Guild Wars 2

Thanks for the battle last night at the ET Borderlands Asc. Hills keep when ET and SBI teamed up to take HoD’s ownership out. The organization on all sides was just amazing and everybody brought their A game.

I was particularly amazed at the coordination that it had to have taken when ET and SBI split up portions of the space outside the keep as well as inside the keep room in order to avoid killing each other as much as possible. One server took the upper catwalk and the other took the floor of the keep. ET and SBI also split up the bridge and the sides of the keep lord’s door.

HoD holed up in the keep room with siege and managed to more than once wipe both SBI and ET when they made it through the door. It was a very exciting battle, even though half the time nobody knew when people had actually entered the door due to the rendering bug.

I did want to mention an interesting side effect with the rendering bug though. I’ve got a couple of screenshots with Stormbluff on the left side of the door and ET on the bridge and right side of the door where they both stood to aoe the door trying to pin HOD inside.

http://i.imgur.com/H4YCl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Ko1dV.jpg

The thing I noticed in these screenshots is that one server/location in particular is rendering to almost the exclusion of the other side. Likely because I looked to the left (towards the Northern door as I was closing doors as an annoyance for a while) while speed running in and those are just the people that rendered first to the exclusion of the ones that actually killed me. Since SBI and ET split up the space, it became almost like a server cloaking device due to the rendering bug.

Did ET and SBI have the same issue? Some of the times we wiped you guys seemed very strange and I’m wondering if it’s because you could see each other and not HoD.

I do hope they fix the rendering bug soon and we can fight according to the actual rules of the game. The battle was epic and it was disappointing that the rendering software was the clear winner for all sides.

Yay! I was one of the HoD holed up in the keep lord’s room staying just out of the massive amount of aoe at the door. That was a good time, and fun to see the usefulness of choke points!

Good game, all.

This rendering bug/engine “limitation” is really getting to be unforgivably intrusive. Not being able to see any enemies in any medium-large scale encounters is a major fault and an enraging aspect of this game engine, be it bug or terrible technical “limitations” (it’s 2012, DAoC did a better job of rendering major battles like this a decade ago)

I’m enjoying this match-up immensely (I am on ET)but every single fight, for me at least, winds up being a sickening guessing game as to where to lay any AoE when I can only see 3-10 enemies out of 50. Inching forward to drop some aoe when all of a sudden im surrounded by a huge group of enemies is getting far less entertaining each time it happens.

It happens to everyone. I don’t know how many times I’ve jumped into a group of 5+ and it turns out to be 40+.

Now it seems every time I die is because of this rendering issue when suddenly you are surrounded by a large group of enemies out of nowhere.

Yeah its enraging. Cant see people on walls, cant see the enemy pushing, there are times when mykittenteammates disappear 5ft in front of me because the engine is bored and decides to render a tree across the world.

Yes the bug makes it not worth playing. And yes, the guild leaders on ET have already agreed to bend over for SI and let them have a victory just so henge would be last place.

Yes, the bug is happening to everyone. But this would have been a much better post if the OP had stopped insinuating… Hell, outright accusing SBI and ET of collusion. I was there for the whole battle and guess what? SBI was waiting in the wings, for ET to do the work of breaking down the walls. Once the walls where down and ET had swooped in for the attack we came in behind them to try and pin their attack against HoD’s forces, hoping that in the chaos both ET and HoD would miss us long enough for us to cripple both armies. My guild was actually the main part of a smaller group that went up on the ramparts and cost ET two trebs and a few other pieces of equipment.

The walls and areas ended up divided they way they did because ET reacted fast enough to actually push us back and give HoD time to notice we were there creating a situations where all three armies were fighting a two way battle. Its getting really annoying to continually have servers accusing each other of working together when all that is happening is that people are taking those tactical chance they are being provided by the other teams. Last night was a great battle and all these unfounded accusations are just diminishing the fun for everyone all around.

“And yes, the guild leaders on ET have already agreed to bend over for SI and let them have a victory just so henge would be last place.” Fugly, I don’t know where you get your information but, as far as I know, if this decision has taken place its taken place on ET only. And if that’s the case then the ET leaders are, in my opinion, a bunch of quitters who should be ousted and replaced by people that are willing to actually try their best to take the first place spot from both SBI and HoD. And I would welcome the challenge.

I have to say that was the most epic battle Ive had in this game yet. There was no coordination between Et and us(SI). We honestly wanted ET to run in and then come in for the cleanup. That just ended up in a three way batle. I commend the Henge on their valiant defense.

I was there on the southern wall and I thought we had it when we set up about siege weapons on the inner wall but ET swarmed us and took them out. I was saddened when most of SI decided to give up the battle of the keep to intercept Henge and let ET take the keep. I fought on that wall down to the last man though. Epic.

Good job to all of you out there. I hope more battles like that occur. I enjoyed teleporting into groups of enemies and whirling wrath the enemy. With the three orb bonus, the damage is amazing!

The culling gets insanely bad in 3 way fights. Last night when we took Garrison, HoD kept reviving the keep lord right in the middle of the capture circle while we couldn’t even see them. You’d just see the corpse’s health going up.

We had to eventually take it by just aoe’ing on top of the keep lord’s corpse nonstop. Pretty funny as downed arrows just started popping up out of the blue with nothing below them :P

The culling is annoying as hell

when a Warrior can pop me with 100B’s and i not see him cause he’s not loaded it’s getting to the point of silly…

Just remove the culling, If your engine can’t run it, don’t try and use a BS method to hide that fact..

SBI was waiting in the wings, for ET to do the work of breaking down the walls. Once the walls where down and ET had swooped in for the attack we came in behind them to try and pin their attack against HoD’s forces, hoping that in the chaos both ET and HoD would miss us long enough for us to cripple both armies.

One server came in from the north and the other from the south. From inside the keep, we rarely saw the two engage – ever. That is what I saw. It is also what most of the other people in or around the keep saw and it was discussed in public chat and pretty much agreed upon. The collusion was very obvious, although I’m sure not everybody was in on it.

And heck, it’s not like it’s a bad thing. The fighting is epic. The game is set up specifically to allow two sides to gang up on a third side. So as far as I’m concerned it’s not a bad thing – it’s the game working as intended.

Now if the rendering bug were fixed… then maybe it really would be working as intended. I want the full experience and not people randomly appearing next to our siege at the moment it comes down for an instant death.

Wraithowl, as a player on HoD I would like to beg everyone you know on SBI to keep using the tactics you are using. You’d have to be idiots to turn a 2-way battle where 100% of the deaths are your enemy into a 3-way battle before you’re sure you can win it, and I’m sure the majority of players on HoD appreciate you playing smart since we really do appreciate the challenge.

Please understand a lot of HoD players are recent transfers that somehow haven’t noticed HoD’s frequent calls in /map to let the enemy keep each other busy or do our work for us. Or better yet, even to head south once inside the outer walls since an enemy went north… and we can just wait for them to kill each other some before we pounce… sound familiar, Sparkles? It’s not collusion to attack the flank left exposed by an enemy, it’s smart tactics.

As for the rendering issue, it has been a bigger issue this week than last. That suggests our enemies are ensuring they have sufficient numbers to bring the battle to us, which is good. But not being able to see those sufficient numbers is obviously bad since we don’t know to call for more backup early enough. I’m sure Anet is working on it, so hopefully invisible armies will cease to exist soon.

A guildie just supplied another image taken from a slightly different vantage point outside the keep lord’s room. It was taken at almost the same time as mine was (you can link them up with the “is our keep lord down” phrase in chat). It shows exactly how bad the rendering is from my pic to theirs and is of interest for this reason.

http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/18246116/sn/1096437922/name/gw007.jpg

You see the same SBI from my pic to theirs, but notice all the ET folks on the right side of the door that weren’t in my pic. Both groups are aoe’ing the keep lord’s door. I won’t ask why they’re both doing that and not actually attacking each other.

haha, yeah, Wraithowl. The barely disguised whining was amusing.
To speak on that point, though. yes, HoD is getting focused in a double team. collusion accusation are clearly incorrect.
An example from day 1 in EB. SBI and ET had split push lowlands. ET had 60+ people building seige and camping HoD spawn point, while SBI was hitting from the north, and had brought down northern/eastern walls from trebs at jerrifers.
ET’s soul purpose in the fight was to prevent HoD from getting to lowlands, so SBI could cap it. there were less then 10 defenders alive inside, and keep lord was dead, with 2 inner walls down.
SBI obviously was not in on this, as SBI took this opportunity, to instead of take lowlands, back out while ET had 90% of their forces camping HoD, to take SM from ET.
This is why you have such a lead, and all 3 orbs.(no slight to SBI intended at all, SBI has fought hard, long, fair every match.) ET’s objective is to make HoD lose, not win. A valid tactic, I didn’t think their egos had it in them honestly. But its had to seem usually easy this match up, no?

Regardless, yes the pop in issue is hitting everyone, and is making WvW near unplayable. its completely destroying any semblance of “skill”.
The rendering issue needs its own thread of outcry. one without the silly server accusation bias.

Regardless, yes the pop in issue is hitting everyone, and is making WvW near unplayable. its completely destroying any semblance of “skill”.
The rendering issue needs its own thread of outcry. one without the silly server accusation bias.

It was important to bring up the situation as it involved different groups sitting in different locations within a somewhat small space as shown in the pics. The rendering appears to be specifically biased in this case in that it will render one group potentially and not the other. So it becomes a “server biased” rendering. Which is a huge issue outside of the basic “pop” issue that everybody is seeing in WvW.

The collusion is minor in comparison and it’s a part of the game. Though honestly why two servers would sit on opposite sides and aoe the keep lord’s door without hitting each other is completely beyond me.

It is specifically why I asked if other groups were seeing the same thing in that fight as it took place in somewhat small spaces. It would be helpful to see other pics that showed the issue.

I am also wondering if it’s possible to exploit it, although I don’t think anybody has tried before.

Its range based. It will show who you are closest to. Guilds/servers run in packs, so it will tend to render only that one group.

Exploit in what way? simply, scouting, then having a the full group run in and be invisible while aoeing? yes. and its a severe problem.
Conversely, baiting. tricking a force to run into invisible death, by chasing a 3-5 man group retreating.

Thankfully, I think seige always loads? Ive not noticed invisible seige yet anyway.

it’s Happen to SBI boarderland too(Today)..same location..same case happen like this~
ET on Right…SBI on Left…guess wat?
we hold the keep~It’s a Epic Fight~
they Throw In Golem few time~lolz..whole floor is Loot and no time for it~

Since people can’t seem to understand why two opposing sides would AoE the keep lord instead of each other, think about it. Here are the options:
- fight each other outside the well fortified position reducing your numbers even if you are successful, then get wiped out by the well fortified defenders of the keep.
- fight the keep lord first, then hash it out with those other guys and see who walks away with the keep.

Why are you surprised they would choose the second option? I sure hope HoD would choose the second option.

Casia.4281:

Its range based. It will show who you are closest to. Guilds/servers run in packs, so it will tend to render only that one group.

Exploit in what way? simply, scouting, then having a the full group run in and be invisible while aoeing? yes. and its a severe problem.
Conversely, baiting. tricking a force to run into invisible death, by chasing a 3-5 man group retreating.

Thankfully, I think seige always loads? Ive not noticed invisible seige yet anyway.

Siege must always load as it seems to be the only constant thing that everybody always attacked on all sides.

And yes, exploiting like you’re suggesting is likely.

Given the pics I’ve collected it’s within the arc of the camera and not range-based. So it matters which way I look when I enter the keep. If you look to the left, then the left people will pop in first. The people on the right may not render regardless of distance – as it shows in my pics. That’s my hypothesis.

Also, you likely have a max that render and so it would be common in a large siege like this that the ones that will render would be your own guildies and not the enemies. Because you are standing in the midst of them and they’ve been rendering since you first started out. One suggestion might be to cull the rendering of people on your side somehow in order to make enemies more noticeable.

Richard.8207:

Since people can’t seem to understand why two opposing sides would AoE the keep lord instead of each other, think about it. Here are the options:
- fight each other outside the well fortified position reducing your numbers even if you are successful, then get wiped out by the well fortified defenders of the keep.
- fight the keep lord first, then hash it out with those other guys and see who walks away with the keep.

Why are you surprised they would choose the second option? I sure hope HoD would choose the second option.

You do realize that aoe’ing outside of the keep lord’s room isn’t effective right? Didn’t hurt the HoD people due to mesmers. Didn’t hurt each other. Didn’t hurt the keep lord (he was already dead in one of my pics). They weren’t aoe’ing the keep lord – they were aoe’ing the doorway.

So SBI and ET are now allied and HoD NOT JQQing about it? LOL :p

Unfortunately I was qued for W3 at the time this fight took place epic sad Azura face but it sounds like a great fight. As for the culling, i witnessed this on the first night of the rematch against ET in the bay keep. I was late to the fight and thought we had it in the bag as I only saw our team, as a Thief AOE is not my strong point so i was tab targetting and heart seekering, dodging and throwing daggers into the virtual blindness that is player culling.

I DO have a suggestion for this tho… Avatar Imposters. Rendering each indervidual character, with their armor and what not is heavy on the server, so instead of NOT rendering them at all, why not just render a very low res, basic model? Yes it will be pixelated and all char will look the same and what not but at least you could SEE your enemies. Seeing a pixelated enemy with stop start animations is better than seeing no enemy at all.

It’s not collusion Sparkles, it’s strategy. Trust me, nothing was going on. We went to the south and took down the door. We rushed in and had no idea ET was on the other. We said “there’s two treb’s of theirs, let’s go take them”. We rushed in and then 30 of them rendered on us. We all backed off as a server and let ET push. When ET finally got down from the trebs, we sent a strike force, led by FoTN, to assasult their siege. We downed it all and then joined the main force.

So, of course you didn’t see us attack or fight them (though it did happen in a couple small skirmishes), but the major battle that could of happened didn’t because we decided as a server to let ET do the dirty work. Think what you will, but there was nothing happening. And don’t sit there and act like maybe the “big guilds” were the only one’s involved.

The very title of the thread is a QQ.. and it rains down after that..
you are QQing, but covering it with cudos to your enemies..

you not fooling anyone, you still QQing.

When HoD teams up with another server to beat someone else is “Strategic Move”
When someone teams up against HoD or just hapens expontaneously its totaly not fair.

Keep claiming you apreciate the challenge.. that makes your QQ look like something else.. (NOIT!)

Tuks.7532:

The very title of the thread is a QQ.. and it rains down after that..
you are QQing, but covering it with cudos to your enemies..

you not fooling anyone, you still QQing.

When HoD teams up with another server to beat someone else is “Strategic Move”
When someone teams up against HoD or just hapens expontaneously its totaly not fair.

Keep claiming you apreciate the challenge.. that makes your QQ look like something else.. (NOIT!)

It was a strategic move and very well done. Why are you trying to pretend there was something wrong with it? I am appreciative. Somebody hopefully is patting themselves on the back. I and my friends get more challenge and are on call for a greater part of the day today because there’s so much going on. Oh, the horror of it. What an awful thing to happen! I am enjoying the game and am the epitome of a happy camper. Clearly a /slitwrist issue.

My main concern is the rendering issue and how it can and is likely being used in an exploitive manner. Which arenanet really needs to fix. Look at the pics – clearly there is 1 ET from my pic and then in the other guildies pic (which is taken just a little after mine) there’s a mass of ET. That are the same distance from my corpse, but at a different angle.

We should not have survived the keep lord siege once people busted through the door. The only reason we did was clearly the fact that none of the enemy could see us – just like we couldn’t see them.

I would be happy to have my character rendered as a stick figure or better yet a ball (we need more balls in keep sieges after all) just so that I could see them. I don’t care about the pretty graphics if it messes with my gameplay.