Guild Wars 2

@besetment

Here is my question to you who seems to think he can be “napolian” via gw2 wvw….. Why when my guild shows up (or other 5 mans like us) and chunk off 10-15 of your epic 50 man, do they ALWAYS lose that fight? If our 5 man separates 10-15 of your lemmings/deciples from the “Zerg” why do they lose when forced to open field fight?

Besetment.9187:

Playing with large numbers is just different and requires a different set of skills. The biggest difference is communicative because its difficult at the best of times to get 30 individuals to behave as a single entity and you need to be conscious of what your people are doing all the time. Theres an awful lot of them.

Failure in large teams is rarely a result of an individual doing something wrong (unless they die and give away a free rally). The problems tend to be more systemic in nature and are more difficult to identify and to correct.

Individual ability is not as important because team synergy and skill redundancy can compensate for it by eliminating all individual weakness. There is a greater likelihood that you can get things like cleanse conditions, stability, projectile reflection etc on voice command so that no individual player will die as a result of same being on a long cooldown. The downside is that if individuals do not train themselves to do these things for the greater benefit of the team, its easy to lose control and you have a systemic problem to deal with.

I think you need a certain level of charisma and cachet to do this properly and it becomes an entirely different set of skills to develop. People who play in large groups need to have less idiosyncratic behaviour and expression because its confusing to people who don’t know what you mean.

There is no room for vague language/instruction and concision is vastly more important in large teams. Voice comm air time becomes a commodity that must be rationed so you communicate the most pertinent information using the least number words, otherwise your channel goes to pieces. You are sharing comms with over 30 players. It requires a more disciplined approach to speaking and deferring to others who may have important information to relay.

Large structured teams that are maintained over long periods of time will also disintegrate in a different way. All structured teams collapse over time as key players log out to do other things. In larger teams it is possible for an effective fighting force to still function when all of its originating members have left, but as alts and new players replace the roles of those logging out, it becomes necessary to train as you play, pretty much constantly, with a mind to instilling certain sets of desirable behaviours.

Large teams are also expected to do more than fight but also to control territory (which gives your team more favourable ground to fight on). Controlling territory requires a whole meta strategic way of thinking that is really insane if you are not used to it. For instance, you will have to train yourself to look at the map more than whats going on your screen, to read map movement of your opponents and corroborating it with scouting information so your team never gets blindsided. Players as well as commanders need to learn this because they are necessary for corroborating information. All large scale fights end in landslides and thats just the way the mechanics of it stack up. You get blindsided once, your whole team wipes in seconds so its not very forgiving if you make mistakes.

If you haven’t tried it before Oozo, you should try running a 50 man. At times it can melt your brain at the number of things you need to keep track of. It involves alot of autorunning and flicking between map, screen, your own team (to spot bad behaviour from becoming bad habit) at the same time that people are screaming incomprehensible words about a zerg incoming from…somewhere. You need a alot of voice channel discipline and a chat relay or the system breaks down very easily.

Rather than your team collapsing entirely when a few key players log off, you can actually still function but sometimes must transition into a different role or play a different game, often with different people. Its not always easy.

It is easy to ball up 30 dudes on a commander icon, say follow the leader and run with the blue chip to your death. But the number of players is really irrelevant in such situations. Its easy to do anything without a requirement that you do it well. If you screw up in a small man, few people are around to see it and criticize it. You arent expected to control territory and gaining or losing territory does not matter. You make one big mistake in a large team and you get crucified for it by your own allies.

Split play in tier 4 and 5 was more viable than when my server got into tier 3. It is an aspect of the large scale game I really miss.

This is a very accurate assesement. With 12 years Active duty army, multiple deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan, I do very much appreciate the level of organization and coordination that large scale WvW requires.

I don’t know the hate with the word “zerg”. In a borderlands on a full night, three servers will always almost have the equal number of players. So even its zergy, it is still a fair and balanced fight. A commander handling a mega zerg will require more of his skill of macro management, as well as micro management. He could divide his megazerg into multiple micro zergs to defend or to take key points. Coordinate attacks or whatnot. Or whatever.

A skilled zerg will defeat an unskilled zerg. A skilled micro-zerg might defeat an unskilled zerg but certainly a skilled zerg will defeat a skilled micro-zerg.

Jscull.2514:

@besetment

Here is my question to you who seems to think he can be “napolian” via gw2 wvw….. Why when my guild shows up (or other 5 mans like us) and chunk off 10-15 of your epic 50 man, do they ALWAYS lose that fight? If our 5 man separates 10-15 of your lemmings/deciples from the “Zerg” why do they lose when forced to open field fight?

Probably because you’ve been playing in the bucket tiers this time and you think that everyone plays like an autoattacking bad.

Jscull.2514:

@besetment

Here is my question to you who seems to think he can be “napolian” via gw2 wvw….. Why when my guild shows up (or other 5 mans like us) and chunk off 10-15 of your epic 50 man, do they ALWAYS lose that fight? If our 5 man separates 10-15 of your lemmings/deciples from the “Zerg” why do they lose when forced to open field fight?

If I seen your group I promise to chase yall down if I have 4 behind me or 54 behind me.

Zergs are the first step in a gamers pvp experience. Problem is none of you
Know how to graduate from relying on 20+ people to win.

Also those guilds in all tiers who claim to be skilled (for those in lower tiers) and hate zerginess (for those in higher tiers) could move to us in Kaineng and hangout in Maguuma borderlands and watch out for PYRO, D|ERP, WaR or iLL guild zergs. Test your skill, post a video of yours.

zastari.1730:

Jscull.2514:

@besetment

Here is my question to you who seems to think he can be “napolian” via gw2 wvw….. Why when my guild shows up (or other 5 mans like us) and chunk off 10-15 of your epic 50 man, do they ALWAYS lose that fight? If our 5 man separates 10-15 of your lemmings/deciples from the “Zerg” why do they lose when forced to open field fight?

Probably because you’ve been playing in the bucket tiers this time and you think that everyone plays like an autoattacking bad.

Lol
Tiers = population not skill
Not saying ppl in upper tiers are bad so don’t try and twist this.

Dude you send us (in t8 btw so be apauld at this) those guilds kitten PYRO, WaR, iLL)‘s best players and I guarantee you we give them a run for all your kitten talking ego money and probably beat them. Please don’t try and tell us that zergers will ever beat elitist hardcore small man players open field with less than 10.

Besetment.9187:

If you haven’t tried it before Oozo, you should try running a 50 man. At times it can melt your brain at the number of things you need to keep track of. It involves alot of autorunning and flicking between map, screen, your own team (to spot bad behaviour from becoming bad habit) at the same time that people are screaming incomprehensible words about a zerg incoming from…somewhere. You need a alot of voice channel discipline and a chat relay or the system breaks down very easily.

I don’t mind leading 5, but I really dislike leading even 10-15. I’d never want to lead 20, 30, 40, 50, or whatever. I would refuse to do it.

Leading that many people definitely requires a specific skillset. Clear commands, charisma, map management, keeping track of enemy movements, enstilling confidence, keeping morale high, etc etc are all important. However, none of the skills necessary to lead effectively are skills specific to GW2. They are skills which are applicable to literally every aspect of life itself.

One could argue that a group of 50 is only as strong as it’s leader. But, if that is the case, where does that leave the other 49 people if the leader is removed?

Good leaders are to be commended, but if someone asks me if a person is skilled at GW2 I don’t ask myself “Well, I wonder how good he would be at leading 50 people?”

subcrazy.1098:

CHIPS.6018:

Gab Superstar.4059:

CHIPS.6018:

Jscull.2514:

CHIPS.6018:

Jscull.2514:

What’s great about all you 10+ runners all say the same things about “havoc groups” in higher tiers, that their use is “cutting supplies, killing dolyaks, cutting off back lines”…. How come none of you understand when our 5 guys leave the spawn 100% of our goal is to only kill red? It’s so hard for you Zergers to realize points D O N O T MA T T E R and we simply play to kill people? And when a group of 8-20 dies to 5 guys is a joke and shouldn’t happen but happens everyday?

And then you come on the forums and tell us how awesome your 20 man guild groups are when the truth is if you ran less you’d fall into the “joke category” otherwise you would run less….

Now I am confused. If your server’s scores doesn’t matter to you at all, where is the source of your server loyalty? Where is your source of server pride? Why stay? Is lag the only reason then? So if one day Anet changes to new servers and removes all lags, you are gone?

Yes! Prime example exhibit A. CHIPs thanks for proving my points. YOU don’t understand we play this for rvr, player vs player. Real 5 mans (dedicated focus firing guilds) don’t play this for their server or the pointless pointless “Anet point system”….

Look at my signature. Clearly we give two kittens about the server were on. It’s who is our opponents that’s the real concern because they are the ones bringing/or not bringing the Quality of fighting to the table. I never wrote one thing about lag hoss. Thanks for being part of the 95% of gw2 population which has never experienced elitest hardcore fighting and then writing in a thread about hardcore wvwers lol.

In that case your aim is a fight club. WvW aren’t really your thing. As such, you are not actually a target audience of this thread.

Some people enjoy seeing what they personally contribute to a fight. In a 5v5 I know exactly what I did well that allowed us to win, or what I did poorly that made us lose.

When you are running with 30 people though, how do you really tell? If you replaced one of those 30 with an uplevel, would you instantly do poorly? Would the same be true in a 5v5?

Yes, different types of fights appeal to different people. Also, your assessment that WvW is not really the thing for small scale roamers isn’t quite correct. You can enjoy the thrill of a larger map that is more oriented towards PvP rather than a smaller map that is oriented towards sitting in a circle. If you enter sPvP you are forced to actually sit in circles, whereas in WvW you are free to do whatever you want.

Hope this clears some things up.

Its just different.

In 5v5, you say things like “My water made a huge difference.” or “My Hundred Blades made a huge difference.”

In 60v60, you say things like “That stacked healing really saved our whole zerg there.” and “That guy who called out that ambush on Teamspeak really saved everyone.”

As for the 2nd point, I think WvW is about server points, holding keeps and towers, zerg fights, etc. Jscull said that he doesn’t care about server points, doesn’t care about holding keeps and towers, and doesn’t care about zerg fights. So I don’t think he is actually a WvWers. I will say he is doing a fight club inside the map of WvW. It might be fun for him and many others. But it aren’t WvW anymore.

What does server points get you? Nothing. So really what’s the point to get points. How does a server move up, population is the answer just look at the big guild looking to move thread. Ppl are worried it will screw other servers why because of the ppl they bring will move that server. Points mean nothing in this game population is what wins and makes t1 server t1. Again points get u nothing in the end. Enlighten me tho if u think they do.

Server points gets you personally nothing. Yup that’s true. There is very little personal benefits to server points.

The only reason you want server points: Server Pride.

Population and coverage is indeed a large part of the points. But it aren’t everything. Like I said both Magumma and Yak’s have way more people and better coverage than us. But we of Kaineng still fight hard every night for every single tick in the points. Why?

Server Pride!

Points are important to us because we want to stay in tier 3. We love the competition up here. We love these large scale battles. Falling to tier 4 is unthinkable for many of us.

But I understand, because you guys are running a fight club. As such you guys doesn’t really care which server you are on anyways. You guys fight to improve your personal skills. We of Kaineng fight to keep ourselves in tier 3. Huge difference in goals and objective. Hope this makes sense.

Very friendly rebuttal Chips, I was getting a little excited right there with this guy and realized I needed to cooldown before I write some really stupid stuff. lol

Server pride means a lot in the upper tiers. That is why you see so many mass guild transfers from one server to another when whatever server they moved from stalls in its progress.

CHIPS.6018:

But I understand, because you guys are running a fight club. As such you guys doesn’t really care which server you are on anyways. You guys fight to improve your personal skills. We of Kaineng fight to keep ourselves in tier 3. Huge difference in goals and objective. Hope this makes sense.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Crusade

Army was composed of knights and peasants (most likely it’s mostly composed of peasants). And they took Jerusalem.

Meanwhile, Kaineng was like this. Kaineng natives fought alongside with the visiting knights to reach T2. Then most of the knights left Kaineng. But a few remained. Now its up for the remaining knights and the natives to maintain in T3.

But the legacy of the knights remained and still an inspiration to the natives and those who loved Kaineng. Now they are using what they saw from the knights to fight. Slowly. Steadily.

The Kaineng story will continue…. And will endure… Forever…

Jscull.2514:

Dude you send us (in t8 btw so be apauld at this) those guilds kitten PYRO, WaR, iLL)‘s best players and I guarantee you we give them a run for all your kitten talking ego money and probably beat them. Please don’t try and tell us that zergers will ever beat elitist hardcore small man players open field with less than 10.

I think the only accurate word in that paragraph was probably “elitist”. How about you pay for a 5 man to transfer there and back and then I’ll talk about bringing 4 others with me.

you forgot taszarizi hardcore wvwers have no money

I figured they’d have enough left over from their MLG sponsorship to send some gems my way

Lol in game gold can be made in a week. Weak excuse buddy. Unless you were a Daoc real 8 manner , actually xfer an fight daily with the same guys, focus on group makeup and player builds, then I don’t believe your anywhere close to our level.

In fact tzasari or whatever, I’ll even invite you to our small man vent meeting tnite. T1 guilds-t7 guilds considering xfering to the t8 pvp platform were building. Probably around 7-10 guilds will be present tnite to discuss further building a small man atmosphere. Come throw your two cents in. If you aren’t too chicken to actually man up and let us know just how dedicated your “t-whatever” 5 man is. The meeting is in PAXA vent at 930 est. let me know and I’ll send ya the info.

@chips

I get server pride and that’s cool. But has nothing to do with points, so again points mean nothing. U might be the underdog of t3 but if u went down to t4 u will prolly be the top dog due to population. Again I was only talking points and u go on talking about fight clubs. Sorry we don’t set up fights. We want to be taken off guard by another small group we don’t want planned fights or stand in circles. In the end tiers = population, tiers don’t equal skill and points still mean nothing.

Jscull.2514:

Lol in game gold can be made in a week. Weak excuse buddy. Unless you were a Daoc real 8 manner , actually xfer an fight daily with the same guys, focus on group makeup and player builds, then I don’t believe your anywhere close to our level.

Wait… you actually think about your group composition? Sorry that’s way too much for me I just rolled mesmer and press GS1. Occasionally I press portal button to move golem a place. Sorry you can have your uber roamer trophy I had no idea what I was up against.

Jscull.2514:

Lol in game gold can be made in a week. Weak excuse buddy. Unless you were a Daoc real 8 manner , actually xfer an fight daily with the same guys, focus on group makeup and player builds, then I don’t believe your anywhere close to our level.

He is actually a pretty good player.

Oozo.7856:

Server pride means a lot in the upper tiers. That is why you see so many mass guild transfers from one server to another when whatever server they moved from stalls in its progress.

People would do whatever it takes to keep the game fun. On one hand there are people who transfer to keep themselves in the top tiers, for both strong competition and strong allies. On the other there are also people who don’t care about the server score at all and only wants to do fight clubs. Neither have any server pride. But at least they are both having their own kind of fun.

I am not here to criticize one playstyle or another. I just think everyone need to re-analyze their situation and make sure the game is fun for themselves. There are a lot of great inputs in this thread and I think everyone can learn something from this.

Jscull.2514:

Lol in game gold can be made in a week. Weak excuse buddy. Unless you were a Daoc real 8 manner , actually xfer an fight daily with the same guys, focus on group makeup and player builds, then I don’t believe your anywhere close to our level.

It costs more to transfer one group people from all of our guilds than for you to transfer yours, so it’s more logical for you to come up to T3 to test your mettle. And since you can make the gold in a week, you can’t use that as an excuse, right? Besides, AoN can handle the higher tier zerg levels, why can’t you?

Edit:

Oozo.7856:

Jscull.2514:

Lol in game gold can be made in a week. Weak excuse buddy. Unless you were a Daoc real 8 manner , actually xfer an fight daily with the same guys, focus on group makeup and player builds, then I don’t believe your anywhere close to our level.

He is actually a pretty good player.

Shh stop giving away our secrets

We already have t1 guys transferring to t8 so would be lame of us to move now. Also have more t1 guys looking to move once the t1 guys confirm its a good move or not. From what they said so far they love it.

zastari.1730:

Jscull.2514:

Lol in game gold can be made in a week. Weak excuse buddy. Unless you were a Daoc real 8 manner , actually xfer an fight daily with the same guys, focus on group makeup and player builds, then I don’t believe your anywhere close to our level.

Wait… you actually think about your group composition? Sorry that’s way too much for me I just rolled mesmer and press GS1. Occasionally I press portal button to move golem a place. Sorry you can have your uber roamer trophy I had no idea what I was up against.

Exactly, have no interest in fighting other small mans because you aren’t really that grp oriented. Sorry man, anyone that thinks like us is basically at the point of quitting this carebear starter mmo or setting up an atmosphere with competitive people. Keep up ur “higher up the ladder” mentality

It’s kinda sad how so many of you set really rigid and totally arbitrary limits on your game play.

There’s so much “all or nothing” attitudes on display.

but it’s just a temporary move, so that’s a weak excuse buddy

Jscull.2514:

zastari.1730:

Jscull.2514:

Lol in game gold can be made in a week. Weak excuse buddy. Unless you were a Daoc real 8 manner , actually xfer an fight daily with the same guys, focus on group makeup and player builds, then I don’t believe your anywhere close to our level.

Wait… you actually think about your group composition? Sorry that’s way too much for me I just rolled mesmer and press GS1. Occasionally I press portal button to move golem a place. Sorry you can have your uber roamer trophy I had no idea what I was up against.

Exactly, have no interest in fighting other small mans because you aren’t really that grp oriented. Sorry man, anyone that thinks like us is basically at the point of quitting this carebear starter mmo or setting up an atmosphere with competitive people. Keep up ur “higher up the ladder” mentality

lmao

Sayit, if running with 5 guys every night and kiting Zergs around is what you call fun, then youre right, this game is perfect for you. We like playing players as good if not better than us. Not ONLY being able to push the envelope due to a ridiculous discrepancy in numbers.

Jscull.2514:

Sayit, if running with 5 guys every night and kiting Zergs around is what you call fun, then youre right, this game is perfect for you. We like playing players as good if not better than us. Not ONLY being able to push the envelope due to a ridiculous discrepancy in numbers.

Yet you’re playing in tiers where the average player can barely kill a mob let alone another player. I got tired of so many battles that went like the link below that I had to transfer back to T3 because T6 was just stupidly poor:

saiyr.3071:

It costs more to transfer one group people from all of our guilds than for you to transfer yours, so it’s more logical for you to come up to T3 to test your mettle. And since you can make the gold in a week, you can’t use that as an excuse, right? Besides, AoN can handle the higher tier zerg levels, why can’t you?

It’s probably lost in all of the clutter, but they aren’t interested in fighting zergs they want to fight other 5 man groups. Also, the main difference between the tiers is that there aren’t zergs in every map but you always be able to find a zerg in at least one of the maps in the lower tiers. There are still 40-50 man zergs in T7. But, fighting zergs isn’t what they are looking for.

That doesn’t invalidate the first part of that post

zastari.1730:

Jscull.2514:

Sayit, if running with 5 guys every night and kiting Zergs around is what you call fun, then youre right, this game is perfect for you. We like playing players as good if not better than us. Not ONLY being able to push the envelope due to a ridiculous discrepancy in numbers.

Yet you’re playing in tiers where the average player can barely kill a mob let alone another player. I got tired of so many battles that went like the link below that I had to transfer back to T3 because T6 was just stupidly poor:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SdZY8RlFMA

There weren’t very many good players in that matchup. Things were better in T5 and they are certainly better in T7. Sometimes you get matched up against dud servers with respect to finding good roamers. To take your experiences from one week and extrapolate that to conclude that all players from lower tiers are bad isn’t very smart.

We ran across plenty of bad players on Maguuma but we never extrapolated that to conclude that all players from Maguuma were bad. In fact, the rank and file PUG group on Maguuma was much much better than what Kaineng had but they made it to a higher tier than Maguuma. How do you explain that?

Oh yes, that’s right… general player skill has little to do with what tier you are playing in. It’s about numbers and coverage.

BTW, just earlier today I saw a ranger movie where on his first day of hitting L80 he was 1v3ing three people from War Machine in T1.

Lol plz try telling me that higher tier = higher skill….. Please would LOVE to hear your reasoning…

Jscull.2514:

Lol plz try telling me that higher tier = higher skill….. Please would LOVE to hear your reasoning…

Different set of skills. 5v5 is about individual skills and team work. 60vs60 is about zerg coordination and communication.

Fair question: Did you ever tried commanding a 60 men zerg on teamspeak?

If you never tired that, that is a whole section of GW2 gameplay that you are missing in lower tiers.

Oozo.7856:

There weren’t very many good players in that matchup. Things were better in T5 and they are certainly better in T7. Sometimes you get matched up against dud servers with respect to finding good roamers. To take your experiences from one week and extrapolate that to conclude that all players from lower tiers are bad isn’t very smart.

We ran across plenty of bad players on Maguuma but we never extrapolated that to conclude that all players from Maguuma were bad. In fact, the rank and file PUG group on Maguuma was much much better than what Kaineng had but they made it to a higher tier than Maguuma. How do you explain that?

Oh yes, that’s right… general player skill has little to do with what tier you are playing in. It’s about numbers and coverage.

BTW, just earlier today I saw a ranger movie where on his first day of hitting L80 he was 1v3ing three people from War Machine in T1.

Tsarazi has been in more tiers than that, FWIW, but I dunno how they were back then. I don’t think the point is that higher tier = higher skill as much as lower tier doesn’t imply higher skill, which I feel like the other guy is trying to say (60 mans mashing 1/2 posts, etc). Assuming he can just beat every guild in T3 knowing little more than their names is embarrassing

CHIPS.6018:

Jscull.2514:

Lol plz try telling me that higher tier = higher skill….. Please would LOVE to hear your reasoning…

Different set of skills. 5v5 is about individual skills and team work. 60vs60 is about zerg coordination and communication.

Fair question: Did you ever tried commanding a 60 men zerg on teamspeak?

If you never tired that, that is a whole section of GW2 gameplay that you are missing in lower tiers.

You say missing like we went to the theme park and didn’t go on the best roller coaster. I don’t want to overly be a jerk, but CHIPS most of the people I know (our guild, other 5 mans) aren’t really interested in “huge epic battles”. What we want when we log on and spend real life hours playing this video game, is to come across a team with fairish if not even numbers that are up to the task of giving us a serious run for our money. Beat us, we beat them, any option can happen, and the fight ends up lasting 2-3 straight minutes.

saiyr.3071:

Oozo.7856:

There weren’t very many good players in that matchup. Things were better in T5 and they are certainly better in T7. Sometimes you get matched up against dud servers with respect to finding good roamers. To take your experiences from one week and extrapolate that to conclude that all players from lower tiers are bad isn’t very smart.

We ran across plenty of bad players on Maguuma but we never extrapolated that to conclude that all players from Maguuma were bad. In fact, the rank and file PUG group on Maguuma was much much better than what Kaineng had but they made it to a higher tier than Maguuma. How do you explain that?

Oh yes, that’s right… general player skill has little to do with what tier you are playing in. It’s about numbers and coverage.

BTW, just earlier today I saw a ranger movie where on his first day of hitting L80 he was 1v3ing three people from War Machine in T1.

Tsarazi has been in more tiers than that, FWIW, but I dunno how they were back then. I don’t think the point is that higher tier = higher skill as much as lower tier doesn’t imply higher skill, which I feel like the other guy is trying to say (60 mans mashing 1/2 posts, etc). Assuming he can just beat every guild in T3 knowing little more than their names is embarrassing

Embarrassing to who? You have an “we’re above you in tier so we clearly would womp you mentality”

I invited you to our vent to listen in/chime in with 10 other guilds talking about this. I’m not biaaaatching out, I’m stepping up and inviting you.

saiyr.3071:

Oozo.7856:

There weren’t very many good players in that matchup. Things were better in T5 and they are certainly better in T7. Sometimes you get matched up against dud servers with respect to finding good roamers. To take your experiences from one week and extrapolate that to conclude that all players from lower tiers are bad isn’t very smart.

We ran across plenty of bad players on Maguuma but we never extrapolated that to conclude that all players from Maguuma were bad. In fact, the rank and file PUG group on Maguuma was much much better than what Kaineng had but they made it to a higher tier than Maguuma. How do you explain that?

Oh yes, that’s right… general player skill has little to do with what tier you are playing in. It’s about numbers and coverage.

BTW, just earlier today I saw a ranger movie where on his first day of hitting L80 he was 1v3ing three people from War Machine in T1.

Tsarazi has been in more tiers than that, FWIW, but I dunno how they were back then. I don’t think the point is that higher tier = higher skill as much as lower tier doesn’t imply higher skill, which I feel like the other guy is trying to say (60 mans mashing 1/2 posts, etc). Assuming he can just beat every guild in T3 knowing little more than their names is embarrassing

Yes, Tsarazi also has some movies of beating a small guild group from SBI and some clips against CD, I believe. But, those are higher tier. How did that happen? Some servers have better roamers than others and that has to do more with what guilds are on that server than what tier that server is in.

What tier you are in is irrelevant to individual player skill whether it be high, mid, or low tier. Just like not everyone in upper tiers runs around in huge zergs and not everyone in lower tiers is running in small groups.

I think the problem that some in lower tiers had with this post is him saying the real “hardcore” players should be in the upper tiers doing 60v60. To me a hardcore player is someone who puts their reputation and name on the line by running in a small group fighting other small groups. That is my definition of hardcore when it comes to this game.

Running inside the anonymity of a huge zerg is not hardcore. Just the way I see it.

Jscull.2514:

saiyr.3071:

Oozo.7856:

There weren’t very many good players in that matchup. Things were better in T5 and they are certainly better in T7. Sometimes you get matched up against dud servers with respect to finding good roamers. To take your experiences from one week and extrapolate that to conclude that all players from lower tiers are bad isn’t very smart.

We ran across plenty of bad players on Maguuma but we never extrapolated that to conclude that all players from Maguuma were bad. In fact, the rank and file PUG group on Maguuma was much much better than what Kaineng had but they made it to a higher tier than Maguuma. How do you explain that?

Oh yes, that’s right… general player skill has little to do with what tier you are playing in. It’s about numbers and coverage.

BTW, just earlier today I saw a ranger movie where on his first day of hitting L80 he was 1v3ing three people from War Machine in T1.

Tsarazi has been in more tiers than that, FWIW, but I dunno how they were back then. I don’t think the point is that higher tier = higher skill as much as lower tier doesn’t imply higher skill, which I feel like the other guy is trying to say (60 mans mashing 1/2 posts, etc). Assuming he can just beat every guild in T3 knowing little more than their names is embarrassing

Embarrassing to who? You have an “we’re above you in tier so we clearly would womp you mentality”

I invited you to our vent to listen in/chime in with 10 other guilds talking about this. I’m not biaaaatching out, I’m stepping up and inviting you.

Please point me to the exact post where I exhibited this mentality. As far as I can tell, I did not make any posts stating that my guild or any others on my server could beat you.

Oozo.7856:

saiyr.3071:

Oozo.7856:

There weren’t very many good players in that matchup. Things were better in T5 and they are certainly better in T7. Sometimes you get matched up against dud servers with respect to finding good roamers. To take your experiences from one week and extrapolate that to conclude that all players from lower tiers are bad isn’t very smart.

We ran across plenty of bad players on Maguuma but we never extrapolated that to conclude that all players from Maguuma were bad. In fact, the rank and file PUG group on Maguuma was much much better than what Kaineng had but they made it to a higher tier than Maguuma. How do you explain that?

Oh yes, that’s right… general player skill has little to do with what tier you are playing in. It’s about numbers and coverage.

BTW, just earlier today I saw a ranger movie where on his first day of hitting L80 he was 1v3ing three people from War Machine in T1.

Tsarazi has been in more tiers than that, FWIW, but I dunno how they were back then. I don’t think the point is that higher tier = higher skill as much as lower tier doesn’t imply higher skill, which I feel like the other guy is trying to say (60 mans mashing 1/2 posts, etc). Assuming he can just beat every guild in T3 knowing little more than their names is embarrassing

Yes, Tsarazi also has some movies of beating a small guild group from SBI and some clips against CD, I believe. But, those are higher tier. How did that happen? Some servers have better roamers than others and that has to do more with what guilds are on that server than what tier that server is in.

What tier you are in is irrelevant to individual player skill whether it be high, mid, or low tier. Just like not everyone in upper tiers runs around in huge zergs and not everyone in lower tiers is running in small groups.

I think the problem that some in lower tiers had with this post is him saying the real “hardcore” players should be in the upper tiers doing 60v60. To me a hardcore player is someone who puts their reputation and name on the line by running in a small group fighting other small groups. That is my definition of hardcore when it comes to this game.

Running inside the anonymity of a huge zerg is not hardcore. Just the way I see it.

The premise of this thread is something else entirely and I purposely haven’t made any serious comments about it.

I love the terms like “carbear” and “hardcore” that are being thrown around.
You realize that you are playing a game with cartoon pictures that move right? Any activity you can do while sitting and eating pizza rolls while in your underwear is inherently not hardcore.

Hematuria.4051:

I love the terms like “carbear” and “hardcore” that are being thrown around.
You realize that you are playing a game with cartoon pictures that move right? Any activity you can do while sitting and eating pizza rolls while in your underwear is inherently not hardcore.

This legit made me laugh, thanks lol.

Hematuria.4051:

I love the terms like “carbear” and “hardcore” that are being thrown around.
You realize that you are playing a game with cartoon pictures that move right? Any activity you can do while sitting and eating pizza rolls while in your underwear is inherently not hardcore.

I dunno, to me doing that is exactly the definition of hardcore. Well, maybe add a sock or so to the side

Well, you can man siege while eating pizza rolls in your underwear and you zergsurf while eating pizza rolls in your underwear but you can’t win a 5v5 against good players eating pizza rolls in your underwear unless they are also eating pizza rolls in their underwear.

Which has been known to happen.

Jscull.2514:

saiyr.3071:

Oozo.7856:

There weren’t very many good players in that matchup. Things were better in T5 and they are certainly better in T7. Sometimes you get matched up against dud servers with respect to finding good roamers. To take your experiences from one week and extrapolate that to conclude that all players from lower tiers are bad isn’t very smart.

We ran across plenty of bad players on Maguuma but we never extrapolated that to conclude that all players from Maguuma were bad. In fact, the rank and file PUG group on Maguuma was much much better than what Kaineng had but they made it to a higher tier than Maguuma. How do you explain that?

Oh yes, that’s right… general player skill has little to do with what tier you are playing in. It’s about numbers and coverage.

BTW, just earlier today I saw a ranger movie where on his first day of hitting L80 he was 1v3ing three people from War Machine in T1.

Tsarazi has been in more tiers than that, FWIW, but I dunno how they were back then. I don’t think the point is that higher tier = higher skill as much as lower tier doesn’t imply higher skill, which I feel like the other guy is trying to say (60 mans mashing 1/2 posts, etc). Assuming he can just beat every guild in T3 knowing little more than their names is embarrassing

Embarrassing to who? You have an “we’re above you in tier so we clearly would womp you mentality”

I invited you to our vent to listen in/chime in with 10 other guilds talking about this. I’m not biaaaatching out, I’m stepping up and inviting you.

Please point out where I assumed I could beat any t3 small man? Look at the word choice I used amigo. Said we give them a run for their money…..Keep dodging the fact that we have a bunch of true (have less than 10 guys in their guild total) small mans coming to our vent tonight to discuss an actual platform for small man roaming/fighting in t8.

You probably play mesmer right? Dodge roll, dodge roll, dodge roll. Keeeeeeeep on dodging

Jscull.2514:

Lol plz try telling me that higher tier = higher skill….. Please would LOVE to hear your reasoning…

Higher tier = higher skill. There, I said it. You may also check out the dictionary meaning of server “rank”

Oozo.7856:

Well, you can man siege while eating pizza rolls in your underwear and you zergsurf while eating pizza rolls in your underwear but you can’t win a 5v5 against good players eating pizza rolls in your underwear unless they are also eating pizza rolls in their underwear.

Which has been known to happen.

Oozo, I think if you can’t 5v5 good players while eating pizza rolls you just need more practice. I mean gosh, that’s like Hardcore 101.

Jscull.2514:

Jscull.2514:

saiyr.3071:

Oozo.7856:

There weren’t very many good players in that matchup. Things were better in T5 and they are certainly better in T7. Sometimes you get matched up against dud servers with respect to finding good roamers. To take your experiences from one week and extrapolate that to conclude that all players from lower tiers are bad isn’t very smart.

We ran across plenty of bad players on Maguuma but we never extrapolated that to conclude that all players from Maguuma were bad. In fact, the rank and file PUG group on Maguuma was much much better than what Kaineng had but they made it to a higher tier than Maguuma. How do you explain that?

Oh yes, that’s right… general player skill has little to do with what tier you are playing in. It’s about numbers and coverage.

BTW, just earlier today I saw a ranger movie where on his first day of hitting L80 he was 1v3ing three people from War Machine in T1.

Tsarazi has been in more tiers than that, FWIW, but I dunno how they were back then. I don’t think the point is that higher tier = higher skill as much as lower tier doesn’t imply higher skill, which I feel like the other guy is trying to say (60 mans mashing 1/2 posts, etc). Assuming he can just beat every guild in T3 knowing little more than their names is embarrassing

Embarrassing to who? You have an “we’re above you in tier so we clearly would womp you mentality”

I invited you to our vent to listen in/chime in with 10 other guilds talking about this. I’m not biaaaatching out, I’m stepping up and inviting you.

Please point out where I assumed I could beat any t3 small man? Look at the word choice I used amigo. Said we give them a run for their money…..Keep dodging the fact that we have a bunch of true (have less than 10 guys in their guild total) small mans coming to our vent tonight to discuss an actual platform for small man roaming/fighting in t8.

You probably play mesmer right? Dodge roll, dodge roll, dodge roll. Keeeeeeeep on dodging

Haha, okay, I dislike you less now for that zinger. But no, I don’t play Mesmer. I am not dodging your invitation, I just don’t care about it. I have no intentions of leaving my server.

Calvin.5380:

Jscull.2514:

Lol plz try telling me that higher tier = higher skill….. Please would LOVE to hear your reasoning…

Higher tier = higher skill. There, I said it. You may also check out the dictionary meaning of server “rank”

in this game the Server “rank” just shows how well the coverage is for that server not the skill of the players in that server.

Brando.1374:

Calvin.5380:

Jscull.2514:

Lol plz try telling me that higher tier = higher skill….. Please would LOVE to hear your reasoning…

Higher tier = higher skill. There, I said it. You may also check out the dictionary meaning of server “rank”

in this game the Server “rank” just shows how well the coverage is for that server not the skill of the players in that server.

It would be wise to not start a conversation with this dandy fellow

Brando.1374:

Calvin.5380:

Jscull.2514:

Lol plz try telling me that higher tier = higher skill….. Please would LOVE to hear your reasoning…

Higher tier = higher skill. There, I said it. You may also check out the dictionary meaning of server “rank”

in this game the Server “rank” just shows how well the coverage is for that server not the skill of the players in that server.

I don’t think he was serious.

This is a great question, and I feel that my answer may get lost among the many pages of this post, but here it goes.

Forgive, I am going to use a sports analogy, and apply the thought process of High School spots to WvW.

You have the top tiers, they would be called the varsity (lets say T 1 – 3) It is not because they better skilled, or better players, but because they put more effort into it. They play after school, every day, and work on becoming the best they can be at what they do.

Then you have the J V teams (Tier 4 – 6) these guys are not quite varsity, but they are working on it, prepping, building, and looking to make the cut. This is the tier where the Fair weather players start to ween off and such, the Up levels start to fall back and people start to get on the same page with each other.

Then you have the Gym Class group. (T7 – 8 ) ok. We got some talent out there, but that’s all it is, talent, we play for the fun, we don’t take it too serious. We bring our PvE builds into the game, we up level, and all that. Because, come on.. it’s gym class.

or such is my feelings on it.