Guild Wars 2

Over the past couple of weeks I’ve been getting more and more in to WvW and have been enjoying myself for the most part, but one thing that I keep seeing pop up every so often is the active hate against players who join as ranger or thief and more then a few want to kick them out of the main group just for playing one of the classes.

I honestly don’t understand why, I mean does it really matter what class someone plays as long as they follow what the commander says and stick to the objectives?

What exactly are the “issues”?

Two words: Group Comp

It’s not mandatory to be in a squad, if you get kicked you can still follow it with max profits.

Zeeck.9025:

I honestly don’t understand why, I mean does it really matter what class someone plays as long as they follow what the commander says and stick to the objectives?

What exactly are the “issues”?

Yes in a coordinated group, no in a ktrain zerg.
Group play is more important to commanders, as in being able to provide the needed boons and heals to your group, and being able to aoe. Which both rangers and thieves lack(but druid! no, but tempest!), and classes like guardian elementalist necromancer revenant have a place for.

Rangers, warriors, thieves and engi’s are not as good as the other classes.

Thieves are worthless in a zerg or large organized group. They can be useful in GvGs with groups that run squishier, but anything beyond 15v15, and the usefulness of a Thief basically becomes 0.

Ranger suffers from the same problems. You just don’t bring anything to a zerg. And if you were going to play Druid, you may as well just play Tempest.

With all said and done, a Thief is a liability in a zerg (Your death will rally someone), and a druid is pretty much a wasted spot.

ahh.. people that say Rangers aren’t useful in a zerg just don’t know how to play Ranger/Druid imo. They can be very useful although not as supportive by any means as Guards etc… One caveat… field fighting is not a place for Rangers or Thiefs… I agree that they really don’t support the team the way it needs to be supported…

but…. When you’re needing some good range and straggler picking the Ranger is great for that. AOE on walls, taking down things at 1500 range etc etc. Frequent enough in a fast moving group that it’s useful.

A havoc team is a better place for a Ranger after all is said and done, and/or roaming.

Thiefs? Well thiefs are good little 1v1 beasts in the roaming world… hiding and hitting from behind before you can fight back and so on. In a group? I love to see them because they drop like flies and nothing makes me happier than pummeling a thief into the ground.

Balthazzarr.1349:

ahh.. people that say Rangers aren’t useful in a zerg just don’t know how to play Ranger/Druid imo. They can be very useful although not as supportive by any means as Guards etc… One caveat… field fighting is not a place for Rangers or Thiefs… I agree that they really don’t support the team the way it needs to be supported…

but…. When you’re needing some good range and straggler picking the Ranger is great for that. AOE on walls, taking down things at 1500 range etc etc. Frequent enough in a fast moving group that it’s useful.

A havoc team is a better place for a Ranger after all is said and done, and/or roaming.

Thiefs? Well thiefs are good little 1v1 beasts in the roaming world… hiding and hitting from behind before you can fight back and so on. In a group? I love to see them because they drop like flies and nothing makes me happier than pummeling a thief into the ground.

As a thief main in WvW, I love being in group fights (even ZvZ). I will admit it took me a while to figure out why thieves are useless in bigger group fights. Most don’t know what they are doing and some better ones will go for anything outside the AoE rings in the middle of the fight.

I have been in zerg fights were I maybe downed once/twice due to losing map awareness. I will, in fact, aim for the driver if I can confirm who it is and wait for the to move outside the rings, otherwise I aim for backline/sideline condi necros, LB/sw+wh druids and glint revs. More often than not, they all die before I do :p

Have not seen any hate, have got complements on healing in wvw front line zerg clashes
if some one wants to kitten about my healing i will switch to my bow and just sit back and watch them all die in clashes why i snipe no more grace no more spotter no more healing or cleanses and empowerment

Balthazzarr.1349:

ahh.. people that say Rangers aren’t useful in a zerg just don’t know how to play Ranger/Druid imo.

A havoc team is a better place for a Ranger after all is said and done, and/or roaming.

…
..
.
I mean…
that’s what everyone else is saying….

I do hate thieves in WvW. Which is why I roam around looking for them to kill.

There’s only a few reasons to enter a squad.

1.) Group comp. Boons and heals have very short range, so melee is priotorized. There’s little reason for non-melee non healers to be placed in these parties. The most important thing is stab rotation as well as resistance for the frontline and as rangers or thieves do not really provide group stability or need it, they shouldn’t usually be placed in groups. In fact it can be bad if the frontline should fail and the enemy comes pouring at you anyways.

2.) Supply count. Unless you’re the commander, you don’t really need it.

3.) Broadcast/Squad Chat. Not too big of a deal if there’s comms. If the squad is organized enough toi care about comps, they’ll generally have that. It would kind of defeat the purpose of having comps if nobody calls anything out. I mean I guess there are players in sync enough to maintain stab rotations telepathically, but I’m not at that level.

4.) Squad Markers. Now this is somewhat useful.

3 and 4 DO warrant a reason to place people in squads regardless until it gets full, but then again inviting people to squad and then kicking them when it gets full is probably the worse options. But it’s really not that big of a deal. For the most part you don’t need to be in the squad unless you are frontline; the biggest boost will be being on Comms in most fights anyways.

Sometimes a guild takes pugs but does not organize them at all (instead just leaving their own comps) since they have no idea what strangers are running. In these cases the benefits of being in squad are rather marginal.

The game does not allow for people to prevent you from following them if they are tagged because they do not “own” the map and do not have any actual binding authority outside of the squad unless voluntarily accepted. Being a member of the server certainly means you have the right to partake in any fights. Personally, there’s never been a commander I couldn’t keep up with on Guard/ele (and still could most of the time on any other class) unless they were 100% leeroy and were a rallybot themselves, in which case comps don’t matter. What I’m saying is that people that get 1 pushed are not being 1 pushed because they don’t have a squad.

Pro Tip: The most dangerous spot is actually the area where the commander has just pushed through. This would be the spot where most of the enemy damage has directed but also past the range of the heals that are focused on the tag. Standing there will generally cause you to die. I bet if you take advantage of this knowledge, commanders will eventually want to have you around.

Rangers and Thieves are squishy. You just have to know how to fight them. I do not win every time myself, but rarely do i think of them as annoying or hating on them. It is game mechanics and individual play put together! I mean by your way of thinking any class could be annoying/hated on!

Blockhead Magee.3092:

I do hate thieves in WvW. Which is why I roam around looking for them to kill.

Depending on your tier I hope I come across you some time and we can duel

WvW compositions are not random groups, they come from tests done by guilds dedicated to WvW. Most WvW guilds have their own build sheet and composition.

Although, what I see the most experienced do, is not to kick. Kick is unnecessary unless actually Zerg is full 50/50. I do not particularly like these exaggerations and ultra perfectionists.

Elite guilds are necessary and do a great job, but the Pugmanders are what really make the WvW community, and especially the server, grow.

The impact of these compositions is great. One morning for example, the zerg I was in, was losing all battles, so we noticed that by distraction there were not enough compositions of the classic 2xguards + the rest. so we call the players to log in their guardians, and so we rebalanced the compositions. and the battles improved.

You yourself are the biggest beneficiary of this “science.” If your zerg (even though you outside of squad) performs better, your chances of surviving a blob collision are better, and ofc bagfarm.

They inflate the perception of the groups size and it looks really bad when the group gets rolled because half of its players flee from the crush.

I..didnt notice any hate when ive been doing WvW lately. Though i try to avoid zergs most of the time, more fun to flip camps and stuff anyways IMO.

thief require own style of comp that focus heavily around posion you basically have to commit a complete comp to it over stranded meta of comp.

ranger not used because they do not have cleave.

warrior not used because they lack aoe con clears.

engi are not used because there AoE are small have poor group support outside of super speed.(and above all there REALLY hard to play well)

Thief can backstab enemy commander.

as much as you have a blast knocking 1 out of the 25+ people in the enemy zerg then spamming your pewpew skill at them, its useless. sure, it works on new players who just joined wvw but no, youre actually being so useless

You don’t need a group / squad to enjoy WvW.

So lately I’ve been playing my ranger, trying something different. Just following the zerg around, or roaming. Fun class, but selfish. Don’t expect an invite and don’t ask for one. I understand the synergy problems.

Group synergy favors certain classes that provide benefits. When playing squad friendly toons, I almost always get an immediate invite. Ranger never. Works for me.

Zeeck.9025:

Over the past couple of weeks I’ve been getting more and more in to WvW and have been enjoying myself for the most part, but one thing that I keep seeing pop up every so often is the active hate against players who join as ranger or thief and more then a few want to kick them out of the main group just for playing one of the classes.

I honestly don’t understand why, I mean does it really matter what class someone plays as long as they follow what the commander says and stick to the objectives?

What exactly are the “issues”?

Let put it in a perspective that I hope that you can relate for you.

Let say you doing a raid and the raid team advertise for DPS but you come in as a druid, they will kick you.

Now, in WvW, they don’t advertise what classes they want but it doesn’t mean there isn’t any of such thing, there is such thing as classes they want. In group fight, ranger and thief are simply not wanted. As for why, is the same reason as a raid, in wvw there is some class that plays well in a team and some don’t, just that simple.

Just a matter of trying to put a square peg into a round hole.

Good rangers, thieves and engineers will use player killer builds and know how to handle them, both pros and cons. The main con often being that sure, you can easily build to survive and support in a zerg, but if you do that you no longer have a player killer build which kind of defeats the purpose of using these classes.

If you come with these classes to a zerg, it’s gonna be assumed you are a bad player. And they are going to intentionally make it worse by putting you in “ranged” parties followed by loud and vocal complaints about how you could possibly die when for some mysterious reason that 5 guardian group that had stability didnt, it’s clearly your fault for not being in such a group. Dont give them that. You’re a medium armor class for cripes sake! We all know what a bad player is – that plump looking guardian falling behind the main group while trying to wave a staff in your face doing no damage.

Probably the best zergs you can fight against as these classes are the ones commanded by someone that doesnt give a kitten about his backline, and that backline consist of classes desperatly trying to fit in just to be able to zerg. Cloud the backline and watch them fall like dominoes while the frontline train is laughably trying to 25v3 whenever they find a big enough group of players to steam towards.

TL;DR do what you’re good at. Dont be a brainless zerger.

Thieves, rangers and engi’s bring nothing useful to the table in terms of large zerg/blob squad comp other than possibly singling out enemy players who fray too far from the zerg. A possible exception would be GOOD druids who know how to play support heals albeit ventari healbot builds exist and can pump out 10k+ heal bursts every few seconds alongside resistance plus alacrity spam on siege when assaulting objectives.

I would much rather have a third guardian, as an example, in my sub squad than a thief because at least that player brings very powerful boons; stability & protection etc.

Smaller scale however, they tend to shine and can be a nuisance to the enemy’s supply lines, towers etc. Outside of the main squad or branched off into a havoc/gank squad Engi’s are known to utilize their stealth with magnet pull for pin sniping though sniping in general is frowned upon.

I say play what you want but try to play smart… I never understand why players cry about not being part of the squad when the oldschool party system still exists and is just as useful if you actually show the initiative and common sense to advertise in map chat “lfg” or tell players you’re organizing a secondary squad for those who can’t get into the main tag’s.

TLDR: It’s not the end of the world folks – play smart, show initiative and organize your own squad/party system to help your server mates as a whole.

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

Balthazzarr.1349:

ahh.. people that say Rangers aren’t useful in a zerg just don’t know how to play Ranger/Druid imo. They can be very useful although not as supportive by any means as Guards etc… One caveat… field fighting is not a place for Rangers or Thiefs… I agree that they really don’t support the team the way it needs to be supported…

but…. When you’re needing some good range and straggler picking the Ranger is great for that. AOE on walls, taking down things at 1500 range etc etc. Frequent enough in a fast moving group that it’s useful.

A havoc team is a better place for a Ranger after all is said and done, and/or roaming.

Thiefs? Well thiefs are good little 1v1 beasts in the roaming world… hiding and hitting from behind before you can fight back and so on. In a group? I love to see them because they drop like flies and nothing makes me happier than pummeling a thief into the ground.

As a thief main in WvW, I love being in group fights (even ZvZ). I will admit it took me a while to figure out why thieves are useless in bigger group fights. Most don’t know what they are doing and some better ones will go for anything outside the AoE rings in the middle of the fight.

I have been in zerg fights were I maybe downed once/twice due to losing map awareness. I will, in fact, aim for the driver if I can confirm who it is and wait for the to move outside the rings, otherwise I aim for backline/sideline condi necros, LB/sw+wh druids and glint revs. More often than not, they all die before I do :p

That’s what you should be doing as a thief or ranger in a ZvZ fight. Unfortunately, the vast majority of GW2 players are too brain dead to even realise how to play their class. The only thing that PvE teaches them is to follow after the tag like a lemming from event to event. Makes it so fricken hard to command those people, especially as they also don’t get on voice comms.

An organized large scale fighting group doesn’t need medium armor classes, simply because other classes give better support, have decent sustain and output good damage, than classes like rangers and thieves, who only mainly do single target attacks and so they are niche in party/squad compositions.

They are better off roaming otherwise, if it isn’t just a PPT commander leading.
Even then they will usually be farmed against any organized groups, if they have 5-8 medium armor classes taking up spots and end up with a lack of support (boons, cleanses and heals) or damage.

Its just how the classes are balanced for large scale fights and how the game mechanics work.

Let me clear this up, coming from a fight based commander who played(s) in many zergbusting guilds.

Thieves are not wanted because they provide virtually zero support. This pushes them into a pure “dps” role which means they compete against condi reapers, revs and warriors. Meta builds on any of those three classes will majorly outperform a thief in group fights, while also not nearly as likely to be a rally bot.

Rangers are actually perfectly viable in group comps if and only if if you run a full minstrel/magi healbot. Any other build then just gtfo squad.

While I do hate thieves in wvw with an utmost passion you won’t believe, i have not experienced any denial of rangers in wvw, theyre allowed in all squads, and I seem a bunch of them as much as any other class

^
Venom share theif in zerg fight.

Ryudnard.2587:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmHUfSfz0HA

^
Venom share theif in zerg fight.

That was literally the 2nd most useless thief I have seen in a zerg fight, beaten out only by the “rally bot” thief.

Taobella.6597:

ranger not used because they do not have cleave.

They have cleave (Sword/GS and even technically LB with piercing shots can hit up to 5 people)

Just wanted to throw that in there.

Thief has been the king of solo roaming since the dawn of times and won’t change, as a trade-off they’re essentially pigeonholed into a sub-optimal staff build for zerging.

Rangers is a skirmisher class, they shine in small scale engagements with either long range sniping or near-infinite sustain wear down tactics to chip away at your health until you’re biting the dust, as a result they also suffer from a zerg perspective viability.

It’s all about what’s more optimal and will contribute to a overall stronger comp, that’s why you see Necro as indisputed mid-backliners (Scourge will catapult them to most valuable zergling) while they are a dying breed on solo/small group roaming due to glaring weaknesses inherent to the class (no blocks or invulns, way too susceptible to burst damage).

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

Taobella.6597:

ranger not used because they do not have cleave.

They have cleave (Sword/GS and even technically LB with piercing shots can hit up to 5 people)

Just wanted to throw that in there.

I agree that designation is not completely accurate. All classes can cleave, but there is a distinction, and that is these weapons only work at point blank range and they can’t do much else with it. The issue is when combat gets to close but not melee range due to hazards.

Let’s consider something like guardian hammer. It is a very slow melee weapon but it does have a range option and area control option as well as a blast. Basically the weapon has something to do even if it’s out of range for most of its attacks.

You also really have to note the amount of AOE CC that comes from medium classes. It’s generally not that much. Rangers have barrage and Engineers have thunderclap…. and yea. It would be outdone by a LB DH using hunter’s ward and that’s not even considered essential these days.

Essentially all the meta class can cleave while still adding utility when not cleaving as well. And considering the warrior, a class that brings a lot of support, is pushed out of the meta, and you know how badly things are going.

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

Taobella.6597:

ranger not used because they do not have cleave.

They have cleave (Sword/GS and even technically LB with piercing shots can hit up to 5 people)

Just wanted to throw that in there.

you also forgot traps ^

Lahm.7056:

Thief has been the king of solo roaming since the dawn of times and won’t change, as a trade-off they’re essentially pigeonholed into a sub-optimal staff build for zerging.

There is no “trade-off”, because that would imply some sort of intent from Anet when there is none, the laughably termed “class balance” in WvW is simply whatever the result is of them designing & balancing around PvP (and since HoT PvE raids).

Theres just a few things id like to leave here and let you deduce why ranger and thief are bad:
Duration of fights
Fights are often over within first push, are ranger and thief reliable enough to deal lots of damage/support/boon corrupt in this short time interval?
Nature of fights
Fights are often done in chokes and inside towers. Are ranger and thief capable of pushing in and able to drop AoE fields/massive AoE bursts while dodging around erratically sustaining allies (cast times(?)) while enemy is dropping statics and lines of warding everywhere?
Skill lag
Skill lag is major part of harder fights in WvW, is ranger/thief capable of not dying in SM during those 30 minute fights that require you to stay on proximity of tag with enemy spreading everywhere with 20 thieves?
Class dominance
Is druid better healer than ele(most heal per sec, mostly regen) or tablet rev (10k+ burst heals)? Does druid have enough boon/buff/cleanseshare to warrant running it instead of melee ele or boonshare mesmer?
Is thief top DPS? you can install arcdps from googling “arcdps” to compare your dps to squad. You’re a selfish non-boonripping class, can you really outdps warriors and necros? Is it worth running thief instead of warrior for cleave when warrior can warbanner multiple allies during same fight? And shiro revenant(and even melee revenant) can do same burst from long range?
Build synergy
Lets say there was a meta where guardians where running swords, reapers spectral builds and revenants were playing sword/sword jumping around. Thief/ranger could join them in single-targeting enemies down and outplaying enemies by “roaming style plays”. But currently there is boonshare meta where cleanse, resistance and boonrip are so important that even warrior is considered bad. Do daredevil and druid have outstanding performance in the current meta ?
PoF expansion
Spellbreaker might break the meleeball, soulbeast stances might prove to be necessary in the next meta, Deadeye with basilisk venom (unblockable) might prove to be next gunflame berserker commanderfocus cancer.
There is hope but i would dare to claim that soulbeast wont have enough DPS/heals to warrant running it, because ranger has terrible weapons for zerging outside GS.
I tried holosmith myself, and its insane damage, I believe Yolosmith will make engineer at least borderline viable in WvW squads. Also that traited superspeed share without target cap. Mmmmmh… lets hope they dont nerf it to ground like scrapper (scrapper got like what… 7 good WvW skills/traits nerfed?)

Longbow druid bestest. Funny shoot slow reapers.

Don’t expect to be welcomed in an organized guild zerg unless the commander knows and trusts you to run thief but still in most cases you become the dedicated keep tapper.

A lot of players here have completely missed the point. The reason you join a squad is to get your share of boons hence why there should be 5 man subgroups so they get shared properly. To be eligible to be among these subgroups you either need to 1. Rely on these boons and buffs to survive and do your job 2. Be able to provide these boons and buffs.

The reason why ranger and thief should never join a squad that’s close to full is because they simply do not need it. They are self-sufficient and the druid heals actually help the group more when out of the squad as their healing is not primarily focusing their subgroup but instead healing the lowest players. It also the total efficiency of the druid therefore goes up outside a squad hence why it’s superior outside of it.

Thiefs should primarily just form their own groups and make mini focus parties or just run havoc instead to maximize their effectiveness as blob fights will most likely just get you killed.

If you don’t have stab, it is more or less impossible to stay with the melee train, which is where your heals are needed. Healing prioritizes health percentage over subgroups afaik.
Running healing druid in blobs without stab feels worthless.
In terms of ele vs druid: Ele offers condition removal, auras, more damage and higher heal/second
Druid offers spotter, grace of the Land, stealth and more waterfields.
From a selfish point if view, playing druid in blobs makes no sense anyway, as you do not even get half the loot and wvw xp that e.g. necro or guardian gets. Probably not even a third.

jamesdolla.3954:

Rangers, warriors, thieves and engi’s are not as good as the other classes.

Shouldnt Anet fix this?

There is no balance. Some things do what they do so much better than everything else that they make the rest irrelevant.

You can play what you want, how you want, but WvW is a team game. If you don’t want to contribute to your group with some form of valuable support (which means meta support, be it offensive or defensive), expect to be unwanted.

If someone does not want Rangers, Thieves, Engineers, or what ever else in their squad, don’t take it personally. It isn’t a personal assault. It’s about what works best and wanting the group to succeed. If you want to be a part of that group, play something that’s needed and I’m sure you’ll be invited. Otherwise, enjoy yourself and practice self sustain. The less you die and the more you contribute the better, though that does not necessarily mean that you will see a squad invite.

I play a Flamethrower Engineer in zergs because I enjoy it. I designed it to be as self sufficient as possible because I don’t expect to be invited to squads. I know that what I’m doing is of little value but I make my presence positive by staying alive, following orders and rescuing teammates. I could be doing all of this on a meta class/build but I play video games to enjoy myself not to be efficient or competitive. If I’m bringing my team down, I’ll switch. But in large scale combat (30+), it hardly matters.

Bottom line: Some things are better than others and getting angry about it won’t change it. Maybe Anet will address it in the future, maybe they won’t. Holding your breath will only set you up for disappointment. Play what you enjoy and do what you can to be a positive impact. It doesn’t matter if what you’re doing isn’t as valuable as what others are doing, as long as you’re putting effort forth to help your group.

Bratec.7136:

jamesdolla.3954:

Rangers, warriors, thieves and engi’s are not as good as the other classes.

Shouldnt Anet fix this?

Each one has other uses in WvW. Possible the new elites will help make them more viable, but three of them fairly well run roaming and havoc groups.

Each class has their use.

Of note: as long as WvW class balance stays tied to PvE, there will be classes that don’t have well defined roles in a mixed composition geared towards killing other players.

And I think separating that balance distribution is more work than they have the resources for.

Make your own stealth squad…

Maybe boost longbow 5 skill. Every arrow could do so same amount dmg than meteor shower meteor.

Junkpile.7439:

Maybe boost longbow 5 skill. Every arrow could do so same amount dmg than meteor shower meteor.

But Anet already solved the ranger issue by giving guardian a better longbow.

Zeeck.9025:

Over the past couple of weeks I’ve been getting more and more in to WvW and have been enjoying myself for the most part, but one thing that I keep seeing pop up every so often is the active hate against players who join as ranger or thief and more then a few want to kick them out of the main group just for playing one of the classes.

I honestly don’t understand why, I mean does it really matter what class someone plays as long as they follow what the commander says and stick to the objectives?

What exactly are the “issues”?

Welcome to WvW. I hope you’re enjoying yourself.

It matters immensly what class and what build in that class you are running. This includes your stats, traits, weapons, and utility skills. Keep in mind that if you are not playing something that is more effective, you are taking up a slot in the party and the squad, you are most likely dying and rallying the enemy. WvW is all about complimenting your party and filling the deficit of the party and group composition. WvW has spent years developing the best classes and builds that work well together.

Here’s an analogy that I give the PvE folks: Raids. Raids have a very specific group comp and builds they want that basically = maximum dps with minimal effort put towards survivability. This usually means one PS warrior for 100% might stacks, 1 mesmer for constant alacrity and 100% quickness uptime, 1 healer, usually a druid, and 2 dps classes, which over time, just like WvW, has been figured out to be certain classes and builds, such as a condi ranger as opposed to condi necro. You want your dps running PTV gear as it’s pulling down the group.

It’s the same thing for WvW, but with a different goal in mind, balancing survivablity vs dps. Over the years, it’s generally aggreed that the most effective party comp is 2 guards, 1 rev, then, it gets a bit hazy. Usually a mesmer for defence/utility, necro for dps, warrior for CC/dps/banner/might, ele for dps/heals, druid (not ranger) for heals, engi for dps/cleanse/reflects. If you’re group is lacking one of those classes, then you’re taking up a spot. Rangers/dps druids are best at single target damage. That’s not what’s best for WvW. WvW is much more about area damage. Even if my aoe does less damage than your single target, if you multiply it by 5, it will do way more dps than your single target ever could. Much of ranger dps is also tied to their pet, which dies on incoming and has poor control. Also, most rangers/theives don’t supply the boons/cleanses that other classes do. High dps rangers and thieves are very squishy and will die on inc if they are trying to run with the main group. If you’re dead or downed you are a liability, no matter how much single target dps you do.

The one and only exception is for a pick team. This means you’re not running with the group and “picking” off people on the fringes. This tactic should only be utilized if there are enough core classes to deal with the main threat. This is the other reason why folks get upset, because it’s usually better to run a core class and be part of the group as everyone is stronger that way. If there are too many people playing pick, then the enemy will just run over the main group, then you.

There’s a lot of grey here, mostly regarding your numbers and the numbers of the enemy, as well as whatever the main guilds meta is, but look at the squad. If there are 30 people, and you have 3 parties that are comped well, and 3 parties that are a mess of all necros/thieves/rangers/eles, then those parties are gonna die fast. That’s why people don’t want you playing a thief/rangers. They want you on a guardian/rev to fill out the other parties and make them stronger. There are also just too many viable WvW builds to cover here, and it really depends on the main guild and what they need. Not ever group runs the same. Some are heavy power, some are heavy condi, not all runs the exact same guardian build or rev build, mesmer build, etc. Best thing, is find a group you think you enjoy running with and join their guild, learn what their meta is, and conform to it. Yeah, that’s an ugly and hard word to swallow in gaming, conformaty.

And for God’s sake, get in whatever VoiP your group is using.

zezuils beast.1204:

(snip)

The reason why ranger and thief should never join a squad that’s close to full is because they simply do not need (boons).

This.

When I play a thief I never join a squad unless it’s nowhere near full. And then only so the Commander can keep track of me. My role is to be self-sufficient; picking off stragglers, tagging keeps, scouting zergs, and solo capping camps. While I can add value to a zerg fight, it’s certainly not necessary that I be in the squad to do so. Group comps for frontline and midline parties are much more important, and a thief and ranger play no role in those.