

That having been said I agree with removing AOE cap (but instituting AOE dropoff damage in return) and making downed state less OP.

Also stop calling people zerg “babies”. Zergs are the only viable way to take heavily fortified structures when there are actually defenders defending those structures. If there was a server than only had small group roamers they would lose very VERY fast, even if these changes were instituted. Small man groups should have every single direct combat disadvantage against larger groups, that’s how it works dude. Sometimes skill can overcome the numbers advantage.

Also if the zerg does happen to have a few decent players then they deserve to win, simple as that.

This game is already somewhat AoE centric in WvW and increasing the cap will only make that worse.

Also there is no guarantee that increasing the AoE cap will result in less zergs. There is this thing called the ‘Law of Unintended Consequences’

I challenge you to define what a zerg is?

In addition, I happen to like largescale battles. If I wanted predictable canned PvP with small even numbers I would SPvP.

I gotta say, I agree with increasing the AOE cap. However, people that complain about not being able to win in a 5v30+ are just… unrealistic. A decent zerg can and SHOULD be able to run over a small group of say, 5. I know, I know, I’m a “zerg baby,” right? Whatever.

The reality is that you CAN win in a 5v30 OVER TIME using TERRAIN. Take advantage of the zerg mentality and curl some of those little zerglings off. Kill the 6 or 7 that follow you. Then wash/rinse/repeat. If they catch on then switch things up. Set up an impromptu choke defense with a ballista. See a zerg at SW BL tower? Lure them into SW camp. Maybe string them out across the bridge. However, at no point should you expect to have an open field engagement of 5v30+ with the smaller team prevailing. The game would be broken if that did happen.

Of course, this won’t work if you run into a disciplined guild team of 30 people. Then again, that’s not really a ZERG, is it? I see people mistakenly calling large guild teams “zergs” a lot. A zerg, to me, is an uncoordinated mass of players with little to no teamwork. My 25 man guild team (consisting of 3 5 man squads and a 10 man team) is NOT a zerg and will run over your 5 man gank squad.

TL;DR – There are ways to negate large numbers, it’s the same thing you do in real warfare… shape the battlefield to your liking and lure them into YOUR battlefield. Large, organized guild teams should be able to kill 5 man teams.

Dabrixmgp.4758:

Isnt the AoE nerf going to make zerging even more mandatory? Its going to hurt rather than help.

No, It will force them to spread out, rather than"zergball". AoE has always been intended to be an “area denial” tool. With the current implementation, AoE has ZERO ability to force a zerg to relocate or die.

Not exactly true, stack the fire of 5 arrow carts on a spot and a zerg wont want to stand in it (or they die).

The problem with ‘hit everything in an aoe’ is twofold

1) Intense lag issues
2) Everyone will want to play AOE classes (the brightwizard problem of WAR) and get lazy and easy killcounts.

The reason zergs are powerful right now actually has little to do with aoe damage, rez mechanics, etc.

It has to do with the fact that there is only a very small amount of viable objectives in WvW, meaning that zerging is an effective strategy because you can count on Righteous Indignation to hold a camp for you against anything but a Zerg. Limiting that camp as a target for 5 minutes after you cap it.

Small teams are limited to harrassing supply routes and supply camps, and that is all good and fine until you realize that half the camps are going to have the RI buff when you get to them (camps flip often).

Secondly there are only a limited number of these open targets, so to fix it in the end anet needs to add more open but important objectives to wvw that is important to maintain, not just roll over cap it and leave.

WvW will open up more to small groups if RI is done away with. If RI is done away with I can hover near a camp, run away when a zerg shows up and recap it right after they leave if they refuse to leave people to defend. If they leave people to defend then we have more small skirmish options.

Outstanding, will anyone listen to you though?

osif.8673:

Thanks for not reading my whole post

I did read the whole post and I responded accordingly.

Bunzy.8674:

runeblade.7514:

Bunzy.8674:

Can you link me these 5v30+ videos. I will be counting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-919RMwyfnk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ClIzBWTVIPU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MKNsSzZBag

I don’t feel like venturing to the deepest part of youtube to find more of these. I just wish Youtube clean out beta videos that no one cares about right now.

In none of them videos is there 30+ enemies. I think you should count them.

Maybe you should watch it.

portal has a limit of 20 players right?
why cant the AOE limit be 20? sounds fair to me

If they did that AoE would be too powerful. Like Bright Wizards in WAR.

aoe would be powerfull but it would also make the zergs play smarter than just “hey lets all hold hands and take this tower/keep so only 5 of us get hit”

Just give up already, this game was made to be easily accessible and make everyone feel like a winner. There is an incredibly low skill cap in the game, only overcome by group coordination, which in turn is completely negated by the mechanics you mentioned when the fight is over 2-1 odds. Just because they claim to copy Daoc, doesn’t mean this will ever be daoc. There is no mechanics to punish bad play. This game will continue to be a mass skill spam and the mechanics are too far in that direction to change it.