Guild Wars 2

Tonight a few of my guildies and myself decided to join the battle and get into WvW to make a difference. It was great, until we noticed a trend. One main group did nothing more than run from one point to another capping and running away. No one stayed to set up defenses and actually attempt to hold the point. We even stratted and took a keep with just 6 of us. The Zerg showed up after to finish the job but then disappeared taking everyone but 4 of us with it.

No more than 5 minutes later the keep was lost as well as every single point they we spent nearly an hour to take. After getting fed up I called them out and there response?

Farming objectives for karma, influence, and gold. It feels like it is better rewarded to run around capping points than to actually stay and defend. Anvil Rock and other consistently losing servers will not win WvW until this stops. It truly makes WvW frustrating for those who wish to do it right, while others take advantage of the system.

Don’t confuse Anvil Rock idiocy with a general trend. Don’t forget its a server who’s only remaining field commander thought that the best place to store an orb while it reset was in front of an enemy tower we were attacking.

Many other server’s use bite and hold tactics, to great effect. And really if you are going to get on the karma train, supply posts work better than keeps and towers, they are faster and you don’t need to spend gold on rams.

Sorry but the overwhelming majority of servers do this. You can switch to others if you don’t believe me. It’s simply far more “effective” to run around and cap than stay back to defend and hold what you have. As long as holding the keeps reward nothing or is not required to capture other parts of the map, things won’t change. Ever.

@Kiviar thats the thing, their guild is big enough they can take towers and keeps like its nothing. Minutes with or without rams and other siege engines. They want these places capped by other servers so they can come back and do it again.

@Tom Yes the majority of servers do this. Thus it is a problem with WvW and as a result servers like AR lose because we simply don’t have enough players NOT farming to keep any points.

As for saying its more effective sure it gets your server small immediate points, but when the enemy comes and takes it back any earning from capping become null as they enemy just got the same points. Then because they hold it after they take it, they also get the hold points.

Simple fact, there is no sense of working as a server; there is no benefit. Its “worth” more to run around capping than it is to be winning in WvW.

Malzie.6093:

@Kiviar thats the thing, their guild is big enough they can take towers and keeps like its nothing. Minutes with or without rams and other siege engines. They want these places capped by other servers so they can come back and do it again.

@Tom Yes the majority of servers do this. Thus it is a problem with WvW and as a result servers like AR lose because we simply don’t have enough players NOT farming to keep any points.

As for saying its more effective sure it gets your server small immediate points, but when the enemy comes and takes it back any earning from capping become null as they enemy just got the same points. Then because they hold it after they take it, they also get the hold points.

Simple fact, there is no sense of working as a server; there is no benefit. Its “worth” more to run around capping than it is to be winning in WvW.

My apologies. Apparently you thought that by efficiency I meant war points, while 99% of the players are currently giving a rat’s kitten about them. They only care about the influence, karma, exp and coin you rack when running around the map capping like a bunch of rabid animals.

This is what’s broken in wvw. No personal incentive to defend – no defense.

Edit: Apparently you came to the same conclusion in the end.

Whats wrong is you get new pairing on friday, wake up on saturday morning to see one server took a 20000 point lead in one night capping session.
Makes the other 2 servers give up on the first/second day of the WvW matchup.

“Whats wrong is you get new pairing on friday, wake up on saturday morning to see one server took a 20000 point lead in one night capping session.”

You should try being on an EU server where the new pairing is at 2 freaking in the morning. I played it again last night and within one hour one server was over +500 on the tick because they obviously have a night kap krewe from North America.

Ah well, see ya next Friday.

@Kiviar: funny thing, I saw idiots on Fergys doing the same thing. 3 camps, 2 towers, then they went over to AR borderlands, leaving what we gained wide open.

I guess the thing is that it really isnt a game thing, more of a mob mentality. Unfortunately it isn’t that advantageous from a server point of view..

Lynx Raven Raide.2764:

@Kiviar: funny thing, I saw idiots on Fergys doing the same thing. 3 camps, 2 towers, then they went over to AR borderlands, leaving what we gained wide open.

I guess the thing is that it really isnt a game thing, more of a mob mentality. Unfortunately it isn’t that advantageous from a server point of view..

Well, in their defence anything they took would probably just be recaptured by Darkhaven even if they were properly defending it. The numbers are just too different.

Problem is, everyone is confusing the actions of the two losing servers with the actions of the winning server. If you look at the really good servers, they hold what they take. Are there also zerg who run around and cap things for the karma? Certainly. Servers that take and hold win, and winning draws more zerg to you.. As the saying goes ‘zerg gonna’ zerg’.

Historically, in gaming, this problem has been solved in one of two ways:

A) Make things harder to capture. DAOC and POTBS did this. Attacking a keep was a big deal and defenders had ample time to hear about the attack (warnings were automatic) and show up to defend it.

B) Create a “lattice” — a system of front lines where attacks can happen. In order to attack, say, Pangloss, you must own one of the two towers that are beside it. If you lose the tower while attacking Pangloss, then you lose the ability to take Pangloss. Therefore to advance a front line it’s critical not just to attack but also to make sure they don’t cut off your attack but taking the base that’s giving you the attack route to begin with. Planetside and Battleground Europe did this.

I’m not sure which method is better. I kind of prefer the Planetside-style “lattice” idea but GW2 doesn’t do either of these.

Incidentally, most games start out like this, with no means of guiding the battle and they all eventually implement something because they all run into this same problem.

Slamz.5376:

Historically, in gaming, this problem has been solved in one of two ways:

A) Make things harder to capture. DAOC and POTBS did this. Attacking a keep was a big deal and defenders had ample time to hear about the attack (warnings were automatic) and show up to defend it.

B) Create a “lattice” — a system of front lines where attacks can happen. In order to attack, say, Pangloss, you must own one of the two towers that are beside it. If you lose the tower while attacking Pangloss, then you lose the ability to take Pangloss. Therefore to advance a front line it’s critical not just to attack but also to make sure they don’t cut off your attack but taking the base that’s giving you the attack route to begin with. Planetside and Battleground Europe did this.

I’m not sure which method is better. I kind of prefer the Planetside-style “lattice” idea but GW2 doesn’t do either of these.

Incidentally, most games start out like this, with no means of guiding the battle and they all eventually implement something because they all run into this same problem.

Pretty much this.

This is what’s broken in wvw. No personal incentive to defend – no defense.

Wait what? Defending has an associated event and reward with it, for any location short of sentries (and I’m pretty sure those have them as well, actually, but its near impossible to get).

In fact, a good defense against a big/stupid zerg is potentially much more lucrative than running around capping stuff endlessly. I’ve seen people get 10 or 20 or 30 loot bags from mass killings with arrow carts over a span of 10-odd minutes (which means 3 full defense events and associated rewards on top of that).

Personally, I think a lot of people just like attacking places more than defending them. Defending doesn’t really have a defined point where you’ve “won”, while attacking clearly does.

This is what happened last week on Darkhaven. A guild was just farming karma and xp, and they didn’t want to help the server at all.

I’m fairly certain that efficiently blitzing objectives in WvW is the absolute fastest way to level in the game outside of Crafting, netting you ~ 3 levels/hour. Probably ridiculous karma, too.

And yes, CRFT are pretty much the new TFO. To be honest though, it really doesn’t matter since it isn’t like they are taking anyone’s queue spots to PVE blitz in WvW.

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

“Whats wrong is you get new pairing on friday, wake up on saturday morning to see one server took a 20000 point lead in one night capping session.”

You should try being on an EU server where the new pairing is at 2 freaking in the morning. I played it again last night and within one hour one server was over +500 on the tick because they obviously have a night kap krewe from North America.

Ah well, see ya next Friday.

I am on a EU server…