Guild Wars 2

WHAT?! No – don’t even think of Nuke It Every Three Months. If you want this sort of experience join a linked server because unfortunately that’s pretty much what we face now.

The whole point of the Nuke it option is to remove the existing preconceptions about each server so everything starts fair and with zero score. This is probably the most acceptable option amongst the players who want some form of change.

The only alternative is a complete change in the way we see and use the server system such as I proposed earlier; which is a step too far for some players even though it would allow them to retain their server and guild identity and crucially doesn’t change the game mechanics (that’s a separate issue to be resolved).

Well, it would be more ‘guild wars’ if they shuffled people around the servers on a regular basis but kept guilds together.

Something ought to change in any case. Whether through skill or numbers or coverage or leadership, the top servers continue to be the top servers and it gets stale after a while.

I swear some of you never think things through…

“Blowing it up” and starting over with the same individual server models leads you right back to what we have now… except that you annoy most of the player base in the process. And if you do the above, then it’s even more incentive for players to bail to CU (and their 3 faction model with a dynamic world to play on and classes designed just for pvp).

You either come up with a better model or you don’t waste time, resources and create headaches… Think more about steps 2-10, not just an ambiguous 1 step.

Swagger.1459:

I swear some of you never think things through…

…

You either come up with a better model or you don’t waste time, resources and create headaches… Think more about steps 2-10, not just an ambiguous 1 step.

The first step to steps 2-10 IS step 1. Can’t 2-10 without it. This post was to ask the Community whether or not they are NOW fed up enough to consider the remaking of the worlds, and to see just how many people would continue to defend the ways things are.

As we read the responses, there isn’t a lot of defense of the sorry state that population balance is in, or of the current methods being employed to ‘balance’ the ‘competition’.

What has also surfaced appears to be agreement that once Step 1 – The Nuclear Option is executed on, we would NOT, in any way, re-impose the current structures or systems on our brave, new worlds.

A new thread needs to be started to suggest/discuss what Steps 2-10 are.

Talking about one change without defining ALL the changes is not wasted effort, or unthoughtful, if it is the precursor to all the other changes.

Let’s build on the sense that there are lot of us that agree the Nuclear Option is needed.
Let’s build on the sense that there are a lot of us that don’t want the same old, same old system to be re-applied after the Nuclear Option.

Now, let’s talk about what is step 2, in a new thread for that purpose.

Cause I don’t see a lot of resistance to the idea that the time has surely come for some brave, new worlds.

Pensadora.9478:

Swagger.1459:

I swear some of you never think things through…

…

You either come up with a better model or you don’t waste time, resources and create headaches… Think more about steps 2-10, not just an ambiguous 1 step.

The first step to steps 2-10 IS step 1. Can’t 2-10 without it. This post was to ask the Community whether or not they are NOW fed up enough to consider the remaking of the worlds, and to see just how many people would continue to defend the ways things are.

As we read the responses, there isn’t a lot of defense of the sorry state that population balance is in, or of the current methods being employed to ‘balance’ the ‘competition’.

What has also surfaced appears to be agreement that once Step 1 – The Nuclear Option is executed on, we would NOT, in any way, re-impose the current structures or systems on our brave, new worlds.

A new thread needs to be started to suggest/discuss what Steps 2-10 are.

Talking about one change without defining ALL the changes is not wasted effort, or unthoughtful, if it is the precursor to all the other changes.

Let’s build on the sense that there are lot of us that agree the Nuclear Option is needed.
Let’s build on the sense that there are a lot of us that don’t want the same old, same old system to be re-applied after the Nuclear Option.

Now, let’s talk about what is step 2, in a new thread for that purpose.

Cause I don’t see a lot of resistance to the idea that the time has surely come for some brave, new worlds.

It surely helps the devs and readers to see that you actually thought about the process more than to just “blow it up”. Had you spent time thinking about this, you would actually see that it takes us the exact same place as we are now, not any different direction. That’s not something healthy for the game or the players, particularly when we have the spiritual successor to a game that wvw was inspired by that’s coming around the corner.

No, you are assuming that “a lot of us want a nuclear option” that follows your vague vision of “blowing it all up”. Also, the responses in this thread are not indicative of anything we can speculate on for the current designs and systems.

Can you even articulate what “blowing it all up” means? Is this some middle of the night server renaming by the devs, and whomever logs in first gets to select a server? How does this affect established guilds when players can’t select a server because they were beat to the punch and it’s closed? How do these great new worlds fair any different than what we have going on at this exact moment with linkings and server closings and reopenings? How does using the exact same individual server model make each and every great new world magically balanced?

Sorry Pens. You have determined that the consensus is with you. It isn’t.

There have been a handful of people in here that agree with you. Two of them from your own server.

People that disagree have left the thread for dead. And it travelled quite a bit down the list before it was bumped up again by a server mate of yours.

Why did MaS drop to HoD? Why did you leave BG? Why wasn’t this posted four months ago by you before you moved?

Why is it since HoD was locked that suddenly you want to blow it up?

Context.

Before you start saying there is ‘not a lot of resistance to blowing it up’ realize there hasn’t been much new traffic tou your post besides those of your server, two to three others that agree, and the bulk of the rest say hell no.

Swagger.1459:

It surely helps the devs and readers to see that you actually thought about the process more than to just “blow it up”. Had you spent time thinking about this, you would actually see that it takes us the exact same place as we are now, not any different direction. That’s not something healthy for the game or the players, particularly when we have the spiritual successor to a game that wvw was inspired by that’s coming around the corner.

I’m pretty sure the Devs understand well this creative step to envisioning a new process. Pretty sure they work this way often, if not always. In designing a new fractal they get to start with a fresh page, a clean slate and then envision what should be placed there.

The nuclear option is the precursor that is required to begin a similar ‘fresh page approach’ to overcoming the current challenges relating to population imbalance in the current WvW. It is required for the reason that we have consistently failed to find that balance, while also communicating to the WvW Team that they aren’t permitted to start with a fresh, new, blank page – because we have asked them to ‘fit it into’ the existing structure. The ’don’t touch my server’ restriction.

This is the creating stage. It’s sometimes a bit messy, and definitely uncomfortable for those needing the specs before vision. On my part, I prefer to have the vision of what could be, and then work to the specification.

We’re discussing together what we want to see, so it’s a little messy, a little vague for those who like the analytical critiquing of others’ ideas. There will be time for that. It is a necessity.

It will be ok. No one is going to ‘blow it all up’ without some plan for the next steps, least of all ANet.

Relax and join in the creating process. Or opt out. But, please don’t throw rocks.

If you’d like to critique anything, critique this:

The first proper step in beginning to envision a brave, new WvW is to free up the process from the baggage of having to fit it into the existing server structures and current way of going about ‘balancing’ server populations.

As I’ve stated before, I no longer believe tying the hands of ANet Devs to fit in ‘improvements’ to the existing structure of servers and existing server populations is the way to go. We need a clean slate. We need to free them up.

We need to blow it up – CONCEPTUALLY – so they have the freedom to envision a better way with us.

Then, and only then do we start discussing what is Step 2: HOW would we have it work, if we weren’t weighed down by trying to fit it into the existing ‘way we do things’.

WHAT would WvW look like if we were to start fresh, keeping what we know and what we’ve learned?

Strider Pj.2193:

Sorry Pens. You have determined that the consensus is with you. It isn’t.

If I am wrong to assume the consensus, then it appears you may have the same weakness in your conclusion to the opposite.

My purpose was to start the discussion. The few that have opposed the concept, have done so presuming on a solution that hasn’t been put forth.

There have been a handful of people in here that agree with you. Two of them from your own server.

People that disagree have left the thread for dead. And it travelled quite a bit down the list before it was bumped up again by a server mate of yours.

There seems to be an implication that there is some level of collusion happening here, that is just that – an assumption. I’d hope that if I actually posted a thread attacking Blackgate, my old server home, more than one Blackgate member would be permitted to post in that thread in its defense without it being used to undermine their posts. So, not sure of the relevance of this critique, other than it may prove that HOD has two people currently interested in this topic. I will grant you that much, and only that much.

Why did MaS drop to HoD? Why did you leave BG? Why wasn’t this posted four months ago by you before you moved?

Why is it since HoD was locked that suddenly you want to blow it up?

Happy to start another thread to give you all the good reasons MAS moved off Blackgate. And ‘hey’ to all my Blackgate friends that are still there!

Otherwise, this is not the place for that conversation.

As to why now… look at HOD.. locked down. Look at Blackgate… opened for 3 guilds to move on, bulging with population, blowing out their matchups. The server name doesn’t matter. It could have been Server X, Server Y or Server Z. That is not the issue for me.

But, what became apparent is that something is wrong in the universe when the approach to balancing populations is what has been tried. And, when the populations aren’t kept in check and matchups aren’t competitive, it’s time to rethink what we’re doing.

It’s just that simple. Time to think about a new direction. About brave, new worlds and a brave, new WvW.

Swagger.1459:

…
if you do the above, then it’s even more incentive for players to bail to CU (and their 3 faction model with a dynamic world to play on and classes designed just for pvp).

And, so you’re saying here that there may be some other model we could look to to get ideas? And, it appears you are saying that this is something current WvW players might be interested in?

And, yet you are advocating… what, exactly? Stay the course?

Pens, you brought up collision. I did not. Merely pointed out that the few, and it is by definition a few (per Webster a 3-15) people that seem to want a change, not necessarily your change.

You stated consensus. Consensus by definition is agreement by the majority. There is not consensus in ‘blowing it all up’. That you do not verbally recognize that is a credit to your attempt to sway the deva to take your position.

I am merely pointing out to you that you do not have consensus. And that the majority of people here in this thread disagree with you.

Not that you need to hear it, but I applaud your attempt to change something that you disagree with, yet, it is interesting that you didn’t disagree with this same system prior to moving off Blackgate. Which is why it is relevant to this thread.

Strider Pj.2193:

… yet, it is interesting that you didn’t disagree with this same system prior to moving off Blackgate. Which is why it is relevant to this thread.

It is no more relevant, frankly, than referring to results of polls from 8-12 months ago and calling that “WvW opinion”. It’s been 6 months since leaving Blackgate.

And during those 6 months we’ve gained the perspective of how things are in T4 to add to our perspective of “the protected world seen from T1”, so not so insulated any longer, from what the rest of the world is experiencing.

And, for your information, the continual lockdown of Blackgate server, the bulging, blobby fights and populations of T1, and the easy mode win there were, in fact, a part of our reasons for moving off.

We thought… heck.. be the change you want to see. If T1 needs to destack… let’s do it and go some place where the server was OPEN and where they needed us.

There, answered. Now, can we get back to the discussion at hand?

That WAS part of the discussion at hand. You made a *choice* on changing servers. Now, because the server you are on is considered full, (whether coincidentally or not) you and a few others are advocating taking that choice away from others and forcing them to change.

Strider Pj.2193:

That WAS part of the discussion at hand. You made a choice on changing servers. Now, because the server you are on is considered full, (whether coincidentally or not) you and a few others are advocating taking that choice away from others and forcing them to change.

Ummm. nooooo. I haven’t taken anything away. And… yep… just like the move down tiers was in reponse to months of Blackgate getting locked down to ‘balance population’, now, 6 months later, the approach is to lock down ALL the host servers in the same attempt… and after… allowing BG to blob up once again. So, … more informed, different world, new circumstances, still ongoing issues not solved.

And each time someone reacts with “you are touching MY server”, they add validity to my point:

That the only way to have a free, unemotional discussion around how to actually balance the population of WvW such that it brings a consistent, competitive environment which is fair and balanced for all, is to eliminate the baggage of the existing worlds.

Pensadora.9478:

Strider Pj.2193:

That WAS part of the discussion at hand. You made a choice on changing servers. Now, because the server you are on is considered full, (whether coincidentally or not) you and a few others are advocating taking that choice away from others and forcing them to change.

Ummm. nooooo. I haven’t taken anything away.

No. You haven’t taken anything away. If you read my post, I didn’t say you took anything away.

What I did say is you, and a few others are advocating for a change that does remove the choice that you made.

You feel your idea is for the best. That blowing up servers and placing guilds at risk of being split up involuntarily is for the best.

No where have you advocated, indicated nor stated that whole guilds could remain together. Some guilds have inactive people that pop back on in three to four weeks. Your model potentially screws them.

That is not acceptable to me. Nor the majority of the posters in this thread.

Despite your claim of consensus.

Strider Pj.2193:

Your model potentially screws them.

That is not acceptable to me. Nor the majority of the posters in this thread.

Despite your claim of consensus.

MY model? All I’ve proposed is a fresh start.

I’m merely saying we have to start to model, and we have to start to model without carrying around a ton of baggage that dooms the discussion at the start.

If in YOUR model, there is a consideration for how guilds stay together, then put it there. I agree that it is important.

Pensadora.9478:

Strider Pj.2193:

So, you are willing to have your guild split between 12 servers?

Nothing about creating new worlds presumes that guilds or players will have to be split up.

The reality, outside of T1, which is flush with population – especially Blackgate – is that if you are going to continue to acquire needed WvW players, or needed guild members for your WvW-centric guild, you CAN NOT do that on a locked server. And, the reason for the locked servers is to ‘balance populations’, supposedly. Yet, prior to locking the servers down, Blackgate – the most populous server currently – was OPENED for more population to bandwagon on and then….. the lower tier servers were also locked down.

The whole T1 experience is a different world from what exists in other tiers. Frankly, it’s like living in a gated community – all isolated from the struggles and difficulties of the rest of the universe and happy not to have to deal with them.

I no longer have those blinders on. I no longer see the world from the rose-colored glasses of T1, so yep… guilty as charged – I now see the world with a different perspective. I now understand just how ridiculous it is to continue to go on, and on, and on in the current state of population imbalance, at the same time as locking down all the lower tier servers that actually need more WvW population.

And, if this is the best that we can do – because we can’t touch existing server structures or home worlds – some of which are bloated and others which are devastated – – then…

Yes! I continue to advocate for a fresh slate. A fresh start with some re-envisioning of how we make and keep things balanced.

Yes. Your model of blowing it up.

Starting from scratch if you will.

You can’t tell me guilds will be together can you?

You haven’t answered that.

Period. You have AVOIDED it. Plain and simple. You have stated they can move together if they are organized. If they are too slow, likely they are split.

Again: you chose to move. Let others have your choice.

Your option to blow it up, removes that choice. No.

Strider Pj.2193:

You can’t tell me guilds will be together can you?

You haven’t answered that.

Period. You have AVOIDED it. Plain and simple. You have stated they can move together if they are organized. If they are too slow, likely they are split.

Again: you chose to move. Let others have your choice.

Your option to blow it up, removes that choice. No.

You might have missed this one in all the discussion above:

SkyShroud.2865:

By blowing all up, you don’t have to force them on any servers. You are just simply forcing them to choose a new server. They can still liaise with each others on the new servers to join. The guilds can do that. The pugs not in any wvw guild can choose random servers. It will balance out if put in the proper systems.

There, does that help? New systems… proper systems, which offer a choice of a new world.

A brave, new world.

A new and improved, balanced, competitive world – and ….

MORE than just ONE.

MANY new worlds ….

for ALL of us to enjoy,

not just the few in the gated community of T1.

Pensadora.9478:

Strider Pj.2193:

You can’t tell me guilds will be together can you?

You haven’t answered that.

Period. You have AVOIDED it. Plain and simple. You have stated they can move together if they are organized. If they are too slow, likely they are split.

Again: you chose to move. Let others have your choice.

Your option to blow it up, removes that choice. No.

You might have missed this one in all the discussion above:

SkyShroud.2865:

By blowing all up, you don’t have to force them on any servers. You are just simply forcing them to choose a new server. They can still liaise with each others on the new servers to join. The guilds can do that. The pugs not in any wvw guild can choose random servers. It will balance out if put in the proper systems.

There, does that help? New systems… proper systems, which offer a choice of a new world.

A brave, new world.

A new and improved, balanced, competitive world – and ….

MORE than just ONE.

MANY new worlds ….

for ALL of us to enjoy,

not just the few in the gated community of T1.

Of course, they get to choose a new world. But if the world their guild is going to happens to be full, they can’t pick it.

So, yes, you will be breaking up communities. Both guilds and servers.

Using semantics of ‘choosing’ new worlds is just diplomatic speak for forcing them into a new world, and having a realistic chance of having guilds and communities split up against their will,

Again, you had a choice. I don’t agree with forcing that choice on others.

I think I suggested a perfectly reasonable solution for guilds… no?

Each player gets to pick 1 guild – the currently active guild on the last character a player logged in with before the rebalance

Players that insist on staying together in wvw could form guilds and invite their friends (up to the maximum guild size).

Now keep guilds together when rebalancing servers

coro.3176:

I think I suggested a perfectly reasonable solution for guilds… no?

Each player gets to pick 1 guild – the currently active guild on the last character a player logged in with before the rebalance

Players that insist on staying together in wvw could form guilds and invite their friends (up to the maximum guild size).

Now keep guilds together when rebalancing servers

That leaves a lot of room for players to make mistakes. This equals to lot of unhappy players and lot of work for the support.

1. “I set represent on a wrong character”
2. “I set to represent wrong guild”
3. “I was on vacation and didn’t have time to set my guild”
4. “I forgot change guild represent”
5. “No-one told me there was going to be reshuffle”
6. “Our community is larger than guild size limit”
7. “My guild leader kicked me out just prior reshuffling”
8. “There wasn’t enough time to set up a community guild for the reshuffle”
9. “Setting up a community guild is too much work”
10. “I wanted to join community guild but I’m already at guild limit”

A big part of the problem is that linking split WvW servers into two different classes.

Host servers get all the credit: they gain score and their name is used when discussing matches.

In contrast linked servers have no stability, gain no score and are rarely mentioned.

It is this discrimination that we need to change somehow, whether by deleting all servers and starting equal again, or through some other approach.

Is it not significant that whenever deleting servers is suggested players emphatically say no? This is server pride, and for better or worse it still exists and needs to be considered in any suggested solution for WvW.

Pensadora.9478:

not just the few in the gated community of T1.

Please don’t spread T1 to every other tier. I joined a link server to get away from that.

Pensadora.9478:

Swagger.1459:

It surely helps the devs and readers to see that you actually thought about the process more than to just “blow it up”. Had you spent time thinking about this, you would actually see that it takes us the exact same place as we are now, not any different direction. That’s not something healthy for the game or the players, particularly when we have the spiritual successor to a game that wvw was inspired by that’s coming around the corner.

I’m pretty sure the Devs understand well this creative step to envisioning a new process. Pretty sure they work this way often, if not always. In designing a new fractal they get to start with a fresh page, a clean slate and then envision what should be placed there.

The nuclear option is the precursor that is required to begin a similar ‘fresh page approach’ to overcoming the current challenges relating to population imbalance in the current WvW. It is required for the reason that we have consistently failed to find that balance, while also communicating to the WvW Team that they aren’t permitted to start with a fresh, new, blank page – because we have asked them to ‘fit it into’ the existing structure. The ’don’t touch my server’ restriction.

This is the creating stage. It’s sometimes a bit messy, and definitely uncomfortable for those needing the specs before vision. On my part, I prefer to have the vision of what could be, and then work to the specification.

We’re discussing together what we want to see, so it’s a little messy, a little vague for those who like the analytical critiquing of others’ ideas. There will be time for that. It is a necessity.

It will be ok. No one is going to ‘blow it all up’ without some plan for the next steps, least of all ANet.

Relax and join in the creating process. Or opt out. But, please don’t throw rocks.

If you’d like to critique anything, critique this:

The first proper step in beginning to envision a brave, new WvW is to free up the process from the baggage of having to fit it into the existing server structures and current way of going about ‘balancing’ server populations.

As I’ve stated before, I no longer believe tying the hands of ANet Devs to fit in ‘improvements’ to the existing structure of servers and existing server populations is the way to go. We need a clean slate. We need to free them up.

We need to blow it up – CONCEPTUALLY – so they have the freedom to envision a better way with us.

Then, and only then do we start discussing what is Step 2: HOW would we have it work, if we weren’t weighed down by trying to fit it into the existing ‘way we do things’.

WHAT would WvW look like if we were to start fresh, keeping what we know and what we’ve learned?

You partial quote and don’t answer any of the hard questions. It helps to answer the tough and relevant questions if you want to make a case for change.

Yeah, your vague “blow it all up” comments are easily imagined, and it leads us to the exact same place we are at now, just with a lot of unnecessary turmoil in the process and waste of development time. You may think that “blow it all up” leads to some magic place where every server is perfectly balanced, all guilds are fine, wvw on every server is competitive and the system is trouble free… but it’s not. Not rational to think that doing the same thing will yield different results.

You make all these “well wishing” statements and witty one liners, but you don’t have any concrete or well thought out answers. You can type the “make brave new worlds and the system ends up super and perfect” mantra until your fingers hurt, but it doesn’t change the fact that doing so takes us to the same spot we are at today.

No, you lay out all steps for the community to discuss and the devs to read. Your thread is basically like saying “we need to end world hunger, so who wants wants to end world hunger?”, but don’t even bother to look at the critical steps to accomplish that… You obviously didn’t bother to think any of this through, and that’s very clear to readers. This thread won’t garner any support for your “blow it all up” desire because you didn’t provide a better design idea than what we have happening now. This thread goes nowhere without you clearly presenting steps to make a better wvw that we can discuss, and you being vague certainly won’t sway the devs to change anything.

Swagger.1459:

Yeah, your vague “blow it all up” comments are easily imagined, and it leads us to the exact same place we are at now, just with a lot of unnecessary turmoil in the process and waste of development time.

You make all these “well wishing” statements and witty one liners, but you don’t have any concrete or well thought out answers. You can type the “make brave new worlds and the system ends up super and perfect” mantra until your fingers hurt, but it doesn’t change the fact that doing so takes us to the same spot we are at today.

It’s a mystery to me that on one hand I haven’t provided enough detail, but on the other hand, you have so much detail that you can ‘easily imagine’ the outcome.

Your thread is basically like saying “we need to end world hunger, so who wants wants to end world hunger?”, but don’t even bother to look at the critical steps to accomplish that…

Yep, those catalyst ideas. Hunger is bad. We should care about people going hungry. Now let’s, as a world community, get to work on solving that. Same process for WvW. Let’s work together to make it work. No ONE person HAS to come up with all the ideas.

My proposition starts from the premise that the overstacked and under-populated servers, are a core stumbling block to ever getting balanced in WvW.

I have started with a premise that clinging to the Overfed as well as the Malnurished servers, while allowing WvW to continue to decay – the “Let’s maintain the status quo for MY server” – is a contributing issue for never being able to solve this problem. (and thank you for the ‘world hunger’ analogy, btw.)

IF… you would like to argue that those things are not at all, in any way, a part of the roadblock to discussing other ways to solve the population imbalances that keeps this game mode non-competitive and incredibly unbalanced… please do.

That is all this thread was about – to open the discussion for how a new way of doing WvW population balancing could actually be discussed because we’ve left behind the ‘make it work without touching MY server’ issue.

It appears that what you are calling me out for is seeing a problem, seeing the roadblocks for the problem, and calling for those roadblocks to be removed so that we can get on to solving the problem.

I am proposing a massive, roadblock removal – the creation of entire brave & new worlds – to clear a way for all the other bright and creative people with next-step solutions to travel on.

And…. that IS happening in this thread. (<— click there for link)

It seems that now that the door is open, you may want to walk through it and see what discussion is taking place – of detailed ideas and proposals for ways to build a brave, new WvW for the benefit and enjoyment of ALL.

They aren’t MY ideas, I am not the only person thinking about WvW here. And, I’m inviting everyone to come to the table to discuss it.

I just propose starting with a blank page, to free up the solutions. That is all.

This thread goes nowhere without you clearly presenting steps to make a better wvw that we can discuss

I don’t know, it seems it got the discussion started and …. you keep bumping it. So there’s that!

Pensadora.9478:

Swagger.1459:

Yeah, your vague “blow it all up” comments are easily imagined, and it leads us to the exact same place we are at now, just with a lot of unnecessary turmoil in the process and waste of development time.

You make all these “well wishing” statements and witty one liners, but you don’t have any concrete or well thought out answers. You can type the “make brave new worlds and the system ends up super and perfect” mantra until your fingers hurt, but it doesn’t change the fact that doing so takes us to the same spot we are at today.

It’s a mystery to me that on one hand I haven’t provided enough detail, but on the other hand, you have so much detail that you can ‘easily imagine’ the outcome.

Your thread is basically like saying “we need to end world hunger, so who wants wants to end world hunger?”, but don’t even bother to look at the critical steps to accomplish that…

Yep, those catalyst ideas. Hunger is bad. We should care about people going hungry. Now let’s, as a world community, get to work on solving that. Same process for WvW. Let’s work together to make it work. No ONE person HAS to come up with all the ideas.

My proposition starts from the premise that the overstacked and under-populated servers, are a core stumbling block to ever getting balanced in WvW.

I have started with a premise that clinging to the Overfed as well as the Malnurished servers, while allowing WvW to continue to decay – the “Let’s maintain the status quo for MY server” – is a contributing issue for never being able to solve this problem. (and thank you for the ‘world hunger’ analogy, btw.)

IF… you would like to argue that those things are not at all, in any way, a part of the roadblock to discussing other ways to solve the population imbalances that keeps this game mode non-competitive and incredibly unbalanced… please do.

That is all this thread was about – to open the discussion for how a new way of doing WvW population balancing could actually be discussed because we’ve left behind the ‘make it work without touching MY server’ issue.

It appears that what you are calling me out for is seeing a problem, seeing the roadblocks for the problem, and calling for those roadblocks to be removed so that we can get on to solving the problem.

I am proposing a massive, roadblock removal – the creation of entire brave & new worlds – to clear a way for all the other bright and creative people with next-step solutions to travel on.

And…. that IS happening in this thread. (<— click there for link)

It seems that now that the door is open, you may want to walk through it and see what discussion is taking place – of detailed ideas and proposals for ways to build a brave, new WvW for the benefit and enjoyment of ALL.

They aren’t MY ideas, I am not the only person thinking about WvW here. And, I’m inviting everyone to come to the table to discuss it.

I just propose starting with a blank page, to free up the solutions. That is all.

This thread goes nowhere without you clearly presenting steps to make a better wvw that we can discuss

I don’t know, it seems it got the discussion started and …. you keep bumping it. So there’s that!

There again with the selective quoting… try reading and absorbing.

The individual server model produces the current results, so your proposal creates another individual server model… that happens to displace everyone right? This “blow it all up” model you assume will magically make each sever balanced? This “blow it all up model” de stacks larger servers and happily spreads out players evenly? What happens to guilds when members don’t log in to select a server their mates chose and now is closed? You think creating all new servers eliminates stacking, the need for linking, server closings… and makes sure that all players are playing equally so that each server is equally competitive? …you can’t answer any of those because you didn’t even bother to think about them.

You’ve proposed nothing except to “blow it all up” and zero explanation how it all works and how we end up in a better place.

You quoting some other thread does nothing for this thread, and your lack of input aside from a vague “blow it all up” doesn’t help your cause either.

Garnering support is vastly different than replies that challenge what you brought up… You haven’t made any clear and convincing arguments for the system to change. You haven’t thought deeply about this subject. You keep ignoring rational comments. Your counter arguments aren’t strong and you keep repeating those one line comments that carry zero substance behind them.

It’s pretty obvious you don’t want to have a discussion, you just want to have your thread bumped. Perhaps next thread you’ll actually think about the topic you are proposing so we can have a logical discussion.