Guild Wars 2

Great stuff as always Ogro.
but I really dont get why people are comparing random zerging to GvG, it really is much more than that :S

good stuff, but might i suggest u keep one single thread instead of making a new one everytime?

will be easier to for people who follow this and will keep the trolls from spamming the same kitten in every thread.

These are great, looking forward to the next one keep ’em coming.

Thanks for the feedback guys, its what keeps me going
Working on having collabo commentator for this one on some fights, still working it out. Expect release tomorrow.
Tsunderes are always a good thing Yaro :P

Another awesome video from the master of the clunge.

Episode 3 enjoy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLu0-1NjTlc

Loving the show so far and learning a lot from watching them. Keep up the good work.

GJ as always Ogro, and your natural voice is indeed better

Regarding GD vs ZDs I’ve noticed a couple of things.

First, GD is quicker on regroups and do not do them that often. Quicker not by much, but it is all it takes to apply constant pressure to opponent and keep them on their toes thus forcing them to always be in defensive position.

Second, ZDs seem to stick to old classical raid meta and as a result they don’t apply enough pressure when their train goes through opponent’s train. Obviously I may be wrong here, but it it almost looked like ZDs were just trying to get through GD lines to the next regroup safely, not doing much of a damage in the process.

Wow Yaro I abscribe to that analysis completely, good eye

Nice video Ogre.
Adding the 2nd commentator was a nice touch. Look forward to the next one

There will always be those who see anything more then 5v5 and Q _ Q about it beeing “zerging.” I really enjoy GvG and equal fights of any number. I not play GW1 but I really enjoy what we, the community, have made GvG here.

Pure open-field combat,<3 no dumb ‘control your points, seize theirs!’

I enjoyed the vidi but narking on/cursing at that one war for making a mistake was abit much^^;

If you are talking about Noobs..erm, Godspeed, we are friends, Laii, so you know how that goes :P Tbh he does go for a banner on downed which is more selfless, but ive always been a “save yourself first” kinda guy I almost removed it but I thought it was funny (poor Filipe rly)

That was episode 2 tho, be sure to watch numero 3 !

Ogro and Filipe should make a guardian guide, it would be great. Actually, most of guardians in NA still playing with healing power, rofl.

Dico.4815:

Actually, most of guardians in NA still playing with healing power, rofl.

Oh really? I’ll make sure to plan my next vacation trip to NA servers to witness this miraculously preserved memorial of ancient past.

Seriously though, that would make a great material for the show – not only talk about and showcase fights themselves but also discuss current raid composition metas, latest build trends, tactical tidbits etc.

Any chance Extraordinary Gentlemen [EXG] could be verified on the gw2gvg list? Been a while since actually. Much appreciated!

Nonetheless, great epi again Ogro! Keep it up!

Will [Scnd] and [GD] be facing off this week?

Grotesque.6479:

Any chance Extraordinary Gentlemen [EXG] could be verified on the gw2gvg list? Been a while since actually. Much appreciated!

Nonetheless, great epi again Ogro! Keep it up!

To clarify, although GvG Showdown is shown at gw2gvg, they are both different projects. Ogre is the man behind GvG showdown and I’m the one responsible for gw2gvg.

If there are any questions about gw2gvg you can contact me.

In your case, every guild that is visible on the leaderboard has been verified, in otherwords, EXG has already been verified. The login details are sent per email to the email address given on registration, it could happen that the email is stuck in your spam inbox.

If you have any other questions feel free to PM me.

Rumor is GD proposed and Scnd declined Runty… leader on hiatus or something. Truly underwhelming.

Edit- lol MartyPartys & me posting at the same time confirming everyones suspicions

Ogre.1750:

Rumor is GD proposed and Scnd declined Runty… leader on hiatus or something. Truly underwhelming.

Sadly Sylas is on holiday, and Seth is MIA, so we can’t really set up anything official. I believe we contacted GD on Friday to be upfront about the situation.
However, we did do some scrims last night with Godspeed leading, before pugs decided to interrupt. Easily some of the most intense fights i’ve ever had. Massive props to GD, can’t wait for the next round

Omg i just saw the GD vs Scnd scraps and almost peed my pants, holy ghost, insane rounds. The game evolves, the meta sharpens, i could see it. Incredible technical details, insane lvl… long exhausting rounds that put crews to the test…

Too bad you dont go official, those were without a doubt the highest lvl bouts ive seen… maybe ever. Im featuring the hell out of that if i can get some HD fo-sho!

Ogre.1750:

Omg i just saw the GD vs Scnd scraps and almost peed my pants, holy ghost, insane rounds. The game evolves, the meta sharpens, i could see it. Incredible technical details, insane lvl… long exhausting rounds that put crews to the test…

Too bad you dont go official, those were without a doubt the highest lvl bouts ive seen… maybe ever. Im featuring the hell out of that if i can get some HD fo-sho!

Check your YT inbox

Ogre.1750:

Omg i just saw the GD vs Scnd scraps and almost peed my pants, holy ghost, insane rounds. The game evolves, the meta sharpens, i could see it. Incredible technical details, insane lvl… long exhausting rounds that put crews to the test…

Too bad you dont go official, those were without a doubt the highest lvl bouts ive seen… maybe ever. Im featuring the hell out of that if i can get some HD fo-sho!

That’s a hell of a teaser Ogro

Yaro.3251:

Ogre.1750:

Omg i just saw the GD vs Scnd scraps and almost peed my pants, holy ghost, insane rounds. The game evolves, the meta sharpens, i could see it. Incredible technical details, insane lvl… long exhausting rounds that put crews to the test…

Too bad you dont go official, those were without a doubt the highest lvl bouts ive seen… maybe ever. Im featuring the hell out of that if i can get some HD fo-sho!

That’s a hell of a teaser Ogro

Lol even I get hyped for the next episode and I was in those fights :P

Icipher.4320:

Yaro.3251:

Ogre.1750:

Omg i just saw the GD vs Scnd scraps and almost peed my pants, holy ghost, insane rounds. The game evolves, the meta sharpens, i could see it. Incredible technical details, insane lvl… long exhausting rounds that put crews to the test…

Too bad you dont go official, those were without a doubt the highest lvl bouts ive seen… maybe ever. Im featuring the hell out of that if i can get some HD fo-sho!

That’s a hell of a teaser Ogro

Lol even I get hyped for the next episode and I was in those fights :P

So are we! :P

I would love to fight you all night long! Fights we had against you make guilds much much stronger. I’m pretty excited how you rock with your main leader. I look forward to the “official” GvG we might have in the future!

best regards

Looking forward to see the movie between GD and scnd!!
And ofc. episode 4!!!!!

GD vs Scnd ? It would be crazy ! Anxious for the battle.

Werizzit Ogro? Enough with dramatic pause!

Gonna add some last min news… everything going smoothly. Expect it in around 10 or 12 hours from this post.

RE-EDIT- Nah, just a very slow processing from youtube, and yes, the intro got a bit kittened up, but ill survive (its hard beign a perfectionist :_( There u go, sorry boys

Interesting stuff this time around. Best episode so far, really enjoyed the dual commentary, you guys are getting used to eachother. Allready looking forward to the next episode. Some interesting matches to be had this week!

good series, might i suggest that u link all episodes in the first post as well

will be easier to find for new ppl to follow.

Also, can you do a feature on Menelya , they hardly have even lost rounds, leave alone games. very interesting to see how they go against the bigger teams.

That’s kittenload of lost points and wasted slots.

Yeah, VotF destroyed us. Hard to be too angry or dissapointed about it because they were just a million miles ahead of us. Was educational and they’ll destroy better teams than us.
We messed up the opener on each round (with a lot of help from them) and the rest of the match was desperately trying to survive basically.
A lot of work to do on our part anyway, we’ve been coasting a bit for a long time but we were given as good an example as any on where and how to develop.

Two losses? I spit in the face of adversity! Time to get the slave whip out and get my guys practicing more eh >=D?

that second Scnd round was insane

Ogre, thank you so much for putting the effort to do this .. especially being on NA really appreciate the great footage from across the Atlantic .. plus especially the quirky but incisive commentary. Some of those matches .. wow intense as F.

It seems every weekend these new episodes do the rounds among the WvW-focused guilds (from orthordox ppt based to open field n gvg based n all those in between) .. I hope it will only grow and grow.

Thanks for the support and the nice feedback it really keeps me going. Wont lie to you, I kinda work my kitten off, was never a videogeek pro to begin with… these past weeks have been a learning storm. Im kinda discovering a vocation here, sort of. I very much enjoy doing these, and moreso seeing they are demanded and enjoyed.

Having Sabull is a pleasure, he is so easy to work with. But I know we can do it so much better. Just give us some time guys My new mike should arrive this week so that will be nice too, no more cookiebox mike with painful echos and peaks. Progress is slow and steady as you can see. Its all powered by you.

I’ve been watching some old GW1 GvGs out of curiosity recently. Decent.. but to me it looked a bit static and disperse. I dont see coordinated movement as intense and pronounced as in GW2. I see people fighting in 2 to 5 man clusters. Im talking ESL finals, not some random chums… these guys were playing the game as they should. Dunno, I must have played like 10 games with a similar competitive format (MMORPGs, mind you) and I coudlnt see what was so special. Typical stun/burst/kite meta. Lots of healing too. NPCs involved, objectives involved, not a true deathmatch since they respawn… really. It was ok for the time, and what sealed the deal must have been the added features to spectate, tourneys, and the awesome community this format must have brought together. But thats nostalgia ppl. Dont let that blind you and miss out the deep, complex and deadly meta of mass combat deathmatch in GW2. Give us half the stuff you guys had in 1 and this would be a powerhouse.

15v15 is a format the old angry veterans should have ease to dominate, yet I dont see them in any way shape or form represented in the GW2 GvG community. Just a fair warning, cluster fighting wont cut it in this one… better have a crew that does the throng ballet daily or you’ll be toast.

There are rare times where I’m having difficulty trying to find words to describe something, English being not my native. That second round between GD and Scnd was one.

It. Was. Beautiful.

But I wonder, what happened with GD around 9:00 of the video? They basically lost their edge there, took pause letting Scnd off their hammer of constant pressure. I wonder what the outcome of this battle would be without this pause.

I’m really interested to hear what was the reason for it because it looked like disruption in the pace of fight.

Oh, and Ogro, – keep it up! Really great stuff.

Good question, hehe. From what I remember, we focussed two downed there (one of them got up or so) and called a full regroup to heal up. Scnd pulled out and was far away, the veil they used afterwards totally caught us off guard I think and was a major breaking point. So yeah, it wasn’t the best call, and every little mistake was punished. That’s how it goes, you make mistakes and lose the momentum/advantage.

You can watch all 4 fights from our (my) point of view here: http://de.twitch.tv/yiillusion/c/2657175
The video seems a bit buggy, so pause at the beginning and let a few minutes preload. Don’t know, some twitch issue…

Ogre.1750:

I’ve been watching some old GW1 GvGs out of curiosity recently. Decent.. but to me it looked a bit static and disperse. I dont see coordinated movement as intense and pronounced as in GW2. I see people fighting in 2 to 5 man clusters. Im talking ESL finals, not some random chums… these guys were playing the game as they should. Dunno, I must have played like 10 games with a similar competitive format (MMORPGs, mind you) and I coudlnt see what was so special. Typical stun/burst/kite meta. Lots of healing too. NPCs involved, objectives involved, not a true deathmatch since they respawn… really. It was ok for the time, and what sealed the deal must have been the added features to spectate, tourneys, and the awesome community this format must have brought together. But thats nostalgia ppl. Dont let that blind you and miss out the deep, complex and deadly meta of mass combat deathmatch in GW2. Give us half the stuff you guys had in 1 and this would be a powerhouse.

15v15 is a format the old angry veterans should have ease to dominate, yet I dont see them in any way shape or form represented in the GW2 GvG community. Just a fair warning, cluster fighting wont cut it in this one… better have a crew that does the throng ballet daily or you’ll be toast.

Hmm, there are maybe 20 players from GW1 top scene who play GW2 periodically, if they are active at all. You can easily log on the most active GW1 pvp forum and the last post in GW2 discussion was in december 2012, that says a lot if the entire competitive community of the prequel all decided to not play GW2. So whatever “old angry veterans” you are looking for, never even played this game because it was too simplistic. Those players moved on to LoL/Dota/SC2 and made reputations for themselves that far exceeds anything a player could gain in a game like GW2. The few GW1 vets who play GW2 already made a name for themselves anyways, a lot of them made top spvp teams, they just never cared to venture into wvw because the gameplay isnt anything like what they want.

GW2 GvG is fun to play and is action packed ill give it that. But it misses much of the technical finesse that really makes top players the top players they are. What we see in GvG isnt really refined movement tbh, it takes discipline and practice but positioning in GW1 gvg was an actual skill which players may practice for 5 years and never develop, things like prekiting, giving away spike targets based on movements, target dancing by warriors to bait out protective enchantments, its an entire layer of complexity that will never ever develop in GW2 gvg.

GW2 gvg is fun, but I dont see why you feel the need to compare it to GW1 GvG. They are just unrelated, and the “old angry vets” never even touched GW2 because it had a lower skill cap from day 1.

Jackie.1829:

What we see in GvG isnt really refined movement tbh, it takes discipline and practice but positioning in GW1 gvg was an actual skill which players may practice for 5 years and never develop, things like prekiting, giving away spike targets based on movements, target dancing by warriors to bait out protective enchantments, its an entire layer of complexity that will never ever develop in GW2 gvg.

It is all there, and you should know better

Some things may be toned down simply because of larger team sizes, but it is all there. GvG may seem more claustrophobic and chaotic (another word for latter – dynamic ) but there’s a method to this madness.

Prekiting is general tactic, not something game-specific and it is used in GW2 GvGs heavily. It manifests itself primarily at the start of fight during pre-engage phase. False pushes/skills, evading focus areas, many-to-one and one-to-many harassment – all that works, among other things, as both prekiting and baiting offensive/defensive CDs.

It is all, together with idea of constant pressure and outpacing your opponent, essential parts of GW2 GvG.

You cannot protect spike target in a way you would do in GW1 so it is less relevant to GW2.

I won’t go into comparing the difference in skill level requirements since I didn’t play GW1 so what do I know. But do not pretend that these generic tactics are somehow limited to one particular game.

You are grasping at straws to make the comparisons here. Ogro said people stood in clusters and movement was static, people stood in clusters of midline/backline/frontline, and it looked like unrefined movement because people kite and kiting towards your allies baits an easy target swap.

Feinting a veil is hardly the same as prekiting, prekiting in GW1 was done over 20 mins of countless micro mind games between warrior and monk, deciding whether you ran backwards which meant you were out of heal range of your frontline or ran forwards baiting the warrior to your midline, or ran sideways baiting the warrior to your backline. Every step you took was a conscious choice in GW1 movement that had its series of repercussions. In GW2 GvG the commander decides everything, a single feint is not prekiting, it is simply a feint. Also avoiding AoE damage is not much of a mind game, you simply avoid the big red circles and find a way to leap into the enemy or strafe around into their backline. As a caster it is fairly simple to run circles around the outskirts of combat and regroup to your main force when singled out. As an individual in GvG you do not make so many concious choices and the few you do were not overly complex.

Anyways this is besides the point, if the community here truly wants to make GvG something competitive, then you would be better off trying to figure out what GvG lacks in terms of gameplay/tactics/complexity/rules.

Atm I just read a lot of “Anet should pay more attention to this than tpvp” “this is the real esports” “GW2 GvG is better than GW1 gvg” and sorry to say a lot of you are deluded. GW2 GvG in its current form has a long way to go in terms of player skill of those involved and the complexity of the actual game format, for anybody, Arenanet included to take it seriously. The further people feel entitled and draw these moot comparisons expecting Anet to magically see the light and give you what you want, the further you will steer away from your goal of making Gw2 GvG something worthwhile. The EU pax tourney had 5k viewers live, the top guilds in WvW barely max out at 200-300 viewers for a very hyped gvg. There is a lot of work to do and not just from Anet.

I agree with Jackie here. I haven’t played TOP GW1 PvP because it required so much practice and it was so complex. you truly needed a lot of time investment. One of the best PvP games ever.

In GW2 i’m enjoying spvp and GvG the most. sPvP MIGHT get somewhere in the future, but even that is still doubtful. If even I have reached top 150 (eu) in this game, something is amiss! ;o

GvG however, will never become more than a small community thing, and we shouldn’t feel bad about that. It’s just not as complex as some might think. I hope to have GvG’s every week because i really enjoy it but i’m not oblivious to the facts. It’s fun and something that WvW guilds really enjoy. Making a new map or format for these guilds will only interfere with the WvW playerbase, something that Anet probably doesn’t want.

And Ogre, the way you talk about GW1 GvG could be considered ignorant. As much as i love your videos, you shouldn’t talk like that about one of the most complex and interesting PvP formats in the MMO world.

Jackie, you have valid points and if it was your initial response to Ogro, I’d be less inclined to reply.

Still I would argue that the high pace and level of dynamics in GW2 combat is a beauty in itself. The raw excitement of fast-paced and highly dynamic combat is self-valuable. I came from competitive FPS background so I know what am I talking about. Complexity is not everything. All that matters is if there’s a demand.

I don’t know about the things you’ve “quoted”, None of them sound like what I’d sign. Personally, I’m not sure if monetizing GW2 GvG would be a good thing (ie “e-sports”).

As of view count, it is probably a consequence, not a prerequisite. If we had a platform for GvGs like sPvP custom arenas with spectators, I’d argue we’d have much more live viewers for top GvGs. All I know is that GvG Showdown gets around 1000 views initially and 3,5k is what view count is on oldest one. That’s your numbers for “underground fight club” kind of thing that is GW2 GvG atm.

Jackie.1829:

Atm I just read a lot of “Anet should pay more attention to this than tpvp” “this is the real esports” “GW2 GvG is better than GW1 gvg” and sorry to say a lot of you are deluded.

Wow! I was following you till this Jack, quite the groin shot… prolly never ever read anyone write that before you did tbh.

Also, I think you confuse popularity with skill, a mistake many young gamers make today. The key to the finnese of a games meta is the number of ppl involved in the competition. In those regards, for example, a MOBA like LoL or a format centric game like GW1 sure as hell beat the crap out of our fight club. More ppl, more skill, more competition. Pretty sure that if we had 100k players doing this every day, the skill ceilling would skyrocket.

On another note, most of the competitive gaming scene ignored this game based on two things: the monetization fiasco of early release, and the overall dominance of other game formats such as mobas or rts. Its as simple as that. People go were people (and money) are. it’s the cool party law.

IDarko.4709:

And Ogre, the way you talk about GW1 GvG could be considered ignorant. As much as i love your videos, you shouldn’t talk like that about one of the most complex and interesting PvP formats in the MMO world.

Friend, of course my statements are somewhat ignorant, they are based on two spectator videos and a quick read through the wiki! I tried to state that fact tho. Regardless, I think I make valid points. No need to get touchy, its not like were talking religion or politics here

Ogre.1750:

Jackie.1829:

Atm I just read a lot of “Anet should pay more attention to this than tpvp” “this is the real esports” “GW2 GvG is better than GW1 gvg” and sorry to say a lot of you are deluded.

Wow! I was following you till this Jack, quite the groin shot… prolly never ever read anyone write that before you did tbh.

Also, I think you confuse popularity with skill, a mistake many young gamers make today. The key to the finnese of a games meta is the number of ppl involved in the competition. In those regards, for example, a MOBA like LoL or a format centric game like GW1 sure as hell beat the crap out of our fight club. More ppl, more skill, more competition. Pretty sure that if we had 100k players doing this every day, the skill ceilling would skyrocket.

Perhaps I was harsh tbf but it does annoy me that everybody is so busy comparing to everything else rather than focusing on the actual game format at hand. I have read more comments than I can count about how tpvp is bad and boring and just about bunkering points and doesnt involve killing etc etc

As it stands the game mode of GvG in its current form still feels too simple. It just feels like an insult to keep pointing fingers at other game modes which are in their own right better developed. And the sooner it is understood why GW1 GvG flourished and is still being played 8 years later, the sooner people will begin to advance the entertainment of GW2 GvG as well. If you cannot appreciate what makes things good then you will never be able to make something good, its that simple. Despite being a GW1 addict I still compliment the GW2 GvG and see where the beauty lies, but it frustrates me when people bash things they do not really understand.

To keep this relevant to your GvG episode however, you may want to try discussing the actual meta, discuss what is was in the early days, how you feel it has advanced, and perhaps what styles of play you would like people to perform in the future. For example I really like the stealth play in Tpvp and I would personally like to see players spiking out lone targets in GvG with specs like S/D ele or Backstab thief, although on the flipside such playstyles are inferior to the mass AoE nuking due to the ability to rez so fast through banners or players, or ranged being able to collapse in their melee train damage forcing those targeting them to follow etc

If you want the gameformat to have complexity, it is an idea to get people thinking about where the complexity lies aside from “tight melee train, good water fields” because thats just mechanical ability, not really meta development.

Jackie.1829:

To keep this relevant to your GvG episode however, you may want to try discussing the actual meta, discuss what is was in the early days, how you feel it has advanced, and perhaps what styles of play you would like people to perform in the future. For example I really like the stealth play in Tpvp and I would personally like to see players spiking out lone targets in GvG with specs like S/D ele or Backstab thief, although on the flipside such playstyles are inferior to the mass AoE nuking due to the ability to rez so fast through banners or players, or ranged being able to collapse in their melee train damage forcing those targeting them to follow etc

If you want the gameformat to have complexity, it is an idea to get people thinking about where the complexity lies aside from “tight melee train, good water fields” because thats just mechanical ability, not really meta development.

Ditto, but I thought it was a good beggining for deeper discussions. Acknowledgment of the whole format past the name controversy.

In regards to the meta we see, I honestly think we’re just dealing with an embryo of possibilities. The meta is stale and mostly cookiecut, with almost all crews running variations on the RG classic. It works and everyone knows. But it can be countered. Also, it can be refined inmensely. The game changes with each patch but players are slow to adapt to these, most prefer to stick to bulletproof & traditional setups.

Skys the real limit in these, I can give some examples from the top of my hat… like fielding a dps warrior clone heavy setup that rampages in unison on command (5-10 guys opening with hammerstun>rampage 5 on 25 stacks of might could be hilarious. Burst squads countering periphery dps and cc already happen, usually a one man thief job, but in todays meta refining this could be a definitive edge.

Full berserker squad that vaporises on first pass? You guys did that back in the day, its incredibly effective. Just because a very select few managed to counter it on occasion it shouldnt have been dropped. It takes skill both ways, and is very flashy and interesting. Makes up for awesome fights too.

Again, embryo state & skys the limit. we’re in need of some man power tho, and an official turf. Till then we are a true footnote.

Ogre.1750:

Burst squads countering periphery dps and cc already happen, usually a one man thief job, but in todays meta refining this could be a definitive edge.

This works pretty well but im not sure how much of the effectiveness is due to people just not knowing how to react to it really.

ranged being able to collapse in their melee train

Is probably the best counter to it but is the kind of thing that’ll get an inexperienced player killed extremely quickly.
Regardless its far from an ideal position for them to be in and the thief / ele can collapse in on their own melee train and be more comfortable in it imo (depends on set up obviously).

The main problem with the lack of development or the slow development imo is.
GvG and zerg busting are just too different.
If you send a thief to harrass a pug zerg backline they’ll just get burned down instantly by the 30 longbow rangers hanging back there basically. It just doesn’t work.
Walls of reflection are pretty good against pug zergs, one because they’ll spam attacks into it and rangers, rifle warriors and grenade engi’s and the like are pretty common in them. They seem like a bit of a liability in gvg’s atm as the only thing they tend to reflect is abilities that’ll shadowstep you into the middle of an enemy aoe spike.

Too few matches take place too infrequently for it to develop at anything other than a snail’s pace but you still see a lot of different approaches to the basic setup and the odd completely different set up with some groups going really heavy on ranged for example.
It’ll get there, just not very fast and I dont see people experimenting with the basic formula too much unfortunately.

Caid.4932:

Too few matches take place too infrequently for it to develop at anything other than a snail’s pace but you still see a lot of different approaches to the basic setup and the odd completely different set up with some groups going really heavy on ranged for example.
It’ll get there, just not very fast and I dont see people experimenting with the basic formula too much unfortunately.

This. The opportunity to GvG is so infrequent and requires such massive organization (8v8 in GW1 was scrapped in favor of 5v5 due to organization, getting 20 core players on at the same time assuming they have normal lives and arent completely hardcore gamers, is a total nightmare, unless you have 30 quality players in your guild to pick from). On top of that, once you finally get a match, you dont feel inclined to try something new, you want to make sure you win, because you feel like you only have this 1 shot at proving yourself. I mean Ogro clearly says in his episodes that GvGs are an kitten contest (its in the video intro lol). So when you consider that every GvG is “the serious business” when does anybody get to practice and try things out.

In tpvp, regular tournament games are practice, if you lose em no biggie, people dont go kittening about them too much because it was just a daily tournament game. But every chance you get to GvG immediately feels like you are playing the real deal and you find yourself saying “this is it, serious business”. But if you go in with that attitude, you never try new things out of fear, and the meta will develop so incredibly slowly because people feel if they get owned or lose they will get ridiculed by the community.

Mind you, this is something you as a community chose as well. The amount of flak VoTF got after their first GvG with RG, which in all honesty I thought was something we were doing for fun based on my talks with Sacrx so I didnt bring a core or anything serious business, still resto/stamina sigils and regular zerg busting builds. What happened after was just a bunch of kittening and we realized we would never have the opportunity to try anything out in GvG cause the community wouldnt allow for it.
Obviously the second time around we came a lot more prepared and that showed very clearly, but it took ages for us to get another shot at it, while in any competitive game you can literally compete daily whereas we had to wait like 3-4 months to GvG again and still were forced to go into that inexperienced.

So, if you want a competitive format with an evolving meta, some things are going to have to change, especially some of the mentality people approach the game with.

Just my 2 cents anyways.

Jackie.1829:

Caid.4932:

Too few matches take place too infrequently for it to develop at anything other than a snail’s pace but you still see a lot of different approaches to the basic setup and the odd completely different set up with some groups going really heavy on ranged for example.
It’ll get there, just not very fast and I dont see people experimenting with the basic formula too much unfortunately.

This. The opportunity to GvG is so infrequent and requires such massive organization (8v8 in GW1 was scrapped in favor of 5v5 due to organization, getting 20 core players on at the same time assuming they have normal lives and arent completely hardcore gamers, is a total nightmare, unless you have 30 quality players in your guild to pick from). On top of that, once you finally get a match, you dont feel inclined to try something new, you want to make sure you win, because you feel like you only have this 1 shot at proving yourself. I mean Ogro clearly says in his episodes that GvGs are an kitten contest (its in the video intro lol). So when you consider that every GvG is “the serious business” when does anybody get to practice and try things out.

In tpvp, regular tournament games are practice, if you lose em no biggie, people dont go kittening about them too much because it was just a daily tournament game. But every chance you get to GvG immediately feels like you are playing the real deal and you find yourself saying “this is it, serious business”. But if you go in with that attitude, you never try new things out of fear, and the meta will develop so incredibly slowly because people feel if they get owned or lose they will get ridiculed by the community.

Just my 2 cents anyways, as a person who theorycrafts a ton of ideas but never got the opportunity to test them out because it cannot be risked.

Well yeah … there was time we just kittened around and brought whatever happened to be on on the day (think we had a couple of gvg’s running 4 mesmers in a 15v15) and didn’t take them very seriously.
Then we ran into a couple of groups who quite blatantly had put a lot of thought into it. Who said they could only 15v15 when they had 10 guys sitting on the hill and whatnot and we got stomped hard.
I dont know, i’ve grown to appreciate trying to get the proper set up but you do tend to stick to what you know and not experimenting too much because in a lot of situations you really dont have many opportunities to make mistakes, it doesn’t help really.
Most of the weirder strategies we’ve come up with came about when the standard one just wasn’t working or was something we basically stumbled on in the middle of a match (and most had little value outside that particular match).

The pride people take in gvg’s is a good thing overall as i just dont think people would bother coming up with strategies otherwise but the lack of opportunities to take part in them makes every one a bit too important atm.

I dont entirely get the mentality thing. We really didn’t expect to have a chance in hell of beating you really, we played in the hope of taking a round or two off you and I think most of us would have been really proud of that. Hearing it was going to be featured on GvG showdown was somewhat nice but kind of heaped on the pressure a bit to ‘give a good account of ourselves’.

It looks pretty horrific in the video’s and we were outplayed pretty drastically. But … I think we’ll learn more from that match than all of our wins put together really. It gave us a good kick in the kitten really, just seeing how much further we could take things.
I dont think most of the community will see it that way though.

Jackie.1829:

Mind you, this is something you as a community chose as well. The amount of flak VoTF got after their first GvG with RG,

Wasn’t paying attention to it and have no idea what the score or outcome was but this is unfortunate.
We’ve had a few rematches and they tend to go very, very differently each time. People put to much stock in one result (or results in general really).

I hope you guys say screw it and bring out the crazy strats. Theres some of us who’ll appreciate it the attempt and will think more highly of you despite the inevitable disasters (oh no you lost a match!!!) that doing that would bring … give the rest of us a chance too xD