Guild Wars 2

Thesilentflute.8761:

Depending on the time it is done it can have a huge effect or none at all. If it is done early in the week it can turn the tide for the whole week by granting a server a foothold where they would not normally. If done late in the week or in the jp it has little to no effect on the outcome.

In the NA T1 match up 2 weeks ago bg had a 10-20 k lead a bg guild was challenged to a gvg and pretty much gave up the whole map during it(a pve guild at that) because of this offset sor gained the lead by mid week. Lucky enough for bg a sor guild was foolish enough to organize a gvg before they got to far ahead and bg was able to pull ahead by 10k in the end.

Turning the tide of battle is not a hard, but “GvG” happens to directly question the value of the achievement set upon.

Personally I doubt GvG turns the tide of battle, but assuming you are right this is a server issue. If you do not want your guilds GvGing at specific times/locations then take that up with them. The vast majority of the game stopped thinking PPT meant anything more then coverage months ago and could care less unless they win the lottery and actually get a close matchup.

It is a server issue, but not just a server issue I doubt other servers are as close nit as blackgate and you don’t…. get close match ups… you make them.

Ragnar.4257:

And Sun Tzu is totally relevant to a video game where you can respawn an infinite number of times. Totally relevant.

^ a "GvG"er on strategy

Why is winning tier 1 important?

Are the rewards over the top omg amazing? Nope.

Why not have fun instead of trying to have top ppt 24/7.

Thesilentflute.8761:

^ a "GvG"er on strategy

There is no strategy in wvw eu side. The server with the higher offpeak presence wins, the end, no exceptions.
WvW matches are just different over here

Thesilentflute.8761:

It is a server issue, but not just a server issue I doubt other servers are as close nit as blackgate and you don’t…. get close match ups… you make them.

Seems like the problem is easily fixed for you then. Given that BG is a special snowflake in the ‘close nit’ department you can all just agree not to GvG. JQ doesnt GvG at all and they have no guilds that would even be capable. That leaves SoR who cant GvG by themselves. Problem solved for all the T1 servers that actually still care about coverage wars.

The rest of the game can continue with their GvGs.

It would be best if all gvg guilds in tier 1 moved to lower tiers and left the zerg balling, ppt loving players in the “top tier”.

Since no skill is required up in those ranks anyway, this should have little to no effect on your precious coverage.

Caid.4932:

Thesilentflute.8761:

^ a "GvG"er on strategy

There is no strategy in wvw eu side. The server with the higher offpeak presence wins, the end, no exceptions.
WvW matches are just different over here

Thats a bummer we built some pretty well rounded servers in NA jq bg and sor are pretty much 24/7 with dragonbrand and tc close behind.

Yep and WvW in Tier 1 and Tier 2 NA is more like a job and less like a game for fun.

I have a suggestion: Since EU seems more accomodating to GvG, why don’t all the guilds interested in GvG head over there, and leave the WvW ppt meta folks NA? Then those protesting a couple hours during a week of GvG time can see the real impact of these guilds they are so maligning.

Just a thought.

Jayne.9251:

Yep and WvW in Tier 1 and Tier 2 NA is more like a job and less like a game for fun.

I have a suggestion: Since EU seems more accomodating to GvG, why don’t all the guilds interested in GvG head over there, and leave the WvW ppt meta folks NA? Then those protesting a couple hours during a week of GvG time can see the real impact of these guilds they are so maligning.

Just a thought.

Not sure anyone would go for increased latency in a competitive matchup.

Latency is a myth in EU. Have played both sides — NA since beta and EU since June. Lag/latency is exactly the same in NA as it is in EU — bigger zergs = more lag. Exactly the same. There was an issue in mid-June where there was unplayable lag, but it was a problem on Anet’s end that they tweaked, and had nothing to do with latency. NA players were reporting the same issues. And I haven’t had a problem since they tweaked whatever they tweaked, lol. And aren’t the servers housed in the same building in Texas? Thought I read that somewhere, but I could be wrong.

Jayne.9251:

Yep and WvW in Tier 1 and Tier 2 NA is more like a job and less like a game for fun.

I have a suggestion: Since EU seems more accomodating to GvG, why don’t all the guilds interested in GvG head over there, and leave the WvW ppt meta folks NA? Then those protesting a couple hours during a week of GvG time can see the real impact of these guilds they are so maligning.

Just a thought.

NA “Tier 1” is the only unaccommodating group and where most of the dissent comes from. TC and DB very much accept GvG’s and openfield fights. All the servers below them are fine with GvG’s aswell. Tier 1 is a slave to ppt.

Jayne.9251:

Latency is a myth in EU. Have played both sides — NA since beta and EU since June. Lag/latency is exactly the same in NA as it is in EU — bigger zergs = more lag. Exactly the same. There was an issue in mid-June where there was unplayable lag, but it was a problem on Anet’s end that they tweaked, and had nothing to do with latency. NA players were reporting the same issues. And I haven’t had a problem since they tweaked whatever they tweaked, lol. And aren’t the servers housed in the same building in Texas? Thought I read that somewhere, but I could be wrong.

As far as I know the EU servers are located in Germany (Belfast?). Pinging off of servers half the world away will compound the existing lag issues needlessly. Latency doesn’t play a huge issue in modern architectures (unless its a DSL connection) until you start getting into distances of that magnitude. Maybe if were talking a full fiber optic connection, it’d be reasonable.

Well all I can tell you, aside from a week and a half in June, is I haven’t noticed any difference in latency/lag/gameplay between NA and EU. I live in North America.

He said up in the thread that he doesn’t GvG, so who are you talking to? Queues aren’t a problem in T2 and below and the servers seem to be quite accepting of the windmill fights. T1 can continue to be irrationally obsessed with PPT. The rest of us are having fun, so everyone can stop complaining. This is actually a problem that doesn’t exist. The real issue is what Anet might do to screw our servers over. I really don’t care what you do up in T1, and Maguuma having played JQ only once is still one time too many. So insanely boring, and Anet should realize that. Those obsessively complaining about GvGs are quite the minority.

Benjamin.6235:

Clockradio.3257:

Thesilentflute.8761:

Deadcell.9052:

…

…

The only problem is you have to get into EB first, which on most servers is the first map with a queue, has the longest queue, and is the last to come off of queue after primetime is over.

He said up in the thread that he doesn’t GvG, so who are you talking to? Queues aren’t a problem in T2 and below and the servers seem to be quite accepting of the windmill fights. T1 can continue to be irrationally obsessed with PPT. The rest of us are having fun, so everyone can stop complaining. This is actually a problem that doesn’t exist. The real issue is what Anet might do to screw our servers over. I really don’t care what you do up in T1, and Maguuma having played JQ only once is still one time too many. So insanely boring, and Anet should realize that. Those obsessively complaining about GvGs are quite the minority.

First I said if.

There are three types of the if-clauses.

type condition
I condition possible to fulfill
II condition in theory possible to fulfill
III condition not possible to fulfill (too late)

I am using present tense which mean it still possible to fulfill in near future. (as long as the guild is not disbanded) or it can fail now. Beside what I write is not only for him, but for anyone who wish GvG only. (I dunno about TSYM in SoR is same with TSym from SoS which moved to SoR. TSym from SoS had done GvG with EMP (JQ) before.)

You said T1 can continue to be irrationally obsessed with PPT. I also can said you can continue to be irrationally obsessed with GvG. (And do you think these people in T1 are not having fun ?)

But put above aside. What I said: You should do it GvG in EB JP. This will not take any space in BL or EB. If you still want to do it: If your Tier (your enemy and your server) can accept this GvG event in BL or EB (queue or not queue), good then. If not, your guild should move or do it in EB JP.

If your server is good enough GvG’s wont effect your PPT, here on Piken we have queues for all borders during primetime. Yet we still have 1-2 GvG’s going most nights of the week(not so much weekends), we also are always the server with the highest PPT during primetime(lol we don’t even really care about points but thats another story). The only reason a GvG would really effect your server is because the guild doing GvG are the ones that do the most dmg for your server and everyone else is just riding that guilds coattails.
With regards to the latency issue, we have 100’s of NA(timezone) based players in the EU yet none of them have problems with it. It’s a myth that has been spread around, in other games(not many nowadays) and years ago yes it was a problem but within GW it isn’t(just look at RG(for example) did they suffer latency issues when they visited the NA servers, no they still won their GvG’s without problems).

Good post! The GvG scene in NA is definitely there and growing, but nowhere near you EU guys. There are a lot of newer guilds interested in GvG in NA and it’s refreshing to see some new talent out there! Just wish we could get more fights during the week!

Keep it civil!

Jayne.9251:

Yep and WvW in Tier 1 and Tier 2 NA is more like a job and less like a game for fun.

I have a suggestion: Since EU seems more accomodating to GvG, why don’t all the guilds interested in GvG head over there, and leave the WvW ppt meta folks NA? Then those protesting a couple hours during a week of GvG time can see the real impact of these guilds they are so maligning.

Just a thought.

Unfortunately there are probably a lot of people who also still have server loyalty in WvW for some reason (like this idiot right here, mag4lyfe). Also if the other guy’s theory is correct, then NA guilds shifting to EU WvW will just add better coverage and then it might be like T1 NA, which is good or bad (bad) depending on your opinion. Clearly we just all need second accounts only for GvG!

Jayne.9251:

Latency is a myth in EU. Have played both sides — NA since beta and EU since June. Lag/latency is exactly the same in NA as it is in EU — bigger zergs = more lag. Exactly the same. There was an issue in mid-June where there was unplayable lag, but it was a problem on Anet’s end that they tweaked, and had nothing to do with latency. NA players were reporting the same issues. And I haven’t had a problem since they tweaked whatever they tweaked, lol. And aren’t the servers housed in the same building in Texas? Thought I read that somewhere, but I could be wrong.

untrue. as someone who came to EU from NA, there is a bit more lag. i had 25ms ping in NA, the servers are in Austin, TX – that is correct. in EU i get 150ms avg with spikes to 300ms at times. the EU datacenters are in Germany I believe.

Darius Glazkov.9750:

Jayne.9251:

Latency is a myth in EU. Have played both sides — NA since beta and EU since June. Lag/latency is exactly the same in NA as it is in EU — bigger zergs = more lag. Exactly the same. There was an issue in mid-June where there was unplayable lag, but it was a problem on Anet’s end that they tweaked, and had nothing to do with latency. NA players were reporting the same issues. And I haven’t had a problem since they tweaked whatever they tweaked, lol. And aren’t the servers housed in the same building in Texas? Thought I read that somewhere, but I could be wrong.

untrue. as someone who came to EU from NA, there is a bit more lag. i had 25ms ping in NA, the servers are in Austin, TX – that is correct. in EU i get 150ms avg with spikes to 300ms at times. the EU datacenters are in Germany I believe.

I’m wondering if it’s ISP related because I honestly get the exact same lag/latency in NA as I do in EU. Exact same.

Jayne lives in a cruise ship floating between here and Germany!! But yes from all accounts I’ve heard it’s very much YMMV. Or perhaps it’s just perceived latency vs actual latency.

Ooh wouldn’t I be fancy if that were true

I have two accounts, one on NA and one on EU …. I’ve checked ping/fps/latency on both at various times and they’re pretty similar. Maybe it’s just really good Internet in the Great White North :p

I guess my main point is that the hype about EU latency is mostly that …. Hype.

Jayne.9251:

Ooh wouldn’t I be fancy if that were true

I have two accounts, one on NA and one on EU …. I’ve checked ping/fps/latency on both at various times and they’re pretty similar. Maybe it’s just really good Internet in the Great White North :p

Good internet in Canada? Hmmmm nope, doesn’t sound believable, from things I hear. :P

saiyr.3071:

Jayne.9251:

Ooh wouldn’t I be fancy if that were true

I have two accounts, one on NA and one on EU …. I’ve checked ping/fps/latency on both at various times and they’re pretty similar. Maybe it’s just really good Internet in the Great White North :p

Good internet in Canada? Hmmmm nope, doesn’t sound believable, from things I hear. :P

There’s only so much you can do when playing on an oil powered computer inside our igloos while there is a blizzard outside =p

The issue with NA guilds moving to EU isn’t the latency or lag, it’s the time change. I wouldn’t wanna stay up to 2am on a weeknight to fight a guild (if I was EU) and I wouldn’t want to have to take off work to fight a guild at 3pm (since I’m NA). Simple as that.

Jayne.9251:

Ooh wouldn’t I be fancy if that were true

I have two accounts, one on NA and one on EU …. I’ve checked ping/fps/latency on both at various times and they’re pretty similar. Maybe it’s just really good Internet in the Great White North :p

I guess my main point is that the hype about EU latency is mostly that …. Hype.

i do as well, however i’m gulf coast central. if you live in the north east US, you would actually have a similar ping to both datacenters. you would have probably 80ms to the NA servers and 120ms or so to the EU servers, depending on local routing.

saying there is no lag difference is relative to where you live.

LilMcGinley.3890:

The issue with NA guilds moving to EU isn’t the latency or lag, it’s the time change. I wouldn’t wanna stay up to 2am on a weeknight to fight a guild (if I was EU) and I wouldn’t want to have to take off work to fight a guild at 3pm (since I’m NA). Simple as that.

The time differnce is what 5-7 hours, so for an arranged GvG wouldn’t be much of a problem(6pm for you would be 11pm for majority of EU guilds). EU guild members would be willing to stay up a little later for a good GvG. Plus theres always the weekends.

Ragnar.4257:

Can you do 20v20 in sPvP? No? Enough said.

when did you people decide GvG is where you fight 20v20 or 15v15?

Did you people consider all the balance factors? Are you guild wars 2 designers? No? Enough said.

if they ever reintroduce GvG where you fight 8v8 I hope you guys don’t complain about it, this is just a mini-game mode made by the community I really don’t consider it GvG at all…..

Art.9820:

Ragnar.4257:

Can you do 20v20 in sPvP? No? Enough said.

when did you people decide GvG is where you fight 20v20 or 15v15?

Did you people consider all the balance factors? Are you guild wars 2 designers? No? Enough said.

if they ever reintroduce GvG where you fight 8v8 I hope you guys don’t complain about it, this is just a mini-game mode made by the community I really don’t consider it GvG at all…..

I direct you to point 7.

Darius Glazkov.9750:

Jayne.9251:

Ooh wouldn’t I be fancy if that were true

I have two accounts, one on NA and one on EU …. I’ve checked ping/fps/latency on both at various times and they’re pretty similar. Maybe it’s just really good Internet in the Great White North :p

I guess my main point is that the hype about EU latency is mostly that …. Hype.

i do as well, however i’m gulf coast central. if you live in the north east US, you would actually have a similar ping to both datacenters. you would have probably 80ms to the NA servers and 120ms or so to the EU servers, depending on local routing.

saying there is no lag difference is relative to where you live.

“Technically” there might be a difference, but you don’t feel it. My instacast skills such as Shouts and Cantrips go off the instant they’re selected. I live in the western part of the states but play on a French server and don’t have any problems with latency.

LilMcGinley had it right, the time difference is the issue with NA GvG guilds coming over. Our guild raids start at 11 am for me so people with normal jobs/schedules would be kind of screwed over.

Art.9820:

Ragnar.4257:

Can you do 20v20 in sPvP? No? Enough said.

when did you people decide GvG is where you fight 20v20 or 15v15?

Did you people consider all the balance factors? Are you guild wars 2 designers? No? Enough said.

if they ever reintroduce GvG where you fight 8v8 I hope you guys don’t complain about it, this is just a mini-game mode made by the community I really don’t consider it GvG at all…..

I’d personally say: smaller groups -> worse balance.
Seriously, the class balance in this game from a competetive view is really, really bad (condition dmg for example lol). So people found out that using the direct combat system and the already in-game COMBO system is a lot of fun AND evens out the playing field on the balance front for a bit. The thing is, you need more people for that.
8v8 is the weirdest number you could ask for(except if you really want highlander mode). Not even the combo system could get used to its full potential.
So why not use the things that make the game fun?

8 is probably a combination of DAOC and GW1 players. At least that’s my theory.

OCD #8 lovers

Ragnar.4257:

Art.9820:

Ragnar.4257:

Can you do 20v20 in sPvP? No? Enough said.

when did you people decide GvG is where you fight 20v20 or 15v15?

Did you people consider all the balance factors? Are you guild wars 2 designers? No? Enough said.

if they ever reintroduce GvG where you fight 8v8 I hope you guys don’t complain about it, this is just a mini-game mode made by the community I really don’t consider it GvG at all…..

I direct you to point 7.

Still not answer my question, if they reintroduce gvg 8v8 will you be ok with it or not?

I will just add a 9 point…

9. Is it fair that we ask for a totally new game mode and maps? well if they don’t we will just keep doing our thing

I’m the living proof of GvG screwing with queue, everyone hates it but still that never stops guilds from doing GvG or am I wrong?

This is one of the reasons of why I left JQ like 6 months ago (when they had more Zerg vs Zerg guilds), I got tired of these selfish guilds taking space and not letting others enjoy the game as well

Most of your points are mere subjective excuses that don’t apply to everyone but what you’re doing is a fact that affect others

It would be like asking for a candy and until you don’t get it you will keep crying and sadly this is how most of ZvZ’ers are…

I really hope that Anet comes up with a solution because I do understand the anger of some posters here, because lets be honest you are not helping that much with this issue :P the way you guys ask for things is just wrong….

JQ doesn’t GvG so that point is moot. Most GvGs outside of T1 in NA will not cause any queues.

Being #1 in NA ppt gathering is serious business.

Slomo.1029:

Art.9820:

Ragnar.4257:

Can you do 20v20 in sPvP? No? Enough said.

when did you people decide GvG is where you fight 20v20 or 15v15?

Did you people consider all the balance factors? Are you guild wars 2 designers? No? Enough said.

if they ever reintroduce GvG where you fight 8v8 I hope you guys don’t complain about it, this is just a mini-game mode made by the community I really don’t consider it GvG at all…..

I’d personally say: smaller groups -> worse balance.
Seriously, the class balance in this game from a competetive view is really, really bad (condition dmg for example lol). So people found out that using the direct combat system and the already in-game COMBO system is a lot of fun AND evens out the playing field on the balance front for a bit. The thing is, you need more people for that.
8v8 is the weirdest number you could ask for(except if you really want highlander mode). Not even the combo system could get used to its full potential.
So why not use the things that make the game fun?

Yea I’m only using the old gvg as an example because there’re a lot of factors to consider, i.e. I don’t think everyone out there can play 20v20, and I don’t think anet is going to release a game mode just for people with fast connections, that alone would bring a lot more complains for em lol

All I’m saying, if they ever introduce this, do not have high expectations to be like what you guys are doing right now….

I am sure if they come up with something fun (ie not sPvP) then nobody will complain. Well, not nobody, but you get the idea.

Art.9820:

I really hope that Anet comes up with a solution because I do understand the anger of some posters here, because lets be honest you are not helping that much with this issue :P the way you guys ask for things is just wrong…

The way Arena Net alienated their PvP fanbase is wrong. No one has the right to fail and not suffer the consequences of that action. Especially when that failure is found to take root in that ones own arrogance and over-ambition. These developers deserve every bit of anger and hate both pro-GvG and anti-GvG players are throwing at them. They have brought it on themselves.

Saint Scarlet.2906:

LilMcGinley.3890:

The issue with NA guilds moving to EU isn’t the latency or lag, it’s the time change. I wouldn’t wanna stay up to 2am on a weeknight to fight a guild (if I was EU) and I wouldn’t want to have to take off work to fight a guild at 3pm (since I’m NA). Simple as that.

The time differnce is what 5-7 hours, so for an arranged GvG wouldn’t be much of a problem(6pm for you would be 11pm for majority of EU guilds). EU guild members would be willing to stay up a little later for a good GvG. Plus theres always the weekends.

Well if you take Agg, they are a PST guild, that’s north of 7 hours no matter what. If they start at 6pm PST, that’s 1am for you guys (2am for London)

(I pick Agg because they #1 and EU wants them but also bc i know when they play)

Yes, but many of the top EU GvG guilds have indicated they’d find a way to make it work for AGG.

Jayne.9251:

Yes, but many of the top EU GvG guilds have indicated they’d find a way to make it work for AGG.

I know. I was just saying, the time zone is the reason NA/EU guilds don’t move over, not latency.

Keep it positive guys.

Another misconception is that, because there is no current game mode for gvg activity, it doesn’t have legitimacy in GW2.

The problem with that is that people do want it, and have already created the framework for it. There are hundreds of players engaging in it and those numbers keep growing.

It can’t be ignored and it wont go away any time soon. The more people that post in this thread, good or bad, the more this topic stays at the top for everybody to see.

So keep bumping this thread haters. We appreciate it :D

Jayne.9251:

Latency is a myth in EU. Have played both sides — NA since beta and EU since June. Lag/latency is exactly the same in NA as it is in EU — bigger zergs = more lag. Exactly the same. There was an issue in mid-June where there was unplayable lag, but it was a problem on Anet’s end that they tweaked, and had nothing to do with latency. NA players were reporting the same issues. And I haven’t had a problem since they tweaked whatever they tweaked, lol. And aren’t the servers housed in the same building in Texas? Thought I read that somewhere, but I could be wrong.

Wanna know how i know you don’t have Verizon?

Cause Verizon is guaranteed lag to overseas. It turns out the carrier they use to interface to the trans-atlantic cable sucks kitten to the point where you’re guaranteed 1000ms ping or more to the EU servers.

Don’t get it twisted I want you guys to be able to do what ever you enjoy as long as it does’t effect me. I saw a post about world pvp and it hit me if they added a flagging system like the pve servers in wow had that did not flag your reped guild the whole world could be your playground, other guilds could guest over, and you would not be effecting wvw.

Thesilentflute.8761:

Don’t get it twisted I want you guys to be able to do what ever you enjoy as long as it does’t effect me. I saw a post about world pvp and it hit me if they added a flagging system like the pve servers in wow had that did not flag your reped guild the whole world could be your playground, other guilds could guest over, and you would not be effecting wvw.

The thing you fail to understand is that we hardly affect WvW because of a GvG match. The influence is minimal and always negligible in the long run. The only thing you could dislike is that while some play/watch a GvG that you have to sit in queue but that is hardly a valid reason. I may disapprove of people who run behind a commander with 60 people at least but I understand that they have a right to be there even if what they do is not playing the game ‘right’ or efficient.

Ragnar.4257:

If the guilds who enjoy GvG were to leave your server, your server would drop several tiers within the space of a week. I’m not even exaggerating. These are WvW guilds that spend countless hours tearing down T3 keeps, busting zergs, and propping up your server, and you can’t even let them have 1 hour a week for some rest and relaxation?

I even have proof of this!
Wbc left whitesideridge and moved to gunnarshold, Currently Whitesideridge is loosing to vabbi right now!

Worth a read for those that have questions.