Guild Wars 2

CHIPS.6018:

Xom.9264:

I doubt once you get into the 30+ zerg range adding another 30 is going to change the tactics.

Anyway I hope those screen shots are not yours, because if they are you lost alot of points in my eyes. Those utility choices are…. not optimal some are ok but not for the kind of fighting you are doing. I can see spectral wall in a zerg fight on a push… but blood is power and spectral walk in a zerg fight… solo sure but not zerg.

I’m sure you are a great commander but this goes to the point of small scale fighters that look for other small scale fighters are just plain going to be better at the class they play and how it interacts with teammates and foes.

Seeing all the red bunched up there and your lack of perhaps the two best utilities in the game for those kinds of fights is a let down. I hate to sound elitist because I’m not at all…. but man why would you not have epidemic and corrupt boon when you are clearly a condition necro?

/shrug

And you lose a lot of points in my eyes for suggesting Epidemic in a 60vs60 zerg fight. The game lag and computer lag, combined with its new line of sight requirement make Epidemic useless in WvW, specially for tower defense.

You clearly have very little experience with 60vs60, and no experience with tower defense. You don’t even browse the necro forums much. If you do, you would not ever mention Epidemic for WvW.

You probably do a lot of 5v5 to 20v20 open field battles, and your opinions are based from that. It just goes to show how different the two game play type is.

So you dont use the two skill based game changer utilities a condition necro has because of lagggggg, yet you claim T1-3 is of a higher skill level…. So you are actually a skilled zerger yet the lag is stopping you from showing your skills, lag my be causing you to just faceroll marks and run around a bit not really targeting anything.

I watched 1 min of your vid I seen targets that are clearly gaurds with a million boons on them… the good player would have selected the target corrupted the boon maybe laydown a few marks then cast epidemic. If lag stops you from doing that well then how do you know if you are a good player or not if you can never do actual combos and just resort to spaming marks?

Even if you land epidemic less then half the time it would be doing a heck of alot more then spectral wall, spectral walk and blood is power. I used to post on the Necro forums alot I stopped wasting my time. WvW necros are a good choice in large scale fights and epidemic is one of those reason.

I don’t always zerg but when I do I chose Epidemic.

(wells are also a good choice but I run them mostly with power builds)

Xom.9264:

CHIPS.6018:

Xom.9264:

I doubt once you get into the 30+ zerg range adding another 30 is going to change the tactics.

Anyway I hope those screen shots are not yours, because if they are you lost alot of points in my eyes. Those utility choices are…. not optimal some are ok but not for the kind of fighting you are doing. I can see spectral wall in a zerg fight on a push… but blood is power and spectral walk in a zerg fight… solo sure but not zerg.

I’m sure you are a great commander but this goes to the point of small scale fighters that look for other small scale fighters are just plain going to be better at the class they play and how it interacts with teammates and foes.

Seeing all the red bunched up there and your lack of perhaps the two best utilities in the game for those kinds of fights is a let down. I hate to sound elitist because I’m not at all…. but man why would you not have epidemic and corrupt boon when you are clearly a condition necro?

/shrug

And you lose a lot of points in my eyes for suggesting Epidemic in a 60vs60 zerg fight. The game lag and computer lag, combined with its new line of sight requirement make Epidemic useless in WvW, specially for tower defense.

You clearly have very little experience with 60vs60, and no experience with tower defense. You don’t even browse the necro forums much. If you do, you would not ever mention Epidemic for WvW.

You probably do a lot of 5v5 to 20v20 open field battles, and your opinions are based from that. It just goes to show how different the two game play type is.

So you dont use the two skill based game changer utilities a condition necro has because of lagggggg, yet you claim T1-3 is of a higher skill level…. So you are actually a skilled zerger yet the lag is stopping you from showing your skills, lag my be causing you to just faceroll marks and run around a bit not really targeting anything.

I watched 1 min of your vid I seen targets that are clearly gaurds with a million boons on them… the good player would have selected the target corrupted the boon maybe laydown a few marks then cast epidemic. If lag stops you from doing that well then how do you know if you are a good player or not if you can never do actual combos and just resort to spaming marks?

Even if you land epidemic less then half the time it would be doing a heck of alot more then spectral wall, spectral walk and blood is power. I used to post on the Necro forums alot I stopped wasting my time. WvW necros are a good choice in large scale fights and epidemic is one of those reason.

I don’t always zerg but when I do I chose Epidemic.

(wells are also a good choice but I run them mostly with power builds)

Dude, can you really pick out that “booned” guy or that “conditioned” guy in a zerg of 60 foes, while following your commander on teamspeak and sticking tight right next to him 24/7?

Did I mention that the enemy zerg are often group stealthed before the engagement, so you cannot use any single target skills against them?

I can see Epidemic working very well in a 5v5, 10v10 and 20v20. But once zergs hits 60+ it is a very different ball game. Lots of skills won’t work there, while others that sucks in small scale works really well.

As for the server lag, its gotten much better ever since we came to tier 3. The zergs are slightly smaller, both ours and our enemies, so we can use our skills instantly most of the time. My previous point on lag is about a full on 80vs80 zerg fight in tier 1 and tier 2.

Two pictures of a 80 men zerg. Will Epidemic help you here?

I may not be hardcore wvw, @T3 still have yet to encounter any zerg that causes skill lag, some fps reduction yes, skill lag no, but cant vouch for t1+t2. Hate to break it to you lower tiers that are trying show of your l33t skillz, but theres still roaming groups in the higher tiers, if they do their job right they wreak havoc on the enemy zerg, causing it to split or eliminating supply. Thats tactics and strategy right there, but as a roaming group you have to know if youre caught youre dead. Only during reset/weekend is there queue times usually just EB, occasionally a BL but even at its worst its like 10 minutes and you can still enter another BL where something happening.

Now, I’d hate to be on a lower tier server, arrowcarts would make it impossible for a 5man group to take anything, 1 person gets into that tower and its GG for you “skilled” roamers!

Can I change targets fast or ping a target for a boon rip into epidemic, sure alot of necros do its kind of the point of condition spec. Sometimes I miss but when it lands its a benefit and worth the extra effort. I dont see the point in arguing, yes I think epidemic or wells would be better choices but perhaps it does not matter because the best choice would be an arrow cart vs a blob of red like that.

Anyway I see you moved to T3 and its lowering skill lag, thats a solid reason for leaving the high tiers. What would you have to say if someone made a thread like you just did but set the lower limit at T2?

Ill give you this, perhaps your commanders are more practiced at ordering a zerg around. I dont fully buy into it as there is no way to prove it. I have seen commanders on Mag when it was still a lower tier do some very slick things as i have seen from some T8 commanders also.

CHIPS.6018:

Two pictures of a 80 men zerg. Will Epidemic help you here?

That’s two zergs colliding, not one single zerg. One side says Fort Aspenwood, the other is Tarnished Coast. Also, the comment there at 8:47 pm, by one Mr. Rickety, is precisely why high tiers suck lol. 10+ minute queue times? Seriously? No thank you, I’m happy here in T4 and T5 with my legitimately skilled opponents, lack of skill lag, and free roaming.

My question is, why are you and your crew not all up in that? There be fun potential in there.

CHIPS.6018:

Xom.9264:

CHIPS.6018:

Xom.9264:

I doubt once you get into the 30+ zerg range adding another 30 is going to change the tactics.

Anyway I hope those screen shots are not yours, because if they are you lost alot of points in my eyes. Those utility choices are…. not optimal some are ok but not for the kind of fighting you are doing. I can see spectral wall in a zerg fight on a push… but blood is power and spectral walk in a zerg fight… solo sure but not zerg.

I’m sure you are a great commander but this goes to the point of small scale fighters that look for other small scale fighters are just plain going to be better at the class they play and how it interacts with teammates and foes.

Seeing all the red bunched up there and your lack of perhaps the two best utilities in the game for those kinds of fights is a let down. I hate to sound elitist because I’m not at all…. but man why would you not have epidemic and corrupt boon when you are clearly a condition necro?

/shrug

And you lose a lot of points in my eyes for suggesting Epidemic in a 60vs60 zerg fight. The game lag and computer lag, combined with its new line of sight requirement make Epidemic useless in WvW, specially for tower defense.

You clearly have very little experience with 60vs60, and no experience with tower defense. You don’t even browse the necro forums much. If you do, you would not ever mention Epidemic for WvW.

You probably do a lot of 5v5 to 20v20 open field battles, and your opinions are based from that. It just goes to show how different the two game play type is.

So you dont use the two skill based game changer utilities a condition necro has because of lagggggg, yet you claim T1-3 is of a higher skill level…. So you are actually a skilled zerger yet the lag is stopping you from showing your skills, lag my be causing you to just faceroll marks and run around a bit not really targeting anything.

I watched 1 min of your vid I seen targets that are clearly gaurds with a million boons on them… the good player would have selected the target corrupted the boon maybe laydown a few marks then cast epidemic. If lag stops you from doing that well then how do you know if you are a good player or not if you can never do actual combos and just resort to spaming marks?

Even if you land epidemic less then half the time it would be doing a heck of alot more then spectral wall, spectral walk and blood is power. I used to post on the Necro forums alot I stopped wasting my time. WvW necros are a good choice in large scale fights and epidemic is one of those reason.

I don’t always zerg but when I do I chose Epidemic.

(wells are also a good choice but I run them mostly with power builds)

Dude, can you really pick out that “booned” guy or that “conditioned” guy in a zerg of 60 foes, while following your commander on teamspeak and sticking tight right next to him 24/7?

Did I mention that the enemy zerg are often group stealthed before the engagement, so you cannot use any single target skills against them?

I can see Epidemic working very well in a 5v5, 10v10 and 20v20. But once zergs hits 60+ it is a very different ball game. Lots of skills won’t work there, while others that sucks in small scale works really well.

As for the server lag, its gotten much better ever since we came to tier 3. The zergs are slightly smaller, both ours and our enemies, so we can use our skills instantly most of the time. My previous point on lag is about a full on 80vs80 zerg fight in tier 1 and tier 2.

Two pictures of a 80 men zerg. Will Epidemic help you here?

Properly used it will because that’s multiple blinds weakness bleeds and vulns constantly moved around providing a ton of mitigation with fumble and blind

@chips,

You just gavve us all the excuse of not being able to find a boon filled target because youre too busy following a commander, there’s 60 enemies and you’re in team speak? Are you serious?

You wait and find the boon filled target and then (while not over extending like 60% of gw2 does) you blow your corrupt boon and epidemic when that dude is in the middle of a bunch of others. Yes it may not be your first target…. That’s where knowing what/when to do things and use abilities shows you semi know what you’re doing….. I don’t even play necro, good lord.

I have my Mouse 3 button set to forward to the next target. I just go click’ click click click until I get my target… It’ snot hard.

Also, for the record, T4 & T5 have plenty of big zerg-on-zerg during peak and reset. It’s just, with SBI, we have COVERAGE issues. We had 8 people, if we’re lucky, on at night so we lose all our stuff to SoS and CD.

Jscull.2514:

@chips,

You just gavve us all the excuse of not being able to find a boon filled target because youre too busy following a commander, there’s 60 enemies and you’re in team speak? Are you serious?

You wait and find the boon filled target and then (while not over extending like 60% of gw2 does) you blow your corrupt boon and epidemic when that dude is in the middle of a bunch of others. Yes it may not be your first target…. That’s where knowing what/when to do things and use abilities shows you semi know what you’re doing….. I don’t even play necro, good lord.

I understand it might sound funny to you. But what I said are all true. I cannot prove it to you. You have experience higher tier wvw first hand to see what I mean.

I read your description on how to use that skill. It sounds to me that your aim is to be an opportunist and find a good timing to spike the zerg. My aim is consistent AoE damage during each zerg charge to eventually wear out the enemy zerg. Huge difference.

Once again I am not saying skills like Epidemic is impossible to use. I just found it too much trouble and too inconsistent to carry for large zerg fights.

I do have one question: Why carry Corrupt boon over Well of Corruption?

MosesZD.7428:

I have my Mouse 3 button set to forward to the next target. I just go click’ click click click until I get my target… It’ snot hard.

Also, for the record, T4 & T5 have plenty of big zerg-on-zerg during peak and reset. It’s just, with SBI, we have COVERAGE issues. We had 8 people, if we’re lucky, on at night so we lose all our stuff to SoS and CD.

I experimented with that “next target” thing. It will start off with the closest target on your screen, and then move on to the next closest. The problem is that it takes a while before you finally locate that “booned” or “conditioned” target. That time is not always available.

In a 60vs60 zerg fight when the commander say charge, you better start dealing damage and contributing right away. And you do have to be stacked on him 24/7. There is very little time for fancy play. If you fall behind your commander you would often die.

Long story short, you are better off using Well of Corruption against boons. For damage you are better off using Mark of Blood, Damage wells and Poison Cloud over Epidemic. It is all about consistency and time limit.

CHIPS.6018:

@chips,

I do have one question: Why carry Corrupt boon over Well of Corruption?

Will use a guard for example.

Guard uses Save Yourselves!, so he gets 7 boons. You Corrupt all 7 and spread all 7 with Epidemic to 4 other ppl, u poison yourself with corrupt boon but if you using dagger off hand just use 4 on your target to get it off or use it get more healing on yourself.

Well of corruption 1 boon every sec for only 5 sec which is only 5 boons striped if they stayed in the well. The dark field is nice tho. Yes this is to more then 1 target but no one stays in those for longer then 1 sec and dont go back to that area till the well is gone if they have half a brain

In the end corrupt boon does all boons, well only does 1 every sec for 5 sec and u have to hope the enemies stay in it to get 5 boons off. Corrupt boon is more controlled and the well is more random.

I also think wells are great for 1 on 1 when u can lock them in it. Or in spvp cause it almost takes up the whole circle to help u get caps off cause it forces ppl out.

subcrazy.1098:

CHIPS.6018:

@chips,

I do have one question: Why carry Corrupt boon over Well of Corruption?

Will use a guard for example.

Guard uses Save Yourselves!, so he gets 7 boons. You Corrupt all 7 and spread all 7 with Epidemic to 4 other ppl, u poison yourself with corrupt boon but if you using dagger off hand just use 4 on your target to get it off or use it get more healing on yourself.

Well of corruption 1 boon every sec for only 5 sec which is only 5 boons striped if they stayed in the well. The dark field is nice tho. Yes this is to more then 1 target but no one stays in those for longer then 1 sec and dont go back to that area till the well is gone if they have half a brain

In the end corrupt boon does all boons, well only does 1 every sec for 5 sec and u have to hope the enemies stay in it to get 5 boons off. Corrupt boon is more controlled and the well is more random.

I also think wells are great for 1 on 1 when u can lock them in it. Or in spvp cause it almost takes up the whole circle to help u get caps off cause it forces ppl out.

I agree with this I never run well of corruption

subcrazy.1098:

CHIPS.6018:

@chips,

I do have one question: Why carry Corrupt boon over Well of Corruption?

Will use a guard for example.

Guard uses Save Yourselves!, so he gets 7 boons. You Corrupt all 7 and spread all 7 with Epidemic to 4 other ppl, u poison yourself with corrupt boon but if you using dagger off hand just use 4 on your target to get it off or use it get more healing on yourself.

Well of corruption 1 boon every sec for only 5 sec which is only 5 boons striped if they stayed in the well. The dark field is nice tho. Yes this is to more then 1 target but no one stays in those for longer then 1 sec and dont go back to that area till the well is gone if they have half a brain

In the end corrupt boon does all boons, well only does 1 every sec for 5 sec and u have to hope the enemies stay in it to get 5 boons off. Corrupt boon is more controlled and the well is more random.

I also think wells are great for 1 on 1 when u can lock them in it. Or in spvp cause it almost takes up the whole circle to help u get caps off cause it forces ppl out.

I see. I agree that Corrupt Boon+Epidemic works pretty well. But if my goal is just general condition removal against a zerg I would prefer Well of Corruption. Overall that Well of Corruption would remove a lot more than 7 conditions.

Know what the single most powerful trend in GW2 is? That bandwagon servers always collapse. HoD, SoS, Eredon, IoJ, SBI, Kaineng. All have experienced population surges as they push up the ranks, followed by mass transfers and ranking collapse as the WvW guilds transfer to a new server. The current bandwagon is Blackgate. Soon, Blackgate will collapse and we’ll begin the cycle anew.

Why on earth would you want to continue the cycle and promote server badwagoning. It’s absurd.

1 boon removed per person isn’t as great as it sounds if it prioritizedlretaliation or something it would be much more useful well of darkness and suffering would be much better with a well spec then run poison cloud for the fumble

CHIPS.6018:

subcrazy.1098:

CHIPS.6018:

@chips,

I do have one question: Why carry Corrupt boon over Well of Corruption?

Will use a guard for example.

Guard uses Save Yourselves!, so he gets 7 boons. You Corrupt all 7 and spread all 7 with Epidemic to 4 other ppl, u poison yourself with corrupt boon but if you using dagger off hand just use 4 on your target to get it off or use it get more healing on yourself.

Well of corruption 1 boon every sec for only 5 sec which is only 5 boons striped if they stayed in the well. The dark field is nice tho. Yes this is to more then 1 target but no one stays in those for longer then 1 sec and dont go back to that area till the well is gone if they have half a brain

In the end corrupt boon does all boons, well only does 1 every sec for 5 sec and u have to hope the enemies stay in it to get 5 boons off. Corrupt boon is more controlled and the well is more random.

I also think wells are great for 1 on 1 when u can lock them in it. Or in spvp cause it almost takes up the whole circle to help u get caps off cause it forces ppl out.

I see. I agree that Corrupt Boon+Epidemic works pretty well. But if my goal is just general condition removal against a zerg I would prefer Well of Corruption. Overall that Well of Corruption would remove a lot more than 7 conditions.

So lets say u remove 1 RANDOM boon off every person in there and they get out i’ll even give u lets say it hits 12 ppl for 1 boon. So 1 boon off each in the end of the 5 sec, if i lose 1 boon off me out of my 4+ on me, thats not going to scare me, now changing all boons on me to condi scares the hell out of me, and then spreading all of them to 4 allies scares them too.

frostshade.3617:

1 boon removed per person isn’t as great as it sounds if it prioritizedlretaliation or something it would be much more useful well of darkness and suffering would be much better with a well spec then run poison cloud for the fumble

Yep I would rather use poison cloud too if I was a zerger. You just get so much more out of poison cloud and it sits there for 12 sec.

I love that this thread is still happening. Started by a KN fanboy talking about how much better WvW is in the top tiers…as his server continues it’s slide downward.

So, who thinks he’ll start a thread talking about how awesome T4 is once they go that far?

Chris.3290:

I love that this thread is still happening. Started by a KN fanboy talking about how much better WvW is in the top tiers…as his server continues it’s slide downward.

So, who thinks he’ll start a thread talking about how awesome T4 is once they go that far?

We are in #2 spot in tier 3 this week. If we keep up this effort we can will stay in tier 3. But the danger of falling to tier 4 is very real. Fact is Yak’s have more manpower than we do. Yak’s will eventually improve and up their game, so we must do that same constantly. We bring our A-game every night because we really enjoy the high intensity competition up here in higher tiers so we aim to stay up here.

Try transferring to a lower tier for a week and you’ll see how fun roaming is. Never heard of roaming in your higher tier? Ah, sorry mate, you’re missing out.

Wells are opportunity cost and area denial skills. The main purpose of them is to create an area on the battlefield that your enemy does not really want to fight in. You want to force them to make the choice of whether to do that or not.

The aim is really to catch an enemy team unprepared so lots of their players are out of position to provide support where it is most needed, or to force enemy teams to burn key abilities that can be used to weaken your position.

Large structured team fights are basically jousting contests. For example, the primary purpose of Guardian wards (i.e. line of warding/ring of warding) is not to get an aoe knockdown. If you happen to get an aoe knockdown then thats a bonus.

Its really to force a large enemy team to move around the ward so their whole team has to redo their approach and you can catch them out of position. If you can force them to swing around a line of warding, you can open up a flank. The other primary purpose of springing wards is to force the enemy team to burn stability too early.

Targeting in GW2 makes skills like Epidemic and Corrupt Boon more difficult to use effectively when theres lots of players. In a 5 man party you can call target on an enemy, everyone else can press T to lock on so a coordinated spike or bomb on the target is easy. You can instantly load a target with condition pressure and spread it.

When you run significantly more than 5 people against very large zergs that move properly, it can be a crapshoot as to whether or not you can identify and mark the most desirable target in time. For a start, your screen gets very chaotic in large team fights and for positioning purposes you tend to have your target reticle on an ally, usually a commander or a person who is calling movement in voice comm. You take your target off that ally and you lose a visual queue that tells you where you need to be in relation to your commander.

Running in a tight ball also has a very good defensive advantage in that your enemy sees you as a blob of overlapping red names. They have to identify you based on virtues and signets and you have to tab target through them.

Getting people in different parties to identify and mark the same target is not feisible right now. You would need a system whereby you can mark multiple enemies, mark allies as well as enemies and you would need a system where you can call target that is visible to an entire squad.

That isn’t to say you can’t use Epidemic or Corrupt Boon in large team fighting. You can but you will sometimes find that you are wrestling with a UI and targeting system that doesn’t make it easy to coordinate a condition bomb across parties.

Most ground target (persistent) aoe can be thought of as means to create artificially favourable terrain.

Terrain in WvW is huge. You always want to be using terrain to your advantage. If you kite around houses or other obstacles you can substantially reduce an enemy team’s ability to ranged DPS you by denying line of sight to a large numbers of their players. You can even force them to move around the obstacle so they can range you properly. In this way you can control their movement. Similarly, you use elevation, switchbacks etc to separate or blindside teams so they can’t deliver damage at the same time and are out of position to support each other (making them extremely prone to collapse).

When you think about it, abilities like Sanctuary, essentially create favourable (but temporary) terrain for you and it becomes a question of placing and timing them correctly so they can be used to open flanks.

You need to teach players when and when not to use a static field, but it requires some knowledge of how other classes work. I would always look out for stability on enemy players – when it was last used and what the duration was, since that tells you how you should use a static field. You can place it in front of an enemy team thats rushing you to break their line and force them into a turn (thus opening a flank), but only if you know they are on stability downtime.

If they have burned their stability (and you should be forcing them to burn it at bad times), then you want to place static fields on the highest concentration of enemy players because they will get stunned on entering and exiting the field. It also opens up dazing strikes for melees. Most really good large teams have high stability uptime (on the order of 60% to 70%), meaning that more than half the time they are fighting, they are immune to hard CCs.

Really good large scale teams know how much stability they have, and stagger it to avoid the 3 stack duration cap. They will also call their stability over voice comm and have a rotation to avoid people accidentally running into the duration cap. Its surprising how many teams I’ve played with just bomb all their stability at the start of a fight, hitting the duration cap 2 or 3 times over and then go 20+ seconds without CC immunity.

I probably should not of commented on your utilities Chip, it derailed the thread a bit. You play what works, since I have not been in 80 v 80 zergs I would not know how bad the lag is.

Perhaps on average T3 and up players are more dedicated, however i think lower tier commanders need another skill set on top of good tactics. The lower tier players on average tend to be less dedicated so it puts that much more pressure on the commanders to keep things exciting for the PvE and very casuals following them around, a few bad fights/wipes and these players leave. I do play objectives time to time and have seen what good commanders need to do with hopping map to map and point to point so the casuals keep moving along and dont leave. Heck I’m often guilty of wandering off to take a camp or chasing kills instead of sticking with the commander take a keep.

Whos to say what takes more skill leading already dedicated WvWs on TS/Vent that play for hours on end… or leading casual players.

Lets all just have a group hug

/hug

Xom.9264:

I probably should not of commented on your utilities Chip, it derailed the thread a bit. You play what works, since I have not been in 80 v 80 zergs I would not know how bad the lag is.

Perhaps on average T3 and up players are more dedicated, however i think lower tier commanders need another skill set on top of good tactics. The lower tier players on average tend to be less dedicated so it puts that much more pressure on the commanders to keep things exciting for the PvE and very casuals following them around, a few bad fights/wipes and these players leave. I do play objectives time to time and have seen what good commanders need to do with hopping map to map and point to point so the casuals keep moving along and dont leave. Heck I’m often guilty of wandering off to take a camp or chasing kills instead of sticking with the commander take a keep.

Whos to say what takes more skill leading already dedicated WvWs on TS/Vent that play for hours on end… or leading casual players.

Lets all just have a group hug

/hug

I think there are a lot of useful informations in this thread. I think now it is clear what each tier have to offer for the players.

/hug

From a tier 8 player:

http://mos.millenium.org/matchups#NA

Look at our score distribution. Now look at your tier’s score distribution. Back to ours. Now back to yours.

Sadly, it isn’t as close a match as ours. BUT, if you started fighting with everything you’ve got like we do in tier 8 instead of QQing on forums about guild transfers and timezone coverage, it could be like ours.

Walk into our Eternal Battlegrounds. SM flips every hour or so. People are able to get their map completion with the occasional keep attacks occurring every week, instead of moaning on the forums about massive imbalance. Now walk into your tier’s Eternal Battlegrounds. You just lost your keep. Now back to ours. A parade of baby quaggans is marching to every spawn point in the map while HoD guilds host a massive costume brawl party near Veloka.

Enter our borderlands. Lukian’s playing music on FC teamspeak while Saul screams like a madman about *CENSORED*ing a dolyak. Now to your server teamspeak. Someone just told you to “Shut the Kitten Up” at the slight suggestion of playing music, because WvW in high tiers is srs business, with no room for humour.

You try to launch a naked dancer roamer group near Sunnyhill, and immediately run into a massive zerg enforcing an anti-nudity law no matter what time it is. Meanwhile tier 8, the tier you wish yours could look like enjoys competitive fights and a friendly forum environment.

Anything’s possible when you’re in tier 8. You should transfer to Ferguson’s Crossing instead!

I’M ON A DOLYAK.

@Detharos.3157
You win the internets.

CHIPS.6018:

Hardcore WvWers means those that spend 80%+ of their total playtime in WvW. They spend less than 20% of their time doing PvE or sPvP.

My question is why would a hardcore WvWer stay in tier 4 or below? Wouldn’t you want to hang out with other hardcore WvWers? Wouldn’t you want to play alongside organized guilds with better tactics? Wouldn’t you want better coverage? Wouldn’t you want tougher competition?

If friendship is important, and that’s the only reason to stay, why not just transfer as a server? Instead of a guild transfer, just get all the hardcore WvWer in a server (regardless of guild) to all transfer at the same time. It is the friendship that’s important, not the server.

If money is a problem (common problem for a WvWer), you can start running dungeons and killing PvE bosses. Even playing casually you should make enough to transfer within a month at most.

If you play that much WvW, I personally see very little reason to stay in tier 4 or below. So enlighten me.

Why xfer to T4 or below? I came to SoS from FA for a few reasons, one of which is i dont want to wait an hour+ to get into wvw on reset night. More people does not mean a better server overall i wait less to get on maps, we’re still winning week after week so still get the better wvw bonuses and smaller numbers means we’re less zergy and more organised. IMO our new players are learning faster then new players in the higher servers, and we become a stronger server because of it.

Detharos.3157:

From a tier 8 player:

http://mos.millenium.org/matchups#NA

Look at our score distribution. Now look at your tier’s score distribution. Back to ours. Now back to yours.

Sadly, it isn’t as close a match as ours. BUT, if you started fighting with everything you’ve got like we do in tier 8 instead of QQing on forums about guild transfers and timezone coverage, it could be like ours.

Walk into our Eternal Battlegrounds. SM flips every hour or so. People are able to get their map completion with the occasional keep attacks occurring every week, instead of moaning on the forums about massive imbalance. Now walk into your tier’s Eternal Battlegrounds. You just lost your keep. Now back to ours. A parade of baby quaggans is marching to every spawn point in the map while HoD guilds host a massive costume brawl party near Veloka.

Enter our borderlands. Lukian’s playing music on FC teamspeak while Saul screams like a madman about *CENSORED*ing a dolyak. Now to your server teamspeak. Someone just told you to “Shut the Kitten Up” at the slight suggestion of playing music, because WvW in high tiers is srs business, with no room for humour.

You try to launch a naked dancer roamer group near Sunnyhill, and immediately run into a massive zerg enforcing an anti-nudity law no matter what time it is. Meanwhile tier 8, the tier you wish yours could look like enjoys competitive fights and a friendly forum environment.

Anything’s possible when you’re in tier 8. You should transfer to Ferguson’s Crossing instead!

I’M ON A DOLYAK.

But we do have costume parades, naked karaoke parties and music playing 24/7 on teamspeak.

Only thing I miss about lower tiers is stomping over pre arranged fights. I roam with ease in t1. So when I’ve been in lower tiers its a cake walk. People like to talk / type out play by play about the small scale fights they get into. Do they ever talk about surviving a Zerg chasing them? Surviving is just as rewarding as fighting. If its not you should really go harder in wvw. Don’t waypoint out

Playing in lower tiers is plenty fun. It’s not like the average skill on higher tiers is any better, and you can have more of and individual impact on lower tiers. It’s mostly just a non-issue though.

Also, everyone transferring to higher tier servers would ruin any upwards mobility lower tier servers could have. It’s more fun to be an underdog, and being a bandwaggoner is just lame.

If I were to transfer at all it would be to a lower tier.

Since I spend 99% of my time in WvW, am I missing something? I’ve only been playing for a few months, but it looks like there are themed activities out there somewhere. Is PvE worth it?

Hematuria.4051:

Since I spend 99% of my time in WvW, am I missing something? I’ve only been playing for a few months, but it looks like there are themed activities out there somewhere. Is PvE worth it?

I used to PvE. But I found it too hardcore for me. Last time I pve I cried and rage quitted. So now I just WvW all the time now. >_>

BenL.5312:

This thread really seems as pointless as banging on the table and forcing the guy opposite you to like the brand of beer you are drinking.

Here are a few things to consider

1)
Different tiers field different numbers and that is why fights may vary from 1v1 to 5v5 and even to 80v80

2)
Due to the different number of players fielded, each tier develops it’s own meta. Commanders and players develop different skill sets

3)
Skill does not simply equate to just being able to kill players. It involves more than that. Being able to command a 30 or 40 group as 1 entity is on a totally different level. Does that make a commander not fantastic at 1v1 a lousy player? No. His talent is just as if not more valuable i.e able to get a group to move as 1 entity.

4)
Strategies for different sized groups vary greatly and harping on I can kill 1vX number of people is meaningless. It is truly a work of art when you see an organized group kill on the field especially when they take on greater numbers.

5)
Once the group sizes become bigger, you will start to see that there is alot of thought put into team synergy, making builds work with each other, combo fields, field movement, timing of attacks, group composition, weapon and skill interactions etc. This is something that a 1v1, 2v2 or 5v5 won’t see. There is nothing wrong with that, just means that meta and playstyles differ. Experiencing such fights simply means paying ANET gems to move to a different tier.

6)
Different players like different play styles, some of you guys enjoy 1v1, 2v2, 5v5, 10v10. There are also others that like to play 30v30, 30v50 or even 80v80. That does not however mean they are any less skilled than someone playing 1v1, 2v2. It is a totally different play orientation.

7)
A 1v1, 2v2 player harping on “I can kill X who plays often in a 30v30 group = he sucks” is extremely lame and naive. Builds designed for group combat and builds designed for 1v1, 2v2 etc comabt are vastly different in focus. Tradeoffs and compromises are made resulting in weaknesses when forced into a combat scenario it is not designed for and vice versa.

Lastly, I believe we all should be able to acknowledge that different players like different playstyles and hence reside in different tiers. Constant harping on who is better or trying to one up the other is doing nobody any favours.

This thread didn’t really deserve such a well thought out post.

styx.7294:

BenL.5312:

This thread really seems as pointless as banging on the table and forcing the guy opposite you to like the brand of beer you are drinking.

Here are a few things to consider

1)
Different tiers field different numbers and that is why fights may vary from 1v1 to 5v5 and even to 80v80

2)
Due to the different number of players fielded, each tier develops it’s own meta. Commanders and players develop different skill sets

3)
Skill does not simply equate to just being able to kill players. It involves more than that. Being able to command a 30 or 40 group as 1 entity is on a totally different level. Does that make a commander not fantastic at 1v1 a lousy player? No. His talent is just as if not more valuable i.e able to get a group to move as 1 entity.

4)
Strategies for different sized groups vary greatly and harping on I can kill 1vX number of people is meaningless. It is truly a work of art when you see an organized group kill on the field especially when they take on greater numbers.

5)
Once the group sizes become bigger, you will start to see that there is alot of thought put into team synergy, making builds work with each other, combo fields, field movement, timing of attacks, group composition, weapon and skill interactions etc. This is something that a 1v1, 2v2 or 5v5 won’t see. There is nothing wrong with that, just means that meta and playstyles differ. Experiencing such fights simply means paying ANET gems to move to a different tier.

6)
Different players like different play styles, some of you guys enjoy 1v1, 2v2, 5v5, 10v10. There are also others that like to play 30v30, 30v50 or even 80v80. That does not however mean they are any less skilled than someone playing 1v1, 2v2. It is a totally different play orientation.

7)
A 1v1, 2v2 player harping on “I can kill X who plays often in a 30v30 group = he sucks” is extremely lame and naive. Builds designed for group combat and builds designed for 1v1, 2v2 etc comabt are vastly different in focus. Tradeoffs and compromises are made resulting in weaknesses when forced into a combat scenario it is not designed for and vice versa.

Lastly, I believe we all should be able to acknowledge that different players like different playstyles and hence reside in different tiers. Constant harping on who is better or trying to one up the other is doing nobody any favours.

This thread didn’t really deserve such a well thought out post.

So you are saying “accept all playstyles” but people who command and cant really win small fights, shouldnt be ridiculed because they can command 30 people to run around from tower to tower and put siege down. On the other hand Players that win small fights and beat ridiculous odds 3-8 vs. 15 shouldnt be glorified because of excuses excuses excuses? I dont understand your logic.

CHIPS.6018:

Hematuria.4051:

Since I spend 99% of my time in WvW, am I missing something? I’ve only been playing for a few months, but it looks like there are themed activities out there somewhere. Is PvE worth it?

I used to PvE. But I found it too hardcore for me. Last time I pve I cried and rage quitted. So now I just WvW all the time now. >_>

I thought pve was a mythical mob rumored to exist in eb

Jscull.2514:

On the other hand Players that win small fights and beat ridiculous odds 3-8 vs. 15 shouldnt be glorified because of excuses excuses excuses? I dont understand your logic.

3 v 15? and the lesser team won.. woohoo.. shake that kitten baby, But seriously come off it, if you won those odd then all you did was beat up some poorly or wrongly geared unskilled players. Glorified for beat up a bunch of noobs? well, that is not something that I would find brag worthy.

But to each their own, that is called respecting others peoples play style.

Ungood.3054:

Jscull.2514:

On the other hand Players that win small fights and beat ridiculous odds 3-8 vs. 15 shouldnt be glorified because of excuses excuses excuses? I dont understand your logic.

3 v 15? and the lesser team won.. woohoo.. shake that kitten baby, But seriously come off it, if you won those odd then all you did was beat up some poorly or wrongly geared unskilled players. Glorified for beat up a bunch of noobs? well, that is not something that I would find brag worthy.

But to each their own, that is called respecting others peoples play style.

Winning a fight while that outmanned requires bad play by the larger force, superior play by the smaller force and/or both. It’s usually a combination of the two.

One thing is for sure though. Your average zergrunner would never be able to win in a 3v10 situation no matter how bad the 10 are.

Jscull.2514:

styx.7294:

BenL.5312:

This thread really seems as pointless as banging on the table and forcing the guy opposite you to like the brand of beer you are drinking.

Here are a few things to consider

1)
Different tiers field different numbers and that is why fights may vary from 1v1 to 5v5 and even to 80v80

2)
Due to the different number of players fielded, each tier develops it’s own meta. Commanders and players develop different skill sets

3)
Skill does not simply equate to just being able to kill players. It involves more than that. Being able to command a 30 or 40 group as 1 entity is on a totally different level. Does that make a commander not fantastic at 1v1 a lousy player? No. His talent is just as if not more valuable i.e able to get a group to move as 1 entity.

4)
Strategies for different sized groups vary greatly and harping on I can kill 1vX number of people is meaningless. It is truly a work of art when you see an organized group kill on the field especially when they take on greater numbers.

5)
Once the group sizes become bigger, you will start to see that there is alot of thought put into team synergy, making builds work with each other, combo fields, field movement, timing of attacks, group composition, weapon and skill interactions etc. This is something that a 1v1, 2v2 or 5v5 won’t see. There is nothing wrong with that, just means that meta and playstyles differ. Experiencing such fights simply means paying ANET gems to move to a different tier.

6)
Different players like different play styles, some of you guys enjoy 1v1, 2v2, 5v5, 10v10. There are also others that like to play 30v30, 30v50 or even 80v80. That does not however mean they are any less skilled than someone playing 1v1, 2v2. It is a totally different play orientation.

7)
A 1v1, 2v2 player harping on “I can kill X who plays often in a 30v30 group = he sucks” is extremely lame and naive. Builds designed for group combat and builds designed for 1v1, 2v2 etc comabt are vastly different in focus. Tradeoffs and compromises are made resulting in weaknesses when forced into a combat scenario it is not designed for and vice versa.

Lastly, I believe we all should be able to acknowledge that different players like different playstyles and hence reside in different tiers. Constant harping on who is better or trying to one up the other is doing nobody any favours.

This thread didn’t really deserve such a well thought out post.

So you are saying “accept all playstyles” but people who command and cant really win small fights, shouldn’t be ridiculed because they can command 30 people to run around from tower to tower and put siege down. On the other hand Players that win small fights and beat ridiculous odds 3-8 vs. 15 shouldnt be glorified because of excuses excuses excuses? I dont understand your logic.

No, you got it. You have all the important points. The logic starts with the premise people shouldn’t be ridiculed and it ends there.

Edit: Also, I can’t believe you just said that we should glorify you. Who does that in a non-ironic way?

Oozo.7856:

Winning a fight while that outmanned requires bad play by the larger force, superior play by the smaller force and/or both. It’s usually a combination of the two.

One thing is for sure though. Your average zergrunner would never be able to win in a 3v10 situation no matter how bad the 10 are.

True this.

Jscull.2514:

CHIPS.6018:

Jscull.2514:

What’s great about all you 10+ runners all say the same things about “havoc groups” in higher tiers, that their use is “cutting supplies, killing dolyaks, cutting off back lines”…. How come none of you understand when our 5 guys leave the spawn 100% of our goal is to only kill red? It’s so hard for you Zergers to realize points D O N O T MA T T E R and we simply play to kill people? And when a group of 8-20 dies to 5 guys is a joke and shouldn’t happen but happens everyday?

And then you come on the forums and tell us how awesome your 20 man guild groups are when the truth is if you ran less you’d fall into the “joke category” otherwise you would run less….

Now I am confused. If your server’s scores doesn’t matter to you at all, where is the source of your server loyalty? Where is your source of server pride? Why stay? Is lag the only reason then? So if one day Anet changes to new servers and removes all lags, you are gone?

Yes! Prime example exhibit A. CHIPs thanks for proving my points. YOU don’t understand we play this for rvr, player vs player. Real 5 mans (dedicated focus firing guilds) don’t play this for their server or the pointless pointless “Anet point system”….

Look at my signature. Clearly we give two kittens about the server were on. It’s who is our opponents that’s the real concern because they are the ones bringing/or not bringing the Quality of fighting to the table. I never wrote one thing about lag hoss. Thanks for being part of the 95% of gw2 population which has never experienced elitest hardcore fighting and then writing in a thread about hardcore wvwers lol.

This sounds like sPvP to me.

Ruprect.7260:

Jscull.2514:

CHIPS.6018:

Jscull.2514:

What’s great about all you 10+ runners all say the same things about “havoc groups” in higher tiers, that their use is “cutting supplies, killing dolyaks, cutting off back lines”…. How come none of you understand when our 5 guys leave the spawn 100% of our goal is to only kill red? It’s so hard for you Zergers to realize points D O N O T MA T T E R and we simply play to kill people? And when a group of 8-20 dies to 5 guys is a joke and shouldn’t happen but happens everyday?

And then you come on the forums and tell us how awesome your 20 man guild groups are when the truth is if you ran less you’d fall into the “joke category” otherwise you would run less….

Now I am confused. If your server’s scores doesn’t matter to you at all, where is the source of your server loyalty? Where is your source of server pride? Why stay? Is lag the only reason then? So if one day Anet changes to new servers and removes all lags, you are gone?

Yes! Prime example exhibit A. CHIPs thanks for proving my points. YOU don’t understand we play this for rvr, player vs player. Real 5 mans (dedicated focus firing guilds) don’t play this for their server or the pointless pointless “Anet point system”….

Look at my signature. Clearly we give two kittens about the server were on. It’s who is our opponents that’s the real concern because they are the ones bringing/or not bringing the Quality of fighting to the table. I never wrote one thing about lag hoss. Thanks for being part of the 95% of gw2 population which has never experienced elitest hardcore fighting and then writing in a thread about hardcore wvwers lol.

This sounds like sPvP to me.

Clearly you don’t have any open world hardcore pvp background as war fronts/spvp instances don’t come close to the world of open roaming competitive teams. Nor does 5v5 s actually happen in spvp. It’s all 1v2s and 1v1s of bunker builds knocking each other around. It’s ok though, keep playing your “general Patton” game and when unchained comes out all the skilled players will leave this care bear centered Wvw land lol. Youll all be left with each other, the zerging mindless community.

Jscull.2514:

Ruprect.7260:

Jscull.2514:

CHIPS.6018:

Jscull.2514:

What’s great about all you 10+ runners all say the same things about “havoc groups” in higher tiers, that their use is “cutting supplies, killing dolyaks, cutting off back lines”…. How come none of you understand when our 5 guys leave the spawn 100% of our goal is to only kill red? It’s so hard for you Zergers to realize points D O N O T MA T T E R and we simply play to kill people? And when a group of 8-20 dies to 5 guys is a joke and shouldn’t happen but happens everyday?

And then you come on the forums and tell us how awesome your 20 man guild groups are when the truth is if you ran less you’d fall into the “joke category” otherwise you would run less….

Now I am confused. If your server’s scores doesn’t matter to you at all, where is the source of your server loyalty? Where is your source of server pride? Why stay? Is lag the only reason then? So if one day Anet changes to new servers and removes all lags, you are gone?

Yes! Prime example exhibit A. CHIPs thanks for proving my points. YOU don’t understand we play this for rvr, player vs player. Real 5 mans (dedicated focus firing guilds) don’t play this for their server or the pointless pointless “Anet point system”….

Look at my signature. Clearly we give two kittens about the server were on. It’s who is our opponents that’s the real concern because they are the ones bringing/or not bringing the Quality of fighting to the table. I never wrote one thing about lag hoss. Thanks for being part of the 95% of gw2 population which has never experienced elitest hardcore fighting and then writing in a thread about hardcore wvwers lol.

This sounds like sPvP to me.

Clearly you don’t have any open world hardcore pvp background as war fronts/spvp instances don’t come close to the world of open roaming competitive teams. Nor does 5v5 s actually happen in spvp. It’s all 1v2s and 1v1s of bunker builds knocking each other around. It’s ok though, keep playing your “general Patton” game and when unchained comes out all the skilled players will leave this care bear centered Wvw land lol. Youll all be left with each other, the zerging mindless community.

I am starting to think Jscull = Francis.

frostshade.3617:

CHIPS.6018:

Hematuria.4051:

Since I spend 99% of my time in WvW, am I missing something? I’ve only been playing for a few months, but it looks like there are themed activities out there somewhere. Is PvE worth it?

I used to PvE. But I found it too hardcore for me. Last time I pve I cried and rage quitted. So now I just WvW all the time now. >_>

I thought pve was a mythical mob rumored to exist in eb

Trust me PvE is very real. And if you don’t obey your parents the PvE will come get you in your sleep.

Oozo.7856:

Ungood.3054:

Jscull.2514:

On the other hand Players that win small fights and beat ridiculous odds 3-8 vs. 15 shouldnt be glorified because of excuses excuses excuses? I dont understand your logic.

3 v 15? and the lesser team won.. woohoo.. shake that kitten baby, But seriously come off it, if you won those odd then all you did was beat up some poorly or wrongly geared unskilled players. Glorified for beat up a bunch of noobs? well, that is not something that I would find brag worthy.

But to each their own, that is called respecting others peoples play style.

Winning a fight while that outmanned requires bad play by the larger force, superior play by the smaller force and/or both. It’s usually a combination of the two.

One thing is for sure though. Your average zergrunner would never be able to win in a 3v10 situation no matter how bad the 10 are.

I got to agree with this. If your 3 guys beats 15 enemies, those 15 players by definition sucks bad.

I’m in T8 and I love the WvW here. Why would I want to change then?

Detharos.3157:

From a tier 8 player:

http://mos.millenium.org/matchups#NA

Look at our score distribution. Now look at your tier’s score distribution. Back to ours. Now back to yours.

Sadly, it isn’t as close a match as ours. BUT, if you started fighting with everything you’ve got like we do in tier 8 instead of QQing on forums about guild transfers and timezone coverage, it could be like ours.

Walk into our Eternal Battlegrounds. SM flips every hour or so. People are able to get their map completion with the occasional keep attacks occurring every week, instead of moaning on the forums about massive imbalance. Now walk into your tier’s Eternal Battlegrounds. You just lost your keep. Now back to ours. A parade of baby quaggans is marching to every spawn point in the map while HoD guilds host a massive costume brawl party near Veloka.

Enter our borderlands. Lukian’s playing music on FC teamspeak while Saul screams like a madman about *CENSORED*ing a dolyak. Now to your server teamspeak. Someone just told you to “Shut the Kitten Up” at the slight suggestion of playing music, because WvW in high tiers is srs business, with no room for humour.

You try to launch a naked dancer roamer group near Sunnyhill, and immediately run into a massive zerg enforcing an anti-nudity law no matter what time it is. Meanwhile tier 8, the tier you wish yours could look like enjoys competitive fights and a friendly forum environment.

Anything’s possible when you’re in tier 8. You should transfer to Ferguson’s Crossing instead!

I’M ON A DOLYAK.

While I enjoy much of my time on HoD everyone has a different idea of fun. Everyone doesn’t have lots of time to waste of pointless things. They may find these “parades” or costume brawls annoying. I know I would if I could only play for a little bit on certain days and that’s all they were doing. Voice chats have a reason for their rules and guide lines. I think a lot of people would find someone playing music in voice chat very annoying, irritating, and ruin their fun their trying to have. People in VoiP have every right to tell you to shut up or shut music off if they don’t want to hear it. If you all want to act that way in a channel with only the few people who want to hear it go for it.

Both higher and lower tiers do stuff like this. Don’t try to say only one does it. I’ve seen higher tiers act too serious and lower tiers act too serious. I’ve also seen both act like children. I’ve seen both try to have fun in different ways. Much of the time it’s at the expense of others.

There is nothing wrong with fun, but when it takes away from others experience is when it is bad. You are doing something far worse than being to serious.

However, any idea that any tier simply has better players because of the tier that they are in is a joke. This could arguably be the case for maybe 1/3 of the servers at best. They may have a higher percentage of good players on their server. I’ve seen solo players make every single player in a large wvw guild look like a joke. I’ve seen players in tier 8 make most tier 1-3 players look pathetic. Do higher tier servers have more wvw players and more good ones? Yes, but this is only because higher tier servers crap out players onto the wvw maps. Your bound to have more good players as well as more horrible players.