Guild Wars 2

With the growing in population of late with Gw2, more and more trolling of GvGs are taking place. All it takes is for one dude to ruin a GvG match whether its in the obsidium sanctum or by the windmill. Last year and before that I’d say 99% of players respected gvgs and stayed on the side lines. New players are not familiar with this and there seems to be here-and-there players with no guild tags shooting arrows into the arena. This is solved by many things; one of which being instanced matches.

As to why this is important; contrary to belief, GvG is popular among servers and especially the WvW community. Any person who even casually delves into WvW probably knows who the guild [Agg] is yet doesn’t know the top 3 tpvp teams. The matchup of the #1 ranked gvg guild in NA against the #1 EU guild got more than 1000 viewers on a channel which typically got maybe 20. Though many people like to watch gvgs and know the scores of who won/lost, people are discouraged from entering the scene due to two things: the gvg scene is simply dying off and the only support dev-wise is an open arena in obsidium sanctum (which everyone is thankful for.)

However, times have changed and near HoT release towards after HoT release; doing gvgs will be almost impossible without trolling. If GvGs were instanced similar to an spvp or tpvp matchup, many more people would be interested. As for the rampant disappointment of Stronghold only being 5v5, the players really want a viable way to do large-scale matchups of 15v15 or 20v20. For the gvg scene to continue into HoT, having instanced matches would save from having 100% of the people surrounding a matchup to simply not run forward and start pressing skills.

There is also the issue of there not being enough spaces for guilds to gvg. On Tier 2 NA servers there is always at least two guilds on the same server taking turns doing their GvGs in obs. Two nights ago there were three guilds rotating on fort aspenwood, of which isn’t really helped by doing gvgs at separate times due to guilds only being on around NA prime time. This is also including the current state of gvg which many would agree is in a dying state — imagining a surplus of guilds trying to gvg in HoT would be ridiculous in the amount of waiting and taking turns. Instanced 15v15s and/or 20v20s would help grow not only the gvg scene but interest in Gw2 pvp as a whole.

Tbf, the T2 guilds kind of forced that by making a GvG tier, so there’ll always be guilds to fight but of course overstacking would happen. And with how NA seems to have borked up their glicko ratings so much they don’t receive much variety in their matchups, thus people really don’t want to leave that tier.

That being said, I would love an instanced area to GvG though, that’s actually an instance and just not using the one arena in a map everyone has access to on the 3 servers.

There were 10K viewers in the last WTS, “slightly” more than any GvG. People prefer to watch the most skilled players with good individual and team plays, not zerg versus zerg.

You always have the option to 10 v 10 as well…

I really cant see why they dont just allow custom arenas to have teams of 20v20 and have it set to no progression with teams over 10. Why would that be so hard. It may not be the same as wvw gvg’s but it would a lot more convenient.

Flyphish.6398:

There were 10K viewers in the last WTS, “slightly” more than any GvG. People prefer to watch the most skilled players with good individual and team plays, not zerg versus zerg.

Your comparing something promoted by Anet a company to something fans put up on youtube or w/e site. 1k views for a gvg is pretty darn good.

Flyphish.6398:

There were 10K viewers in the last WTS, “slightly” more than any GvG. People prefer to watch the most skilled players with good individual and team plays, not zerg versus zerg.

You always have the option to 10 v 10 as well…

It was 1000 viewers plus the 200ish in OS watching for an event that wasn’t advertised. Comparing it to something that is marketed vigorously to a games population doesn’t really make sense.

X T D.6458:

Flyphish.6398:

There were 10K viewers in the last WTS, “slightly” more than any GvG. People prefer to watch the most skilled players with good individual and team plays, not zerg versus zerg.

Your comparing something promoted by Anet a company to something fans put up on youtube or w/e site. 1k views for a gvg is pretty darn good.

It doesn’t change the fact that 15 v 15 or 20 v 20 is unwatchable and does not require a high level of mechanical skill.

Use the middle area under the center of eotm, hardly anyone goes there, plus you get to add knocking people off the edge as a hazard to gvg fights, positioning would be so much more meaningful especially with pulls knockbacks fears after the stabo changes coming. XD

You also get access to multiple tiers so not to worry about waiting on a certain matchups (which frankly is broken now) to fight certain guilds.

Or wait on Anet to do nothing and let gvg die.

Flyphish.6398:

X T D.6458:

Flyphish.6398:

There were 10K viewers in the last WTS, “slightly” more than any GvG. People prefer to watch the most skilled players with good individual and team plays, not zerg versus zerg.

Your comparing something promoted by Anet a company to something fans put up on youtube or w/e site. 1k views for a gvg is pretty darn good.

It doesn’t change the fact that 15 v 15 or 20 v 20 is unwatchable and does not require a high level of mechanical skill.

Take a 5v5. Now increase that 3-4x fold. 15v15 and 20v20 combat is more difficult regarding positioning and teamwork. The mechanical skill I’d imagine is probably the same in both areas as its the same game. Every gvg always has at least 40+ people watching in obsidium and as I mentioned before; a gvg attracted 1000+ viewers over twitch without any advertisement or help from Anet.

Xenesis.6389:

Use the middle area under the center of eotm, hardly anyone goes there, plus you get to add knocking people off the edge as a hazard to gvg fights, positioning would be so much more meaningful especially with pulls knockbacks fears after the stabo changes coming. XD

You also get access to multiple tiers so not to worry about waiting on a certain matchups (which frankly is broken now) to fight certain guilds.

Or wait on Anet to do nothing and let gvg die.

The GvG ‘community’ is actively trying to make it work. However a lesson learned from Starcraft 2 is that a community itself can’t carry a game alone. Anet needs to actually support GvG further than obsidium sanctum (which we’re thankful for) and into instances in preparation for the population influx regarding HoT. This could be as simple as just allowing 15v15 and/or 20v20 in already made 5v5 map settings.

Pretty sure they already said not enough resources to support a 4th game mode…… Good luck though

Ogre.3124:

Flyphish.6398:

X T D.6458:

Flyphish.6398:

There were 10K viewers in the last WTS, “slightly” more than any GvG. People prefer to watch the most skilled players with good individual and team plays, not zerg versus zerg.

Your comparing something promoted by Anet a company to something fans put up on youtube or w/e site. 1k views for a gvg is pretty darn good.

It doesn’t change the fact that 15 v 15 or 20 v 20 is unwatchable and does not require a high level of mechanical skill.

Imagine a 5v5. Now increase that 3-4x fold. 15v15 and 20v20 combat is more complex regarding positioning and teamwork.

Hahaha

Sorry

MrKrataus.6420:

Ogre.3124:

Flyphish.6398:

X T D.6458:

Flyphish.6398:

There were 10K viewers in the last WTS, “slightly” more than any GvG. People prefer to watch the most skilled players with good individual and team plays, not zerg versus zerg.

Your comparing something promoted by Anet a company to something fans put up on youtube or w/e site. 1k views for a gvg is pretty darn good.

It doesn’t change the fact that 15 v 15 or 20 v 20 is unwatchable and does not require a high level of mechanical skill.

Imagine a 5v5. Now increase that 3-4x fold. 15v15 and 20v20 combat is more complex regarding positioning and teamwork.

Hahaha

Sorry

… more people, more potential for teamwork. More damage / skills from the other team, takes better positioning.

Video w/ Caed an above average tpvp player doing gvg: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rx151_7QU0A

He dies the first minute. This is from him being assumingly inexperienced, but that’s the whole point. Not to say tpvp doesn’t take skill; even more-so in its own aspects. GvGs take more skill regarding a more straight forward manner of non-environmental positioning and communication due to there being a larger team.

This old topic again…..

Anet won’t do anything about it, they have decided 5v5 is where they put their money, and since the new dailies there are a lot more pve’rs doing 5v5 (where it’s faster and easier to complete the dailies) than wvw where the dailies can take quite a while.

If you’ve ever listened to the completely over the top commentators for the 5v5 you’ll realise who Anet are targetting…and it’s not your average wvw player.

Why is the GvG community so averse to doing 10 v 10 in custom arenas? It seems like an obvious compromise.

Because the GvG meta is built around a melee train, a periphery, and a focus/assist party. Guilds have 20-30 people and would have to sit so many others, and the fight wouldn’t even be recognizable as a GW2 type of GvG because you just couldn’t limit the numbers that low or you won’t have people for all the roles. It also diminishes position play as things like necros could never survive in such low numbers, they’d be focused to death.

L Step.8659:

Because the GvG meta is built around a melee train, a periphery, and a focus/assist party. Guilds have 20-30 people and would have to sit so many others, and the fight wouldn’t even be recognizable as a GW2 type of GvG because you just couldn’t limit the numbers that low or you won’t have people for all the roles. It also diminishes position play as things like necros could never survive in such low numbers, they’d be focused to death.

Obviously the meta would change and guilds would have to trim some fat or form more teams. Are those that are currently getting carried afraid of losing a spot?

Flyphish.6398:

L Step.8659:

Because the GvG meta is built around a melee train, a periphery, and a focus/assist party. Guilds have 20-30 people and would have to sit so many others, and the fight wouldn’t even be recognizable as a GW2 type of GvG because you just couldn’t limit the numbers that low or you won’t have people for all the roles. It also diminishes position play as things like necros could never survive in such low numbers, they’d be focused to death.

Obviously the meta would change and guilds would have to trim some fat or form more teams. Are those that are currently getting carried afraid of losing a spot?

I think this is the rare case where the competitive e spawts hardcore attitude should be pushed aside just for humanity. You can’t realistically ask people who have played with you for years to sit out when it might not even be a skill issue, but a composition/lack of spots/different personality meshes better with someone thing. You can have equally skilled and liked people.

And I just personally can’t imagine a 10v10 being better than a 20v20. Even people whine when you shave it down to 15v15. The player created one has a nice synergy where realistically every class ‘can’ have a role, although Engis and Rangers still aren’t seen much but guilds do run them. They have essentially 3 different groups working together in a big area, with lots of voice comms going on.

I get people think it’s skill less, that it’s too many, that some don’t like to watch it, but there are obviously others who have the exact opposite opinion that’s why they do them. It’s like asking PvE people to not run Zerker gear to make content harder, or PvP people not to use celestial classes because people don’t like the things they do, and think their idea makes the game mode better without those things.

I do think it’s unrealistic for GvGers to expect Anet to support them though, but I do like how they made their own community and still try to get support, even when Anet keeps avoiding them and PvPers keep trying to call them all bad. I am rank 80 in PvP, and I have been in a GvG guild for around 9 months. One isn’t a million times harder than the other, they’re just different. And some people have more fun with point fights and rotations, and some prefer bigger fights, but if everyone liked the same thing the world would be a boring place.

Flyphish.6398:

L Step.8659:

Because the GvG meta is built around a melee train, a periphery, and a focus/assist party. Guilds have 20-30 people and would have to sit so many others, and the fight wouldn’t even be recognizable as a GW2 type of GvG because you just couldn’t limit the numbers that low or you won’t have people for all the roles. It also diminishes position play as things like necros could never survive in such low numbers, they’d be focused to death.

Obviously the meta would change and guilds would have to trim some fat or form more teams. Are those that are currently getting carried afraid of losing a spot?

Using pvp rooms is more of a last resort if there is a limitation to a max of ten players. The more players in a gvg the better the matches are. So you won’t be seeing people doing GvGs in Heart of the Mists unless there was a 20v20 player cap. Even then some guilds might prefer obsidium unless there was a sort of a leaderboard or there are too many guilds doing rotations.

Anet saying that the spvp servers not being able to go above 10v10 due to technical limitations is most likely a lie. By technical limitation they really mean that they are too lazy to code the changes.

They’ve managed to make changes to things that they previously labelled as impossible (such as separating EU and NA reset times) so no reason why they couldn’t raise the caps for the spvp maps. If they aren’t doing it because of the cost well if they close some of the dead servers they can save some money there.

Flyphish.6398:

There were 10K viewers in the last WTS, “slightly” more than any GvG. People prefer to watch the most skilled players with good individual and team plays, not zerg versus zerg.

You always have the option to 10 v 10 as well…

Obvious troll is obvious.

Other then the same 100 posters cross posting complaints on this topic, do any of you have any actual facts to support the idea that there are a few thousand players interested in GvG?

By all means, I am not against the idea at all, but I have seen little, to no evidence that there is a large enough player base interested, to justify devoting the manpower to it.

coglin.1867:

Other then the same 100 posters cross posting complaints on this topic, do any of you have any actual facts to support the idea that there are a few thousand players interested in GvG?

By all means, I am not against the idea at all, but I have seen little, to no evidence that there is a large enough player base interested, to justify devoting the manpower to it.

nah GvG is really small now since its been completely ignored for 3 years. When GvG was in its prime i could say it was 3x-4x more popular then spvp for example (on wvw scale)

Covis.6037:

coglin.1867:

Other then the same 100 posters cross posting complaints on this topic, do any of you have any actual facts to support the idea that there are a few thousand players interested in GvG?

By all means, I am not against the idea at all, but I have seen little, to no evidence that there is a large enough player base interested, to justify devoting the manpower to it.

nah GvG is really small now since its been completely ignored for 3 years. When GvG was in its prime i could say it was 3x-4x more popular then spvp for example (on wvw scale)

So I guess my question then, is do you have any evidence of that? Personally, my experience suggest it never even remotely came close to that of sPvP. I also feel comments made in various dev post support that.

OS or may be EotM if you can find a mostly emptily map. There also wvw over all where you have group with larges number fighting other groups (what i guess you guys are calling gvg.)

coglin.1867:

Covis.6037:

coglin.1867:

Other then the same 100 posters cross posting complaints on this topic, do any of you have any actual facts to support the idea that there are a few thousand players interested in GvG?

By all means, I am not against the idea at all, but I have seen little, to no evidence that there is a large enough player base interested, to justify devoting the manpower to it.

nah GvG is really small now since its been completely ignored for 3 years. When GvG was in its prime i could say it was 3x-4x more popular then spvp for example (on wvw scale)

So I guess my question then, is do you have any evidence of that? Personally, my experience suggest it never even remotely came close to that of sPvP. I also feel comments made in various dev post support that.

Tens and tens of guilds? everyone with 15-40 active roster sizes. What spvp has? 2-3 teams per region and few pugs that keep rotating the same players over and over.

Covis.6037:

coglin.1867:

Covis.6037:

coglin.1867:

Other then the same 100 posters cross posting complaints on this topic, do any of you have any actual facts to support the idea that there are a few thousand players interested in GvG?

By all means, I am not against the idea at all, but I have seen little, to no evidence that there is a large enough player base interested, to justify devoting the manpower to it.

nah GvG is really small now since its been completely ignored for 3 years. When GvG was in its prime i could say it was 3x-4x more popular then spvp for example (on wvw scale)

So I guess my question then, is do you have any evidence of that? Personally, my experience suggest it never even remotely came close to that of sPvP. I also feel comments made in various dev post support that.

Tens and tens of guilds? everyone with 15-40 active roster sizes. What spvp has? 2-3 teams per region and few pugs that keep rotating the same players over and over.

All I know is that you can look through the PvP matches and see hundreds and hundreds of players occupying maps in off peak hours at times.

I have never seen more then 100 players in any area trying to GvG, even in peak hours. As to your statement about 2-3 teams in PvP per region, are you referring to so called pro teams? There are plenty of none advertised tournaments that occur all the time. My guild has 10 teams alone, that practice together, and some times we do intra-guild tournaments. So I am curious how you can stand by a claim that only 2-3 premade teams exist in a region.

coglin.1867:

Covis.6037:

coglin.1867:

Covis.6037:

coglin.1867:

Other then the same 100 posters cross posting complaints on this topic, do any of you have any actual facts to support the idea that there are a few thousand players interested in GvG?

By all means, I am not against the idea at all, but I have seen little, to no evidence that there is a large enough player base interested, to justify devoting the manpower to it.

nah GvG is really small now since its been completely ignored for 3 years. When GvG was in its prime i could say it was 3x-4x more popular then spvp for example (on wvw scale)

So I guess my question then, is do you have any evidence of that? Personally, my experience suggest it never even remotely came close to that of sPvP. I also feel comments made in various dev post support that.

Tens and tens of guilds? everyone with 15-40 active roster sizes. What spvp has? 2-3 teams per region and few pugs that keep rotating the same players over and over.

All I know is that you can look through the PvP matches and see hundreds and hundreds of players occupying maps in off peak hours at times.

I have never seen more then 100 players in any area trying to GvG, even in peak hours. As to your statement about 2-3 teams in PvP per region, are you referring to so called pro teams? There are plenty of none advertised tournaments that occur all the time. My guild has 10 teams alone, that practice together, and some times we do intra-guild tournaments. So I am curious how you can stand by a claim that only 2-3 premade teams exist in a region.

haha your funny… ofc im speaking of competitive side, i could call myself a team if i wanted to…

What does competitive have to do with it? Are you suggesting there are more professional GvG teams then PvP teams?

I do not understand your obsession with competitive teams. If there is not enough average players who can enjoy it, then there is no community. If there is no community, then there are no players supporting purchases in the gem store from that community.

You also push posters away from your cause, when you mock guild teams, and suggest anyone who is not competitive enough to be in the big tournaments doesn’t count.

The size of the community around it is what is relevant, not how many of them are on professional teams, highly competitive teams, or what not. I would suspect if they had any evidence at all of at the very least 5% – 10% of the community interested in GvG, they would implement it. Given how slow it would be at off peak hours, do to the difficulty of gathering more then 8v8, on regular bases, I don’t see any evidence that would suggest it is worth the time/money investment.

coglin.1867:

What does competitive have to do with it? Are you suggesting there are more professional GvG teams then PvP teams?

I do not understand your obsession with competitive teams. If there is not enough average players who can enjoy it, then there is no community. If there is no community, then there are no players supporting purchases in the gem store from that community.

You also push posters away from your cause, when you mock guild teams, and suggest anyone who is not competitive enough to be in the big tournaments doesn’t count.

there is no “casual gvg”. Its called WvW and its pretty kitten popular to me… i dont understand your obsession of making stupid questions :x

Covis.6037:

coglin.1867:

What does competitive have to do with it? Are you suggesting there are more professional GvG teams then PvP teams?

I do not understand your obsession with competitive teams. If there is not enough average players who can enjoy it, then there is no community. If there is no community, then there are no players supporting purchases in the gem store from that community.

You also push posters away from your cause, when you mock guild teams, and suggest anyone who is not competitive enough to be in the big tournaments doesn’t count.

there is no “casual gvg”. Its called WvW and its pretty kitten popular to me…

There is also no evidence of much of a professional GvG either. So why are you arguing for Anet to waste resources on it?

last I looked, WvW and GvG were too separate game modes. If you are suggestion they are the same, then why on earth are you arguing in this thread that there is no place to GvG?

dancingmonkey.4902:

Covis.6037:

coglin.1867:

What does competitive have to do with it? Are you suggesting there are more professional GvG teams then PvP teams?

I do not understand your obsession with competitive teams. If there is not enough average players who can enjoy it, then there is no community. If there is no community, then there are no players supporting purchases in the gem store from that community.

You also push posters away from your cause, when you mock guild teams, and suggest anyone who is not competitive enough to be in the big tournaments doesn’t count.

there is no “casual gvg”. Its called WvW and its pretty kitten popular to me…

There is also no evidence of much of a professional GvG either. So why are you arguing for Anet to waste resources on it?

last I looked, WvW and GvG were too separate game modes. If you are suggestion they are the same, then why on earth are you arguing in this thread that there is no place to GvG?

Tpvp is professional because Anet themselves provide tournaments for tpvp. The decision to focus mainly on tpvp is because of matches being more easy to queue for and there will only twitch streams on for 2-3 hours around prime time to advertise Gw2 and its pvp mode(s) regarding GvGs. This dev neglect is also stemmed from the fact that trolls who assume gvg is similar to blobbing over people in wvw troll social media and downvote anything gvg related, which made Anet believe there is disinterest in a gvg mode rather than just something which was ignored. Though that is, there are people currently playing the game or do not currently own the game who want a large scale organized pvp mode (other than wvw which has a bad reputation of attacking doors.)

The guild wars 1 players alone agree that gvg in this game is much different; however, they probably agree that not having supported gvg is untapped fun in the game. Not asking for anything complicated like a leaderboard or anything; just an instanced flat area to where we can duke out 20v20 or 15v15. Tpvp is fun and great due to strategy of certain point rotations and 2v2, 2v3, 3v3 battles, where the battles occur, and other small details which make the mode great. GvG is just simply the raw combat-only pvp that a lot of people want and will be interested in while they’re buying the game.

Ogre.3124:

With the growing in population of late with Gw2, more and more trolling of GvGs are taking place. All it takes is for one dude to ruin a GvG match whether its in the obsidium sanctum or by the windmill. Last year and before that I’d say 99% of players respected gvgs and stayed on the side lines. New players are not familiar with this and there seems to be here-and-there players with no guild tags shooting arrows into the arena. This is solved by many things; one of which being instanced matches.

As to why this is important; contrary to belief, GvG is popular among servers and especially the WvW community. Any person who even casually delves into WvW probably knows who the guild [Agg] is yet doesn’t know the top 3 tpvp teams. The matchup of the #1 ranked gvg guild in NA against the #1 EU guild got more than 1000 viewers on a channel which typically got maybe 20. Though many people like to watch gvgs and know the scores of who won/lost, people are discouraged from entering the scene due to two things: the gvg scene is simply dying off and the only support dev-wise is an open arena in obsidium sanctum (which everyone is thankful for.)

However, times have changed and near HoT release towards after HoT release; doing gvgs will be almost impossible without trolling. If GvGs were instanced similar to an spvp or tpvp matchup, many more people would be interested. As for the rampant disappointment of Stronghold only being 5v5, the players really want a viable way to do large-scale matchups of 15v15 or 20v20. For the gvg scene to continue into HoT, having instanced matches would save from having 100% of the people surrounding a matchup to simply not run forward and start pressing skills.

There is also the issue of there not being enough spaces for guilds to gvg. On Tier 2 NA servers there is always at least two guilds on the same server taking turns doing their GvGs in obs. Two nights ago there were three guilds rotating on fort aspenwood, of which isn’t really helped by doing gvgs at separate times due to guilds only being on around NA prime time. This is also including the current state of gvg which many would agree is in a dying state — imagining a surplus of guilds trying to gvg in HoT would be ridiculous in the amount of waiting and taking turns. Instanced 15v15s and/or 20v20s would help grow not only the gvg scene but interest in Gw2 pvp as a whole.

I said it in the past, I respect people’s tastes, I indulge in duels and I prefer fights myelf in WvW but there is no such thing as trolling a GvG that take place in a WvW map in the same way there is no duel trolls.

Even if I myself hate having a duel interrupted (yeah, I do them too), WvW is not the place for that. It’s not my teammate’s fault if he wanted to help me against a red guy. People who fight for PPT are legitimate, you (we) are not. You can do duel and GvG, but in many ways the trolls are those who GvG or duel from the perspective of the server population that came to play the legitimate game because when you GvG you don’t contribute to the game (spare me the 1 pt stomp BS contribution, you know what I mean).

That being said, I hope ANET can provide people with a place where they can do what they refer to as ‘GvG’.

This clearly looks like a stab in the heart to any guilds that like to gvg or have open field fights. I have no clue what this company is doing, they clearly dont listen to their community at all.

Ogre.3124:

Last year and before that I’d say 99% of players respected gvgs and stayed on the side lines.

Respect is earned not simply given, and it is a two way thing, when players from GvG guilds add to 1v1’s / small group fights, gank players leaving keeps/spawn 5v1, add when two reasonably balanced public zergs are having an open field fight, troll in mapchat, etc, it is no surprise that some players don’t give a toss about the “respect” GvG guilds think they are due.

Ogre.3124:

The matchup of the #1 ranked gvg guild in NA against the #1 EU guild got more than 1000 viewers on a channel which typically got maybe 20.

GW2 is not popular to watch fullstop, it is not a good game to watch, be it tPvP or “GvG”, the over-the-top particle effects even in a team fight in tPvP are an issue, adding 30 players and a melee ball, does nothing but make that problem worse.

A kid streaming Minecraft, D3 ,etc from his bedroom gets more than every GW2 stream combined, a thousand viewers is nothing, and yes it was for a player run thing not an official Anet tournament, guess what, long ago that is what the tPvP guys did, and their first player run tournies got 5k viewers.

You also have other problems with GvG that make it pretty dull, for example once a team gets on top it is rare they don’t then go on to win, it just snowballs too easily, sometimes to the point ‘GG’ is called and the round is over virtually as soon as it starts.

Ogre.3124:

If GvGs were instanced similar to an spvp or tpvp matchup, many more people would be interested.

If Anet were to take “GvG” seriously, they would have to balance for it, because in case you’ve missed it the balance for “GvG” is a total joke, you have two classes that have been pretty much non-existent and two more that are woefully under-represented and they are never going to devote resources to a competitve format that certain classes basically cannot play, but the chances of that happening are zero as you can’t balance for small 2v2 – 3v3 encounters you get in tPvP and for 20 vs 20 where game mechanics basically break.

Ogre.3124:

Take a 5v5. Now increase that 3-4x fold. 15v15 and 20v20 combat is more difficult regarding positioning and teamwork.

LoL more difficult, let’s take ‘positioning’ as you mention that, positioning is a joke in “GvG”, melee don’t have to make any real decisions on positioning at all, the driver does it for them, it is brainless, which is why you have the QQ over driver sniping, you kill the brain and well…

coglin.1867:

Covis.6037:

coglin.1867:

Covis.6037:

coglin.1867:

Other then the same 100 posters cross posting complaints on this topic, do any of you have any actual facts to support the idea that there are a few thousand players interested in GvG?

By all means, I am not against the idea at all, but I have seen little, to no evidence that there is a large enough player base interested, to justify devoting the manpower to it.

nah GvG is really small now since its been completely ignored for 3 years. When GvG was in its prime i could say it was 3x-4x more popular then spvp for example (on wvw scale)

So I guess my question then, is do you have any evidence of that? Personally, my experience suggest it never even remotely came close to that of sPvP. I also feel comments made in various dev post support that.

Tens and tens of guilds? everyone with 15-40 active roster sizes. What spvp has? 2-3 teams per region and few pugs that keep rotating the same players over and over.

All I know is that you can look through the PvP matches and see hundreds and hundreds of players occupying maps in off peak hours at times.

I have never seen more then 100 players in any area trying to GvG, even in peak hours. As to your statement about 2-3 teams in PvP per region, are you referring to so called pro teams? There are plenty of none advertised tournaments that occur all the time. My guild has 10 teams alone, that practice together, and some times we do intra-guild tournaments. So I am curious how you can stand by a claim that only 2-3 premade teams exist in a region.

This is a terrible analogy. The casual play for GvG is WvW groups… and Anet has already stated in numerous past posts, that WvW was far more populated then spvp across the servers. Also when you go into the heart of the mists it’s not just your server there. As he said there are guilds with roster sizes varying from 30-500 across every tier that GvG. Just including the top 10 gvg guilds that average 20 people that’s 200 people and that’s being generous. Including all the guilds that do gvg across all the tiers is definitely 1000’s of people and that’s not including EU (which might have even more).

Honestly I wouldn’t mind 10v10 deathmatch style supported in spvp on a deathmatch map. I would prefer 15 to 20, but honestly… at this point… 10v10 on a good deathmatch map with a supported game mode would at least help.

A big problem is that people seem to think that 15v15 or 20v20 is not skilled play. This is just wrong. You don’t stroll into a tournament with 5 random players in 5 random comps right? Neither do GvG guilds, all the players in those teams are there based on skill, class comp and teamwork. It’s not as simple as rolling your face across the keyboard. I definitely can understand the argument that 5v5 vs 15v15 is far more mechanical as each person has a greater affect on the outcome then a 15v15, but the latter is not just “Zerg v zerg”

I’d say wait till HoT, guild halls may bring GvG arenas as i thought they did in GW1

The PvP population is much, much larger than GvG. Using WvW population as an indicator is disingenuous. The vast majority of WvW players do not participate in organized GvG.

For instance, the PvP “top” 1000 starts at the 96th percentile (with separate boards for EU and NA to boot), even after a recent leaderboard reset. Granted, not all entrants on the leaderboard represent individual users…but you get the point. The GvG “scene” has 500 tops.

zinkz.7045:

Ogre.3124:

If GvGs were instanced similar to an spvp or tpvp matchup, many more people would be interested.

If Anet were to take “GvG” seriously, they would have to balance for it, because in case you’ve missed it the balance for “GvG” is a total joke, you have two classes that have been pretty much non-existent and two more that are woefully under-represented and they are never going to devote resources to a competitve format that certain classes basically cannot play, but the chances of that happening are zero as you can’t balance for small 2v2 – 3v3 encounters you get in tPvP and for 20 vs 20 where game mechanics basically break.

Let’s not forget that build variants are nothing but mere tweaks to traits & utility skills….

They’re basically playing the same classes (GWEN) and builds all the time, only thing that changes is the driver…

As much as u want to respect this game mode “GvGers” don’t helpt at all.

BTW I had to quote this….

Ogre.3124:

the gvg scene is simply dying off and the only support dev-wise is an open arena in obsidium sanctum (which everyone is thankful for.)

The organized death-matches that this community schedules are not WvW, so I’m not really sure why you think that it falls upon the responsibility of the WvW developers to build content for it. What you should really be asking for is for ANet to provide more tools for your community-run events in a much broader sense.

GvG is for a very small minority. Waste of development resources.

I need the ability to buy an instanced OS for my GH or something like that. Or make the OS have overflow capability because I can tell you it will be so packed if all the guilds that actually scrim in bl’s went to the OS. I mean on primetime across 3 servers on T2, there are like 15 guilds at least that gvg across bl’s. AT LEAST. Half of every map is full with a gvg guild.

Flyphish.6398:

The PvP population is much, much larger than GvG. Using WvW population as an indicator is disingenuous. The vast majority of WvW players do not participate in organized GvG.

For instance, the PvP “top” 1000 starts at the 96th percentile (with separate boards for EU and NA to boot), even after a recent leaderboard reset. Granted, not all entrants on the leaderboard represent individual users…but you get the point. The GvG “scene” has 500 tops.

Who cares about PvP though. This is WvW and as it stansd WvW is much bigger than PvP. GvG guilds are plenty common but they are spread out through many servers and don’t have access to fight each other, hence the community tends to feel small.

The scene used to be a lot bigger but now id probably say it has like 3000? Thats an educated guess. Looking at just t2 and t1 in NA, there are at least 30, at tops 40. Some do gvg’s regularily, some don’t. New guilds pop up and old ones leave. But if thats at least 30 guilds in 2 tiers in 1 region, then thats close to 1000 people right there.

Theres really a lot of misconception about GvG from the people commenting here. I’ll answer a few questions.

No GvG is not unbalanced, it works actually quite well for a game designed around 5v5. Right now in the meta, every class but engi is utilized. Ranger has became very popular since its practically broken with its 4k autoattacks on glassy casters. I have seen engi used sometimes, but not too much. It has a very useful and reliable pull that can throw people off. In general its not really used that much because it doesnt offer anything that other classes can’t do better(at lesat for now.)

rainisword.7860:

Who cares about PvP though. This is WvW and as it stansd WvW is much bigger than PvP. GvG guilds are plenty common but they are spread out through many servers and don’t have access to fight each other, hence the community tends to feel small.

WvW might be bigger than the PvP community, but the PvP community is definitely much larger than the “GvG” community.

Malediktus.3740:

GvG is for a very small minority. Waste of development resources.

No, waste of development resource is taking a year to redeveloping the level system that sucks even worse than before.

Make one pvp zone with a flat open area arena with mega server access and that is all you would need to make wvw guilds happy. It’s not hard, it doesn’t have to be fancy, it doesn’t need any gimmicks, it doesn’t need to be connected to wvw or eotm or spvp, it also doesn’t need 2 weeks of blogs explaining it. It’s simple, give the players a simple place to gvg and let them do the rest, let them keep their own scores and records and tournaments.

Ogre.3124:

As to why this is important; contrary to belief, GvG is popular among servers and especially the WvW community. Any person who even casually delves into WvW probably knows who the guild [Agg] is

I guess i’m the exception then. I spend 99% of my gw2 time in wvw and i don’t have a clue who they are.

Malediktus.3740:

GvG is for a very small minority. Waste of development resources.

This.

Not to mention they put in obsidian sanctum area for them… Theres also plenty of other open places for GvG. Nothing will ever be good enough for them though.

x Charlie.4820:

Malediktus.3740:

GvG is for a very small minority. Waste of development resources.

This.

Not to mention they put in obsidian sanctum area for them… Theres also plenty of other open places for GvG. Nothing will ever be good enough for them though.

An instanced OS would likely silence them a long time. Hating on them because people don’t understand/like/appreciate it probably won’t.

Flyphish.6398:

The PvP population is much, much larger than GvG. Using WvW population as an indicator is disingenuous. The vast majority of WvW players do not participate in organized GvG.

For instance, the PvP “top” 1000 starts at the 96th percentile (with separate boards for EU and NA to boot), even after a recent leaderboard reset. Granted, not all entrants on the leaderboard represent individual users…but you get the point. The GvG “scene” has 500 tops.

Let’s define a GvG guild as any guild which participates in what is commonly understood as GW2-GvG at least once a week.

I would estimate that there are, on average, 5 such guilds per server. In T1-2 there are more, 10+, while down in Bronze tiers there may only be 1 or 2, so 5 is a fair average.

Some of these guilds will have rosters of 50+, while others will only have 15, so lets say an average roster of 25.

There are 51 servers across NA and EU.

5 * 25 * 51 = 6375.

This is just the “active” rosters of GvG guilds. It does not consider the many players who used to participate but who got frustrated with the lack of support, or whose guilds disbanded and are currently homeless, or who don’t have time to participate themselves but who still like to follow the scene.

“500” is an absurdly low estimate of the gvg-community. Even 5000 would be a very low estimate. 10,000 is more likely.

And this is without any official support, promotion, development, hints popping up in the tutorial etc. I would say the GvG community could absolutely be larger than PvP if supported properly.

Guild Halls are likely your last hope. Instanced map, invite players from the other guild into your GH, have an option to set members from different guild as hostile, go and fight.

If they do this they can address concerns about GvGs and Dueling with very minimal effort on their part, hopefully we see something similar.

Ragnar.4257:

Flyphish.6398:

The PvP population is much, much larger than GvG. Using WvW population as an indicator is disingenuous. The vast majority of WvW players do not participate in organized GvG.

For instance, the PvP “top” 1000 starts at the 96th percentile (with separate boards for EU and NA to boot), even after a recent leaderboard reset. Granted, not all entrants on the leaderboard represent individual users…but you get the point. The GvG “scene” has 500 tops.

Let’s define a GvG guild as any guild which participates in what is commonly understood as GW2-GvG at least once a week.

I would estimate that there are, on average, 5 such guilds per server. In T1-2 there are more, 10+, while down in Bronze tiers there may only be 1 or 2, so 5 is a fair average.

Some of these guilds will have rosters of 50+, while others will only have 15, so lets say an average roster of 25.

There are 51 servers across NA and EU.

5 * 25 * 51 = 6375.

This is just the “active” rosters of GvG guilds. It does not consider the many players who used to participate but who got frustrated with the lack of support, or whose guilds disbanded and are currently homeless, or who don’t have time to participate themselves but who still like to follow the scene.

“500” is an absurdly low estimate of the gvg-community. Even 5000 would be a very low estimate. 10,000 is more likely.

And this is without any official support, promotion, development, hints popping up in the tutorial etc. I would say the GvG community could absolutely be larger than PvP if supported properly.

You are vastly overestimating the number of participants in GvG, just like he is vastly underestimating it.

If you want to go with real numbers: http://www.gw2wvw.net/gvg
You are looking at around 2,297 people give or take 20% for inactives and subs.