Guild Wars 2

Hi,

How can a zerg counter x4 Ele’s, I know the 4 Ele’s used a choke point but shouldn’t a zerg be able to win?

melee them. especially staff eles.

Rush them, use stealth, daze them to prevent them from utilizing their million skills, crowd control. This was a good example of what not to do vs an organized group. A sensible warrior would’ve just kept killshotting them from within the masses.

the zerg in the video is terribad.. all they had to do was just walk up to them and press 11111. however, they failed to do so because they didn’t want to risk the 0.1% chance of having a repair bill.

short answer: Bum rush them.

but this is one of the best practiced and skilled group versus one of the worst zergs I’ve ever seen. Those four players could have been any class and still wiped that zerg.

Throw down a fast ballista, or superior arrow cart if you’re afraid of getting a repair bill if your so kitten scared of getting in there.

Any size zerg on a higher tier server should just roll straight over them without even slowing down- it’s only when you get a lot of solo built pve ‘rs with no useful group skills (and not on the server ts) that this sort of thing can happen. If your zerg isn’t covered in boons and heals then people aren’t doing their jobs properly.

I remember holding off the entire VS zerg with one bally and a cart and 4 of us at Danelon as it seemed the zerg was convinced there was more of us hiding just around the corner, right up until our zerg came around from behind them and trapped them nicely between us and them.

Ele aoe is kitten weak and doesn’t move, so even walking through meteor shower you get hit maybe twice and that’s only if your number comes up with the 5 man hit restriction on aoe’s.

As a full time ele I would like to say grow some stones! I use choke points all the time, unless we have a large amount of numbers behind us approach like normal combat. Despite what the dev’s think aoe damage is not that powerful. I stand on walls all the time as other ele’s and ranger barrage me. You have a whole tool box full of counters for aoe’s other then stepping to the side 5 feet. Thieves can stealth then melee down one at a time. Mesmer a send in clones or use the great bubble. Guardians just stomp in and smash rangers pets, bows. I agree this is a bad Zerg 4 ele’s are dangerous but when just tossing aoe’s we are paper thin. Run in and stomp! Now you see 4 ele’s roaming with daggers then run, cause even a good Zerg is gonna lose numbers. But people have this misconception of thieves and D/D ele’s being unstoppable. We are not just learn how to counter and play. Also dev’s really an aoe nerf? Fix the broken classes first like ranger and Necro.

should buy a trait called “brain”

The answer to the thread title is of course: Don’t be a zerg – work together and coordinate.

The staff ele making the video has 14k heath. That means that he is a ultra squishy glass cannon. Not only that, he was running one defensive cantrip ability only and none of the survival tools a bunker ele would run. No stability, no active condition removal, no nothing to enhance his ability to stay alive… only damage (wave and blast lol)

One competent person could have killed him in a matter of seconds if they actually pushed into them. Even me running full survivability gear and no real dps to speak of could have pushed into him and killed him in a matter of second easily.

The ele making the video was geared wrong, traited wrong, slotted wrong, and didn’t even play overly effectively. Together they played fairly effectively, but that’s about it. The only problem in the video is that the mindless and uncordinated mini zerg in the vid apparently didnt have one competent player with them.

I also want to point out that this ele was glass cannon and still can’t dish out the crit values and damage other classes can. Take a look at the damage numbers he put out as full cannon… kind of funny considering some bunker specs in other classes hit that hard without sacrificng anything. lol

Oh I guess I should officially answer: Don’t need a zerg to counter class cannon staff eles, especially guys like this that dont run extra survival tools. I could probably down two of them myself before I even used a single CC ability or self heal.

Did someone actually post a thread on how to counter a staff ele? Really? Are you for real or are you just emo and want to see ele nerfed regardless of which build it is?

pew pew those mdfkas! just kidding, knockdowns and long distance interrupts are quite useful against eles

Please tell me you were in that zerg!

Art.9820:

pew pew those mdfkas! just kidding, knockdowns and long distance interrupts are quite useful against eles

Don’t even have to on glass staff eles. Just use a gap closer and destroy them. Light armored, no toughness, no health, and only one survival tool on that ele means he should get dropped by anyone in less than 5 seconds.

Heh I bet a single glass cannon thief that knew what he was doing could have killed all 4 himself.

1 gap closer, just 1, would have been enough to kill these people.
As soon as only 1 person gets in melee range they either die from his damage or stop the AoE to take that person down, allowing the ranged group to decimate them in the process.
I always just dives trough the lines of enemies and try to get as many people to focus me as possible and then dashing out or using CC / survivibility skills so that the rest of my group can just take down the enemies while half of them are distracted. It never fails, the lines are broken and you can all fight toe to toe, no more ranged poking and putting down AoE spells as far away as possible.

Well, as a Staff ele who Majors in Fire and Water and Masters in Arcane…..That was kitten bad. No really-I can’t stop laughing. If I were there, Id a dropped a meteor on them and watched them scatter. Then pick them off. two eles, a engi, and a ranger are not a deadly combo. In the least.

Anybody worth thier weight in marbles, and who has some kittens could have easily “Walked”. Ohh I do mean walked-and litterly pressed maybe 3 buttons and won. Even on my crappy damage ele, One lava font, or an eruption would have took them down.

Seriosly, I don’t even know if your serious. You must be jokeing-You gotta. That was one of the worst zergs ever combine that with a barely mediocre group. Yea no wonder they all died. Id say the zerg deserves to get kitten bunched in the nads-every one of them, for being so bad. No really-That was bad. It is unfathomable how absoluty bad that was.

covenn.7165:

bla bla I would have done better bla bla

frostflare.6390:

 
You must be jokeing-You gotta. That was one of the worst zergs ever combine that with a barely mediocre group. Yea no wonder they all died. Id say the zerg deserves to get kitten bunched in the nads-every one of them, for being so bad. No really-That was bad. It is unfathomable how absoluty bad that was.

You do know that two of those player are among the bets player in the game? They are forming one of the best sPvP team around.

I agree the zerg was bad.

But the Elem were prolly the best players you could find, and they used combo, called healing, called shot.

This is a proof of skill > zerg.

That’s how this game should be.

It’s a zerg… without a leader to coordinate they tend to avoid moving alone in fear that they’ll die while the zerg runs off to the next camp.

In this case, that indecision made they waste minutes while deciding whether to attack the eles or run away. Common sense in upper tiers is to just stream roll them since everyone has a gap closer. Only time this “doesn’t” happen is if it’s a stealthy zerg and a commander specifically calls for non-combat to avoid crossed swords.

In other words, bad zerg, bad OP, good play on part of the eles but not going to comment on their builds.

I think Anvil Rock is the sPvP server? All my sPvP friends transferred to Anvil Rock, at least. If I was on Anvil Rock, I would just be like super sad all the time goin “Why won’t the sPvP people help us?”.

When fighting with unfamiliar people it’s hard to gauge what they’re going to do. So when I’m with strangers I’m all like “Pfft, I’m not dyin for these fools, they can go first” but when I’m with 5 guildies and the leader says “We are charging those 20 guys over there” I’m like “IT’S A RACE TO THEIR FACES AND I AM GOING TO WIN”.

Yeah Anvil Rock is the “official” sPvP server for NA, and yeah our sPvP population don’t WvW much, or else we would be a lot better. :P

The elementalists in that video failed in the first 30 seconds.

If I were one of the attackers I would have done a /laugh after capping the supply camp and let them go running off. WvW is objective based.

The elementalists lost the objective.

They failed.

Slamz.5376:

The elementalists in that video failed in the first 30 seconds.

If I were one of the attackers I would have done a /laugh after capping the supply camp and let them go running off. WvW is objective based.

The elementalists lost the objective.

They failed.

There you have it, if you ever walk by an objective on the map and do not immediately cap it you have failed.

That’s more of a problem of upleveled and inexperienced players fighting a coordinated voip run team.

It’s not an issue of counter. If the zerg sent in 2-3 plate wearers RIGHT THROUGH the group and didn’t allow them to dodge back for heal/reset then it wouldn’t have been a problem, they would have been running.

Just coordination in the end.

Heh, this is why it’s important for ‘zergs’ to stay with their commanders, and for commanders to lead zergs THROUGH chokepoints to hit targets causing lots of damage (be it siege or a few squishy players).

Cleansing skills, like Healing Rain (Elementalist, Staff, Water 5) on the chokepoint would make it easier for the zerg to get through without CC’s keeping them all in place.

styx.7294:

There you have it, if you ever walk by an objective on the map and do not immediately cap it you have failed.

Well you certainly haven’t succeeded.

In this case, though, the objective was already owned by the elementalists. They were the defenders. The attackers took it.

They failed.

What happens after that is immaterial. They generated no team points and took no objectives. “Dirty crossroads fighting” may be fun but it doesn’t generate points.

Wow that video is sad,
and not realistic in the least bit.
It was a stroke of luck for those 4 guys that not one decent player chased them , AND everyone was stacking for easy kills.
Ive server jumped quite a bit, and not once have I seen such fail from a large group of people o-o

I gonna say it again there are so many different was to counter this it’s not funny. If two are the best Spvp players in the game Spvp must be a sad sad place to play.

With the AoE nerf coming up, which could be due to a knee-jerk response to this video, Elementalists will be nerfed as well. Zerg will become OP once more.

Perhaps; but if you read some of Jonathan’s most recent replies in these forums, he says they’re going to examine AoE on a weapon by weapon basis. They have no intention of making certain weapon combos worthless, rather, they want to create more incentive to use other weapons (for Elementalist, I imagine that means a buff to scepter).

Kaleden.9386:

Perhaps; but if you read some of Jonathan’s most recent replies in these forums, he says they’re going to examine AoE on a weapon by weapon basis. They have no intention of making certain weapon combos worthless, rather, they want to create more incentive to use other weapons (for Elementalist, I imagine that means a buff to scepter).

I would welcome a buff to scepter (focus would be nice too) in exchange, but I’ll believe it when I see it.

Kaleden.9386:

Heh, this is why it’s important for ‘zergs’ to stay with their commanders, and for commanders to lead zergs THROUGH chokepoints to hit targets causing lots of damage (be it siege or a few squishy players).

Cleansing skills, like Healing Rain (Elementalist, Staff, Water 5) on the chokepoint would make it easier for the zerg to get through without CC’s keeping them all in place.

Heck you don’t even need a commander to wipe 4 people.
I could’ve just rolled any of my classes and would’ve wiped them, without a second doubt.
My warrior? I would’ve used a sword leap into a hammer burst.
My elementalist? RTL into updraft or just static field
My engineer? Supply drop

The act that not even 1 person in their group did this is truly a sad and making Anet feel that AoE is overpowered because standing inside AoE field is supposedly “too strong”

If a group ever loses to another group that is 3 times smaller than it, its either because of one of 2 things.
1. Culling
2. Terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible players.

Anyone who players WvW often knows how easy it is to roll over 5 people when you have 20 allies backing you up.

Agreed. Many professions have gap closers and this was the perfect opportunity to do use them regardless of command status. Though, I have watched a few commanders push through chokepoints to attack siege (or whatever is laying waste to their members) and the zerg stays behind because they’re getting AoE’d … it gives me a good chuckle and a tear at the same time. Poor commander.

This isn’t the first numerically lopsided video they’ve posted, so I think the zerg quality at T6 is just that bad. They did have a commander in that video and they did have a few smart people jump in between the party, so I guess you guys are those smart people and the rest of the zerg is the indifferent crowd watching you die.

I guess this zerg didn’t watch 300 as much as those 4 guys do :P

Kardiamond.6952:

covenn.7165:

bla bla I would have done better bla bla

frostflare.6390:

 
You must be jokeing-You gotta. That was one of the worst zergs ever combine that with a barely mediocre group. Yea no wonder they all died. Id say the zerg deserves to get kitten bunched in the nads-every one of them, for being so bad. No really-That was bad. It is unfathomable how absoluty bad that was.

You do know that two of those player are among the bets player in the game? They are forming one of the best sPvP team around.

I agree the zerg was bad.

But the Elem were prolly the best players you could find, and they used combo, called healing, called shot.

This is a proof of skill > zerg.

That’s how this game should be.

Don’t know who they are and dont care.

I watched the video and how they played and they weren’t very good, fortunately that zerg was worse. Not only that the ele in the vid was geared horribly.

Easy to shout that from the sidelines

The reality is, with the gear he is running, the fact that he is using staff, and the fact that he only has mist form as a defensive outside of his fields means that he is free points in WvW to anyone who knows what they are doing.

Heck even a bunker d/d ele that hits like a wet noodle could drop that guy in that gear set in just a few seconds, has the gap closers to do so easily, and can disrupt the others at the same time.

Cempa.5619:

Hi,

How can a zerg counter x4 Ele’s, I know the 4 Ele’s used a choke point but shouldn’t a zerg be able to win?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-919RMwyfnk

Depends on your definition of “zerg”. To me it means a bunch or players lumped together who are typically under-geared and under leveled and who lack much skill on an individual basis. All of this plus little to no true “organization” in the blob.

If your definition is the same as mine, then most emphatically, NO. A small group of highly coordinated players should win vs a zerg every time.

Using tactics such as:

Extending – causing players to chase such that the faster, more mobile players outrun their support and are, consequently, much easier to kill

Choke Points – commonly used by coordinated AoE specialized parties to lump the zerg into as tight a formation as possible.

Target Assisting – parties assign a “Main Assists” who is responsible for calling out targets that the rest all focus on with him, ensuring the target dies

These are just a few tactics that a small coordianted group is able to use to wipe a zerg. Zergs, on the other hand are quite simply are not capable of using these. (With one exception maybe being choke points, but organizing any zerg to use any of these is like herding cats).

saiyr.3071:

Easy to shout that from the sidelines

Perhaps… in game I wouldn’t even notice a glass cannon ele like that because I would drop him in a couple of seconds and move on to another target.

The reality is that the battle was probably insanely fun for them to fight with such odds and it doesn’t matter how good or bad they are. And that you’re raining on their parade.

You can extend in this game against disorganized masses decently, but it pales to the extension you used to be able to do in certain games with actual meaningful CC.

covenn.7165:

You can extend in this game against disorganized masses decently, but it pales to the extension you used to be able to do in certain games with actual meaningful CC.

If DAoC is your reference here….then, yeah IKR? The weakness of CC in this game is almost appalling.

saiyr.3071:

The reality is that the battle was probably insanely fun for them to fight with such odds and it doesn’t matter how good or bad they are. And that you’re raining on their parade.

I would say that a person shouldn’t make videos if they didn’t want comments about it.

I was referring to DAoC yes. Meaningful CC let you both actively and passively extend against vastly superior numbers.

I prefer real CC as long as they have hard counters, but games these days have gone too care bear to appeal to the WoW crowd.

covenn.7165:

saiyr.3071:

The reality is that the battle was probably insanely fun for them to fight with such odds and it doesn’t matter how good or bad they are. And that you’re raining on their parade.

I would say that a person shouldn’t make videos if they didn’t want comments about it.

I forgot that making videos was a license to be tactless and disrespectful.

You can only kill glass cannon elementalists if you can hit them. With vigor, endurance regen food, and all their CC, a smart staff elementalist can be very difficult to catch, even without cantrips. Of course, once you do, it’s lights out.

In all honesty, 2 good players could have killed that group of 3 ele’s, 1 thief. (not 4, look at the icons)

So if you are wondering what a zerg needs to do? Well they need to know how to play and not be cowards that solely depend on numbers in order to defeat Quaggans.

Was an interesting video for sure, was fun to watch. Yes, the zerg was bad and just 2-3 smart players getting behind them would have screwed that entire fight. As for the AoE damage, it does need to be toned down a bit. Single target damage should always be higher than AoE, but if Elementalists want to give up having arguably the best support/utility for a group then they can keep the damage. It should be one or the other, and right now Ele’s have a bit too much of both. Being very squishy does make up for a majority of it and in my mind the changes would be very minimal to staff, so please don’t take that as they should be nerfed into the ground. I do however feel that D/D is too good right now and should be toned a bit. I’m fine with the AoE damage, I’m fine with the mobility, and I’m even fine with the utility and how hard they can be to kill. I’m just not fine with them having all of that at the same time.