Guild Wars 2

With yaks and camps having a very minor impact and the elimination of bloodlust, roamers and small parties will have nothing better to do than just stay with the zerg or not play at all.

I’ve outlined most of my points in this post. I have a more relevant statement about it a few replies later. However, I didn’t want to get off topic of that post, so I sarted a new one.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Great-Solution-to-Auto-Upgrade-Dilemma/first#post5093516

To sum up the points in that post, since yaks and camps play a much lesser role, there will be less roamers. The central laser event will be the opposite of what Anet intends as the higher population server will camp it and spare only smaller groups to defend a T3 structure being attacked.

Something I didn’t add is that bloodlust is gone. While some people love it, hate it, or just don’t care about it, it is something that adds another layer to WvW by adding a small stat buff, but more importantly, grants points per stop. No matter what your feelings on bloodlust are, it is another thing that small parties, or roamers can do that have a large impact for their server.

I know it will most likely not change. The maps have been made and the mechanics have been programmed. I’m very concerned here, not only for myself, but for WvW in general. I’m really not just focusing on the negative. I’ve had positive things to say about HoT. If past behavior is any predictor of future change, then Anet will do nothing about this, but I hope they read my rational posts, and many like it, and think about this more.

Supply is still critical for both offense and defense. Yaks are still critical for upgrade speed. I don’t foresee as big an impact as the doom callers are predicting.

im concerned too. the upgrades and the trailer of the new map just scream eotm 2 and eotm is pretty unpopular among the wvw population. maybe the shrines can be made less pve/ less pve stupid mobs and turned int ta roamer kinda thing like bloodlust.
honestly the trailer shows npc traps and thats a big nono for wvw. we dont want jumping puzzsles, we dont want less player control, we actually want more controll and less pve mobs and pve content. nobody cares for the centaurs for a reason! we dont want pve we want pvp no pve mobs. those stupid deers and what not everywhere already rallie downed opponents all the time.
the new upgrade system could turn wvw into a new pve karma train where keeps and upgrades dont matter. please anet check again what wvw needs and remove all pve crap of the new map and check again if automated upgrades are a step in a good direction.

Zerging is never going to go away. I see so many people that seem so proud of themselves when they zerg down a thief.

They /laugh, jump on the dead body, /sit/sit/sit and so on. So they obviously receive the same reward in their minds as though they did it all by themselves. Which IMO doesnt make the least bit of sense to me.

So people are going to stay in the safety of their mass amounts of friends while running down 1 or 2 people and feel good and proud about it regardless on what they change.

Honestly, and from only my perspective, zergs will die in the new maps.
This will be all about small groups, small defense groups and coordination from all angles. I do not think that EOTM tactic will work.
Also I think the old WvW meta will die here and a new breed of commanders and players will rise.

Trajan.4953:

Honestly, and from only my perspective, zergs will die in the new maps.
This will be all about small groups, small defense groups and coordination from all angles. I do not think that EOTM tactic will work.
Also I think the old WvW meta will die here and a new breed of commanders and players will rise.

yes pve players only. and no there will be zergs and they will alll be eotm pve scrubs hunting for pve mobs to do pve stuff. wvw as it is is completely destroyed by these changes!

GreyWraith.8394:

Supply is still critical for both offense and defense. Yaks are still critical for upgrade speed. I don’t foresee as big an impact as the doom callers are predicting.

Supply is critical, Yaks are not. Upgrade speed boost doesn’t mean anything when you know that as long as you bunkers a structure it doesn’t matter if Yaks get in or not, you’ll still get those upgrades in to repair everything eventually.

Ultimaistanza.4793:

GreyWraith.8394:

Supply is still critical for both offense and defense. Yaks are still critical for upgrade speed. I don’t foresee as big an impact as the doom callers are predicting.

Supply is critical, Yaks are not. Upgrade speed boost doesn’t mean anything when you know that as long as you bunkers a structure it doesn’t matter if Yaks get in or not, you’ll still get those upgrades in to repair everything eventually.

Yaks will speed up the upgrades. What this means is you need to ACTIVELY defend and patrol. No more just going out an zerging for the sake of it.

Also, people keep forgetting we will get the NEW WvW maps with this change, we won’t have the old maps.

Dusty Moon.4382:

Ultimaistanza.4793:

GreyWraith.8394:

Supply is still critical for both offense and defense. Yaks are still critical for upgrade speed. I don’t foresee as big an impact as the doom callers are predicting.

Supply is critical, Yaks are not. Upgrade speed boost doesn’t mean anything when you know that as long as you bunkers a structure it doesn’t matter if Yaks get in or not, you’ll still get those upgrades in to repair everything eventually.

Yaks will speed up the upgrades. What this means is you need to ACTIVELY defend and patrol. No more just going out an zerging for the sake of it.

Also, people keep forgetting we will get the NEW WvW maps with this change, we won’t have the old maps.

Yes, the Yaks speed up the upgrade and that’s exactly why they aren’t critical. You do NOT need Yaks to finish upgrades. There is no reason to go out and recap Yaks while your structure is being attacked, when you can just sit in there and keep delaying the enemy until things get reset with the next upgrade.

Also, I don’t think people are forgetting there will be the new WvW map, it’s just that it doesn’t matter. These changes limit and remove strategies in WvW by default and that’s not going to change regardless of what map it’s in.

Dusty Moon.4382:

Ultimaistanza.4793:

GreyWraith.8394:

Supply is still critical for both offense and defense. Yaks are still critical for upgrade speed. I don’t foresee as big an impact as the doom callers are predicting.

Supply is critical, Yaks are not. Upgrade speed boost doesn’t mean anything when you know that as long as you bunkers a structure it doesn’t matter if Yaks get in or not, you’ll still get those upgrades in to repair everything eventually.

Yaks will speed up the upgrades. What this means is you need to ACTIVELY defend and patrol. No more just going out an zerging for the sake of it.

Also, people keep forgetting we will get the NEW WvW maps with this change, we won’t have the old maps.

Sorry, but I can’t believe you are a regular WvW player. If commanders, guilds, and regular roamers know anything, they won’t give a kitten the speed to which something upgrades if they know it will upgrade eventually. They will not bunker; they will not give a crap about yaks and camps; yes, they will need supply, but they will take it form a camps, whatever may be left in a structure, or take it from enemy structures. Guild catas are only 25 supply. They will try to get fights or flip enemy objectives. That’s it.

Just to be fair, aren’t roamers typically the guys that spawn camp and pick off stragglers 5 to 1? That’ll still be in the game.

darkwarder.3645:

Just to be fair, aren’t roamers typically the guys that spawn camp and pick off stragglers 5 to 1? That’ll still be in the game.

lol?

That’s not roaming. Roamers do just as their name basically implies. They roam. They generally look for fights, maybe do a bit of havoc as well. Unless you are talking upper tiers (from everything I’m told and what I’ve seen being now in t3), roamers would typically be 1-5 looking for similar size, taking camps maybe even flipping towers, but all with the actual goal generally of getting evenish fights. Havoc would be more just for purely flipping camps/towers.

Of course none of that is really set in stone, each roamer is going to have a different play style, but sitting and spawn camping wouldn’t be roaming, and if 5 will kill a solo player, but run from an even fight, those aren’t really roamers either. Scavengers perhaps would be a fair term? Will 5 roamers likely go after 1 or 2? Why wouldn’t they? “red means dead” after all, but that’s essentially zerging down a player, and even if it’s only 5 it still presents no challenge. Often 3 of us used to roam a lot, and as a group we’d sometimes ignore a single player, but occasionally one may go for a quick little 1v1.

But if we were preventing reinforcements to a battle or running interference for a larger group? None would be spared then.

Everyone is forgetting that camps = points. Everyone is forgetting that to win a match you must win the PPT game.. Feel free to not roam and not capture enemy camps. If you want to just give the other server points, stop roaming.

darkwarder.3645:

Just to be fair, aren’t roamers typically the guys that spawn camp and pick off stragglers 5 to 1? That’ll still be in the game.

There’s no such thing as spawn camping. Every spawn has 3 exits.

briggah.7910:

Everyone is forgetting that camps = points. Everyone is forgetting that to win a match you must win the PPT game.. Feel free to not roam and not capture enemy camps. If you want to just give the other server points, stop roaming.

Yes, this is true, but it is more efficient for a server to focus on keeps and towers. A roaming group can get a good 10-15 ppt if they play right. But this argument is that the auto-upgrade takes a lot of strategy out of the game and gives less for roamers to do or know that they can have a significant impact on the match and the upgrades on larger structures are a big part of that.

Spurnshadow.3678:

Yes, this is true, but it is more efficient for a server to focus on keeps and towers. A roaming group can get a good 10-15 ppt if they play right.

I can flip all camps in our borderland within one tick – that is 30 PPT – I do that alone and have done it quite a lot of times. I held ~4 of 6 camps in EB for a few hours the other day – was trying to hinder them to upgrade SM to T3. That’s 30 and 20 PPT, just saying. More importantly is the supply cut though.

And I’m not sure how the new system will work out, maybe camps will still be as strategic- I just hope I will still be able to solo cap them.

Spurnshadow.3678:

There’s no such thing as spawn camping. Every spawn has 3 exits.

I’d agree in the borderlands, but the exits in EBG are easy to cover.

Jana.6831:

Spurnshadow.3678:

Yes, this is true, but it is more efficient for a server to focus on keeps and towers. A roaming group can get a good 10-15 ppt if they play right.

I can flip all camps in our borderland within one tick – that is 30 PPT – I do that alone and have done it quite a lot of times. I held ~4 of 6 camps in EB for a few hours the other day – was trying to hinder them to upgrade SM to T3. That’s 30 and 20 PPT, just saying. More importantly is the supply cut though.

And I’m not sure how the new system will work out, maybe camps will still be as strategic- I just hope I will still be able to solo cap them.

Well, you are obviously on a very low population server. Like dead. There’s no way that would ever happen on a tier 1, tier 2, maybe 3, but now sure about 3. So, it really isn’t valid as that is where the majority of WvW players are. Sorry to marginalize you.

darkwarder.3645:

Spurnshadow.3678:

There’s no such thing as spawn camping. Every spawn has 3 exits.

I’d agree in the borderlands, but the exits in EBG are easy to cover.

Uh, no.

In case you didn’t know, here’s a map with the exits with white circles. If you think 5 people can cover that, let alone a whole server, you high.

Spurnshadow.3678:

darkwarder.3645:

Spurnshadow.3678:

There’s no such thing as spawn camping. Every spawn has 3 exits.

I’d agree in the borderlands, but the exits in EBG are easy to cover.

Uh, no.

In case you didn’t know, here’s a map with the exits with white circles. If you think 5 people can cover that, let alone a whole server, you high.

LOL
Hate to burst your bubble then, but spawn camping has been done before, to great effect. Some servers in the past have set up ballis and ac’s near exits, and sat waiting for anyone to poke their nose beyond the Invuln. Yes, all exits. To break that would take amassing a zerg and rushing a single side that they might not expect. Problem though, they’d just leave some to cut off reinforcements eventually dwindling the zerg to nothing and repeat the process all over again.

Does it take a lot to accomplish it? Sure it does, but it has indeed happened, and can be done again. Just last year I saw it done in EB for quite a while (ironically by some I’d now be allied with >.>). Unfortunately people didn’t listen and kept giving them bags. I’d occasionally go out, down one of those trying to camp, and return to spawn before they ganged up on me. Got boring though, which fortunately it eventually got boring for them. That is about the only saving grace, is that ‘usually’ they won’t sit there for hours camping each exit because it gets boring. But it has been done.

Spurnshadow.3678:

Well, you are obviously on a very low population server. Like dead. There’s no way that would ever happen on a tier 1, tier 2, maybe 3, but now sure about 3. So, it really isn’t valid as that is where the majority of WvW players are. Sorry to marginalize you.

Don’t know, have been to 4 servers and did it on all of them – mostly during night time. I can flip quite a few camps no matter the time and no matter how many people are around as most people follow the commander.
And I’m currently tier 4, fighting against a T3 server.

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

Spurnshadow.3678:

darkwarder.3645:

Spurnshadow.3678:

There’s no such thing as spawn camping. Every spawn has 3 exits.

I’d agree in the borderlands, but the exits in EBG are easy to cover.

Uh, no.

In case you didn’t know, here’s a map with the exits with white circles. If you think 5 people can cover that, let alone a whole server, you high.

LOL
Hate to burst your bubble then, but spawn camping has been done before, to great effect. Some servers in the past have set up ballis and ac’s near exits, and sat waiting for anyone to poke their nose beyond the Invuln. Yes, all exits. To break that would take amassing a zerg and rushing a single side that they might not expect. Problem though, they’d just leave some to cut off reinforcements eventually dwindling the zerg to nothing and repeat the process all over again.

Does it take a lot to accomplish it? Sure it does, but it has indeed happened, and can be done again. Just last year I saw it done in EB for quite a while (ironically by some I’d now be allied with >.>). Unfortunately people didn’t listen and kept giving them bags. I’d occasionally go out, down one of those trying to camp, and return to spawn before they ganged up on me. Got boring though, which fortunately it eventually got boring for them. That is about the only saving grace, is that ‘usually’ they won’t sit there for hours camping each exit because it gets boring. But it has been done.

I’ve been on BG since launch. I’ve never seen this happen. I’ve seen them set up siege at the main exit, but not all 3. I think you’re just being argumentative, specifically with me, as you’ve taken a dissenting viewpoint to many of my posts.

Jana.6831:

Spurnshadow.3678:

Well, you are obviously on a very low population server. Like dead. There’s no way that would ever happen on a tier 1, tier 2, maybe 3, but now sure about 3. So, it really isn’t valid as that is where the majority of WvW players are. Sorry to marginalize you.

Don’t know, have been to 4 servers and did it on all of them – mostly during night time. I can flip quite a few camps no matter the time and no matter how many people are around as most people follow the commander.
And I’m currently tier 4, fighting against a T3 server.

I was going to let it slide, but now I’m just calling you a flat out liar.

It takes 30 seconds alone for a camps bar to progress with 1 person standing in the circle. 6 camps is 3 minutes for that alone. It takes about 1 minute to kill everything in a camp if it isn’t upgraded. that’s 6 minutes. That leaves 6 minutes left to travel which is impossible to do. But lets just say by some form of hacking, you were, you’re also telling me that you would not run into one other person or group along the way to impede your progress and that not one other person would flip a camp back before tick. Bull pucky.

Spurnshadow.3678:

I was going to let it slide, but now I’m just calling you a flat out liar.

It takes 30 seconds alone for a camps bar to progress with 1 person standing in the circle. 6 camps is 3 minutes for that alone. It takes about 1 minute to kill everything in a camp if it isn’t upgraded. that’s 6 minutes. That leaves 6 minutes left to travel which is impossible to do. But lets just say by some form of hacking, you were, you’re also telling me that you would not run into one other person or group along the way to impede your progress and that not one other person would flip a camp back before tick. Bull pucky.

You sound kind of sour.
6 camps, it’s 70 sec for each for me, from start to finish -I need ~40 sec from citadel waypoint to the upper 3 camps. a tick is 15 mins, so it’s 7 mins pure camp capping, 3*40 s = 2 mins to get to the 3 upper camps and I have 6 mins left to get to the three south camps. Rethink calling people a liar?
And yeah, it is possible that people flip a few camps back, that was why I said I held ~4 of 6 camps for a few hours as 2 were usually flipped back but I rotated between all 6 of them. I can however still flip all camps in our BL within one tick.

Spurnshadow.3678:

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

Spurnshadow.3678:

darkwarder.3645:

Spurnshadow.3678:

There’s no such thing as spawn camping. Every spawn has 3 exits.

I’d agree in the borderlands, but the exits in EBG are easy to cover.

Uh, no.

In case you didn’t know, here’s a map with the exits with white circles. If you think 5 people can cover that, let alone a whole server, you high.

LOL
Hate to burst your bubble then, but spawn camping has been done before, to great effect. Some servers in the past have set up ballis and ac’s near exits, and sat waiting for anyone to poke their nose beyond the Invuln. Yes, all exits. To break that would take amassing a zerg and rushing a single side that they might not expect. Problem though, they’d just leave some to cut off reinforcements eventually dwindling the zerg to nothing and repeat the process all over again.

Does it take a lot to accomplish it? Sure it does, but it has indeed happened, and can be done again. Just last year I saw it done in EB for quite a while (ironically by some I’d now be allied with >.>). Unfortunately people didn’t listen and kept giving them bags. I’d occasionally go out, down one of those trying to camp, and return to spawn before they ganged up on me. Got boring though, which fortunately it eventually got boring for them. That is about the only saving grace, is that ‘usually’ they won’t sit there for hours camping each exit because it gets boring. But it has been done.

I’ve been on BG since launch. I’ve never seen this happen. I’ve seen them set up siege at the main exit, but not all 3. I think you’re just being argumentative, specifically with me, as you’ve taken a dissenting viewpoint to many of my posts.

Well I’m sorry that you haven’t seen it, but it has indeed happened in the past to at least some servers. Last incident I know of personally was about a year ago, and didn’t last as long as some I know of that happened before then.

so what?we all have been spawn camped at some point. i take it with humor and go around. yes we got outblobbed but we still found a way. so what it happened a few times. its not like it happens every day and every night nonstop.

why do u think people transfer to t2 and t3? because they are bored of having nothing to do in wvw if they outman the other servers or if they are tired to be outmanned.

bringing a new map and systems in place that favors pve, ai and npc though is not the answer to the problem of lower tiers. these new systems actually hurt the other tiers that hold a lot of active wvw players way more than your servers. adding pve elements, jumping puzzles, automated upgrades pve mobs and stronger ai and ai traps is not the solution to the issues lower tiers have.
u think its splitting blobs up? no the opposite. we got less waypoints and suuch a horrible complex map that if u die u wouldnt want to go back to your group but are forced to wait till they die so u can play again. so its better running with the whole mapblob so they can rez u. thats why i hate eotm because u cant go anywhere alone! unless u are a thief. where is the fun in that?
u will see much bigger zergs wiht this pve circus map! also pve karma farmaers will join in and enjoy the mindless brain dead pve boss killing zerg and the stupid jumping puzzles and stupid ai traps.