Guild Wars 2

Hi,

I know a lot of you are in “GvG” and it is your right to invent new ways to entertain yourselves. However, is it possible that you do that kind of play elsewhere than on a Borderland or EBG? Like, say, the Obsidian Sanctum?

Tonight, again, I see several Guilds that appears and wait, and wait, and wait, and then go do anything but cap. Some also won’t bother help build a ram if a few supplies are missing and they pass by. The problem is, like tonight, the server is queued and at least half of it is not really helping the players who are there for the actual game.

Again, I’m all for innovations and having fun but the way this is going, your way of having fun is hurting others way of having fun and it doesn’t have to be this way. Even if the server isn’t queued and you aren’t preventing others from playing by doing nothing really helpful, you still artificially inflate our population. Maybe we would at least have an “outnumbered” buff, but no… we just have no “real” numbers and no buff.

All this to ask if you can take it on OS, please.

Thanks

Most GvG’s are held in the obsidian sanctum, if there were guilds fighting there, they either didn’t want to go to OS to fight (most likely scrims), or the OS was already taken and had a GvG going on in it. Regardless of why they chose to fight on the border, there is very little you can do about it. Some guild play purely for fights. They don’t have to GvG on a borderland to ignore a tower siege and not help out with building your ram. Some guilds would rather fight in the open field than under 100 arrow carts.

Now, if my memory is correct, each borderland has a 100 player limit per side. Now the average guild size of a guild that would GvG would be around 40-50, give or take, and the average raid numbers are usually 20-30. So, this leaves you with around 70 people to participate in your siege wars. Actually, lets give you the benefit of the doubt, and say this guild had it’s entire roster running on that map at the exact same time. That still gives you more than enough people to take a tower, or whatever else you wanted.

I’ve got no problems with people seeking fights, I love them too. However, I see a huge difference between fighting for objectives seeking enemies and fighting in your own little bubble contributing to nothing. The point is, WvW is not a place with no AC and no structures that is won with kills. Like it or not, there are points for capping.

Now, as for your giving me the benefice of the doubt based on your math above, I’d immediately point out that you can multiply the number of guilds that simultaneously show that disposition. It’s not always just one guild. Also, even if we still have server space it still artificially inflate numbers for 2 servers who could at least have an “outnumbered” buff if others were not there.

Still, I understand that it’s probably not going to change anything to ask nicely. It was worth a try.

Thanks for the answer though.

I like the WvW is beneath us leet pvp people that guy wove in. Seriously tho OS is pretty friggin huge isnt it? Can’t these leet guilds find a place to scrim there. Doing part of a jump puzzle isn’t being a fights only tho huh.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

I’ve got no problems with people seeking fights, I love them too. However, I see a huge difference between fighting for objectives seeking enemies and fighting in your own little bubble contributing to nothing. The point is, WvW is not a place with no AC and no structures that is won with kills. Like it or not, there are points for capping.

Now, as for your giving me the benefice of the doubt based on your math above, I’d immediately point out that you can multiply the number of guilds that simultaneously show that disposition. It’s not always just one guild. Also, even if we still have server space it still artificially inflate numbers for 2 servers who could at least have an “outnumbered” buff if others were not there.

Still, I understand that it’s probably not going to change anything to ask nicely. It was worth a try.

Thanks for the answer though.

So what you’re saying is you just want the outnumbered buff because these guilds are “artificially inflating” your numbers. You just want more karma, wxp and gold. How greedy!

Look, you can disagree with GvGing in a border all you want, but nothing is going to happen. The OS is the best spot to have a GvG, so like I said, if they weren’t there, there was probably another one being held there. Considering the people that build a bunch of useless siege everywhere to waste supply, are completely ignored by anet, this won’t get any attention either. Besides, once they were done with their scrims or GvG, they probably captured a couple of things or wiped a few blobs that were attacking one of your precious towers.

OS is the officially sanctioned place for GvG, but the posts above made me realise that if it’s already full of competing guilds, other guilds who want to GvG have nowhere to go. So yeah, if that’s the case, go ahead and GvG behind the windmill if you want.

@OP

Not sure where you play that queues are still a problem.

warriorjrd.8695:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

I’ve got no problems with people seeking fights, I love them too. However, I see a huge difference between fighting for objectives seeking enemies and fighting in your own little bubble contributing to nothing. The point is, WvW is not a place with no AC and no structures that is won with kills. Like it or not, there are points for capping.

Now, as for your giving me the benefice of the doubt based on your math above, I’d immediately point out that you can multiply the number of guilds that simultaneously show that disposition. It’s not always just one guild. Also, even if we still have server space it still artificially inflate numbers for 2 servers who could at least have an “outnumbered” buff if others were not there.

Still, I understand that it’s probably not going to change anything to ask nicely. It was worth a try.

Thanks for the answer though.

So what you’re saying is you just want the outnumbered buff because these guilds are “artificially inflating” your numbers. You just want more karma, wxp and gold. How greedy!

Look, you can disagree with GvGing in a border all you want, but nothing is going to happen. The OS is the best spot to have a GvG, so like I said, if they weren’t there, there was probably another one being held there. Considering the people that build a bunch of useless siege everywhere to waste supply, are completely ignored by anet, this won’t get any attention either. Besides, once they were done with their scrims or GvG, they probably captured a couple of things or wiped a few blobs that were attacking one of your precious towers.

It’s not about a bonus or no bonus. The point was there is an impact to play the game you play where you sometimes do and with the trend I see it’s not going to get any better soon. Telling me others do similarly reprehensible stuff to “excuse” you doing no better in a different form is nothing more than a logical fallacy. Two wrong don’t make a right.

What I understand is you are politely telling me: “screw you, we don’t care”. Now, if I was to organize a “let’s ruin others GvG activity by building AC and harassing you in zergs no matter where you go” how fun would it be to you? Not very. Me saying, “but you do no better” wouldn’t make me doing that "right. I was hoping to spark reason. I might have been a tad too idealistic.

My apology.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

warriorjrd.8695:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

I’ve got no problems with people seeking fights, I love them too. However, I see a huge difference between fighting for objectives seeking enemies and fighting in your own little bubble contributing to nothing. The point is, WvW is not a place with no AC and no structures that is won with kills. Like it or not, there are points for capping.

Now, as for your giving me the benefice of the doubt based on your math above, I’d immediately point out that you can multiply the number of guilds that simultaneously show that disposition. It’s not always just one guild. Also, even if we still have server space it still artificially inflate numbers for 2 servers who could at least have an “outnumbered” buff if others were not there.

Still, I understand that it’s probably not going to change anything to ask nicely. It was worth a try.

Thanks for the answer though.

So what you’re saying is you just want the outnumbered buff because these guilds are “artificially inflating” your numbers. You just want more karma, wxp and gold. How greedy!

Look, you can disagree with GvGing in a border all you want, but nothing is going to happen. The OS is the best spot to have a GvG, so like I said, if they weren’t there, there was probably another one being held there. Considering the people that build a bunch of useless siege everywhere to waste supply, are completely ignored by anet, this won’t get any attention either. Besides, once they were done with their scrims or GvG, they probably captured a couple of things or wiped a few blobs that were attacking one of your precious towers.

It’s not about a bonus or no bonus. The point was there is an impact to play the game you play where you sometimes do and with the trend I see it’s not going to get any better soon. Telling me others do similarly reprehensible stuff to “excuse” you doing no better in a different form is nothing more than a logical fallacy. Two wrong don’t make a right.

What I understand is you are politely telling me: “screw you, we don’t care”. Now, if I was to organize a “let’s ruin others GvG activity by building AC and harassing you in zergs no matter where you go” how fun would it be to you? Not very. Me saying, “but you do no better” wouldn’t make me doing that "right. I was hoping to spark reason. I might have been a tad too idealistic.

My apology.

I would love to see you try and interrupt a GvG between two guilds, as you would most likely just give them free loot. In fact, my guild looks for big zergs, so please, put your money where your mouth is, and do it. If you read what I wrote carefully, I gave the wasting supply on siege as an example that Anet will do nothing. You still seemed to have ignored the fact that I said OS was most likely taken. Believe me, OS is the best place to have a GvG. It’s flat, no obstacles, it was made for it. If they weren’t GvGing there, IT WAS TAKEN. Instead of looking at the OS to see if it was taken you most likely yelled at them in map chat for a bit, then came to the forums trying to draw up some sympathy.

No I was not essentially saying “screw you, we don’t care”, it was more along the lines “there is literally nothing you could ever do, so don’t waste your breath”. Please, tell me, what makes the way you like to play the game more important than the way others like to play the game? Last I checked, WvW composed of both fighting and PPT. Technically a GvG is just fighting, and it says nowhere that when you WvW, you have to PPT or get out. Besides, when you stomp a player, you get points so long as you have one of the buffs. So they were most likely contributing anyway!

If you want to really know how I feel about this, tell me what you would think if I made a post like this:

“Me and my guild can’t get into WvW maps to fight because there is a massive blob manning arrow carts and trebs in garrison. The fight has been going on for hours and they are just sitting there spamming the siege skills. They aren’t killing anything because it’s just a stalemate. They might as well leave so me and my guild could go in and actually kill some people.”

warriorjrd.8695:

“Me and my guild can’t get into WvW maps to fight because there is a massive blob manning arrow carts and trebs in garrison. The fight has been going on for hours and they are just sitting there spamming the siege skills. They aren’t killing anything because it’s just a stalemate. They might as well leave so me and my guild could go in and actually kill some people.”

I’d say you should start saving up to transfer to a less populated server

So wait, they’re ruining your gameplay, by not playing with you? They’re not hampering you, they just choose to exclude themselves from activities you care about.

gennyt.3428:

So wait, they’re ruining your gameplay, by not playing with you? They’re not hampering you, they just choose to exclude themselves from activities you care about.

No and no.

1) They aren’t ruining my game play, they might ruin the game play of like minded people like me for whom the game was designed as opposed to say, people who would like to make emote contest in SM just because…

2) They ARE hampering others on the server if they take space. Sorry, but that is reality. If they were excluding themselves they wouldn’t be on the server.

I’ve got the feeling all I say will be badly twisted to avoid the real issue.

If there is no queue, there is no problem.

/thread

I would love to see you try and interrupt a GvG between two guilds, as you would most likely just give them free loot.

Sight Of course, let’s fail to see the point and play the “I dare you” game. It was not a threat I was formulating but a reversal of role to try and make you see things my way.

No I was not essentially saying “screw you, we don’t care”, it was more along the lines “there is literally nothing you could ever do, so don’t waste your breath”. Please, tell me, what makes the way you like to play the game more important than the way others like to play the game? Last I checked, WvW composed of both fighting and PPT. Technically a GvG is just fighting, and it says nowhere that when you WvW, you have to PPT or get out. Besides, when you stomp a player, you get points so long as you have one of the buffs. So they were most likely contributing anyway!

If you want to really know how I feel about this, tell me what you would think if I made a post like this:

“Me and my guild can’t get into WvW maps to fight because there is a massive blob manning arrow carts and trebs in garrison. The fight has been going on for hours and they are just sitting there spamming the siege skills. They aren’t killing anything because it’s just a stalemate. They might as well leave so me and my guild could go in and actually kill some people.”

I’m sorry but that is a big load of utmost crap. I’ll tell you what makes the way I like to play the game more legitimate than yours: I try to score points and use the game mechanic and structures. Your argument sounds like someone who is telling me driving a car into my house is just as valid a way to drive as my way because driving a car include going from A to B. sadly my house was between A and B. I mean, why not make emote contest in SPvP so all matches will be boring as hell, or ruin others GvG by driving our cars into their houses? There is a problem and I was not ready to accept there was “nothing to do about it” before I even try talking about the issue. Now I see that reason was just a waste of time.

My bad.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

gennyt.3428:

So wait, they’re ruining your gameplay, by not playing with you? They’re not hampering you, they just choose to exclude themselves from activities you care about.

No and no.

1) They aren’t ruining my game play, they might ruin the game play of like minded people like me for whom the game was designed as opposed to say, people who would like to make emote contest in SM just because…

2) They ARE hampering others on the server if they take space. Sorry, but that is reality. If they were excluding themselves they wouldn’t be on the server.

I’ve got the feeling all I say will be badly twisted to avoid the real issue.

Oh don’t try and pull this “the way the game was designed” card. It’s old, and holds no weight in your argument. Even Anet tried interrupting a GvG, which didn’t end so well on their part. Like I said, WvW consists of both PPT and fights. Just because some people have clued in that PPT is 90% of the time pointless and boring, and you haven’t, doesn’t mean they aren’t play the game the way is was designed.

WvW was designed so that you could kill players. Guilds killing players abides by this design. You might as well complain about roamers and scouts too, as they aren’t helping you capture anything. Now quit crying about useless things and head back on into WvW, I’m sure those guilds are done now.

This happened to FA this past Saturday. One of our guilds was GvGing on our own BL. I think they were playing against SoS. Then Mag hit us hard and there were only about 10 of us to defend. We did a call-out to our EB and I think a few got in but they said our BL was queued. Moral of the story: GvG on the non-participating server’s BL. Server 1 vs server 2: play on server 3’s BL, it’s just courteous.

Recluce.3709:

This happened to FA this past Saturday. One of our guilds was GvGing on our own BL. I think they were playing against SoS. Then Mag hit us hard and there were only about 10 of us to defend. We did a call-out to our EB and I think a few got in but they said our BL was queued. Moral of the story: GvG on the non-participating server’s BL. Server 1 vs server 2: play on server 3’s BL, it’s just courteous.

So im going to stand up for the guild that was gvging last Saturday and tell you that they only had about 20 people on that map. Where were the other 60-80 people on the bl?

I honestly think that you guys are just overreacting to this. GvGing is only about 15-25 people max on a server. They don’t take up a full map queue. Where the other 60-90 people on the bl are not the GvG guilds fault, so stop blaming it on them.

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

Recluce.3709:

This happened to FA this past Saturday. One of our guilds was GvGing on our own BL. I think they were playing against SoS. Then Mag hit us hard and there were only about 10 of us to defend. We did a call-out to our EB and I think a few got in but they said our BL was queued. Moral of the story: GvG on the non-participating server’s BL. Server 1 vs server 2: play on server 3’s BL, it’s just courteous.

So im going to stand up for the guild that was gvging last Saturday and tell you that they only had about 20 people on that map. Where were the other 60-80 people on the bl?

Hey, you’re not allowed to make sense here! Haven’t you heard? A single GvG queues all maps for each server!!

warriorjrd.8695:

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

Recluce.3709:

This happened to FA this past Saturday. One of our guilds was GvGing on our own BL. I think they were playing against SoS. Then Mag hit us hard and there were only about 10 of us to defend. We did a call-out to our EB and I think a few got in but they said our BL was queued. Moral of the story: GvG on the non-participating server’s BL. Server 1 vs server 2: play on server 3’s BL, it’s just courteous.

So im going to stand up for the guild that was gvging last Saturday and tell you that they only had about 20 people on that map. Where were the other 60-80 people on the bl?

Hey, you’re not allowed to make sense here! Haven’t you heard? A single GvG queues all maps for each server!!

Oh of course. 80v80 is the new gvg trend you know. Definitely not 5v5,10v10,15v15 or 20v20.

warriorjrd.8695:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

gennyt.3428:

So wait, they’re ruining your gameplay, by not playing with you? They’re not hampering you, they just choose to exclude themselves from activities you care about.

No and no.

1) They aren’t ruining my game play, they might ruin the game play of like minded people like me for whom the game was designed as opposed to say, people who would like to make emote contest in SM just because…

2) They ARE hampering others on the server if they take space. Sorry, but that is reality. If they were excluding themselves they wouldn’t be on the server.

I’ve got the feeling all I say will be badly twisted to avoid the real issue.

Oh don’t try and pull this “the way the game was designed” card. It’s old, and holds no weight in your argument. Even Anet tried interrupting a GvG, which didn’t end so well on their part. Like I said, WvW consists of both PPT and fights. Just because some people have clued in that PPT is 90% of the time pointless and boring, and you haven’t, doesn’t mean they aren’t play the game the way is was designed.

WvW was designed so that you could kill players. Guilds killing players abides by this design. You might as well complain about roamers and scouts too, as they aren’t helping you capture anything. Now quit crying about useless things and head back on into WvW, I’m sure those guilds are done now.

I’m sorry but you saying my argument is not valid doesn’t make it so. You actually have to refute it which you haven’t at all. Beside, roaming is no problem at all since it contribute to the common goal. The actions of the roamers help your side in one way or another even if they would not cap a kitten thing (killing dolyak for ex.). Heck, “I” roam and I seek fights too. If there is an invalid argument here it’s yours because it is illogical to say that the game structure and mechanics are irrelevant. I’m not saying what I’ve said because I don’t like or respect GvG. If it was the case I’d be bashing on zergs because I don’t like all the mindless zerging going on even if I do participate in my share of them too. However, as bad as zergs are, they contribute to the WvW common goal, while GvG does not.

Now, seeing the kind of resistance I encounter for something I thought was courtesy 101, I’ll just drop my case and say good nite.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

warriorjrd.8695:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

gennyt.3428:

So wait, they’re ruining your gameplay, by not playing with you? They’re not hampering you, they just choose to exclude themselves from activities you care about.

No and no.

1) They aren’t ruining my game play, they might ruin the game play of like minded people like me for whom the game was designed as opposed to say, people who would like to make emote contest in SM just because…

2) They ARE hampering others on the server if they take space. Sorry, but that is reality. If they were excluding themselves they wouldn’t be on the server.

I’ve got the feeling all I say will be badly twisted to avoid the real issue.

Oh don’t try and pull this “the way the game was designed” card. It’s old, and holds no weight in your argument. Even Anet tried interrupting a GvG, which didn’t end so well on their part. Like I said, WvW consists of both PPT and fights. Just because some people have clued in that PPT is 90% of the time pointless and boring, and you haven’t, doesn’t mean they aren’t play the game the way is was designed.

WvW was designed so that you could kill players. Guilds killing players abides by this design. You might as well complain about roamers and scouts too, as they aren’t helping you capture anything. Now quit crying about useless things and head back on into WvW, I’m sure those guilds are done now.

I’m sorry but you saying my argument is not valid doesn’t make it so. You actually have to refute it which you haven’t at all. Beside, roaming is no problem at all since it contribute to the common goal. The actions of the roamers help your side in one way or another even if they would not cap a kitten thing (killing dolyak for ex.). Heck, “I” roam and I seek fights too. If there is an invalid argument here it’s yours because it is illogical to say that the game structure and mechanics are irrelevant. I’m not saying what I’ve said because I don’t like or respect GvG. If it was the case I’d be bashing on zergs because I don’t like all the mindless zerging going on even if I do participate in my share of them too. However, as bad as zergs are, they contribute to the WvW common goal, while GvG does not.

Now, seeing the kind of resistance I encounter for something I thought was courtesy 101, I’ll just drop my case and say good nite.

GvG results in people getting stomped, which you gets wuvwuv pointz. There I just provided you with indisputable proof that GvG helps you with the wuvwuvz. It’s also a super l33t tactic because it distracts and occupies the same amount of players from the opposing server!!!! This is the new meta m8, you gotta catch up bro.

warriorjrd.8695:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

warriorjrd.8695:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

gennyt.3428:

So wait, they’re ruining your gameplay, by not playing with you? They’re not hampering you, they just choose to exclude themselves from activities you care about.

No and no.

1) They aren’t ruining my game play, they might ruin the game play of like minded people like me for whom the game was designed as opposed to say, people who would like to make emote contest in SM just because…

2) They ARE hampering others on the server if they take space. Sorry, but that is reality. If they were excluding themselves they wouldn’t be on the server.

I’ve got the feeling all I say will be badly twisted to avoid the real issue.

Oh don’t try and pull this “the way the game was designed” card. It’s old, and holds no weight in your argument. Even Anet tried interrupting a GvG, which didn’t end so well on their part. Like I said, WvW consists of both PPT and fights. Just because some people have clued in that PPT is 90% of the time pointless and boring, and you haven’t, doesn’t mean they aren’t play the game the way is was designed.

WvW was designed so that you could kill players. Guilds killing players abides by this design. You might as well complain about roamers and scouts too, as they aren’t helping you capture anything. Now quit crying about useless things and head back on into WvW, I’m sure those guilds are done now.

I’m sorry but you saying my argument is not valid doesn’t make it so. You actually have to refute it which you haven’t at all. Beside, roaming is no problem at all since it contribute to the common goal. The actions of the roamers help your side in one way or another even if they would not cap a kitten thing (killing dolyak for ex.). Heck, “I” roam and I seek fights too. If there is an invalid argument here it’s yours because it is illogical to say that the game structure and mechanics are irrelevant. I’m not saying what I’ve said because I don’t like or respect GvG. If it was the case I’d be bashing on zergs because I don’t like all the mindless zerging going on even if I do participate in my share of them too. However, as bad as zergs are, they contribute to the WvW common goal, while GvG does not.

Now, seeing the kind of resistance I encounter for something I thought was courtesy 101, I’ll just drop my case and say good nite.

GvG results in people getting stomped, which you gets wuvwuv pointz. There I just provided you with indisputable proof that GvG helps you with the wuvwuvz. It’s also a super l33t tactic because it distracts and occupies the same amount of players from the opposing server!!!! This is the new meta m8, you gotta catch up bro.

Were the stomped people fighting for the cause of their server score? No. Your point is therefore irrelevant. Still, like I said, I drop the case, have fun.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

warriorjrd.8695:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

warriorjrd.8695:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

gennyt.3428:

So wait, they’re ruining your gameplay, by not playing with you? They’re not hampering you, they just choose to exclude themselves from activities you care about.

No and no.

1) They aren’t ruining my game play, they might ruin the game play of like minded people like me for whom the game was designed as opposed to say, people who would like to make emote contest in SM just because…

2) They ARE hampering others on the server if they take space. Sorry, but that is reality. If they were excluding themselves they wouldn’t be on the server.

I’ve got the feeling all I say will be badly twisted to avoid the real issue.

Oh don’t try and pull this “the way the game was designed” card. It’s old, and holds no weight in your argument. Even Anet tried interrupting a GvG, which didn’t end so well on their part. Like I said, WvW consists of both PPT and fights. Just because some people have clued in that PPT is 90% of the time pointless and boring, and you haven’t, doesn’t mean they aren’t play the game the way is was designed.

WvW was designed so that you could kill players. Guilds killing players abides by this design. You might as well complain about roamers and scouts too, as they aren’t helping you capture anything. Now quit crying about useless things and head back on into WvW, I’m sure those guilds are done now.

I’m sorry but you saying my argument is not valid doesn’t make it so. You actually have to refute it which you haven’t at all. Beside, roaming is no problem at all since it contribute to the common goal. The actions of the roamers help your side in one way or another even if they would not cap a kitten thing (killing dolyak for ex.). Heck, “I” roam and I seek fights too. If there is an invalid argument here it’s yours because it is illogical to say that the game structure and mechanics are irrelevant. I’m not saying what I’ve said because I don’t like or respect GvG. If it was the case I’d be bashing on zergs because I don’t like all the mindless zerging going on even if I do participate in my share of them too. However, as bad as zergs are, they contribute to the WvW common goal, while GvG does not.

Now, seeing the kind of resistance I encounter for something I thought was courtesy 101, I’ll just drop my case and say good nite.

GvG results in people getting stomped, which you gets wuvwuv pointz. There I just provided you with indisputable proof that GvG helps you with the wuvwuvz. It’s also a super l33t tactic because it distracts and occupies the same amount of players from the opposing server!!!! This is the new meta m8, you gotta catch up bro.

Were the stomped people fighting for the cause of their server score? No. Your point is therefore irrelevant. Still, like I said, I drop the case, have fun.

Why does it matter where points came from, they’re still points LOL.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

gennyt.3428:

So wait, they’re ruining your gameplay, by not playing with you? They’re not hampering you, they just choose to exclude themselves from activities you care about.

No and no.

1) They aren’t ruining my game play, they might ruin the game play of like minded people like me for whom the game was designed as opposed to say, people who would like to make emote contest in SM just because…

2) They ARE hampering others on the server if they take space. Sorry, but that is reality. If they were excluding themselves they wouldn’t be on the server.

I’ve got the feeling all I say will be badly twisted to avoid the real issue.

That’s utter nonsense. You and “like minded people” don’t get to decide who is taking up space. And I said they were excluding themselves from activities you find fun.

Nothing is being twisted so don’t back peddle now. The real issue here is you don’t like it because they’re not playing for PPT.

If this GvG your talking about was during or around server primetime its easy to get a queue when maphoppers are defending. You’ll see the queue and often alot of the people in zone will be roaming, pve’ing, map completion, just sitting at the zone waiting for their leet guild to rally, add to that a “fights” guild and a gvg with 20 active members particiipating others guild members watching, random spectators, orange swords pulling people down south.. Yeah it can mess things up pretty easy.

So SirBeau, what are your thoughts on:

Jumping Puzzles on WvW maps

Crafting Stations on WvW maps

Skillpoints and Vistas on WvW maps

NPC mobs like Wurm, Grub, and Oakheart on WvW maps

Mystic Forge on WvW maps

Vendors and TP on WvW maps

The use of things like tonics, boxes of fun etc.

?

After all, anyone interacting with any of these things is not helping the server. They are not contributing to PPT. Are you saying that it wasn’t intended by ANet for people to be able to do things on the map other than PPT?

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Hi,

I know a lot of you are in “GvG” and it is your right to invent new ways to entertain yourselves. However, is it possible that you do that kind of play elsewhere than on a Borderland or EBG? Like, say, the Obsidian Sanctum?

Tonight, again, I see several Guilds that appears and wait, and wait, and wait, and then go do anything but cap. Some also won’t bother help build a ram if a few supplies are missing and they pass by. The problem is, like tonight, the server is queued and at least half of it is not really helping the players who are there for the actual game.

Again, I’m all for innovations and having fun but the way this is going, your way of having fun is hurting others way of having fun and it doesn’t have to be this way. Even if the server isn’t queued and you aren’t preventing others from playing by doing nothing really helpful, you still artificially inflate our population. Maybe we would at least have an “outnumbered” buff, but no… we just have no “real” numbers and no buff.

All this to ask if you can take it on OS, please.

Thanks

So, wait a second, I guess I was under a misconception… Since the sanctum isn’t contributing to any score and it does contribute to queues (right?), then how is that not absolutely destroying WvW?

That alone would make the balance of power = load the sanctum, tip towards win.

I see a big problem if the sanctum is part of outnumbered or not.

During the golden days of GvG, pre-Sanctum and pre-bloodlust, when guilds had their own metas and all the good players were still playing GW2, guilds went to the third server’s BL since their spawns were close to the windmill and it didn’t frustrate homeland defense. It worked well for the most part.

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

I honestly think that you guys are just overreacting to this. GvGing is only about 15-25 people max on a server. They don’t take up a full map queue. Where the other 60-90 people on the bl are not the GvG guilds fault, so stop blaming it on them.

Apparently you haven’t seen the youtube videos of masses of 35-40 on each side – making all other play on any map almost impossible.

atheria.2837:

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

I honestly think that you guys are just overreacting to this. GvGing is only about 15-25 people max on a server. They don’t take up a full map queue. Where the other 60-90 people on the bl are not the GvG guilds fault, so stop blaming it on them.

Apparently you haven’t seen the youtube videos of masses of 35-40 on each side – making all other play on any map almost impossible.

That comment just shows how little you know about the GvG scene. 35-40 on each side? Are you for real? You might be able to show me one video, and that would probably be the only time it’s happened. It’s good to know that the people who are against GvG’s, don’t know a thing about it.

warriorjrd.8695:

atheria.2837:

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

I honestly think that you guys are just overreacting to this. GvGing is only about 15-25 people max on a server. They don’t take up a full map queue. Where the other 60-90 people on the bl are not the GvG guilds fault, so stop blaming it on them.

Apparently you haven’t seen the youtube videos of masses of 35-40 on each side – making all other play on any map almost impossible.

That comment just shows how little you know about the GvG scene. 35-40 on each side? Are you for real? You might be able to show me one video, and that would probably be the only time it’s happened. It’s good to know that the people who are against GvG’s, don’t know a thing about it.

Yeah we know how GvG’s work, their whole guilds rolls down there, 20 of them fight the other 20 watch and message their friends to come watch

displayname.8315:

warriorjrd.8695:

atheria.2837:

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

I honestly think that you guys are just overreacting to this. GvGing is only about 15-25 people max on a server. They don’t take up a full map queue. Where the other 60-90 people on the bl are not the GvG guilds fault, so stop blaming it on them.

Apparently you haven’t seen the youtube videos of masses of 35-40 on each side – making all other play on any map almost impossible.

That comment just shows how little you know about the GvG scene. 35-40 on each side? Are you for real? You might be able to show me one video, and that would probably be the only time it’s happened. It’s good to know that the people who are against GvG’s, don’t know a thing about it.

Yeah we know how GvG’s work, their whole guilds rolls down there, 20 of them fight the other 20 watch and message their friends to come watch

That’s still less than half of the player cap per side. I have yet to see a valid issue presented by anybody here.

warriorjrd.8695:

displayname.8315:

warriorjrd.8695:

atheria.2837:

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

I honestly think that you guys are just overreacting to this. GvGing is only about 15-25 people max on a server. They don’t take up a full map queue. Where the other 60-90 people on the bl are not the GvG guilds fault, so stop blaming it on them.

Apparently you haven’t seen the youtube videos of masses of 35-40 on each side – making all other play on any map almost impossible.

That comment just shows how little you know about the GvG scene. 35-40 on each side? Are you for real? You might be able to show me one video, and that would probably be the only time it’s happened. It’s good to know that the people who are against GvG’s, don’t know a thing about it.

Yeah we know how GvG’s work, their whole guilds rolls down there, 20 of them fight the other 20 watch and message their friends to come watch

That’s still less than half of the player cap per side. I have yet to see a valid issue presented by anybody here.

Honestly I just think they should just mind their own business. Short of breaking the rules I don’t see why anyone is getting huffy puffy about what ppl do for fun in WvWVW.

warriorjrd.8695:

displayname.8315:

warriorjrd.8695:

atheria.2837:

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

I honestly think that you guys are just overreacting to this. GvGing is only about 15-25 people max on a server. They don’t take up a full map queue. Where the other 60-90 people on the bl are not the GvG guilds fault, so stop blaming it on them.

Apparently you haven’t seen the youtube videos of masses of 35-40 on each side – making all other play on any map almost impossible.

That comment just shows how little you know about the GvG scene. 35-40 on each side? Are you for real? You might be able to show me one video, and that would probably be the only time it’s happened. It’s good to know that the people who are against GvG’s, don’t know a thing about it.

Yeah we know how GvG’s work, their whole guilds rolls down there, 20 of them fight the other 20 watch and message their friends to come watch

That’s still less than half of the player cap per side. I have yet to see a valid issue presented by anybody here.

Less than half.. yes nearly half a map queue for a GvG to take place, then you have to account for fans and friends of the guilds, and that altho a server does not run queues on a specific map they can quickly queue if defending properly.

I expect most sensible Guilds avoid using their home Borderlands just for fights, but also most sensible Guilds should be able to find a good balance that suits their own needs and for their Server.

displayname.8315:

warriorjrd.8695:

displayname.8315:

warriorjrd.8695:

atheria.2837:

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

I honestly think that you guys are just overreacting to this. GvGing is only about 15-25 people max on a server. They don’t take up a full map queue. Where the other 60-90 people on the bl are not the GvG guilds fault, so stop blaming it on them.

Apparently you haven’t seen the youtube videos of masses of 35-40 on each side – making all other play on any map almost impossible.

That comment just shows how little you know about the GvG scene. 35-40 on each side? Are you for real? You might be able to show me one video, and that would probably be the only time it’s happened. It’s good to know that the people who are against GvG’s, don’t know a thing about it.

Yeah we know how GvG’s work, their whole guilds rolls down there, 20 of them fight the other 20 watch and message their friends to come watch

That’s still less than half of the player cap per side. I have yet to see a valid issue presented by anybody here.

Less than half.. yes nearly half a map queue for a GvG to take place, then you have to account for fans and friends of the guilds, and that altho a server does not run queues on a specific map they can quickly queue if defending properly.

Yes, well lets just assume this and assume that. We should also assume when people don’t GvG they just sit at spawn and don’t do anything. It’s foolish to think that after their one hour GvG they do anything related to what you would consider proper. In fact, these guilds probably only enter WvW to do these GvG’s, once they are done, they just leave!

Trust me, I have watched more GvG’s than you have, and very rarely do they attract numbers even remotely close to what you are suggesting. In fact, the only time I have seen GvG’s attract similar numbers to what you think happens all the time, is when the top guilds face each other, and those only happen in OS. So not only does it essentially never happen, but when it does, you probably don’t even know about.

I really find it funny when people think GvG has such a large impact on the “proper” way WvW is supposed to be played. When these GvG guilds most likely play WvW more than they do, and due to their discipline, coordination, and experience, they would have a much easier time taking out the attacking blob than you would. Every single GvG guild I know, has taken objectives during their raids, and played this PPT game. So please, stop over exaggerating an already non-existent issue and just play the bloody game, however you find fun.

install gw1 and make a real GvG, i have a feeling that gvg’s on gw2 its only guild colliding with another, the one that spams most water fields wins.

warriorjrd.8695:

displayname.8315:

warriorjrd.8695:

displayname.8315:

warriorjrd.8695:

atheria.2837:

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

I honestly think that you guys are just overreacting to this. GvGing is only about 15-25 people max on a server. They don’t take up a full map queue. Where the other 60-90 people on the bl are not the GvG guilds fault, so stop blaming it on them.

Apparently you haven’t seen the youtube videos of masses of 35-40 on each side – making all other play on any map almost impossible.

That comment just shows how little you know about the GvG scene. 35-40 on each side? Are you for real? You might be able to show me one video, and that would probably be the only time it’s happened. It’s good to know that the people who are against GvG’s, don’t know a thing about it.

Yeah we know how GvG’s work, their whole guilds rolls down there, 20 of them fight the other 20 watch and message their friends to come watch

That’s still less than half of the player cap per side. I have yet to see a valid issue presented by anybody here.

Less than half.. yes nearly half a map queue for a GvG to take place, then you have to account for fans and friends of the guilds, and that altho a server does not run queues on a specific map they can quickly queue if defending properly.

Yes, well lets just assume this and assume that. We should also assume when people don’t GvG they just sit at spawn and don’t do anything. It’s foolish to think that after their one hour GvG they do anything related to what you would consider proper. In fact, these guilds probably only enter WvW to do these GvG’s, once they are done, they just leave!

Trust me, I have watched more GvG’s than you have, and very rarely do they attract numbers even remotely close to what you are suggesting. In fact, the only time I have seen GvG’s attract similar numbers to what you think happens all the time, is when the top guilds face each other, and those only happen in OS. So not only does it essentially never happen, but when it does, you probably don’t even know about.

I really find it funny when people think GvG has such a large impact on the “proper” way WvW is supposed to be played. When these GvG guilds most likely play WvW more than they do, and due to their discipline, coordination, and experience, they would have a much easier time taking out the attacking blob than you would. Every single GvG guild I know, has taken objectives during their raids, and played this PPT game. So please, stop over exaggerating an already non-existent issue and just play the bloody game, however you find fun.

IF you don’t think it messes things up you don’t play primetime on a high teir server.
Sure WvW is basically dead at times other than primetime unless your on one of those 4 servers with non-american populations. T1 – T2 primetime no way that won’t jam the queues.

displayname.8315:

warriorjrd.8695:

displayname.8315:

warriorjrd.8695:

displayname.8315:

warriorjrd.8695:

atheria.2837:

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

I honestly think that you guys are just overreacting to this. GvGing is only about 15-25 people max on a server. They don’t take up a full map queue. Where the other 60-90 people on the bl are not the GvG guilds fault, so stop blaming it on them.

Apparently you haven’t seen the youtube videos of masses of 35-40 on each side – making all other play on any map almost impossible.

That comment just shows how little you know about the GvG scene. 35-40 on each side? Are you for real? You might be able to show me one video, and that would probably be the only time it’s happened. It’s good to know that the people who are against GvG’s, don’t know a thing about it.

Yeah we know how GvG’s work, their whole guilds rolls down there, 20 of them fight the other 20 watch and message their friends to come watch

That’s still less than half of the player cap per side. I have yet to see a valid issue presented by anybody here.

Less than half.. yes nearly half a map queue for a GvG to take place, then you have to account for fans and friends of the guilds, and that altho a server does not run queues on a specific map they can quickly queue if defending properly.

Yes, well lets just assume this and assume that. We should also assume when people don’t GvG they just sit at spawn and don’t do anything. It’s foolish to think that after their one hour GvG they do anything related to what you would consider proper. In fact, these guilds probably only enter WvW to do these GvG’s, once they are done, they just leave!

Trust me, I have watched more GvG’s than you have, and very rarely do they attract numbers even remotely close to what you are suggesting. In fact, the only time I have seen GvG’s attract similar numbers to what you think happens all the time, is when the top guilds face each other, and those only happen in OS. So not only does it essentially never happen, but when it does, you probably don’t even know about.

I really find it funny when people think GvG has such a large impact on the “proper” way WvW is supposed to be played. When these GvG guilds most likely play WvW more than they do, and due to their discipline, coordination, and experience, they would have a much easier time taking out the attacking blob than you would. Every single GvG guild I know, has taken objectives during their raids, and played this PPT game. So please, stop over exaggerating an already non-existent issue and just play the bloody game, however you find fun.

IF you don’t think it messes things up you don’t play primetime on a high teir server.
Sure WvW is basically dead at times other than primetime unless your on one of those 4 servers with non-american populations. kitten primetime no way that won’t kill the queues.

I play on Seafarer’s Rest, and before that, Desolation. If you are unfamiliar with their standings, please, don’t hesitate to look them up. I have played in T1 for the majority of my WvW experience, and despite that, my previous statement still stands…

Ye guilds do this a lot in WvW. But then again, we can, and will continue to do so, only because its a true fair test of skill. Matchups these days, especially on NA, are rarely close. Thats because of the broken ppt system that has been broken fromthe start so people seek fights. Except the OS is sometimes full so we fightin the borderlands in our own little not disturbing anyone.

GcG is helping own server in PPT.

This is the truth and even you may not like it, guild from your server was preventing guild from other server attacking your structures.

atheria.2837:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Hi,

I know a lot of you are in “GvG” and it is your right to invent new ways to entertain yourselves. However, is it possible that you do that kind of play elsewhere than on a Borderland or EBG? Like, say, the Obsidian Sanctum?

Tonight, again, I see several Guilds that appears and wait, and wait, and wait, and then go do anything but cap. Some also won’t bother help build a ram if a few supplies are missing and they pass by. The problem is, like tonight, the server is queued and at least half of it is not really helping the players who are there for the actual game.

Again, I’m all for innovations and having fun but the way this is going, your way of having fun is hurting others way of having fun and it doesn’t have to be this way. Even if the server isn’t queued and you aren’t preventing others from playing by doing nothing really helpful, you still artificially inflate our population. Maybe we would at least have an “outnumbered” buff, but no… we just have no “real” numbers and no buff.

All this to ask if you can take it on OS, please.

Thanks

So, wait a second, I guess I was under a misconception… Since the sanctum isn’t contributing to any score and it does contribute to queues (right?), then how is that not absolutely destroying WvW?

That alone would make the balance of power = load the sanctum, tip towards win.

I see a big problem if the sanctum is part of outnumbered or not.

“This map was separated from Eternal Battlegrounds in The Secret of Southsun release in order to reduce the queue times.” http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Obsidian_Sanctum_

Yup, I guess it never was a problem and that is why it was separated…

What I understand with the load of knee jerk opposition to an otherwise very reasonable and understandable request is that you will not change a thing. Hence why I said I was dropping the case. That being said, saying something won’t make it fact just because you say so…

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

warriorjrd.8695:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

warriorjrd.8695:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

gennyt.3428:

So wait, they’re ruining your gameplay, by not playing with you? They’re not hampering you, they just choose to exclude themselves from activities you care about.

No and no.

1) They aren’t ruining my game play, they might ruin the game play of like minded people like me for whom the game was designed as opposed to say, people who would like to make emote contest in SM just because…

2) They ARE hampering others on the server if they take space. Sorry, but that is reality. If they were excluding themselves they wouldn’t be on the server.

I’ve got the feeling all I say will be badly twisted to avoid the real issue.

Oh don’t try and pull this “the way the game was designed” card. It’s old, and holds no weight in your argument. Even Anet tried interrupting a GvG, which didn’t end so well on their part. Like I said, WvW consists of both PPT and fights. Just because some people have clued in that PPT is 90% of the time pointless and boring, and you haven’t, doesn’t mean they aren’t play the game the way is was designed.

WvW was designed so that you could kill players. Guilds killing players abides by this design. You might as well complain about roamers and scouts too, as they aren’t helping you capture anything. Now quit crying about useless things and head back on into WvW, I’m sure those guilds are done now.

I’m sorry but you saying my argument is not valid doesn’t make it so. You actually have to refute it which you haven’t at all. Beside, roaming is no problem at all since it contribute to the common goal. The actions of the roamers help your side in one way or another even if they would not cap a kitten thing (killing dolyak for ex.). Heck, “I” roam and I seek fights too. If there is an invalid argument here it’s yours because it is illogical to say that the game structure and mechanics are irrelevant. I’m not saying what I’ve said because I don’t like or respect GvG. If it was the case I’d be bashing on zergs because I don’t like all the mindless zerging going on even if I do participate in my share of them too. However, as bad as zergs are, they contribute to the WvW common goal, while GvG does not.

Now, seeing the kind of resistance I encounter for something I thought was courtesy 101, I’ll just drop my case and say good nite.

GvG results in people getting stomped, which you gets wuvwuv pointz. There I just provided you with indisputable proof that GvG helps you with the wuvwuvz. It’s also a super l33t tactic because it distracts and occupies the same amount of players from the opposing server!!!! This is the new meta m8, you gotta catch up bro.

Were the stomped people fighting for the cause of their server score? No. Your point is therefore irrelevant. Still, like I said, I drop the case, have fun.

Why does it matter where points came from, they’re still points LOL.

Wait, wait, wait… so you are telling me that stomping people generate war score and not just loot and XP? Wow, I learned something new today… or maybe not….

Hule.8794:

GcG is helping own server in PPT.

This is the truth and even you may not like it, guild from your server was preventing guild from other server attacking your structures.

Oh, and what happens to the third server who now has half the opposition?

Anything to avoid the blatant issue… sight

This is really becoming an exercise in futility.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Hule.8794:

GcG is helping own server in PPT.

This is the truth and even you may not like it, guild from your server was preventing guild from other server attacking your structures.

Oh, and what happens to the third server who now has half the opposition?

Anything to avoid the blatant issue… sight

This is really becoming an exercise in futility.

And what happens when all the fight-capable guilds on your server leave because they’re constantly getting harrassed by pugs for taking 1 hour out of the entire week to do some 20v20?

Do you think your server score will increase or decrease when you have no guilds left who are capable of taking T3 keeps in the face of greater numbers? What happens when you have no guilds left who can drop in with 15 guys and save your waypointed keep from the zone-blob bashing on the inner gates?

Now who’s hurting the server eh?

And it has been explained to you repeatedly why OS is not always an option. But go ahead and keep ignoring it.

Ragnar.4257:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Hule.8794:

GcG is helping own server in PPT.

This is the truth and even you may not like it, guild from your server was preventing guild from other server attacking your structures.

Oh, and what happens to the third server who now has half the opposition?

Anything to avoid the blatant issue… sight

This is really becoming an exercise in futility.

And what happens when all the fight-capable guilds on your server leave because they’re constantly getting harrassed by pugs for taking 1 hour out of the entire week to do some 20v20?

Do you think your server score will increase or decrease when you have no guilds left who are capable of taking T3 keeps in the face of greater numbers?

I don’t know how you guys do it but no matter what is said you will inevitably straw man everything. I don’t care about our score per se. Winning or loosing is but a result to me. The real point is server space and contribution when you occupy that space.

If “leet” guilds feel like others are a burden to them they are free to go where the grass is greener. I won’t beg for them to stay. We might fall down the ladder, but if it mean playing with people who just want to play the game that was designed in good faith it won’t be a bad trade for me. You really seem to think winning is very important. It’s not. Doing your best till the end is important, not winning.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Ragnar.4257:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Hule.8794:

GcG is helping own server in PPT.

This is the truth and even you may not like it, guild from your server was preventing guild from other server attacking your structures.

Oh, and what happens to the third server who now has half the opposition?

Anything to avoid the blatant issue… sight

This is really becoming an exercise in futility.

And what happens when all the fight-capable guilds on your server leave because they’re constantly getting harrassed by pugs for taking 1 hour out of the entire week to do some 20v20?

Do you think your server score will increase or decrease when you have no guilds left who are capable of taking T3 keeps in the face of greater numbers?

I don’t know how you guys do it but no matter what is said you will inevitably straw man everything. I don’t care about our score per se. Winning or loosing is but a result to me. The real point is server space and contribution when you occupy that space.

If “leet” guilds feel like others are a burden to them they are free to go where the grass is greener. I won’t beg for them to stay. We might fall down the ladder, but if it mean playing with people who just want to play the game that was designed in good faith it won’t be a bad trade for me. You really seem to think winning is very important. It’s not. Doing your best till the end is important, not winning.

So you’re saying your complaint isn’t that GvG is hurting your server rating/PPT?

Okay, but now I don’t really understand what your actual complaint is.

You just care about whether people are “trying” ? Why does it matter to you how others are playing the game, and how much effort they are puting in? Does it impact on your ability to play the game?

So now there are 20-30 people on the map who aren’t playing the way you want to. And……. what? The only conceivable reason to be upset about this is that for a short time you may be outmanned when attacking/defending objectives. But you just said you don’t mind if you win or lose (re: objectives). So…. what’s the problem? You can still go and “do your best till the end”.

EU Riverside got special guild called ResQ was trolling in OS current gvgs, when gvgs where moving to BLs they where searching for gvg to trol them aswell.

And you here just beeiing Anet. This game mode is not supported by any devs but it’s one of the best things in all game that alot of players love to do.

WvW is 24/7 game and if in prime u got (20-30) less active people on map then usualy nothing dramatic will happen, but if 1 guy wish to troll GvG he can easily succed on that.

If u want ppt play when you enemies sleep or work.

And respect the game mode that devs fully ignoring because it’s potential would have made s/tpvp dead on a half if it got some support.

“After all i wonder whats the name of game again?. Shame ANET seemed to forget that.” Sacrx <3

Ragnar.4257:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Ragnar.4257:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Hule.8794:

GcG is helping own server in PPT.

This is the truth and even you may not like it, guild from your server was preventing guild from other server attacking your structures.

Oh, and what happens to the third server who now has half the opposition?

Anything to avoid the blatant issue… sight

This is really becoming an exercise in futility.

And what happens when all the fight-capable guilds on your server leave because they’re constantly getting harrassed by pugs for taking 1 hour out of the entire week to do some 20v20?

Do you think your server score will increase or decrease when you have no guilds left who are capable of taking T3 keeps in the face of greater numbers?

I don’t know how you guys do it but no matter what is said you will inevitably straw man everything. I don’t care about our score per se. Winning or loosing is but a result to me. The real point is server space and contribution when you occupy that space.

If “leet” guilds feel like others are a burden to them they are free to go where the grass is greener. I won’t beg for them to stay. We might fall down the ladder, but if it mean playing with people who just want to play the game that was designed in good faith it won’t be a bad trade for me. You really seem to think winning is very important. It’s not. Doing your best till the end is important, not winning.

So you’re saying your complaint isn’t that GvG is hurting your server rating/PPT?

Okay, but now I don’t really understand what your actual complaint is.

You just care about whether people are “trying” ? Why does it matter to you how others are playing the game, and how much effort they are puting in? Does it impact on your ability to play the game?

So now there are 20-30 people on the map who aren’t playing the way you want to. And……. what? The only conceivable reason to be upset about this is that for a short time you may be outmanned when attacking/defending objectives. But you just said you don’t mind if you win or lose (re: objectives). So…. what’s the problem?

I fear the matter is not that you do not understand my complaint but that you do not want to.

Look, I’ve already explained it all several times now so I suggest you read what has already been said.

I’m done for good.